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this video could have started at 18 minutes - but then I had to go watch another video to get REAL information on this actual missile project... so it was basically useless. Look Alex. I don't get whats happening with this channel. maybe you are running out of things to talk about. or maybe your priorities are just views. But you are making videos just filler. Like with the Anril stuff. you made 3 videos when 1 would have been fine. its just getting bad.
I hope that you somehow get this,Alex. I love Sandboxx. I appreciate ya. I'm astonished at your knowledge, young man. I'm Army, but air power is my real hobby. Lol. Keep up the amazing videos,buddy.
lol. even if it isnt top tier i bet they are kickin their own butts for having cut so many from production when its very apparent now we are short on vessels
@MrGriff305-d3u No, he doesn't. BTW, look at the US Air Force for who is responsible for 'pausing' the super NGAD and the US Army for ending the new helicopter. Both changes are tied to recent AI and drone developments.
The problem is it’s made to do a stealth destroyer but also do the battleship job. It’s a failed attempt at this, the problem is there is many high up who like the battleships and many do not. The battleships could work but aren’t don’t correctly if the main guns was 16 guns with some missiles, and anti air and some torpedoes I think it would be better .
Their prices escalate so much faster, too. The "minimissile" capability of the GPS guided projectile at a reasonable cost was the real draw, and would have at least met the original idea if not for limited production.
They already have missle destroyers, and missile cruisers. The idea of a gun destroyer was so they could fire $35,000 shells instead of $2,000,000 missiles. Scale of production just meant the shells weren't that cheap any more.
@@TrogglemanI do wonder if today a gun like that could be done more economically, especially if they were willing to give up a little range. Doesn't the Army already have gps guided artillery rounds?
One night my wife and I were visiting Bath maine and were just looking out over the river, when almost completely silent, the Zumwalt passed us heading out to sea. I've never seen anything that big being that quiet, It gave off this vibe of " Excuse me, I am new here, who's ass do I kick first"
It's a boondoggle over priced and hyped failed weapon system a sitting duck and even with those new missles still utterly useless other than being a jobs program ... need I say goverment cheese much?
I live in Virginia by the Chesapeake Bay in Hampton. I fish at the piers on the Fort Monroe National Monument often and we can see the carriers across the James River in Norfolk. I have pictures of a couple carriers going in and out, and several submarines too. Also I see other Navy ships I can't identify but some kind of battleship or maybe missile cruisers. And supply ships. It's pretty cool to see. A lot of helicopters and the airplanes with the radar dish on top. From Langley AFB we have F-22's flying over a lot too. I just moved here in 2023 and I like seeing all the military stuff. We see SEALs and Coast Guard and all kinds of law enforcement and security too.
I'm saddened that the rail gun never made it into service. Projectiles with muzzle velocities in excess of Mach 9 (6906 mph) bring a whole new meaning to the term firepower. The cost of a suitable APFSDS round being less than a 155mm artillery projectile. It would likely require a submarine class nuclear reactor on board to provide the power for sustained bombardments. The KE or destructive power of a depleted uranium penetrator (half the mass times the velocity squared) at Mach 9 needs a few minutes to register in the brain bucket.
@@somenygaard That would certainly have be enough for rail guns plural. But she was BIG with the RCS of a city. Imagine that immense firepower with a 200 mile range. On several destroyer or frigate sized vessels with the RCS of rowing boats. Now consider that firepower slaved to the modern multidomain battle space. Target identification provided by every surveillance satellite, drone, F35, USMC or SEAL team on shore. Ready to respond within seconds. I'm closing in on 70 y/o and hope I live long enough to at least know such things are in service. My serving grandsons deserve such firepower backing them up.
We gotta bring back the Wisconsin and it's legendary temper. It can carry 1200 rounds the size of a Chevy Malibu. That coastal barrage would be insane and the armor is so thick it'd never sink. They were built differently back then, it's a floating tank. A very angry floating tank.
@@davewebster5120 I hear you about it being a floating tank. Especially when you consider both the armor and armaments. The saying, "it takes a licking and keeps on ticking" definitely fits those ships. And the guns fire shells as big as an SUV. But the Titanic would like to speak to you about making an "unsinkable" claim. It wouldn't be easy, and one could argue it won't happen unless you get lucky and find a chink in it's armor. But it certainly can sink.
From what I've read of simulated engagements, they already are powerhouse's in spite of their neutered guns, because trading some missile capacity for stealth was a pretty good idea, like with the f-22 from the f-15. Now they're even better
A power house at what? Neutered guns is an understatement. At least something Neutered was once there. You know what else has a very tiny radar cross section and a lot of missiles? Well, to be fair, no matter the size, it would still just be a boat. By the way, the stealth thing, they kinda dumped that too when they went with the cheaper steel not composite deck house on 2 of the 3. The thing has an all custom missile radar and software system to he point that apparently the Zumwalt is in fact the ONLY thing Aegis can't go all skynet on. They literally cannot do the same thing on this ship to get a missile to do what it does in the same manner that it does on any other Destroyer or few Cruisers left in the fleet. That is not a good thing by the way. If anything new related to Aegis, which for the US fleet is the surface fleet, Zumwalt can't use it. The second ship? Already needs a brand new turbine. That's like a 10 year old needing a new heart. Then there's the reason you haven't seen one in so long is: right, they all really, really, want to be a submarine when they grow up, hull design. So, what copium have you be injected directly into your heart? Because much like most of this video, it was really out of date, you should go have that looked at quick.
@@LackofFaithify you’re referring to all the problems this ship has had, which I’m not disputing but that’s due to teething issues with the new technology. When they got the ships working and ran simulated engagements, the zumwalt did rather well due to it being so difficult to track and target. And no, it’s not just a submarine, it can do things submarines can’t, like launch helicopters and provide air defence. The ship has an AEGIS equivalent, it’s just not called AEGIS BTW
@@dustinmark6808 ice doesn’t ruin stealth, that’s one of the many myths of stealth such as low wavelength radar beating it. There’s a little bit of truth in there, but the final conclusion is wrong, stealth still works
Prior service Army here. Oldest son is currently in the Navy. Youngest will be joining the Air Force soon. I say all that, to say this. The Navy and Air Force have severely dropped the ball and have let the American people down. They are trying to fix it now. A lot of what they are doing to fix it is reported here by Sandboxx and his many video's. But, my god, I understand the Army and Marines being fixated on GWOT and insurgency. Maybe even a little bit with the Air Force as well. But the Navy has no excuse. Here's to hoping they get their chit together soon enough.
I’d could forgive the GWOT issues if it had to do with mission creep, but it didn’t … it was to steal tax payer money, launder it, and divide the proceeds among politicians and generals. No accountability. Than as if that’s not bad enough, we get publicly humiliated by a rag tag group of ‘Islamic Purists’ that find it impure to educate women, but open molest children…. Then there was the DEI takeover. The gays already own the Space Force, and half the Air Force….
@@wstavis3135 If you can't trust a source that has already been shown to be exactly what it advertised, then who do you trust? Tucker Carlson or Alex Jones? I hear they are passionate about what they do... 🥴
Eh lasers are helpful but not the end all we think of in SciFi, they really only work up to five miles out and the losses over distance are severe anyway. I mean don't get me wrong it needs to be part of the defense plan but for the time being a C-RAM with programmable AA rounds just make more sense. We could use all that energy for microwave weapons though. If we can direct a microwave energy beam (excluding when it rains) it'll have far less interference from the atmosphere and can still fry drones, missiles, and aircraft. If we can do it safely.
Wrong mission set, lasers aren't offensive weapons and this is an offensive platform. Laser weapons are best deployed in carrier strike groups as another tool to protect the fleet.
23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1
@@Pyromanemac This like any other weapons platform needs both.
True. The speed of light is faster than hypersonic. But I’m not sure that technology is quite ready. Distance and weather are still things that laser systems need to overcome. But the Zumwalt could be a great platform once the laser technology is fully developed.
None of that really makes sense, you said “F-22” as if it’s a bad thing, it was (and remains) the most advanced and lethal (from an aerodynamics and kinematics point of view) fighter ever built, 30 years after its first flight. Also, the Zumwalts have EXTENSIVE VLS capability. I have no clue why you say they only gave it a gun. They also gave it the excess power generation of FOUR ENTIRE CRUISERS. That’s no small feat.. it’s technologically incredible. These hypersonic weapons are a stop-gap, mark my word. These WILL be the first ships to operate high-powered directed energy weapons. That’s exactly why all that power was put there for a reason, and why much of the ship is modular (something not really talked about in this video, but was a MASSIVE reason for the initial r&d cost ironically.)
@@EstorilEmHe didn't mean it as a bad thing. He said that because it shows how the US military has consistently canceled systems before they can reach their full potential.
@@memeityy The Defense Dept bureaucracy is the biggest headache of new programs causing delays and bloat. Cut this and you'll see near immediate reductions in cost with faster development times. It's why we badly need a good look over by this DOGE under Trump.
@@EstorilEmit’s too bad they’re always in port for repair and getting tows from our allies. They’re unreliable and almost impossible to work on. It’s embarrassing. Sure they’re cool on paper but in reality they’re not nearly as useful as they should be.
