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4:05 I thought Epimenedies lost Arval in that opening scene of the war of heroes. We see the bubbles water and darkness, and we also saw a Nabatean destory the mountain thing behind the Agarthans. Maybe that was the lab! Arval was probably deep underground since the little bit of room we see from their perspective when the bubbly water tank tube busted open has the same aesthic as Shambala
I love how Arval introduces themselves to Shez talking similar to Sothis in an "all mighty" style before getting tired to the stick and choosing to talk normally from that point onwards. To me, that says a ton of their character.
I think the idea is he talks like shez specifically. He starts talking like epimenedes but adjust since he only ever talks to Shez. But byleth barley responds to sothis with short replies. Also interesting that byleth is the rock and soothes is emotional but it’s backwards for shez
@@gabriellehenley7914 I can't wait until we get the Hegemon edition where Edelgard somehow hijacks the darkness of Zahras and turns it into a distortion world.
I really like Epimentides as an new antagonist for Three House's lore but I really wished he gotten a little more backstory on who he was before he became a part of Arval and how Arval came to be. Hopefully there will be a DLC that'll explain more of Epimentides and Arval in the future as I think they're the most interesting characters that came out of Three Hopes.
It’s mentioned throughout the game and I believe in Shez and Ashe’s supports that Shez was born in Ordelia territory, suspiciously close to wouldn’t you guess it-Shambhala. I’m pretty certain it’s no coincidence that they chose southeastern Leicester of all the places they could have picked for Shez’s origin.
It's astounding to me that, after 2 several hundred hour long games, 7 different paths (10 if you want to count ally or fight Byleth), encyclopedias worth of dialogue, support convos, cutscenes, etc. and still we know next to nothing concrete about the origins and backstories of Sothis, the Nabateans, Arval/Epimenides, the Agarthans/Slitherers, etc. I mean, we know practically everything about basically every square mile of territory in Fodlan (and it's foreign neighbors), dozens of noble names and legacies, crests and their storied history, wars and revolutions, some of the most fleshed out and fulfilling worldbuilding in any video game universe ever, and even Hapi's eating habits. Yet here we are, left mostly on our own to devices to speculate WTF is an Arval. I know they want to keep some things purposely vague for the sake of lending an air of mystery to these grand players of Fodlan's fate and to give people things to speculate and theorize about, but it's really bordering on the absurd at this point, haha.
So, as we are to fill in the blanks ourselves, it is my headcanon given Epimenides obsession with protecting the world from an "abomination" that is an apparent threat to the "cycles of the world", that the Agarthans act kind of like the Anti-Spiral from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. In that show, the Anti-Spiral sees spiral energy as a threat to all existence, as it represents growth and evolution, and left unchecked, can grow out of control and cause the "Spiral Nemesis", an apocalypse that would end all life. Anti-Spiral represents order and authority, it is itself immensely powerful but is not able to grow and change. It, like the Agarthans, also looks down on the spiral beings with the haughtiness of a lifeform that considers itself superior in every way. So, then, Sothis, the so-called consciousness of the Goddess, comes from a distant star in space (and, possibly time, given some tidbits in her dialogue), and confers her blood to create the Nabateans and rapidly advance the evolution of Fodlan and its people. Her blood leads to the creation of Crests, and her bones lead to the creation of Divine Relics. All of these "blessings" allow the wielder to live longer and do things well beyond their natural limitations. It might be that Epimenides sees these powers as an existential threat to the universe, just like the Anti-Spiral views spiral energy. Just a thought. Again, not a lot to go off of here because everything is kept so vague. But it would be a way for the Agarthans to have a role in protecting the universe, while still obviously being villains because of their inhumane acts to the humans they call beasts. Anyway...go watch TTGL is the main takeaway from this post. And believe in the me that believes in you, ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH!
Honestly after all that World building they better use Fodlan as a setting for at least a couple of main series entries, otherwise what was the point? World building by itself isn't enough to justify time and an effort that could have been spent on the actual plot or building up the characters, it has to connect back to those two things or otherwise it was a complete waste of everyone's time.
@@artisticcannibalism1350 Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a waste of time because I find the world itself so fascinating in of itself. I'll read the little notes around camp, not really expecting anything plot-relevant, but just because they are interesting. But there is no doubt this is a huge missed opportunity. Arval and Sothis are directly on the box cover for Three Hopes, yet never directly interact. The entirety of Sothis's dialogue in Three Hopes could probably fill out 2 minutes, if even that. For a game with 100s of pages of dialogue, it is quite mystifying. You unlock both of them in post-game through renown, which is also hugely disappointing. (I mean, better than Three Houses where Sothis just vanishes for the second half of the game and is not playable at all...but still...) Arval deserves a redemption arc, a chance to defy his fate. And the cutscene where you cut down Epimenides/Arval might have a little tension because you are cutting down an old friend, but it really rings hollow when you don't even really know who Epimenides is and why he is so determined to kill Sothis beyond vague comments about the "cycle of the world" or whatever. We just have no idea what's at stake. And we still really don't know why Shez has Arval in them, and who their mother is. Pretty important stuff to leave omitted. Even Byleth at least got those questions answered in Three Houses. And no, this stuff shouldn't be relegated to a DLC, even if that does happen down the line. They are on the box art. This is main game stuff, essential to understanding the motivations of main characters.
@@SunsetJam Totally, Sothis is really hold back by only talking with Byleth, the few moments she interacts with someone different like in 3 hopes she becomes a lot more interesting.
I really hope we get more information about Shez's mom. I feel like she is a very interesting character that could explain a lot about Shez, Arval and how they became partners in destiny. Let's hope we can get more information through DLC or dialogue in Heroes.
@@sveipr Yeah, every time they talked about her I became more and more interested. I loved Ashe and Hapi's support conversation because they gave more information about her. I even started theorising about her being some kind of hight rank Agarthan or even Anselma. But it the end, there was no clear answer.
