Rock Dust & Biochar Field Trials: 3rd Year Yield Results
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- My rock dust and biochar field trials are complete! Today I share the yield results.
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OYR is all about growing a lot of food on a little land using sustainable organic methods, while keeping costs and labor at a minimum. Emphasis is placed on improving soil quality with compost and mulch. No store-bought fertilizers, soil amendments, pesticides, compost activators, etc. are used. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Yield may be one thing but how about nutritional values???
Hi Bob! Regarding increasing nutrient density, Stephen, from Alberta Urban Garden, participated in this field trial and sent crops to a professional lab for analysis. The results showed that rock dust did not increase nutrient density of crops => th-cam.com/video/B64NywRTPck/w-d-xo.html
Do you have a mineral analysis for the variety of rock dust you added? Would like to see the composition. Obviously there are a lot of different rock dusts available.. To say "i added rock dust.. didn't work" is meaningless. Plus you added worm castings to both, so you really evaluated the combination of rockdust, which is generally alkalinizing, with worm castings, against the control(which is obviously a well developed rich soil) and the biochar+castings. It's not surprising that adding LOTs of an alkalinizing substrate to an organic acid rich soil would immobilize a lot of those nutrients and decrease yields..
@@TH-camTM432 Alkalinizing? Worm castings should be balanced they are compost after all... And worms don't like alkalinity either..
O
I thought we needed to give the rockdust time to become bioavailable especially if worms live in it for a while... speaking as a novice here...
I really love the fact that you talk about peer reviewed studies and scientific results. Especially in this day and age when the cost of everything is so high. You just saved me a lot of trouble. I kept reading that biochar was so effective, but your video has shown me to keep doing what I’m doing, making compost and adding it at least once a year to my beds. Thank you for all that you do to help us gardeners.
I've been gardening with rock dust and observing about 5 years now, and here is my take. It really works wonderfully when nitrogen availability is adequate throughout the growing cycle. Dark glittering greens and the taste is truly strikingly rich and sweet. However, when the nitrogen level in the soil gets low, which is very common in many gardens (especially mine), the added rock dust can hinder plant growth and health by having a condition where the increased density and reduced porosity of the soil work against the ever-weakening soil life conditions. Very typically, the plant uses up all the available nitrogen that it can get at, which is also shared with the soil life. The soil life is significantly reduced because of this. Soil life has a difficult time thriving under low-nitrogen conditions. It is made even more difficult in combination with a denser rock dust infused soil.
So, I think you can picture rock dust as having an amplifying effect depending on nitrogen availability, for better or for worse. On my rooftop city garden, I've generally had significant nitrogen challenges arise with my containerized beds, non-manure compost, and excessive winter/spring rainfall.
microbial life is the only way all the insoluble nutrients in rock dust can become soluble.... i would like to know what kind of rock dust he used in this experiment .....lots of different kinds of rocks out there .....hahahahaha......nitrogen gas stored below ground is amazing ....imagine what incredible CEC soil could do heheheh ........dude didnt load that biochar with enough nitrogen ......and thats the best place for the rock dust........preferably micronized basalt with paramagnetic properties and some gypsum for the sulfur and either ammonia or urea or better yet amino nitrogen and mix the two up to preload the biochar or zeolite.....1/2 lb growers secret soy nitrogen to 2 lbs of micronized basalt .....inoculate this with something like rootwise and then lets see this guy do his test
i think what we need are systems which release nitrogen when plant requires this without runoff i suppose healthy soils will hold on to nitrogen more than unhealthy soils but not sure.
From what I've read, one of the primary advantages to biochar is that it is a very stable form of carbon that is not easily exhausted, unlike more labile sources like compost. A better test of biochar might be to see how treated soil compares with untreated soil over several years without bringing in outside biomass (i.e. chop-and-drop gardening or less frequent applications of compost made from only on-site materials).
You have your finger on the pulse of what we want to know. You are extremely thorough and a brilliant presenter. I am so grateful for what you do. Thank you so much
Thanks so much for your kind words, Antoinette!
Thank you so much for sharing this information, Patrick! I'm sure it took a lot of effort to record and track those yields. I find all of your videos to be helpful and informative, and you've inspired me with many ideas to try in my own garden.
You're welcome, Ken! Thanks for the encouraging feedback!
Bless You,, straight to the point. I watched fairies, elves and clowns then I finally found you.
Thanks for you and similar people like you on TH-cam, I have spent way less on my Garden this year and enjoyed a better yield.
That's so great to hear, Sunil! Thanks for letting me know.
I'm pretty sure I basically "wasted" well over $1000 the first 3 years I gardened buying products and bagged soils. Love seeing these trials Bc it confirms that I don't need to keep buying anything. I've got a worm farm and a big compost bin in my chicken's area and they keep it turned. I planted 30 comfrey plants after seeing your videos on comfrey to mulch with and compost with. The only thing I am going to bring on to my property now are free clean fall leaves and wood chips. It seems every other thing is reusable.
Thanks! With all of those great free resources at your disposal, you won't need to spend much at all on improving your soil.
Look at back to eden gardening, it doesn't cost anything. Wood chips with Paul Gautschi
i wouldnt automatically say its wasted.. if you were buying quality organic inputs there are too many nuances for a field trial like this to draw conclusions from, which is exactly what OYR is saying right now as i type this
A lot of people have to believe that if Home Depot has it on the shelf, then someone with our best interests and with THE knowledge ok'd it going to market. I bought scotts turf builder and dumped it on brand new kentucky bluegrass seed, then doused it with miracle grow, thinking I was nailing it right on target, and I was adding badly made compost, so I had a real edge on everyone. Till my first youtube video, when I found out I am a sheep. We do that. Now we have a point of reference to begin with, and its more than a lot of people will face. This is tye end of the story... for most people.