I mean, this is at least better than not having ANY use, which seems to be where they're sitting right now, but when these hypersonic weapons systems are integrated into the Virginia-class attack subs, the subs are going to generally dominate the role of a long-range stealth sniper in most situations even compared to a super-stealthy surface ship like a Zumwalt. Granted, the mix of sensors, command and control, and ability to field helicopters probably gives the Zumwalt a unique set of capabilities compared to an attack sub, and at least this way, they finally have some teeth behind them.
I was thinking the same thing. This is a cool idea, but it seems like a sub is going to be even more stealthy and just as deadly once equipped with the hypersonic missiles.
To my understanding the missile going on the zumwalt will be way too big to go on an attack sub. Otherwise they'd be throwing it on the Arleigh Burkes too
The Zumwalt class was built without clear purpose and has been a big waste as a result. Agree that the case scenarios described could be done by sub platform
@@sportsfreak33393 Just a make a smaller missile. The sub can go closer. Subs can go way closer than any stealth surface ship for the simple reason that surface ships can be SEEN.
DDX 1002 sits outside my shop. Been staring at it for a year and a half wondering what the plans for the future are. They are keeping it low key. I take pride in fabricating systems for whatever the plan is!
The surface fleet is old school. They demanded a "big gun on the front" despite protest. NGAD proves that the tech is there to develop a fleet of the future, but the navy doesn't have the appetite for it. Maybe when the current generation of admirals retires we'll see the chains come off development.
Could you do a video about the future of Shorad? Will short range air defense provided by the laser stryker? Will the Bradley replacement IFV XM30 function as an anti air cannon? Should the US look at the SkyRanger / Skynex / millenium gun system? And will there be a Stinger replacement with a better battery, targeting, and most importantly more affordable? Or is this affordable future the APKWS guidance upgrade for the cheap and plentiful Hydra 70mm rocket? Should we slap that on Avenger Hummvees? Or IRIS-T? And how are M-shorad Strykers doing? The new EAGLS?!
We are still only testing lasers on a couple amphibious ships and destroyers 6-10 can’t recall .. our systems are lagging unfortunately, we’ve allowed generational engineering expertise to atrophy in key highest levels military technologies. Totally unbelievable how those in power have allowed critical technologies skills capabilities to degrade.. these are technologies NOBODY can shortcut. The handling of this is treasonous in my opinion..
@@mickparkinson207 manufacturing is the same story as v@ccines, d1vers1ty and other things in the military. Biden has pushed us closer to war with a worse military. They optimized the elites grift for more money without work, while totally screwing over workers and soldiers. Squeezing out more taxes out of less people that pay. From Haliburton contracts to the big 5 getting more and more contracts and delivering less and less quality on time and budget. It's all do less for more money. Everybody wants a nice corner office and shareholder value, nobody wants to do the actual work.
The tale of the Zumwalt class makes a good arguement for a lot more full-scale testing before committing to a full-up design using those systems and technologies.
It's perfect. Today's ships will have ~40 missiles on board that need reloading in port. You got hundreds of these things incoming, no way you can shoot them all down. Plus they're cheap (or)
Zumwalt was built for the Hegemon war. For some stupid reason politicians thought we should focus on small time middle east dictators instead of general global control.
The YF-23 can be updated. The F-22 is just about frozen and most of its upgrade options are no longer possible. There was point where they were going use F-35 electronics and avionics in the F-22. But the YF-23 now? Yes. Not new is not Antique. Especially when you are so far ahead of the curve people who matter still think the brass made a mistake no choosing the 23. And with greater stealth, longer range without extra tanks, having access to newer electronics/avionics, more up to date weapons, makes it the right choice, if they had made it or opted to build both planes. The 23 is the right plane for what America has before it. I know you are just trying to get a rise. But the truth is the F-22 was chosen for really two reasons, 1) The F-22 is better at something not likely to happen anymore, dogfighting, (Even then, the 23 would fly rings around just about anything Russia or China can throw at it even now.. and never see it do it) and 2) the brass was trying to keep the MIC going by not giving the stealth bomber and the ATF to the same company. Could have given the manufacturing contract to someone else. The YF-23 is still epochs better than anything Not American flying then and now.
They really ought to make a 60ft stretched version with an A1B reactor plant, a center mounted MW class Free Electron Laser for ABM defense, and install a rail gun up front. Along with its new hypersonic missile capability. Now, you've got a new Heavy Cruiser to replace all the Ticonderogas that can keep up with the carriers.
ever since I heard of the refit I was always secretly hoping, however unlikely it actually is, that this new capability would encourage them to restart production of these bad boys.
It is to a single forced air outlet what an old school UK radar station is to AESA. It has holes all over that it blows to change course. Darpa doesn't do interview or leaks. If you've read their press report, then that's what you got unless you are read into the project. This guy doesn't do any real reporting. The War Zone, the Aviationist, Defense One, etc... They are just summaries from an article at one of those sites at best and more often than not a defense company's press release or ad campaign. He just makes loud banging noises and doesn't tell you, well, usually the most important parts of the articles, so that with the rockin' tunes, you think, yeah, we are a bad ass rock and roll country and go fast and be stronk!
Refit the Zumwalts with the originally intended offensive ammunition, and put together three littoral combat fleets, with one Zumwalt, two of different types of marine amphibious assault ships, several littoral combat ships, and a guided missile submarine and you’ve created an extremely lethal brown water task force.
Great episode, Alex! Love these ships and glad to see there getting greater capabilities and will actually be useful in future wars. Keep up the great work!
Killer video. Thanks for actually showing the guns the Zumwalt was supposed to have no one actually gets into the details of those. Totally answered so many questions I've had for years about that ship
I've always thought that the gun system wasn't the real intent of the Zumwalt class and the reason, the massive electrical output these ships are capable. Laser comes to mind.
Yeah, this mythical gun system they ended up not being able to afford ammunition for was a railgun. You needed all that power to operate multiple magnetic coil systems to propel the projectiles at near-hypersonic speeds. The Navy could have turned the Zumwalt into a sniper much earlier, by simply designing a less-sophisticated round. I remember reading articles, when the railgun concept was first being explored...their test round were just cubes of different materials, and they actually had to dial down the launch speeds because some of the test round were burning up in flight on their way to the target. Something like that could fire a tungsten rod with enough kinetic energy to do massive damage, but the Navy wanted ALL the bells and whistles...
@@AllTradesGeorge The cancelled the railgun several years ago. The weapon was too fragile. The magnetic forces generated was hard to shield against and could fire too few rounds before it need to b maintained. The Zumwalt was built with railgun and lasers in mind, yes. But that was intended as a upgrade potential including new sensors etc. The navy didn't intend to immediately mount railguns or anything like that, just to keep that potential open.
@@AllTradesGeorge The AGS was not a railgun system. It was mostly a slightly fancier 155mm naval gun (like those found on every Arleigh-Burke destroyer) that could only take the extra special ammo that added range and cost $800k per shot when all was said and done.
Will be the first surface ship in the world combining stealth and hypersonic weapons. That is how to turn an apparent "failure" into a uniquely powerful weapon. There will be regret that it was cut to three.
No, a real win would be the USN not wasting its design and procuring 20 more the replace the Flight I Burke A Flight II DDG-1000 would retain a single 155mm naval gun but smartly improved so it has commonality with existing 155mm rounds like M982 Excalibur and others but most important, it can use the 155mm variant of the hyper velocity rounds from the EMRG program. While the 5 inch variant have promise The 155mm variant has several advantages. First, there are precision guided 155mm rounds so adapting their seeker to the 155m HVP is simple task but more importantly the 155mm HVP delivers substantially more kinetic energy on impact The advanced payload module would be able to carry either 12 TLAMs or 3 LRHW. The MK-57 able to use SM-3, SM-6, Patriot MSE and THAADs and lastly fully AEGIS capability
@@jaybee9269 I do like the DDGX current design but the DDG-1000 has more room to grow into a far more capable ship Same as the Independence class LCS just wasted potential
Our defense contractors may be delivering cool weapons systems, but I think they're overcharging as much as possible, which hurts our national security.
No, everything is replaceable, but our troops. This new equipment just makes us more efficient, but it is the people doing the unaliving. We have equipment sitting on the sideline waiting for a job.
@@HavalinaSSUSMC shut the hell up, it takes like 10 years to make a sub or destroyer, that sound replaceable during war time? learn to think before commenting
I disagree. We had no problem replacing hardware during the Vietnam War, despite high attrition rates. What eventually did us in, was our inability to accept loss of human life. More expensive hardware that saves human lives, is paramount to US's ability to engage in a long war.
The missiles themselves are going to be expensive. The LRHW is expected to be $41 million per round, and even Chinese and Russian hypersonics are believed to be more than $10 million each.
Hypersonic weapons? How will the enemy tell if it's armed with a conventional warhead or with a nuke? Does it even make sense to assume that it carries a conventional warhead?
They literally WERE the blueprint for the next generation of destroyers. Like the F-22, there was little justification for building super stealthy ships when the US was fighting insurgents.
@@Rob_F8FAnd US military could not see 10 years into the future to see how it could be critical against China or Russia. The real issue is that the US spends most of our money on Entitlements and could use a fraction of that to fund the entire Zumwalt program.
