Britain's Final Steam Locomotives | The BR Standards
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A video featuring the wonderful BR standard locomotives available in model form!
Note: Bachmann actually do produce the Mogul version of the Standard 4 tender loco!
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0:00 Introduction to BR standards
1:34 Class 2
4:13 Class 3 tank
6:21 Class 4 tank
8:54 Class 4 tender
10:57 Class 5
13:24 Class 6
15:46 Class 7
18:03 Class 8
20:29 Class 9f
23:22 End of the standards - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Hi Sam the mogul version of the Class 4 does exist. It's a Bachmann locomotive; models 32-950 to 32-956, they only did one production run but a few are available second hand! Great vid as always!!
Split chassis?
Different versions of it, too - including a double chimney and the high running plate Flying Pig - though that might not count as a BR Standard as I believe it was an LMS Ivatt design.
No,regular setup.@@AdiPullen
@@beatsinabar the 43xxx Mogul isn't a Standard for the reasons you mention although it embodied similar logic
Hey Sam, have a google of 72010 for the new build Clan class locomotive. Being built in Sheffield alongside the new build B17.
Although no Class 6s survived into preservation, CTL Seal are in the process of building a new build loco of the class in Sheffield! Numbered 72010 and named Hengist
Ahh awesome - will be great to see that one finished! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fun Video! Just to say though, Evening Star is still with us and still in one piece! Being the last steam locomotive to be built for British railways, no way would they cut up an section her. I believe the locomotive you were thinking of is "Ellerman Line", a Merchant Navy class which was cut open to show how a steam locomotive works.. again, on display at York.
9F's are no longer allowed to run on the national network because the centre set of driving wheels are flangeless. This was to allow them to traverse tight curves with such a long wheel base, but rail executives got worried about this design feature, so the locos were banned.. Can still see them on preservation lines though! With a healthy number in preservation ( 9 errr... 9F's) , there isn't as much a need to restore 92220 to steam, along with the aforementioned ban.
Oh and, for BR coach liveries, Maroon was probably the most common, especially by the 1960's. You also had BR Green for coaches, EMU and DMS, but this was for the Southern Region. You also had bright red for commuting and branch line coaching stock ect. The Western region kept chocolate and cream for a time, a call back to the days of the GWR.. Blood and custard being a standard livery for the 50's, but this transitioned to BR Maroon before the rebrand into British Rail
Enjoyed the video though!
It's a shame that 9Fs can't operate on the mainline. I'm sure there'd be huge demand to ride behind it.
Thanks very much for the info! Ahh that's a pity about them not being able to run on the main line too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That's daft, not being able to run because the center drivers are blind. The proof is in the pudding, as they say: Were they accident prone on account of this? I doubt it, because it's normal practice to have central drivers (or even pairs!) blind in the U.S. A normal Mikado here has the two central pairs of drivers blind, as F-B-B-F. I'd be worried about derailing on curves due to "stiffness" if they weren't.
many 9fs worked passenger work especially summer specials to the seaside, not just evening star
Yes, and unless I'm very much mistaken they were booked traction for heavier passenger services over the Somerset and Dorset route until its closure.
@@blackjockofmangertonpele Yep. In fact, Evening Star hauled the last Pines Express over the S&D before it was rerouted.
I’ve always loved the looks of 1940s era British steam locomotives, they all look so stylish!
They're super cool aren't they! Glad you liked them,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I love some of the late era steam locomotives such as this and the World War II era stuff! Personally, in my opinion, most steam engines from the 1930s onwards I think are some of the best ones ever made and as a result I intend to model a mix of both these, and early and modern day diesel locomotives. As for my favorite of the BR standard class locomotives, it is easily the 9F and in particular evening star. By the way, have you run models of A1 peppercorn tornado alongside, any of its original class members like Saint Mungo WP Allen or north British?
The mogul 4 2-6-0 has been produced by bachmann. Also the standard 5 had 6ft 2 wheels as opposed 6ft.
Yes it has, i have the one thats preserved on the NYMR & its a nice well detailed loco. Also I think the Duke is a very fine model, its very hard to tell if the detail is moulded or separately fitted.