@@murkrow0366 yeah I pondered the possibility of Shez’s mum being Patricia/Anselma as her fate is still never outright confirmed in this game despite the amount of times Dimitri asked about it. It would be a cool reveal if that were the case but sadly I don’t think the timeline lines up for that. She’s probably just some Agarthan defector which isn’t as cool but more likely.
I wish epimenides’s had a unique class that used the sword shez can summon, like that’s why they use it. Being a dark mage was kidna lame. Plus would have been cool to give the sword a name
The Shez sword never getting a name is low key one of the most disappointing aspects. It's a game where the hero's relics have names, so this sword felt even more like random nonsense that didn't connect with the plot it wanted to tell.
@Methodius What makes it worse is that there are already a ton of mages in the game as is (and I find the class overall to be pretty weak in this game.) and good luck training them into another class, that's a headache and a half and for what? There's no content left to use them in anyway.
@Methodius Nonono, not missed opportunities, laziness. Let's be sure to use the right word here, friends, this isn't some missed opportunity, its a deliberate cut corner by the executives.
It's funny but the fact that Arval is actually the one who comes to with the strategies that makes Shez actually useful to the 3 lords makes me wonder about the implications of Arval dying in the end. Shez on their own is dumb and a far cry from the tactican that help the lord of choice get as far as they did. So what would happen if that brilliant mind was suddenly lost to them? It's a rather eerie picture when you also consider that Shez isn't all that attached to whatever side they choose and does leave at the end before the war ends no matter what side you choose and even if Byleth survives they also have no attachment to any side either so it's not as the as though they'll pick up the slack.
As someone who completed all of the routes, I can say that Shez doesn't strike me as being dumb. Rather they're someone who is impulsive and took advantage of Arval's powers in dumb ways (like jumping off cliffs). Based on Shez's supports with both Edelgard and Ashe alone, it's clear they had access to an education to rival the average nobility at that point in time as well. But again, Shez is a hotheaded and blunt person, so it's not immediately obvious
@@Kageravager I think the term you're looking for is booksmart. A person who has a formal educatation but lacks the ability to put it into practice. Having an education and using your education are two different things. If they were actually smarter then they wouldn't have been on the bottom rung of a mercenary group before meeting Arval.
@@brightlight8852 My previous argument still stands. Also, Shez was orphaned after the death of their parents and foster mother. Not to mention that they were put out of their village shortly thereafter, upon which they met Berling and got inducted into her mercenary group. Unfortunate life circumstances don't necessarily determine someone's intelligence. At the very least, Shez would have to be tactically intelligent, as in all three paths they're made into a general of whatever faction's army they're supporting.
@@Kageravager But how much of that tactical mind comes from Arval? Heck we can't say how tactical minded Shez is because the game ends right after Arval dies. So we can't say how good or bad Shez is at tactics. All we know is that without Arval Shez dies. Shez's ability to read and write would have made them a boon to the upper class. But was Shez smart enough to realize that?
Grima was created by experimenting with Dragon blood to defy life and create an artificial god, which led to the destruction of Thabes by Duma for their hubris. Makes me wonder if its the same deal with Epimenides, maybe the reason Sothis razed the Agarthans and drove them underground is because he used Nabatean corpses to create immortal life for his people.
If this game does get DLC, I have high hopes they will add a 4th route split right at the point Alois asks you to come to the monastery. Curiously, there is a menu of choices to go to the Monastery, but the list only has 1 option. I find this menu to be very weird because it's really the only place in the entire game where the game asks you something and it only presents one choice - the rest present 2 or 3 choices instead. It's ripe for adding a second option at a later time. Considering DLC for Warriors games add new characters, it's hard to imagine new characters for the other 3 houses. They pretty much added everyone in the base game already - Alois, Judith and maybe one or two others excluded. It would make more sense for them to add Thales, Kronya, Solon, Nemesis, etc. instead. What I find most plausible about this is that they have already added all of the pref weapons for these characters in the game already. I'm not sure what kind of dlc they could add otherwise. Epilogues and a better post-game perhaps? Maybe, but that would be awkward given how the route structure works with the save files. I think adding a 4th Agarthan route would be a nice mirror to Three Houses church route, given who the main character is and their connection to Arval.
To be fair, what exactly would a second option there be? "Try me"? I mean, yeah, it could be a funny memeroute where you fight literally everyone to the death, but I don't see where it could lead. A more logical splitting point would be if Shez simply denies the insistance to join a class, because what are they going to do except negotiate his silence at that point? If they want to sell a larger amount of content at that point, there could be a second subsplit "Join the church or get out", and then a few chapters later, it could be "Go solo in the war as an actual merc or join the evil dubstep magicians". Basically just doubling the amount of routes available in the game.
@@lpfan4491 If they did not go to the monastery, Shez would never find out about Kronya and the kidnapping of Monica, which would mean the well has not been poisoned yet. An alternate series of events would happen instead, where they look for Byleth and Jeralt instead of going to the Monastery. By doing this, they could run into Solon or whatever, and that's how the route could start. Since we know Solon leaves the monastery often, this makes a lot of sense. Nobody can deny the uniqueness of this route. It could answer so many unanswered questions in both games, and playing as the Agarthans would be extremely interesting. You could still add the Arval vs Sothis conflict and learn more about Shez's mother too. The route could literally do everything. I can't imagine a better 4th route.
@@Katie-hb8iq My reasoning is that there really is no way to get out of going to the monestary without declaring aggression against the order of knights. And very little actually changes if Shez simply leaves soon after they arrive, because the whole Monica-thing only happens weeks after choosing a house, so they'd miss it if they never become a student.
@@nuibaba280 You really think the Knights are going slay the merc who saved their students if she doesn't want to get paid and is happy to go on their way? The downside of going to the monastery is that it wastes time and makes it difficult to track Byleth and Jeralt. Of course it can happen at the house selection, but there is a better opportunity to excuse yourself before this that the game honestly leaves open. If they did try to apply force, it would honestly give more justification to join the Agarthans later since that is pretty evil by the choice to not let someone who helped you go freely where they want
@@avej99 You get used to it playing Koei's Dynasty Warriors. Better than Capcom's Dynasty Wars, where you only play as 1 of the 3 sides, so you have no time feel attached to the officers of the opposing armies.
