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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- So much crap talked about the IMS. Let’s talk about it! Should we believe the people who talk about the scale of the problem when they are also the ones selling us the remedy? Who is making money out of the IMS situation? How often does it happen? Should it put you off the 996 model of Porsche 911? Is this a lawyer / attorney driven issue? Was anyone successful in suing Porsche? I will help you get this into perspective by explaining all of this and more!
It didn’t stop me buying my WONDERFUL Porsche 911 996! What a superb car! There is PLENTY more to the Porsche 996 911 than this issue, believe me!
You can download all my Porsche model guides at www.jayreadyoutube.com so go and take a look there, OK?
All written, researched and edited by me. You can download all my Porsche model guides at www.jayreadyoutube.com so go and take a look there, OK?
Why not follow me on Instagram too? I am a CAR guy first and I get around so take a look at the reels and pictures that I take because you might like them! Also you get news on my own Porsche, my MG and other life events there before TH-cam! Look for jayreadyoutube on Insta now!
Comment below please. All views welcome!
Link to PCA Oregon Region technical bulletin: www.oregonpca....
#IMSbearing #Porsche996
Light the blue touch paper and…
I am a qualified mechanic/engine designer. I went through this some years ago and investigated the matter because I had a 2003 C4S. It's true the problem is quite complex on the face of it because there does not seem to be a single cause for the failures as you state. Here's my analysis. First of all the bearing is relatively small and looks inadequate for the job. It's not. After a few failures, Porsche engineers checked and rechecked the loadings. Everything was ok here. All of the different size bearings they fitted are well capable for loadings. In fact, it was noted quite early on the engines that got thrashed around tracks appeared not to fail.
Considering all of the factors and without writing an essay now, the main suspicion falls on the fact that the bearing has its own built-in seal and is only designed to hold the grease in the bearing. In fact, these bearings only require a tiny amount to be on the surfaces. The bulk is pushed to the sides. On outside applications, this lasts well but here the bearing is running in hot oil at around 100c. The hot oil can get past these seals quite easily and enter the bearing and escape to the other side which is a hollow tube. There it will stay regardless of oil changes. Over time and heat cycles, the oil will break down, loses its properties, and become sludge. This becomes a very sub-nominal situation for the bearing and will promote failure. Poor servicing schedules will surely exacerbate this.
Generally, I don't think that you need to worry about IMS bearings. It's really not a big problem. It's just like if a rod, or piston lets go. Your engine gets trashed but you can't live in fear of this. I saw that a Porsche lawyer stated that statistically, a 996 owner had more chance of developing cancer and dying of it whilst they owned the car than having an IMS bearing fail. It makes you think.
My advice is to change your oil regularly. Even though synthetic oil can do 12000 miles plus easily, 6000 or less is far better. If you're doing any work in the area swap out the bearing for a new one. It's an easy job. The engineering solutions that are offered are expensive, and probably do help but are unnecessary.
Here's what I did. As I had the engine out I swapped out the old bearing which was actually in perfect condition after 56k. I replaced it with a ceramic hybrid bearing with the seals removed. The load ratings were actually slightly lower but the hybrid bearing is more resilient to contamination and robust There is an abundance of oil in this area and it does not require extra lubrication by any means. The hybrid is more than 10x the price of a standard bearing. I paid about £100 for it. The car by the way is still running well 30k later.
As a side note, for those interested in preserving their engines I have two top tips. Revving up an engine in neutral and not under load is a horrendously destructive thing to do. Don't do it. Most supercar manufacturers now fit a soft limiter to stop this.
Make sure the engine is up to operating temperature before you make any demands on it. And not just the water temp. I can take another 10 miles plus for the oil to get up to temperature. Be aware.
What an excellent post! THANK YOU!
Thanks for the info, well written and perfectly readable. Any other info on the 996 m96 engine I should know about?
I agree an excellent post very informative.
Damn, beat me to it, I was about to say the exact same thing:(
No, that was great, a voice of reason from someone knows amongst all the "wannabees" armchair engineers is reassuring to hear
Thanks for some great insight
Great Advice on IMS Debacle ☘️
'The Car Wizard' makes it simple to find out if you should be thinking about replacing the IMS Bearing.
Simply remove the oil filer cap while the car is up in the air, and then inspect it to see if metallic shavings
are in the rows of the filter element. Also, drain the oil still in the filter very slowly onto the side of a
container in order to see if any metallic elements are pouring out. If nothing is detected in the bottom of
the container, there is no immediate worry about engine failure due to the IMS. If the car is old and the IMS
has never been replaced, you can decide if it pays for you to have peace of mind by replacing it. If you decide
to do it, inspect the clutch when you've finished the dismantling that allows you to reach the bearing and
decide if the clutch should be replaced at the same time.
I am a factory trained Porsche tech, the only failures I see are overrev issues either on track cars or those that choose 1 gear over third, check those over rev report they are important.
How bad are 650 overrevs in range 2? Sadly 996 only has the 2 ranges so hard to tell how severe they were. Driven the car for a year and about 5k km without issues
Ah you might be right.
Nothing good comes from a money shift !
Totally agree, mine has the original bearing 94k miles. I enquired at the specialist that service mine they were honest they have done hundreds of IMS swaps and none of the ones removed were bad. There advice regular services and drive the car they need to be used and enjoyed. Also there are no stats on how many third party bearings go bad.
Exactly!
Nice and level-headed approach. You are so right that life is too short to worry about these things constantly.
Thanks!