Duly noted! Thanks for the info :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
What a fantastic delightful overview Sam, both on the closing era by the last British steamers and your collection! Well professionally articulated as ever and very pleasingly didactic as we know you. We do learn so much here about the British history of rails. Just wonderful! Cheerio.
Thank you so much that was lovely to read!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Ah! Mister Sam, what a lovely and instructive video! Bloody brilliant presentation, excellent narration, and the loco running sessions showcase made it complete! I appreciate your well researched covering of Britain’s final steam locomotives. As a model train enthusiast, I truly enjoyed it! Many thanks to you, dear boy! Top lad!
Cheers, mate! 👍
Giovanni Marino, M.D.🇬🇧🇮🇹
Although there are none of the Clan Class in preservation, There is a project in progress to build a new one, No 72010 that is making good progress.
Hello Sam, great video as always. However, it is not Evening Star that is cut open at NRM, it is a Merchant Navy called "Clan Line". Evening Star is still very much in one piece, and the reason Evening Star and other 9f locos can't be used on the mainline anymore is due to their flangless centre driving wheels and concerns it could cause derailments on modern rails, thus prohibited from mainline and only allowed on heritage routes
It’s actually merchant navy 35029 Ellerman Lines that’s been sectioned in multiple places including boiler in the NRM
You Sir are correct.
@@Smithy92 ah yes of course. I couldn't remember which one, I just remember it was a Merchant Navy. Thank you for the correction
bachmann has done a class 4 2-6-0 but not been in the catologe for a few years
The loco you saying “cut it half” is a merchant navy 35029.
Evening star was take out of service because 1 set of wheels didn’t have a flange, so It was feared that it could come of the track and the other was the ticket for the boiler ran out and need repairs.
Yeah absolutely - could have sworn it was Evening star, but definitely isn't having looked it up - apologies for that haha!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Is that actually the reason Evening Star isn’t running anymore because all the 9F’s had a flangeless set of wheels, and several are still in operation? Maybe it can’t be mainline certified and because of that the NRM didn’t want to pay for another overhaul?? I’m really confused now lol, I just assumed the locomotive was in bad shape and that’s why it isn’t running anymore.
Correct, it's nothing to do with derailment risk caused by the Flangeless middle axle... Ironically, it was made flangeless to stop it derailing. The problem is that chairs on modern track work (the bits that hold the rail on the sleepers) are not made as robust as they used to be and subsequently, the thumping action from any steam locomotive with Driving Wheels less than 4ft in diameter has been deemed to much for modern chairs to handle. Failures of these would cause a derailment!
@@brlsm9141 oh that makes more sense! I wonder why the chairs are made out of poorer quality material though? I get that diesels and electrics are far smoother than steamers, but you would think that companies would want to upgrade their rails rather than downgrade them. Is it just the chairs on the mainline and not heritage railways as well, because there are several 9F’s that are still in steam?
@@modelrailfan37 it's simply a cost saving measure and it's the sleepers that bear most of the weight, all a chair does is hold the rail in place on the sleeper... You may find some newer types on Heritage railways, but most heritage rail track is 2nd hand track purchased from either industrial sites that have closed or retired mainline track itself.... As heritage rail lines are not allowed to exceed 25mph, the track doesn't need to maintain the same standards as mainline rail.
1968 was the last year for steam on BR . With only flying scotman doing steam tours for a long time before others could return to the main line
Hi Sam. Its a Merchant Navy that was sectionalised at the NRM, although Im told that will be getting a new boiler and running gear to make it work again. Evening Star is in the Great Hall though next to Mallard. Or rather it was last time I saw it.
Hi Sam , just to let you know that there is standard 3 being built on the Severn valley railway atm 👍
Ya, the new standard three tank will be super cool! I can’t wait to see the final result, it’s already looking great!!
That's awesome - I'd love to go and see that when it's done! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A good summary. Incidentally there is a new build 3mt 2-6-2T - 82045 it was at Warley in 2022. Sadly no model of 2mt 2-6-2T but there is a project to convert a real 2MT tender loco to the tank version 84030 - hopefully Bachmann will do likewise in OO
Thank you! Ahh was that a rebuild?? Very cool stuff!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hornby really need to introduce the Standard 2MT Tanks and have a limited edition 84030
Honestly even though they're not apricieated enough br standards are nice engines. Nice work Sam and keep up the great videos!
