Thinking about scaling back the Brawler profiles to remove an auto hit from each. After playing with them, even the Troopers were automatically getting 6 wounds in on a target if they charged. Seemed a little bit too good. Troopers at 2 hits would guarantee them 3 damage each combat which seems a lot more reasonable.
I've actually been working on a google doc for this exact thing myself. It's meant to be a compilation of custom campaigns and whatnot, but has rules that can be used for various scenarios including stealth missions. My stealth rule was this: player operatives are discovered if they end a turn and any of the following conditions are met: 1. a loud weapon was used within 20" of an enemy who is still alive (any chain weapon, or ranged weapon without the silent trait is loud) 2. any operative is a valid target for an enemy 3. an enemy that was attacked is still alive, or was visible to another currently alive enemy when it was attacked In addition, i have the game run as "you go, i go" during stealth (so the same turn type as 40k) so that group ambushes are possible.
I've compiled the rules into a pdf that can be found here www.patreon.com/posts/kill-team-joint-113765660 Yes it's patreon, no you don't have to be a member to get the file.
I find the Five Psrsecs from Home solo combat system pretty easy to use so I will probably try that out in Kill Team. I'll need to assign a psychological profile to the NPOs to deternine both deployment and gameplay. If I treat the units APL as the equivilent of a FPfH Reactions score for my Kill Team, then I'll roll d6's for each member of my team. Rolls that are equal to or under the APL can be assigned to the appropriate mini to let it go first, then the NPOs go, then anyone else on my team that has not acted yet may go.
For initiative I think the "Bolt Action Dice Bag" works really well though using them to keep track of the units state and collecting all dice back into the bag at the end doesnt quite work with Kill Team. I do love making custom dice so maybe there is a way to incorporate that somehow. I will play my first solo game in the next day or two and look forward to more videos like that. 👍
I’ve been considering, even for PVP games, just taking a cheap deck of playing cards, writing the names of the operatives on a card, and shuffling them up at the start of each turning point. You draw a card, and the corresponding model activates. It’s similar to the Bolt Action dice bag. Makes the game much more random, and competitive players wouldn’t like the lack of planning and control, but I think such a system might be good for solo or co-op play.
Nice video. Some great ideas for activation sequence, I kinda played similarly to that intuitively, but it's nice to have it structured like that. On the topic of averages instead of dice rolls, I can understand that some people would prefer that to rolling dices whether for simplicity or to speed things up. But personally for me it's not something I'm really interested in. Warhammer is at its core is a game of dice, they bring that randomness and swing that create great moments in games. Yeah, if you're playing solely to challenge yourself mechanically, then perhaps averages is what you'll find enjoyable probably, but then why you stop at averaging only NPOs and not the player's Operatives as well? Will be more like chess, but in my opinion it takes away an important factor from the game. If I played just using averages, I would not get crazy moments when a plaguebearer (Tough Brawler) rolled 3 crits on his attacks against my space marine, that was brutal and unexpected, and since my marine rolled poorly, he went down from that backstab attack. That was a great moment in my game that changed its flow. I would've never got it if plaguebearer just averaged on his attacks (more so if I averaged my Operative as well). Still it's great idea for those of us who prefer a different style of game without that kind of swings. And it would definitely speed up things a bit. Sentries look fun, I remember similar rules in some narrative 40k missions and if I'm not mistaken, the first ever version of Kill Team (that being the one in th 4th Edition 40k rulebook) had similar mechanics. Definitely something worth a try, and I think we will see something along those lines from GW in furthern Joint Ops expansions. Thanks for the video!
Assigning successes for npo’s, rather than rolling isn’t really that big a deal. The only thing is it eliminates the temptation of rerolling the npo dice when you don’t like what you got. 😁
You did great job, especially with static values to speed up game. BUT KT still seems too shallow of a game to play in coop, since killing swarms wont hold up for too long. After trying something like "Rangers of Shadowdeep", it seems to Me that games need more customized scenarios, with some random events to keep it both interesting / immersive (as acctual campaign) and some randomness (so it is not pre-calculated and solved few moves before). Since KT offers only "combat" and no skills, or any extra stats not-combat-related, unlike for example Stargrave - it will be much harder to give those interesting scenarios and I doubt both GW can or want to provide those customized mission packs for coop.
