Must Watch- Atheist questions a Sikh #2 of 2 - Cambridge Street Parchar
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- #2 of 2 - Street conversation between an atheist and a Sikh, both of whom studied at Oxford University. Recorded on the streets of Cambridge as part of Street Parchar with the Sikh Societies of Cambridge and East Anglia University.
Basics of Sikhi is a project by Everythings 13, an educational charity dedicated to spreading the wisdom of the Sikh Gurus. Please support our work - bit.ly/1cRKGdz - Whether its £5 a month or £50, all will go towards parchar and NOT building funds.
Vaheguru Simran in the Intro and Outro is how Sikhs chant Gods name. You can download it for free from www.thekdp.com (Jam 2, track 6).
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You have to appreciate the open mindedness of Christoph, not many can stand in the street for one hour while someone else teaches them about another religion.
Gurpreet Singh good point, many Atheist are kinder in conversation than the religious.
This is exactly what we need - dialogue and understanding.
Bhai Jagraaj Singh ji.. What a beautiful person you are! ! More I listen to u more I fall in Love with Waheguru and His Sikhs Like U :)
Amazingly withstands the test of time n remains relevant 6 to 7yrs after the conversation... speechless.
Ahaa what we have now is the basics of sikhi video of the year 2014....:-)
This video really meets the motto that is Arm yourself with knowledge. ......#feelingstrong#feelingarmed
Totally agree. To me, this video was the whole channel in a perfect nutshell.
jugraj singh brought me back to sikkhi now I am following rehat and mariyada of nihung Singh tarna dal
Vaheguru - great video (very good questions from Christoph, and equally brilliant answers from Jagraj Singh)
Really good video. Thanks for sharing, man.
We are not enlightened enough on our own to make something out of nothing. But chanting the name of the sole supreme being brings us closer to the one without form who is everywhere, the eternal force that surrounds everything around us and beyond us
I really enjoyed hearing the conversation. Hearing Jagraj SIngh speaking using logic makes so much more sense to me than any other person in the Sikh world. Sikhism is very much about creating a harmonious living area for everyone without any question. No one would ask about your caste, creed, color ,sex , nationality or any other man made bifurcation. I believed that person was an atheist because in true essence an atheist is any person who asks the validity of everything based on logic and morality. An atheist would follow a religion if he is convinced that whatever is being spoken to him makes sense to him on moral, logical and ethical ground not like Bill Maher who is a kind of fanatic atheist according to me.
"...Bill Maher who is a kind of fanatic atheist according to me."
Bill Maher advocates equality between people of different religions and those of none, he also advocates seperation of religion and state (i.e. tax money shouldn't be used to promote religion, it should be spent on neutral activities). Fanatical? I guess MLK was fanatical too then eh. May as well call him an extremist militant baby eater while you're at it.
TurboDally From what I know Bill Maher promotes equality and logical reasoning . But I have a problem with the enforcing way he uses. I mean one should not force his opinion down some bodies throat even if the other person refuses to accept it. I mean if he doesn't want it then why give him.. This is same thing I hate about zakir naiks videos. He too downgrades the other religion and shows his religion to be better . religion is a way of life and like society it depends on a lot of geo - socio-political scenario of the place. So whether you follow a religion or don't follow it that's up to u to do it your way without suppressing rights of other religion. That's why I am not a big fan of Bill Maher
I mean one should not force his opinion down some bodies throat even if the other person refuses to accept it."
How does he "force it down your throat"? Does he do it by expressing his opinions for everyone to see, or does he do it in a way that uses government to enforce equality?
"This is same thing I hate about zakir naiks videos."
Naik advocates murder of those who leave the religion, prohibition of the construction of temples, churches, diminished rights of religious minorities- none of which Maher advocates.
"He too downgrades the other religion and shows his religion to be better . religion is a way of life and like society it depends on a lot of geo - socio-political scenario of the place."
Religions were made by human beings, some religions WILL be better than others on certain issues or overall, propaganda DOES exist for sure where lying is involved, but I'm still curious or not where you get the idea that Maher is forcing his opinion down another persons throat.
"So whether you follow a religion or don't follow it that's up to u to do it your way without suppressing rights of other religion."
Which is exactly what Maher advocates.
"That's why I am not a big fan of Bill Maher"
None of what you've said makes sense, maybe try explaining?
Concerned with "now and here", the Sikh way of life leads us straight to our goal--- the realization of God within us. We can find God and be united to him not after death in some unknown region but "now and here", in this very life. There will be no more delusion, no more sin. We get celestial peace, bliss and joy ever-lasting "now and here" in this very life. . . . . . Sikhism is thus a world affirming and a not world denying philosophy and religion.
Dr. Edward A. de Bittencourt.
This guy is the future.
He passed away
@@AmritSinghKhera Yet he left his legacy of peace and message of god his life was worth the tym he spent.
Beautiful conversation
you go god comes, may allah waheguru bless you
I'm definitely sure the guy will try at least the meditation part because he should be satisfied by the idea that we can't see the whole 'world' with our eyes only so we should use all our sense at full potential to know what is really going on around us.
