Fixing another man's lash-up!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- This is a job I quoted for and won last Christmas, but I was subsequently unable to meet the client's schedule, so they booked in someone else, an old boy who has been in the business for donkey's years. For whatever reason, things went sour between them and they asked me to come and finish the job. Not something I would do ordinarily, but the lockdown opened a space in my diary which suited both parties and it was one I could go and do on my own.
At first glance, I thought things were pretty good, but subsequent inspection and testing turned up a few questionable things including an outright schoolboy error which I attempt to find and fix with as little damage as possible as decorative finishes have already started going in, and with some interesting materials that are tricky to work with.
Sometimes you'll get a 'rock and a hard place' job like this where you have a fault to locate and correct while working around finishes you don't want to damage. Everyone will have an opinion on whether I approached this one rightly or wrongly, but really that first-fix foul-up shouldn't have existed in the first place. Someone else did the deed, then failed to find it through dead testing before it got plastered over, and now I'm the guy inheriting the headache.
If you want to comment on how it could have been done better, then please do so, but keep it informative. If you think I'm wrong, tell me why and what you would have done instead. Oh, and yes, inaccessible junctions are permitted by BS7671 under certain conditions. Other countries don't allow such, so if you're a sparkie elsewhere in the world working to a different code, I'd be interested to hear what you'd have to do in a similar scenario. For more on inaccessible junctions in the UK, I refer you to this article on my website: www.dses.co.uk...
Personally, I'd have probably run the circuits at a high level in the 150mm prescribed zone by the ceiling and dropped down the walls to the accessory positions. I'd have also run it as two radial circuits, one for the kitchen, one for the living areas as I'm not a fan of rings.
There were some other issues on this site that weren't recorded on camera such as lighting points with no CPC, but I only filmed on my last day when I came to investigate the fault shown. I was there for three days, and they were long days too with early starts and late finishes just to get this fitted in and ticked off. That fibreboard stuff is, presumably, Sundeala board which has thermal and acoustic insulation properties and is fire rated. It was applied to the external walls and the internal paramount (eggbox) walls. I replaced the 25mm KO boxes for 35mm for a better fit.
![A drunken bore visits Elex '24 [Coventry]](/img/n.gif)
@5:00 it’s a different way of wiring a ring main. You go to ever other socket on the way out and every other one on the way back. It’s how my mentor use to do it.
Some times it makes sense to do it. In trunking it removes one really long leg back to the board. But yea in this situation I don’t get it.
I know it as kangaroo method
Ah, so an old-school method! Not one I've come across before in my time, but thanks for explaining as I didn't know what was going through the chaps head!
It is so that if you draw 32amps from a socket near the switchboard the current is split more evenly over the 2 legs due to the cable lengths being less different when compared to the other method.
@@dsesuk it also protects from one long leg taking load if the ring is to be broken.
Completely bonkers and electrically illiterate : wiring a ring in this way increases the length and thus the voltage drop and resistance, besides increasing the risk of a accidentally drilling or nailing through cables.because of their illogical routing.
The learning material within this video is golden.
Outstanding
Cheers Luke! Fiver's in the post mate.
I ageee
So glad people out there like , you, Bundy, Luke, Chris, dss, tom the spark. Next level in the game. I’m a final year apprentice and this covid 19 has messed my AM2 dates so you guys are keeping me going 👍🏻
💯% I’ve got to go and look at the same fault at a job on Friday and it’s a tiled kitchen and using this method is brilliant as I’d usually just split the ring and work back. Cheers again David for a great video 👏🏻👍🏻
Really good video, probs just taught 99% of electricians how to narrow down a fault like that 👍👍👍
Surely not. I'm not an electrician - it's just common sense.
Yes. I think these video should be shown to students learning Electrical Installation.
They want that socket on offpeak for the grow lamps haha
No other reason
Likely explains the insulation on the walls - reduce the heat loss/ thermal heat signature.
totally agree with you mate
😂 it all makes sense now
Love the irony of the capping installed to protect from other trades has caused the damage.
Had he just clipped the cables to the blockwork, they would have been safer from his hammer-time!
May still have been plasterer or other that nailed that could have come loose and he fixed it
"there's the money shot" always so satisfying when you locate the fault 👌
Thank you for leaving a video that actually shows you doing the fault finding. I found it very helpful
Thanks Philip, I'm glad it was of use.
