The 2 best economic thinkers of our time in 1 segment. You would NEVER see this on the mainstream news. The reason their ideas are so "dangerous" is because they make so much sense and they're so intuitive that they spread like wildfire when people hear them. This is what they REALLY mean by "dangerous ideas". But anyway, so great to see these 2 intellectual super heavyweights on one segment together. I have to say, "my brain is in recovery mode after hearing so many great ideas" rofl
Did anyone notice that Michael Hudson corrected Richard Wolff regarding the GOVT debt and the GOVT creation of money? After that, Wolff started saying what Michael was pressing all along. I am not trying to hate on anyone. Both are great, but as I have suspected for a long time, the absolute best economist in the world right now is indeed Michael Hudson.
I love Steve Keen's work. As a matter of fact, you will find this very interesting, it was reading both of their work that I came to conclusion, and especially "Super Imperialism" by Hudson, and then, the one that killed it - "Killing the Host"... That cemented Hudson stature now. I also read "Trade, Development and Foreign Debt "... and, that also adds a depth of Economic History that no other economist has. That's right, as an economist historian, he is a superior professional. So, all those attributes and works, set him apart.
NIA no augment from me on anything you're saying. Hudson always references Keen and Bill Black as those on same page as him so I figured it was worth mentioning Keen (who has a big presence on youtube) I'm always impressed how quickly he can go from ancient babylon to Alan Greenspan a in single statement and do it with a chuckle. I just saw you comments on different video with Ha-Joon Chang so you're really aware what's going on. Recently I've listening to quite a bit of David Graeber. What are your thoughts on him?
I am glad David G and Mark Blyth are getting a lot more exposure. They are the voices who are complementing the sane and intelligent and well prepared who are not paid to carry out an agenda for the elite and justify neoliberalism because money says so. Graeber has the added plus that he is a hardcore activist. That speaks volume. That is one reason why I hold Noam Chomsky as the top of everyone else. He is an intellectual titan but has a honorable and proven record as an activist and even managing to get himself on the list of America's most dangerous enemies ( according to the president at that time). So David got his battle stripes well earned and that is very heavy. He is feared by the opposition because of that
Brilliant observations. Especially the part about this being a new stage not foreseen by theorists of old. Except maybe for Jefferson's comment about what would happen if banks were to gain control. End the Fed.
@jackjillsean It does not quite work that way in practise. Yes, corporate welfare has gotten out of control, that is where checks and balances should have come into play. However, this is not the case in many other nations. What is needed is REFORM, a return to the rule of law, which is simply not happening these days. The system was working during the 50s, 60s, and 70s, with some flaws, but nothing that could not be ironed out. Without government, there is no such thing as a free market.
@jackjillsean The entrepeneur who keeps his or her money in their business does not get taxed on that money. It is only when they pay themesleves huge paycheques that they find themselves slugged 91%. Taxing them so high limits the amount they can pay themselves, and so keeps the money in the business and forces them to actually hire people and make things.
Seem to recall George Carlin's suggesting that if we set up a national teevee show where we catapulted indicted & convicted banksters into a big brick wall, we'd see a 'sharp correction' in the attitudes and activities of the financial sector. In the French Rev, folks took to wearing little guillotines around their necks, as opposed to crucifixes. Highlighting that all this stuff comes down to that oldest question in the book: fight or flight (and there's no percentage in 'flight').
@loren1283 The rich do not make there money all by themselves. They make it either by the work of others, or by inheritance. What taxes do is equalize work, and makes for a better overall republic, someplace that is a wonderful place to live for all.
why we need an interstellar economies infinet room to grow and room for greed ... stop the wars invest more into companies like space x.. make mining in space more profitable then war.....no more wars on mankind.....
@dangermous1968 No more Mars explorer, but PLENTY of new stealth bombers. The military industrial complex will keep on going long after the American government crumbles.
Why isn't money that is created from keystrokes (ie: bank debt) differentiated in debt terms from other types of debt such as actual money that is lent by private funds which if not paid back will create real harm in terms of loss to the lender because it pre-existed the loan made as money owned by the lender? whereas bank created debt doesn't pre -exist at all. In fact the loan creates the deposit not the other way round.
Fast forward to 2017 and the public debt has passed $20 trillion. As the Federal Reserve raises interest rates to respond to the threat of inflation (even though a main driver of inflation, rising land prices, is not counted in the formal calculation of inflation) the cost to service the debt climbs. The Fed cannot continue to make loans to the U.S. government by exchanging Federal Reserve Note balances for government bonds without moving the economy closer and closer to hyperinflation. It is worth noting that what John Maynard Keynes actually argued for is for government to impose high taxes during periods of growth to accumulate a reserve that could be drawn upon to stimulate the economy during the early stage of recession. In this sense, so-called Keynesians have abandoned a central principle of Keynesian economic policy.