Science can't prove the everything based on its current principles, rules or whatever it is, because this is what we can only feel and it can be achieved only by an individual, it is not like science that if I know this or I've experienced this so I can prove it to you.
we could show the path only, it is up to that person whether to find the 'real' truth or not.
Waheguru
I feel like I just meditated for an hour ❤️🙏
he said it was problematic for him to call god he but I think he just seems much better then calling it 'it' because you are making god into a object
it - can stay for anything really, isn't that the essence of Sikhism? i mean depending on how you use English some words can sound weird i guess. In my opinion as an atheist, i don't mind calling a god, a he/she/it or even having more gods it's the same to me so yeah... i believe that reflecting on nature and self can give you many psychological benefits though. Good luck!
he can be "it" too because he is everything.
@@Tlion2102 That's just the start , something much greater than that however it's up to the person whatever they want to do to find peace / tranquility
Languages vary. In Panjabi, there is in fact only one pronoun to refer to both animate and inanimate things: "ਉਹ", pronounced something like _woh._ "He, she, it, they", are all conveyed using this word. Gender and number are conveyed via conjugation of other words. Although the Sikhi concept of god lacks gender, male grammatical gender is used, as in e.g. _vahiguru ji _*_ka_*_ khalsa, vahiguru ji _*_ki_*_ fatahi._ As such, "He/Him" is probably the most appropriate pronoun to use in English, but there's nothing wrong with using "it" per se, other than the dehumanising connotation that the word specifically has in English.
The issue encountered with the conversation partner in the video is that the notion that _vahiguru_ is specifically male seems to have taken hold due to Jagraj Singh Ji using the word "He" as such. It would have been good for him to explicitly clarify that this is in fact not the case.
he said "why do you keep mentioning about mountain" may be he is not really able to understand English...
The argument that its childish to try and measure and understand the world through science and accept the results of science without judgment or prejudice was completely irrational. Surely if anyone is claiming that its all magic (building analogy) its a religious person not an atheist. If anyone is thinking childishly its the person that thinks the universe owes them an explanation or an after life, maybe people should try to rid themselves of their attachment to consciousness and things would become more clear. No one want to truly die, in the atheistic sense of the word. Maybe that attachment to some form of life which all religions seem to have is the final vice someone should rid themselves of if they are truly to attain nirvana.
In Sikhi we believe that if you do not attain God you are born again in an endless cycle of reincarnation. So it’s not the attachment to some form of life that drives the Sikh to experience and eventually attain God/mukti, it’s precisely the opposite.
@@jmuti54 but I'm guessing that after this phase you will be eternally conscious in gods presence after death? its still an attachment to consciousness although slightly more evolved and separated from ego than an Abrahamic faith. Maybe after life it just all ends, and you have to live your life correctly the first time as it is your only time. You should not do good for reward in the after life but because it develops spiritual purity/integrity and self respect in this life . Erikson's stages of psychosocial development kind of point to this as latter phases involve reflection. maybe its not the afterlife where integrity and a strong moral code reward you but in later stages of this life. The only life we have any evidence for at all.
@@kms50549 well, considering that the Guru teaches that attachment (along with ego, greed, lust and anger) must be overcome to achieve mukti, one who is “attached” to consciousness or some form of life will never achieve mukti.
Edit: I will also add that the Guru VERY often remarks how this human life is your only chance to live correctly (and attain God). Theoretically you will get another chance, but only after your soul has travelled through millions of other life forms life times to arrive back in human form. Effectively - this is your shot, don’t dawdle, don’t expect a re-do. Also, the way you describe the “reward” of the afterlife as mutually exclusive with spiritual purity, integrity and self respect is incorrect in terms of Sikhi. Spiritual purity IS the reward. You will not be “rewarded” if you have NOT developed spiritual purity, integrity and self respect in this life. Also, the experience of God isn’t exclusive to the afterlife, the Guru encourages us to connect with God in this life through meditation. I believe you are subconsciously conflating some thematic aspects of the Abrahamic afterlife with Sikhi.
The best explanation regarding the scientific approach towards spirituality was made by swami vivekananda in his book raja yoga.
Yeah, I don't believe the 'atheist' in this video is actually an atheist. The 'arguments' he provides sound too much like someone pretending to be an atheist without understanding that position.
I recognize that all atheists do not think alike. Trust me I get that.
With that said, there is a huge difference between open minded and what this 'atheist' is doing. I'm open minded. What he is doing is using theistic words and theistic arguments. It sounds like someone who doesn't understand the atheistic position and is only familiar with the theistic one trying to make arguments as an atheist, rather than an atheist who actually understands atheism making similar arguments.
***** Have you thought about him being educated?
By "educated" do you mean indoctrinated into believing/using clearly flawed and/or silly arguments - because if so, Yes, I think that is exactly what he is. Again, seems like someone who is theist, speaking as an atheist and making theistic arguments so that the other theist can just walk in and bat them away. Seems like the 'atheist' is a strawman they made as opposed to an actual atheist.