@Mircea because its not live/phase.
@Mircea - Err, because compared to phase, there's a lot lower voltage in it referenced to Earth (still not quite zero I imagine). Not to be confused with the grounding (or earthing).
Not a sparkie, so take my word with a lot of water.
Following you on this job meant that I shared the sense of triumph when you found the fault . Absolute magic . Thanks very much and well done .
I'm a lv3 electrical student and This video taught me about fault finding more than what my own tutor has ever taught me , thank you!
Did you know you can calculate the distance to the fault too? Here is the calculation:
The two readings (0.13ohms and 0.16ohms) represent the RATIO of distance to the fault from either end. An actual reading to the fault can be obtained by the following equation:
(r1 / (r1+r2)) x Cable length (end to end)
where r1 is resistance to fault from point 1,
r2 is resistance to fault from point 2
and cable length is obtained by direct measurement (cable route known) OR calculated as David did in this video using the CPC and line conductor. For this example, the calculation is as follows:
(0.13/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 1.88m from the point where the resistance was 0.13ohms
the same works the other way:
(0.16/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 2.32m from the point where the resistance was 0.16ohms.
In terms of the repair, I would put a 25mm box in between the run, wago the broken cable and blank plate it off
Least that way it’s accessible for future reference
Agree. In some cases you can even add a socket so that at least the fuckup provides some utility over a blank plate.
Agree with both these methods of repair.
I'd be pretty careful about doing that. I'm not sure that would be considered maintenance free.
@@1992jamoit doesn't need to be maintainance free as is accessible by removal of blanking plate.
That’s the oddest plastering job ever!! Looked more suited to the interior of a stable 😂
Maybe it is a a stable for humans.
The smugness when you found the fault without destroying the whole wall was just superb. Nicely done.
Imagine if I had found it in the first cut! I'd have tried to suck myself off on camera!
@@dsesuk I'm now desperately trying to get that image put of my head!
@@markrowland5393 I have Polaroids of prior attempts Mark. I'll send you a link...
@@dsesuk No, please no. Anything but that! It would put me off my frankfurter!
@@dsesuk
I'm now wondering where I post the green pukey face emoji on here.....
Great work! We can definitely see why the customer "lost confidence" in the original installer & wouldn't let him continue.
"Cack-handed." I haven't heard anyone, other than myself, use that term since moving to Canada 30 years ago. Love it!
Plenty of cack-handedness and ham-fistedness occurring over here!
@@dsesuk If lots of people in your neighbourhood like nailing things to the wall and you don't already own them, drop £10-£15 on a claw hammer and carpenter's pincers.
That plasterwork looks like a landlord special to me
I learnt so much from this video, to remain calm whilst fault finding is the key and slowly break it down methodically.
I generally get in a right old flap when fault finding. Brilliant David catch you soon
Electrical jedi at work
I like a good methodical fault-finding job. They can be a nightmare of course, but it's a great feeling when you determine the reason why things are happening and can correct it.
Fantastic video and making good use of the regs book. Your well worth every penny. Great job.
What an excellent video - nothing rocket science about it really just good old fashion fault finding method using sound principles. Bravo mate
I can remember being shown the Wheatstone Bridge calculator method at college all those years ago to ascertain the approximate position of a fault in a cable.
Seemed a complicated method but it did work on the fault that we were looking for.
We learnt that but can't remember it.
Hi david , absolutely love the videos .
I am an apprentice electrician and im learning loads watching your videos . They are helping me massively with all the tips and bits of knowledge you have shared with us.
Many thanks.
John Ward and Sparky Ninja also put out some good content. I didn't realize these videos helped so many people, perhaps I'll chuck a couple in of my own some time. Here is how you can turn the raw numbers into an actual measurement to the fault:
The two readings (0.13ohms and 0.16ohms) represent the RATIO of distance to the fault from either end. An actual reading to the fault can be obtained by the following equation:
(r1 / (r1+r2)) x Cable length (end to end)
where r1 is resistance to fault from point 1,
r2 is resistance to fault from point 2
and cable length is obtained by direct measurement (cable route known) OR calculated as David did in this video using the CPC and line conductor. For this example, the calculation is as follows:
(0.13/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 1.88m from the point where the resistance was 0.13ohms
the same works the other way:
(0.16/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 2.32m from the point where the resistance was 0.16ohms.
