Conversation With Atheist Biologist PZ Meyers - Can Something Come From Nothing?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- The "Give Me An Answer" ministry began as an outgrowth of the dialogues Cliffe Knechtle has had with students on various university campuses throughout the United States. These universities include the University of Maine, Harvard, MIT, University of Florida, University of Texas, University of Wisconsin, University of Minnesota, University of California Los Angeles, University of California San Diego, Berkeley, Stanford, University of Hawaii and the University of Washington. Cliffe spoke on these campuses in front of the Student Union or Library at noon for five to ten minutes. At the close of his initial remarks, he'd open up the time for questions and answers, which usually turned into a two to four hour dialogue with students. His crowd size ranged from 25 - 500 students at a time, and between classes, new students would join the discussion. This is an extremely effective way to reach a large number of university students with the Gospel of Christ.
#Evidence #Christianity #Jesus #apologetics
Kudos to the atheist here having a more relaxed tone of voice compared to the others, but he did profess a belief in intangible things that he couldn't explain or support with evidence.
Amazing grace
How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost
But now I'm found
Was blind, but now I see
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
If people are interested, PZ Myers (correct spelling) has a post "Arguing with evangelicals is like wrestling with a bollard" on this discussion over at his 'Pharyngula' blog.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Cliff and Stuart, the more I listen to you the more I am revolted by your position.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Bob when you look at your life and wonder why it is like it is, take a look at your purposefully blind suppression of whats written in your DNA makeup. God put that there.
To chanllenge you, stay at it
How? How does something come from nothing just because? It just happened and we don't know why? Come on now. That is so depressing.
I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone say "reality is nothing more than the material" and then turn around and say "free will is real". How? That is so self contradictory
Very interesting interaction between Cliffe and PZ talking about if there is no God then we're just a bag of chemicals. PZ is exactly right in saying we're so much more than that in terms of who we are as humans and what we can achieve, and that a God is not required. You can even take a step back and say look at our primate cousins, they have very similar strong emotions as us, kindness, tenderness, hate, anger, kinship, jealousy. We share a common ancestor. I dont think Cliffe can accept that we evolved from lower forms. Evolution has nothing to do with the initial creation of life, it is much more about adaption to the environment, and tiny incremental changes. We can and have manually sped this process up with various animals such as dogs and pigeons.
Okay again Tom you're either missing the point or you're denying the point I don't know which I don't know if it's an ignorance meaning unformed or if you really choosing to ignore it or deny it okay there's a difference, when cats with the bag of chemicals or uses that metaphor if you don't believe in having a conscience Guided by the supernatural by a God if you don't believe in having someone above you helping you learn right from wrong with the Holy Spirit or what-have-you whatever way you want to describe it then we are nothing but a bag of chemicals. And seeing if you looked in your home if you own your home and your mom and your dad were your Socorro help Gods at that moment showing you how to live your life telling you what to do meeting you in that and you didn't obey them there's consequences if you obey them with love and respect not a force there's a Ward's this benefit learning this beauty This Love it's that simple, that's how easy it is to break it down if we don't have a father or God that leads us in all truth and away from sin resin are selfish lustful ways then society as it says will break down and destroy itself regardless of whether you believe in survival of the fittest or not at some point because of selfishness and lust the world will destroy itself and as far as our thinking goes if we don't have a conscience from someone like a God then you're thinking is just as equals my thinking that's Wyclef and Stewart talk was subjective thinking or subjective more ALS etcetera you can't tell me I'm wrong I don't care if you don't want me to say to a hundred king or Rick 300 women or Rob 1000 Banks you can't tell me it's wrong to guess in my subjective you may be for my reasons it's correct just as then I wouldn't be able to criticize you or correct you or reproof you in your doing things good or bad so unless we have a objective morality given to us by the objective God then we are just robots doing things out of reaction and everyone has their own reaction there's nothing truly real any more reality would be dead.
"saying we're so much more than that " In what way are we "more than that"?
@@godislove363 I don't think god taught you right from wrong but I wish he'd taught you about grammar and general sentence structures...
Why do countries with the lowest levels of religious beliefs have less crime?
Why do so many priests molest children and why do so many of the church's higher ups aid them by simply moving them from church to church...
Both of these facts point to religious people being more sinful than non-religious people.
@@elzoog Are you actually being serious? Do you really think that if there isn't a god then you would be on equal terms with a tin of soup?