@deshaebeasley we have a very low top tax rate, weed have to raise that rate by a lot before moving to another country becomes favorable. but yeah, warren buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary. hees said the tax system in the usa is broken, and that he should pay more.
Do Keynesian theorists really believe the politicians should have control of the expansion/contraction of the money supply? Politicians live in a strange parallel universe were things they do in the short term do not have consequences in the long term. This is not the same universe the rest of us have to live in. Keynesians need to find a solution to the political problem or throw Keynesian economics out the window CAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK IN ITS CURRENT FORM.
@dangerouslytalented Inflation, beginning in the late '60s, and the "oil shock" in the early '70s (the USA created OPEC), made life unbearable & ruined my family. I watched them broken, their health decline. Beginning adulthood in the mid-70s for me in the Rust Belt was so dismal, only listening to "Frankie Teardrop" by Suicide can give you an idea of the ambiance. "No Future," a punk saying, summed it up. By the '80s, I saw TV ads warning us of crushing debt. I listened. I left.
These ultrawealthy have to be taxed more, a LOT more. If the loopholes for offshoring and other things are closed, and loopholes that encourage employment remain, then the employers will try to get out of paying that tax by employing people, and the economy will recover.
Thank You Michael Hudson! "The one identity left out of identity politics is people who actually need to work for a living"
Two greats on one panel! Half of usa economic knowledge at one table.
Very educational. These guys both really think outside the box and tell it like it is.
totally! awesome
Loved the end of this..wish i could have listened to them go back and forth for hours long.
2 of the best economists you'll never see on corporate propaganda media
The 2 best economic thinkers of our time in 1 segment. You would NEVER see this on the mainstream news. The reason their ideas are so "dangerous" is because they make so much sense and they're so intuitive that they spread like wildfire when people hear them. This is what they REALLY mean by "dangerous ideas". But anyway, so great to see these 2 intellectual super heavyweights on one segment together.
I have to say, "my brain is in recovery mode after hearing so many great ideas" rofl
Down with the rentiers!
Did anyone notice that Michael Hudson corrected Richard Wolff regarding the GOVT debt and the GOVT creation of money? After that, Wolff started saying what Michael was pressing all along. I am not trying to hate on anyone. Both are great, but as I have suspected for a long time, the absolute best economist in the world right now is indeed Michael Hudson.
NIA, I agree but also check out Steve Keen. He Hudson's equal but way more of a numbers guy. (I learned about him via Hudson from different talk).
I love Steve Keen's work. As a matter of fact, you will find this very interesting, it was reading both of their work that I came to conclusion, and especially "Super Imperialism" by Hudson, and then, the one that killed it - "Killing the Host"... That cemented Hudson stature now. I also read "Trade, Development and Foreign Debt "... and, that also adds a depth of Economic History that no other economist has. That's right, as an economist historian, he is a superior professional. So, all those attributes and works, set him apart.
NIA no augment from me on anything you're saying. Hudson always references Keen and Bill Black as those on same page as him so I figured it was worth mentioning Keen (who has a big presence on youtube) I'm always impressed how quickly he can go from ancient babylon to Alan Greenspan a in single statement and do it with a chuckle. I just saw you comments on different video with Ha-Joon Chang so you're really aware what's going on. Recently I've listening to quite a bit of David Graeber. What are your thoughts on him?
I am glad David G and Mark Blyth are getting a lot more exposure. They are the voices who are complementing the sane and intelligent and well prepared who are not paid to carry out an agenda for the elite and justify neoliberalism because money says so.
Graeber has the added plus that he is a hardcore activist. That speaks volume. That is one reason why I hold Noam Chomsky as the top of everyone else. He is an intellectual titan but has a honorable and proven record as an activist and even managing to get himself on the list of America's most dangerous enemies ( according to the president at that time).
So David got his battle stripes well earned and that is very heavy. He is feared by the opposition because of that
NIA Mac never heard of Mark Blyth, thanks for the suggestion about to listen to some of his talks.
2 of my favorite intellectuals
no doubt, two giants... first time I saw them together, awesome
Hudson gave Wolff a 'thumbs up,' I can now trust in Wolff. Dr. Hudson is a genius......a good genius.
Good debate, thanks again TRNN.