Good work Dave. Great fault finding... back to basics. I’ve used that method before 10/10. If you are a potential customer out there watching this and reading these comments.... BE PATIENT, PAY THE GOING RATE, CHECK RECOMMENDATIONS. Oh and count yourself very lucky if a Pro gives you another chance after a cowboy.
It’s not an ideal situation, but I would add two extra sockets.
Really good video. Definitely strengthens the case to test during the installation process, I know a lot of people that just rely on hope to pass testing after everything's finished. Enjoyed the mathematical way of finding the fault as well!
I’m not a tradesman but enjoy watching “professionals” at work. It is worrying how standards vary between electricians . Very impressed how you used maths to work out roughly where the fault was.
Well done 10/10 AAA+
Hi David, I never comment on anyones videos but this blew my mind on how informative this video is for a Sparky who is coming into the trade. Well done and please keep up the videos. you're doing a great job and an amazing Down to earth Sparky! can't wait to see more.
Thanks Keyur, I'm glad my babble is of use!
Most electricians would make a total mess. A little bit of ingenuity makes a huge difference. You just won at least a subscriber. Respect 🙌
You are a braver man than me, I would have walked away!
Excellent investigation and fix. A case of a choice between muck and nettles sorting out someone else's mess.
I have met that wood fibre board three years ago. It's an insulating product -1960s flats could leak heat like disgruntled cabinet ministers leak secrets, and it offers a way to improve an existing building, but is is a royal pain to fix, cover with a grid, plaster and finish, the finish can be like a badgers arse and coarse sandpaper, and the surface is weak. Trying to fix Anything to the wall is a pain because the ony thing which has any strength is 30 to 50 mm deep in the wall.
The wood fibre boards do claim to have a fire rating.
Previous person probably thought "It's deep enough that the safe zone doesn't apply anymore.
Yes, Rowan, heat loss prevention, acoustics (as only one thin layer of bricks and then breezeblock separate the inside from the outside. The house is in the town centre, next to a busy train station with diesel trains arriving from 5.30am onwards. Also, the gap in the wall between brick and breezeblock allows all the neighbours' TVs be heard in the flat. Finally, the idea was to have some degree of breathability.
Sadly, the plastering work was crap and needs to be redone, so what is in the video isn't the final finish by any stretch of the imagination.
Steico wood fibre boards and Adaptavate lime plaster is getting more popular even in this country, though it will take time for it to become more mainstream in construction.
WTF!! One of the biggest can of worms I've ever seen. Rather you than me David. Good luck to you fellah. Beats me what some people are thinking about.
Old school staggered wiring for ring circuits in conduit. Can be a pain in the arse to rewire because if extra sockets needed pipes never where you need them. All good fun from an electrician who has been doing it 41 years. Lol
This was a really interesting video. Fault finding genius at work. These type of vids are so useful. Thanks David
Great video. Best one I had was a bloke who wired his loft lights by splicing into the 40A shower circuit with coaxial cable! Got all the wiring tidied up, new cable to the routed to the shower but had to break the news to him that his shower no longer recieves BBC 2!
Fantastic video, one of your best in my opinion. Thank you!
Best of a bad bunch!
@@dsesuk
I hit like on your comment. I feel a little guilty now, acknowledging it with a like almost seems like I'm agreeing with you!
@@rubberlegs15
So you keep saying!
Fault finding from beginning to end and pretty much "nailing" (lol) the position to minimise damage was such a satisfying watch. Well done sir.
I absolutely love this kind of fault finding :) Great sense of satisfaction when you find it, and how close you were on the first attempt! Great video, and many thanks
You can get an actual number too if you drop the readings into this:
The two readings (0.13ohms and 0.16ohms) represent the RATIO of distance to the fault from either end. An actual reading to the fault can be obtained by the following equation:
(r1 / (r1+r2)) x Cable length (end to end)
where r1 is resistance to fault from point 1,
r2 is resistance to fault from point 2
and cable length is obtained by direct measurement (cable route known) OR calculated as David did in this video using the CPC and line conductor. For this example, the calculation is as follows:
(0.13/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 1.88m from the point where the resistance was 0.13ohms
the same works the other way:
(0.16/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 2.32m from the point where the resistance was 0.16ohms.