Yeah some of them are nifty aren't they! Thanks so much,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam I wanted to give you an update on my GER P43 project. It's been a really along time since I opened the files, but recently I've been working on it and It's coming along really nice. I'll keep you updated.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Have seen Evening Star at NRM York... while it isn't in running condition it isn't cut open. It is often next to Bulleid locomotive 'Ellerman Lines' 4-6-2 Merchant Navy Class No 35029 that has been section so you can see how steam works. Great video thanks Sam.
Love those Standards SAM and a very nice tribute. Class 6 none preserved but are hoping to build 72010 Hengist. Also 3MT none preserved but 82045 (new build) is getting close to completion! This will make representatives of all 12 classes complete!
Fantastic video. The whole standard situation had always been interesting to me. I’ve read a lot about it, but brining to life using models was a joy to behold.
Fantastic roll-up of the BR classes. Huge fun and thank you so much!
9F number 92134 which is based on the North York Moors Railway, is not allowed as far as I am aware on the BR section between Grosmont and Whitby, due to the derailment risk. Other NYMR steam locos are of course allowed on the section.
What a wonderful selection!! The BR Standard Class was a brilliant bunch of locomotives. They were all loved by both drivers and other staff of British Railways.
The good news is, in real life, there are currently new builds in progress for the class three tank and the class 6.
The class three is quite a long way into construction too, it almost resembles a near finished locomotive! The clan is much further off though
With the BR Standards and their Mk1 stock being closely inspired and derived from LMS rolling stock, I guess you can say the LMS' legacy lives on through the BR. Even their diesels resemble BR's early Peak classes. Nice video, Sam!
Hi Sam! The 2-6-4 = Adriatic
The Tri-ang 3Mt 2-6-2T was the very first model Loco I had. Long gone now but I now have a Bachmann example
I also much prefer the LMS Black 5 especially considering I've been able to get onto the footplate of number 44871 twice which is an incredible experience. Amazing video Sam!
Hey Sam, nicely researched and presented as always. The mighty 9F always does it for me. Cheers
Thanks for this one Sam! Very interesting. I'm a big fan of two groups of locos: firstly Gresley's designs for the LNER because they're beautiful and, to me, sort of how a steam loco should look; and secondly the BR standards because they look so businesslike and industrial. I particularly like the muscular looks of the 3 & 4 tanks but the 9F is top dog.
That was very interesting and informative. I didn't know much about BR steam so learned a lot. You should consider similar themed videos even if you dont personally have every possible loco!
Bachmann have recently done a new run with improved internals for dcc, including the 2-6-0 standard 4 that's on the North Norfolk Railway. Dad works on the model railway at holt and they had one donated to the layout.
Awesome video! I really like the BR Standards, they are so underrated!!
I really enjoyed this episode. Great history. Thank you!
A good video here Sam, definitely like the BR standards especially the pacific locomotives.
Thanks David - yeah they're cool aren't they!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It's not Evening Star that has her boiler but open that's Ellerman lines Merchant navy at the NRM. Apparently she was the 999th standard class built. Ultimately the 9f are my favourite steam loco though I love the standard 3mtt. I'd argue Robert riddles was very underrated and doesn't get the kudos he deserved.
An excellent video Sam, thank you. I must be a bit odd as the standard class 4 tank is one of my favorite loco's. I just think they look so well proportioned. Thanks again as I learned a lot.
Good overview! However there were still over 20 Standard Class 5's running in 1968. The Standard Class 4 Tank engines were all black in BR service. Your version was painted green after being preserved.
Thank you for making this video, Sam - BR Standards are my favourite and i see them very regulary at my local heritage railway! Sadly, I don't own a model of any of them, but hoping to get my hands on a Standard 2MT when I can (the price is too high)!
It’s a shame that the BR Standards were short lived due to the rapid switch to diesel. But thankfully a lot of them are preserved and the extinct ones are planned to be revived.