I remember being excited of the potential interactions Arval could have with Byleth/Sothis, but they didn't really do anything with it. Also something I don't understand is, if Arval/Epimenides die in the recruited Byleth route, then why do Shez still have their powers afterwards? Was it transferred to the sword?
Considering that Shez and Arval/Epimenides are basically soulmates in a literal sense, i’m not surprised that with the death of one, their power goes to the other.
Epimenides is a prime example of a villain with redeemable qualities. Yes, he cares about his people and wants to save the world.... But his idea involves either genociding or subjugating the "wretched spawn" of Sothis, which is a term Agarthans use to describe surface-dwelling humans. They and Epimenides view everyone who isn't Agarthan as subhuman.
@Methodius To be fair with the game, it makes sense that this route doesn't exist. If we assume Nemesis needed the entire timeframe of Three Houses to awaken, then he is three years too early. Presumably, the agarthans also had additional research from the blood the death knight got them(Which never happens in hopes) and their continued infiltration of the continent(Which is also off the map, since they were forced to temporarily retreat), so that also works against this.
I enjoyed their inclusion but I do wish we got to see more. I enjoy the idea of a "man-made god/man-made god killing weapon." I like how Ephimendes (someday I'll spell his name right lmao) contrasts Thales with both being cold and calculating but they, unlike Thales, who was willing to destroy their home and everyone in it to win, cared for their people. I hope the dlc we get lets us see more about Shez, Arval, and Ephimendes.
How much practise did it take for you to consistently say 'Epimenides' without falling over yourself? I can legit picture Shez and Claude trolling them by purposely getting their name wrong: "We meet again, Epinephrine! Oh look, it's Epidemic! Gotcha that time, Endorphin! Take it down the street, Epipen!" " *_S T O P ._* "
Man I really hope Arval and shez get added to feh and get some convos in forging bonds. Maybe arval and sothis can meet and have the long awaited conversation
@@nickcalderon2637 They are certainly interesting in the way they contrast one another: where Byleth is emotionally muted, Shez is expressive; where Byleth is wise, Shez is unaware; Byleth's growth is centered around their growth as a person, Shez's growth is based around finding a goal/surpassing your limits. It is a shame we only got 3 supports (counting Jeralt's A rank since it focuses more on Byleth than their father) + paralogue that build on their dynamic, but there is something there. Plus expedition dialogue choices that feed into their dynamic.
I’m honestly disappointed in the fact that people are hoping for DLC’s to answer these questions, when they SHOULD’VE BEEN ANSWERED IN THE MAIN GAME!!!
Yeah. This game really wasn’t good. I’m sure it will either get a lot of dlc, or retconed and never talked about again. Ah well, Bayo 3 will probably stomp it and it will get retconed.
I get the destinct feeling that Three Hopes will only get rated interms of gameplay in the future. Sorta like how FEW has been for years where the factor of "lol, the story is horrible, I know that" is so obvious and beaten into the ground in the FE-zeitgeist that people only talk about the positives and negatives interms of everything else.
i believe that is the point lol you can get mad at it being dlc but at the same time you rather they just fix the mistake then leave the plot hole there hanging which honestly hurts the thing more then the dlc would.
@@LunaPPK I rather they don't leave their Game on Cliffhangers and then resolve it with DLCs. So no, I don't want them to fix it with DLCs. I want them to leave it as a Cliffhanger and use their DLC for quite literally anything else if they truly "Don't want to Undermine Three Houses".
@@nickcalderon2637 Which means we are left with the cliffhanger forever and they don't care because the game sold well regardless. I am just as much against the practice as you, but it is so deeply hooked into the medium at this point that all the anti-dlc completion stance does is hurt the fans.
Honestly still annoyed at the game only killing a playable character on AG when you choose to defeat byleth. I assumed you’d lose Monica and Holst in the other routes as they are also newly playable and fill the same roles, as a guide their leaders. Randolph literally dies in every route in three houses on top of having absolutely no meaningful connections to any playable characters (he has no relationship with Caspar despite being distantly related). Killing Monica would be devastating since edlegard went out of her way to save her. If I saw the post friend death cutscene on SB I would have laughed out loud at the idea of anyone having significant feelings about it, especially since shez says they’re relatively used to aquatints dying. GW Judith dying is good choice but she should have been playable (honestly I think they should have taken Shamir out of GW starting roster, since she doesn’t support with anyone naturally on the route, and had Judith instead, it’s almost weird they made any knights/faculty playable since it’s literally only 4 or 5 of them and all but Shamir are route locked
Edelgard didn't go out of her way to save Monica through she simple took advantage of the opportunity Shez made. She even says herself that she was more then willing to leave Monica to her fate as seen in 3 houses
Arval is great. They're like your genius little sibling that gets jealous when you spend too much time with Byleth. Jokes aside, a really charming but bittersweet inclusion to the cast. They couldn't escape from a deeply programmed purpose though, no matter how much they cared.
I never thought about how Solon was hinting towards this in 3 Houses. Kind of interesting foreshadowing when you look back at it, makes you think Arval is something that actually fits into the lore, and not a forced OC inclusion
@@magnolyan After Byleth merges with Sothis in 3 Houses (chapter 10 I believe), solon mentions something about a mysterious being. Which could have been forshadowing Arval like they were planned in the first place It was pretty vague. But looking back to that cutscene with all the info we have on Arval definitely could lead to people connecting the 2
I think arval was enjoying life with shez and learning as a new being but was being held back by the original being vestiges. It didn't knew or was capable of understanding why it hated so much soths. Howeve it still was a huge influence, maybe that lack of feelings came from the original(We see argathans do not care much about each other, like in 3houses fake monica was left to die or how they never fought as a unity.
I liked Arval, and the idea of his existence/lore. I just feel like this game kind of missed the point of the Fodland stories with it though. It seemed like Sothis and Byleth were spiritually extremely significant and thematically relevant to the restoration of Fodland, but this time around they kinda just left it to the side. Also would have liked an explanation on Arval's sword even slightly. I've only played AG so far though.