I'm the third owner happy owner of a '99 Fly yellow, black interior 911 Carerra with one of the early dual-row IMS bearings. 71K miles on the clock. Oil changed every 5-thousand miles. California car. Never a problem. Always been garaged since new. I believe the key has been stated here a few times, but I'll say it again. Do the scheduled maintenance! My mechanic always checks the used oil filter and drain pan for metallic particles. If anything shows up, we'll change out the bearing. In the meantime, I'll enjoy driving this magnificent piece of automotive joy. 😀
Only problem with your approach is that if there’s metal in the oil it may be too late to avert engine damage. Still, having a ‘99 does make things a lot less risky.
A very pragmatic video, as I myself have a '98 986 and have read, listened to and viewed all the waffle on IMS bearings for some time. I think a great many folks have their own agendas to work on this, and a great many folks have made a great amount of money, by capitalising on many people's fears. Always important to get perspective on such matters and think the failure rate speaks volumes as, certainly for the dual bearing, this is extremely low, and even lower when I consulted a Porsche forum. My car's only done 60k miles and in almost perfect condition, and certainly wont be doing anything to the IMS until I finally need a new clutch, and then I'll probably do it to prolong the life of the car even more. Always best to ignore the trolls and tyre kickers looking to stumble on the sucker that succumbs to the fear line and diatribe! Keep making the vids - great to watch and enjoy, and certainly provide a practical viewpoint!
Thank you!
My daughters 2000 986S has over 80k miles and haven't seen anything to indicate the ims is having trouble 😐
We inspect the oil when changing but have found no metal and are therefore not concerned.
The problem was exacerbated by the kind of people that remember one fact about something so they can sound like an expert. " A Boxster? Ahem, well they are garbage because of that IMS Bearing. Engine's gonna grenade". Same as the "Merlot? Crappy wine, I only drink Cab." Just like the kid above who had to comment about the missed shifts. "Oh the Money Shift". Probably never been on a track in his life.
Nice to see someone who owns one of these cars that isn’t a nervous Nellie about it. I’ve had my 987.1 S, that’s on the recall list, since 2006. Still have the original IMS bearing. ( OK, I don’t like to talk about it since it’s bad juju but…) you are spot on about the conflicts of interest many of commentators have. Yes, Porsche settled the lawsuit pretty much after they knew what the actual claims would be be cause of the ten year limitation. Then, obviously, there is the Porsche Repair Industrial Complex( PRICs) who are on the forums fear mongering. For me, I’m comfortable believing that some cars have a problem with runout and the tolerances weren’t stringent enough that some cars have a problem and some cars don’t. Yes, replacing it with a solid oil fed will most likely solve the issue but overall, those that are going to have problems will have them early on and those that last will probably never have a problem. My gut tells me most of the bearings that get changed would never have had a problem anyway. And there are bearings that have been changed and still suffered an issue but the promoters of the fixes like to say the car wasn’t properly vetted for the change. I.e. if your car will never have a problem then change it but if your car has a potential problem, it’s going to be an issue with or without the change. Nice way to make money. Sell people stuff they don’t need. Then again the replacement bearing is a maintenance item…so have fun changing that every five years or so.
This is my 2 cents and I’m still on my original bearing after over 17 years. YMMV. Every car I’ve ever owned has had a group of people on some forum complaining my car is just a catastrophic failure waiting to happen. Life is too short to lose sleep over this. No plans to sell my car but if I ever do, I guess I’ll have to put something like: “ Car has original IMS bearing. If you have a problem with this don’t answer this ad.”
Hahaha! AGREED!
Another nice video Jay, and a pragmatic approach to what is, as you mentioned an overblown subject. The best thing for preventative maintenance to any engine is, not rev the nuts off it when cold, regular oil changes with good quality oil of the correct viscosity and avoid prolonged periods of very short trips. I have a 1999 carrera 2 manual, it's an absolute pleasure to drive. It's had an exchange Porsche engine 34000 miles ago by the previous owner, with the larger intermediate shaft and ceramic bearing which are supposed to be one of the better solutions. It doesn't use any oil between changes and no smoke on start up. These are bargain performance machines currently and I can see prices going up when all the bullsh*t is put to rest.
Probably after I have sold mine!
I recently bought a nice 996.2 tip like yours, did 3k miles in a year and got my money back . A happy treat. I had the merc gearbox serviced and all was well . They had a quick look at the back of the engine
Niiiice!
My friend owns a (since new) 2003 996 c2 with 195000 km and has not changed the IMS.
Well, the issue is not the non-failing cars, but the failing ones. Right?
@@johan.mp4 Well, the issue is not other people's cars, but your car. Right? LOL
@@boyracer3477 hehe also true. But not mine, I've changed RMS and IMS.
I have a 2001 Porsche 996 C2 Cabriolet. I have the original bearing and I change my own oil and inspect a lot. I have no fear of it. I think a lot of money has been made for a very small percentage or REAL failures.
YUP!
I totally agree I hav an 05 boxster like new has been serviced regular oil change every 5000 don't slam gears always check oil filter its fine its more of how there maintained
Thank you Jay. An excellent overview of this IMS bearing "problem"
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think your assessment of the legal issue is spot on. The attorneys had motivation to exaggerate the number of cars affected. So the issue was blown out of proportion in a very public space. That black eye persists still today.
Great video as always! I’m looking at a 2003 today with 50k miles, a stack of service records and PCA owner. Your comment about risk assessment being a measure of probability and severity is spot on!
Good luck! That sounds perfect! Thank a lot.
Drove the car today, well sorted with a 2” binder book of service records and summary spreadsheet. The original and last owner proactively replaced the IMS bearing! He bought the car when he was 50 yrs old and now his almost 70-year old back prevents him from driving a manual tranny.