Glad to see you here!🇨🇦👊🏻👨🏻🏭✨💖🙏🍁♻️🍁 I now own a lawncare company, organic if possible, but whatever I have do do to please a customer, you know. I am learning JADAM liquid fertilsers, and starting to look into making a compost tea bubbler soon. My lawn has biochar with about 20 inputs in it, all organic, and my worms are snakes! Lol
I have sometimes bought bagged garden products, but mostly I make compost with free leaves from my recycling center, kitchen waste mown grass, and whatever else I have available. After several years, all you really need to add is compost. This channel is great For gardening on a budget.
I love your dedication to the scientific method and statistics you used.
Very informative and well thought out! Wonderful presentation as usual. Thank you so much for going to the trouble and for explaining why these results would vary from someone else's that, say lives in the desert. I have a yard/several beds full of clay and sand so your hard work has been beneficial to me and anyone else with similar beds. I'll be sure to continue to make and add compost. Thanks again!
very, VERY interesting.....I've watched you years and know how structured and thorough you are....trust your results...thank you.
My pleasure, Dan!
Thanks for your tests. I'm still going to make Biochar, mostly from blackberry canes. My clay field needs it, I have water issues with shallow well, and I need charcoal to absorb the herbicide my neighbor sprays. Husband died from being the major chemical sprayer on their farm from a young age. Biochar people have maintained that it makes the best advances on damaged or poor soil so your test is valid for you, but not for the millions of acres in the world that are constantly eroding. Happy gardening!!
I thank you for doing this experiment and I'm grateful I found it now!
Thank you for your amazing work in recording results, truly admirable!
When charging biochar he should've added kelp fertilizer for trace minerals, I make a compost tea and brew that for 12-24 hours before adding my charcoal. I start with jump start fertilizer, insect frass, kelp, fish fertilizer and worm castings. Goal is not too feed my plants at all.
Thank you for sharing the results. We have to follow the basis, composting and soil biology.
You're welcome, David! I agree.
This is fascinating! Thanks for doing this and sharing your results.
Thanks, Sasha! You're welcome.
You have saved me a lot of money and time with your channel, everyone else seems to be peddling something(growingyourgreens pushing rockdust and compost tea and migardener pushing "organic fertilizer"). I could see biochar being a benefit if your starting with subpar soil(not your black gold) but adding expensive sand to soil doesn't seem to make sense when you really step back and think about it. Thanks again for all your great work! Keep it up, it is appreciated!
You're welcome, Paul! I'm glad I helped save you money.
Great video! Have a wonderful Sunday evening!
Thanks!
Very interesting results! Helps to show that all you need is a good soil from free organic soil amendments. However the tomato yield results for 2016 were quite interesting! I better get on with a version in the UK!
Thanks, Huw! There were only 2 tomato plants in each group. Though the plants were assigned randomly, the biochar group had the luck of the draw with the 2 best plants. I'm pretty sure Stephen had lower tomato yields in his biochar group. It would be great if you did a UK trial!
Thanks for the video !!!!! Came at a good time for me. I was very seriously planning on buying some Azomite and Biochar for my garden, but very seriously considering not buying any now. I use mushroom compost on my garden and already have pretty good results. Thanks again !!!!!
Great video! Your videos are amazing!
Very interesting the nose dive in yields.
We have found the rock dust incredible with our fruit trees. I wish I could say why!
calcium
Love the experiment and like how you did it!
Thanks!
Always enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for letting me know, David! I appreciate it.
I originally thought I would need rock dust and biochar. But lately I have been studying Dr Elaine Ingham's work on soil biology. She grew crops on land in Australia that had been in the 28th year of a drought. Amazing woman.
She's right that soil biology is the key to making ample nutrients in the soil available to plants. She goes as far to say all soils have enough of the elements needed by plants and just need to be made available by soil biology.
OYR Frugal & Sustainable Organic Gardening what about things like magnesium and selenium , where we are seeing there is immense lacking of these in our food and maps showing areas in the world where the soil is deficient in these? Are you saying it’s in the soil just not accessible??? These are imperative to good health , so I’m keen to know why you are saying this opposite to a long known issue?
@@peacelilly5074 I have since changed my views. See Dr Arden Andersen. He says volcanic rock dust is paramagnetic and makes your plats mature more quickly. Paramagnetic just means they attract energy.
Let the soil biology including the worms eat the rock dust. They will produce amino acid chelated minerals easily absorbed by your plants. So we still need Dr Ingham's contributions.
Magnesium is the core of chlorophyll. Selenium is in the earth more in some areas than others.
I took on a garden which hadn't been fed or taken care of in many years. I found that chicken poo and rock dust helped. Before putting either into the soil, I couldn't just plant something in the ground as the soil was just too poor. We've put rock dust and compost down for 19 years and are just beginning to get very good yields on our fruit trees and bushes. Quail poo and the hay from the shed is now going down to form hay beds I can sow into as we are heading for colder and shorter seasons. Bags of coffee grinds from the local hospital have also gone down for nitrogen.
Good info. Thanks. BTW, I once had a cat that loved to wrestle like that. I always kept a spray bottle of Isopropyl handy for the inevitable scratches.
Let it bleed out first.
Great information.. love the scientific approach.
Thanks!
Thanks for the info! FYI when I got up this morning it was 18 with a wind chill of 11.
You're welcome, Jill!
I think that your composted leafs already added all the nutrients that the rock dust is trying to provide.I have noticed that the Biochar when added to the compost pile does perpetuate its growth.I inoculate mine in a fermented conditioner like a liquid Bokashi slurry.It is nice because once started you can keep adding solids to the mix and take them out when the bucket is full and add them to your compost.The compost is very dark brown and rich once it is aged.Once this is broken down i feed this to my worms and they love it as a nesting material.I think you are right you already have very rich soil.I think if you use a control group that is a difficult soil like the soil i have here in las vegas you will see the difference.