Yes and no. The military starts and cancels deep forward thinking projects in order to put it in the back pocket for when costs come down. Zumwalt, for instance, will inform ddg(x) and many if the innovations pioneered by Zumwalt will be part of ddg(x)'s DNA. F22 was an aberration in that it was intended to be the eagle replacement, but congress got stupid and canceled an operational program that was completely finished and ready because they believed the COIN hype. Was pretty stupid, but alas.
Another great video! Wasn't the Zumwalt originally intended to be a platform for the railgun? (The main reason for the immense power production capability.) "It's too expensive" sounds laughable after the pentagon failed yet another audit. The bloated and corrupt industrial military complex has to take some of the blame for the cost of the Zumwalts.
As long as the launching platform can remain outside the capability of the adversary’s detection capabilities it doesn’t matter what exactly it is. As long as the missiles are capable enough. I refer you to the continuing use of the Buff and Eagle EX. As airframes yesterday’s tech - BUT with modern sensors and munitions extremely dangerous.
meanwhile, Italian and German frigates mount the OtoBreda 127/64. When employing Vulcano long-range guided munition, that thing can hit 120 km away with a maximum rate of fire of 40 rounds per minute, basically matching in scale the performance of the Zumwalt cannons (155 km from a 150 mm cannon).
Or... open up the bids and stop feature creep. Let private companies compete and buy fewer from more of them instead of demanding 100% cross compatibility. The acquisition rules themselves are to blame.
@@CryosxifyThe government doesn’t do anything cheap and can’t even manage itself. Having a shipyard actually building ships managed by the government would be a disaster.
The stupid thing abotu Zumwalts was AGS and idea to make it gun-battleship. Other than that, it could continue to have been built nd serve as CCG(X) - are these Multiple All-up Round Canisters the same as on Virginia subs?
I have a little family-skin in this game. My uncle (my mother's cousin, but was like a brother) was Cpt Edwin "Leigh" Ebbert, USN who, after retiring as a naval aviator (survived the Forrestal incident) took his NPGS/Princeton Aeronautical Eng MS (COS@NRL) to Johns Hopkins' Applied Physics Lab and was part of the team who did the theoretical thumbnailing of the NGD. In our short conversations about the early NGD, he would never say what part of the design he was responsible for, but I'd guess it was either some part of the fluid dynamics issues and reducing 'water noise' vs the radar-return-reduction issues. Or something else... In any case, he was always good at thinking outside the box. RIP Uncle Leigh (2007) You survived a hellacious auto wreck at age 77, but couldn't survive the thought of the injuries your wife Jean had suffered. He died of a broken heart, just 9 days later.
the NAVY is what went wrong , they decided they didn't want to buy the ammo in volume so the price per shot went insane and then the navy complained the price per shot was insane, the boats are really good and the front handles rough seas better than a normal bow.
Well, the navy is not independently wealthy with it's own source of funds. Every year, it has to ask mummy for money. And one day, mummy said _money's tight dear, we've got to start saving and spend less._ So the navy went around and look for things to cut. But it also cannot just go ahead and cut whatever it wants. It must check with mummy first. _Can we get rid of the Little Crappy Ships?_ _No, those stays. Your uncle is making those, and he really need the business. In fact, you're other uncle's business is also in trouble, so we will have him make another version, just as useless, but entirely different, so this makes your logistics costs twice as expensive. Find something else to cut._
@@balkan_thoughts-zt7pr all new boats have issues these were brand new all over so the first lot were always going to be problems anyone claiming otherwise is just dumb
This video has been up for 8 minutes. It's 24.5 minutes long. Comments posted before it's even possible for them to have watched the video should be given lower priority
I still think that submarines would have been a better use of funds. To be clear I don't even think these things would need to be "deep water" submarines as being able to submerge 5m below the surface of the sea would give it a radar cross section of exactly 0 which is much smaller than my uncle's fishing boat. In this way they could ditch the smooth spherical design common on most submarines for one that is most practical for surface operations. It wouldn't be intended to operate the same way a submarine does but would be intended to operate more like a surface ship but one that can go under water a bit to avoid any incoming missiles or to go under water to sneak up on an opponent Again they could basically have been cheaper submarines.
@@tyharris9994 Um ford class costs 13B a piece in 2018 dollars. Not sure where your math is off but it is. Regardless an aircraft carrier isn't always the best tool. They were obviously prioritizing missions that require stealth in the design which means they intended these to get close to the shores of the enemy. You probably wouldn't want to do that with an aircraft carrier but a submarine would work just fine.
@@chaosfenix Marine Engineer here. Smooth spherical design of submarines is not optimized for surface sailing, it is optimized for below surface sailing. A design optimized for surface sailing would look like a destroyer hull.
@@thekraken1173 My point is that you may not even need a smooth spherical design. We use the smooth spherical design to optimize for below surface sailing but the thing is that my proposal explicitly says they wouldn't need to be deep water. Something even like a semi-submersible lift ship would have the same reduction in radar cross section that the zumwalt did. Again I am not saying these things need to go 200-300 meters or more below the water. 20-30 would be enough to reduce the RCS and the pressures at 20-30 meters are much lower than what subs are built to withstand. I am going to head off another argument in that a submersible only 20-30m down would be easily detectable and that it therefore isn't save. It all depends on how you use them. Yes if you treat the ship like a normal submarine that is designed to stealthily go anywhere without even being seen then yes this wont do that, but that isn't what we ask of any of our other naval ships. We know they can be seen from above or nearby vessels. That is why we use them together. They have other defense mechanisms. And fundamentally their primary mission is not stealth but presence. The design wouldn't be a sniper operating behind enemy lines but a designated marksman that operates as part of a fire team. A shallow submersible could spend 90% of its days on the surface just like any other submersible but could then submerge for the 10% of the time when stealth from radar matters. This could be when avoiding detection or it could be when avoiding enemy fire.
The US Navy should just stick with the modified oil tankers with landing decks for resupply and add in missile pods similar to Rapid Dragon and allow them to launch vertically or load quickly on Ospreys.
Having one of these with air to air missile interceptors and long range ballistic or hypersonic missile in combination with a aircraft carrier would be sick
Only three Seawolf's and now we could use another half dozen at least. Same with the F-22 after 40 + billion dollars in development. It turns out we could really use another 150-200 Raptors so we wouldn't have to jam through advancements in 6th gen - we would have been protected through the 2040's. There is no plane like the Raptor or a sub like the Seawolf. And then the Zumwalt. The seven ships the buy was whittled down to would have provided a LOT of additional capability, but no. Who the heck is making these historically ignorant decisions? And why? This may seem a strange question but do we have a problem with elevating to power people who don't really think the U.S. should succeed? I certainly hope that is just a paranoid thought.
Nice to see that the US Navy FINALLY found a good use for the Zumwalt class "destroyers". It's like me buying a 9 mm PCC (RUGER PC) and FINALLY finding a use for the range toy by competing in Steel Challenge. The Navy, Like me, likely feels better now that its fancy toy actually has a use beyond eye candy.
The Zumwalt class has been a boondoggle from the start and reflects the deep refusal of the Navy to learn any lessons from their procurement failures of the last 20 years. Zumwalt, Gerald Ford, LCS, Constellation. Consistently, we try to cram too much new tech into these designs, while starting construction before designs are even completed! And as a result, we consistently end up wasting billions and billions of dollars over budget while our surface fleet shrinks in the meantime. So now the Zumwalt class has essentially become a 25 billion dollar testing bed for hypersonics while we have 40 year old Ticonderogas and Arleigh Burkes on our front lines.
You're absolutely right! The Zumwalt-class destroyers have had a rocky journey, but their refitting to carry hypersonic missiles could indeed give them a new lease on life. The Navy is replacing the original Advanced Gun Systems with missile tubes for the Conventional Prompt Strike (CPS) weapon1. This upgrade will enable the Zumwalt-class to launch hypersonic missiles, which can travel at speeds exceeding Mach 5 and strike targets over 2,775 kilometers (1,724 miles) away1.
They're not drones. Can drones stay aloft for hours and hours at a time? Completely silent? Can drones go from zero to Hypersonic in less than a second? No, they can't. I don't know what they are, but they're not drones.
@@dextermorgan1 Yes, new technology flying over military bases that nobody knows what they are. Some might even call them top-secret. Top-secret experimental new tech flying over … military bases? Just where you would expect top secret military tech to be tested… if they are aliens! Especially the ones right around Picatinny Arsenal in NJ, where many were sighted and where, what do you know, they just so happen to test experimental military tech. Def aliens. And right… drones can’t stay in the air for long? Our 20 years old Predator drones can stay in the air for as long as 40 hours. And how sure are you they go from zero to hypersonic in less than a second? Something tells me you have been fear-mongered into a state of stupidity. Who is feeding you this nonsense? The absolute dopes at Redacted, maybe? Touch grass and snap out of it, bud. Good luck.
Thank you for your "ferret-like" information access and ability to tell an Old Salt about tech in a way I get. LOVE Air Power!! I actually enjoy all your videos, no matter the subject, but Air Power and Sea Power are my main interest. Aviation nerd from birth, US Navy Veteran from the 1980 era. You Rock!!
If they would stop cutting programs they would actually save money. Just because we aren’t “technically” in any wars doesn’t mean we won’t be eventually. Keep building the best we can at any given time and fulfill the program. Everything they have stopped is better than anyone else has…. Hence f22, sr71, zumwalt, potentially NGAD, and whatever has been created that we don’t know about publicly
F-22 is outdated. The SR-71 has been retired for decades..? If you're referring to the SR-72, that's vaporware dude. The Zumwalt was a failure, and NGAD is on the cusp of being cancelled at this point if you payed attention to any of the news about it within the past few months and literally two days ago.