It's also pretty bad that the game all but says Sothis has regained all her memories but she has zero interaction with her surviving children definitely on the paths you kill them.
What they do to Sothis bugs me to no end. It's a repeat of Gaiden almost; "we're better off without gods because we don't have any expectations on us but are also no longer coddled", except that you're completely pathetic compared to your neighbors and set to decline into abject irrelevancy without the magical oversight. Does Fodlan deserve Sothis? I guess not, hence they got Blyat (sorry, Byleth) instead, and muddled dialogue on whether or not there's an afterlife or what the heck Sothis is/was doing while unconscious.
In a game that had potential but wasted a lot of it, Arval is the epitome of a new character that had potential but the plot wasted a lot of it. And it's a shame. I really liked Arval design. Their voice actor added some charming personality. They had a great chemistry with Shez too.
All because Nintendo is falling to it's delusional greedy ways again. They dont wanna make SOME MONEY and TAKE THEIR TIME on anything but the most largely anticipated projects, and even then I bet the creators of the Zelda and Splatoon titles have to really twist the greedy executives' arms on it. They just wanna cut corners and make every penny ever...
@Methodius That practise needs to die. If it's that important put it in the base game. Then again if it does happen I'll end up buying it so I'm the sucker at the end of the day.
still hoping we get all three hopes exclusives in heroes. i dont think arval would be a mythic but at least a legendary. we could also get “fallen” versions of shez and byleth where they’re vessels to arval and sothis. not exactly evil versions but still out for the other.
I love Arval and wish to see more of them in any DLC etc. And i just feel… sad for Arval in that ending, especially with that look Arval gives before their last words. Like Shez reaching out to them is being sadly refused.
I was disappointed with the secret route. To me it felt like it just ended right as it begun. Not helping matters is that after that event (I was on Scarlet Blaze when I did this) no one really acknowledges it except Edelgard, Hubert, Byleth. I felt that right when you recruit Byleth thats when the secret route begins and that it would take up the rest of the route and have all three groups team up to take on Epimenides. And that maybe we could’ve had a Sothis vs Epimenides fight and have the characters wondering what the hell is going on. There could’ve a moment where Arval goes against Epimenides’ wishes and sacrifice himself in order to save Shez. I felt this is what the secret route needed in order to be worth playing instead of just having 2 chapters and having it immediately go back to the status quo. It also would’ve given Arval a much bigger payoff.
The biggest question I still have about Epimenides is why does he believe so adamantly that Sothis and her "spawn" will bring destruction to the world. He refers to Sothis as an "Abomination" In his paralogue which suggests that he considers her to be unnatural or simply disgusting. It makes me wonder why he feels that way about her and how Sothis arrived in Fodlan in the first place.
Seiros tells us that Sothis originally lives in space far away to visit Fodlan on occasion and the Agarthans namely Solon keeps calling her a fell star. I assume it's something like a fallen angel situation and she ended up just stuck perhaps. That's all I remember really being said about Sothis' origins.
Bear in mind that I actually view the Agarthans and TWSITD as the antiheroes of the story, so my view is somewhat biased, but from the lore I've read, Sothis isn't so much a goddess as a superpowered alien dragon who landed in Fodlan and got the local yokels to start worshipping her as a goddess. She was also able to reproduce asexually and created a race of green haired alien lizards disguised as humans, the Nabateans. The Agarthans, an intelligent, science minded nation, were obviously alarmed at this invasive and manipulative alien species and tried to destroy them. The lizards virtually wiped them out in return. A few survived in underground bunkers and evolved into TWSITD.
I loved Shez's non-binary partner in destiny. They're snarky and playful, and they genuinely care for Shez in the end. They really matched and even, because of their prolonged presence through this game, surpassed Sothis' funny sass in 3 Houses. I need content about the Agarthans even more than I did before.
Still would prefer that Arval be a more unique character. Don't know about anyone else but I think Sothis did the whole "Powerful being inside a normal person's head" thing better.
I wish there would have been a better choice in the Sothis vs Arval conflict, if Arval and Sothis can't coexist with one another then don't make the secret ending with the best rewards lock you into one side of the conflict!
Something to add. There's very brief mentions in houses of "old gods" that were worshipped before the arrival of sothis. Going into hopes, my assumption was that arval was meant to be one of those "old gods." But then the introduction of epimenides kinda makes it more complicated. We know that arval was created to oppose the nabateans. But then I ask myself. Is arval meant to copy an old god? Or was arval the god that was worshipped by the people in fodlan (pre nabatean landing)?
You know, I have a sort of theory about what Arval is. I believe, using their magitech, Epimenides somehow managed to take some portion of the darkness from within Zahras and merge a portion of his own consciousness within it. This ultimately resulted in the creation of Arval. Believing that Sothis was far too powerful of a foe to best on their own, Epimenides sought to create an entity from Zahras who can grow in power and combat Sothis. We even see a glimpse of it with each recurring fight against Byleth. Shez was utterly crushed by Byleth the first time, yet in the span of 2.5 years, Shez managed to go toe to toe with Byleth and nearly best them before Sothis took over. Yet even then, the next time they fought, Shez still showed strength and skill to keep up with Byleth. And finally, even when Byleth gave themselves over to Sothis, Shez was not only able to face Sothis in even combat, but was able to even react perfectly to Sothis's Divine Pulse, warping out of the attack in a split second. The fact that Shez could actually kill Sothis shows that Arval's power grew tremendously, along with Shez's skill in using that power. Arval may not be a true Agarthan deity as we had once theorized, but Arval very much ended up proving themselves to have power that can genuinely combat that of Sothis at the end.