I agree that biochar can be very effective with poor soil. I'm not convinced that rock dust is helpful, though. Trace minerals aren't deficient in most soils, and compost alone can usually provide them when they are deficient. Minerals in compost will be available to plants much sooner. Minerals in rock dust may take many years to become plant available.
Still, I have to admire the genius of the rock dust industry, from a marketing perspective. Think of it, somebody actually convinced the public to buy bags of worthless rocks!
lol
😵
Seriously? $100!!?? An Oregon Department of Agriculture study found that most of these products don't even contain the microbes that they claim to contain. One of the mycorrhizal amendments was nothing but colored water. I'm planning on reviewing the study in a future video.
And John Kohler is in cahoots with them !!
suDz yeah, he is crazy about rock dust. lmao
Nice field trial Patrick. I ditched rock dust a couple of years ago too. The bio-char is something I am looking at though for my aquaponics system. If I go with using autopots they recommend using it.
Chuck
Thanks, Chuck! Biochar will definitely hold onto water an nutrients.
Thank you for going to the trouble to do this.
You're welcome, Loren!
Thanks Patrick. This is exactly what I expected. Compost is the answer. Have a great day.
Thanks, Bob!
The problem was you did not feed the micro-organisms in the worm castings, so they would have significantly vanished, you basically put mainly charcoal in your soil.
had you added a cuppla pounds/kilos of sugar, the micro-organisms would have hugely multiplied, so being able to significantly transform your soil, using their safe habitats in the Biochar grains as bases.
You did not, imho, use Biochar, neither Enlivened biochar nor even Activated biochar, and your results suggest exactly that.
Pity you had such poor advice as to what is really Biochar.
I have a vegetable garden. when I start a new bed, I have been mixing in lime, - as I am in a high rainfall area, and a certified "organic' compost mixture, as the field was a horse paddock, and being basalt soil, although old, get a good crop, first time, then declining.
Compost is not much good, my farm being sub-tropical, it diappears in 1 to 3 weeks, mulch a bit longer, leaving interesting new weed problems.. OK so limped along, applied bio-dynamic 500 prep a time or two got some good crops and always something to eat out there, enter my new wife, an old peasant farmer from Thailand, in the meantime I had learnt a fair bit about Biochar, got a pyramid flame cap kiln, had a worm farm, rrotary hoe etc.
So, she wanted to earn money, I mixed up my patent enlivened biochar, worm castings, local horsy poo for bulk, bits of organic matter from the garden as best I could, (to supply the local micro-organisms and fungi) sugar, (to feed them and what is in the worm castings) any minerals our local soil is low in (eg Borax, almost all high rainfall soil is deficient in borax, - it is after all water soluble, you wonder why so many people have calcium retention problems?) a slurp of seweed mixture, some pee, - mainly worm pee, and rotary hoe it in.
By then she has planted 4 *20 metre beds, - my old ones, prepared as normal, and after that the Biochar beds, - all weeding by hand with a knife, no artifical or poisonous anything, mainly worm wee to fertilise.
In typical Thai style, every square metre of soil instantly replanted when harvested, all weeds and plant residues removed and burnt, earning a couple of hundred bucks a week, - organic sales company calling around every week to pick up their vegies, but then, some things just not growing so well, tried cowshit, - bit of increase, more wee, - likewise, money dropped somewhat, - up to about 10 * 20 metre beds at that time, finally the penny dropped for her, stubborn old bitch, only the non-biochar beds could not continually crop.
Now she wants every bed Biochar, money is up to nearly 400/week, have 3 worm farms, the soil is so responsive, the 4 foot nothing one woman/tractor is happy.
Certainly not as rigorously conducted a survey as with yours Patrick, although the rigour of real life was strongly there. :)
@@MrGeoffThomas ....your wife sounds amazing!...please speak nicely about her!…
Thanks for doing this! Interesting that beets and Swiss chard had different results between the two years since they are the same species. I think that your climate and amount of rainfall might make biochar less productive than it could be in a warmer, drier climate. I do appreciate your citizen science work as it helps us figure out what might work in our garden.
Glad to find this video even if it’s a few years old. I live in a sandy area near the Gulf Coast, with lots of rain and naturally acidic soil, so I’m trying to figure out the best way to replenish minerals in the garden. I already incorporate lots of compost, but I think I’ve decided that Rock Dust is not an alternative. I’ll probably just stick with lime for calcium and magnesium in addition to compost and fertilizer.
Thanks Patrick for great info. I maybe new in gardening but I remember back in my country we never added any other stuff to the soil except for backyard compost ..and yielded yummy and great veggies and fruits...
Oscar didn't like rock dust and biochar either.
Thanks, Ramona!
Thank you! Keep up the good work.
You're welcome, David!
Result thanks for the update.
You're welcome, Dave!
thanks for the information, is very helpful
Great video. Thanks for the info.
Thanks!
Your honest and concise presentation was appreciated. Thanks
BTW, love that Oscar. He seems to be part piranha. lol
Thanks! Oscar loves to fight with me. (I get a kick out of it too.)
Your cute kitty looks like Zoro! Thanks for the valuable info.
From all that leaf litter you have very good soil already.
I agree
And i bet oscar keeps the mice under control as well. I'm surprised the rockdust made such a difference. Thanks for doing this trial for us!
You're welcome! I was surprised too. I expected to see no difference at all.
Excellent video, thank you for taking the test to do your own tests on this. would you consider using boichar just for carbon sequestration even if if does nothing to help crop production I'm your particular case? love your videos and always look forward to your uploads.
