Can It Be Salvaged? Atari 65XE Restoration
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- This Atari 65XE didn't look too bad on the outside, but the inside was a complete nightmare: dust, rust, dirt, insects, spider webs, and even some kind of cocoons! Where did this poor Atari come from, the trash??
In spite of all of that, we managed to clean it really well, although we had to end up using hydrochloric acid for some of the toughest rust. We also ended up doing some retrobrighting to restore the original colors in the case and the keys.
In the end, we leave it almost as new except for the keyboard membrane, which was irreparably broken.
Support Noel's Retro Lab on Patreon: / noelsretrolab
You can order new keyboard membranes for the 65XE and 130XE form here:
atariage.com/f...
Connect with Noel's Retro Lab:
Discord ➤ / discord
Twitter ➤ / noel_retrolab
Facebook ➤ / noelsretrolab
Instagram ➤ / noel_retrolab
Acid is a good thing to use in the future, I used a lot of it to remove paint or rust.
Plastic does not react to acids, but Metal and rust will. The same thing with the rf shields and boars. You can use the acid at it and then use a base to neutralize it and refresh solder mask that broke open from rust.
Best acid I used is sulfuric acid from the drug store. Used it to remove rust from my C64 years ago, but it was before TH-cam showed us such great videos to help us :)
The POKEY chip also takes input from the game paddles (POtentiometers) and the KEYboard. And the GTIA chip is often called "George's Television Interface Adaptor" because it was designed by George McLeod.
I had the XEGS, loved every minute with it
It's quite a cool looking comptuer. Quite a lot like the Atari ST in its styling.
good job, RF shield saved too!
Outstanding work! I have a few of these along with 130xe and 800xl.
Never seen one that bad!
I managed to patch a couple of the membranes with conductive paint, but it's not ideal, much better idea to replace the membranes.
Love that pokey chip- some pretty stunning tunes when programmed well. 🙂
Really enjoyed your video so thank you 😊
Yeah, to this day I don't know where that Atari was stored. Was it in a damp cellar somewhere? And surprising how clean it was on the outside!
Great video! nice to see that working and looking good again
Why do people forget about the 1200XL? It was before the 800XL and unlike the 800XL, did not have BASIC on ROM, going to the Memo Pad mode.
Also the Atari 5200 was the first 8bit game console system using the same architecture as the 1200/800XL but with the Pokey (for sound) and Antic & GTIA chips (for video) addresses switched around. So the games from the computers can be ported to the 5200 with minimal programming changes.
Try the WD-40 to remove rust. It is not as violent as hydrochloric acid, it does not corrode plastic either.
You need to get some CLR, it that oxidation remover you see on TV infomercials. Great at removing rust.
Great restoration - well done.
Wow, how much better did that look when you had finished!!
9:28 - wait a moment! I see empty placeholders next to RAM! Does that means 65XE can have 128KB or that's for different capacity RAM chips?
Yes, the later 65XE models used the 130XE motherboard, and just left off the extra RAM. The earlier boards don't have the empty spaces for more RAM or the ECI port.
Genial video, ojalá el canal crezca al nivel de 8bitguy o Retro Recipes. Tiene poco que envidiarles 👍. (Aunque algo de musiquilla de fondo no estaría mal, jeje). Enhorabuena en todo caso.
the water company won't be happy with you.
Why you don't use a spray like kontakt PCC instead of alcohol?
For which part, the flux after soldering? I don't know. I learned to use alcohol for that and never considered something else. I do have some contact cleaner spray is is probably most alcohol, but it didn't occur to me to use it to remove flux. Do you recommend it over alcohol?
Are the atari 8 bit testers available to buy ?
7:57 I wonder if a rust remover would have worked. something like evaporust for example
Maybe. I'm not familiar with that one (or many other rust removers for that matter). But this stuff was STUCK to the case. Seriously stuck. Some people mentioned vinagre would have done it if left on the case for days.
@@NoelsRetroLab Ok this might sound like an add now: I have experience with a few different types of rust removers, as I have a history with metal works.
Evaporust is by far the least aggressive and at the same time very effective rust remover I know. It really works the way they advertise.
My worry was about the electronics, as I have no idea if it would have any influence on them, as you have to submerge the rust, for it to really work.
@@Doan84 In this particular case it was just on plastic, so that would have been fine probably. Maybe I'll try it next time I encounter something massively rusted like this. Thanks for the tip.
Surprisingly similar in construction to an Atari ST. Which I suppose in not actually that surprising...
Anyway, great video! =)
Exactly. It was a half-way step between the XL and the ST as far as design goes.
this is becoming one of my favorite channels. We diehards all subscribe to the same few retro repair gurus, but Noel is just so much more personable. double plus like
Thanks you! I'm glad you're enjoying it.