Not Acually.. in Route Byleth was Killed. 1: Byleth and Jeralt lacks A Weapon as Powerful as the weapon Shez can summon any time 2: Byleth and Sothis I'm not sync with each other 3: Plot 4: Sothis Took over but again She is not use to byleth and Byleth pretty much just gave up and no longer cared after Jeralt Died 5: No Sword of the Creator Keep in mind there's so many circumstances .. even unrealistic circumstances that allow Shez To Be on par With Byleth If you look in the true ending of each route Wheb Byleth and Shez had conversation after Arval incident.. Byleth Admitted They Held back despite Arval possessed Shez trying to kill them. Another instance is there support conversation Where Shez Still could not Best Byleth.. but to their credit they were able to keep up with byleth .. but the skill difference becomes extremely noticeable when Shez Pointed out They were Spaming Their Abities, While Byleth Barely Needed To use Divine Pulse.. or maybe we could give it Shez more credit and Was Byleth Simply becoming more familiar with sothis power, While Shez Had 2 Years To work on his.
You aware Sothis is not at full power.. if she were to regain all of her memories she would Regain Her Adult Form and be at 100%.. all that was from an interview
@@elpopman2055 You say all that, yet at the same time, it doesn't change that there's tremendous growth in Arval and Shez each time they clash with Sothis/Byleth. Arval went that there's no way that they can beat Byleth to being certain that they can, and ultimately proven right. We make all the excuses we want about Sothis, but in the end, Sothis arrogantly believed herself to be superior, but when push came to shove, Arval had the power to straight up kill her.
@@0axis771 > We make all the excuses we want about Sothis, but in the end, Sothis arrogantly believed herself to be superior, but when push came to shove, Arval had the power to straight up kill her. Spoken like a true, delusional Agarthan supporter. Yet, despite us "making excuses" here you come making excuses for the most hilariously, blatantly evil faction in the game. A typical day for good old MetalGearRaxis, isn't it? Still answering any argument you can't refute with a Velvet Crowe picture, friend? They did nothing wrong at all, the Nabateans were the real menace all along. I'll never get people like you, that do insane mental gymnastics to justify hating Rhea's people for no reason at all. We are given no reason at all to believe the Agarthans were poor oppressed victims, and no amount of wild headcanons from you, that Edelgard simp that conflates reality with Fodlan on Serene's Forest and legit loves Edelgard as if she was real (imagine the guy likely has a dakimakura of her, lol) or NaberiusBuster on GameFaqs will make it true.
@@0axis771 When push came to shove, Shez and Arval still won against a Sothis controlled Byleth, who weren’t in sync, and thus would NOT have been able to go toe to toe with Shez in that instance. I’m not gonna say Shez and Arval didn’t grow in power tremendously (sometimes being somewhat arbitrary in a CERTAIN Paralogue), but to say that the Fight in the “Kill Byleth” Route’s was an even fight, isn’t the Truth.
I mean they didn’t even end the wars by the end of the game so why would they try to explain Arval anymore than they have to? Really hope Fie Emblem get some better writers for their next games. They can write good characters just not good plots.
Assuming it is the same guys from Three Houses(too lazy to double check), then they got into the series by writing FEW...which is infamous for having a terrible story in a similar way Fates is.
Window-dressing and detail-filling are easy. Making them meaningful is hard. Many shat on Fates more for lacking a continent name than for the story being a mess in Conquest and Revelations, though, so the detail focus will probably continue. I'm amazed no one else has gotten hung up on how the heck Nemesis stole Sothis in the first place, to be honest, you'd think that her tomb would be the most-watched place on the planet.
Let's not pretend that Solon was referencing Epimenides in Three Houses; it's obvious that Sothis is the only being that ought to be able to escape such a spell, and that Solon and the other Agarthans had gravely miscalculated what Byleth was capable of in terms of how she was connected to Sothis.
"I am so surprised that you have escaped the darkness, even tho I could have guessed that you share the same power of your previous incarnation and that person managed to break out." Yeah, I agree with Nuibaba here. It would only serve to make the guy even more silly as a villain.
Except Solon already addresses Byleth as the Fell Star Sothis, meaning he already thinks he knows what her power is capable and assumes they cannot escape Zahras, otherwise, why even bother with the spell in the first place. With that assumption in mind, when he is shocked that Sothis/Byleth can overcome the spell, he begins to refer back to the only OTHER person he knows who can withstand the spell.
I think I may be in the minority here but I just didn't like Arval that much. Perhaps I was just too wary of them from the get go, which prevented me to connect with them in a meaningful way. Personality wise I didn't find them much more interesting than Sothis, because I felt like they were telling Shez what they wanted to hear with a few sassy remarks, as if they were maliciously guiding Shez towards their own personal goals (I know it is meant to signify that that's Epimenides will, even if Arval isn't aware of it, but it contrasts a lot with Sothis, who was more critical but less directive than them). I still remember the first time I played the secret chapter and feeling next to nothing when Epimenides died, leaving Shez to feel sorrowful for them. I know the game pretends for you to feel sad, but I just felt nothing. Perhaps it could have helped to have seen Arval's conflicting emotions after killing Byleth, since I never slayed them on any of my playthroughs. It may have helped me to feel more sympathy over them and separating them of Epimenides more. But I think the biggest flaw they have is how little we know about Shez. I feel like if they had explored Shez's past, it may have helped solidify both Shez's and Arval's inclusion. As it stands right now, Arval is just meh for me.
Arval is like an artificial Sothis... if kid-Sothis were to adult-Sothis (also known as the Sword of the Creator) what Arval was to Epidemnes. The ultimate god-play that probably got everyone killed.
Something that may or may not be coincidence is that if you rearrange the letters in "Arval" you can spell "larva" which is kind of what they are, a lifeform in its early stages of life which hasn't yet matured into its complete form which is Epimenides in this case.
I now know who Arval is, great video btw it was amazing, but now I want to know more about Epimenedes!!! I feel like he had his own agenda separate from the Agarthans, but W H Y?? And who is Shez's mom? She sounds amazing, but it's a shame we never learn anything about her. I had hoped Ashe's letter would reveal anything, given the cliffhanger his supports with Shez ended on, but they told me nothing.