Thanks, Ben! I don't plan to use biochar in the future, but I definitely think it's a great amendment for soils that are low in organic matter and have poor nutrient and water holding capacity.
wow, glad i watched this! thanks
You're welcome, Thomas!
hoorah the happy tune is back always good info cheers
Thanks!
Great as always!
Thanks, Inger!
Hey Patrick, great information. It just goes to show that "progress" has it's place but sometimes the old ways are the tried and true ways. Good compost and manure...our ancestors knew what they were doing...
Thanks! Yeah, gardening is one area where you probably don't need to follow all the latest "advancements", especially when they're driven by marketing. Even so, biochar is good stuff in some situations.
Old ways? A couple thousand years? That's what Biochar has under it's belt. I agree about old ways, but people find something ignored for centuries and it's the new best thing. Regenerative Agriculture has been around in indigenous people forever practically. I love that it is being publicized because I grew up on a farm where plow was king. Destructive little bugger. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! Ha ha!! Thanks, everyone, for gardening!!
I'm trying bio char this spring and find this interesting. I'm in Ohio and have clay base soil so I don't have a lack of moisture and perhaps like your experience it's not for my clay base soil.
I'll test
Thanks
I work at a grow supply store and we sell basalt rock dust. It's a by-product of the mining industry. I can't help but think about the Giants Causeway. It's formed from basalt millions of years ago and has been exposed to the elements for longer than humans have roamed the earth. It hasn't dissolved. The edges haven't worn off. I'd say that basalt is very insoluble in water.
Bio char in my desert environment definitely helps with water retention and inoculating beneficial microbes into the soil. I charged it using the compost tea method. I totally agree with the rock dust results. It's not necessary for gardening at all.
I feed my worms leaves, and do it up big time, with the worms. I
make my own fish hydrolysate and Lacto Bacillus Serum. I ferment plants and fruit as well. Fermented tinctures and everything. You may like Korean Natural Farming. Not sure if you've come across the method, but I love it.
Thanks for
Yes, biochar should definitely help in sandy desert soil.
Great update. Thankyou for the information! What are your thoughts on using Epson salts?
Thanks! Epsom salts are only helpful when there's a magnesium deficiency in the soil, which isn't very common. I've never used them and don't recommend them.
Thanks for sharing. This is the 2nd video i have watch with the same topic as yours n both of u have shown that the control groups sre better than d dust n biochar. Just curious, May i know how the biochar was made n activated n the amount of time used in activating biochar. The way of activating d biochar might have an effect.
I have also watch 2 videos both saying, not all biochars are created equal
Thank you. Your the 2nd person to confirm this. I appreciate your time too.
My pleasure!
Interesting trial.
I'm a farmer myself from Ireland. Don't know much about these commercially available "rockdusts" in North America though.
But I tried out an experiment myself on a few acres when I was ploughing and reseeding permanent pasture. I was wondering what type of rockdust to go with. But anyway I googled the quarries in Ireland and by chance there was a quarry in the my county that had the type of rockdust i wanted for pasture on my soil. So I contacted the quarry and got the dust delivered (mafic dolerite) and spread it on the soil and tilled it in at 3t/ac. I also spread 3t/ac of calcite lime as the soil is acidic.
By my own visual reports are that the grass is darker in areas with heavier rates of dolerite in the field.
I went with dolerite as I reckoned it would be a good alrounder for the soil and I would have a hungry soil. But even in the lorry loads there would be a difference between some loads. With some loads being brighter with more quartz in the rock.
From experience with lime down the years rockdust can take nitrogen from the plant as the soil microbes break down the different elements. By taking N from the plant I mean the microbes get the soil nitrogen first and the plant roots just have no access to nitrogen. For my own grassland I've seen this nitrogen become available again in August when the microbes die with a big flush of grass.
But anyway there's a big difference in rockdusts and even loads from the same quarry and too much of one element can lock up or release another. Magnesium lime for instance releases locked up potassium in the soil.
This can bring it's own problems for dairy farmers as well as benefits.
But anyway soil test. Know what your plant requires and watch your soil pH.
great videos. you need paramagnetic rock dust (vulcanic) to facilitate
the flow of electromagnetic forces from the atmosphere to plants.
Thanks! The rock dust I used was volcanic in origin.
What I found with natural products like rock dust, greensand, etc is it can take 3-5 yrs to see big changes in improved growth but then it lasts for 10+ years. I did mine along with green cropping - I think you need a good cross measure of different organic methods. You can’t expect to just dump rock dust etc and expect that to work by itself. Also - I have never used for increased yield but for taste profiles I found much improved with it. In fact I hadn’t seen anything on increased yields with rock dust - just that minerals can help with taste.nnIt is the same as with pure water i.e. all minerals removed being flat and not as flavorful as remineralized water. This is why most RO systems include a remineralized cartridges. In certain parts of the country there is what the old timers called sweet water - it is minerals - maybe limestone - that gives that great tasting water. Whether rock dust helps big time or not depends on where you live and if the soil as been depleted such as farms that are continually farmed and are likely depleted if growing crops that pull lots of minerals and then developed into subdivisions. I have done the wood chip - no till and also found the taste profile on tomatoes, and melons in particular improved with the addition of minerals bit again - it takes a few years. I like the organic approved rock dusts, greensand, and azomite. On rock dusts I like to get as many different sources as possible. If you have a relatively small garden and you travel a lot both in your state and outside - take a couple 5 gallon buckets with lids with you - make a short visit to the local rock yard and bring home rock dust. It can make up for minerals not present in your local rock due to different types of rocks. This I haven’t tested because I don’t travel much but it would be worthwhile to see the difference each year of adding rock dust (ground up pulverized local rocks) from different states.
