I can't think of many cases where the joint needs that kind of strength. Perhaps in a chair or large door. Since I'm not a professional where time = money, I actually enjoy the process of cutting a mortise and tenon by hand. But I only do that where I need both the strength and hidden joint. For things that can't be seen, pocket screws do the trick. And for alignment, biscuits still work pretty well. The best use case I can see for a Domino is in a professional shop where one tool is doing it all and where speed is important since time = money for them.
I’m sticking with dowels. I bought a really good Dowel Max and I found I can use it multiple ways in joinery. I buy dowels in four foot lengths to save $$ and have custom lengths as needed.
There are several others that have commented that same sentiment. I’ve always been frustrated with dowels, so I just stopped using them. However, it sounds like with the right jig, it’s pretty hard to beat their strength and price! I may have to give the Dowel Max a try!
It's a great video and was nice to watch with my morning coffee. I think there is a time and place for most joinery. I use dowels and more traditional hand cut joinery a lot. Dowels have been great for me but the speed of a domino has me wanting one, just haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Thank you for watching! I bought the Domino Joiner because I have a deal with my wife... I get 1 tool every time she asks me to build something for her :) She wanted a new dresser and so I got the new Festool and still came out cheaper than buying a hardwood dresser from the furniture store! Those prices are crazy!
My question would be: Do any of these joint tests really mean anything? When will anyone ever put this much pressure on any one of these joints in their projects? Pocket hole joinery is an affordable option for making cabinet face frames. I have seen a lot of pro cabinet makers using them here on TH-cam. I don't think they are intended for use on joints that need a lot of strength. Dominos are basically just a fast (and expensive) way of cutting mortise and tendons. Using dowels - if you have the time and when done properly - just may be the cheapest way to go for really good strong joints.
I agree that these tests were overkill, but I did want to test their break strength. What I didn't expect was the wood to fail before the joints - that surprised me a lot, actually. But, what it also showed was that pocket screws are "good enough" (maybe not for heirloom furniture, but for most projects I'd say) and that personally, I don't need to keep over-building things with so many screws, so much glue, and more tenons than you can shake a stick at! :) I appreciate the input - thanks for watching!
Biscuits are one I didn’t test. It’s not that I omitted them out of spite, I just have never used them and didn’t want to spend the money on that tool when I already had a Domino joiner. 🤣 I recorded a segment that talked a little about them, but I completely forgot about it until I read your comment. 🤦♂️
Fast Precision is how I tend to think of the Domino. It certainly is cleaner looking than some methods (looking at you pocket holes) but I agree with you: each has its place. And I think you're spot on: build up your assortment of other tools before going for the Domino.
It really depends on what you are using the joint for and how much time you want to set up and do the joint. I don't do the old craftsmen M&T joints any more. They take too long to get all of them to fit correctly for all the joints in that project. Pocket holes are great for slap together Joinery, where you can be off just a bit in your z axis, and it does not mater. Stretchers in cabinets is a good example. If you need more precision, then dowels and domino's are the way to go. The Festool Domino machine is really well suited for doing fast joints especially if you are doing 32mm based cabinet joinery, Most of the jig set up is built into the machine and its accessories so it's fairly easy to crank out perfectly fitting visible joints such as cabinet corners where the x, y, and z axis come together. The dual dowel joiner sort of fits into this class as well. All of the Domino work-a-likes and most of the dowel jigs needs some type of jiging to make the x,y, & z axes come together perfectly. so setup time is a lot longer. Since I don't do cabinets for a living, I use pocket holes, on most of my shop boxes, drawers. and stretchers. For cabinets, I have built the jigs I need to make my Domino work-a-like, and the doweling jigs work perfectly. #1 tip, Mark everything and how you want it to come together. You can erase or clean up the pencil lines later far easier then joining a new piece of wood.
That’s a lot of good info! Thanks for taking the time to type that out and thanks for watching! Do you do mostly hobby work, or do you do woodworking as a profession?
If dowels didn't come out on top, I would think the test was somehow flawed. A pretty scientific test was done by Dowel Max and that joinery method also came out on top. The only advantage I can see to owning a Festool Domino is speed. The Dowel Max with it's high tolerance build quality and built in clamps makes for super accurate joints with no slop at all. It isn't cheap, but worth every penny. I love my Dowel Max jig, and no I don't work for them. They just make a great tool. Thanks for all the work you put into this video.