Sam there is a Bachmann class 4 mogul: eg 32-954 Class 4MT 2-6-0 76058 a Southern Region based example which I have in my collection. May I also correct your point about BR coach liveries - Blood and Custard was the original standard livery after nationalisation then in the mid 50s some regions (which were still quite powerful in the BR management organisation) wanted to highlight their distinctive pre-nationalisation liveries with Western Region going to GWR Chocolate the Cream, Southern to Green while London Midland and Eastern Region accepted the new standard BR Maroon which replaced Blood and Custard. This carried on until the BR Blue Grey livery was introduced after 1965.
I just picked myself up a Hornby class 5 yesterday. My first ever loco! I had a gwr starter train set about a decade ago glad to be getting into the hobby again now that I have money to sink into it 😅.
What a wonderfully informative video. Thank you!
I'm not a fan of steam but I am a fan of this channel. As always, well filmed, well researched, interesting and well presented. Always a delight.
Hi Sam; an excellent video; a trip through history, a journey through history in 00 scale. Truely enjoyable; thankyou again. All best Marc from Leighton Buzzard
Nice video Sam. Evening Star is my favourite - as you say the name suits the BR sad goodbye to steam.
Amazing feats of engineering in real life and great models.
👍
Merchant Navy 35029 Ellerman Lines is the one with the boiler cut open in the NRM, Evening Star is alright =)
An interesting point about the 4MT Standard tank. A Hornby Dublo (ie, proper Hornby!) model was used by the Atomic Energy Authority's Radiation Research Laboratory in Wantage to collect samples of irradiated plastic...
You never mentioned the valve gear on the class 8!
BR also had the maroon liveried coaches (which would be an appropriate match for the later crest loco's) and Southern Region had green coaches. Carriages for local and suburban trains were also painted scarlet initially (appropriate for early crested locos)
Yeah absolutely - more than just those two liveries for sure - blue and grey is another - I think the blood and custard/chocolate and creams are the classic ones though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks Sam, an interesting wrap-up.
My favourite br era loco ( not standard but new to them) was the peppercorn A1
Very interesting piece of history really. Referring to the question asked I think some of the MT's could be updated (except for the 2MT beacause it's baisicly new) and some of the tender variations could be introduced. To be honest I burst in laughter when I had heard that Duke of Gloucester preservation part. Also, yes he's later performance after modifications is indeed a total irony! Cheers and thanks for another video :)
The 2-6-0 4MTs were common on the old GER and M&GN networks here in Norfolk, shame you didn't have an example of it. Love these historical review videos.
I'm not a big steam fan but I like this kind of historical content so, thanks for that, Sam! (I have to say, I rather like the exposed pipework, reminds me more of the German steam I'm vaguely more familiar with.)
I would love to see a standard 3 tender engine. I guess as only 20 were built in real life, and those being a bit of a mish mash design and limited to certain areas of operation, I could be waiting some time! Great vid again Sam
I like all of them
I wish they make the rest so we can have the compete set of the BR standards class's.
I'm definitely going to try to get all of these
I love the BR standards all my favorite locos tbh
There was a Bachmann class 4 mogul- I have a model of preserved 76079 (a.k.a. "Pocket Rocket"), and it's a potent performer, just like the real thing!!
sam thanks for this very informative video
Hi Sam, nice video. I have only one Standard, that being the new Hornby 9F Evening Star. If I were to buy any other Standards they would be 7 Britannia class and the 8 Duke of Glouster. Regarding the story of the Duke of Glouster and why it performed so poorly as built was that the workers who assembled her did not follow the plans provided by her designer. As of result there were those problems you mentioned. When she was saved and rebuilt, they corrected the mistakes of the original builders.
As for the short service lives of the Standards, the same thing happened here in the United States, where many steam locomotives built during and after WWII also had short lives because of the introduction of diesels.
Great overview of Britain’s trains standardization and now the models depicting them. General question: Any idea of what steam designs/classes were used by Ireland pre and post 1949?
A decent summary of the Standards, although I noticed a few mistakes that other people have already pointed out, and I'm surprised that you didn't mention the fact that Duke of Gloucester has the unusual Caprotti valve gear. She's one of only two preserved British engines to be equipped with such valve gear; the other one is Standard 5MT 4-6-0 No. 73129. As for the Hornby model, I think it's meant to depict 71000 in her preservation era condition, based on the coal pusher being modelled as part of the tender detail. As for the 9F class, Evening Star was not the only 9F to haul passenger trains in BR service, but she was the only member of her class to be painted in the BR green livery from new, though I can't remember why she got this livery instead of black.