Great video, Patrick! Are there any other products you'll be testing in the near future?
Thanks! This winter I'm testing a free homemade potting mix against a commercial organic mix. I might do more small tests like this, but nothing that requires as much garden real estate as the rock dust/biochar trials.
Good vid, Patrick. All of my beds are made of Angus bull compost with cardboard and limbs up to 6" as a base. The only thing I put on it is pre-emergent to kill weed seeds. I don't add anything else. The texture and overall composition seems to be perfect. I can dig anywhere with my hand trowel with little effort. I like that. I don't believe in tilling up the soil anymore. I'd rather build on top of it. Most of my raised beds don't even had solid sides!.lol I just shore up the sides now and then. I have 30 chickens and in the spring I plan to clean out the coop for the garden as well.
The greenhouse is still rocking the greens here. And my bok choi has made a comeback as if the cabbage worms never were. I am going to try winter-sowing after Christmas. Its worth a shot anyway. Stay warm!
HI Jill! I'm glad your greenhouse is still rocking! It sure is nice to still have greens growing. Have you tried organic mulches to suppress weeds?
OneYardRevolution | Frugal & Sustainable Organic Gardening Yes, I use wood chip mulch as well. Im not totally organic. I just like using the pre-emergent on newly lain dirt BC the weed seeds are horrendous. One dose in the onset is enough to keep weeds at bad all summer, as long as I don't turn any of it up.
Thank you so much for this video. I made a lot of charcoal this winter because I was curious about biochar and because it seemed like a good way to lock away some carbon out of the atmosphere for stuff I had to burn anyways. My garden soil is very healthy so I probably won't see a benefit from adding biochar, but I am still very curious about setting up a controlled trial myself. I would like to inoculate and charge my biochar using a compost tea setup. Do you have a recipe for doing this so I can charge my biochar enough with nitrogen so it can overcome the very high carbon to nitrogen ratio of untreated charcoal ( C:N ~= 100:1) to avoid sequestering free bioavailable nitrogen from my soil?
Thanks again!
Urine is high in Nitrogen. I read in Mother Earth News a few years ago that adding urine to rotting wood in soil or compost helps to keep it from soaking up all the nitrogen as it breaks down. I use fine wood shavings from my rabbit's litter box as mulch and my plants seem to love it. On the 2nd year, once the poop has dissolved and the sun has bleached it, I mix it deeper into the beds to help with water retention and to further break down. Seems to work great for my 8b climate, I also use heugalculture (logs at the bottom of each bed) and water down my own urine to a 10% mixture for additional nitrogen once the rabbit mulch is about 30 days old.
I watch for a little leaf yellowing on my nitrogen hungry plants before giving urine and it greens everything right up. So far I haven't burnt any plants with it, either. I figured it was worth trying since it's free. I don't use it the last 2 weeks before harvest though, just to be safe
So you planted the same plants each year? In the same spot? What about crop rotation? And what about amendments being added the 2nd year?
Thank you for this work, but I would note that soil already has a high WHC and adding rock dust at this huge amount is going to really kill the WHC. You have effectively driven the soil anaerobic = more bacteria less beneficial fungi = less yield. I used to add Rockdust to veges grown in pots and trays in potting mix...It worked very well. Then in my exuberance I overdid it and killed my potting mix permanently (just like your trial) and I was using very high AFP medias ie. a media with reasonably high air in the first place. I found rockdust helped but only at 1 to 3% by volume in already very open airy mixes. Australian university trials supported pretty much my observation. All rockdusts are not the same also! Rockdust only contributes certain elements and it is very slow, so you need a very good aerobic food web in the soil to support it. I found rock dust increased leaf size in peat, vermiculite growing mixes, side by side comparison, using balanced hydroponic nutrient. The rock dust amendment held more water. No surprises Shirlock...smaller particles means high WHC. In that peat environment it helped by adding alkaline components as rockdust pushes alkali. Might I take a wild guess and say your bed limiting factor was likely N as Biochar is full of everything else you could need. Worm castings are great, but only add so much Nitrogen, which unbalanced soils quickly volatilize. Also your climate might be the key limiting factor also, no matter how good your growing media. Like putting a Ferrari motor on a push bike. Similar Biochar will only add so much air to the mix and tend to make the media more alkali . I have done similar trials by adding perlite and vermiculite to a broad range of composted organic media mixes. and found that a media with 53%WHC in both large raised beds and mid size containers (9 to 20 litres) 2 to 5 gallons and 25% AFP is about perfect averaged over all seasons...and certainly maximises yields of most plants, so long as the nutrients are all there. You still have to feed this with a very well balanced nutrient generally liquid fertilizer, if not you cannot realise the benefits. Most beans like 45% WHC which was the peak value for yields. In Australia at the -33.3 degree latitude where I live the media quality and nutrient uptake balance is often the key limiting factor as we have abundant sun and near perfect growing weather for much of the year for a broad range of vegetables. I am in little doubt that biochar or perlite added to soil with the right amendments and focus on getting pH, organic matter and soil conductivity right, would out-yield most plain soils. One must remember that adding anything means you displace something else. So when you add one thing you need to also add its compliment eg. add coir ie. lots of K but the price is (Mg,Ca,Fe draw down) so also add perlite and vermiculite so elementally one helps to balance the other. The net gain of both is more balanced nutrition with higher WHC with higher AFP and good mineralogy too., but none of these have much nutrition and those it has are fairly slow as all are fairly inert. So now you focus on getting the nitrogen source right and you are well on your way to growing a great crop as you now have means to build a happy fungi environment. But all three have displaced soil, so you have depleted not only soil Nitrogen, so more work is required to put it back and also balance up everything, before you even look at all the other macro and micro elements you may need to balance for heavy feeders to have a feast and realise the amplified potential of the media itself. I hope this goes some distance to clarifying why others find rockdust and biochar work well. None is the complete answer, but merely a means to contribute to good media/nutrition synergy.