Drive the car hard. Keep the RPMs up. Change the oil regularly (Every 3K miles or once a year for me). Replace or even upgrade the IMS bearing and RMS when you need a new clutch. I'm no expert but that sums up all of the experts and the experience of people since the problem came up. One new thing I read recently was that when IMS bearings were grenading the motors, no one thought to do an autopsy on the motors to see what cause what to fail. There was no money to be made on a bunch of chunks of metal that couldn't be fixed. They just assumed it was the bearing and that added to the fear. The problem isn't as bad as people claimed.
I'm right in the middle of a rebuild at present due to my 2000 996 Manual CAB IMS failure. Fortunately the only damage is the shaft not the whole engine.
Bought the car Feb'21 from a dealer not the previous owner. He did however complete and "IMS Bearing Retrofit" Jun'20 so after purchasing and learning about this I was very happy.
Maintenance history was excellent and I continued to enjoy the car giving it yearly (10k Kms) oil change etc. But last oil change in Feb'22, 18,000kms since the IMS retrofit the dual row bearing destroyed itself!
There you have it and now I'm totally buried on what to do and back doing the TH-cam IMS education swing!
Have been in touch with Hartech UK and they have a remanufactured modified shaft that fits the larger Porsche bearing fitted '02 onwards. It is about US$800 including shipping to Perth, WA BUT then I see this on TH-cam by PCA th-cam.com/video/rPro7qPpYvY/w-d-xo.html and at 18:43 mins the Hartech looks like the 13mm 6204 bearing they say to avoid!!
HELP!!!
I'm now seriously considering a new shaft and the LN Permanent solution at over US$2500!!
Even though Hartech tell me the larger '06 Porsche bearing is good!
The car cost me AU$56k and before the IMS failure I had spent AU$20k on it replacing suspension arms and reupholstering the leather seats etc.
Your video has prompted me to rethink the LN IMS Permanent solution even though it is way more expensive. Because when and if I come to sell the car I might end up in the same boat as yourself with a perfectly good 996 well looked after but still having a bearing that could (???) fail hence affecting the resale value.
Cheers Chris, Perth WA
I had a 99. I bought it with 74K miles. I figured if it was one of the unlucky 8% it would had blown up many miles ago. I sold it 10 years later with 120K on the clock. Never replaced the IMS or RMS...
You weee actually in the ‘less than 1%’ bracket!
I'm running on 110k miles and just going to risk it. Fresh oil every 5k miles according to service/receipts.
I just bought an ‘01 996 coupe with Tiptronic. I’ve had two 996s already and both had dual row bearings. But with this car I knew I had a potentially prime candidate for an IMS failure. The prior two owners only drove 41,000 miles in 24 years, and in the last ten years it was garage kept and driven around 300 miles per year. Prime candidate for a failure. So I’m having the IMS/RMS/Water Pump/air oil separator all replaced this week, and the mechanic is scoping all six cylinders for scoring at no extra cost. This investment will allow me to enjoy the hell put of the car, rev it high, push it hard, and basically drive it like it wants to be driven without worrying that the previous 24 years of pampering and low rpm driving left it ill-prepared for another ten years of truer Porsche driving.
The thing to remember if you’re considering buying a 996 is that IMS failure is not the only thing to think about. There are also the other four things I listed above and if you take care of these things not only are your protecting your investment, but you’re also going to make it a lot easier to sell the car for decent money if and when the time comes.
Just bought a 2001 C4 with 38k on it, perfect condition but I'm still going to have the IMS bearing done. Call it peace of mind. I love the styling & the performance
of the car, but I have to admit, I still really love my old 1977 911S😁
Now you have a pretty perfect combo though! The best of both worlds!
having the ims done as we speak on my 2004 997 c2 tip 90000miles had the car a year,great service history motor runs like a sewing machine,this issue has been on my mind since the beginning and spoiled the enjoyment of ownership at the thought of a blown motor writing off the car ! so for piece of mind its being done,when and if the time comes to sell it this work will warrant a quick sale at the best price...
My 1999 996 (so dual row) has about 110k miles on its original bearing. No issues. I think, as you said, it really is dependent on how well the car is serviced. Does the oil get changed? Are the radiators cleaned so the car isn't running too hot? Does the car sit for months without being started and warmed up properly? Any of those things will contribute to failure. A well-kept car should have no failures stemming from those reasons. Obviously some failed at low mileage, and those were the defective ones, but most 996s at this point that had defective bearings have likely already failed. At this point, any drive, well-kept car with a service history is likely safe. For reference, the Porsche court case found a 5% failure rate for the single row bearings, and a less than 1% failure rate for the dual row bearings.
Other common things people love to bring up with the M96 are the rear main seal (RMS) and air-oil separator (AOS). I don't view these as real problems for most people either. For the RMS, you just do that whenever you're doing the clutch. Its a seal. Its going to fail, like any seal, eventually. Nothing made of rubber in an engine that heats up and cools down will last forever. Expect that with any car. There are plenty of engines with worse-placed seals, and there's no way around having a rear main seal on any engine. As for the AOS, if you're not tracking the car, don't worry about it. Replace it whenever you have the car apart enough to get at it if it bothers you. Again, rubber bellows are going to wear. No way around that. Porsche has made a Motorsport AOS for you people looking to track your car, and there's a 3rd party UAOS of a similar design.
Honestly I would be more worried about bore scoring with these M96 and M97 engines. Alusil blocks are their greatest weakness, not IMS, RMS, or AOS. Also the "integrated dry sump" is really not great for anyone looking to track these cars. Bottom line is, if you have the money, and really worry about all of this stuff, get a GT3 or a Turbo and forget about it. Personally, my 1999 996 has been fine. Its well-maintained, I make sure it wont ever suffer any oiling or cooling issues by keeping up on service, and fully expect my engine to go another 100k-ish miles before needing a rebuild. At that point, yeah, maybe I'll think about swapping a Mezger in, but for the foreseeable future I'm just going to enjoy driving the car, and have the peace of mind that comes from servicing the car properly.