@TheDudeShop Please do. It has made converts out of other TH-cam content creators like Make Something, Woodwork Web and 731 Woodwork. The jig you used is very limited in the types of joints it can make. Not so with both the Dowelmax and the Jessum Doweling jig. Yeah I kind of went overboard on the Doweling jigs. I have both the Aluminum and Stainless steel models of the Jessum jigs. Aso excellent, but if I had to choose only one it would be the Dowelmax. It is beautifully machined and is built to last a lifetime. If used properly, you can't even feel where the joints meet. Pretty incredible tool.
I would like to see this test done again but with the piston put on the open end of the joint so that the only failure would be on the joint not the wood. Having said that I am a real fan of both pocket screws and my Domino.
I’ll add that to my list of video ideas. The Domino is what’s known as a “loose tenon” and certainly does provide some structural benefit (and alignment too). I’d be curious of how well different types of glue hold up. That could be another idea!
The flutes on dowels are to allow air and glue to release from the bottom of the hole, they are better than solid dowels. This subject of which joining method has been beat to death on the internet. Each joint will have it's purpose and you need to address that rather than which one holds more pressure, which is a dumb test.
DOWEL JOINTS ARE MY FAST AND EASY WAY OF DOING JOINTS. BUT IF YOU ARE IN PRODUCTION BUIDING I GUESS FESTOOL IS THE WAY TO GO. I'm A HOBBY WOODWORKER SO I LIKE TO SPEND A LITTLE EXTRA TIME IN THE SHOP AND ON A PROJECT SOMETIMES I EVEN MAKE MORTISE AND TENDON JOINT I KNOW IT CRAZY🤯. Thanks FOR ALL THE WORK YOU PUT INTO THE VIDEO GREAT INFORMATION.
Wonderful comparison..!!! Thank you..!! I'n subscribing..!! Hey you didn't put a link to the mini glue roller.!! it looks great.!! (an the little tray with it). Where I can find it?
Hi I have been using the Jessel dowling jig which I find so easy to use and precise as well as creating a strong joint. I started with dowels as it was a more cost effective way to join…and faster than traditional mortise and tenon but except perhaps when I have the time or want to renew my traditional skills I will stay with dowels thanks
I have always wondered why people think that you have to have a joint that strong because it is usually cabinet doors and face frames that you are making and the level of strength and stress on these joints is very low. I think people over complicate things because of they are influenced by tool manufacturers who convince people that they need something that they really don’t. Don’t get me wrong I love tools but the price they put on them sometimes makes the simple way the best way. Unless you were making something that requires extreme strength and endurance over time the simple way is the best.
When I heard Festool, I thought "Scam" at first, for sure. But the Domino might be one of the few rare tools from Festool that is only insanely overpriced.
They have a steep buy-in, no doubt! It's the only Festool I own. Nothing against Festool, I just think they are overpriced for what I do. A SawStop table saw is my next purchase!
Why not try simple biscuit joints, the cheaper version of the Domino’s, they are in my mind the closest to the Domino if done correctly and glued up well, in fact all of the joints used have their own pros and cons but the Domino answers the most common issues and cons in one very simple machine, yet you still have to glue them, cut them, measure them in a way that takes the sane time as any biscuit joiner, I’ve used a cheap biscuit jointer and I’ve wonder an expensive Biscuit jointer which costs even more than the domino machine so I know what I’m talking about. It really depends what and why you are using the joint you have chosen but as for an all in one use mostly anywhere to cover most bases in most situations with most wood materials when using the sane glue, namely Titebond 3, you cannot get much better bang for your buck (or Pound £££ in my case) than the good old Biscuit jointer, learn how to use them correctly with the correct size biscuits and learn how to set the machine up correctly, use the right glue and use enough bloody biscuits, I get fed up of seeing folks using 5 biscuits in a 6ft long glue up and cut them all in a cat toy the same place all the way through the glue up?? Dominos are great, I own one and use it but not all the time, in fact I’m using it less and less now the honeymoon period has worn off it (usually around 1-2 months) 😂 Great video, good channel 😊
Hey there! Great info! I used a biscuit joiner in my dad’s shop as a kid, but I just never invested in one now that I have my own hobby shop. I agree that a biscuit joiner would have been a solid contender against the Domino. The cheap answer is that I didn’t want to spend the money on the biscuit when I already had the Festool! 🤣 Your argument makes a strong case though, perhaps I will give biscuits a closer look, especially since they cost a fraction of the Domino. Thanks for watching!