BB k or
Brilliant Jedi wizardry at finding that short in the run!!!
OMG it’s not only a video it’s an education nice work 👍
Thank s Dave for making this lock down a bit happier with your fine sparky work
this smacks to me as a client changing what they wanted after an initial install maybe
thats wat i thought!
agreed. first thing I thought. with jumping around and backtracking...
Bloody brilliant bit of fault finding, thanks David!
Using the maths a bit further, the resistance readings of 0.16+0.13 add up to 0.29 total. 0.13 is 44.8% of 0.29, so the fault should be 188cm from the right hand socket.
I wish I'd have been clever enough to think of that Thomas, as I could have looked quite the chap about town with a bit of micro-surgery on that wall in just the right spot!
That's what I thought:
The two readings (0.13ohms and 0.16ohms) represent the RATIO of distance to the fault from either end. An actual reading to the fault can be obtained by the following equation:
(r1 / (r1+r2)) x Cable length (end to end)
where r1 is resistance to fault from point 1,
r2 is resistance to fault from point 2
and cable length is obtained by direct measurement (cable route known) OR calculated as David did in this video using the CPC and line conductor. For this example, the calculation is as follows:
(0.13/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 1.88m from the point where the resistance was 0.13ohms
the same works the other way:
(0.16/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 2.32m from the point where the resistance was 0.16ohms.
Topman Remember when you did another job and the customer moaned at your price because of the short time it took you to do the job obviously not taking into account your expertise, so potentially your saved that customer additional costs on the plasterers making good Great to watch pal 👍
You're a genius! The way you diagnosed that fault is just on another level. Hats off to you Sir! A job well done.
Very kind, thank you.
@@dsesuk And I love your humour. Cracks me up everytime!
So the plaster is held on by magic? The whole place looks like a future full of pain.
@Dan Didnot It's supposed to stick to the board (which it doesn't really seem to do), the mesh's just there to keep it from cracking if the board shrinks or expands with changes of humidity. Some modern plasters stick ok to the weirdest surfaces - polystyrene boards being one of the more common ones in central and eastern Europe. All it takes to destroy it is a woodpecker though - or a bicycle handlebar. Or a door handle.
well, fault in plasterer's work, as he lay plaster too thinly and left too long between coats, so the first one was dry by the time he put mesh in. It has to be redone properly now.
I thought my plasterer did a shoddy job for me years ago, but this is on another level. If i had my wife up the wall, we would be covered in dust, and also doing it in the dark because the E7 kicked in and tripped the rcd.
@@Ragnar8504 No, it is supposed to stick to the board, the plasterer just didn't have a clue what he was doing. You are supposed to butter the fibreboard BEFORE putting on the mesh and then the mesah goes on and it's even usually doubled up in areas that you mention could be ploblems , like the seams. This guy knows what he is doing - th-cam.com/video/zjcNk4Z_WvE/w-d-xo.html
Meant to say, i've even seen a plasterer turn up with their kid and send him around staplegun-ing the mesh on to the walls (with no adhesive) while he has a smoke (and a beer probably) outside... The British guy had quoted "Polish rates" apparently but any truely Polish plasterers i've dealt with have always done a fantastic job, they know what they are doing and they take pride in their work...
This is why I prefer pipes to cables, fresh wires can be pulled in without opening the walls, as long as total diameter is within size and corners are smooth or accessible.
Very interesting video, I will be showing this to my students in Year 3.
Sorry for the bad language!
@@dsesuk I think the language along with "cowboy slagging" will keep them enthralled; no doubt the students could teach you a few more swear words anyway. Please keep up the good work of making the conscientious amongst us feel much better about making the effort to do a good job and highlighting just how bad some timed served tradesmen really are. I would have gone to the same effort to reduce the repair as you did but left feeling that most wouldn't have done and am I the only idiot making so much effort for a client who probably won't appreciate the care; turns out I'm not! As for the plastering....WTF!! I've seen similar done on external rendering (which you generally don't try installing backboxes into) but never inside. Did I see hoof marks in the lower corner of the living room?