Pretty sure Zumwalt's stealth is defeated by the radar "shadow" it casts. Instead of seeing radar return off the ocean and waves behind the Zumwalt's location, enemy radars see no return at all. It's the same way passive sonar detects enemy subs, by looking where there is no or reduced background noise where there should be.
@@Winkkin You can't have seen Zumwalts in Menominee for the last two years. The Zumwalt herself has been at Ingalls in Mississippi for the last 15 months getting the launcher talked about in the video. The LBJ has been undergoing weapons system installation at the same shipyard for the last two years. And the Michael Monsoor is based out of San Diego. And I personally know that those ships aren't Zumwalts because I was up there within that period visiting relatives in Crivitz, and I always swing by the shipyards to see what's docked there. The ships you've seen are Freedom-class littoral combat ships, which are less than 400 feet long. The yards at Menominee are getting enlarged to allow construction of the 500-foot Constellation-class frigates. The yards cannot handle a 600-foot Zumwalt.
lol 4bil per sounds kinda cheap now considering we short on boats..... and china is not..... that price seems pretty good for its stealth factors alone
You are not wrong. The navy should accelerate sub production and build a smaller, mass produced diesel electric for coastal and island defense with a nasty mix of missiles and torpedoes. And build a bunch to land troops near a shoreline.
Even if the Zumwalt's onboard tracking and targeting radar lacks range, it can still network with other theater assets to share capabilities, so the Zumwalt can "see" much further than its own radar.
@16:10 I'm getting increasingly frustrated with this channel. It's a Defense industry sales channel. The Zumwalt failed because everything was substantially more expensive and less firepower performant. Carriers provided more bang for the buck and this floating economy of a warship did not meet design and cost specifications. Should have opened with these facts front loaded.
I'm with you on that. This channel is a propaganda channel for the US military. I love military equipment, but a lot of the things said here are straight from the mainstream media. Luckily, most people nowadays know that the mainstream media is nothing but BS.
I think he laid those facts out pretty well in a good flow. Sounds like you are looking for a short and something a little more anti-American and against the military, if I’m not mistaken? I think Jane Fonda might have a TickTock. Should be perfect for you. This channel presents weapon systems and new tech and mostly from America … or as you weirdly described it… a defense industry sales channel. However, pretty sure none of us are in the market for any of these weapons. Weird comment, bud.
@@Lifes-little-moments Sorry dude, your scarecrow of my character sticks like teflon. I'm a 3 time war veteran from infantry to engineer for a major company who is intimately knowledgeable about what I am criticizing. Firm supporter of DOGE because I seen from within the waste of tax payer dollars. More to the point, Alex's content is very fanboyish. He is benefiting from access to information by these Defense companies and is genuinely well informed but he is too reluctant to criticize the products my observation.
Do you not hear him at 18:12 saying the ship doesn't have much to offer in the fight. The systems themselves are amazing and he should be speaking of them. Put them all together with the navy's goofy planning and this is what happens.
They put the hypersonic missile on the LCS-1 mono hull. Where the fly deck is and have them tag along behind DDGs. That would finely give them something to do.
They need to get the Wisconsin, Iowa and Missouri back to ready for service. The cost was much better for the ship and the ammo costs are a lot better. The ships could be used for so many things that now cost 10 times what a barrage would cost and the Iowa class can be restocked in rough sea the others need to dock. They may be old but they are still useful and cost much less.
So this is a mission where you need stealth and vertical launch tubes. That's what you would normally use subs for, and subs also easily outstealth these ships.
Costs were rising because economy of scale, every time they (John McCain) cut the number of ships it raised the cost of the remaining ships. It was also going to carry rail guns, before the long-range gun.
I love the new mission, but the reason the ammo became so expensive was the cut down to only 3 ships instead of 32, which drastically put the ammo out of reach cost wise.
I remember hearing about at least one of the Zumwalt's getting retrofitted to serve as the testbed for railgun artillery years ago. It's a shame that route up the tech tree didn't pan out.
The problem with missles is there expensive. Shells are way cheaper. Missles are great but in a long war shells are alot easier to make. Hopefully these new destroyers come out good and become super powerful so the money spent isnt wasted
I've been a supporter of the Zumwalt class since it was announced, though it's combat roll kind of evaporated. With hypersonic missiles they can deliver a huge threat to an adversary. I foresee smaller, stealth frigates for anti-submarine weapons to hunt down enemy subs.
Once this conversion is done the Zumwalts should be re-classified as cruisers. Their mission won't be to escort larger fleets, it will be to go off on solo missions hunting enemy ships, which is the traditional role of a cruiser.
Go to ground.news/Sandboxx to stay fully informed on military developments around the world. Subscribe through my link right now for 50% off their Vantage Plan, which is what I use everyday.
Can we get a video on chinas new white emperor stealth 6th gen fighter??
this video could have started at 18 minutes - but then I had to go watch another video to get REAL information on this actual missile project... so it was basically useless. Look Alex. I don't get whats happening with this channel. maybe you are running out of things to talk about. or maybe your priorities are just views. But you are making videos just filler. Like with the Anril stuff. you made 3 videos when 1 would have been fine. its just getting bad.
I hope that you somehow get this,Alex. I love Sandboxx. I appreciate ya. I'm astonished at your knowledge, young man. I'm Army, but air power is my real hobby. Lol. Keep up the amazing videos,buddy.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if this destroyer ends up being without peer in naval combat. And they got cut early reminiscent of the raptor.
I will submit that is already the case and you are completely correct.
Super ironic 😂
Yup. And now Elon Musk wants to kill the F-35 before block 4.. Kind of sad
lol. even if it isnt top tier i bet they are kickin their own butts for having cut so many from production when its very apparent now we are short on vessels
@MrGriff305-d3u No, he doesn't. BTW, look at the US Air Force for who is responsible for 'pausing' the super NGAD and the US Army for ending the new helicopter. Both changes are tied to recent AI and drone developments.
Feels like Zumwalt should have been a missile destroyer with a more conventional single gun from the get go. Missile tech just evolves so much faster.
@@Future-Preps35
It's always better to take a cannon to a gunfight than a knife 💥
The problem is it’s made to do a stealth destroyer but also do the battleship job. It’s a failed attempt at this, the problem is there is many high up who like the battleships and many do not. The battleships could work but aren’t don’t correctly if the main guns was 16 guns with some missiles, and anti air and some torpedoes I think it would be better .
Their prices escalate so much faster, too. The "minimissile" capability of the GPS guided projectile at a reasonable cost was the real draw, and would have at least met the original idea if not for limited production.
They already have missle destroyers, and missile cruisers. The idea of a gun destroyer was so they could fire $35,000 shells instead of $2,000,000 missiles. Scale of production just meant the shells weren't that cheap any more.
@@TrogglemanI do wonder if today a gun like that could be done more economically, especially if they were willing to give up a little range. Doesn't the Army already have gps guided artillery rounds?
One night my wife and I were visiting Bath maine and were just looking out over the river, when almost completely silent, the Zumwalt passed us heading out to sea. I've never seen anything that big being that quiet, It gave off this vibe of " Excuse me, I am new here, who's ass do I kick first"
*laughs in CVN*
It's a boondoggle over priced and hyped failed weapon system a sitting duck and even with those new missles still utterly useless other than being a jobs program ... need I say goverment cheese much?
Silent but, meh, just don't be an all wooden shrimp boat and let it ram you and you're good, not really deadly.
I live in Virginia by the Chesapeake Bay in Hampton. I fish at the piers on the Fort Monroe National Monument often and we can see the carriers across the James River in Norfolk. I have pictures of a couple carriers going in and out, and several submarines too. Also I see other Navy ships I can't identify but some kind of battleship or maybe missile cruisers. And supply ships. It's pretty cool to see. A lot of helicopters and the airplanes with the radar dish on top.
From Langley AFB we have F-22's flying over a lot too.
I just moved here in 2023 and I like seeing all the military stuff. We see SEALs and Coast Guard and all kinds of law enforcement and security too.
@@dustinmark6808 The USS LONG BEACH was also a one in class and onyl nuclear powered cruiser ever.
I was a TLAM technician in the navy and love following this technology advance but 3600 mph and 1700+ mile range is an incredible leap forward.
I'm saddened that the rail gun never made it into service. Projectiles with muzzle velocities in excess of Mach 9 (6906 mph) bring a whole new meaning to the term firepower. The cost of a suitable APFSDS round being less than a 155mm artillery projectile. It would likely require a submarine class nuclear reactor on board to provide the power for sustained bombardments. The KE or destructive power of a depleted uranium penetrator (half the mass times the velocity squared) at Mach 9 needs a few minutes to register in the brain bucket.
@ The Big E made enough power. 8 reactors
@@somenygaard That would certainly have be enough for rail guns plural. But she was BIG with the RCS of a city. Imagine that immense firepower with a 200 mile range. On several destroyer or frigate sized vessels with the RCS of rowing boats. Now consider that firepower slaved to the modern multidomain battle space. Target identification provided by every surveillance satellite, drone, F35, USMC or SEAL team on shore. Ready to respond within seconds.