I could be wrong, of course, I'm not saying my suspicions are correct. It is entirely possible for an atheist to believe or ask questions as this 'atheist' did. But in my experience it doesn't ring as true or even likely that an actual atheist _would_.
***** He's not a straw man, I shook his hand and definintely looked like he was made of flesh and bones :) We just met him on the street as we were doing street parchar. He;s not a Sikh. I do agree that he;s very broadminded and actually I was surprised when after 40 mins when he said he is atheist as his questions and comments were not of that type. He wasn't put up to his though, he just happened to be there
Basics of Sikhi
I've been done with this thread for a while. I really do not care if he was a real atheist or not. He just didn't seem like one _to me_.
How can you mediate?
do you mean meditate? if so, just chant His name.
***** hey waheguru means Wonderful Teacher but teacher is referred to GOD only . Calling God as a Teacher Its not praying to our Gurus its praying GOD . Guru never asked or preached to pray them , only pray god and thanks our Gurus
2 hours at a single sit two times a day straight for months when i was 15 year old . At that time i used to feel like a man without water and only meditation releived me . Now I am trying to go back but very hard to control your mind . But when i was child i was soft from heart and it helped . It made me from a low scoring child in school to one of top . Actually i didn't knew Punjabi as i studied in a jain school So only meditation was making me insane . you need Gurbani , meditation and seva all together to be succeed . If you only recite gurbani you will become hard and angry , if only meditation you will become soft and want to cry and you can't do seva without inspiration from these two factors . Each thing is required .
I personally feel Gurbani doesn’t make you angry. It keeps your ego in check. Because just meditation as the jogis did can bring ego when they become powerful.But wow you are a blessed soul.
Their is no conversion in dharmic religions .
I have a quick point for the atheist mind regarding evolution. let's take a macaque baby as an example. When the ape is born, immediately it starts rubbing its mouth against the fur of its mother seeking to latch onto the nipple. Now this new life has not yet any experience or concept of milk. On the other hand a human baby would be "introduced" to milk by the mother after which the baby s mind would then start to learn, adapt and crave that sensation of drinking its mother's milk.
If the baby monkeys quest for milk is a result of evolution then wouldn't he also know how to climb a tree for fruit?
There is more at play here. the babys mind has been hardwired/ trained before birth regarding the concept of breast feed. If this isn't proof of existence of a mighty being then please someone explain the concept to me.
The Joey of a kangaroo goes even further when it travels from the womb all the way upto the mothers pouch and then climbs in all whilst being an undeveloped embryo. concisely or subconsciously these are acts are work of god.
Someone pls educate me.
> The baby's mind has been hardwired/trained before birth regarding the concept of breast-feeding. If this isn't proof of existence of a mighty being then please someone explain the concept to me.
It is merely a result of natural selection. At any given point in time, some proportion of the babies will have this instinct, and the rest will not. Each group has its own chance of surviving and managing to eventually reproduce based on whether they have this instinct or not, e.g. of those that have this instinct, perhaps 50% of them will eventually reproduce, whereas it may be only 5% for those that lack the instinct.
In the case of species unlike macaques, but like humans, where the parents provide/direct their young with/to food, these proportions are also influenced by the behaviour of the parents themselves, not solely by the behaviour of the offspring. For example, if a human mother is neglectful and doesn't feed her infant child, the child is highly likely to die, so the probability of reproducing is a function of the probability of one's parents being neglectful.
There is an excellent video demonstrating these principles in action called "Simulating Natural Selection", but the content creator Primer. You can find the video here on TH-cam by searching for it, but I won't provide a link here since TH-cam tends to automatically remove comments containing hyperlinks.
Namasté
I have a high respect for sikhism and sikhi, ...but I have to admit my respect has deminished a little after watching the first half of this video. This is the first time I have ever seen a seek display judgmental or self righteous oponions.
Dont get me wrong, I expect some level of bias when someone is preaching, thats not what bothers me... what bothers me is the level of ignorance on the subject of Atheism he is displaying. The 'atheist' in the video is being overly nice, he should have pulled him up on some of the nonsensical analogies that guy was making.
Could a representitive of 'Basics Of Sikhi' pease tell me the answer to the question the preacher dodged on Secularism? Did the guy in the video just not understand the question? ...As far as im aware it was a simple answer, which I assume would be Sikhism is in favour of Secularism, but the way he dodged it makes me wonder.
cheers,
i can't remember that being asked. The atheist guy asked about meditation. secular meditation, no religion involved. And that's alright for them.
modi doesn't have a hindu nationalist agenda, where did you get such a thought from? tell me one thing he's done in favor of hindus so far. whether sikh is a branch of hinduism or not is not the question. a bigger question is we have people like you walking the streets saying 'oh don't get me wrong, all religions are good' but at the same time 'oh he is a hindu, with hindu agenda, sikhs...? sikhs are freedom loving...they are independent' ....O idiot, there are numerous other priorities of the Modi Govt, least of all to curtail the independence of fierce sikh warriors
+kunal sharma Why are you acting on behalf of Modi?
You getting offended over him calling modi a Hindu nationalist tells me everything i need to know about you
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Waheguru