Many 996’s need a cutch replacement at around 50K. If you are doing a cutch, do an IMS bearing. My 1999 needed a clutch at about that mileage, did a IMS bearing at that service. Nothing wrong with the original double row bearing.. enjoy the car, forget te
Agreed!
Thanks for a clear unpacking of the issue, along with Exactly who was covered in Eisen vs. Porsche: 2001 - 2005 for only the first 10 years of life.
My pleasure!
Jay, your summary is very accurate and fair. The right buyer for your 996 is out there. They will have researched Porsche 911 ownership and will be willing to continue to invest in a well maintained example of the car. They will understand that the 996 variant offers a gateway into ownership of a 911 at a ridiculously affordable price when compared to earlier air cooled cars and later 991 models. Major problems with 911’s are really rare. I’ve been around Porsche owners for about eight years now. In all of that time I have not been aware of anyone who has directly suffered an IMS failure. There has been plenty of talk about the potential for problems and the preventative measures which have been taken or are planned, but no actual failure. Even if there were one or two, the fault would still be less common than, for instance, air cooled engine rebuilds.
Cheers Stuart!
To anyone thinking about buying a 996, I’m on my third one and I offer this perspective….
1. Buy a 1999 996 and enjoy the peace of mind of having a dual row IMS.
2. If you decide to buy a garage queen low mileage example, they are in fact the most likely to suffer catastrophic failure because they haven’t been actively and consistently driven throughout the past 20+ years.
3. If the IMS has been replaced with a reputable bearing like LN Engineering, you do in fact have the peace of mind knowing that these replacement bearings have very little chance of ever failing IF they were properly installed. The oil fed IMS Solution is believed to be overkill by several Porsche specialists who I’ve consulted with. These same specialists have told me that they have yet to see an LN Engineering bearing fail.
2 points Jay. 1, I believe The Solution uses a Bush and not a Bearing, so it's basically just a chunk of metal rather than a bearing. It's a part of the puzzle on why the solution is a permanent fix. The oil fed line is just part of it.
2, I believe those that say a car that sits is more likely to have issues has nothing to do with oil change intervals, but the fact a car that sits will have rubber that wears and cracks. The bearing seals can deteriorate (well, they pretty much do in all fails bearings) which causes the lubrication to leak, which then leads to the little ball bearing breaking apart, which then circulate through the engine. This is what people look for in the filter during oil changes. A car that is driven will lubricate those seals and they are less likely to break down. I don't believe there are any factual numbers to support whether a low mileage car is more susceptible, but I believe this is the theory behind people who believe a low mileage car is more prone to IMSB failures
Ah you might be right.
You make a lot of sense. I wonder if the base-rate issue confuses a lot of people. Eight percent sounds scary, but it also means 92% that no problem exists. I just purchased a 2003 Carrera manual with scant records for the past several years, but the car looks good and the engine seems fine. I guess I'll do the IMS when I need a clutch.
Good thinking! Oh and CONGRATULATIONS! ❤️
But there is no proof that those 8% were IMS bearing failures or any one of the many things that can let go in an engine. When I finally read that not long ago, I quit worrying about it and enjoyed my 986 much more. I'll replace it with the clutch (and RMS). Everything comes out anyway.
My OCT '98 built 996 Gen 1 as a "99 996 Gen 1 came w/ the dual row IMS. Should never be a problem. However, to be on the the safe side, installed a LN Ceramic dual row IMS at 50K to be on the clock. I won't have to ever worry about an IMS for the next 100K miles. Probably never to worry. I'm showing 57K on the clock now.
People also forget it’s not an expensive part to replace if you wish. There are also plenty of ceramic bearings and plenty of the non oil fed replacements out there.
I agree with 92% of what you said. But if the bearing goes, and no one can guarantee that it won't, the repair will cost more than the value of your car. There's the problem. Oh--and I did the LN bearing on my 03
I agree with you, Ron! As I said in the video, it’s a combination of frequency and severity. On the frequency side, it’s unlikely to happen but if it does happen, it is catastrophic.
To be honest, if a timing belt snaps on most cars, your in the same boat.
@@LetsDIYIt you are correct! Every car has its own special issue. If you google any model car for typical issues you wont drive anything!
I'm doing my bearing now, with rms and new clutch and flywheel at 126k. pelican kit so same type bearing. not really worried and was glad to see the original bearing was is great shape.
2 boxsters and 4 911'a later I have never had one that had any issues with the IMS. Everything else went wrong but I won't have a word said against the venerable IMS
As a mechanic and qualified BMW motorcycle tech and aircraft Engineer, I don't know. I doubt its a big issue as some suggest but all bearings can fail and often do. Before getting my 01 986 I was looking at the SLK350 but hardly ever hear of there cam drive sprocket that shears which is not a good thing and known. Here in NZ, the IMS is a $2.5k replacement and I think worth doing. My BMW has far bigger expenditure items but once done, then done. if not sure then do it and of course look after the car whilst in your ownership like any other.
Good video! I replaced the clutch at 80k, just a few weeks ago, and yes I replaced the ims bearing with an aftermarket upgrade from EPS… great bearing , but….. the original in the car… was pristine … absolutely perfect. It’s a nice paperweight on my desk. That being said … the replacement is a roller bearing and for the money it’s a very strong replacement. .. now I don’t have to worry .. still.. I didn’t need replacing .. so I agree … the issue is overblown
I owned a 2001 996 that I sold with 109K. I did not replace the IMS bearing, but did change the oil every 5K. My mechanic advised me not to spend the money on the IMS fix. I had to replace the clutch at 87k and the water pump at 92k. Other than that it was a great reliable car.
