Deceiving Fate: How Focalors Tricked the Heavenly Principles (Genshin Impact 4.2 Lore & Speculation)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- SPOILERS for the 4.2 Archon Quest, "Masquerade of the Guilty." And also Kaeya's hangout, I guess.
What is fate? Furina put on an act for 500 years just to deceive the Heavenly Principles, or (ostensibly) the Primordial One. She restored authority to the Dragon Sovereign of Hydro. I also explain how Focalors made Neuvillette love humanity so eventually he would save Fontaine.
If a prophecy is the "history of the future," how do we avoid catastrophe? Nicole (the Mage N) had already given some insight during our quest with Scaramouche.
Here, I also explain the roles of Nicole (and maybe Barbeloth of even maybe Vedrfolnir) in saving Fontaine. I also discuss Veðrfölnir and the role they may have played elsewhere, and why Legend of the Shattered Halberd is IMPORTANT!!!
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Introduction
00:43 The Prophecy
05:29 The Deception
10:16 The Visionary
13:59 Closing Thoughts
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✨ Legend of the Shattered Halberd • Shattered Halberds, Ce...
✨ Kaeya Defying Fate • Defying Fate: The Choi...
✨Vera's Melancholy: The Future Saves the Past • “The Future Saves the ...
✨The Power that was Stolen • The Beginning and the ...
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Music
✨ HOYO-Mix: Love is in the Air; Quo Vadis; The Oratrice's Verdict; (Quo Vadis again)l; Pluie sur La Ville; Towers of Afrasiab; A Shard from Past Glories
✨ "Se Pone Caliente" by the U.S. Commercial Product Safety Commission (public domain)
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#genshinimpact #hoyocreators #genshinimpact #genshin #原神 - เกม
![The Archons vs The Heavenly Principles [Genshin Impact Lore and Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2TD53UbyLd8/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Archons vs The Heavenly Principles [Genshin Impact Lore and Theory]](/img/tr.png)
![[4.2] The Secret Of The Gnosis Isn't What You Think - A Genshin Impact Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7eSm5azgxU4/mqdefault.jpg)
"baptized with Neuvillette's dragon juice. God I wish that were me" REAL
Neuvillette's line "surely you know that i could never declare them to be guilty" hit me so hard when i first witnessed it. I was crying the whole time but hearing that really did something to me. I don't know why this quest has had the effect on me that it did. I think about it all the time. I've always enjoyed Genshin but now I am so, so glad I ever decided to play. Very few pieces of media have had an effect on me like this quest did. How lovely Furina truly is. It bothers me when people say that Furina will always be the archon in their hearts, how could you even want that. Her being "the archon" left her with nothing but an empty, lonely life with a greater burden to bear than any of us could ever deal with. She deserves to be separated from that ordeal. She deserves to be looked at as her own being while still being loved and respected for everything she sacrificed.
Neuvillette's character story 5 talks about how he doesn't have a constellation because fate is the present ruler's way of playing with living beings (he just picked one bc Sigewinne wants to read his horoscope lol)
Me: Well, Too Bad Bitch, Mohoyo wants people pulling on your ass multiple times.
I feel like the story somehow downplayed how crucial the manipulation of Neuvillette was in Focalor's plan. Being a dragon sovereign, he belongs to a system apart from the one Celestia set up ("Fate" being a part of said new, god-ordained system). Focalors set him up to adopt Egeria's cobbled-together, half-baked creations- a sovereign "completing" them in the manner that life native to Teyvat was originally created being one of the things Celestia didn't have the power or insight to predict. Even Traveler wasn't immune to playing into the prophesy, so Fontaine's problem really wouldn't have had a solution if Neuvillette didn't basically get Stockholm'd so he'd veto the ending once his full power was restored😆
ETA: omg linking the theater theme of Fontaine to Kaeya's lines!!! I VERY enjoyed
tbh I feel like Neuvillette's story quest addressed that a bit? It's certainly a shame though that AQ-only-players or dialogue-skippers won't see that. To your point, though, I feel like his love of humanity was conveyed ok through the previous AQs, but I get they could have emphasized a switch from apathy to sympathy or empathy.
also my hot take is that Kaeya's hangout may have foreshadowed Fontaine... but Fontaine may be foreshadowing Kaeya's story in the future. At least in terms of changing fate. aaaaaaaaAAAAAHHH
I imagine that if Celestia skipped the dragon war and went straight into creating Gods and humans, I believe that the original hydro dragon sovereign would have been the one to create the prophecy, because they got offended that egeria took the power of the primordial sea to create humans, so in this reality she would have pissed both Celestia and the original hydro dragon, and focalors wouldn't have any way to stop the prophecy
@@roozeveltfox Kaeya and Focalors playing the same chess game omg
@@davidjohnson8273 you know re: 4.2 personality change.... now that you mention it, that line at the end of the AQ where Neuvi is like "I wonder if your body has the same properties" felt kinda... ominous. Especially since it was said in his perspective? This is disregarding the voicelines, too. And yesterday I did the Fairy of Erinnyes quest which has also... opened up a lot of questions.
I don't have nay good answers yet but I'm definitely going to be thinking about this.
I think Focelor's plan would have gone as planned even without the Traveler, only with Neuvillette as the instigator, or some other person who's felt the pressure with the rising sea. The identity of the prosecutor didn't matter, only that the trial happened, which was all but assured from the start with Focelors' intentionally vague words to Furina setting her on the completely wrong path.
3:42 THANK YOU omg. Ive seen sooooo many people overlook the part when Neuvi says ''destroying the divine throne means..'', and then Focalors replies with ''returning your authority to you, of course'' and lotsssss of ppl still think its the gnosis that did that when Neuvi never even once said the gnoses are holding their authorities in the first place.
loved this video! celestia's gonna be really pissed when they realize their blunder and how their own actions & decisions resulted in the destruction of a divine throne and the rise of an ancient dragon sovereign. cant wait for Dain's quest and Natlan.
I men he did give the gnosis to the knave already indicating that the gnosis is not his authority and he still has the power even after that
@@Sakurastun exactly. they think he took the authority and gave Fatui what remains of it; the remains of the 3rd descender.😭
@@Sakurastun The key point to take from it was that the gnosis are NOT their authorities and are just (cursed) magical foci to enhance elemental power
Gnosis are celestia's way to watch over god's actions in a way. Focalors understood this, and took gnosis with her while she herself wasn't in her mortal form any longer.
@@peagames2002it was to power the oratrice
I think a huge reason why the prophecy didn't end in the death of everyone is because there was no god to witness it and I think that was Focalors' plan all along.
How I understood Nicole's message is that Celestia basically controls fate, but enforces that control through the archons and not by their actions per se, but by them just being there.
That's why someone that looks like Focalors sitting on the throne in Fontaine was enough for Celestia to not bother with Fontaine for 500 years.
Focalors knew she had to remove herself, but just killing herself wouldn't have been enough because a new archon would be chosen to take her place and thus the prophecy would still come true. The only person that could get the authority over hydro and not become a catalyst for Celestia was Neuvi, and that's why she gave the authority back to him, thus taking the power of Celestia over Fontaine's fate.
This also puts a dent in the Abyss Order’s plan to engulf the thrones!
Removing the hydro archon throne and losing the hydro authority is the worst act of rebellion that Celestia can face, all happened in Teyvat under Celestia's nose I mean they are literally above Fontaine.. Alarms should be ringing all over the sky, and as Celestia must be omnipotent and all knowing inside their realm they don't need to "witness" in order to react, the sustainer didn't witness the twin leaving she just knew and teleported to stop them. You can fool the fate that Celestia dictated but you can't fool Celestia themselves.. unless there is no Celestia anymore.
@@HyruIiacelestia is kind of dormant especially since cataclysm 500 years ago. That was also the time when traveller twins were stopped by 'sustainer of heavenly principals'.
Also there's a little mention about what happened after the userpur steal to the authority of elements from dragons. And how he with with another descender made gnosis and vision system. It's mentioned in Neuvillett's story in his profile, in the vision story.
@@HyruIia im gonna be surprised if celestia doesnt act on fontaine and we just move on from this especially now that a fully fledged dragon sovereign has taken the hydro authority back completely. If they don't act on it, then it's pretty sus.. they dont even bat an eye on the fact that the gnoses are being given to tsaritsa like candy despite her plan of rebellion.. 😭 Question is, are they just really confident or has something happened to them...