I just found Noel's channel the other day and I am very pleased at the lack of paperclips so far.
That amount of rust.. I would have taken a tetanus shot before working on it.. Excellent!
🤣🤣
The way you removed all the air from that ziploc bag was both very tense and extremely satisfying.
Ah! I see I'm not the only one who feels that way 😃
Hi Noel, you mention in 16:01 that people do these keyboard membranes. What's the URL to order one for Atari 800XL?
Rockwell Semiconductor was one of the main manufacturers of 6502s. They're pretty common to find in Apple IIs and Atari systems.
Wow! Awesome job! She looks almost as good as new. I really love watching these extreme restoration videos.
Here in the United States, we have a product called Evapo-Rust that removes rust from steel/iron and also will remove the rust stains from plastics and other surfaces. It is completely non-toxic, and isn't an acid - you can let the item sit in it for hours. I'm not sure if you can get a similar product, but it may be worth trying something like that in the future.
Someone mentioned that too. I should definitely look into it. It sounds perfect for this application. Thanks.
lovely content
Great job!! Protip - placing the case outside in sunlight does a great job of retrobrighting and there's no risk of streaking and there are no harsh chemicals involved which could degrade the plastic. The hydrogen peroxide method is falling out of favor as far as I know. Again great job and thank you for creating the video.
I had read about that method, but I have never tried it. I doubt it would work with the sun we have in northern Spain, and especially not this time of the year. I should try one day in the summer though.
@@NoelsRetroLab This method is very well described in Retro Recipes video here: th-cam.com/video/8P1OVj0IcqY/w-d-xo.html
In order to get 128k of ram, you have to install EMMU chip (C25953) or provide a replacement. If you cannot get your hands on the original EMMU and have to use a programmable logic replacement, I guess it makes more sense to upgrade to 1024k using one of the popular extensions.
Spraying the motherboard with deoxit will remove some oxidation and help protect it. It has a protective oil that lasts about ten years iirc.
love this video. i have 4 atari's 2 800XL and 2 130XE and the works good. I have enjoyed programming little basic tekst games.
A fix I tried for friend's 65 XE was to cut out the shielding anew from blank aluminium plate and use that one, completely replacing the original - it worked fine, though I had to improvise a bit on attaching it to the board - I used flat risers instead of bending the sides and cutting out those 'twisty latches'.
I've been wanting this Atari ever since I was 7 years old after playing River Raid for 10 minutes... 35 years later I finally got it as my family present 🤪
Don't forget the RF modulator shield! Oh...
Way better to get a replacement membrane if possible. I have had luck repair speak and spell with similar membrane using conductive paint.
Late to the party I know: I just wanted to add that in the past I have repaired a cracked keyboard membrane with conductive paint as a glue, aluminium foil as a replacement track and then tape for reinforcement.
how can the zx without any rf shild comply with rf emission regulation?
For rust removal I guess you could use wheel cleaner, the one that turns in to purple when it reacts to rust. It should work great on plastic at least, it smells really bad tho'.
7:45 "Okay! So let's just put more acid all over..."
This is an absolute Samurai-Computerl It fights till the end👹
My 65XE that I got from ebay super cheap is in way better condition than the one you have
It was such a crazy transformation when he cleaned off the rust, especially with the jump cut. I was amazed!
Impressive job on that machine! I used to work as a repairs technician for Atari and Commodore. The state that some machines came in was nothing short of mind-boggling.
A quick follow-up video when you get the keyboard membrane would be good...
Thanks! Yes, I was planning on doing a followup video. Maybe doing a memory upgrade at the same time.
Please use safety glasses, in addition to gloves when working with acids.
You could of used a dremel tool with a wire brush on the end to clean rust off RF Shields. It works well.
looks like someone mistook the home computer for a roast pan, Christmas of 1993
There's probably a nasty rust smear under the RF modulator box too.
Nice save. Great to see an old and neglected machine brought to near pristine shape.
Now this is right up my street! Excellent work as always. 👍
Thanks! That means a lot from an Atari guy like you :-)
don't know if anyone has said it yet but the xegs when the keyboard is attached to the sio slot on the left side in the front it behaves and functions just like an Atari 600 XL/ 65 XE due to the fact they are all the exact same machine with minor revisions to the mother boards as time went by. it only acted as game console when the keyboard was not attached and had missile command built in by default and would run it if the keyboard was not detected on the sio port.
Yes, I've read that in a few places. It has made me much more interested in trying out an XEGS one of these days.
@@NoelsRetroLab well I hope you get the chance to get one of these days They really are nice flexible machines I love mine got it modded all the way out too :), 1 meg of ram yeah virtual HDD and Floppies on board with the side 2 cart.