I have a similar view on the IMS, yes there is a risk, but I don’t think it’s as great as all the hype. I don’t envy you selling your 996, I sold a 05 997 a few years ago and my favourite line was if you’re worried about IMS, RMS, bore scoring then you’re buying the wrong car! I now jointly own a 04 996 and don’t worry about the IMS.
Exactly!
Keep in mind that the stats on IMS failures were at the time of the lawsuit. If you imagine that the bearing wears more over time, then the percent of failures will go up with miles.
Saying if it hasn't blown up by now, it probably won't is like saying if I haven't died by now, I probably won't.
Only if you assume that death, in this metaphor, is inevitable or that your liver will give out before the rest of you does. In my case, that’s more likely than not! Does the bearing wear out faster than the remainder of the car? Suspect not.
My 05 has been bulletproof..no ims done..ive had it since 08 and ill always keep it being my first entry into Porsche
I agree with this gentleman..! If it's a vehicle that has had 15k oil changes, and they take it every week to the track, then I feel these are the ones that have a much higher percentage of failure. But under normal maintenance and driving conditions, I think this bearing can last a fair amount of time and mileage.
Totally get it. I sold my Dad's 997.1 on behalf, didn't get much IMS grumbling thankfully, but did have one guy come, claim the two or three stonechips on the front therefore meant the ENTIRE CAR needed a respray, and wanted $10k NZD off the price.
My deepest empathy here. There are some total clowns! The guy that offered my $6k for my car did it with a totally straight face! As if he thought there was actually a reasonable chance that his offer might be accepted! Moron!
I use an independant Porsche garage(Unique Porsche in Bolton UK ) He told me yesterday that he has NEVER had a car with a failed IMS in his worshop and he does a lot of cars.
Nicely reasoned video.
My 986 Boxster is going in for RMS, doing the clutch and IMS while gearbox is off. Using the EPS IMS solution.
I asked the Specialists who will be changing the IMS about the oil fed bush solution and they were of the opinion that it was too expensive for the alleged benefit it provided, especially on cars that nowadays generally do around 5000 miles per year and are immaculately maintained with regular oil and filter changes.
Thanks! Makes a lot of sense. I’d definitely do my IMS if I was doing my RMS and yes, the cost / benefit equation must factor in!
Agreed, at the same time, your selling your car, you want to get a good price, your motivated by money
You’re. Right.
@@JAYREAD Bought my 2001 cab with a tip 2 and a half years ago, (most hated of all), put about 250 miles on it and was confronted with an intermix problem, so shit happens, bought a good low mileage 2000 used m96 and still driving today
The 996 is very popular. Patience in selling regardless of the IMSB.
I’ll get there!
Jay I agree with this opinion.👊🏻
My 2000 Boxster with just over 60,000 miles which I purchased at 59,600 miles has had regular oil changes according to all the service records I got. There’s no evidence of IMS bearing replacement and honestly after many articles and opinions I decided not to worry about it and enjoy the car.
Love it!, great video covering all the stigma about the IMS bearing. Good luck with selling the car, i doubt you will have much trouble as it is a beautiful example.
Thanks Clay! Fingers crossed!
My 99 c2 manual car is on 164k miles on original bearing with regular oil changes
Speaking to specialists the bearing generally fails before 40k. This fall in the theory of infant bearing failure where statistically a bearing will fail early in its life. If it gets past that early stage it will last the full expected life.
If you replace the bearing you start the time clock again rolling the dice for an early failure.
My friend who is a professor in reliability told me this.
My bearing will be replaced with the clutch.
That’s the point. People who buy cars just because the bearing has been replaced are no better off than one which hasn’t and is working perfectly!
@@JAYREAD any bites yet?
After replacing hundreds of m96 motors over 26 years from IMS problems the only permanent fix I have seen actually work is the EPS kit. We have re-replaced every other bearing kit from factory to LN ceramic, etc. the EPS kit is the only one that never comes back. It is so good I run it on our 986S race car.
IMS Solution is the best solution. It's what the car should've come with from the factory.
My early 1999 has 162000 KM. A previous owner replaced the IMS at 117,000 KM. I do not know why. I do listen to rear of the car whenever I am driving. That being said - if my engine craters I am doing an EV conversion. Probably similar priced to a factory engine. And further, when I get the clutch replaced the next time I will get them to give me their best recommendation and then go from there.
Quite right!
You hit the nail on the head. It all depends on the service history. When shopping for a 911, I was amazed at how many 10 -15 year old cars with under 10k miles there were. I am a mechanic. I understand what happens when a car is just a garage queen. Things rot out and go bad. I am more likely to trust a 15 year old car with 80k-100k miles on the clock with a FSH, than I would another one with 12k miles and no history at all. She's beauty and obviously well looked after. GLWS! BTW if you sell this, what are you going to use in Curbs and Canyons? Or do you already have another one lined up already? Good video. Cheers
Thanks a lot! I have NO idea what I’m doing for Colorado / Montana! Stay tuned!