Brilliant observations. Especially the part about this being a new stage not foreseen by theorists of old. Except maybe for Jefferson's comment about what would happen if banks were to gain control.
End the Fed.
Amazing.
@jackjillsean It does not quite work that way in practise. Yes, corporate welfare has gotten out of control, that is where checks and balances should have come into play. However, this is not the case in many other nations. What is needed is REFORM, a return to the rule of law, which is simply not happening these days. The system was working during the 50s, 60s, and 70s, with some flaws, but nothing that could not be ironed out.
Without government, there is no such thing as a free market.
Neither a borrower nor lender be.
@jackjillsean The entrepeneur who keeps his or her money in their business does not get taxed on that money. It is only when they pay themesleves huge paycheques that they find themselves slugged 91%. Taxing them so high limits the amount they can pay themselves, and so keeps the money in the business and forces them to actually hire people and make things.
the picture quality of this video was excellent.
Seem to recall George Carlin's suggesting that if we set up a national teevee show where we catapulted indicted & convicted banksters into a big brick wall, we'd see a 'sharp correction' in the attitudes and activities of the financial sector.
In the French Rev, folks took to wearing little guillotines around their necks, as opposed to crucifixes. Highlighting that all this stuff comes down to that oldest question in the book: fight or flight (and there's no percentage in 'flight').
@loren1283 The rich do not make there money all by themselves. They make it either by the work of others, or by inheritance. What taxes do is equalize work, and makes for a better overall republic, someplace that is a wonderful place to live for all.
why we need an interstellar economies infinet room to grow and room for greed ... stop the wars invest more into companies like space x.. make mining in space more profitable then war.....no more wars on mankind.....
The same rubbish is still going down in 2018.
@jackjillsean ....He said 90 percent on every dollar earned above 100K.
@dangermous1968 No more Mars explorer, but PLENTY of new stealth bombers. The military industrial complex will keep on going long after the American government crumbles.
Why isn't money that is created from keystrokes (ie: bank debt) differentiated in debt terms from other types of debt such as actual money that is lent by private funds which if not paid back will create real harm in terms of loss to the lender because it pre-existed the loan made as money owned by the lender? whereas bank created debt doesn't pre -exist at all. In fact the loan creates the deposit not the other way round.
I can't stand when people say "keen-sian." It's "Keynsian" like "cain"
Hudson rips apart Wolff's worldview at the end. that was great
Fast forward to 2017 and the public debt has passed $20 trillion. As the Federal Reserve raises interest rates to respond to the threat of inflation (even though a main driver of inflation, rising land prices, is not counted in the formal calculation of inflation) the cost to service the debt climbs. The Fed cannot continue to make loans to the U.S. government by exchanging Federal Reserve Note balances for government bonds without moving the economy closer and closer to hyperinflation.
It is worth noting that what John Maynard Keynes actually argued for is for government to impose high taxes during periods of growth to accumulate a reserve that could be drawn upon to stimulate the economy during the early stage of recession. In this sense, so-called Keynesians have abandoned a central principle of Keynesian economic policy.
Too bad the debate stopped. I think Michael's last point was very interesting and I would love to see a marxist respond to that.
Jesse Frederik Hudson is a Marxist
@deshaebeasley we have a very low top tax rate, weed have to raise that rate by a lot before moving to another country becomes favorable. but yeah, warren buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary. hees said the tax system in the usa is broken, and that he should pay more.
@WilhelmDrake Whos says having "money power" in the hands of anyone is necessary?
HOWEVER politicians SHOULD NEVER be in control of the money supply.
13:00
@jackjillsean So weak, incredibly weak.
Do Keynesian theorists really believe the politicians should have control of the expansion/contraction of the money supply?
Politicians live in a strange parallel universe were things they do in the short term do not have consequences in the long term. This is not the same universe the rest of us have to live in. Keynesians need to find a solution to the political problem or throw Keynesian economics out the window CAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK IN ITS CURRENT FORM.
@dangerouslytalented Inflation, beginning in the late '60s, and the "oil shock" in the early '70s (the USA created OPEC), made life unbearable & ruined my family. I watched them broken, their health decline. Beginning adulthood in the mid-70s for me in the Rust Belt was so dismal, only listening to "Frankie Teardrop" by Suicide can give you an idea of the ambiance. "No Future," a punk saying, summed it up. By the '80s, I saw TV ads warning us of crushing debt. I listened. I left.
These ultrawealthy have to be taxed more, a LOT more. If the loopholes for offshoring and other things are closed, and loopholes that encourage employment remain, then the employers will try to get out of paying that tax by employing people, and the economy will recover.