I'm closing in on 70 y/o and hope I live long enough to at least know such things are in service. My serving grandsons deserve such firepower backing them up.
A battleship letting loose is an awesome sight. To friendly forces, that is.
I think it would be awesome either way. Friendly forces just get to watch longer and from a better (safer) vantage point. :)
Over a hundred years they've been an incredible sight.
We gotta bring back the Wisconsin and it's legendary temper. It can carry 1200 rounds the size of a Chevy Malibu. That coastal barrage would be insane and the armor is so thick it'd never sink. They were built differently back then, it's a floating tank. A very angry floating tank.
I wish was around in the 50’ to see them at their height. Just brutal firepower!
@@davewebster5120 I hear you about it being a floating tank. Especially when you consider both the armor and armaments. The saying, "it takes a licking and keeps on ticking" definitely fits those ships. And the guns fire shells as big as an SUV.
But the Titanic would like to speak to you about making an "unsinkable" claim. It wouldn't be easy, and one could argue it won't happen unless you get lucky and find a chink in it's armor. But it certainly can sink.
From what I've read of simulated engagements, they already are powerhouse's in spite of their neutered guns, because trading some missile capacity for stealth was a pretty good idea, like with the f-22 from the f-15.
Now they're even better
A power house at what? Neutered guns is an understatement. At least something Neutered was once there. You know what else has a very tiny radar cross section and a lot of missiles? Well, to be fair, no matter the size, it would still just be a boat. By the way, the stealth thing, they kinda dumped that too when they went with the cheaper steel not composite deck house on 2 of the 3. The thing has an all custom missile radar and software system to he point that apparently the Zumwalt is in fact the ONLY thing Aegis can't go all skynet on. They literally cannot do the same thing on this ship to get a missile to do what it does in the same manner that it does on any other Destroyer or few Cruisers left in the fleet. That is not a good thing by the way. If anything new related to Aegis, which for the US fleet is the surface fleet, Zumwalt can't use it. The second ship? Already needs a brand new turbine. That's like a 10 year old needing a new heart. Then there's the reason you haven't seen one in so long is: right, they all really, really, want to be a submarine when they grow up, hull design. So, what copium have you be injected directly into your heart? Because much like most of this video, it was really out of date, you should go have that looked at quick.
@anguswaterhouse9255 ya no ever heard of ice ? Completely ruins a ships stealth planes stealth to
I think you mean to say they are power plants. Hook em up to the grid and power a town.
@@LackofFaithify you’re referring to all the problems this ship has had, which I’m not disputing but that’s due to teething issues with the new technology.
When they got the ships working and ran simulated engagements, the zumwalt did rather well due to it being so difficult to track and target.
And no, it’s not just a submarine, it can do things submarines can’t, like launch helicopters and provide air defence.
The ship has an AEGIS equivalent, it’s just not called AEGIS BTW
@@dustinmark6808 ice doesn’t ruin stealth, that’s one of the many myths of stealth such as low wavelength radar beating it.
There’s a little bit of truth in there, but the final conclusion is wrong, stealth still works
Prior service Army here. Oldest son is currently in the Navy. Youngest will be joining the Air Force soon. I say all that, to say this. The Navy and Air Force have severely dropped the ball and have let the American people down. They are trying to fix it now. A lot of what they are doing to fix it is reported here by Sandboxx and his many video's. But, my god, I understand the Army and Marines being fixated on GWOT and insurgency. Maybe even a little bit with the Air Force as well. But the Navy has no excuse. Here's to hoping they get their chit together soon enough.
I’d could forgive the GWOT issues if it had to do with mission creep, but it didn’t … it was to steal tax payer money, launder it, and divide the proceeds among politicians and generals.
No accountability.
Than as if that’s not bad enough, we get publicly humiliated by a rag tag group of ‘Islamic Purists’ that find it impure to educate women, but open molest children….
Then there was the DEI takeover. The gays already own the Space Force, and half the Air Force….
4:04 if you already know about ground news and want to skip them
Thanks!
Merci!
I'm getting so tired of hearing about that app
I do not trust Ground News.
@@wstavis3135 If you can't trust a source that has already been shown to be exactly what it advertised, then who do you trust? Tucker Carlson or Alex Jones? I hear they are passionate about what they do... 🥴
With all those megawatts they should mount several of the new laser beam weapons on it!
Eh lasers are helpful but not the end all we think of in SciFi, they really only work up to five miles out and the losses over distance are severe anyway. I mean don't get me wrong it needs to be part of the defense plan but for the time being a C-RAM with programmable AA rounds just make more sense. We could use all that energy for microwave weapons though. If we can direct a microwave energy beam (excluding when it rains) it'll have far less interference from the atmosphere and can still fry drones, missiles, and aircraft. If we can do it safely.
That's still secret.
Wrong mission set, lasers aren't offensive weapons and this is an offensive platform. Laser weapons are best deployed in carrier strike groups as another tool to protect the fleet.
@@Pyromanemac This like any other weapons platform needs both.
True. The speed of light is faster than hypersonic. But I’m not sure that technology is quite ready. Distance and weather are still things that laser systems need to overcome. But the Zumwalt could be a great platform once the laser technology is fully developed.
They made a naval F22 raptor with only a gun, and cancelled it. Now they want to put an aim260 on it.
None of that really makes sense, you said “F-22” as if it’s a bad thing, it was (and remains) the most advanced and lethal (from an aerodynamics and kinematics point of view) fighter ever built, 30 years after its first flight.
Also, the Zumwalts have EXTENSIVE VLS capability. I have no clue why you say they only gave it a gun.
They also gave it the excess power generation of FOUR ENTIRE CRUISERS.
That’s no small feat.. it’s technologically incredible.
These hypersonic weapons are a stop-gap, mark my word. These WILL be the first ships to operate high-powered directed energy weapons. That’s exactly why all that power was put there for a reason, and why much of the ship is modular (something not really talked about in this video, but was a MASSIVE reason for the initial r&d cost ironically.)
@@EstorilEmHe didn't mean it as a bad thing. He said that because it shows how the US military has consistently canceled systems before they can reach their full potential.
@@memeityy The Defense Dept bureaucracy is the biggest headache of new programs causing delays and bloat. Cut this and you'll see near immediate reductions in cost with faster development times. It's why we badly need a good look over by this DOGE under Trump.
@@EstorilEmit’s too bad they’re always in port for repair and getting tows from our allies. They’re unreliable and almost impossible to work on. It’s embarrassing. Sure they’re cool on paper but in reality they’re not nearly as useful as they should be.
@@ItsEricAZ wonder how many contracts spacex will conveniently get...
I mean, this is at least better than not having ANY use, which seems to be where they're sitting right now, but when these hypersonic weapons systems are integrated into the Virginia-class attack subs, the subs are going to generally dominate the role of a long-range stealth sniper in most situations even compared to a super-stealthy surface ship like a Zumwalt. Granted, the mix of sensors, command and control, and ability to field helicopters probably gives the Zumwalt a unique set of capabilities compared to an attack sub, and at least this way, they finally have some teeth behind them.
I was thinking the same thing. This is a cool idea, but it seems like a sub is going to be even more stealthy and just as deadly once equipped with the hypersonic missiles.
Right, a sub can be somewhat stealthy but NOT a ship. If it is on the surface it is not capable of stealth below the surface.
To my understanding the missile going on the zumwalt will be way too big to go on an attack sub.
Otherwise they'd be throwing it on the Arleigh Burkes too
The Zumwalt class was built without clear purpose and has been a big waste as a result. Agree that the case scenarios described could be done by sub platform
@@sportsfreak33393 Just a make a smaller missile. The sub can go closer. Subs can go way closer than any stealth surface ship for the simple reason that surface ships can be SEEN.
$800,000 artillery shells is too expensive
$20,000,000 hypersonic missile is just right
Cheaper than losing a carrier.
and which supposed near peer is going to threaten any carrier?.
@@slugface322 China
@@slugface322 China's long range hypersonic missiles. That's what this destroyer is supposed to neutralize.
chyna will Never fight US
DDX 1002 sits outside my shop. Been staring at it for a year and a half wondering what the plans for the future are. They are keeping it low key. I take pride in fabricating systems for whatever the plan is!
Zumwalt wasn't ahead of its time. The mandate for guns was always insane. It should have been a stealth missile cruiser all along.
Yes. It should be released to a CG type.
The surface fleet is old school. They demanded a "big gun on the front" despite protest. NGAD proves that the tech is there to develop a fleet of the future, but the navy doesn't have the appetite for it. Maybe when the current generation of admirals retires we'll see the chains come off development.
Cute, logistic failures like that is hilarious. No, replenish those missles at sea.
@Pyromanemac you can't beat the physics of throwing rocks kid.
@@GrigoriZhukov try replenishing guns at sea...
Coolest looking ship ever made
Could you do a video about the future of Shorad?
Will short range air defense provided by the laser stryker? Will the Bradley replacement IFV XM30 function as an anti air cannon? Should the US look at the SkyRanger / Skynex / millenium gun system? And will there be a Stinger replacement with a better battery, targeting, and most importantly more affordable? Or is this affordable future the APKWS guidance upgrade for the cheap and plentiful Hydra 70mm rocket? Should we slap that on Avenger Hummvees? Or IRIS-T? And how are M-shorad Strykers doing? The new EAGLS?!