Regard Rod.
Great job on keeping track! I wonder if PH was raised too high from the rock dust, and if composting with it would make it more plant friendly?
I wish more TH-camrs would mic themselves as you seem to do, very well produced audio!
Thanks, Justin! I didn't test the pH, but Stephen from Alberta Urban Garden conducted the same trial and had the soil professionally tested. The rock dust didn't significantly alter pH. He also had much lower yields in the rock dust group.
Aha! Thanks for the response, quick at that.
What about brix and/or flavor or pest resistance? I'm guessing that there were no conclusive results that favor the rock dust amendment pertaining to quality of produce?
Stephen also sent plant tissues to a lab for analysis and found that rock dust did not increase nutrient density. My brix test of tomatoes found no difference in brix. Taste test results were mixed and inconclusive. I thought rock dust greens tasted slightly better, but 2 friends, my wife, and I judged control tomatoes to be better tasting than rock dust tomatoes.
A lot of effort Patrick.Appreciated.I wonder if the vegetables themselves were higher in nutrient value.Or do they just take what's in the soil?Oscar is such a cute.Bet he grrrs at the dogs.
Thanks! I think Oscar thinks he is a dog sometimes 😸. I didn't test the nutrient content of the veggies but Stephen Legaree (Alberta Urban Garden) did and he found no differences.
Stephen and I conducted the same trials in our separate gardens.
What type of soil did you start with? I’m wondering if you get same results in Florida with our fast draining sandy soil. Also, does Biochar help raise ph? my soil is hovering 5.0 here
Thank you. Just feeling my soil I can tell there is plenty of tiny rock dust particles already in there. There is no magic bullet. Except for compost.
You're welcome! You're right; there's no shortage of rock particles in the soil.
I was very optimistic when I amended part of my backyard garden with rock dust a few years ago. Now my worst performing part of my garden was that very same area. Perhaps coincidence, but perhaps not.
You, Stephen, and I have all had the same experience with rock dust. The peppers I grew in the rock dust bed in 2014 even had blossom end rot, which is something we never see in the rest of the garden.
you have good soil, I have sand, trying the biochar
Thanks for sharing the results Patrick, I hope it opens a few peoples eyes. Now the question is how to get the Rock dust out of your garden to get it to perform as well as the Control . LOL :-)
You're welcome, Kevin! Good thing it's just a 4' x 4' bed. 😬
The best way to add trace minerals to your garden is to first take vitamins that contain trace minerals, then collect your urine in a bucket. Dilute the urine with water, the more dilute the better. Then water your soil with the urine mixture which now contains water soluble vitamins and minerals.
Yep
Did you add any compost tea? That is vital to biochar and rock dust.
Great job thanks!
Thanks!
Ya looks like you got some good results there. 2 years unless something was fundamentally different about the beds in the beginning looks like you have very good evidence there on why not to use them. :) Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome! I was most surprised by the rock dust results, because the rock dust and control beds are literally right next to each other and were filled with exactly the same soil mix (before adding rock dust to the rock dust bed).
Ya I was quite amazed with the rock dust results. Do you have a theory why the rock dust slow production. I really have no clue as to why it did this and I can't even say it was a short term effect as the 2nd year it was the same. Just goes to show how careful you have to be amending your soil. Any thoughts as to how you will repair the soil or is this something that will git fixed by adding more compost. Or will you have the soil retested and go from there? Thanks :)
It's very hard to say. Stephen from Alberta Urban Garden conducted the same trial and had similar results, so it doesn't seem likely that it was a fluke. I don't plan to do anything special to repair the soil. It's just a 4' x 4' bed and my guess is that things will come back into balance eventually.
Nice :)
Thanks Patrick & Oscar for another year in gardening.I understand the logic of the perceived need of amendments,because of soil degradation from erosion,lack of rotation in crops,and plants taking from the soil nutrients without replenishment from compost.What surprised me that in some cases it was detrimental to productivity by the introduction of amendments of rock dust or Biochar. I have enjoyed over the couple of years that I've followed your Y.T. uploads.👍I appreciate the information you have sent, looking forward to seeing more next year!😊
Thanks, Uwe! I I appreciate your supportive feedback!
The proof is in the pudding, and you just told us... Good one..
Thanks!
OneYardRevolution | Frugal & Sustainable Organic Gardening
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Thank you!
You're welcome!
I thought rock dust was snake oil from the first time I heard of it. I have this stuff that I call clay but it is light brown and dries hard like a rock. I can crumble it into dust, and I use that in my potting mix in containers, just a thin sprinkled layer of dust every so often when I fill the pot. Might help.
Great videos. I'm just using homemade compost in a trash bin and the occasional splash of urine. But then again I'm poor and can't afford fancy dust… so my plants will have to make the most of what I have to offer. Cheers :)
I think you're on the right track! You don't need the fancy powders anyway.
I've never used biochar but without any scientific study I have the same opinion of Rock dust I used it for a couple of years and couldn't see any improvement. Keep looking over your shoulder those garden centres are going to be after you. LOL
Now you've got me worried, Dale! 🙂 Fortunately, the trials are done and I can finally stop talking about rock dust and biochar!
I never believe rock dust is great from beginning, but skeptical about biochar. Thank you for sharing this result. Seem like having a bit biochar is better than rock dust. Still, these can't beat old fashion way of compost goodness.
You're welcome! Yes, biochar is definitely effective in poor soils, but I remain skeptical about rock dust. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hi. Great videos. Very informative!