I have an idea as to how the developers could have introduced a benevolent Agarthan in Three Hopes. What if at the beginning of the plot, the factions are at first reluctant to trust this Agarthan, even though they were close friends with Shez’s sergeant mother. Over the course of the story, the benevolent Agarthan begins earning the trust of Shez and the others. This way, we don’t go to Shambhala just yet and Shez isn’t able to learn anything their past. And, if Byleth isn’t recruited, the benevolent Agarthan gets killed by Sothis and that information regarding Shez and Shambhala becomes lost forever.
Byleth says the same thing about Sothis after the sealed forest chapter in Three Houses. So it’s possible Arval isn’t fully dead and is still fused with Shez in some way if the similarity to Byleth is anything to go by.
For the majority of the story, Arval is boring as heck lol. Man pops up at the end of a chapter, says something and is forgotten until the next chapter or major cutscene.
Both Arval and Epimenides represent a much more grey area of the Agarthans that TWSITD sorely needed. Though Epimenides acts in a typical supremist mindset, believing humans like Nemesis and the house lords to be mere beasts, he actually has shown far more care and love towards others. Epimenides apologizes to Solon for sacrificing him to cast Zahras, he admits that it pains him to take Shez and Arval's body, and even laments how he has sacrificed so much during the final conflict with the lords and Shez and wonders why it still wasn't enough. One could even say that Arval feeling joy, sorrow, emptiness, and freedom is also something that Epimenides also shares. Perhaps even Epimenides just wanted this battle to finally end and be free of it all. With how Epimenides talks about Seiros, the saints, and the goddess, Epimenides represents closer to a less evil mindset and opinion about Sothis and the Nabateans. Given how Sothis acted in 3Hopes, we have a better picture that for a not-so-evil Agarthan, the Nabateans are the bad guys in truth and that they will reign destruction and ruination to the world and their people. The Shadow Library depicts a viewpoint of an Agarthan and definitely gives more credence that the Agarthans didn't make the weapons to combat Sothis because they thought of themselves as gods. They were scared humans that wanted a "nuclear deterrent" in hopes of defending themselves.
That's honestly bullshit because Epimenedes, for all the sorrow he expressed at the sacrifices he made, ultimately cared more for the ultimate goal of killing Sothis than his own people, or at least the actual living, breathing humans. They are necessary sacrifices for the nation. He is fundamentally a fascist type who is still very much an Agarthan supremacist and who clearly despises the Children of the Goddess as abominations and blames them for suffering that he and his people started.
@@MrGksarathy You can call it fascist or however you want. But the fact is, even Epimenides expressed a greater range of emotions than any other member of TWSITD ever did. The fact is, Fodlan was originally home to his people before Sothis came and started creating her own race of people on their land. We still are not yet privy to all the details, but with how Sothis acts, she wasn't this supremely benevolent deity that Rhea depicts her as, but rather one that will kill you if you slight her and clearly looks down on others. Against such a powerful being like that, it's no wonder that anyone would be terrified of such a being and consider them some monster.
@@0axis771 Yeah, no, Sothis was the one who also gave the technology that the Agarthans used to create their prosperous civilization, and she and her children seemingly lived among them without incident for quite a while before the Agarthans declared war on her and her children. Also, even in their own telling of events, the Agarthans admit that they earned the displeasure of Sothis for spilling too much blood without any shame whatsoever, implying that they didn't really think there was anything wrong with mass death or warfare. Also, after their initial war ended, it's telling that the survivors, probably the leadership, spent the next few millennia obsessively plotting revenge while the Nabateans basically moved on with their lives and either scattered across the continent or stayed in Zanado, watching over their mother's resting place. Not only that, but no matter what the Children of the Goddess may have done to the Agarthans, nothing justified the absolute genocide the latter perpetrated. In addition, while I also dislike how Sothis acted in Three Hopes, it is somewhat understandable, since she awakened with basically her full memories and thus full knowledge of what the Agarthans did to her and her children. To top that off, a seeming Agarthan descendant has been trying to kill her host, who she actually cares about. No wonder we see her more wrathful side. Normally, she is fairly respectful of the autonomy of others, and while she will take the piss out of anyone and everyone, she doesn't typically try to enforce her will on them. Finally, I don't think the Agarthans had anymore right to the land than the Nabateans did, since although the Agarthans were there first, Sothis never disrespected their claim to living on the land and uplifted them to roughly equal status to her own children. Moreover, her children were very much born in Fódlan, and it's as much their home as it is the home of the Agarthans.
@@MrGksarathy By whose testimony? Rhea's, who has the biggest Sothis bias there ever was. Yes, I can believe that Sothis may have bestowed knowledge to the Agarthans. However, whether their relationship was ever that of equals or companionship, is another thing entirely. The shadow library book admits that the Agarthans fought against one another. That's not that surprising. Humans do that. But that's as far as we can go with the facts. By that point, anything can go. Including whether the Nabateans were by any means oppressive to the Agarthans or pushing their religion onto the Agarthans. nothing was ever to suggest there was any true equality. We have no clue. Rhea claims that the Agarthans saw themselves as gods, but the book and every member of TWSITD never once refer to themselves in such a manner, meaning that this is Rhea's own bias against them. Humans launched the pillars of light to strike at Sothis not because they were arrogant and thought that they were superior, but because they believed that Sothis was going to come to kill them. Given the fact that if Sothis feels slighted, she will not hesitate to kill, it's not out there that Sothis planned to punish the Agarthans, and the Agarthans fought back.
After playing through the game I really wanted to see a clash between the two realms. Wherein Sothis and Epimenides could speak to each other directly, for just a few moments. I'm sure there's quite the option of things the developers could elaborate on with this conversation. Alas, it was not to be. Perhaps in future DLC.
I don't think Arval would bounce off Byleth as well as they do with Shez. But it would be cute to see Arval being supportive toward Byleth's growth as a professor.
I love Arval's beautiful appearance and their character. Before I play this game, I thought they're a heretic deity, but they aren't actually. Although, it's strange that Epimenides looks like a deity. I doubt he is "an ordinary man". Possibly, he was only convinced so by someone. He might be a creator of dark magic...They're literally mysterious.