We are still only testing lasers on a couple amphibious ships and destroyers 6-10 can’t recall .. our systems are lagging unfortunately, we’ve allowed generational engineering expertise to atrophy in key highest levels military technologies.
Totally unbelievable how those in power have allowed critical technologies skills capabilities to degrade.. these are technologies NOBODY can shortcut.
The handling of this is treasonous in my opinion..
@@mickparkinson207 manufacturing is the same story as v@ccines, d1vers1ty and other things in the military.
Biden has pushed us closer to war with a worse military. They optimized the elites grift for more money without work, while totally screwing over workers and soldiers. Squeezing out more taxes out of less people that pay. From Haliburton contracts to the big 5 getting more and more contracts and delivering less and less quality on time and budget. It's all do less for more money. Everybody wants a nice corner office and shareholder value, nobody wants to do the actual work.
The tale of the Zumwalt class makes a good arguement for a lot more full-scale testing before committing to a full-up design using those systems and technologies.
Like the YF-23, the Zumwalt seems to be exactly the weapon system needed for the anticipated combat regime, namely China and their A2AD.
It's perfect. Today's ships will have ~40 missiles on board that need reloading in port. You got hundreds of these things incoming, no way you can shoot them all down. Plus they're cheap (or)
@@davewebster5120
At sea missile reloading testing is advancing well.
Zumwalt was built for the Hegemon war. For some stupid reason politicians thought we should focus on small time middle east dictators instead of general global control.
The YF-23 is and antique at this point in time.
The YF-23 can be updated. The F-22 is just about frozen and most of its upgrade options are no longer possible. There was point where they were going use F-35 electronics and avionics in the F-22. But the YF-23 now? Yes. Not new is not Antique. Especially when you are so far ahead of the curve people who matter still think the brass made a mistake no choosing the 23.
And with greater stealth, longer range without extra tanks, having access to newer electronics/avionics, more up to date weapons, makes it the right choice, if they had made it or opted to build both planes. The 23 is the right plane for what America has before it.
I know you are just trying to get a rise. But the truth is the F-22 was chosen for really two reasons, 1) The F-22 is better at something not likely to happen anymore, dogfighting, (Even then, the 23 would fly rings around just about anything Russia or China can throw at it even now.. and never see it do it) and 2) the brass was trying to keep the MIC going by not giving the stealth bomber and the ATF to the same company. Could have given the manufacturing contract to someone else.
The YF-23 is still epochs better than anything Not American flying then and now.
They really ought to make a 60ft stretched version with an A1B reactor plant, a center mounted MW class Free Electron Laser for ABM defense, and install a rail gun up front. Along with its new hypersonic missile capability. Now, you've got a new Heavy Cruiser to replace all the Ticonderogas that can keep up with the carriers.
ever since I heard of the refit I was always secretly hoping, however unlikely it actually is, that this new capability would encourage them to restart production of these bad boys.
A full video about the X65 and active flow control would be cool.
It is to a single forced air outlet what an old school UK radar station is to AESA. It has holes all over that it blows to change course. Darpa doesn't do interview or leaks. If you've read their press report, then that's what you got unless you are read into the project. This guy doesn't do any real reporting. The War Zone, the Aviationist, Defense One, etc... They are just summaries from an article at one of those sites at best and more often than not a defense company's press release or ad campaign. He just makes loud banging noises and doesn't tell you, well, usually the most important parts of the articles, so that with the rockin' tunes, you think, yeah, we are a bad ass rock and roll country and go fast and be stronk!
Refit the Zumwalts with the originally intended offensive ammunition, and put together three littoral combat fleets, with one Zumwalt, two of different types of marine amphibious assault ships, several littoral combat ships, and a guided missile submarine and you’ve created an extremely lethal brown water task force.
Great episode, Alex! Love these ships and glad to see there getting greater capabilities and will actually be useful in future wars. Keep up the great work!
Killer video. Thanks for actually showing the guns the Zumwalt was supposed to have no one actually gets into the details of those. Totally answered so many questions I've had for years about that ship
I've always thought that the gun system wasn't the real intent of the Zumwalt class and the reason, the massive electrical output these ships are capable. Laser comes to mind.
@@55Reever railgun
Yeah, this mythical gun system they ended up not being able to afford ammunition for was a railgun. You needed all that power to operate multiple magnetic coil systems to propel the projectiles at near-hypersonic speeds.
The Navy could have turned the Zumwalt into a sniper much earlier, by simply designing a less-sophisticated round. I remember reading articles, when the railgun concept was first being explored...their test round were just cubes of different materials, and they actually had to dial down the launch speeds because some of the test round were burning up in flight on their way to the target. Something like that could fire a tungsten rod with enough kinetic energy to do massive damage, but the Navy wanted ALL the bells and whistles...
@@AllTradesGeorge The cancelled the railgun several years ago. The weapon was too fragile. The magnetic forces generated was hard to shield against and could fire too few rounds before it need to b maintained. The Zumwalt was built with railgun and lasers in mind, yes. But that was intended as a upgrade potential including new sensors etc. The navy didn't intend to immediately mount railguns or anything like that, just to keep that potential open.
@@AllTradesGeorge The AGS was not a railgun system. It was mostly a slightly fancier 155mm naval gun (like those found on every Arleigh-Burke destroyer) that could only take the extra special ammo that added range and cost $800k per shot when all was said and done.
@JMurph2015 I stand corrected. I'm conflating different reports of what they'd intended to use, apparently.
Will be the first surface ship in the world combining stealth and hypersonic weapons.
That is how to turn an apparent "failure" into a uniquely powerful weapon.
There will be regret that it was cut to three.
Almost certainly, Chuck. The Air Farce surely regrets not having more F-22s.
No, a real win would be the USN not wasting its design and procuring 20 more the replace the Flight I Burke
A Flight II DDG-1000 would retain a single 155mm naval gun but smartly improved so it has commonality with existing 155mm rounds like M982 Excalibur and others
but most important, it can use the 155mm variant of the hyper velocity rounds from the EMRG program. While the 5 inch variant have promise
The 155mm variant has several advantages. First, there are precision guided 155mm rounds so adapting their seeker to the 155m HVP is simple task but more importantly the 155mm HVP delivers substantially more kinetic energy on impact
The advanced payload module would be able to carry either 12 TLAMs or 3 LRHW. The MK-57 able to use SM-3, SM-6, Patriot MSE and THAADs and lastly fully AEGIS capability
@ >> You are correct, sir!
@@verdebusterAP no thats too easy lets take 15 years to design something worse instead
@@jaybee9269
I do like the DDGX current design but the DDG-1000 has more room to grow into a far more capable ship
Same as the Independence class LCS
just wasted potential
It needs a laser for defense
It has the power to run direct energy weapons
Yessssssssss please Lasers
It will happen eventually i think
Pairing the Zumwalt's with one of the old Battleships would be a very intimidating combination.
Talk about unaffordable.
Our defense contractors may be delivering cool weapons systems, but I think they're overcharging as much as possible, which hurts our national security.
problem with america's military, everything cost too dam much and we can't replace it once its destroyed in war
No, everything is replaceable, but our troops. This new equipment just makes us more efficient, but it is the people doing the unaliving. We have equipment sitting on the sideline waiting for a job.
Somebody over pricing and being greedy that’s the problem
@@HavalinaSSUSMC shut the hell up, it takes like 10 years to make a sub or destroyer, that sound replaceable during war time? learn to think before commenting
I disagree. We had no problem replacing hardware during the Vietnam War, despite high attrition rates. What eventually did us in, was our inability to accept loss of human life. More expensive hardware that saves human lives, is paramount to US's ability to engage in a long war.
@ apples and oranges during the Vietnam conflict the United States had a conscription army.
Thank you for 'giving some love' for the Zumwalts...
The Zumwalt was to have been an arsenal ship with maximum VLS and ballistic missile silos
A ship like this should be able to deploy far more than 12!
The missiles themselves are going to be expensive. The LRHW is expected to be $41 million per round, and even Chinese and Russian hypersonics are believed to be more than $10 million each.
These missiles are HUGE. Zummie is the only ship in the fleet that will have them for now because of her great size.
Yeah sure we really need to spend more on weapons, that will never be needed.
@ a lot of the time the reason they're not needed is because that weapon already exists & it keeps a potential adversary from trying anything crazy.
Hypersonic weapons?
How will the enemy tell if it's armed with a conventional warhead or with a nuke? Does it even make sense to assume that it carries a conventional warhead?
The US should not have canceled the Zumwalt honestly. They could be the blueprint for the next generation of high capability destroyers
Or maybe they can make a smaller version of it specialized for only missile systems and the CPS.
Well, cancelled isn't deleted....they could very well be the jumping off point for the Next Generation Cruiser.
They literally WERE the blueprint for the next generation of destroyers.
Like the F-22, there was little justification for building super stealthy ships when the US was fighting insurgents.
@@Rob_F8FAnd US military could not see 10 years into the future to see how it could be critical against China or Russia. The real issue is that the US spends most of our money on Entitlements and could use a fraction of that to fund the entire Zumwalt program.
Yes and no.
The military starts and cancels deep forward thinking projects in order to put it in the back pocket for when costs come down.
Zumwalt, for instance, will inform ddg(x) and many if the innovations pioneered by Zumwalt will be part of ddg(x)'s DNA.