A Domino is worth it if you can use it enough. Now to use a Domino enough that it'd be cost competitive with other methods you'd have to use that Domino in at least 30 projects. Which is not completely out of the realm of reason. But that's still quite a bit of woodworking for an amateur.
Yeah I agree. Definitely not a tool I would buy if I were just starting out or if rarely used it. Like I said in the video, it is nice to have - no doubt about that, but it's also cost prohibitive for most folks when so many other cheaper options exist. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDudeShop I'm trying to think if I have $1,200 invested in all the woodworking tools I have. I bought most of what I have used for cheap so I might not. There's certainly other tools I'd like to have. I just haven't found them for cheap yet.
I can't think of many cases where the joint needs that kind of strength. Perhaps in a chair or large door. Since I'm not a professional where time = money, I actually enjoy the process of cutting a mortise and tenon by hand. But I only do that where I need both the strength and hidden joint. For things that can't be seen, pocket screws do the trick. And for alignment, biscuits still work pretty well. The best use case I can see for a Domino is in a professional shop where one tool is doing it all and where speed is important since time = money for them.
100% agree! Thanks for the input and thanks for watching!
I’m sticking with dowels. I bought a really good Dowel Max and I found I can use it multiple ways in joinery. I buy dowels in four foot lengths to save $$ and have custom lengths as needed.
There are several others that have commented that same sentiment. I’ve always been frustrated with dowels, so I just stopped using them. However, it sounds like with the right jig, it’s pretty hard to beat their strength and price! I may have to give the Dowel Max a try!
It's a great video and was nice to watch with my morning coffee. I think there is a time and place for most joinery. I use dowels and more traditional hand cut joinery a lot. Dowels have been great for me but the speed of a domino has me wanting one, just haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Thank you for watching! I bought the Domino Joiner because I have a deal with my wife... I get 1 tool every time she asks me to build something for her :) She wanted a new dresser and so I got the new Festool and still came out cheaper than buying a hardwood dresser from the furniture store! Those prices are crazy!
@@TheDudeShop Well played. That's a fair deal.
My question would be: Do any of these joint tests really mean anything? When will anyone ever put this much pressure on any one of these joints in their projects?
Pocket hole joinery is an affordable option for making cabinet face frames. I have seen a lot of pro cabinet makers using them here on TH-cam. I don't think they are intended for use on joints that need a lot of strength.
Dominos are basically just a fast (and expensive) way of cutting mortise and tendons.
Using dowels - if you have the time and when done properly - just may be the cheapest way to go for really good strong joints.
That's why I'm happy to use biscuits. Strong enough in most use cases I'm dealing with and cheap, fast and accurate.
I agree that these tests were overkill, but I did want to test their break strength. What I didn't expect was the wood to fail before the joints - that surprised me a lot, actually. But, what it also showed was that pocket screws are "good enough" (maybe not for heirloom furniture, but for most projects I'd say) and that personally, I don't need to keep over-building things with so many screws, so much glue, and more tenons than you can shake a stick at! :)
I appreciate the input - thanks for watching!
Biscuits are one I didn’t test. It’s not that I omitted them out of spite, I just have never used them and didn’t want to spend the money on that tool when I already had a Domino joiner. 🤣 I recorded a segment that talked a little about them, but I completely forgot about it until I read your comment. 🤦♂️
There's plenty of furniture that has broken so obviously the stuff does fail.
What I noticed when you were doing the Domino tenons was you set the Domino machine to make the wider slots which may be why that joint failed.
Fast Precision is how I tend to think of the Domino. It certainly is cleaner looking than some methods (looking at you pocket holes) but I agree with you: each has its place. And I think you're spot on: build up your assortment of other tools before going for the Domino.
Totally agree! It's a nice tool, but not a necessary one. Thanks for watching!