Sir, what's a pink oboe? 🤣
@@Tomoose1985 See me after class in the detention room boy!
Add extra socket
Hey David, am so glad you are enjoying my new ring random socket install process I like to call it the Leg multiple area output (or LMAO) method, it's good to see its keeping you on your toes and thanks as ever for sorting out my historic death traps, may I long keep you in gainful employment 😘
That was an absolutely brilliant piece of detective work and one worth sharing as a lesson on how to work out a fault position and also, how not to install capping! Respect! 😁👍
The only part missing was the final calculation to get an actual reading of distance to the fault. Not that there is anything wrong with the faulting technique! The two readings (0.13ohms and 0.16ohms) represent the RATIO of distance to the fault from either end. An actual reading to the fault can be obtained by the following equation:
(r1 / (r1+r2)) x Cable length (end to end)
where r1 is resistance to fault from point 1,
r2 is resistance to fault from point 2
and cable length is obtained by direct measurement (cable route known) OR calculated as David did in this video using the CPC and line conductor. For this example, the calculation is as follows:
(0.13/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 1.88m from the point where the resistance was 0.13ohms
the same works the other way:
(0.16/(0.13+0.16)) x 4.2 = 2.32m from the point where the resistance was 0.16ohms.....
Another method of locating faults like this is the use of a tone and amp (as used in data cabling) where a loud point can sometimes be heard using the amp without breaking the wall first. It doesn't always work but its a useful addition.
An absolutely superb job Dave.just brilliant old school thorough testing.well done sir.
Outstanding effort inspector savery or should that be sherlock OHMS 🤣 twatson would agree im sure
Missed opportunity to say, "Dr Wattson".
I think Twatson went Ohm 😁elementary my dear boy!!
When I was an apprentice in New Zealand an old spark I worked with from the UK showed me how to wire in this method. His reasoning was that if we lost power on one circuit, it didn't take out one particular area/room because we will still have power from another feeder in that room.
Ive heard of wiring a ring on every second socket to.. its to do with keeping the cable lengths equal as 'current runs down the path of least resistance' so if you have a heavy load at the furthest point the current should be equal 'or there abouts' between both legs of the ring main..
Apparently..
Yes correct. If you have a ring that has 2.5mm from the CU daisy chained to all the sockets and the length is quite long, with the end socket having one uninterrupted cable back to the CU forming the ring, the 1st & 2nd sockets on heavy loads can put too much load on the cable from the CU to the 1st socket. Line of least resistance.
If there is not going to be any heavy appliances on the ring as they are in the kitchen on separate circuits, then daisy chaining, as per normal, is fine.
I’m an old boy and have been stuck in my ways. I had a real issue with this but now I’ve broken away from that mindset and still learning after all the years on the tools. Some new ideas make so much more sense.
I was taught that same method as it helps avoid a long return leg, but for fault finding its a pain in the a**e!
How does it? One leg goes to the nearest socket heading in one direction, and the other leg goes to the second nearest socket going in the other direction.
That is fantastic way to figure out a fault. Genius!
Hi David,
Great vid, I think you could have used the ratios of the resistances from each end to calculate the 'exact' position eg 4.2m / (0.13+0.16)) * 0.13 = 1.88m from one end of the wire or 4.2m / (0.13+0.16)) * 0.16 = 2.32m from the other end.
When I go back for second fix, I'll have to do some measurements to see if this checks out Olly. There's only so much maths I can cope with, but had I thought about it this might have worked! I'd have looked like a hell of a smartarse then!
@@dsesuk
Olly is right! Of course with a fault that is NOT a full short, the measurement can wander and this can give inaccurate results.
@@dsesuk You're already a chad, a master!
Forgive me if someone has already covered this, but I didn't see any comments of this type.
IF you wished to determine the position of the fault by calculation you could :
Add the 2 resistance readings (0.13+0.16), subtract the resistance of the L&E wires (0.08) and divided the result by 2.