F22 was an aberration in that it was intended to be the eagle replacement, but congress got stupid and canceled an operational program that was completely finished and ready because they believed the COIN hype.
Was pretty stupid, but alas.
Another great informative show. Keep up the good work brother. Love these shows!
Another great video! Wasn't the Zumwalt originally intended to be a platform for the railgun? (The main reason for the immense power production capability.) "It's too expensive" sounds laughable after the pentagon failed yet another audit. The bloated and corrupt industrial military complex has to take some of the blame for the cost of the Zumwalts.
"This is sea power" now?.... Alex Hollings found some magic recipe.
As long as the launching platform can remain outside the capability of the adversary’s detection capabilities it doesn’t matter what exactly it is.
As long as the missiles are capable enough.
I refer you to the continuing use of the Buff and Eagle EX. As airframes yesterday’s tech - BUT with modern sensors and munitions extremely dangerous.
meanwhile, Italian and German frigates mount the OtoBreda 127/64. When employing Vulcano long-range guided munition, that thing can hit 120 km away with a maximum rate of fire of 40 rounds per minute, basically matching in scale the performance of the Zumwalt cannons (155 km from a 150 mm cannon).
Weapons are far too expensive from U.S. suppliers. They can ask for whatever price they want and get it, something has to be done to reduce prices.
Feels like the government should be producing them if it wants to avoid being gouged, scammed, cheated, or exploited
Or... open up the bids and stop feature creep. Let private companies compete and buy fewer from more of them instead of demanding 100% cross compatibility. The acquisition rules themselves are to blame.
The DOD actually encouraged defense firms to merge and reduce competition in the 90s.
@@CryosxifyThe government doesn’t do anything cheap and can’t even manage itself. Having a shipyard actually building ships managed by the government would be a disaster.
Yet Ukraine with handful of expensive US weapons has been giving Russia the business for 3 years
“But can Benjamin Franklin’s kite experiment really change America’s military, forever? I’m Alex Hollings, and THIS…… is Power”.
The stupid thing abotu Zumwalts was AGS and idea to make it gun-battleship. Other than that, it could continue to have been built nd serve as CCG(X) - are these Multiple All-up Round Canisters the same as on Virginia subs?
I have a little family-skin in this game.
My uncle (my mother's cousin, but was like a brother) was Cpt Edwin "Leigh" Ebbert, USN who, after retiring as a naval aviator (survived the Forrestal incident) took his NPGS/Princeton Aeronautical Eng MS (COS@NRL) to Johns Hopkins' Applied Physics Lab and was part of the team who did the theoretical thumbnailing of the NGD.
In our short conversations about the early NGD, he would never say what part of the design he was responsible for, but I'd guess it was either some part of the fluid dynamics issues and reducing 'water noise' vs the radar-return-reduction issues. Or something else...
In any case, he was always good at thinking outside the box.
RIP Uncle Leigh (2007)
You survived a hellacious auto wreck at age 77, but couldn't survive the thought of the injuries your wife Jean had suffered.
He died of a broken heart, just 9 days later.
the NAVY is what went wrong , they decided they didn't want to buy the ammo in volume so the price per shot went insane and then the navy complained the price per shot was insane, the boats are really good and the front handles rough seas better than a normal bow.
Well, the navy is not independently wealthy with it's own source of funds. Every year, it has to ask mummy for money. And one day, mummy said _money's tight dear, we've got to start saving and spend less._ So the navy went around and look for things to cut. But it also cannot just go ahead and cut whatever it wants. It must check with mummy first.
_Can we get rid of the Little Crappy Ships?_
_No, those stays. Your uncle is making those, and he really need the business. In fact, you're other uncle's business is also in trouble, so we will have him make another version, just as useless, but entirely different, so this makes your logistics costs twice as expensive. Find something else to cut._
The boats had boatloads of issues
@@balkan_thoughts-zt7pr all new boats have issues these were brand new all over so the first lot were always going to be problems anyone claiming otherwise is just dumb
@@TheShorterboy you just did so you might wanna retract that maybe? :)
@@balkan_thoughts-zt7pr what retract that all development process's have issues which everyone knows and no first build is perfect
I thought the immense power demand of the (never really tested) railgun board weapons caused the enormous cost of the Zumwalt class?
In '92, when I was trying to get in the Navy. I was down in Long Beech, CA. I got a tour of the USS Missouri. They had the original floor roped off.
Thank you for the fantastic episode!
This video has been up for 8 minutes. It's 24.5 minutes long. Comments posted before it's even possible for them to have watched the video should be given lower priority
I watch at 4x speed
Not everyone comments directly about the video's content. Some comment on the ships & weapons in general.
Lol relax, who cares
Stealth plus hyper sonic is monstrous, obviously!
I still think that submarines would have been a better use of funds. To be clear I don't even think these things would need to be "deep water" submarines as being able to submerge 5m below the surface of the sea would give it a radar cross section of exactly 0 which is much smaller than my uncle's fishing boat. In this way they could ditch the smooth spherical design common on most submarines for one that is most practical for surface operations. It wouldn't be intended to operate the same way a submarine does but would be intended to operate more like a surface ship but one that can go under water a bit to avoid any incoming missiles or to go under water to sneak up on an opponent Again they could basically have been cheaper submarines.
For 4 billion each we could have had 3 Ford class aircraft carriers.
@@tyharris9994 Um ford class costs 13B a piece in 2018 dollars. Not sure where your math is off but it is. Regardless an aircraft carrier isn't always the best tool. They were obviously prioritizing missions that require stealth in the design which means they intended these to get close to the shores of the enemy. You probably wouldn't want to do that with an aircraft carrier but a submarine would work just fine.
@@chaosfenix Marine Engineer here. Smooth spherical design of submarines is not optimized for surface sailing, it is optimized for below surface sailing. A design optimized for surface sailing would look like a destroyer hull.
@@thekraken1173 My point is that you may not even need a smooth spherical design. We use the smooth spherical design to optimize for below surface sailing but the thing is that my proposal explicitly says they wouldn't need to be deep water. Something even like a semi-submersible lift ship would have the same reduction in radar cross section that the zumwalt did. Again I am not saying these things need to go 200-300 meters or more below the water. 20-30 would be enough to reduce the RCS and the pressures at 20-30 meters are much lower than what subs are built to withstand.
I am going to head off another argument in that a submersible only 20-30m down would be easily detectable and that it therefore isn't save. It all depends on how you use them. Yes if you treat the ship like a normal submarine that is designed to stealthily go anywhere without even being seen then yes this wont do that, but that isn't what we ask of any of our other naval ships. We know they can be seen from above or nearby vessels. That is why we use them together. They have other defense mechanisms. And fundamentally their primary mission is not stealth but presence. The design wouldn't be a sniper operating behind enemy lines but a designated marksman that operates as part of a fire team. A shallow submersible could spend 90% of its days on the surface just like any other submersible but could then submerge for the 10% of the time when stealth from radar matters. This could be when avoiding detection or it could be when avoiding enemy fire.
I loooove these Seapower videos (almost more than Airpower ones:)!!! thank you so much!
The US Navy should just stick with the modified oil tankers with landing decks for resupply and add in missile pods similar to Rapid Dragon and allow them to launch vertically or load quickly on Ospreys.
Having one of these with air to air missile interceptors and long range ballistic or hypersonic missile in combination with a aircraft carrier would be sick
Only three Seawolf's and now we could use another half dozen at least. Same with the F-22 after 40 + billion dollars in development. It turns out we could really use another 150-200 Raptors so we wouldn't have to jam through advancements in 6th gen - we would have been protected through the 2040's. There is no plane like the Raptor or a sub like the Seawolf. And then the Zumwalt. The seven ships the buy was whittled down to would have provided a LOT of additional capability, but no. Who the heck is making these historically ignorant decisions? And why? This may seem a strange question but do we have a problem with elevating to power people who don't really think the U.S. should succeed? I certainly hope that is just a paranoid thought.
How are you gonna justify all these near peer gear investment during GWOT? Just saying 😵💫
Nice to see that the US Navy FINALLY found a good use for the Zumwalt class "destroyers". It's like me buying a 9 mm PCC (RUGER PC) and FINALLY finding a use for the range toy by competing in Steel Challenge. The Navy, Like me, likely feels better now that its fancy toy actually has a use beyond eye candy.
The Zumwalt class has been a boondoggle from the start and reflects the deep refusal of the Navy to learn any lessons from their procurement failures of the last 20 years. Zumwalt, Gerald Ford, LCS, Constellation. Consistently, we try to cram too much new tech into these designs, while starting construction before designs are even completed! And as a result, we consistently end up wasting billions and billions of dollars over budget while our surface fleet shrinks in the meantime. So now the Zumwalt class has essentially become a 25 billion dollar testing bed for hypersonics while we have 40 year old Ticonderogas and Arleigh Burkes on our front lines.
You're absolutely right! The Zumwalt-class destroyers have had a rocky journey, but their refitting to carry hypersonic missiles could indeed give them a new lease on life. The Navy is replacing the original Advanced Gun Systems with missile tubes for the Conventional Prompt Strike (CPS) weapon1. This upgrade will enable the Zumwalt-class to launch hypersonic missiles, which can travel at speeds exceeding Mach 5 and strike targets over 2,775 kilometers (1,724 miles) away1.