It really depends on what you are using the joint for and how much time you want to set up and do the joint. I don't do the old craftsmen M&T joints any more. They take too long to get all of them to fit correctly for all the joints in that project.
Pocket holes are great for slap together Joinery, where you can be off just a bit in your z axis, and it does not mater. Stretchers in cabinets is a good example. If you need more precision, then dowels and domino's are the way to go. The Festool Domino machine is really well suited for doing fast joints especially if you are doing 32mm based cabinet joinery, Most of the jig set up is built into the machine and its accessories so it's fairly easy to crank out perfectly fitting visible joints such as cabinet corners where the x, y, and z axis come together. The dual dowel joiner sort of fits into this class as well.
All of the Domino work-a-likes and most of the dowel jigs needs some type of jiging to make the x,y, & z axes come together perfectly. so setup time is a lot longer. Since I don't do cabinets for a living, I use pocket holes, on most of my shop boxes, drawers. and stretchers. For cabinets, I have built the jigs I need to make my Domino work-a-like, and the doweling jigs work perfectly.
#1 tip, Mark everything and how you want it to come together. You can erase or clean up the pencil lines later far easier then joining a new piece of wood.
That’s a lot of good info! Thanks for taking the time to type that out and thanks for watching! Do you do mostly hobby work, or do you do woodworking as a profession?
If dowels didn't come out on top, I would think the test was somehow flawed. A pretty scientific test was done by Dowel Max and that joinery method also came out on top. The only advantage I can see to owning a Festool Domino is speed. The Dowel Max with it's high tolerance build quality and built in clamps makes for super accurate joints with no slop at all. It isn't cheap, but worth every penny. I love my Dowel Max jig, and no I don't work for them. They just make a great tool. Thanks for all the work you put into this video.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I’ll have to check out that Dowel Max jig!
@TheDudeShop Please do. It has made converts out of other TH-cam content creators like Make Something, Woodwork Web and 731 Woodwork. The jig you used is very limited in the types of joints it can make. Not so with both the Dowelmax and the Jessum Doweling jig. Yeah I kind of went overboard on the Doweling jigs. I have both the Aluminum and Stainless steel models of the Jessum jigs. Aso excellent, but if I had to choose only one it would be the Dowelmax. It is beautifully machined and is built to last a lifetime. If used properly, you can't even feel where the joints meet. Pretty incredible tool.
I would like to see this test done again but with the piston put on the open end of the joint so that the only failure would be on the joint not the wood. Having said that I am a real fan of both pocket screws and my Domino.
I may do a follow up video. We’ll see how this one goes, but if I do, I’m gonna use oak!
Can you test it with only glue join, what I know about domino, it’s only to aligned wood ?
I’ll add that to my list of video ideas. The Domino is what’s known as a “loose tenon” and certainly does provide some structural benefit (and alignment too). I’d be curious of how well different types of glue hold up. That could be another idea!
The flutes on dowels are to allow air and glue to release from the bottom of the hole, they are better than solid dowels. This subject of which joining method has been beat to death on the internet. Each joint will have it's purpose and you need to address that rather than which one holds more pressure, which is a dumb test.
Glad you got something out of it. Maybe I’ll add that idea to my list
DOWEL JOINTS ARE MY FAST AND EASY WAY OF DOING JOINTS. BUT IF YOU ARE IN PRODUCTION BUIDING I GUESS FESTOOL IS THE WAY TO GO. I'm A HOBBY WOODWORKER SO I LIKE TO SPEND A LITTLE EXTRA TIME IN THE SHOP AND ON A PROJECT SOMETIMES I EVEN MAKE MORTISE AND TENDON JOINT I KNOW IT CRAZY🤯. Thanks FOR ALL THE WORK YOU PUT INTO THE VIDEO GREAT INFORMATION.
What dowel jig do you use for your projects?
Wonderful comparison..!!! Thank you..!! I'n subscribing..!! Hey you didn't put a link to the mini glue roller.!! it looks great.!! (an the little tray with it). Where I can find it?
Thanks! I appreciate the kind words.
Yeah I guess I forgot that one. It’s on Amazon: amzn.to/3DyQX5E
Hi I have been using the Jessel dowling jig which I find so easy to use and precise as well as creating a strong joint. I started with dowels as it was a more cost effective way to join…and faster than traditional mortise and tenon but except perhaps when I have the time or want to renew my traditional skills I will stay with dowels thanks
Glad you got something out of it! I appreciate the view!