My own personal theory is that Shez's adopted mother is actually Edelgard's birth mother and Dimitri's step mother Patricia/Anselma. I was actually waiting for a point in Scarlet Blaze or Azure Gleam where they would show a portrait/painting of Edelgard's/Dimitri's mother and have Shez recognize her as their mother. I wonder if after the Tragedy of Duscur, Patricia/Anselma were recruited by Those who Slither, saw that they were experimenting with a child, and decided to betray those who slither and take the child and run. She couldn't have run into the Empire or Kingdom due to her connections to both, so she ran into the Alliance and settled into a rural village where they were left alone until she passed and Shez joined Berling Mercenaries. Of course according to Cornelia and Thales that Anselma/Patricia are dead, but if she vanished from them right after the tragedy of duscur, why wouldn't they think she died?
That literally makes no sense. Anselma doesn't have time to be in a Leicester mountain village, she's a political queen and Shez doesn't fit in the timeline if she raised Shez after her disappearance. She wouldn't care for Shez outside of basic pity either due to how she treated Dimitri. That directly contradicts Shez reaffirming that they had a loving mom when Dimitri reveals Anselma's lack of care for him.
@Methodius Them saying Edelgard killed her mother is a lie, though. When the tragedy of Duscur happened, Edelgard was already back in the Empire while Patricia was still in the Kingdom. Patricia arranged for the tragedy to happen so she could use it as an excuse to flee back to her daughter. Thing is, she died before she could ever make it back to the Empire. Edelgard confirms that she never saw her mother again after leaving the Kingdom and doesn't know what happened to her.
@Methodius In Azure Gleam during Arianrhod, Edelgard claims that Thales was the one who killed her. During the Zaharas chapter if you recruited Byleth, Dimitri asks Edelgard what happened to her mother, and she claims that the last time she saw her was in Faerghas and that Dimitri probably saw her later than Edelgard did. So Those who Slither blame her death on Edelgard, while Edelgard blames her death on those who slither. Either way we don't have a confirmation on what actually happened to her, the general consensus is that she's just dead.
I thought he was a counterpart to sothis, like an ancient dragon of the deep, while sothis comes from the skies, kinda like how fates has the dusk and dawn dragons as parallels and rivals, but instead he is like medeus if he was a human and dragons had won, coming back to life for revenge. In some ways 3 houses/hopes does a reversal on FE tropes, like how the "sacred weapons" are actually cursed and will hurt/take over it's wielder instead of healing them like the falchion would.
... as a side note... I love this game. This game feels unique compared to the old fire emblem heros game... the combat never feels bullshit unfair and the character twists just because they never met byleth are such interesting takes that you get wrapped back into fodlan... even after 12+ runs on maddening in three houses and being utterly burned out on the schooling mechanics
Arval had potential, but was honestly to me my least favourite part of three hopes from a story perspective. I get there reason why, but the constant droning on about killing the Ashen demon and that everything will work out once you kill them got really old really fast. Shez and Arval’s interactions that didn’t involve bringing up the Ashen demon however i did enjoy.
I really wanted to know more about him to arval but they didn’t go into munch in the game I played dimitri story but didn’t get munch information maybe it will be with Claude
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 They wouldn't use it to finish a story. The cliffhanger seems to be intentional. They'll probably use DLC just to expand on Shez's past.
This might sound dumb but… isn’t Arval genderless? I’m pretty sure the game itself only really uses they/them for Arval lol. But it’s been a good bit since I’ve played the game.
It gets pretty bad when the same vague group of people who want FEH to stay out of the mainseries lore want these characters to release there because what we have is relatively lackluster. Yeah, we vaguely understand who these guys are, but less so about why we should care. It's not like the entire thing about Shez and Epimenides is integrated in a way vital to the lore, outside of the very basic "but Arval made the entire game happen tho!", even tho that is moreso incidental and could have been any character if the writers wanted to come up with something else. For all the grief people have with Byleth and Sothis as a plotdevice(Rightfully so btw, I'm not disagreeing with that critisism), it is at least clear why their existance is thematically vital for at least three of the routes to make sense.
Why does Shez and Arval need to be essential to justify their existence? Why can't they just be simple likable characters with potential room for more?
@@nuibaba280 Because an MC that has the most vague impact on their world is really strange, especially when the marketing and the actual lore imply that there should be some deeper significance.
@@lpfan4491 They share the MC spot with the lords. And there has been such a thing as passive supporting main leads. Not everything needs to be forced to be about them.
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4:05 I thought Epimenedies lost Arval in that opening scene of the war of heroes. We see the bubbles water and darkness, and we also saw a Nabatean destory the mountain thing behind the Agarthans. Maybe that was the lab! Arval was probably deep underground since the little bit of room we see from their perspective when the bubbly water tank tube busted open has the same aesthic as Shambala
My dear partner in destiny always working hard! I appreciate you very much!
I love how Arval introduces themselves to Shez talking similar to Sothis in an "all mighty" style before getting tired to the stick and choosing to talk normally from that point onwards. To me, that says a ton of their character.
Yeah. Arval is very funny.
@@nuibaba280 Agreed
“Hear thee hear thee, bruh.”
I think the idea is he talks like shez specifically. He starts talking like epimenedes but adjust since he only ever talks to Shez. But byleth barley responds to sothis with short replies. Also interesting that byleth is the rock and soothes is emotional but it’s backwards for shez
@@nuibaba280 lol, still coping hard I see.
I know many people will have already realized this but I love how Sothis and Arval basically represent time and space.
It's a big classic to oppose these two but always good that far
Just two Pokemon who argue who the sweets in the jar belong to.
Fire Emblem Diamond and Pearl.
So Fire Emblem Three Houses is Diamond while Three Hopes is Pearl?
@@gabriellehenley7914 I can't wait until we get the Hegemon edition where Edelgard somehow hijacks the darkness of Zahras and turns it into a distortion world.
