Ah ok seems he's right handed. Challenging to break this stuff down, but great to see him identify a foundational aspect! Wow, those triple conga grooves, too cool!
This is great. Thank you. I'm trying to figure out what he's doing at th-cam.com/video/Gw5kq8if6hE/w-d-xo.html and have two questions I'm hoping you can help with. 1. Would the three opens start on the downbeat of the two side of the clave? 2. He starts on the left hand and alternates L, R for the first eight strokes, then he does four strokes and the fifth lands on the right side. Is he doing two strokes in a row with one hand at some point? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.
1. Yes, the three open tones generally start on the downbeat of the 2 side. I say, "generally" because I've heard him mix it up, but that is definitely an entry point into the "pocket" for Gaugaunco. If you replace the first tone with a bass (or nothing at all), then you've got "real" quinto pocket which is just after the down beat. That second tone is the "quintessential" spot. 2. So cool that you caught Joe's ambidextrous flow. Sometimes he lands with the pulse on the left, sometimes on the right. If you explore this pattern, you see how easy it is. In this video he shares more of his quinto lock, although this one if Columbia, he uses the same pattern. th-cam.com/video/ihcNB2KLruA/w-d-xo.html
Joe used to say that the most important thing is putting the pulse of the gallop on the left. Even when he "switches" the phrasing from a left or right emphasis, he "always" plays the gallop with the pulse on the left.
And yes, sometimes he does two strokes in a row, or sometimes just a ghost note (space or pause). Because the feel is in triple meter, it's easy for the math to work out. Ultimately, listening to Joe and exploring this pattern will answer your questions. It's all in there! There's no secrets hand movements or magic, just the same basic patterns (with Joe's incredible execution).
@@scottnicolow such an amazing footage, but still it doesn't sound good really, theres a lot of distortion. Hope you guys can record something in a proper way
I think the easiest answer is that he probably doesn't know the terms. Guys who came up through the 70's were largely informed by R&B and Jazz. Getting to traditional and folkoric vocabulary was a TOTALLY different animal back then. There was no youtube, and you couldn't just put on 1000 different videos of guys talking about Abakua or Columbia. I would guess he had to ape the feel until he got it together. This is like someone who had to learn a foreign language just by living day to day in the country, and not going to school for the grammar. You can get REALLY fluent, but probably always have some structural stuff wrong. And I mean... there are seasoned native players who still mess up a clave, so... who's counting at that point... My theory is that this is what really made the GoGo vibe of DC in the 80's what it was. And I think that's why Miles went after it as hard as he did. I think if Joe was 30 years younger he WOULD have learned all the traditional rhythms and everything. He has a great sense of what the aesthetic of the time is, but he is missing a lot of details with the actual rhythms. I could be wrong, but I would guess he wouldn't have any idea how to play Guarapachangeo. BUT he comes really close because he has really dialed himself into the sentiment of it.
@@scottnicolow Eh... you might want to holster your gun there dude... Joe isn't a wilting flower and doesn't need someone to stan for him. The other commenter asked about traditional terminology, and I ventured a guess as to why he wasn't really about that. Does that make him an inferior player of some sort? Of course not. And I don't want to start a whole thing in the comments, but your video doesn't really change that fact. I see a mostly correct guaguanco. And forgetting the screwed up clave up front, I see Joe playing some lovely stuff on quinto that is absolutely in the vein of that style. But it sure as hell isn't traditional. But also who cares? That doesn't seem to be where he wants to be. And again, this all kinda supports my observation of where he's coming from as a player. I don't really see a guy like Joe knowing all the gory details of playing proper rhythms like guarapachangeo or columbia or whatever else. That said I think he could sit in those rhythms and have the right vibe and play beautifully. I like to think of it more like speaking a language with the right overall syntax but a heavy accent. Could converse with whomever, but maybe not in a place to teach english grammar or something. But not even that, because he seems like he's fine as a teacher. But my guess is you wouldn't study with him to learn those traditional rhythms. I mean shit- even Don Elias, who COULD play traditional stuff spent his time in a vibe closer to Joe's. His rhythms weren't like 100% anatomically accurate, as it were. But his vibe was fucking beautiful. So like... yeah... I hear him play. He sounds great. But not legit compared to I dunno, munequitos de mantanzas or something. Fine. Nobody fucking cares :)
And not to belabor the point, but even guys like Anga ventured away from the trad stuff. He killed with Irakere, and he was homies with Tata, but he was also digging into jungle drum and bass before he died....
Dude is talking with his hands,lol.Go to many places in Africa,particularly West Africa and see how the musicians talk with their hands playing these same LP,Toca,etc congas and tell me what's "traditional " technique.The concept of Cuban Rumba and conga technique came from Africa first....
Según la cultura musical de Cuba su nombre es tumbadoras no congas. Las únicas conga que existen son las de santiago de Cuba. Es un baile tradicional no un instrumento musical.
Really eye-opening ...
Glad you got something out of it.
Wait a minute . Think I got it now, at seconds' sight ! 😅
Great video
A lot to digest on this one.
Ah ok seems he's right handed. Challenging to break this stuff down, but great to see him identify a foundational aspect! Wow, those triple conga grooves, too cool!
Yes, he was definitely right handed, but as you can see, he could execute from either side, seemingly seamlessly.
Just found this and I am trying to break it down! 🤣
Great Teacher !
Indeed. Check out his quintessential quinto lock if you haven't already. Good stuff!
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Appreciate your response. I keep coming back to this video. Pure gold.
❤❤❤
So glad you enjoyed or benefitted from Joe's teachings.