This gives the resistance of the fault between N&E. (0.13 + 0.16 - 0.08) / 2 = 0.105 ohms
Subtract this fault resistance from the 2 readings : 0.13 - 0.105 = 0.025 0.16 - 0.105 = 0.055 (note 0.025 + 0.055 = 0.08)
You now have the ratio of the distance of the fault from each end. (Assume total distance is 420cm)
cms from closest end = 420 x 0.025 / 0.08 = 131.25 cm From furthest end = 420 x 0.055 / 0.08 = 288.75 cm
All this does of course depend on knowing the path of the cable, but you covered this comprehensively in your video by testing Line & Earth resistance and dividing by tabulated figs per meter. Then comparing to the measured distance.
Hope this might be of help to someone where the cabling is more complex.
A shame I didn't explore the maths further on this one Gerald, as you'd all be smelling my farts for a week had I narrowed it down to an exact location!
Still find it strange why people use capping over oval tube. Seems like such hard work and such risk of damage to cables
It's okay I guess if you know how to knock a nail in!
David Savery Electrical Services true true
Could be the plasterer has a reputation! There are electrical reasons for not using it at all in my opinion.
Im one of the new boys. Been doing small jobs for 40 years but decided to go on a domestic installer course in the past month as 11 years before retirement, I now find myself out of work. The last two jobs I have done were done by the "I've been doing it like this for 40 years" type sparky.
Both jobs were crap, dangerous and unprofessional. I am so pleased that you pointed that bit out.
Oh and I think I am learning more from you and your videos than I have learnt in 40 years and in the course that I have just taken, so thank you 👍
Money aside, looks like you’ll regret taking this on board.
This is really clever. I am not an electrician, I am a developer but next time I am told a whole wall needs to be opened I will remember this video.
Really good fault finding - I’ve used a similar method in the past
Cheers Gareth!
It’s Friday night and I’m at home learning. What a detective masterpiece. 🎉🤣
Assuming the fault is equal on both legs, which it was.... You could have calculated the fraction of the fault along the length of it.... I can't recall the continuity values between N-CPC.... I think it was 0.13 and 0.16....
Expressed as a whole, thata 0.29.... Therfore 0.13 / 0.29 is approx 45% the length of cable....
Which is 1.88m of the 4.2m length ....
Do that and mark out that location on the wall for both lengths 1.88m from socket A 2.32 from socket B, should put you in I good position for finding faults.
Instead of measuring r1+r2, I'd have done a long lead test on the line conductor as that wasn't damaged to ascertain the length of cable....
As for the repair, crimp with staggered joins and heatshrink each conductor aswell as entire length of joint with larger heat shrink... Each to thier own
Thanks Craig, I'm liking the thinking. With regard to heat shrink, it's the larger size I lack on the van, otherwise I would have been more disposed to have done it that way on the day.
A very common fault finding method in Telecoms this is; resistive fault locator RFL (some call it a bridge test). It would be a handy tool to have on a Sparky's meter.
johnmcquay82 also know as a TDR? Time domain reflectometer?
@@craighawkinsch No TDR relies on the reflection time of an injected pulse. TIME Domain REFLECTometer or OTDR (Optical TDR) for fibre. What johnmcauay82 is referring to is essentially comparing ratios of resistance values. It's based around the principles of a wheatstone bridge and is very common in both the telecom industry but also used a lot by the distribution people to locate issues on underground networks.
For what it's worth I was a bit of a cross over. Many utility companies including the one I worked for ran their own telecom networks; I was an electrical engineer working within the internal telecom department. Interesting job.
That's the trouble with fault finding . Doing the best repair that you can . Works for me the repair you carried out .
Thanks John
At least all the negative comments "boost engagement", as the Technology Connections channel host says! 😉
Being an electrician in the industrial sector, I've seen some odd and/or dumb crap. But this type of installation? You can't simply just change the cable ?! WHO thought of this? We have simple PVC-piping between the accessory points. Kudos on the technical skills and fixing someone who seems to have worked for 40 seconds doing this...utter disgrace to leave something like that. Thumbs up!
He has staggered his sockets. But would have been easier to just perimeter ring it in that installation.
Second time watching this to refresh my education.Good work here thanks David.
that's Two of us now
David I used to wire rings in this way some 30 odd years ago, it was the norm back then , in one miss one , I was taught to do it this way when you had a dead end wall and have to come back on yourself rather than looping over to the board
Cheers Dan, it's not a method I've come across before so interesting to see it in action! I knew there had to be a reason behind it!