@HyruIia Nahida said that the destruction of a gnosis would wake them up which implies that they really are lying dormant at present. I don't think that they can even notice that the authority has been stripped from the hydro throne, because they couldn't even notice that 5 of the gnosis aren't where they are supposed to be, and gnosis are a direct link to Celestia.
Great video. Another angle to consider. Focalor "rules lawyered" fate. Anything explicitly stated in the prophecy would inevitably happen. Anything not explicitly stated was up in the air. Focalor, like a true lawyer, inserted her interpretation between the literal words of the text.
Given Fontaine's focus on the law, this is another aspect of this story's brilliance. The writers really outdid themselves.
I like what they did with Furina/Focalors.
Ei and Makoto were two people. One died, then the other created a new body and now lives inside a sword.
Rukadavata was one person, who then created a clone of herself.
(She just described it very unhelpfuly and confusingly. Seriously, so many people still think they are the same person. Or a reincarnation, or something else. Then she got reconned out of teyvats history to make it more confusing for people not paying attention. She still existed, just doesn't appear in history books or memories.
And Focalors was one person, who split themselves in half. Memories and divinity/ Spirit and body.
All decently different I'd say.
But I really hope the Pyro archon doesn't ALSO have a incredibly similar looking character to themselves as part of their story. Unless it's like mother/daughter but i think that might be Tzaritsa's gimmick
whatever might be but the twins theory that only one survives makes me think abt endgame with only one sibling surviving
I can imagine there are two Pyro Archons dueling themselves to death.The victor shall gain the Archon title and the loser shall turning to ash
Since the Tsaritsa is the god of love, it makes sense that celestia either took or killed her daughter. This is the strongest motive for someone to fight the heavens. So I agree about that gimmick.
There were theories that the theme of Natlan is reincarnation so the pyro archon might constantly be dying and being reincarnated
@@kamizakip3820i was also thinking something similar that the archon keeps dying so there’s always a new one it is the nation of war
You reminded me of what Nahida said in the last act of Sumeru’s AQ. Fate is the ultimate knowledge. Does it mean that knowing fate/prophecies allows you to know how to move in this world?
YESSS I FORGOT ABOUT THAT YESSSSSS!!!!!!!! AHHHHH
Sounds like a reference to the Travail chapter since you could say, in a sense, Dainsleif's monologue is a prophecy of sorts.
@@hermdudeugh i miss my man, hoping we get another archon quest with dainsleif 🫠
What about the theory that Venti has already released his authority to Dvalin in the cutscene following the latter's purification, after AFK farming whatever the Freedom equivalent to Indemnitium might be for multiple millenium as opposed to Focalors' 500ish years.
And if the Archon has to die for that too happen, he might have done that too back around the Cataclysm since the Mare Jivari sprung up around then and sounds like what might happen if a major Wind God died there, plus he's the only god we've seen be able to preview and interact with ghosts without them having to manifest themselves for general viewing first.
Natlan is looking very suspicious now... argh, another year of waiting!!
What‘s your source on the Mare Jivari existing since the cataclysm, I‘m curious?
@@drakensgreed2350 the talking stick if I remember correctly
@@samshug6053Apep is Dendro
So you're saying my boi Venti is already dead?? 😭
So basically the two Folcalors theory that we discussed was confirmed at the end. The one Folcalors was indeed in the Oratrice and her human counterpart was governing/playing the role
I love how it all comes back to Kaeya
I wonder what Celestial will do now. Nahida tolds us that breaking a single gnosis could enrage the Heavenly Principles. But i think its worse that now there are 6 archons in Teyvat instead of 7, and one dragon king restored. The perfect order of the world is unbalanced now.
Nothing has really changed from Fate's perspective. There are 7 kings on 7 heavenly thrones, regardless of WHOM they are. The Gnosis wasn't destroyed, simply donated to The Knave as the Sovereign had no use for it himself, his mere existence at full power denotes him as a god/ruler.
@@Rexhunterjthink op was referring to the destruction of the hydro throne. If destroying a gnosis would awaken and anger the heavenly principles, what would be the consequence of destroying a divine throne and losing the authority of hydro. And is celestia even aware of what's going on, after all there are now only 6 thrones, 6 archons and a restored sovereign
@@oceansreign3429Here's the thing, I think the difference is the gnosis, aka the eyes of God, is celestia's connection to the world while the throne was made specifically for the archon. The throne being destroyed is something that affects the archon and thus isn't something that affects celestia' but destroying the gnosis would be like blinding them.
I'm so excited for Natlan after 4.2 revelations. I'm betting with Shneznaya only 1 gnosis away from their goal, they will try to take it by force and war will be declared against the Fatui. I want to see several Harbingers getting thrown into the fray all together with Capitano at the lead, maximum destruction and mayhem!
ooo that'd be spicyyy! I feel like it could go a few different ways with Natlan, but I'm also excited, if for no other reason than that Capitano is KIIING
i mean the fact that they gave the name of capitano in natlan but didn't told us abt the name of pyro archon says to me that brother is a heck lot powerful however in this fontaine patch i feel we should get some more celestia's lore like a concrete evidence its just bits and pieces and there is only theories so if they put some important info atleast it will be amazing also about the new leftover areas around mondstadt liyue i feel they should release this is the best time
Maybe for a change THE TRAVELER will win the gnosis by war against the pyro archon? Then the Shneznaya Archon quest will be all about convincing the traveler to join the rebellion and give up the gnosis? Comsidering the slime theory (which by now is proven right) and Dains voicelines about Natlan - when pyro slimes die they explode causing secondary damage, and when the pyro archon shares this secret with the traveler it is because she has her reasons. I bet the secret she would share is the secondary explosion metaphorically, in other words !- the secret will make the traveler join the fatui. I think the traveler winning a gnosis will mark both his strength, ready to face the fatui who have god like powers, and will make it so that the story has to wait for the travelers journey through Shneznaya for the war to begin.
My half baked theory is that the only way the archon quest will not outright end at Natlan is if the fatui lose there. If The traveler gets the pyro gnosis instead of them its the perfect story nudge to have him reach snezhnaya to seek audience with the tseritsa
I can't wait for the rebirth of the Dragon King and Paimon's true identity.
When Mona talked about Visionaries I instantly remembered the blonde princess from Dragonspine, that civilitation was Norse-core too!
Focalors used the accumulated justice in Fontaine to sacrifice herself. This is fitting because it was "justice" that Celestia used to curse Fontaine in the first place. Focalors fate was possible to change because she is a god and the gods gaze was on Furina who is a mortal. The energy used is what I believe a combination of Pneuma and Ousia creating annihilation The Gnosis was never missing it was in the Oractrice therefore Celestia had no reason to be suspicious about what was going on in Fontaine. The Gnosis was used to create just like Zhongli uses his Gnosis to create Mora, this has 100 percent ties with Alchemy. Neuvilette is a consequence of the actions taken in Enkanomiya "a vishap taking form of a man with a cane" Focalors used this and made him the Iudex of Justice to help her mortal counter part to not reveal her grand scheme. In the beginning Neuvilette is indifferent to human fate, but Navias cry for empathy breaks through to him and he begins to see humanities conflict. Humans are born by the Primordial one - Phanes most likely a descender and by using Primordial counter parts to build humans, humans will always strive to understand their birth right and origin. However this is not allowed by Celestia but nonetheless inevitable because humans are curious by nature. This world also heavily implies that humans do not possess the ability to change their own fate almost like they had no free-will. It is therefore understandable why they try to ascend to godhood who at least has a chance to do so. Celestia is like parents that regret having a child and tries to lock them away in their rooom for as long as possible.
Love how everything circles back to The Shattered Halberd.😆 I'm curious as to whether we'll ever meet Skirk, or The Foul, or hear about Vedrfolnir again, or if Childe will tell us more about the 3rd descender when we get to Snezhnaya. This 4.2 AQ was amazing, both as a story and as a lore drop!
I'm starting to think Paimon is the 3rd descender.
@@gushernandez25I think that the sinner is the third descender. Skirk specifically said that it’s remains are cursed, and the abyss order is full of Khanriahians that are cursed to turn into abyss mages, lecters, etc. Remember last Dainsleif quest, Kaeya ancestor wasn’t an abyssling. Neither is Kaeya, Dainsleif, or Pierro, so that means there’s could be a different curse effecting the Abyss order than the Celestia cataclysm curse.