The keyboard on the XEGS has its own plug. It doesn't connect on the SIO.
@@theannoyedmrfloyd3998 oh I thought it did my bad.
8:56 Perifractic would use a washdisher .... uh a wishdasher
The XEGS had a keyboard and all the hook ups for the tape and disk drive. -- It also booted to Basic, and had the same built-in memory test (and missile command!) -- It might have been marketed as a console, but it wasn't any more consoley than the others in the 8-bit line up.
Interesting! If I ever get my hands on one it would make for an interesting video to see what it has inside and what it can do.
Wow, that poor Atari 65XE has had a rough life. I hope that you are able to fully restore it soon. I have an Atari 130XE and I have enjoyed programming little basic programs on it with my 4 year old daughter. The only thing I worry about is the 35 year old Power supply. I'm sure there are places out there making replacements, but I don't know where.
Unlike other systems (cough, C64, cough), the power supply is a piece of cake. It's just 5V supplied through a DIN5 connector (alternating pins carry 5V). I've made a bunch for XL systems in the past.
Nice video, I just did a very similar repair on my channel. I took a Slightly different approach, but fell in love with this 8 bit wonder
Nice! Yours had a fair amount of rust as well. What's up with that? Are all XEs very rust-prone? Good job getting it working!
@@NoelsRetroLab good question, I'm not sure, but based on a sample size of 2 it seem to be susceptible to it. I do think mine had been stored somewhere damp.
It is supposedly the best 130XE board there ever was produced. It is most stable, easy to expand memory, and produces a good quality picture (without any noise or bars). To make it real 130XE you need 8x 4164 DRAM chips, and an EMMU CO25953 chip (or programmed GAL16V8 and 74LS95).
P.S.
I believe you can use joystick to navigate through the directory list of UNO-cart.
Good to know. I'll probably give it a try upgrading it to 128K in the near future. Looks like a fun project.
@@NoelsRetroLab You may watch this: th-cam.com/video/-z8esiGqYaU/w-d-xo.html - this is the same board revision, and original EMMU chip is used (very hard to get).
More detailed description here: www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160
You may also use 41256 chips, to have 64+256, which would allow you to run most of the existing demos, and recent games. But you had to know that there are two concurrent 320kB expansions - RAMBO 320K (a.k.a. Newell Industries), and Compy Shop 320K. In the USA RAMBO was more popular, but only German Compy Shop is fully compatible with 130XE ANTIC access. They also have different addressing scheme.
I ALWAYS first open the computer to check, if there is no heavy rust inside, that can cause shorts. Only then I power it up.
Yeah, I try to do that as well. I guess I jumped the gun on this one :-b
I love the 65XE and 800XL
I needed a tetanus shot just looking at all the rust.
Wow that was a messy machine once you got inside it. What do you think caused the two black lines on the bottom? Did someone leave it on top of some curling tongs or something like that?
I don't know! I suppose it could be the usual power cables plus the polystyrene foam from the box, but they're so deep and well-defined that it's a bit unusual.
i would not refer to the pokey chip as great. i would consider it as average.
great job though
For the time it was pretty good! I'm actually looking forward to doing a video comparing the Pokey sound chip, AY chip, and SID among others. Just purely from a technical point of view. Should be fun.
Great video! Lots of take aways for me as I'm also trying to restore a recently acquired Atari 65XE. What spray paint did you use to rust-proof the RF shield, etc.?
Glad to hear it! I showed a quick shot of it. It's labeled as a galvanizing zinc paint. You can probably find it in any hardware store or even Amazon.
Don't you love membrane keyboards, good when they were new and only get better with age. ^_^
Haha... yeah, I'm glad we're past that stage technologically 😃
Nice and thoroughly job you did. Now waiting for the next video...oh it's just there! Cheers, M
That paint is incredible.
Forgot to ask before, but what concentration of hydrochloric acid did you use?
cool repair liked that :)
Looks good
Good job!
Have you ever used isopropyl alcohol in an ultrasonic cleaner to clean boards? I removed the battery leakage acid that condensed all around, and it helped remove some rusty, too.
Do you not have CLR (calcium/lime/rust remover) in Europe? That is what I would have used to clean it. I have also had good luck with food-grade citric acid (and it is obviously non-toxic, which is nice).
I just looked it up and it doesn't seem to be available here. I agree that some other, less dangerous acid would be better though!
@@NoelsRetroLab hmm. Try looking for "sulfamic acid" no amazon. In my experience, that stuff is, hands down, the best at removing rust and corrosion. It is also the active ingredient in CLR. Plus, to quote Wikipedia, "Sulfamic acid is preferable to hydrochloric acid in household use, due to its intrinsic safety."