I bought some soil last spring and it gets very compact after watering all summer. I've added a bit of compost to try and loosen it up. Could you tell me what I should do to make it more light and fluffy. Thanks you
Thanks, Mike! If you're not already doing it, I recommend mulching the soil. We mulch with a variety of organic materials, including wood chips, leaves, and grass clippings. Our soil is very light and fluffy and leaves have more to do with that than anything else.
Too easy! I'll do that as soon as I get some plants in the ground this spring. Thanks so mulch... I mean much haha
Mike Pettigrew You're welcome, Mike!
Thanks Patrick, I was teetering on the idea of adding bio char , nope not going with that expense. I will stick to making compost by the tons. And all the ingredients are free, except my time , fuel , handling and hauling............Ken&Beverly
Hi Ken and Beverly! Yeah, if you have access to enough organic matter, biochar probably isn't necessary. Like biochar, organic matter increases the nutrient and water holding capacity of soil.
Test your soil before you spend money on amendments for your garden is good advice. Thanks, Patrick!
You're welcome, Jim! You summed it up very well.
What about taste and did the plants look any stronger?
What about the taste were either of these trails better tasting?
Find a maple tree of you can.
Pile up the leaves in the fall.
Use lawn mower over them twice.
Bag them up loosely, pour in a quart of water and let them sit all winter.
Mix with soil in the spring.
You just added free minerals! lol
Comfrey is excellent for minerals too.
Update:
Leaves seemed to help but didn't have enough of them composted to make a fair determination. I chopped up a whopping 80 bags of leaves and it still was not enough. Leaves also take a while to rot too.
I also used biochar (home made). Too early to tell with that too because it can take 2-3 years to see any benefits.
This year I am going to try a little Azomite (not the same as the lame rock dust) since I generally plant the same things over and over.
I plan on adding in some Polyacrylamide (organic version - water crystals - made from corn starch I think) for better water retention and more uniform soil moisture. Takes too much time watering anymore and too much water.
I am not looking for extreme production, just reasonable production plus a little extra.
Not going to pay $40 for a soil test for just ONE spot in the garden as the garden does not have a homogeneous soil mix.
Last year, out of 50 tomato plants, they produced about 400 tomatoes. Not very many for that many plants. And over 200 were destroyed by insects and vermin.
I even tried air pruning laundry baskets and they too didn't produce much.
This is an excellent video and I like how you don't claim anything but rather just show your experiences and results in great detail, very honest. As others have said it seems your beds have everything they need so the additions didn't help, I am surprised however that the rock dust was actually detrimental and wonder why. Perhaps it added soil density and changed how much air the roots were getting? Or, maybe it just offset the natural balance that was spot on before it's addition. Funny story about assumptions, I started gardening in my yard 6 years ago and the first thing I did was build up raised beds and filled them with topsoil, vermiculite and peat moss from the local nursery. My plants did ok but I guess I didn't have a control. A few years into gardening I decided just for the hell of it to plant some lettuce, beans and other crops I didn't have room for in my beds just in some of the native clay soil that was turned over and guess what... they THRIVED! In fact, compared to my great mixture in my beds the native soil actually grew many things much better to my surprise. Looking forward to new videos, love your approach.
Thanks so much for your feedback! I'm also curious why the rock dust group did so poorly, but unfortunately don't have a good answer. Perhaps it had a negative impact on soil structure or soil life or created a nutrient imbalance. I'm not too surprised you had better results growing in your native soil. Clay can be hard to work with, but it holds nutrients very well. Vermiculite and peat don't add any nutrients to speak of, so if the top soil wasn't very good there might have been deficiencies in the raised bed soil mix.
In the future I'm going to just mix the native soil with some things to lighten it up, compost mostly and go from there. Raised beds were a necessity in my yard actually because it flooded during heavy rains so getting the garden up a few inches saved it from that. I often wish I lived in a neighborhood of other gardeners, would love to trade produce if say someone grew this better than me and vice versa. I have fantastic peppers but greens for me, not as good.
You might also try just adding organic matter on top and letting earthworms and other soil organisms mix the material up for you. This is basically what we do with our shallow raised beds.
Good suggestion and that's actually my plan this year for the existing beds. Spread a layer of compost then mulch with some leaves to keep the weeds down and hold moisture. I was thinking and reading more about soil and raised beds and came up with some ideas why some people may benefit so much from rock dust and others not at all. Just think about what many people put in their raised beds, many especially if they read Mel's books will fill their beds completely with organic compost and maybe some peat or vermiculite but their beds will contain by definition absolutely NO soil! I actually went on a reading spree to see what soil is and how it's formed and essentially soil takes thousands, even millions of years to form and it's just broken down rock from what resides under your feet and the action takes place from freezing, thawing, erosion, acid producing lichens etc. So getting back to rock dust, isn't it really the same thing as soil minus any organic material that's mixed in it? When I built my raised beds I didn't do so because I wanted to but I actually did it because my yard would flood during heavy rains and my first year of gardening was a disaster after it got flooded one too many times. When I built my beds I really didn't know much at all about what to put in them so I bought "topsoil" from my local nursery and to that added peat moss, vermiculite and other organic matter. When the organic matter breaks down every year my beds look low but I guess the actual topsoil I put in there, well that doesn't break down and remains. So getting back to the original point of why rock dust may work for some and not others may be as simple as the fact many raised beds have no soil and from what I've read a combination of 60 percent soil to about 30 percent compost and the rest humus or vermiculite is ideal for gardening compared to just compost or just soil. Putting in rock dust for those people may simply be doing the same thing as throwing a bit of native soil back in with all that compost. I'd also imagine what kind of rock your rock dust came from would also make a huge difference in it's effectiveness. John Kohler has a quite popular gardening channel and I know he's a huge fan of rock dust, perhaps his soil (I believe he lives in a desert like area) is hugely deficient in minerals compared to our native soils. This year I'm expanding the garden and since I"m not sure if I want fruit trees or a bigger garden rather than building more beds I'm going to try mounding up my native clay soil and then adding a bunch of compost to break it up and let in some air.