@@irisamanda3922 The reason why some people became monsters and others remained human but lost their sanity is because only pureblooded Khaenri'ahn's were cursed with immortality, the other citizens were all from the seven nations on the surface and were considered sinners, thus the transformation into monsters, the "stripping of humanity".
The curse placed on the citizenry is arguably cruel compared to the purebloods, but a human mind can only endure so many years of life and torment before it starts to fragment.
@@gushernandez25Wait, but it was established that the third descender is deceased and that the Hydro gnosis (If not all gnosi(?)) is/eare a result of the Third Descender..? Your theory would mean that we’ve been lied too? (Correct m if I’m wrong, someone)
@@willowtr33s If Focalors has the ability to deceive the Heavenly Principles and Rukkhadevata has the ability to destroy her own existence. Would it be possible that Paimon's true form is sealed away to prevent her from knowing her own truth? Maybe I am just overthinking it but usually a great story foreshadows what is to come. In the same way that Apep's debut in the story foreshadowed that dragons will soon start playing a major role in the story and Neuvillete filled that role fairly well and now Natlan might reintroduce the Dragon King.
7:53 i especially love this line lmao, you basically explained focalors' deception in this phrase, with an added layer of humour which makes the whole video just *chef's kiss*
Also really like how the story ties with fontaine's theme of drama and acting, basically Focalors was given a "script" (the prophecy) and she "improvised" with it to get a better than expected outcome.
And Nahida's "wisdom is knowing what you can change" - I'm definitely taking this advice to the real world.
I am very intrigued in the way Nicole and other "visionaries" describe the prophecies as in "history of the future," as like changing the future is similar to changing the past. Rewriting the future or avoiding fate will be as difficult as rewriting the past, and Scaramouche failed to achieve this.
If fate is this hard to avoid, then I wonder if Khaenriah's sin was actually attempting to change fate itself, not in the way like Focalors did, but really be free from predeterminism.
This sounds good but if the future is described in the same way as the past in Irminsul, if people are free from the prophecies in the future, theoretically powerful beings like the three Skirk mentioned can rewrite story in the past itself right? This is basically rewriting reality, destroying causality. Imagine if Scaramouche actually deleted him in the past successfully, what will happen?
Maybe fate is something like a fail safe to prevent such things to happen, but then how can we actually have the freedom of choices then? Burning Irminsul?
The last question is if the descenders are able to interfere and change fate or are they also the prison of fate in this world as well.
I don't have a good answer for any of your questions (yet), but I WILL say you're absolutely getting to an idea I want to dissect about Khaenri'ah. Between Kaeya's hangout, and Dain reflecting Nicole's words about hidden corners where the gods' gazes do not fall... I think there's definitely more to it. Still cooking though.
Your last question I can definitely give my opinion on though - I think the reason descenders (and maybe the gnoses by extension) are so special is that they are NOT affected by fate, because they are not a part of this world and not recorded by irminsul. They are the unknown variables, in my opinion.
"history of the future" but yeah.
@@GhostEmblem Thanks! This lore has been burning my braincells too much that I can't write anymore.
@@roozeveltfoxhope you read this, I think this guy theory is on to something because every game hoyo made have been about change one’s fate, if you play are of hoyo games or at least follow their plot you will see similarities between all of them, honkai 3rd part 1 has ended so it topic about changing one’s fate is very clear, Genshin with 4.2 archon quest starting to show this theme too, with HSR is that elio guy who can see the future and guide the stellaron hunter on quest to fulfill the best outcome for the universe like what kafka said, all and all every game main theme here to have the power or the will to be able to change one’s predetermined fate
I think it's too early to say that Focalors was able to outsmart Celestia and Heavenly Principles (HP).
Right now, we have no idea what's happening up there. Is anyone still up there in Celestia? Do they still care in the events happening in Teyvat? Why isn't Celestia and/or HP not doing anything to Snezhnaya/Fatui now that they have 6 of the 7 gnoses?
I did wonder why Focalor was taking such measures given that even Nahida seemed to know they've been asleep or absent. My reasoning, then, it's been out of caution. Like perhaps Celestia IS empty or super in a deep slumber, but given what Nabu Malikata warned in Flowers of Parardise Lost... perhaps better to err on the side of caution? no idea. This is a point I don't have a good answer for.
In my theory the Heavenly Principles is a system that is running automatically for Celestia at this point since they might be dormant for 500 years and just let some AI or something monitor stuff for them.
Celestia isn't the target of the masquerade. Once they curse someone it's fire and forget. They never have to worry if it hits the target because it always does. For example they say "it's going to flood" and they don't have to say why or how. So a random whale turns up. The whale has nothing whatsoever to do with gods, Fontaine, dragons, curses, sin - any of it. It's random. And after the dragon is killed you think, oh OK I guess no flood now then, right? No. Some other random nonsense turns up. "roiling energies" was it? And if they'd stopped that something else would have shown up. It's just the same as stopping the Inazuman blacksmiths dying. Remove Scaramouche from history and something random shows up to fulfill what's supposed to happen. Some random dude goes on a killing spree. And if he was stopped? Something else would have killed those blacksmiths. The fate system might as well be on auto-pilot -- and it's target is "flood Fontaine". That's what Nicole means by fate can't be changed.
But as for whether a cat or a bird breaks the vase? Oh yeah that can change. That's your loophole.
@@roozeveltfox
Thank you!! I love how even this can be connected to Kaeya and the Legend of the Shattered Halberd, they're truly everywhere.
What I'm most excited about is that the recent lore drops about the Gnoses might suggest that the Tsaritsa is trying to assemble and revive the Third Descender for whatever reason. Interesting how the next arc is called "Incandescent Ode of Resurrection" too.
Focalors/Furina is easily my favorite character now in Genshin. It’s not close. What a fantastic Archon Quest, honestly might be my favorite singular arc of any game I’ve ever played. Genshin’s story keeps getting more and more interesting, and it really is leading up to something special in the near future in my opinion
I will say, there is quite a few hints about how Fate works more in-detail in the last part of the Narzissenkreuz questline and it has some interesting implications.
yes - I just wanted to keep this video insular to the archon quest, if that makes sense. IMHO, NK stuff brings in at least 50 million different ideas for videos.
@@roozeveltfox That's very fair, this update alone dropped so much lore that trying to put it in a single video would probably make it 2hrs long haha
What I'm curious about is if this will influence the other Archons to do the same - especially the Geo Archon. Zhongli abdicated his throne, but the throne itself is still there, so there's a possibility of a new Geo Archon.
Venti and Ei were both absent at one point, but again the thrones were still there. Nahida has a truce with Apep the Dendro Sovereign but at the time didn't choose to destroy the throne - will she be up to doing so now that it's shown that it's possible?
(If the issue is time: Ei and Shogun had a 500 year battle backwards in time in a pocket dimension, when it was just a few days from our perspective. The samsara could have gone on indefinitely. There are options.)
The problem is that the destruction of the trhone require also the death of the archon so nahida and everyone else would be death if they break their trhone
The whole Fontaine arc made me think:
Could have Celestia/Heavenly Principles set up the fate of the whole Teyvat, from the beginning to an end, like a script? And the only interference that could be are from outside of Teyvat, so Abyss and Descenders? That could explain why Celestia never prevents abyss stuff but cleans after it, they literally can't predict when or where it will appear until it's too late, which could be why they never stopped Khaenri'ah from looking into Abyss in the first place.
This way, maybe constellations are the roles in the script that is "Fate" of Teyvat and when a person gets a vision, Celestia gives them their role that they can never escape after they get it.
Side thing i noticed, it's interesting that Paimon has 7 bronze things on her design that look like parts of statues of the seven (3 bottoms of the statue on each side and the crown kinda looks like the circle around fully leveled statue).
I may have 1 crazy idea. All the way back in Liyue we had two conversations with zhongli that seem very suspicious. One where he tells us he literally cannot speak to what happened in khaenri'ah, and another where he asks us to bear witness and preserve the history of this place. He speaks of mundane ways history can be altered and lost, but, in Sumeru we learned that history may not be as the world remembers it. 500 years ago, the Dendro archon made severe alterations to Irminsul to keep it from collapsing completely, and sacrificed herself in the process. in that same timeline the hydro archon died in the sumeru desert, and the electro archon died in khaenri'ah. I am starting to believe that the history we have been presented so far about this era, may be partially or entirely false. so many separate, independent crises, does not make sense. Either there must have been a root crisis the others flowed from, or historic crises have been fabricated to cover a gaping hole where something was ripped from history
Thank you for mentioning Vedrfolnir. Him and Surtalogi have been driving me insane. Also the “world ending sword” is interesting considering Surtalogi in norse mythology is the fire that Surtr uses to destroy the world. Maybe that’s connected too? Are they both going to bring about destruction in some way??