@@ichemnutcracker Awesome. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks!
Great job
WOW! Thats a lot of rust. Nice repair job.
Yeah, crazy levels of rust. Thanks!
Muy buen trabajo!!, gracias por divulgarlo. Saludos.
Wow, where was that stored, in a garden? Well, you really did save this one. A real trash to treasure! Well done 👌
I'm about to get an Atari 65XE and even though it seems to be in working condition, I was looking for a video that helped me troubleshoot it in case it is necessary, this is EXACTLY what I needed. The explanation of each chip was also very helpful and informative, not only that, I see you also made a follow up video about the replacement keyboard membrane recently. Thank you so much for this. Liked and subscribed. I'm off to watch some more videos of yours! Cheers!
So happy to hear that was useful! Hope you enjoy the other videos too.
Another great video sir!!!!! Thank you for all the great content!
Dose the 65xe play the same cartridges as the 800?
Yes, they're pretty much the same machine with a new outside.
@@NoelsRetroLab nice!!! Thanks man! I really enjoyed the vid too. Subbed.
I love the look of the XE line (along with the STs of course). Really nice styling!
I really like it too, that's why I'm so torn with the XL. I love the XL because it's the original, but I also like the XE, but I don't have room for both! 😬
Same one million screw keyboard plate as the amiga, lol
The looks are great but the keyboard is better (sharper) on XL
Most of the time I like to see RF shields kept intact, however in this case not so much.
All rusted & full of dust = more entertainment ! :D
Conductive tape will help you. Good job bro
blown away that this shit worked
😀😀You can tell Ataris are well built in general. If that had been other manufacturer (cough, SVI, cough) it would have rotted away a long time ago.
Try Evaporust to remove the rust.
Next time I encounter another one like this I will. Thanks for the tip.
Great job. Do you live in Spain?. I say so because all of the things you buy for cleaning are spanish ones.
Yes, exactly. Notice that the majority even have Spanish keyboards and ROMs too :-)
Another great video, 👍
Don’t understand why some give a thumbs down, if they don’t like it they clearly not into retro computers and repair so why are they even watching it.
Thanks! It seems to be a common TH-cam thing people going around giving thumbs down as soon as they don't agree with something. Probably someone didn't like me using that acid or doing something differently than they would have done. Oh well. Glad you liked it though! :-)
I'm surprised that poor Atari even started after seeing what's inside. Nice job cleaning it.
Thanks! I know, I was lucky it just worked. Those Ataris are built really well, and the damage was mostly external rust and dust, so it looked really bad, but the board wasn't affected much.
Wow, wasn't expecting it to be that bad on the inside. Nice job!.
Yeah, no kidding. I wasn't expect that either, even after seeing the rust marks on the bottom :-) Thanks!
Just a note - many 65XEs come with just a cartridge port and not the full ECI, so the Sys-Check cart would not fit.
Ah, that makes sense. That's why I was half expecting it not to be compatible. Still working my way around the nuances of the XE line.
@@NoelsRetroLab See www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/atarixe/h/back.jpg or oldcomputer.info/8bit/atari8/compare.jpg
@@PG-gs5vb Very interesting. I also saw that not all boards come with the room to add the second bank of 64KB like this one did. I wonder if it's a PAL vs NTSC thing, or just different points in their manufacturing life.
@@NoelsRetroLab The later 65XEs and probably all 800XEs used the same PCB as the 130XE with half of the RAM slots unpopulated, just like yours. It was probably for cost-cutting reasons as they could just manufacture one board for all models and the manufacturing cost between the 65XE and 130XE PCBs was pretty much the same.
Yikes!
vinigar wil work 1 week
Хорошая работа. Идеальная подача процесса реставрации. Atary 65XE - это легенда
Great job!
Thank you!
Bravo!! Great job!!
Thanks!
I hate yellowing too but retrobright lasts from 3 month to 3 years.
I gave up.
OK, I have a C64 in the same condition full of rust.
I used a cleaning solution that I buy from a chemical store.
Unfortunately it has no name but I when I go there I ask it as "rust" for clothing.
It completely vanishes rust in a few seconds.
I know a lot of people report that, but that hasn't been my experience so far. If wonder if it has to do with the environment they're kept afterwards (light vs not, hot vs cold, etc).
@@NoelsRetroLab Sometimes it even yellows in a dark closet :-/
How odd! Did you try putting some dashboard protectant or some other kind of plastic protectant after the retrobrighting? Maybe that helps make it last longer.
@@NoelsRetroLab I wonder if anyone is doing any long-term tests on retrobrighting? I'd love to see a study done to see if and how much the yellowing stays away.