@@elzoog Great question Brian, ok, a bag of chemicals is exactly that, but we're sooooooo much more than that, we can write poetry, dance, sing, laugh, cry, the fact that you've even responded to me is testament to the fact we have a brain that can do extraordinary things. A bag of chemicals could not do that. We're incredible, not just us, but all living things, look at a common fly under a microscope and see the incredible detail of it's structure, it's mindblowing. :-)
PZ has a shocking amount of opinions on Objective morality for being just a bag of chemicals like he admits to be in this video. PZ says he is just chemicals and the human body chemical wise, consists of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. PZ has a huge burden of proof to prove how those chemicals can claim Rape is wrong, Love is objective, Murder is wrong. How can a human reason using those chemicals only? It is impossible and PZ failed to prove it. Great video exposing the madness of atheism. At 29 minutes PZ says that's all he is. Even PZ doesn't believe that.
www.amrita.edu/news/hormones-and-chemicals-linked-our-emotion
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
It is impossible to open the eyes of a blind person (PZ) unless the Holy Spirit intercededs by his repentance!!!!!
As far as I know, PZ can see just fine....nothings wrong with his eyesight!
@@thomasmarthinussen8978 this comment was meant to be understood by Christians only
Well done PZ gentle theist assassin .
It seems that the ratio of talking between the Xtians and PZ is about 10:1. Humble Xtians talk over him and go on rants. Doesn't seem worth the time to watch. Have fun.
Value is a cognitive product such that we are the ones doing the valuing, If one doesn't value others, then one has no issue harming others. If one values others, then one has issue in harming others. This is the case regardless of whether one is a believer or not. One of the rifts between some segments of believers and non-believers is the idea of Divine Command Theory versus well being.
If one consider actions that support well being to be moral and consider actions that assault well being to be immoral, this will form a criteria by which to make moral determinations. Thus, the idea of slavery is considered immoral, since, such is an assault to well being. Slavery is wrong due to such being an assault to psychological well being, since, personal autonomy is an aspect of psychological well being. The best aspect of this concept of morality is that it is objectively reviewable with regard to net impact upon
Got curious and searched this high-profile scientist on TH-cam. 2 years after this debate, he is muttering at spiders on youtube video...
Claims about reality which are unsubstantiated are assertions. This is the core issue with theological claims.
Hi guys. Thanks for the video. Hitler was not a Christian as he claimed to be, in fact Hitler was a Catholic syncretist as he also was very much into occultism. He was also an evolutionist who took the survival of the fittest theory to the extreme, creating a master race by the killing of thousands of Jews, who he classed as a detriment to society who couldn't benefit society in anyway shape or form. The same could be said of people found with comorbidities or disabilites, they were killed in order for the superior elite to survive. In no way was this man a Christian, as he was a murderer, a charlatan, a dictator who was never the reflection of Christ by his actions, who wanted to be worshipped as a god himself, he claimed by his own words to be Christian and yet later on went on a mission to abolish Christianity. Hitler wanted to get the Christian God out of the picture, in order to allow him to lead an empire, to take over the world and for him to be worshipped as a god.
Going off topic I am sorry P Z but evolution is both an irrational and dangerous religion. Abiogenesis could never occur, as non biological material has never been observed in a lab to create biological material. In fact scientists have never been observed creating life in a lab nor can we expect or ever will observe this. Biological materials have to come from a source of power, where did that source of power come from but from an intelligence.
When you look at a cell for example in the human body, scientists have said that the functioning system of a single cell is more complex than that of a NASA space shuttle.
You believe that a dot smaller than a period on a page created everything, all the animals, plants, humans everything, or has Kent hovind said 'you couldn't even fit a bowling ball into a dot smaller than a period on a page.' Nothing created everything, but what's nothing plus nothing, nothing right. All said out of love P Z, I'm praying for you P Z, God bless you Stuart and Cliffe. Thanks once again for the video. God bless.
Being more of an agnostic myself, I'm actually a fan of Cliffe and his way of reasoning but he tends to jump to conclusions without real justification.
I'm confused about the point of this conversation. It kind of sounded like the Cliff and Stuart guy wasn't really trying to learn anything from the questions he was asking. Or really trying to accurately re-state what the Meyers guy was saying back to him. It seemed more like sort of using every opportunity to shoe-horn in... sort of scattershot piles of pro-Christian statements.
This is a Christian channel that is very open minded about exploring any other ideas and tying it back to how it relates to Christianity or debating conflicting ideas. The point they drive home in almost every debate is that “if there is no god “morality can’t be objectified and is only man made subjective opinion. If you don’t believe in God the over simplified fact is we are only bags of chemicals and there is no such thing as “true” human value. You can pretend we have value but it’s only your subjective opinion. And if you are being intellectually honest with your atheism the only real question is why not die? Or why not just stick a needle of heroine in your arm until you do die so you can have the most pleasure possible until your gone? There is no reason to build relationships that serve others and puts them before your self. But these atheists don’t live the implications of their beliefs out... they all live as if life has intrinsic value beyond chemical bags
@@bumstudios8817 I think my original point stands unrelated to yours. Your point... seems more about trying to prove god exists than trying to live a moral life? I mean it's not very practically useful. First you'd have to conclusively prove a god exists. Then you'd have to definitively demonstrate that god has an ethical stance at all. Then you'd have to actually conclusively establish what that is. Then you could start to talk about if you actually care. None of that sounds very useful if you're trying to figure out how to treat other people right now.