Regardless of the numerous factual errors in the video, I've got models of a few engines from the BR Standard range in my collection too; my favourite either being the 3MT tank in BR lined green or the Crosti-boiler 9F. At some point, I want to get a 6MT 'Clan' as well.
One time, I took the Standard 3 with me when I went for a cab ride at my local heritage railway. I even got a photograph of the model on her little piece of display track, but she was sitting on the front running board of the diesel locomotive (DBR 1199, to be specific).
The Standards are lovely locomotives. Dare I say they’re my favorite kind!
My favourite is the Clan Class....
Great idea for a video, I found this informative and entertaining....
🙏👍🙂🇳🇿
Hi Sam great video as always but really enjoyed this one 😊
Awesome video today Sam very interesting and my favourite is the 9f
Hi Sam, evening star’s boiler isn’t cut up at the NRM. That’s ellerman lines. Evening star is close to it though or it could be next to it.
In 1952 it would have been interesting had BR gone with scaled down EMD BoBo and CoCo locomotives suited for BR loading guage. Something like a double cab GP9 and SD9.
Bachmann make a Standard 4 2-6-0, look in the Hattons product database!
I remember me and my friend were working on a standard class 5 a year or so ago, I got the tender all finished up but we abandoned the project which was pretty sad cause now I have a nice standard 5 tender with no engine for it lol
82001 worked out of Bristol Barrow Road withdrawn 31 12 1965 seen on the S&D having spent all its life on the WR. Bachmann have produced a number of Class 4 moguls with different tender styles for both the SR and Sc.R. To end reminder that a brand new Clan, 72010 'Hengist' and a St cl 3 82045 are currently being built. Finally lined maroon was the main colour for coaching stock across the system other than the SR (green) while chocolate and cream were used on 'named' trains on the WR. Blood and custard was an early attempt to find a suitable colour scheme.
Nice models them Sam. Personal favourite is the Brittania/Standard 7. Maybe I'm biased towards locomotives that would have ran on the West Coast Main Line, but they really are beautiful machines.
Bachmann don't produce a BR Standard Class 2 2-6-2T Sam, they produce an Ivatt.
Bachmann do produce a Std 4 mogul.
The Std 4 tank is not a 2-6-4 'reverse pacific' it's a 2-6-4 Adriatic (Whytes wheel arrangement used a lot of ocean references).
As an aside and a matter of interest, the Hush Hush 4-6-4 is referred to as a Baltic wheel arrangement.
There's a new-build Clan project well underway.
Quite a few 9Fs did passenger work and one is recorded as replacing a failed pacific on the ECML, achieving in excess of 90mph on an express passenger between Grantham and King's Cross and after that run the 9F's were restricted to a maximum speed of I think it was 50 or 60 mph because the wheel bearings weren't designed for high speed running.
Evening Star is in tact - it is a Merchant Navy class (Ellerman Line) with an open boiler.
Sam,in the US,during WW1,there was the USRA,which designed a series of Standard locomotives! The designs were copied and upgraded,and thankfully,there are survivors! So,I do believe that British Railways got the impetus to do their designs from the US,experience! Just a thought,and an excellent video! Thank you 😇 😊!!
Great Work On The Video.
Interesting Sam - think I have quite a few of those class of Locos!!! 🤔🚂🚂🚂
An innovative and useful video. I often wonder what the next generation of BR standard locos would have looked like, indeed also what was on the drawing boards of the Big Four prior to nationalisation/standardisation. Given that Hornby has produced a model of a class where only one loco existed would any manufacturer be brave enough to produce a model of a loco that never got off the drawing board?
I think it's a Merchant Navy Class 'Ellerman Lines' that is cut open for display at the NRM, Evening Star is all together still, love the video :)
Awesome video Sam's trains
Thanks Brian!
@@SamsTrains you're welcome Sam's trains
You are incorrect to say that Evening Star was the only 9F to be assigned for hauling passenger trains. Once it was realised how well and fast they ran, despite the small driving wheels, they were often used on the Somerset and Dorset to haul passenger trains. They were also used on 'Holiday Specials' in the North East and Western regions.