I am not a mechanic as well but have purchased a low mileage (86000 Km) 986 Boxer with a failed engine and the cause was a failed (double row) IMS bearing. I don't know the maintenance history of the car aside from the fact the body and interior were in almost new condition and that being the reason I bought it. Just a non engineers look at how these engines were built raises a number of concerns. The IMS bearing were all sealed, pressed into a large hollow IMS shaft. Every time the car is warmed the air inside the shaft heats and squeezes through the seals into the crankcase, when the car is shut off the hot air cools creating a vacuum pulling tiny amounts of crankcase oil into the bearing and over time into the IMS shaft. This washes out the original grease and because the oil in the shaft is effectively separated from the crankcase oil it never gets changed. Over time this oil along with whatever contaminantes it contains (acids, moisture, particles) pool in the bearing leading to failure. When I removed the bearing from the damaged engine some contaminated oil seemed to be present in the shaft but what was more telling was in the replacement used engine I purchased. I replaced the RMS, IMS bearing and clutch while I had the engine out and was very surprised at the amount of oil inside the shaft even though the bearing and its seals were in excellent condition. From my untrained perspective the problem is caused by the use of a sealed bearing rather than relying on crankcase oil lubrication. There may be very valid reasons Porsche chose to use a sealed bearing but I am not aware of what they are. These cars have large crankcase oil capacity and owners by and large are well enough healed to do regular oil changes. Anecdotally it seems the failures I have read about and seen don't seem to be related to lack of regular oil changes but seem to be higher in low mileage cars. Perhaps sitting still with some contaminated oil pooled in the IMS bearing particularly in cars that are used in stop and go traffic are more susceptible to this type of failure as the oil doesn't reach high enough temperatures to vaporize moisture contamination. The failed bearing failed mostly in the inner row with the hard surfacing on the bearing race coming off in pieces and dropping into the crankcase through the damaged outer seal. I would disagree with the assumption that if hasn't failed by now it won't, every piece of complex machinery has a lifespan ( based on design, manufacturing, maintenance etc.) and the more use it sees the closer it gets to failure. My choice was to use the EPS non-sealed roller bearing with positive oil feed from the oil pump through the IMS shaft. So far so good, have added 16000 Kms to the car and loved every minute.
The trouble is it is random. So you pays your money and so on. You will find it easier to sell if IMS done. It is a bit of added comfort info a bit like the car has a F.S.H. It is a bearing after all. Every bearing needs changing at some point. So not if but definitely. And when!
Mate, I hear you; however, the recorded bearing failure rate is 1 in 12 cars. For something that can be so financially ruinous, 1 in 12 is a rather real possibility, what? 1 in 120 would've been more comforting...
How do you know it is 1 in 12? No one does! You hear of them happening but I’ve never actually spoken to someone where it has happened to them. It’s always hearsay. As I said in the video, however, it’s up to one’s own approach to risk. The whole issue is blown up by those that wish to sell you the remedy. Sure, if you are doing your clutch then do the IMS too. Maybe that makes sense. Most of the bearings that come out though - the vast majority - are just fine. I think the real cure is to buy a Turbo or GT3! On that we can agree, I am sure! ❤️
@@JAYREAD I'm quite certain that I've read the 8% failure rate figure in more than one report. I'm toying with the idea of buying a used Boxster S of circa 2006-8 vintage, and this alone is making me think and rethink. I also want it to serve me as a daily driver to and from my office, and whilst everyone uses it as a fun sporty weekend runabout, I haven't read too many accounts of how it performs as a daily-use car
The class action lawsuit was based on a 1% failure rate. However they state that the rate has climbed to 8% as time went on.
I'm coming late to the game, but the only thing I might disagree with you with is that I suspect the aftermarket IMS bearing manufactures don't make the majority of their money selling to 996 owners with a broken bearing, but rather to 996 owners who were scared into thinking they needed to replace it ('02 996.2 w/~80kMiles). Thanks for the well-made video.
I agree with you! By the time the bearing has given up, it’s way too late anyway. The engine is toast at that point.
Thanks Jay!!
I amd my mechanical all agree to do regular maintenace and drive the car--maybe change whenchanging cluthc--but my mechanic calls them nervous nellies!!
look at it LOGICALLY 1. the bearing is sealed so no matter how many oil changes you do wont help 2. water temperature 83 degrees its hotter in the oil things expand including the grease in the bearing which over time slowley gets pushed out and runs dry hets noisey then collapses 3. never ever any problem with the other end which is a 3rd the size but get fed sparingly off the oil pump. 4. a roller bearind the same size takes 10 times the load so my solution which others have done is. take off oil pump drill a 1mm hole in the end of the ims shaft which backs on the oil pump the cut a grove in the drive key and across the end to line up with the 1mm hole and put back together replace the bearing with a roller bearing and leave the dust covers off it get fed oil from the pump and the chains. spray the cover ims bearing cover with paint write date and milage on it in indelable pen drill the gearbox with a 10mm hole tap and put a short bolt in so you can put a camera up there and yead what you wrote. the germans are still getting us back after the second world war ....lol..... ps ive got 3 boxsters and a 911 done a couple more you might be lucky if you hear it rumbleing and avoid catastrophic damage but wait till you try to get the bearing out, ive invented swear words you have never heard ....oh and the main seal on the back is shyte go to kent bearings and get a proper oil seal
Ims is the least of your worries, the piston bore score is more likely specially on the 996 .2 and the 997 .1 cars
Is it? Is it really though?
It really doesn't matter if the risk is 1% or 5%. When it happens, it's 100% for that owner!
It seems like bore scoring is more common. Especially Cayman/Boxster with 3.4L engine.
Yes, curtains! But with a low risk of it happening. Who knows about bore scoring? As ever it is largely the people who sell you the remedy that causes the kerfuffle.
In the states, the attorneys generally get 1/3 of the total settlement from any award. Personal injury, class action, negligence, whatever. So it’s very likely they got WAY more than 900k
You mentioned the Oregon chapter of the PCA. LN’s only authorized installer in Oregon is Matrix on Macadam in Portland. They advise against the LN solution, saying it compromises the strength of the engine by drilling the extra hole. They only do the retrofit bearing from LN. I just bought a 99 C4 cabriolet six speed with 56,000 miles on it and no maintenance history for the last 10 years and 10,000 miles.
Interesting! Thanks and congratulations on the car!
Another great video Jay, what a shame you had to go to such a length to explain this potential issue to all the trolls out there.