Or you could assume someone else is telling you the absolute truth and just let them tell you all those things. That would be easier, but not very likely to actually reflect the right ethics.
Michael Smit And you my friend missed the complete point... if there is no God there is no such thing as a moral life. Obviously you could come up with some subjective man made morality but you will have a problem living that out and being intellectually honest.
@@bumstudios8817 Again outside of trying to argue for a god so what? When someone is hit by a car in front of you do you ask "does a god exist" and then try to figure out who it is and what it wants before helping? I just help them. I'm not really hung up on how objective it is.
Michael Smit Exactly.. you help them because you understand that humans have a value beyond bags of chemicals... why... why don’t you just walk off if someone is hit by a car I mean if there is No God then helping them or not helping them doesn’t matter, but it is that human nature instinct inside of you that humans have a value a true value not just a subjective value that is a evidence of objective morality. Objective morality requires an objectifyer.. in this example it would be a mind outside of our universe whose nature defines morality. Something isn’t moral because I say it is and I’m a Christian, it is moral or not moral if it obeys the nature of God. Take God away and you have no objective morality. You can take that as an evidence of God if you want or not but remember if God doesn’t exist it doesn’t ultimately matter if I were to shoot you to win the discussion;)
Amazing how atheists talk about morals justice with not justifications I never heard an atheist justify those things
Did you ever ask him the question can something come from nothing
When you open a cell you see chemistry. No one is that stupid.
I wish they would of discussed atheists with consciences more... some of the other recent atheist debates have had opposing views...
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
This debate is for viewers not the debater since : The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2nd Corinthians 4:4
Yahweh really shanked when he chose Cliffe as one of his apologists. So if his god is love, is it loving to torture the majority of your creation mainly because you're the champion of hide and seek?
Damn, this Cliffe guy is infuriating, is he not capable of listening? Atheist means you don't believe in God, agnostic means you think it's impossible to know whether God's exist or not.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 Sorry, I think you've responded to the wrong comment...I didn't mention anything about the gospels, I just provided the actual definition of atheism and agnosticism.
Why are your chemicals so upset, move your opinion elsewhere startdust, your opinion is worth less than your faith which rests upon blindess, why bother cure the blind when they remain blind spirtually. Do what you want sir, people dont have the right to judge, but you will be . Make no mistake
@@paulreeves4108 Before I respond to you properly are you honestly that stupid or are you just trolling?
Why the Christian is so angry ??
Barnum and Bailey Circus. That's what Cliff and Stuart sound like, Circus Ringmasters.
"Unconditionally, loving God"
Your guest made a point at about the 30 min mark to argue against Cliffes statement about the the rational does not come from the irrational by making the point that humans are irrational and things still come about from this....but....we can only know the irrational if we are first created as rational beings, so the irrational is secondary and any point made is void because of this....as well as the point that the laws of logic exist regardless if humans exist.
Not a single scientific claim states that "something came from nothing"
Except that they all ultimately rest upon that
@@delicheese6774 Do they? Prove it?
@@TheRealCatof The origin of the universe; the ideas of matter and energy
@@delicheese6774 What about them? Nothing you just said translates to "nothing into something"
@@TheRealCatof Of course it does. The presence of something implies an antecedent.
According to Cliff, NO ONE knew anything about Love until 2,000 years ago. Until Jesus came, Humans did not know anything about Love. What Idiocy, I feel sorry for anyone in his environment, he is So Warpped!!!
Sorry your chemical makeup feels that way. O well, bump your opinion else where star dust
@@paulreeves4108 Evidently, You are in his Warpped Environment. Enjoy!!!
Good gods PZ, how do you have the patience!!!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Suppress it away you can not run from jesus
No. There is no nothing.
PZ Meyers says that there is nothing that would convince HIM (this "him" is the key point I want to emphasize) that God exists. However, he defines HIM (or his self) as a continuation of some biochemical reactions. So, any "thought" he has is a set of biochemical reactions. Therefore, if some biochemical reactions occur in his brain to cause him to "think" that God exists, then by HIS logic, HE would believe that God exists. This contradicts his statement that nothing would convince him that God exists.