Now I have to rewatch your shattered halberd videos to fall down this rabbit hole more
Also, you mentioned the usurper is the heavenly principles but isn’t the usurper the primordial one? We got confirmation in Neuvillette’s character story that “the usurper” and “the one who came after” are two separate entities so i figured:
Usurper = Primordial One
One who came after = Celestia/Heavenly principles
Honestly we were given so much information this patch that I don’t know how to process 😅
Great vid as always, can’t wait for more theories
Thank you!
Okay, also, yes the PO is the Usurper, and this latter part of your message has a long history in genshin lore...
When I say Heavenly Principles/Usurper/Primordial One, I mean the same figure or entity or begin (or collective(?), even). When 'Before Sun and Moon' was released I was entirely convinced that the original PO was overthrown and the SWC took over and everyone was lead to believe they (SWC) were the true god or HP. But then when the Flowers of Paradise Lost Set came out, it seemed to confirm that the PO was first, SWC was second, BUT PO won meaning PO is also the current Heavenly Principles.
TBH with the new lore about the third descender I'm inclined to revisit all this. Sorry if that's messy, trying to summarize literally 3 years of thought evolution lmao.
@@roozeveltfox Ohhh okay that makes sense. I never read Flowers of Paradise lost and now I will lol. And, yeah the third descender really has added a new layer of questions.
I just rewatched some of your old theories and now I’m thinking: what if the halberds are related to the gnoses and not the celestial nails. If the nails were enough to take down Celestia, I’m sure the fatui would’ve been gathering those too but the cryo archon specifically wants the gnoses 🤔
@@cow9805 you know what's absolutely nuts?? around the same time i started my whole shattered halberd bullsh*t there were already theories about how LOSH was an allegory for the tsaritsa collecting the gnoses. I always thought they had merit, but I just wanted to explore other ideas.
but looking back it's like - if you had subscribed to those gnosis theories earlier, you actually wouldn't be surprised that the gnosis is human remains (since halberds are like, things, but also people). and NOW OBVIOUSLY it fits with the tsaritsa collecting gnoses a lot better in many ways.
it's kinda hard for my brain atm tho because this implies that halberds are descenders and by extension that means both fischl (not amy, actual fischl) and IRMIN are both descenders.
tl;dr look forward to my new shattered halberd book brainrot, lmao
There is a certain cryptic and important sword mentioned by Rene in the world quests which has part of the epocalypse and the end of the world formula.
@@davidjohnson8273....? Slightly confused here with your wording here, the hexenzirkel was already a thing. And the stated mission of it (from Lisa's voice line about Mona) is exploring irminsul. No reason you can't have a normal human on that list, just because they don't have the godlike ability of people like Alice and Rhinedotter. Especially when what we do see Andersdotter doing is writing stories with their encoding ability. She just had to take different precautions.
3:38 "baptized by neuvillette's dragon juice. Gosh, i wish that were me"
what 🤣🤣
Great Summary and insights into the 4.2 archon quest. Looking forward to more videos on the many things 4.2 shared with us. Thanks
love your videos for they are much less speculative than those from other lore enthusiasts and you give a lot of proof of the things you say without twisting it into your own personal canon. so thank you ❤
One bit from when the Traveller and co found the prophecy slabs, Paimon read a bit of a statement that hook itself in my mind. "Reason dictates..." What if that 'Reason' isn't logical deduction but 'The bearer of the Circlet of Logos decrees...' and the bit from Nahida on how the Prophecy was carved onto Irminsul was also an interesting detail. The Primordial One dictated the four events of the Prophecy and the world can not do anything in changing or preventing those four events for it is placed upon the World Tree itself...
The divine Halbert breaking into different segments for some reason makes me think of how the Gnoses are essentially different segments of the third deceased third descender. Given that books and records in particular are very likely allegories, I can see the Halbert representing the third descender.
Really, I can't wait to see your videos on all the other 4.2 lore content
I think you reached a nice formulas for your lore vids, I love them right now!
"Baptized with neurvillette's dragon juice, I wish that were me" me too sister lol
One of the good things about TH-cam Home recs, I get videos like this. I really love your analysis on the AQ and looking forward for more
(also that Paimon impression at 10:33 cracked me up)
(havent watched it yet but) Been waiting for a video like this...
EDIT: Beautiful video! I love the part about how focalor "changed" fate
I'd like to hear one more on the philosophical side side of this masquerade but Im not sure how much can be said.
Oh maybe an theatrical analysis of furina’s song!
There is so much that can be said about how the story quest ties into what she has been through, and why would the oceanid in the story end up choosing to sacrifice herself (and why Furina did too).
On top of that there can be many comparisons that can be made between Furina and Fichl, with the former having to act on purpose.
There’s this French story about a thief who after a misunderstanding, is forced to put on a mask and masquerade as a gentleman to avoid getting caught in front of the princess. Untill a point where after putting the mask on for so long, the face he wears eventually becomes the mask of the gentleman he was masquerading as
Big fan of the Paimon impression
I bet that the Heavenly Principles won’t be all too pleased with the fact they were deceived and that the punishment they handed down to Fontaine was circumvented and avoided but they won’t be able to really do anything now that a Sovereign regained their full power.
This is why some (like me) speculate a live nail drop in a future update.
I mean what's stopping them from dropping another nail?
Nahida did say that the Heavenly Principles have been silent for many years… I really wonder what’s happening with them that they’re not dropping any nails or doing anything straight up
@@azutsukimiya Doesn't Celestia only drop nails when the abyss starts leaking out into Teyvat and they use the nails to close it?
@@TheGeekyRedMagethe Abyss and "Forbidden Knowledge" are two different things. Forbidden Knowledge is knowledge that came beyond the skies of Teyvat. While the "Abyss" has already existed since the dragon's sovereign era. The stuff that poisoned the minds of people is the Forbidden Knowledge, not the abyss. Certainly this knowledge came from a descender.
There are so much information within the archon quest that even myself dont know to start for making the videos.
Your take about propehcy and connecting to Kaeya and khaenriah thing is absolutely smooth, it makes me wonder if there's teyvat version of prophecy, i mean the large scale of Teyvat itself somewhere. Perhpas it is just a samsara thing, but idk, i dont have any backup sources to prove it, but it would be cool tho.
Aside that, I personally still can't understand how Focalors' deceiving fate works, well, i mean partially, i understand that, but i feel like i miss some part of it, like how Celestia doesnt notice it afterwards....
Overall, it is really impressive that you make the video so early here XD, i guess your enthusiasm about Kaeya so that high XD
Baptized in his dragon juice is probably the best line of this vid. And thanks for making me spit out my coffee at work....😂
pinned comment for any additions or corrections!
edit 1: there should be cc now!
8:10🎉
People did dissolve, even if not in the major flood.
People dissolved in Posson (idk how to spell that), so technically even if it was a requirement that people dissolved, it did happen. (People also dissolved due to Vacher using primordial seawater)
Skirk says to Neuvillette that "the prophecy should be in full swing", which can give the room to doubt if the prophecy was already happening, (meaning people already dissolved and the prophecy had already started).
I'm looking forward to the Dain's quest, I think we'll dive into the abyss stuff & fate more.
But concerning the quest: the throne of the hydro archon is destroyed, why haven't it awaken the heavenly principles tho? we now have a dragon sovereign taking his authority back from them, so why haven't they shown up?
A great question. Considering Zhongli stepped down from his job as archon after "being murdered" and the heavenly principles did nothing, i bet an archon strpping down isn't something that wakes them. And so long as the prophecy comes to play and fate isn't involved i guess Furina's act was meant to catch the eyes of the heavens while folcalor dies.