Yeah, I totally agree. The solo format requires a little more effort in the mission design to actually be enjoyable. I like the idea of 'challenge missions' because you can basically time-trial yourself and compare score against previous attempts or other players. For something like that though you do need the full mission to be laid out and for it to be something more than just kill. Not having progress means you can't do stuff like Stargrave/Necromunda have where you have objectives that get you exp and gear that you need to balance against 'winning' the scenario. I think I'll probably end up trying the 4 solo missions from Stargrave Quaratine 37 as templates but using killteam rules and profiles. So that's two 'escape off the board' mission, a 'moving walls' mission, and a 'kill the leader and escape' mission. Having some random tables for events each turn is probably a good idea, maybe do it with cards like Silver Bayonet so you get the same set each game but a different order. I guess I've talked enough about it, time to play some games :D
@@optimalgamestate I will be looking forward to what you are going to make - if it will be another interesting video like thise one. Also, there was some attempt like "Acolyte" for KT (mostly Rangers of Shadow Deep with KT rules). Still, it seems like a lot of work that GW didnt put in and meaby it will be just better / faster to play Stargrave with KT's models
For the whole sentry/fog of war concept, you almost have to have a third status in addition to concealed and engaged... which would be “hidden”. An operative with concealed could reposition from cover to cover and still be an invalid target, even though the enemy saw where the moved. As opposed to a hidden operative, which has never been observed at all.
Good spot 😆. That might still be okay though, would let them sneak around a little. Could also consider facing for the sentries, maybe a 180 front arc for spotting or something.
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@@optimalgamestate Could also be expanded upon with Space Hulk like 0-1 tokens hiding the information if there really is someone hidden from the player.
I'd really like to see warhammer quest style activations for NPO's. Roll a d12 and see what an NPO does based off of a chart. It works really well and would the add the ability to give the NPO's neat little things they have a chance of doing.
Yes! Some boss battles would be a great idea. Not entirely sure how that would work though. Warcry had some fun rules for monsters like giving fighters extra abilities they can use against the monster, there might be something in there for Boss Battles in kill team.
Space Marine 2 game, freaking genius! This is such a wasted opportunity by GW. Either way, you'll probably do a better job. Gaunts Ghosts Kill Team: Yes please! I still cannot fathom why GW hasn't done this. They're so perfect for it and the models are amazing. 0:52 No. No seriously. They really aren't.
And once again, a single person can improve the solo rules better than a multi-million dollar corporation, that is just lazy. I'll stick with Core Space when it comes to figure games.
Thinking about scaling back the Brawler profiles to remove an auto hit from each. After playing with them, even the Troopers were automatically getting 6 wounds in on a target if they charged. Seemed a little bit too good. Troopers at 2 hits would guarantee them 3 damage each combat which seems a lot more reasonable.
love it. will try it out later today.
I wouldn’t worry about modifying solo play rules. You’re unlikely to get into an argument with your opponents. (One would hope)
@@earnestwanderer2471 I dunno man, I must just be unlucky, but every solo game I've had, my opponent was a total jerk.
Great ideas. Just getting into 40k and will definitely be trying this. Thank you.
I've actually been working on a google doc for this exact thing myself. It's meant to be a compilation of custom campaigns and whatnot, but has rules that can be used for various scenarios including stealth missions.
My stealth rule was this:
player operatives are discovered if they end a turn and any of the following conditions are met:
1. a loud weapon was used within 20" of an enemy who is still alive (any chain weapon, or ranged weapon without the silent trait is loud)
2. any operative is a valid target for an enemy
3. an enemy that was attacked is still alive, or was visible to another currently alive enemy when it was attacked
In addition, i have the game run as "you go, i go" during stealth (so the same turn type as 40k) so that group ambushes are possible.
Are you going to put this into a pdf? Especially team set up and activation priority sounds interesting
Yeah that would help. I'll get to work on it now.
@@optimalgamestate Awesome, thanks!
@@optimalgamestate brilliant
I've compiled the rules into a pdf that can be found here www.patreon.com/posts/kill-team-joint-113765660
Yes it's patreon, no you don't have to be a member to get the file.
@optimalgamestate WOW! I expected some bullet points on a blank sheet. But this is full layout..great job!
Some good ideas there. I’ll definitely try the random npo deployment and fixed hits.
I find the Five Psrsecs from Home solo combat system pretty easy to use so I will probably try that out in Kill Team. I'll need to assign a psychological profile to the NPOs to deternine both deployment and gameplay.
If I treat the units APL as the equivilent of a FPfH Reactions score for my Kill Team, then I'll roll d6's for each member of my team. Rolls that are equal to or under the APL can be assigned to the appropriate mini to let it go first, then the NPOs go, then anyone else on my team that has not acted yet may go.
Very nice changes. Looking forward to try them!
For initiative I think the "Bolt Action Dice Bag" works really well though using them to keep track of the units state and collecting all dice back into the bag at the end doesnt quite work with Kill Team. I do love making custom dice so maybe there is a way to incorporate that somehow. I will play my first solo game in the next day or two and look forward to more videos like that. 👍
I’ve been considering, even for PVP games, just taking a cheap deck of playing cards, writing the names of the operatives on a card, and shuffling them up at the start of each turning point. You draw a card, and the corresponding model activates. It’s similar to the Bolt Action dice bag. Makes the game much more random, and competitive players wouldn’t like the lack of planning and control, but I think such a system might be good for solo or co-op play.
Nice video. Some great ideas for activation sequence, I kinda played similarly to that intuitively, but it's nice to have it structured like that.