I hope you sell it soon because I recon another 996 is in your future….🤔😉
It’s a wear item. Change after so many miles, easy to change drive on. No problem .
IMS killed my llama. Don't miss with it.
I like how you’ve added your accent into this. Have your varnished your dick for the season yet?
😂 the kiwi accent lives on. Love it. Ps……. th-cam.com/video/FGMkEfuWZHM/w-d-xo.html
If you’re in doubt you are not in doubt. Change it as a service part.
That bearing is a standard bearing. And not original designed to be operating in hot engine oil. The seals on the bearing are dust seals, meaning it is a very good idea to remove them.
How long do wheel bearings last??? They are exactly the same design. Designed to cope with axial and radial forces.
Change oil at least every year og 6000km
Ah you might be right.
Wheel bearings last because they run in grease.
Great information. I have been building Porsches for a while now.
Thanks!
Got a 98 dual row IMS and 183000kms, no problem !
Just drive the cars properly … the more and harder you drive the better 👍 forget the ims 😅 unless the clutch needs to be changed.
I guess the 3.6 - 3.8 m96-97engines cylinder liner issues are more frequent and a bigger issue maybe 🤔
MY03 Boxster S 69k IMS never replaced. Oil replaced ever 6 months no metal on the plug. Mine appears to be fine. So far. When I need a clutch I will get the IMS done.
Came across your video again. Currently at 74K still no issues. I have switched to oil changes annually.
I have a December 05/6 997 bought it new with 110k miles no problem whatsoever..
Thanks for pronouncing Oregon correctly. How can dirty oil be a cause of IMS failure if the bearings are sealed with their own internal lube? Porsche having modified the IMS bearing several times and eventually getting rid of it, suggests that the design was faulty. Ninety-two per-cent chance of IMS bearing never failing is about the same odds of not dying of heart surgery. I avoided this problem by buying the 997.2 Porsche. Now I just have to worry about bore-scoring.
Dennis, there is a link in the video description. Have a read of that. They explain it well.
The bearings have a seal that comes into contact with the engine oil in the intermediate shaft. If the seal wears out the bearing's internal lubrication can leak out.
@@xqtemari there is not supposed to be engine oil in the hollow intermediate shaft. One theory is that oil gets in there and turns rancid, and eats up the bearing seal. The bearing sits partially submerged in oil, from the sump side. A sealed bearing should never be sitting in a hot oil bath.
I don’t like the idea of a sealed bearing, sitting in a bath of hot oil. Seems to me that the seal that holds the grease in will eventually become brittle and break apart. I wouldn’t replace the bearing with anything but an oil fed bushing like the IMS solution. These sealed bearings were never meant to live in this atmosphere, where they cannot be checked. Such a critical part to fail, and take out the entire engine. During an oil change, I always cut the oil filter apart, to check for metal fragments.
My 2003 c2 had the bearing replaced in 2012 with a £30 SKF bearing and its till 👌
When I bought my 996 it had a slight leak at the RMS/IMSB area plus it was due for a clutch.
I agree that the Solution is the only replacement that makes sense so that’s what I had installed. Never having to think about the IMS again is worth the extra money. Yes the problem is overblown and selling a 996 will only amplify that. A potential buyer should be worried about bore scoring on a low mileage example anyway haha.
Good luck 👍
Bore Scoring is now the most common cause of death of M96 and M97 engines. Even creeping into newer engines.
I rebuilt an engine for a friend where the IMS bearing had failed. It is a one owner car, had only done 44k miles and been dealer serviced from new. It damaged the drive teeth on the crankshaft for the timing chain. It has done 85k mikes now and is still owned by the original owner. So I have experience of the failure and doing the repair.
It didn’t kill the engine?
@@JAYREAD Oh yes it did. Stopped dead in its tracks. Fortunately at the side of the road. A car used every other day and serviced as it should have been.
The most costly damage was to the crankshaft where a couple of the timing chain drive teeth were chipped.
Overall around £4K of damage without any labour. It now has a lubricated bearing and has not been any trouble for many thousands of miles.
So yes it is an issue but I know other people with the same engine that are still running without and issues or modification.
$4k plus labour or $700 plus labor (minimum) to replace. I’d take the risk.
@@JAYREAD This one was broken so no real choice as the pets were needed. I did it myself so the Labour was free. When I replaced the clutch on mine I replaced the IMS bearing and a couple of other bits for not much more than the cost of the lubricated bearing. I would quite happily buy one and do an engine rebuild.
Well, when it comes to the IMS bearing in 996's, perception is reality. The fact is that the IMS bearing is a potential source of catastrophic failure that can be remedied and therefore should be addressed. I didn't say likely source of failure, but that is the perception. Which becomes a reality for a seller. Whether you agree or not, a buyer will expect the bearing to be done or will expect a discount off the market price (if they're still willing to continue with the sale). Just look at the results on the online auctions sites and the comments from bidders.
Meh
Great video, mate.
Mine was done at 96k came out in perfect condition but all the bullshit mate the previous owner panic 🤣
Cheers Rich!
Hi Jay, as always a great video with excellent information. Can you please remind me again what you are selling your 996 for? Thanks.
Thanks Jeffrey! $37,500 give or take!
Can anyone tell me a case where the engine oil was replaced every 3000km never garage queen and never overheated and drove the car as intended to be with an IMS failure? This failure is not black and white and is a case by case basis mostly due to the owner habits or reluctance to maintenance, would like to know.....I have 363500km on my 03 C2 Cab original owner and my M96 is beautifully functional, flat 6 for life!
Great point! I suspect that the advice out there is not balanced nor complete but based on fear.
I haven't changed mine yet also only 2 years or 10k oil changes mine is due now.
Have you seen the prices of the 928 they have gone up now nice if you change your 996 with a roaring V8!!