@@mizrahiomr yeah, but then furina as the archon disappears and the freaking dragon takes back the hydro elemental authority , which means it's no longer under Celestia's, or anyone else's control, right? so what is gnosis then? is it not the source of the "advanced" elemental power? venti said it's something like an advanced vision and if destroying it leads to awakening the heavenly principles, then why not the power switch between an archon & the dragons? (I guess, archons are the new "rulers" who were installed in the position of power by Celestia instead of the dragons, but again, why doesn't anyone care about Dragons regaining their powers?)
like, yeah, Celestia doesn't care about archons and how they rule over their respective lands as long as they don't threaten the heavenly principles, but c'mon!
and also, the prophecy of the flood was supposed to be a punishment, no? the "not real" humans created by egeria were supposed to be returned to their original oceanid forms via drowning and dissolving their "gifted p human bodies" and thus teaching others the lesson about the punishment for daring to create life without Celestia's permission, but at the end of the quest, Neuvillette eliminated the final verdict and cleansed the people from their "oceanid blood" by taking the primodial water out of them and making them fully human. isn't it a direct opposite of what Celestia wanted? yes, the prophecy has been fulfilled but the punishment hasn't. so, why aren't they here to punish those who opposed their judgement? that's pretty interesting huh. it's either Celestia doesn't care or there's nobody there who's been left to monitor Teyvat while they are "sleeping".
sorry for my rumbling, I hope it's clear what I wanted to say 😭
@@noxmoonstonemaybe we don’t know anything about celestia or the heavenly principles. It could have its own goal in mind the way the abyss order and tsaritza does.
Your Paimon impression was hilarious!!! I loved it!
There is one question i still have. Why didnt focalor play furina herself? Why did she had to hide herself? Yes i know she had to accumalate power to destroy the throne of the hydro archon but the power was still stored in the oratrice right? The power could still be sensed by other powerfull beings (like neuvilette or celestia) so im kinda confused cause the whole point kinda fades here. Can someone please explain why it was SOOO nessecary to let furina play the role of the hydro archon? i really want to understand and cant find an answer
A lot more entertaining than your other videos idk why
"Gosh I wish that were me". That killed me😂
It's how now Neuvilette possibly is in charge of handing out Fontaine vision and since he's in full mastery of Pneumosia, the vision is hybrid and the one who got it in line first is Furina
I love your informative real voice not AI content. SUBSCRIBED!!
honestly since all the irminsul shenanigans in sumeru, I’ve been suspecting that celestia’s not as omnipotent as it wants people to think it is, and I’m beginning to suspect that just as “fate” traps the people below it in a sense defines what exactly celestia has the power to affect. after all, there’s so much emphasis on the stars telling fate - the stars that would theoretically be in fixed positions on the dome that celestia’s put in place - and these stars rarely ever fall, judging by the lack of meteor showers. if everything must follow a plan, then things cannot be changed easily.
this was really good. and thanks for the advice about smoke detectors XD
Honestly i feel like focalors didnt actually fool them. If anything, her saving fontaine was "fated" just like the prophecy was. I'm actually worried that her destorying her seat may have been in someone else's best interest. We still have no idea who wrote that prophecy and why
Celestia is the enemy of humankind, fate is a shackle meant to keep humankind in the prison called Teyvat. Destroying a throne and giving a Sovereign whom loves humanity back its authority is a good thing.
@@Rexhunterj we don't have enough information to confirm any of that. How exactly can we know when "fate" begins or ends? Nicole was very aware of what focalors was doing, who knows who else was aware?
@@Rexhunterjthe sovereign don't love humanity if anything in the start they precisely tried to avoid the creation of the humanity done by the first celestia and always this first celestia loved truly humanity to a point where they would'nt be happy if humanity wasn't happy too
By the way, I just realized that the people of Fontaine are still a little different from the rest of the people in Teyvat. As Nuvillet said, he was able to complete them by controlling the water of the primordial sea in their bodies (which Egeria once put into their bodies), which is why Fontaines are considered thieves... So, by “completing them,” Nuvillet still did not separate the water of the primordial seas from their bodies, it is still there, and they are still “thieves”, and some dude like Narwhal would still want to OMNOMNOM them, if had a chanse.
what do you mean, he grant them true blood, that primordial sea water is basically replace by true blood
@@amieldelacruz7010 yes, but... He said that he used primordial water in there bodies to compete them and give them the real blood, but what with the primordial water that was there? Did he convert primordial sea in the real blood, or used it as a catalist to make it?
@@vampiranya9939 I think that was probably the case,
All life in tevat are base on primordial seawater, or so I conclude
@@vampiranya9939 I am not sure if that was the specific thing that happen, thou about the 'thieves' thing you mention, if they died do they go back as Oceanids, or actual ghost like any other human, the afterlife thing has many interpretations on every region, monsdstadt has no ghost, the other so far seems to have, and fontaine now probably turn to Oceanids, I just don't know the differences anymore, except how the afterlife works for them
"I just realized that the people of Fontaine are still a little different from the rest of the people in Teyvat."
Uhhh... not really? All (human) life in Teyvat was created with Primordial Seawater. The "blood" in them were created from transformed Primordial Water then. Fountainians were incomplete humans before Neuvillette completed the "contract" so to speak, which is why Primordial Water was able to dissolve them prior. You can think of it as the sealing of the blood with the human body, the "container" one may say, being incomplete so it was easy for the Primordial Water to "spill" out and mix in with the seawater, and it was only when Neuvillette was able to transform the Primordial Water into their "true blood" that the body was able to form to completion.
That's uhhh... the best way to describe it anyways. It doesn't exactly make sense if you think regarding human reality, but Hoyo constructed the world of Teyvat with heavy inspirations of religion and mythology, so think like that but don't more literally in Genshin's case ig. That said, they are different from other humans in one way and that's from how their evolutionary line is different from other humans since they evolved from Oceanids to humans. Which actually brings into question on whether humans were born straight out of Primordial Water or, like the Oceanids that evolved, were once another race who than evolved into humans because of Celestia (whoever was ruling at that time that is).
As for your comment, "some dude like Narwhal would still want to OMNOMNOM them, if had a chanse." I thought it was stated that the Narwhal very much eat until planets are destroyed (they are essentially "world eaters"), particularly because of their unending hunger for Primordial Water (and perhaps something similar? not sure if it's just Primordial Water then consume). So yeah, I suspect that the Narwhal would still like to eat them, as for everyone in Teyvat. lol I suspect the reason they went to Fountaine in particular was because the Primordial Water in Fountaine people was clearer to sense since their bodies were incomplete.
"since they've basically been baptized with Neuvillette's dragon juice. Gosh I wish that was me" no more relatable words have been spoken
I will probably no make sense but since I start the game the first theory my sister talk about was a theory about slimes. And the theory was telling that slime represent the archon. And I thought that make sens because of the electro one. They were two, Ei and makoto. But before Fontaine the hydro one already had horn. Like the condensed elemental energy in teyvat already know at the end a dragon will end up with the hydro authority. And for the electro I realize it’s Ei and the Raiden. Not Ei and Makoto. If that correct, that mean Folcalor never fool Celestia ? And in the way it was already written right in front of us since the beginning
fontaine have outsmarted your outsmarting
There's also the implication that focalors could not simply just give back the hydro authority she knew she had to die in order for her to give it back. That implies that Celestia would have had a problem with her returning the hydro authority free of will.
4:38 WAITTTTTT......same
I legit cried and screamed like my nation won World Cup when based af Focalor revealed her plan. Then I obviously cried because of the cutscene..
I am SOOO hyped for Dain quest also I speculate that we won’t have Furina Quest no2 but Neuvillette’s since he is kinda/basically “archon” of fontaine now.
Suck on that Celestia 😌
Edit: what I am still confused on is what then Pierro said in Winter nights Lazzo about “taking authority from the gods”? I mean now they can’t get authority of hydro (even with the gnosis) because the authority is back to Neuvi? If the authority is not what they are collecting with the gnosis that only means they know that the gnosis are parts of the 3rd descender, I guess?
Could the whale be owned by someone in celestia? It had a central role in making the prophecy come true. But I think someone that is powerful to be Skirks master and presumably aligned with the abyss or at least against celestia would just let them use their pet in their machinations. Or maybe they just didn’t care? Maybe celestia and the abyss aren’t as different as the make themselves/ are made out to be.
I personally don't think the All-Devouring Narwhal was 'sent' by Celestia; if they had that power, they wouldn't have waited millennia. We also know Childe was responsible for awakening it.