On the topic of averages instead of dice rolls, I can understand that some people would prefer that to rolling dices whether for simplicity or to speed things up. But personally for me it's not something I'm really interested in. Warhammer is at its core is a game of dice, they bring that randomness and swing that create great moments in games. Yeah, if you're playing solely to challenge yourself mechanically, then perhaps averages is what you'll find enjoyable probably, but then why you stop at averaging only NPOs and not the player's Operatives as well? Will be more like chess, but in my opinion it takes away an important factor from the game. If I played just using averages, I would not get crazy moments when a plaguebearer (Tough Brawler) rolled 3 crits on his attacks against my space marine, that was brutal and unexpected, and since my marine rolled poorly, he went down from that backstab attack. That was a great moment in my game that changed its flow. I would've never got it if plaguebearer just averaged on his attacks (more so if I averaged my Operative as well). Still it's great idea for those of us who prefer a different style of game without that kind of swings. And it would definitely speed up things a bit.
Sentries look fun, I remember similar rules in some narrative 40k missions and if I'm not mistaken, the first ever version of Kill Team (that being the one in th 4th Edition 40k rulebook) had similar mechanics. Definitely something worth a try, and I think we will see something along those lines from GW in furthern Joint Ops expansions.
Thanks for the video!
Assigning successes for npo’s, rather than rolling isn’t really that big a deal. The only thing is it eliminates the temptation of rerolling the npo dice when you don’t like what you got. 😁
You did great job, especially with static values to speed up game.
BUT KT still seems too shallow of a game to play in coop, since killing swarms wont hold up for too long. After trying something like "Rangers of Shadowdeep", it seems to Me that games need more customized scenarios, with some random events to keep it both interesting / immersive (as acctual campaign) and some randomness (so it is not pre-calculated and solved few moves before). Since KT offers only "combat" and no skills, or any extra stats not-combat-related, unlike for example Stargrave - it will be much harder to give those interesting scenarios and I doubt both GW can or want to provide those customized mission packs for coop.
Yeah, I totally agree. The solo format requires a little more effort in the mission design to actually be enjoyable. I like the idea of 'challenge missions' because you can basically time-trial yourself and compare score against previous attempts or other players. For something like that though you do need the full mission to be laid out and for it to be something more than just kill. Not having progress means you can't do stuff like Stargrave/Necromunda have where you have objectives that get you exp and gear that you need to balance against 'winning' the scenario. I think I'll probably end up trying the 4 solo missions from Stargrave Quaratine 37 as templates but using killteam rules and profiles. So that's two 'escape off the board' mission, a 'moving walls' mission, and a 'kill the leader and escape' mission. Having some random tables for events each turn is probably a good idea, maybe do it with cards like Silver Bayonet so you get the same set each game but a different order. I guess I've talked enough about it, time to play some games :D
@@optimalgamestate I will be looking forward to what you are going to make - if it will be another interesting video like thise one.
Also, there was some attempt like "Acolyte" for KT (mostly Rangers of Shadow Deep with KT rules).
Still, it seems like a lot of work that GW didnt put in and meaby it will be just better / faster to play Stargrave with KT's models
For the whole sentry/fog of war concept, you almost have to have a third status in addition to concealed and engaged... which would be “hidden”. An operative with concealed could reposition from cover to cover and still be an invalid target, even though the enemy saw where the moved. As opposed to a hidden operative, which has never been observed at all.
Good spot 😆. That might still be okay though, would let them sneak around a little. Could also consider facing for the sentries, maybe a 180 front arc for spotting or something.
@@optimalgamestate Could also be expanded upon with Space Hulk like 0-1 tokens hiding the information if there really is someone hidden from the player.
I'd really like to see warhammer quest style activations for NPO's. Roll a d12 and see what an NPO does based off of a chart. It works really well and would the add the ability to give the NPO's neat little things they have a chance of doing.
Some great Ideas - I've been looking at this with my son, he's got 'Boss battle' Ideas also (CArnifexes etc)
Yes! Some boss battles would be a great idea. Not entirely sure how that would work though. Warcry had some fun rules for monsters like giving fighters extra abilities they can use against the monster, there might be something in there for Boss Battles in kill team.
@@optimalgamestate there was The Dreaded Ambull fight mission in KT18, it was in 2019 Annual, maybe some source for inspiration
Space Marine 2 game, freaking genius! This is such a wasted opportunity by GW. Either way, you'll probably do a better job.
Gaunts Ghosts Kill Team: Yes please! I still cannot fathom why GW hasn't done this. They're so perfect for it and the models are amazing.
0:52 No. No seriously. They really aren't.
Schaeffer's Last Chancers would be even better in such scenarios than Gaunt's Ghosts.
And once again, a single person can improve the solo rules better than a multi-million dollar corporation, that is just lazy. I'll stick with Core Space when it comes to figure games.