92079 became the Lickey Banker, acquiring Big Bertha's headlight. An interesting feature of the 9Fs is that the centre pair of driving wheels have no flanges.
The paradox being, I suppose, that BR had perfected the steam locomotive by the time they got to the Standards, and especially the Britannias and the 9F, some of which had very short working lives because the end of steam had arrived; they were replaced by various classes of diesels, many of which had even shorter lives because they were, for want of a better word, problematic... (Yes, class 37 and 47 excluded).
Hi sam bachman did and are re releasing the Standard class 4 mougle 2-6-0 i have the model 76079 as preserved at the NYMR
Hi Sam
I have a version of the 4MT 2 6 0 and it was produced by Bachmann over a decade ago. nicely detailed model though no tender pickups and the mech isnt that great a typical Bachmann mech for the time.
Yeah I'd love to see a BR standard 3MT tender engine and I would like to see Bachmann redo the others as the mechs are quite poor on them.
great video Sam :)
Hi Sam...the standard class 5 was with us to the end in 1968 - rhe claas wasn't withdrawn by 1957.
Having just splashed out on a Titfield Thunderbolt pack from Hattons and of course a 1500 could not go for the Class 2. However we have a collection of bits for 2 in 5" gauge. Also a Britannia which was an impulse buy in bits at an auction. We visited the Southampton Model Show on Sunday and stood next to a very YOUNG guy had "ITS BLUD AND CUS TARD!!" enthusiastically blasted among the faithful. David and Lily.
Lovely video Sam 😎👍
Could do a similar video on the Modernisation Plan pilot scheme diesels
A great summary of both the models and (frankly) ridiculous real history of the standards.
I model much later in history and diesels / electrics, but I do like some of these designs.
Always liked the Black / Standard 5s but the 9F is my favourite design here.
IMHO it’s not a type that we i😊n n gauge have a great model of, owning to a slightly questionable mechanism choice from Dapol.
Hope you are well, best.
Personally, a new Duke model, one as built or one with her preserved mods, would be my pick for a retooling. Thank you for the nice list you've made.
I do like the 9Fs, though I think I have to give it to the 4MT 4-6-0. I got a model of it over a year ago, and I just love it to pieces.
Also, the Duke of Gloucester being a one-off with a 100% survival rate is the definition of hilarity.
I recently read that they have finally made Duke run a lot better and cleaner and its tractive effort is now more than a Coronation. This would make it the most powerful steam loco on Britains tracks.
great video, my favourite is evening star
The standard 3 tender locomotive needs to be modelled. Never been done and the only one of the standards not done.
I would love to have the standard 4 tank re-tooled, my favourite standard locomotive. Dad and I rode behind a pair of them from Southend to London and back in the late 90s.
Along with the standard 4 2-6-0 and standard 5.
Sorry realised that this got added to another comment rather than a comment.
Couple of bits of info to help with your railway knowledge.
BR mk1 coaches had a few different liveries. Initially they were blood and custard which largely tied in with the early crest period. During late crest they generally were maroon, however some regions were allowed exceptions such as choc and cream for the western region and southern were able to have green both of which became very widespread.
The western region also painted a lot more engines green during this period even though that was strictly reserved for passenger only types they applied it much more widely as per the old GWR. The midland region painted a few of the coronations into maroon to match the coaches and I think a couple of other types as well harking back to LMS days. The eastern region and to a lesser extent Scottish region were much more disciplined during this time, depot embellishments aside.
We also won’t have to wait too long for the next clan class to be built! Google 72010 and enjoy a nice positive read :)
Thanks for the videos as always
Only 2 Standards exist in Thomas: rejected character Barry was thought to be a tendered 2, but recent discovery shows he was actually to be an Ivatt tank - the same as Arthur. So that leaves Murdoch an orange 9F from Season 7, and Belle a 4 tank from early CGI, though her water cannons and firefighter status leave her less used as a typical engine. Very few big tanks in the series, hence I'm trying an OC of a G16.
Brilliant video really enjoy it👍😊🤩😎😁
The hornby dublo class 4 tank has plenty of pulling power and dont forget triang made a class 3 tank too.
I actually just got a Standard 4 tank engine as a great bargain from Hattons. Lively runner too!