The way I see it, the prophecy didn't warn of an act of deliberate ultimate penance against Fontaine. It basically just said, 'Look, Egeria, you may have defied the Heavenly Principles, but only in a way that's doomed to come crushing down at some point. Your creation is impure, and therefore it cannot last. No matter when, no matter how, something will eventually happen to return this land and these people to the seas.' The awakening of the All-Devouring Narwhal simply happened to be the thing that triggered this doom.
The prophecy didn't necessarily specify what would happen. A whale or something else would have rose to make the prophecy come true since it is the "history of the future" and you can't change it. The way I see it is that the whale was just one of the many catalyst that would happen. Skirk was pet sitting the whale for her master but she might have lost track of it at some point which coincidentally triggered the prophecy...
My daughter thinks that Skirk’s master may be Pierro. He was Khanriahian’s high mage, and would have known Rhindotar, and possibly have been part of the Hexenzen Circle. We know that Rhindotar was pulling creatures out of the abyss, so it could be Pierro did the same thing with the all devouring Narwhale. We also know that the Fauti have been sending the Harbingers into the Abyss to search for something, according to Wanderers voice lines. Also was I the only person that noticed the Narwhales humanoid form looked suspiciously like a antimatter legion solider from Honkai StarRail?
It’s literally like none of y’all read the archon quest lol her master is Surtalogi aka The Foul and it literally makes no sense for Childe’s master’s master to be affiliated with Celestia (Celestia has been asleep for 500 years btw) or the Fatui they are clearly deep in the Abyss seeking a form of perfection
@@lc53788 you are correct, but to be fair many of those things are not stated explicitly in the Archon Quest. People are also prone to forgetting things mentioned in other one-time quests from years ago. Let's not chastise people for wanting to learn.
Focalors deceive the same way as Steins Gate Operation Skuld.
I do like this video and all the insight of the different aspects of Focalors plan however I do want to add something that might change things depending on it Hoyo planes to expand on this, and that's the identity of the one who made the Stone Tablets, who made them?
The story presents them of being Celestial in origin and this does make sense since not only does it seemed to be a physical depiction of the prophecy but also things to come, the 3rd showing the people of Fontaine putting the Hydro Archon to trial and the 4th being the prophecy in question. However if you actually think on the contents and how they may connect to Celestia this doesn't seem too work.
I have lots to say but in the interest of keeping this short I'll simplify it, Celestia doesn't have any reason to write the Prophecy since all the contents of the prophecy contains is what will happen, " Fontain will be flooded and the people will be dissolved into the water, the Sin will be washed away leaving the Hydro Archon alone, weeping on her throne." The prophecy WILL happen and everyone in fontain KNOWS the contents despite no one knowing how they know so writing it down in a stone tablet is unnecessary.
There's also the question on when the tablets were created? was it before the Egeria committed the sin( the first tablet) or was it after the Heavens pronounced their judgment( the second tablet)? if it was Celestia who made them then neither options are really possible, the former would imply they knew what Egeria was about to do and did nothing and the later would again be unnecessary and a waist of time. However if someone else, who wasn't connected to Celestia) was the one who made the tablets then either option would be equally possible and would still work towards the same goal. I could go more on this but again in the intrest of keeping this short I'll skip to the point.
I think the person who made the tablets actually made them for the purpose of helping whoever would find them understand the truth of Fontain's past and Sin, more specifically the ones who will find them in the future( in comparison to when this all started) Focalor knew why they were being punish since she was once Egeria's Oceanids. The Fact that the tablets were not discovered for god know how long is very telling, especially since it's in Poisson. the only way for the first two tablets to be useful would be if the reader didn't already know Fontaine's past, just like Modern day Fontainians.
Another interesting detail about the tablets is that the Hydro Archon depicted in the 3rd and 4th is Furina not Focalor and the implication of this is big, either Celestia knew that it would be Furina on the throne during the prophecy and let it happen or someone else knew that Furina would be on the throne at the end.
I'm repeating myself here but I have much more about this idea and I could esasily go on more, however I don't feel like writing even more then this and I'm sure you get the point I'm trying to make, am I overthinking this or am I on to something?
I’m very excited to see where Genshin’s story goes I’m very interested in the Heavenly Principles and Celestia in general, I hope we will be able to find out more.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on who the 3rd descender is, idk if it's me being slow and missed it or if it legit wasn't revealed before but the bombshell that the Gnosis are the remains of the 3rd descender was wild. I feel like "remains" could be interpreted in a couple ways like is it the literal remains of the body that have been twisted by Celestia or is it the remains of their work ect?
Anyway, love the video and work you're doing, keep doing your thing.
Didn't it mention the word 'corpse' though? That would make 'remains of their work' not fit well.
I only heard it from Neuvillette at the end of the AQ and I don't remember the word corpse being used, just remains, but again, I could be wrong@@Elrog3
@@SirKnasher I reviewed the dialogue by Skirk. She never used the word 'corpse'. So that interpretation is still up in the air, though it seems less likely to me given the way it was talked about. Maybe things being talked about in slightly strange ways is a thing in Genshin though due to translation issues? I am a new player so I don't really know.
10:30 welp, if you ever need a stand in voice actor for Paimon during special circumstances, you know where to find one Hoyoverse!
What I don't get is how Focalors knew it would take enough years that she could gather sufficient Indemnitium. Was it just a gamble that Furina wouldn't be sentenced too early to gather enough energy?
i feel focalors somehow knew abt everything and i feel that prophecy to happen there has to be an element and that being traveler in tevyat i mean its obvious that wherever we go the nation is going to have disaster and we protect it and at the end if the trail of furina with traveler fighting a trail against furina then nothing would have happened i feel after he did everything played like it was to
ever furina said tevyat is a giant play and they are actors and traveler is a spectator
i think she just gathered until it felt like the prophecy was about to be fulfilled, she tried to delay it for example, judging Childe wrongfully. The rising level of Primordial Sea, the flooding of Poisson, and the fulfillment of the prophecy based on the tablet that Freminet brought were sure signs that the Prophecy was about to happen. The last one was the appearance of the whale. By that point, Focalors must have decided to carry out the judgement so Neuvillette can gain his authority back on time to defeat the whale and turn the Fontainians to real humans.
im thinking that with fate and prophecies, evenwith the metaphor of a broken vase, its like having a broken vase ijn a bajillion pieces or a "broken" vase cut cleanly in two that after the propheciy has been fufilled, can just be stitched back together
Thank you for the video! I finally understand why it's okay for the Fontainian to not be dissolved at the end!
The original sin is using creating Fontain people from primordial sea, hence the punishment would be returning the primordial sea from the peopl. Before, since Fontainian "equals" to primordial sea, this would mean them getting dissolved. But now, thanks to Neuvi deleting all the primordial sea water in the Fontain people, the punishment is considered done and all the people are saved.
But I still wonders, does the Heavenly Principles know that there is no Hydro Archon anymore? And if yes, I don't think they are okay with this outcome cause it obviously broke the Seven that they created. So are we expecting another punishment from them?
4:38 his dragon WHAT
With the Celestia hovering above Fontaine, I thought that they were closely monitoring the prophecy coming true, but then they got deceived and their prophecy did not happen. But even if they did get deceived, what is stopping them from "punishing" Fontaine or Neuvillette just like they did with Egeria? Or even, doing another Khaenria if Neuvillette did try to stop them from enforcing punishment?
"gosh i wish that were me" ur so real for that
Fontaine archon quest so good, wonder if we'll get a interlude chapter
I think Mage N is Focalors acquaintance/friend. It feels like she knows that focalors is doing and might have been the person who suggested this to focalors.
"God I wish that were me" KATIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
The Paimon impression is stellar.
Peak analysis
There is someone who has been and also not been introduced.
Who fall into the category of The Visionary: Vedrfolnir
In the Pale Princess and Six Pygmies Vol. 7
The final installment brings everything to a conclusion, and (includes the Night Mother's prophecy.)
If it is the Night Mother that means The Abyss is above Teyvat and Celestia is below. My theory that in order to ascend and leave this place you actually have to go down.
"What's up is down and what's down is up" I talked about this with my friends when the game came out on 2020 because of Patema Inverted.
seeing an archon directly bash the heavenly principles was so liberating. i’m so excited to see how this changes how the archons view the world order and maybe persuade them to speak up.
Heavenly Principles: I sleep
LMFAO I screamed when you said "Neuvillette's dragon juice... gosh I wish that were me" XD hahahah
Great video!