This is great. Thank you. I'm trying to figure out what he's doing at th-cam.com/video/Gw5kq8if6hE/w-d-xo.html and have two questions I'm hoping you can help with. 1. Would the three opens start on the downbeat of the two side of the clave? 2. He starts on the left hand and alternates L, R for the first eight strokes, then he does four strokes and the fifth lands on the right side. Is he doing two strokes in a row with one hand at some point? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.
1. Yes, the three open tones generally start on the downbeat of the 2 side. I say, "generally" because I've heard him mix it up, but that is definitely an entry point into the "pocket" for Gaugaunco. If you replace the first tone with a bass (or nothing at all), then you've got "real" quinto pocket which is just after the down beat. That second tone is the "quintessential" spot.
2. So cool that you caught Joe's ambidextrous flow. Sometimes he lands with the pulse on the left, sometimes on the right. If you explore this pattern, you see how easy it is. In this video he shares more of his quinto lock, although this one if Columbia, he uses the same pattern. th-cam.com/video/ihcNB2KLruA/w-d-xo.html
Another example th-cam.com/video/2S4QtRAclVs/w-d-xo.html
Joe used to say that the most important thing is putting the pulse of the gallop on the left. Even when he "switches" the phrasing from a left or right emphasis, he "always" plays the gallop with the pulse on the left.
And yes, sometimes he does two strokes in a row, or sometimes just a ghost note (space or pause). Because the feel is in triple meter, it's easy for the math to work out. Ultimately, listening to Joe and exploring this pattern will answer your questions. It's all in there! There's no secrets hand movements or magic, just the same basic patterns (with Joe's incredible execution).
I really wish the congas were recorded at least with a shure sm57
Sounds great to me. Some of my old recordings are on a Sony Walkman! I'm just glad I got the footage. Pure gold.
@@scottnicolow such an amazing footage, but still it doesn't sound good really, theres a lot of distortion. Hope you guys can record something in a proper way
Ironically, I think this recording actually was done with a Shure sm57.
We did those recordings almost twenty years ago. Joe has been gone for over ten. Any other suggestions?
You are welcome for me giving you access to this phenomenal Conga Master.
Why is he not using traditional terms?
I think the easiest answer is that he probably doesn't know the terms. Guys who came up through the 70's were largely informed by R&B and Jazz. Getting to traditional and folkoric vocabulary was a TOTALLY different animal back then. There was no youtube, and you couldn't just put on 1000 different videos of guys talking about Abakua or Columbia. I would guess he had to ape the feel until he got it together. This is like someone who had to learn a foreign language just by living day to day in the country, and not going to school for the grammar. You can get REALLY fluent, but probably always have some structural stuff wrong. And I mean... there are seasoned native players who still mess up a clave, so... who's counting at that point...
My theory is that this is what really made the GoGo vibe of DC in the 80's what it was. And I think that's why Miles went after it as hard as he did.
I think if Joe was 30 years younger he WOULD have learned all the traditional rhythms and everything. He has a great sense of what the aesthetic of the time is, but he is missing a lot of details with the actual rhythms. I could be wrong, but I would guess he wouldn't have any idea how to play Guarapachangeo. BUT he comes really close because he has really dialed himself into the sentiment of it.
@@RiccardoPearlman It's like you didn't even hear Joe play. th-cam.com/video/jsEWKqTxRc8/w-d-xo.html
@@scottnicolow Eh... you might want to holster your gun there dude... Joe isn't a wilting flower and doesn't need someone to stan for him.
The other commenter asked about traditional terminology, and I ventured a guess as to why he wasn't really about that. Does that make him an inferior player of some sort? Of course not. And I don't want to start a whole thing in the comments, but your video doesn't really change that fact.
I see a mostly correct guaguanco. And forgetting the screwed up clave up front, I see Joe playing some lovely stuff on quinto that is absolutely in the vein of that style. But it sure as hell isn't traditional. But also who cares? That doesn't seem to be where he wants to be. And again, this all kinda supports my observation of where he's coming from as a player. I don't really see a guy like Joe knowing all the gory details of playing proper rhythms like guarapachangeo or columbia or whatever else. That said I think he could sit in those rhythms and have the right vibe and play beautifully. I like to think of it more like speaking a language with the right overall syntax but a heavy accent. Could converse with whomever, but maybe not in a place to teach english grammar or something. But not even that, because he seems like he's fine as a teacher. But my guess is you wouldn't study with him to learn those traditional rhythms.
I mean shit- even Don Elias, who COULD play traditional stuff spent his time in a vibe closer to Joe's. His rhythms weren't like 100% anatomically accurate, as it were. But his vibe was fucking beautiful. So like... yeah... I hear him play. He sounds great. But not legit compared to I dunno, munequitos de mantanzas or something. Fine. Nobody fucking cares :)
And not to belabor the point, but even guys like Anga ventured away from the trad stuff. He killed with Irakere, and he was homies with Tata, but he was also digging into jungle drum and bass before he died....
Dude is talking with his hands,lol.Go to many places in Africa,particularly West Africa and see how the musicians talk with their hands playing these same LP,Toca,etc congas and tell me what's "traditional " technique.The concept of Cuban Rumba and conga technique came from Africa first....
Según la cultura musical de Cuba su nombre es tumbadoras no congas.
Las únicas conga que existen son las de santiago de Cuba.
Es un baile tradicional no un instrumento musical.
A rose by any other name is a rose. Here in the U.S we call them congas.
If you only knew how often people call them "bongos". Shoot, they even call my djembe a bongo.
@@scottnicolow
Están invitados a visitarnos jijiji 😜
@@isidrorondon6982 Gracias
Zéro....
?
Uno...
Bla bla bla, bla bla bla😊
That's what your playing sounds like.
Well , how is the gallop played now ? Excellent player, but not a teacher.