I have always wondered why people think that you have to have a joint that strong because it is usually cabinet doors and face frames that you are making and the level of strength and stress on these joints is very low. I think people over complicate things because of they are influenced by tool manufacturers who convince people that they need something that they really don’t. Don’t get me wrong I love tools but the price they put on them sometimes makes the simple way the best way. Unless you were making something that requires extreme strength and endurance over time the simple way is the best.
I agree a lot of the joints are overkill! It really depends on the application and choosing the right joint for the job.
Where do you find festool for $1200?
I bought mine at the new Rockler store in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, but Amazon has them for the same price. Here’s the link. amzn.to/4gT4a7L
When I heard Festool, I thought "Scam" at first, for sure. But the Domino might be one of the few rare tools from Festool that is only insanely overpriced.
They have a steep buy-in, no doubt! It's the only Festool I own. Nothing against Festool, I just think they are overpriced for what I do. A SawStop table saw is my next purchase!
@@TheDudeShop Funny thing is... in germany, Festool is selling the only table saws with SawStop technology. ^^
😳 I was not aware of that.
@@TheDudeShop You will not regret the sawstop. Peace of mind and good quality saw!
Why not try simple biscuit joints, the cheaper version of the Domino’s, they are in my mind the closest to the Domino if done correctly and glued up well, in fact all of the joints used have their own pros and cons but the Domino answers the most common issues and cons in one very simple machine, yet you still have to glue them, cut them, measure them in a way that takes the sane time as any biscuit joiner, I’ve used a cheap biscuit jointer and I’ve wonder an expensive Biscuit jointer which costs even more than the domino machine so I know what I’m talking about. It really depends what and why you are using the joint you have chosen but as for an all in one use mostly anywhere to cover most bases in most situations with most wood materials when using the sane glue, namely Titebond 3, you cannot get much better bang for your buck (or Pound £££ in my case) than the good old Biscuit jointer, learn how to use them correctly with the correct size biscuits and learn how to set the machine up correctly, use the right glue and use enough bloody biscuits, I get fed up of seeing folks using 5 biscuits in a 6ft long glue up and cut them all in a cat toy the same place all the way through the glue up??
Dominos are great, I own one and use it but not all the time, in fact I’m using it less and less now the honeymoon period has worn off it (usually around 1-2 months) 😂
Great video, good channel 😊
Hey there! Great info! I used a biscuit joiner in my dad’s shop as a kid, but I just never invested in one now that I have my own hobby shop. I agree that a biscuit joiner would have been a solid contender against the Domino. The cheap answer is that I didn’t want to spend the money on the biscuit when I already had the Festool! 🤣 Your argument makes a strong case though, perhaps I will give biscuits a closer look, especially since they cost a fraction of the Domino. Thanks for watching!
It's a wood failure..
I agree! Thanks for watching!
A scientific test would have made a few repetitions... But hey, the point of the video is well taken, most joints perform at a high level. Thank you!
Looking back on it, I agree that at least 3 tests per joint would have been better. Thanks for watching!
A Domino is worth it if you can use it enough. Now to use a Domino enough that it'd be cost competitive with other methods you'd have to use that Domino in at least 30 projects. Which is not completely out of the realm of reason. But that's still quite a bit of woodworking for an amateur.
Yeah I agree. Definitely not a tool I would buy if I were just starting out or if rarely used it. Like I said in the video, it is nice to have - no doubt about that, but it's also cost prohibitive for most folks when so many other cheaper options exist. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDudeShop I'm trying to think if I have $1,200 invested in all the woodworking tools I have. I bought most of what I have used for cheap so I might not. There's certainly other tools I'd like to have. I just haven't found them for cheap yet.
your first domino cost 1200$, expose it somewhere in your shop.
the following are free.
🤔
dude ..it was a wood fail not joinery
I agree!
who buy dominos?
when you have leftover wood and a miter saw.
this may justify the price.
Yeah I’ve seen videos of people making them, but I haven’t tried it myself.
American freedom measurment😅😅😅🎉
‘Merica!