Thanks, Gilbert, for this look back. I still have the copy I purchased back in 1991. Next time I’m reading Thucydides I’ll break this out and give it a play.
Thanks for the review Gilbert. I’d often wondered about the viability of the 2 player rules compared to the solo mode. I find the Peloponessian War endlessly fascinating so I guess I’ll have to add this one to my wish list (your previous review of Hellenes persuaded me to get that title, as well as Sword of Rome and Mr Madison’s War - I love them all, cheers!). Glad they’re currently reprinting this game, but if I’m being honest I think I prefer the designs of the 1st ed. The ships on the new box art don’t look like Hellenic triremes to me (and under sail going into battle.. eh!?!), and the new leader counters (Athenian and Spartan) all look like they have a helmet and red cloak from the movie 300! Compared to the Greek leader counters in the Vae Victis magazine games and ‘Syracuse’ by Turning Point Simulations they just look a bit plain and not very historical. Of course the graphics won’t impact the gameplay, but it does feel like a missed opportunity in a deluxe version.
Thanks for the support Dave. I'm in partial agreement with you but when I brought up the subject of the 'fortified cities' graphic on Consim I got into hot water, so I won't be doing that again. I have ordered the new version but I do like some of the graphics from the 1st version better.
Gilbert Collins I’m always mystified when people get so bent out of shape about such things. Art design and gameplay are such subjective issues - you can’t please all of the people all of the time. I’m just delighted to find another game (one that I’d previously dismissed) that presents a different take on my favourite subject - will be intriguing to be able to play the entire 30 year conflict (maybe avoid invading Syracuse!)
Useful review. Thanks for posting. Just received the new version yesterday and looking forward to playing. It's a shame that they didn't use the Greek spellings for the names though, e.g. "ai" instead of "ae" on the ends of some place names.
The new version has improved graphics for the counters but I didn't care for the new 'fortifications' as opposed to the 'temples' of the old version. Overall, I'm a bit disappointed with it for some reason. The 2 player game is still 'weak' since it was conceived as a solitaire game from the get go.
Actually, I'm Canadian but I get what you are saying. A lot of the 'homemade' videos that other people make have the same kind of thing. Sometimes I just cringe as some of the pronunciations.
I was super excited about this game until you got to the part about it being a super procedural Mark Herman game. I did not really enjoy Pericles or Empire of the Sun for that exact reason and I feel wary about being burned a third time.
Well, this one is extremely 'procedure' ridden. So if that is not your cup of tea you may want to avoid it. I think 'Empire of the Sun' is a terrific game but it has nothing in common with this game.
Do you own any games on modern warfare/cold war gone hot? Four examples would be SPI's WW3, invasion America and objective Moscow. Theres also Fortress America, which im playing this saturday.
Ok. So, how come you have so many US civil war, American revolution and Napoleonic wars games? Favorite time period? Alot of people consider Fortress America a spiritual successor to invasion America. Also, besides Quebec 1759, what other games on the 7 years war/French and indian war do you know about?
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Thanks, Gilbert, for this look back. I still have the copy I purchased back in 1991. Next time I’m reading Thucydides I’ll break this out and give it a play.
Looking forward to playing this - I got the new version yesterday. Thanks for the video.
Great review Gilbert. I will be looking out for the new game. Thank you.
Thanks for the review Gilbert. I’d often wondered about the viability of the 2 player rules compared to the solo mode. I find the Peloponessian War endlessly fascinating so I guess I’ll have to add this one to my wish list (your previous review of Hellenes persuaded me to get that title, as well as Sword of Rome and Mr Madison’s War - I love them all, cheers!).
Glad they’re currently reprinting this game, but if I’m being honest I think I prefer the designs of the 1st ed. The ships on the new box art don’t look like Hellenic triremes to me (and under sail going into battle.. eh!?!), and the new leader counters (Athenian and Spartan) all look like they have a helmet and red cloak from the movie 300! Compared to the Greek leader counters in the Vae Victis magazine games and ‘Syracuse’ by Turning Point Simulations they just look a bit plain and not very historical. Of course the graphics won’t impact the gameplay, but it does feel like a missed opportunity in a deluxe version.
Thanks for the support Dave. I'm in partial agreement with you but when I brought up the subject of the 'fortified cities' graphic on Consim I got into hot water, so I won't be doing that again. I have ordered the new version but I do like some of the graphics from the 1st version better.
Gilbert Collins I’m always mystified when people get so bent out of shape about such things. Art design and gameplay are such subjective issues - you can’t please all of the people all of the time. I’m just delighted to find another game (one that I’d previously dismissed) that presents a different take on my favourite subject - will be intriguing to be able to play the entire 30 year conflict (maybe avoid invading Syracuse!)
Useful review. Thanks for posting. Just received the new version yesterday and looking forward to playing. It's a shame that they didn't use the Greek spellings for the names though, e.g. "ai" instead of "ae" on the ends of some place names.
The new version has improved graphics for the counters but I didn't care for the new 'fortifications' as opposed to the 'temples' of the old version. Overall, I'm a bit disappointed with it for some reason. The 2 player game is still 'weak' since it was conceived as a solitaire game from the get go.
Good review of a facinating game.
NB Don't worry about the pronunciation - no one gets them right and, as an American, you are not expected to! ;)
Actually, I'm Canadian but I get what you are saying. A lot of the 'homemade' videos that other people make have the same kind of thing. Sometimes I just cringe as some of the pronunciations.
@@XLEGION1: Ooops my sincerest apologies! ;)
Im actually getting a delivery of Athens vs Sparta soon. How does it compare to this? I might pick it up this summer!
thanks for the review. Have you done a review of Victory Games Lee vs Grant Wilderness?
No, I don't own "Lee vs Grant" but if you check my play list you will seem several other American Civil War titles.
@@XLEGION1 thank you for taking the time to answer. Good job on your reviews!
I was super excited about this game until you got to the part about it being a super procedural Mark Herman game. I did not really enjoy Pericles or Empire of the Sun for that exact reason and I feel wary about being burned a third time.
Well, this one is extremely 'procedure' ridden. So if that is not your cup of tea you may want to avoid it. I think 'Empire of the Sun' is a terrific game but it has nothing in common with this game.
Do you own any games on modern warfare/cold war gone hot? Four examples would be SPI's WW3, invasion America and objective Moscow. Theres also Fortress America, which im playing this saturday.
No, I don't have many games on Modern Warfare at all. The only exception would be modern naval and off the cuff I can't think of one I own now.
Ok. So, how come you have so many US civil war, American revolution and Napoleonic wars games? Favorite time period? Alot of people consider Fortress America a spiritual successor to invasion America. Also, besides Quebec 1759, what other games on the 7 years war/French and indian war do you know about?
@@jeanthemilitaryhistorianbr1243 I have "Wilderness War" and "Mohawk". The latter one I enjoy very much.
I have a serious question. If I get into gaming can I still retain a girlfriend?
Absolutely. I have a beautiful girlfriend who understands my hobby perfectly. In fact she is helping me edit the rules to a game that I'm working on.