It seemed like furina was is almost at her breaking point
Lmaooo when you brought up dain and Nicole for some reason my brain went “is dain apart of the hexinzirkel?” 🤣
Yoo let’s go! Awooo!
One part I must say about this though, I am assuming that even though the worst case for the two methods of fate happening in fontaine is when people dissolve, it is exactly what the heavenly principles really wanted. But perhaps she is also facing perturbation by existing for too long and thus she only wakes when the snippets of fate she created would happen assuming everything will play completely on what she wanted as long as the prophecy is fulfilled, and then she investigates whether these fated scenarios would come into fruition, and then slumber again to save her energy and herself from eroding.
I mean, if the Heavenly Principles really saw that the prophecy was done but then failed to dissolve people like what she really wanted, then she should have went down to committed genocide among fontainians herself. What I mean is, this is how Focalors deceived the heavenly principles, because she might have an idea that the heavenly principles only sees snippets of the world's happenings when she resides in celestia and she just lets the fate do its work thinking the fate will always side with her.
On the other hand though, it might be because she can't intervene herself in the world and she can only use fate to make changes in the world, one thing Focalors was able to control.
Anyways, the first theory is referenced to the fact that venti also slumbers and wakes when he is needed, and he is the most sus archon along with zhongli.
The paimon voice acting is spectacular
Are there any theories out there about Genshin and Ragnarok? The information about Laevateinn burning the world to cinders and likely doing it again reminded me of a theory that Ragnarok in Norse mythology is actually cyclical, or that it has already happened. I feel like there could be something cooking there with Rene's world formula, all the Norse mythology references, the destruction of the Hydro Archon's seat, the opposition to the Heavenly Principles, but I don't know if there's enough for a coherent theory just yet.
"gosh i wish that were me"
GIRL SAME!!!!!!!
The Neuvillette loving humans part.. so that’s why Focalors asked Neuvillette what judgment he would give them😮
One thing that confuses me is how Focalor knew Neuvilette would join the nation. Wasn't not affiliated with the nation at the time she sealed herself away and didn't take his current position for a couple hundred years? Furina wouldn't have known to recruit him.
I think because normally as apep ruled over the ancient sumeru the old hydro sovereign governed his fontaine so fontaine was howewer his origin and nation
I get that Focalors wanted to deceive Celestia to carry out her plan, but even if her original plan had worked without our help, wouldn't Celestia then want to take Neuvillette's Authority and give it to another Archon they could control?
The charade itself looks to me like it was more so done for Neuvillette and for the people of Fontaine, after all, without it, Neuvillette wouldn't have grown to care for humans and wouldn't have grown as a person, and Fontaine would've been plunged into chaos if people knew they are actually Oceanids and not truly human.
Also, why did Focalors have to die? Wasn't it established that the Archons themselves aren't tied to the Dragon Authorities? Did she actually need to sacrifice her life for the power to remove the Authority from the Gnosis?
Note, the original Hydro Dragon died, possibly accidentally, hence why Celestia had to make an artificial god to take the Hydro Authority.
Also, changing something in the past is not even remotely the same as changing something in the future, the past cannot be truly changed, to do so would mean you moved to a different universe. Irminsul can alter people's perception, maybe even rearrange physical things in the present, but it can't alter what already happened.
The "history of the future" is just a metaphor, the future can always change. The Genshin universe may be fantasy but it's modeled after our own.
"I get that Focalors wanted to deceive Celestia to carry out her plan, but even if her original plan had worked without our help, wouldn't Celestia then want to take Neuvillette's Authority and give it to another Archon they could control?"
Funny enough, you kind of answer your own question in your own comment, but I'll get to that in a bit.
"The charade itself looks to me like it was more so done for Neuvillette and for the people of Fontaine, after all, without it, Neuvillette wouldn't have grown to care for humans and wouldn't have grown as a person, and Fontaine would've been plunged into chaos if people knew they are actually Oceanids and not truly human."
It's both that and to deceive The Heavenly Principles. Both can coexist.
"Also, why did Focalors have to die? Wasn't it established that the Archons themselves aren't tied to the Dragon Authorities? Did she actually need to sacrifice her life for the power to remove the Authority from the Gnosis?"
And here I am to answer your first question by answering this. It's was mentioned in the cutscene: the divine throne, which is not the Gnosis btw. Whatever the divine throne is, Focalors needed to destroy it to give Neuvillette his Elemental Authority back. It basically implies that The Heavenly Principles is able to take control of the Elemental Authorities and not have it returned to back the the Sovereigns by creating these divine thrones (so in reality, it's the Sovereigns that can take back their Authorities easily, not the other way around). As to why Focalors had to died, I suspect and probably easily implied that her role into "Archonhood" stems having to be permanently tied to the divine throne, and thus has to die if she wants to destroy the divine throne. And as to how I can confidently say that the Gnosis is not the divine throne? Because the Gnosis is still around after Focalors destroyed the divine throne. That basically confirmed that the two are separate, which only gets further confirmed after Neuvillette drops the bombshell that the Gnosis are the remains of The Third Descender, who seems to be similar to the Traveler (and I'm scare for what that implies...). I suspect why the Gnosis is needed is because they act as a "conduit" of sorts that allows the Archons to channel and wield the Elemental Authority they possess(ed), since it doesn't belong to them after all.
"Also, changing something in the past is not even remotely the same as changing something in the future, the past cannot be truly changed, to do so would mean you moved to a different universe. Irminsul can alter people's perception, maybe even rearrange physical things in the present, but it can't alter what already happened.
The "history of the future" is just a metaphor, the future can always change. The Genshin universe may be fantasy but it's modeled after our own."
You see, I use to think that, but after this Archon Quest, I'm now not sure sure.
While they do take heavy inspirations for reality with the world of Teyvat, keep in mind that they also consistently remind us of this quote from the load screen:
"Teyvat has it's own laws."
And considering what we know of the Travail Trailer and the "Loom of Fate" at this point in the story, as well as Nicole literally calling prophecies "histories of the future", lest not discount that they may mean more literally with the phrase "changing the past to save the future," just that this "future" is tied to the Heavenly Principles.
You know... like the case for many religions and how they valourize their God(s). lol Keep in mind that they also take heavy inspirations from religion and mythologies too.
The comment above me already answered most of this but for the part where Focalors has to die-- I believe it was 1.) a fuck you to Celestia specifically and 2.) an act done to make sure that the prophecy will really not come true. After all, Celestia condemned Egeria and Fontaine for "stealing the power of the primordial sea for their own wishes"-- and isn't that basically the same as what Celestia did to the dragon sovereigns? They're using the power of the dragon sovereigns as if it is their own. Focalors sentencing herself to the death sentence for the sin of her predecessor and her people is like a subtle middle finger to Celestia that they can't even contest because THEY did make it so that Egeria's sin would be inherited by the new hydro archon. Focalors knows that they wouldn't expect her to die for that. It's Focalors ultimate act of "sacrifice" as well as her ultimate act of "justice".
Not only is it a showcase of Focalors showing Celestia how fucked up their supposed "fairness" and "justice" is, it was also actually pretty crucial for stopping the prophecy probably. It was probably Focalors' backup plan. Remember this-- The hydro archon is supposed to be left weeping on the throne. Focalors couldnt possibly accurately predict how everything will play out if she messes with fate, so I'm guessing she killed her "divinity" to be extra sure that something would deviate from the prophecy. After all, if her divinity dies, then that would mean that there would no longer be a Hydro archon, right? It was a big risk to trust Neuvilette, a hydro sovereign, to forgive humans easily even after everything, so I'm betting that Focalors added her head in a platter to the plan to be extra careful and hopefully change something still.
@@TheGeekyRedMage I didn't say both reasons can't exist at the same time, I was saying that the main reason is flimsy.
What is the divine throne then? I thought it was established that the Gnoses are used to store the Dragon's Heart/Pearl/Authority. What about Zhongli basically abdicating his "throne" aka Archon position, he did it without dying, he clearly wasn't tied to his Archonhood.
You don't need to destroy the physical Gnosis to release the power it holds, especially since now we know it's the remains of a descender and might even be indestructible. Just like you can open a bottle and release its content without needing to destroy the bottle.
Right now, nothing in the past has been changed, and while you can prophesize something with 99.99% accuracy, there is always a way to change the future by acting in the present.