Yeah, the ‘older’ guys i work with do this, it makes sense in a large trunking run but i like to do it the conventional way as much as i can so its more logical when testing.
@@s.kxx1956 Not seen so much domestically it seems, which is why I've perhaps not come across it before.
Easiest way is to divide the cable length by the sum of the two resistances then multiply by the one of the resistances to find the distance from the point that resistance was measured.
So for the distance from the 0.13Ω resistance it'd be:
420cm / (0.16Ω + 0.13Ω) x 0.13Ω = 188cm
Also, rather than looking up the specification for the cable, you can just measure the resistance per unit length from a length that hasn't been installed.
That calculation assumes a dead short. This was not a dead short.
@@alanbeard4871 No, it does not assume that at all. It's a ratio which can be applied.
Charge phone on off peak 😂
Might save enough to buy a cup of coffee by Christmas!
David Savery Electrical Services In what year would that be Dave 😀 keep up the good work
Possibly also against suppliers rules for off peak tariff usage?
@@dsesuk I doubt it. I saw a calculation recently showing the cost of charging a phone for a year to be about 60p. Running laundry equipment off-peak is a good idea, but not, of course, on a final circuit shared with a heater.
I’d be charging a bank of big marine batteries overnight on the cheap rate and then using an inverter to power the house during the day :)
I was under the impression that the peak consumer unit also switched over to the Economy 7 rate too during the Eco 7 times so having the Eco 7 sockets for charging laptops etc would he a waste of time anyway.
Hats off for finding that fault too, how it should be done!
On my house, it's just a tariff change rather than a physical switchover. Here, the time clock is switching on the off-peak board, but I suspect the metering for the whole property is also being clocked at the lower tariff as you say.
You obviously not hungover enough to be out that early 😂. Another cracking video to boot
Cracking video quite literally!!!!
Cheers Craig
Early? It's daylight! That's not early!
superb inspector clouseau what a bodge and scarper candidate that indian sparky was dammn !
As soon as I'd seen that fiberboard on the walls I think I would have walked away. Looks like a major fire hazard to me.
You made me think there as I'm considering using it so I did a quick bit of research, I know this is probably not the exact product used but t should be similar. Far better than I was expecting, video is worth checking out.
www.steico.com/en/steico-benefits/fire-protection/
@@kissarmy1347 I think it's actually the very same product. I'd be more concerned about the plaster falling off after watching this video!
@@kissarmy1347 Correct, it is Steico.
@@Ragnar8504 well, there wasn't much luck with tradesmen here, sadly, hence plastering is being done again by proper professionals, recommended by the plaster manufacturer, so fingers crossed it will stay.
Brilliant! That wall "construction" is a complete nightmare. Why would any builder do it like that?
39:00 Me personally I would probably install receptacle, go over a few feet cut another hole and install another receptacle box. Put a new piece of wire between the two.
But why would you do that? 2 joints and more work.
Thanks for flying the flag for new ish to the industry electricians, I know you came into it late from a similar industry to me, have been dealing with electrical principles for 22 years, I want all my work to be above standard and correct and I’m sick of reading and hearing about all these ‘new’ guys being slated in every conversation. Thanks again and great video as usual.
Unfortunately Michael, "time served" can mean "set (incorrectly) in one's ways"!
I think.?
(4.2/0.16+0.13)x0.13=exact position
Correct, if working from the right end of the cable in the video - 188cm or 0.13/(0.16+0.13) = 0.45 or 45% of the length. It's simply a ratio of lengths. I actually just posted something like this too.
This is like watching a 101 of 'how to spot the failures of someone who should not have qualified'. Impressed. Hope the guy who did the work never comes any where near me, or mine. Bravo.
I dunno, I think some of the old-schoolers just think they've reached peak knowledge and don't ever need to re-think, check or learn anything new.
@@dsesuk In my field I find it appalling at the basic errors made, and those who 'assume' that their years of experience 'over-way' those who employ modern standards, and it is a terrible situation. 'Experience' is certainly a remarkable, and hard earned 'respect'. However standards are 'good practice' for a reason, and even the most experienced need to have an approach that embraces those standards. However hitting a nail through a cable is rather 'baby stuff' is it not? Great to watch you find a solution.
@@dsesuk
So true. I think we should all try to remain open to new knowledge and never assume you are done learning.