It’s a thought!
Did you ever sell the car? I see that tiptronic auto go for a bit less than 6 speed manuals. I'm thinking of selling my manual 1999.
I'm prepping my 1999 manual coupe for sale. Its got 103k and I'm pretty sure on the original dual row ims bearing. I bought the dual row solution kit in 2019 with the intent of installing myself but haven't got around to it. I want to sell the car and I'm concerned many buyer will make a huge deal out of it. Like it's been said, if it's held on this long it's probably good until a clutch.
I wouldn’t worry about it. Overblown issue.
@@JAYREAD thanks Jay. I'm looking to buy a 70's air cooled 911 after it sells. I originally wanted a coupe but have warmed up to some open top fun with the targa. The bad part is I'm in Illinois so I'm almost assuredly buying from another state. You should do a video about buying and shipping a car sight unseen which many do but I myself cannot wire $40 - $50k without seeing the car in person.
Eisen case was not of value to me in my 2002 Boxster S. It had its engine replaced at just under 5k miles with the same engine which had the same design flaw. It failed again about 20k miles later. I should have opted out of Eisen, so that I could have brought my own suit.
Oh really! I haven’t corresponded with someone who was actually part of the class. What happened the second time? I hope you got it sorted OK.
@@JAYREAD I sued and case was dismissed. I contended that because the engine was replaced and was not 10 years old, that my car should not have been limited by the 10 year limit. I have just had the engine refurbished by an outfit in Miami and should be collecting it soon. It sat for many years. I am excited to drive it again.
@@davidtracy9058 ugh! That sounds awful! I’m glad it’s back working again though!
Here's my take on IMS..."It's just an Insurance Policy..." You do not have to buy a policy if you choose not too, and if anyone comes asking...Does your car have an Insurance Policy on it? They are either too Caught up in the FUD or are NOT serious. Iv had owned a 930, 993, and currently a 2003 996 C4S Coupe with 44k miles. I love the car, is it Perfect...NO but it was better than I expected. I bought it sight unseen, with NO regards for IMS, RMS, AOS or Bore Scoring. Some say I'm an Idiot, Others say I'm Passionate and Brave. With Porsches...Both of the above are Correct. When I do the Clutch I will do Everything that should be done, until then I'm enjoying "The Most likely Underrated and Undervalued 911s on the market." Every Great car has their issues...now don't ask me about my other current toys...M3, G35, C5, C7, STi, or Z3M. Conclusion is that The 996 is Overall the better car of the bunch and don't let Fear stand in your way of Your Driving Passion not Parked...
Oh Darn...this is what happens when I don't watch the whole video before I respond. You and I both are Insurance Guys...hence the Insurance take in the IMS. LOL
I thought I detected a bit of insurance in you there! Great post! I am 100% with you! Anyone asking about the IMS should also ask themselves what other Porsche 911 with 41,000 miles they can buy for $37.5K! NONE!
Well presented.
Thank you!
Welcome to selling something. I just post what I am listing and ignore the trolls. Respond to genuine buyers. And always ignore the trolls they are looking for you to engage with them. Focus on your main profession and you will make more money then wasting it on selling “a” car.
Exactly!
Tune RS. The true solution 👌
Ah you might be right.
Why would you risk it tho? The cost of replacement is a frication of what it would cost to replace or repair the engine?
As I said, the likelihood of it happening is so remote that the cost is too much. Just one man’s view!
the sound of the TV in the other room in the background makes this so hard to watch. I kept thinking I had a TV on somewhere?
Haha! Oops. Sorry, Steve!
If you talk about 996 M96 you shoudn't show a picture of a Mezger IMS. Besides that i agree on yearly oil changes. And if you've read your owners manual you will have seen that Porsche recommends a yearly oil change for that engine type. Ceramic bearing will hurt your engine much more, if they fail. My IMS bearing was changed at about 60 k miles. It was completely fine.
Yes, I do my oil changes every 6 months. Thanks for pointing out the picture blunder!
Babe wake up jay read posted
Booya!
Buy a 2008 plus Boxster S , 50% cheaper than a 911 and 90% of the fun. No IMS . 6 cylinder.
It might clash with my 2001 Boxster though!
@@JAYREAD Our cars, great cars ! A car of your choosing and timing makes us happy eh mate !
My 2002 Boxster S has 129,000 km and no I haven't replaced the IMS bearing. I've read on some of the forums that an early warning sign are tiny metal specs in the oil filter during oil changes.
I've always had the gut feeling if it was going to happen it would have happened by now but hey it could pop tomorrow or the day after or the day after that then all you arm chair experts out there including my brother-in-law who is obviously a Porsche expert because he drives a Dodge Caravan can tell me I warned you the sky is falling! 😏
Hahaha! Exactly! I haven’t done mine either!
Have owned a 2000 C2 Tiptronic since 2010 with 52k....had original IMS in it.Now twelve years later and 105k on it and still going strong. I am religious with oil changes every 5k or yearly.The IMS issue was severely overblown. My take is spend the 3k for a new one or roll the dice and hope for the best and just ENJOY it
Same here!
So much contrasting crap out there about IMS & Bore Scoring - that's why these cars are cheap in first place, its driven the prices down anyway!, same for 986 /987 Boxsters. But it does happen rarely. For me the original dual row version seem to be much better with no issues, its when Porsche went single row bearing appears to be the issue, but there are always exceptions. Then later 997 Gen 1 IMS is inside engine not really replaceable, but supposedly has no failures?? But 3.8 997 renowned for Bore Scoring so Porsche really screwed up basically until the Gen 2 997.
Check for Bore Scores first or buy Gen 2 997, or a Turbo they don't have the issues but in UK will cost you £10 / £15k more about the same as full engine rebuild.