@@liafaithfetalvero6262 Sorry, killing yourself to spite someone else makes no sense. The prophecy stopped being about Focalors when she made Furina to take her place.
Celestia made Egeria to wield the Hydro Authority in the first place, and part of that Authority is dominion over Primordial Water. Celestia's problem was that she turned elemental spirits into humans. Celestia made/brought pure humans to Teyvat, and creating new life, especially human life, was forbidden.
The sin wasn't inherited, the sin was the existence of current Fontainians. Again, her death makes no sense unless she needed that extra power to release the Hydro Authority. Neuvillette being able to turn Fontainians into real humans(which was what absolved the sin), was never part of the prophecy.
The death sentence she passed on herself was BS, because she wasn't impersonating the Archon, nor was she the one who stole the Authority or killed the last Hydro Dragon, and she wasn't even on trial, she was the Oratrice and spirit of Justice. Her only crime in the eyes of Celestia could have been the making of Furina, but she wouldn't have needed to make Furina unless her plan was to die from the start. Anyway, there are still big pieces of the story missing and without them we're just flying in circles.
No, I'm with Celestia on this one, no one should be messing around modifying or creating fake humans. It was forbidden for a good reason.
She didn't stop the prophecy, she did everything to make sure the prophecy came true lol. The only thing she wanted was to ensure the survival of the Fontainians.
The whole point of the game is to show that Fate isn't absolute and that gods aren't actually omnipotent or omniscient.
The plan was to put Neuvillette in charge of Fontaine and give him his Authority back so he can save the people, that was the real plan, going along with the prophecy was nothing more than a charade to make sure everything fell into place.
The Archons aren't tied to the Dragon Authorities or to the position of Archon. Zhongli abdicated his position as Archon without dying, and 3 of them gave away their Gnoses like it was nothing.
It wasn't a risk to trust Neuvillette, she knew about him before she invited him to Fontaine to practically groom him as the next leader. We already know that the Dragons don't have beef with humans, they have beef with Celestia.
Neuvillette interpreted that her death sentence linked with the original Archon sin of creating Fontainians.
But the origin Archon already faced her punishment with the prophecy. Which made Focalors giving Hydro Archon death sentence totally nonsense.
However... It was before he met her, if you remember their last moment, Focalors, the God of Justice wanted to judge the Heavenly Principles's sin. And maybe it was her sin that deserved the death sentence...
This is what i think Focalors did:
Focalors, the God of Justice, unable to stop the injustice that Celestia committed, let Fontainians suffered the unjust curse placed on themselves, deserved the death sentence.
Celestia, stole power from the dragons, placed unjust curses and punishments down innocent peoples, will have their Seven Archon system broken down from inside.
Hydro Dragon, the victim of this case, will have his ability fully restored.
The sin of Fontainians will be judged by the rightful owner of water: Hydro Dragon.
I was eating whilst watching this and almost choked hearing about dragon juice then following up with "i wish it were me"
do you have thoughts on the world quests about the ordo from 4.2? I dont just mean the main one, but the ones after Enigmatic page 10 and the ones called Pursuit? they left me with so many questions
ok crack theory, what if veorfolnir is pierro? (hi if you can make everything about kaeya i can make everything about pierro) main keys are:
norse mythology name, a staple for khaenrians
knoeing the future, like how pierro knew khaenriah would be destroyed and tried as you said "save the past with the future"
very old, 500 or more
PIERRO (feral noises)
ALSO no no no, you are allowed to make ANYTHING about pierro here. you have my blessing. and encouragement. I LOVE PIERRO
random sidenote - like a year or two ago, for some reason, i came up with the idea that pierro could see the future. iirc mostly in the sense he's like a chess grandmaster, and can see all the plays? i forget the justification but ill try and dig that up.....
She made sure that neuv would care about the ppl of Fontaine m very clever
The thing I still don't get is why focalors had to die? Couldn't she just pass over the authority to neuvillette?
Hope someone will clear this for me
good question - still cooking on this... ideas coming soon
It can’t be passed like that. Even the gnosis doesn’t remove an Archons’ authority just like how Zhongli, Ei, Nahida, Venti still have their Authorities.
@@banir3736yes true and the only reason she was able to pass it over was not only because of her death but the *Hydro archons* death, she destroyed the throne of the hydro archon and thus neuvillete gets his powers back
Maybe it's like Archons lease the power of their element from Celestia, so an archon saying they relinquish their power, or giving back their gnosis still leaves the "lease" extant. All that indemnitium was needed not only to remove the archon, but also to rewrite the rules, so the power of hydro goes back to the Dragon Sovereign. Which is wierd...energy changes the nature of elemental governance in Teyvat. That mechanism was so hand-wavy imo...
She needed to die in order to give the full authority to neuvi that was tied to the hydro archon's divine throne, even she as a god that was an oceanid turn human she can't control the primordial sea, only the Hydro dragon sovereign with full dragonhood is able to do it since the dragon was the heart of the primordial sea.
Wait, if Gnosis are the remains of the 3rd Descender… is the goal of the Fatui ultimately to revive the 3rd Descender and install that Descender to rule over Celestia?
Another interesting thing - the Sustainer took the “Wings” of the Twins. That power likely hasn’t disappeared - which means it could be somewhere in Teyvat. It’s very possible that the Twins could ultimately get their Wings back (and introduce a new element/s) in the future.
I personally found it a little weird how the part of the prophecy of everyone dissolving didn't come to pass at all, though I also noticed that the dissolution wasn't in the stone slates itself. But, given how Navia almost dissolved, I feel like that would've been a fantastic little bit of foreshadowing that they could've used, just narratively speaking: Neuvillette can hypothetically keep someone from dissolving if he can act fast enough, but at full power, everyone could've begin to dissolve, and then he could've stepped in to reverse the process before anyone lost their individuality.
I'm still satisfied with how it played out but I feel like that would've been a neat way to approach the writing.
Only thing I can't figure out about fontaine is why celestia didn't drop a spike on them since celestia has done it a few times. Did the other regions commit an even worse sin to warrant getting nuked ? Or is there a spike somewhere in fontaine that hasn't been mentioned or yet to be seen.
it’s implied that celestia is dormant right now, so frankly focalors didnt fool them, they’re just inactive so won’t retaliate. the issue with focalors plan is that it doesnt seem to accounr for what happens to fontaine when celestia wakes up, although i can see neuv being their saviour as a dragon.
I don't think so, that Celestia will just throw celestial nails everytime she/he feels like it,
The celestial nails are meant to mend the lands from abyssal corruption, not really for punishment
It is implied by Nahida in the Apep quest that nails served only one purpose- closing leaks of abyssal powers trying to enter teyvat. The damage done by them to a region is more of "collateral damage". Plus they didn't want to kill a nation, "just" wash a sin and punish Egeria. Considering if the prophecy came to be people wouldn't die, just change into oceanids, it explains why their only goal was to wash the sin away.
@@mizrahiomr added it was also mention the same thing by King Deshret, on one the weapons (I forgot what's its name)
But Celestia didn't dropped a nail to Deshret's kingdom tho?
Deshret getting eaten by Apep and Rukkha getting inflicted with forbidden Knowledge for 500 yrs... Just like how they sent Orabashi to death... And Focalors sacrificing herself...
I think Celestia has many ways to execute their punishments,
Celestia / primordial one has the ability to control fate since the god time is one of its shades that means it has control over time
We’ve seen Istaroth’s influence in the world ( biggest example being the sacred sakura )
Celestia sealed Orobashi’s fate due to its sins and it was fulfilled indirectly when it was slain by the raiden shogun
The Fontaine prophecy or the fate of Fontaine was fulfilled also although the people were saved but Fontaine was submerged entirely by water and we did see Furina weeping on her throne
My thoughts are if the theory that states that the artifact sets represents the primordial one and its four shades is actually true that would mean The primordial one has dominion not only to the world but to its past and future
Perhaps the place where the gods gaze doesn’t reach is a place outside of the world or out side of the surface realm
Khaenri’ah doesn’t exist in the surface realm it is in the realm below it so if the gods gaze does not reach it maybe that’s the reason it was destroyed
I feel like a better plan would have been for Focalors to TELL Nevillette about her plan, this way he would have been able to help keep the cover up, delaying even more, and also there would be no doubt as to what should Neuvillette have done. Like, there is no reason NOT to tell him.