Not really. It just means that he doesn't think a biochemical reaction that could cause him to think god exists can happen in his brain. I'm sure he would be happy to add some caveats to that such as 'assuming he's not suffering from some kind of cognitive decline'
@@canislupusfool "doesn't think a biochemical reaction that could cause him to think god exists can happen in his brain"
He has no basis for saying that though. If the biochemical reaction of ABRHCO... or whatever is what causes the thought of "I believe in God", then all you would have to do is somehow cause ABRHCO... to occur in his brain.
@Vincent Poupart How do you know that it's "evidence" that causes ABRHCO... to occur? What if someone invents a drug that causes ABRHCO...?
@Vincent Poupart Or better yet, a biochemical scientist operates on his brain to cause ABRHCO...?
@Vincent Poupart Ok, since the eyes are connected to the brain, that means that the right visual stimuli could cause ABRHCO... to occur in PZ Myer's brain. If not, why not?
Cliff speaking of Rational while he is completely Irrational. Cliff, Rationality Does Not Exist in You, that's for sure. Prayer is talking to yourself and your imaginary friend.
You've got a right to your point of view.
why is it that atheist call God names then wonder why they can't find evidence God exist? can calling God monster and evil be related to not being able to see find God? why so much hate? hate toward God hate toward people of faith. be happy when someone finds God. they go from being miserable to at peace. from hate to love. from bad to good. stop being negative and God may reveal Himself in powerful way.
.
It's interesting that PZ Myers says that if Jesus were to show up at his door he would call the cops on him when he also believes that the police are corrupt and shouldn't be trusted.
@james smith I think what would happen would be he would call the police. The police would come and tell him that since they don't have probable cause (or any other evidence) of any criminal behavior, they can't arrest Jesus. This would then make PZ Myers hate the police since anyone who doesn't obey everything he says is evil to him.
There seems to be a silly caricature of Christianity that comes from many atheist sources that is both a very weak argument and even quite immature in its grasp of the difference between human behavior and Christian doctrine.
The mitigation of logic on this one issue is astounding. The atheist worldview is painfully limited. The Christian is free to follow the evidence wherever it leads. Materialism is an obviously limited worldview.
Romans 1 & 2 describes this with laser accuracy 2000 years ago. The heart that rejects God, rejects logic because logic emanates from God and thus their reasoning becomes flawed and the worship of the contingent above the necessary leaves their heart darkened. The focus turns inward and debasement of reasoning follows.
This foolish marathon, which is the running away from objective truth, is a sad commentary on our modern society. We're not evolving or "ascending" as the new agers claim - we're getting worse by the day! 1 million dead babies per year in the US is all the evidence one needs for that.
I'm not sure you know any atheists so if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them in order to help you understand the general worldview of an average atheist
"....because that's all we got''...sums up the whole viewpoint....treat people good...."because that's all we got"....fish + time have no obligation to be good to other fish + time....(i still do not understand who gets to determine what "good" is in an athiest worldview)
Negative vince, you missed everything, what well being, what betterment for mankind. Who determines the prigression. Its survival of the fittest. Eat or be eaten. The strongest of the group will kill off the weakest. So if the power money hungry eleite do that now, and your included bub, are you gonna tell them theyre wrong? Theyll tell you to kick rocks time to die and thats our collective eleite opinion
Should we be actually talking to these mad ones who are nothing compared to the living God.
Who do they think they are compared to God? They are nothing but ants shouting at the burning sun.
1 Samuel 17:26
King James Version
26 for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?
Because we have too... cant just write them off because of there misguided gaslighted luciferian manipulated mindsets. We have to help them. It becomes a team effort, the kindom of heaven is so great i wish we could all go. Its scary to see people fall further and further
@@paulreeves4108 Good for you Paul that you see it that way. I think there can be a time when we might like to try reasoning with them, if for no other reason than to actually realise where they are at.
There’s a guy out there, a disbeliever by the name of John Cassin, who seems like a reasonable person.
However most of them are not this way.
But good for you for wanting to engage with them but I’ve had a guts full, even with their misguided gaslighted luciferian manipulated mindsets.
I’ve done my team effort thing. I’ve paid my dues. But for me personally to continue, it’d be like casting pearls before swine. Enough is enough says your brother Paul. But good for you Paul. Keep up the good work.
But count me out.
As it would be unusual for alligators to be with horses or pigeons with snakes so too is it with the righteous and the unbelievers.
This righteous life of the sons and daughters of God who have made themselves fit for heaven, would be an unbearable life for those who are opposed God.
As the character of the believers continually improves by increasing their obedience to God, their fitness for a harmonious fit in heaven increases with the gain of the ceaseless love for the brethren.
The saints in the eternal reign where a constant state of adoration exists towards God, would be a place of depression for the wicked who secretly crave self adulation.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Can you also write something different? Anything?
Jesus is dead !! talk to any rabbi