The night time socket for growing cannabis
I hope their grow-lights don't need too much current.
you now have my total respect.
Fkn amazing detective work. Really enjoyed the lesson.
other things about French electrics, having lived there 14 years!
a lot of houses are supplied with 3 phase, it gets the pulse racing when you open a junction box and there are 5 very fat wires looking at you, some with 380 volts! Each part of the house uses a different leg of the phase, you have to try to balance them to get the best out of it.
You can't use as much power as you want - the electricity contract is for a specified number of amps, if you exceed that the meter trips and you are in the dark. Then it is a case of switching off heaters until it will tolerate being switched on again. The EDF standing charge goes up if you want more amps.
The wall sockets don't have a on-off switch, so you have to unplug.
Very many homes don't have wiring buried in the walls, they prefer trunking, along the wall, around the door frame etc. It is cheaper and accessible.
gotta laugh!
Crikey, I don't like the idea of being under contract for current consumption! I've no experience of French electrics, so it's very interesting to hear of the differences!
Typically French wiring is in flexible trunking that can be buried. Because it is so common it is very cheap (25mm less than £20 per100metres) It means you can replace even long lengths of cable without disturbing the decor as you avoid sharp corners. You can also make up your own cable putting as many individual conductors as you need - many different diameters of conduit (sheath) are available. You can even snake it between stones in irregular stone walls.
This is amazingly educational. Cheers.
Top educational video, top electrician.
I come across "tradesman" all the time who say they have been doing a job for so many years
It just means that they have been doing it wrong for so many years
The number of years you have been working isn't an excuse for your bodgery
40 years ago was 1980 , that was when the rot set in.
Amen.
Excellent and educational. Your solution was the only viable option. Maintenance free JB. What the hell are those blocks though 😂
They look like thermalite blocks, designed for their insulating properties. I think they are largely concrete but full of little air bubbles. Easy to scrape holes into and used on external walls to increase thermal efficiency. If the cables had been routed correctly (not below the backboxes), I'd have removed the nail, got rid of the sharp hole left in the capping and attached a new cable to the damaged one then tried pulling it through (preferably with an assistant pushing the cable in from the other end to help it get round the tight corner. Not an option here though....
Hi David, Where I did my apprenticeship one of the sparks did it this he called it frog looping I believe. He did it in trunking as it saves bringing a leg all the way back down the length of trunking.
Hope you and Nige are keeping well
Thanks Jordan. It isn't a method I've come across in my time (perhaps surprisingly), but from the sound of it seems to be more common in trunking than when buried in the wall?
Makes more sense in trunking I’d say but in a house? Seems move of a pain
i have seen this in new builds & its a pain in the ass to fault find, especially between rooms. I believe this method mainly comes from industrial installations, where you have a row of sockets installed in trunking or conduit.
Every day I learn something new.. Love the scientific ways finding faults which is great enabling electricians use these books.. Thanks alot for sharing your knowledge with others ❤
One of the best videos I've watched
😳 take a bow sir. Thank you for sharing your skills DID (DETECTIVE inspector DAVE) very useful trick taken down for future reference
I'm polishing my bobby's helmet as we speak
@@dsesuk well you did say hand job at the end of the vid 🤦♂️
This did help on 3 questions in my last exam thanks again.
Brilliant video. Great to see some in depth fault finding. And thanks for sticking up for the young blood.
Dave if that is a 1960s flat, it must be infested with asbestos. Be careful out there fella.
Great video as always.
Keep them coming.
Absolutely fantastic fault finding there 👏🏻 can’t believe that’s me just getting involved with the channel but will be binge watching the rest over the coming days and weeks
Welcome to the awfulness!
That method of wiring rings.....leap frogging......it’s a method I was taught when wiring sockets in dado trunking. As others have said, it saves running a long link back to CU from last socket. I was taught this as an apprentice in 2000.
I bunked off that lesson!
Dave I salute you sir for finding the fault the way you did great job 👍
Cheers Alan
Excellent diagnosis and finding the fault. Never knew this could be done, but then I'm a basic diyer house tinkerer
Yes , you clever old sod, I am quite impressed.....
Plastering also falls into category 'crock of shit'...3 months of labouring for someone else and they're builders, lol