You're right. I'd fill deep raised beds with quality soil and compost (and maybe something to improve drainage). The soil would contain plenty of rock dust. I'd like to see a couple things from channels promoting rock dust: 1) a soil test demonstrating an actual trace mineral deficiency; and 2) a controlled test comparing crops raised in rock dust amended soil versus a control. Until then, I remain skeptical about the need for rock dust and whether it's responsible for positive outcomes in the garden.
Useful information backed by statistics. Thank you! Question. How do I predict the amount of carbon sequestered into the soil by a cubic yard of leaf compost? I know the approximate finished dry weight of the compost after it's shrunk in half (540 lbs). Most of my compost pile is maples leaves. There are some oaks involved, but no more than 20% of the pile. As far as the carbon content of leaves, it would be between 35-87:1 There is 80 lbs. of coffee grounds per cubic yard of compost. I haven't found a calculation for the sequestered amount of carbon yet. Yes, some still does escape as carbon dioxide. Thanks for your advice.
Thanks, Pam! I'm not sure how to determine that either. I wonder if anyone on the Garden Professors Blog Facebook page could help?
Great idea! I didn't know there was one!
It really depends on the crop requirements and starting soil, on whether rock dust or biochar are needed. Did you test the soil composition prior? If so, you may have over amended already rich soil. If using potting soil and you want to reuse each season, adding rock dust and biochar will renew spent soil. Adding these amendments to already rich soil is completely unnecessary, unless you have a very high demand crop or very dense plots. I have had alot of success with azomite in native desert soils that are baked by the sun yearly. If weeds already naturally flourish in your garden, adding amendments is unneeded imo. Weeds are one of the best indicators and will tell you how healthy your native soil and garden soil already is. Thank you for this video, very informative and a great experiment!
Though the beds are near to each other, it is important to consider the differences in watering and exposure to sun. I assume that the first factor is the same for all, because it is easily controlled, but how is the difference in sunlight between the patches?
Very true. Rain is responsible for most of the watering, but I took care to water the beds similarly when hand watering. The beds were chosen because they get the same amount of sun.
So what quality of soil did you start with? If you already have soil to die for you wouldn't expect any improvement.
Gee, that's a lot of hard work and invested time, thanks you Sir all good info !
Cute cat, but we have a dog ....... LOL
You're welcome!
So do you have a hypothesis about how the application of Rock dust might have reduced yields by a third? Did it have adverse effects on soil structure, or was their some other unaccounted for difference between beds?
My guess is that it has something to do with a soil structure, soil biology, or nutrient lockup, but I'm not sure.
How much activated biochar is too much in a soil mix? I'm in the process of aging the stuff with Azomite, worm castings, and beautiful forest humus that I harvested from my woods. Just for an extra boost, I pee on it as much as I can! :p As such, I've been having a great time making biochar in a pit that is about 4 feet deep. I saw in another video that Josiah successfully grew veggies in a 90/10 mix, but has anyone else any personal experience doing this (mainland perhaps)?
Very helpful. I will still be using biochar because I don't have enough compost. The carbon in biochar should break down slower, so reduce the need for compost over many years.
Rock dust never made much sense to me. It is mostly adding calcium, which increases soil pH. I suspect that's a reason for the reduced yields you observe. The trace minerals in rock dust are so low in concentration it's better to get those minerals from compost.
I think rock dust can make sense in a soilless potting mix to which you would be adding calcium anyways to prevent deficiencies in the plant.
Patrick, I think you might have over applied the rock dust! I'm not sure why you would do a rock dust trial when I think you did a soil test a few years ago that showed your soil was good! I don't know what rock dust you used or what the application rate is for what you used, but I think 16# in 16sq.ft is a bit much!! Here is the application rate for azomite .How to apply AzomiteApplication rate for 1 Quart of Micronized Azomite:Mix 2.5 tbsp. per 1 gallon of water per 40 sq. ft. and water lawn, garden, beds, trees and shrubs.When transplanting, use 1 tsp. per 2 inch plant diameter.Application rate for 1 quart Prilled Azomite:Prior to planting: sprinkle in bed (at 3 tsp. per 10 sq. ft.) and water.Vegetables and flowers: 2 tsp. per 10 sq. ft. add to hole when planting or sprinkle in garden bed then water.Turfs and lawns: 1tsp. per 10 sq. ft.Trees: 3 tsp. per 10 sq. ft. around the base of a tree, or 1 qt. per 1000 sq. ft. (use the canopy of the tree to determine square footage).Application rate for 1 Liter of Prilled Azomite:For commercial and agricultural application rates, use 44 lb./acre or 1lb./1,000 sq. ft. For vegetable or fruit production, double the amount of Azomite. For extremely depleted soil or heavy feeding crops, triple application rates. Anyway keep up the good work and keep the vids coming. Tom
You're right, Tom. The application rate was over the top. We conducted these trials, in part, in response to recommendations being made on TH-cam and being followed by many in the TH-cam gardening community. As such, I specifically followed the recommendations of a popular TH-cam gardener who promotes rock dust. I used a brand he recommends. I followed his application rate and I followed his application procedure. Alberta Urban Garden conducted the same trial and we reported all the results. Our results supported none of the claims regarding yield, flavor, brix readings, and nutrient density.
Thanks for the update. Is it possible that the rock dust bed is shadier than the others?
You're welcome! I selected three 4' by 4' plots that receive nearly identical sun. The biochar bed might have a slight advantage with afternoon sun, but the rock dust and control beds are right next to each other receive essentially the same amount of sun.