1.21 Jigawatts?? Inconceivable!
It's nuts that we have to call nearly everything either a Destroyer or Frigate.
Can we focus on something serious. Like all of these drones showing up all over the US over military bases and power plants in the last week?
They're not drones. Can drones stay aloft for hours and hours at a time? Completely silent? Can drones go from zero to Hypersonic in less than a second? No, they can't. I don't know what they are, but they're not drones.
Can’t do anything unless they change the laws and FAA rules
@@dextermorgan1 Yes, new technology flying over military bases that nobody knows what they are. Some might even call them top-secret.
Top-secret experimental new tech flying over … military bases?
Just where you would expect top secret military tech to be tested… if they are aliens!
Especially the ones right around Picatinny Arsenal in NJ, where many were sighted and where, what do you know, they just so happen to test experimental military tech.
Def aliens.
And right… drones can’t stay in the air for long?
Our 20 years old Predator drones can stay in the air for as long as 40 hours.
And how sure are you they go from zero to hypersonic in less than a second?
Something tells me you have been fear-mongered into a state of stupidity.
Who is feeding you this nonsense? The absolute dopes at Redacted, maybe?
Touch grass and snap out of it, bud. Good luck.
They looked a little big to be drones to me. But it is a serious defense issue.
@@anpan6282 not surprised. And the federal government doesn’t even really work anymore.
Thank you for your "ferret-like" information access and ability to tell an Old Salt about tech in a way I get. LOVE Air Power!! I actually enjoy all your videos, no matter the subject, but Air Power and Sea Power are my main interest. Aviation nerd from birth, US Navy Veteran from the 1980 era. You Rock!!
LCSs and Zumwalts were a Charlie Foxtrot. Navy is in trouble with the Constillation builds Navy needs serious help
Thanks for the information concerning this futuristic ship. Very interesting.
If they would stop cutting programs they would actually save money. Just because we aren’t “technically” in any wars doesn’t mean we won’t be eventually. Keep building the best we can at any given time and fulfill the program. Everything they have stopped is better than anyone else has…. Hence f22, sr71, zumwalt, potentially NGAD, and whatever has been created that we don’t know about publicly
F-22 is outdated. The SR-71 has been retired for decades..? If you're referring to the SR-72, that's vaporware dude. The Zumwalt was a failure, and NGAD is on the cusp of being cancelled at this point if you payed attention to any of the news about it within the past few months and literally two days ago.
🎖️⭐🙏❤️🩹🏆🛐
Thank you for sharing this
Pretty sure Zumwalt's stealth is defeated by the radar "shadow" it casts. Instead of seeing radar return off the ocean and waves behind the Zumwalt's location, enemy radars see no return at all. It's the same way passive sonar detects enemy subs, by looking where there is no or reduced background noise where there should be.
Seems like ridiculous overkill just to launch 12 munitions that are extremely difficult and time-consuming to reload.
There not
I’m glad they are getting new primary weapons. The Zumwalt is such a cool design that it, much like the F-22 and F-35s do, commands respect.
They've been parked in Menominee MI at the manufacturer for the last 2 years. When I was up there two weeks ago, two of the three were gone.
Those are LCS.
The Zumwalts were built at Bath Iron Works in Maine and Ingalls Shipbuilding in Mississippi.
@@JarrodFrates Well I know they were parked for the last twoyear at a boat works in Mi. You cant mistake them for some other ship
@@Winkkin You can't have seen Zumwalts in Menominee for the last two years. The Zumwalt herself has been at Ingalls in Mississippi for the last 15 months getting the launcher talked about in the video. The LBJ has been undergoing weapons system installation at the same shipyard for the last two years. And the Michael Monsoor is based out of San Diego.
And I personally know that those ships aren't Zumwalts because I was up there within that period visiting relatives in Crivitz, and I always swing by the shipyards to see what's docked there. The ships you've seen are Freedom-class littoral combat ships, which are less than 400 feet long. The yards at Menominee are getting enlarged to allow construction of the 500-foot Constellation-class frigates. The yards cannot handle a 600-foot Zumwalt.
Very interesting video. I had no idea how large the Zumwalt class was until now.
lol 4bil per sounds kinda cheap now considering we short on boats..... and china is not..... that price seems pretty good for its stealth factors alone
4 billion per boat is massively expensive.
There's just something to the Missouri 9 gun barrage being the approximate equivalent to a single 120 salvo of 155mm Howitzers artillery.
Navy planners went overboard designing ships for coastal warfare, Iran & N Korea. Wasted billions and have a lack of warships for peer warfare, China
It was never designed to fight near peer, not sure why it get bad rep. Just like LCS, never designed to fight near peer.
@@Trojan0304 It was designed to be useless. A jobs program for workers who can't be retrained to do anything useful.
Love your channel Sir!
You know what you call a stealth ship? A submarine. What a total waste of money. It’s shocking that this money pit got approved.
You are not wrong. The navy should accelerate sub production and build a smaller, mass produced diesel electric for coastal and island defense with a nasty mix of missiles and torpedoes. And build a bunch to land troops near a shoreline.
Even if the Zumwalt's onboard tracking and targeting radar lacks range, it can still network with other theater assets to share capabilities, so the Zumwalt can "see" much further than its own radar.
@16:10 I'm getting increasingly frustrated with this channel. It's a Defense industry sales channel. The Zumwalt failed because everything was substantially more expensive and less firepower performant. Carriers provided more bang for the buck and this floating economy of a warship did not meet design and cost specifications. Should have opened with these facts front loaded.
I'm with you on that. This channel is a propaganda channel for the US military. I love military equipment, but a lot of the things said here are straight from the mainstream media. Luckily, most people nowadays know that the mainstream media is nothing but BS.
Then leave
I think he laid those facts out pretty well in a good flow.
Sounds like you are looking for a short and something a little more anti-American and against the military, if I’m not mistaken?
I think Jane Fonda might have a TickTock. Should be perfect for you.
This channel presents weapon systems and new tech and mostly from America … or as you weirdly described it… a defense industry sales channel.
However, pretty sure none of us are in the market for any of these weapons.
Weird comment, bud.
@@Lifes-little-moments Sorry dude, your scarecrow of my character sticks like teflon. I'm a 3 time war veteran from infantry to engineer for a major company who is intimately knowledgeable about what I am criticizing. Firm supporter of DOGE because I seen from within the waste of tax payer dollars.
More to the point, Alex's content is very fanboyish. He is benefiting from access to information by these Defense companies and is genuinely well informed but he is too reluctant to criticize the products my observation.
Do you not hear him at 18:12 saying the ship doesn't have much to offer in the fight. The systems themselves are amazing and he should be speaking of them. Put them all together with the navy's goofy planning and this is what happens.
They put the hypersonic missile on the LCS-1 mono hull. Where the fly deck is and have them tag along behind DDGs. That would finely give them something to do.
4:50 Spicy Volvos!
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If Virginia class can do it, why use 3 Zumwalts?
They need to get the Wisconsin, Iowa and Missouri back to ready for service. The cost was much better for the ship and the ammo costs are a lot better. The ships could be used for so many things that now cost 10 times what a barrage would cost and the Iowa class can be restocked in rough sea the others need to dock. They may be old but they are still useful and cost much less.
So this is a mission where you need stealth and vertical launch tubes. That's what you would normally use subs for, and subs also easily outstealth these ships.
LOVE your channel!
Costs were rising because economy of scale, every time they (John McCain) cut the number of ships it raised the cost of the remaining ships.
It was also going to carry rail guns, before the long-range gun.
I love the new mission, but the reason the ammo became so expensive was the cut down to only 3 ships instead of 32, which drastically put the ammo out of reach cost wise.
Can’t wait to tour one of these in a museum one day
I remember hearing about at least one of the Zumwalt's getting retrofitted to serve as the testbed for railgun artillery years ago. It's a shame that route up the tech tree didn't pan out.
Always good to have tools in the toolbox! Did I miss coverage of Navy NJAD FA-XX ?
The problem with missles is there expensive. Shells are way cheaper. Missles are great but in a long war shells are alot easier to make. Hopefully these new destroyers come out good and become super powerful so the money spent isnt wasted
Man you’re the poster boy for kid in a candy shop standing next to that new hypersonic missile 😂 keep up the great work my friend
it also depends on how much you spend on that rocket
I've been a supporter of the Zumwalt class since it was announced, though it's combat roll kind of evaporated. With hypersonic missiles they can deliver a huge threat to an adversary. I foresee smaller, stealth frigates for anti-submarine weapons to hunt down enemy subs.
Once this conversion is done the Zumwalts should be re-classified as cruisers. Their mission won't be to escort larger fleets, it will be to go off on solo missions hunting enemy ships, which is the traditional role of a cruiser.
I hear the army has plans for a 155mm hypervelosity anti aircraft and missile system. This would be perfect for a zumwalt like future ship
Fun fact, the Zumwalt is so big that it would have been illegal to build under the interwar treaties limitations on cruiser size.
The Zumwalt propulsion system is going into the new DDGX destroyers. which are over 13,000 tons.
If the TSSAM program had continued, a blend of developed variants could have given you a vertially launched all-aspect stealthy cruise missile.
love the way this poped up hours after i see a launcher sat at cape canveral for testing this missile 😅
Weird…..huh?