I really like Epimentides as an new antagonist for Three House's lore but I really wished he gotten a little more backstory on who he was before he became a part of Arval and how Arval came to be. Hopefully there will be a DLC that'll explain more of Epimentides and Arval in the future as I think they're the most interesting characters that came out of Three Hopes.
It’s mentioned throughout the game and I believe in Shez and Ashe’s supports that Shez was born in Ordelia territory, suspiciously close to wouldn’t you guess it-Shambhala. I’m pretty certain it’s no coincidence that they chose southeastern Leicester of all the places they could have picked for Shez’s origin.
I wonder if the place Shez was raised at is connected to Balthus's home at all, considering they're both from the mountains in Leicester.
I am wondering if they're going to make the dlc just as they did in the legend of Zelda Age of Calamity .😢😢
So they can answer all the questions we have about Shez and arval.
It's astounding to me that, after 2 several hundred hour long games, 7 different paths (10 if you want to count ally or fight Byleth), encyclopedias worth of dialogue, support convos, cutscenes, etc. and still we know next to nothing concrete about the origins and backstories of Sothis, the Nabateans, Arval/Epimenides, the Agarthans/Slitherers, etc.
I mean, we know practically everything about basically every square mile of territory in Fodlan (and it's foreign neighbors), dozens of noble names and legacies, crests and their storied history, wars and revolutions, some of the most fleshed out and fulfilling worldbuilding in any video game universe ever, and even Hapi's eating habits. Yet here we are, left mostly on our own to devices to speculate WTF is an Arval.
I know they want to keep some things purposely vague for the sake of lending an air of mystery to these grand players of Fodlan's fate and to give people things to speculate and theorize about, but it's really bordering on the absurd at this point, haha.
So, as we are to fill in the blanks ourselves, it is my headcanon given Epimenides obsession with protecting the world from an "abomination" that is an apparent threat to the "cycles of the world", that the Agarthans act kind of like the Anti-Spiral from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
In that show, the Anti-Spiral sees spiral energy as a threat to all existence, as it represents growth and evolution, and left unchecked, can grow out of control and cause the "Spiral Nemesis", an apocalypse that would end all life. Anti-Spiral represents order and authority, it is itself immensely powerful but is not able to grow and change. It, like the Agarthans, also looks down on the spiral beings with the haughtiness of a lifeform that considers itself superior in every way.
So, then, Sothis, the so-called consciousness of the Goddess, comes from a distant star in space (and, possibly time, given some tidbits in her dialogue), and confers her blood to create the Nabateans and rapidly advance the evolution of Fodlan and its people. Her blood leads to the creation of Crests, and her bones lead to the creation of Divine Relics. All of these "blessings" allow the wielder to live longer and do things well beyond their natural limitations.
It might be that Epimenides sees these powers as an existential threat to the universe, just like the Anti-Spiral views spiral energy.
Just a thought. Again, not a lot to go off of here because everything is kept so vague. But it would be a way for the Agarthans to have a role in protecting the universe, while still obviously being villains because of their inhumane acts to the humans they call beasts.
Anyway...go watch TTGL is the main takeaway from this post. And believe in the me that believes in you, ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH!
Honestly after all that World building they better use Fodlan as a setting for at least a couple of main series entries, otherwise what was the point? World building by itself isn't enough to justify time and an effort that could have been spent on the actual plot or building up the characters, it has to connect back to those two things or otherwise it was a complete waste of everyone's time.
@@artisticcannibalism1350 Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a waste of time because I find the world itself so fascinating in of itself. I'll read the little notes around camp, not really expecting anything plot-relevant, but just because they are interesting.
But there is no doubt this is a huge missed opportunity. Arval and Sothis are directly on the box cover for Three Hopes, yet never directly interact. The entirety of Sothis's dialogue in Three Hopes could probably fill out 2 minutes, if even that. For a game with 100s of pages of dialogue, it is quite mystifying.
You unlock both of them in post-game through renown, which is also hugely disappointing. (I mean, better than Three Houses where Sothis just vanishes for the second half of the game and is not playable at all...but still...)
Arval deserves a redemption arc, a chance to defy his fate. And the cutscene where you cut down Epimenides/Arval might have a little tension because you are cutting down an old friend, but it really rings hollow when you don't even really know who Epimenides is and why he is so determined to kill Sothis beyond vague comments about the "cycle of the world" or whatever. We just have no idea what's at stake.
And we still really don't know why Shez has Arval in them, and who their mother is. Pretty important stuff to leave omitted. Even Byleth at least got those questions answered in Three Houses.
And no, this stuff shouldn't be relegated to a DLC, even if that does happen down the line. They are on the box art. This is main game stuff, essential to understanding the motivations of main characters.
@@chaoticcranium
Epimenides:"Hey, so, I sorta hate you guys and Byleth needs to die and I deleted Arval."
Shez:"Literally who are you even!?"
lmao
@@lpfan4491 Haha, that sums it up pretty well!
Arval screams main antagonist for the next Fire Emblem game. Everything about that secret route felt like a Kingdom Hearts bonus boss.
I really like Arval. I felt much more connection between them and Shez then I ever did between Sothis and Byleth.
I wanna say it's because Shez actually speaks. You can only do so much with a silent protagonist. lol
@@SunsetJam Totally, Sothis is really hold back by only talking with Byleth, the few moments she interacts with someone different like in 3 hopes she becomes a lot more interesting.
The fact they talked to each other helped.
You wanna be delusional go right ahead
Not really. You can still have a character as a mute person, you know @@SunsetJam
I really hope we get more information about Shez's mom. I feel like she is a very interesting character that could explain a lot about Shez, Arval and how they became partners in destiny. Let's hope we can get more information through DLC or dialogue in Heroes.
Yea, they brought her up a ton and even hinted that she was something more than meets the eye, but never did anything with it.
@@sveipr Yeah, every time they talked about her I became more and more interested. I loved Ashe and Hapi's support conversation because they gave more information about her. I even started theorising about her being some kind of hight rank Agarthan or even Anselma. But it the end, there was no clear answer.
@@murkrow0366 yeah I pondered the possibility of Shez’s mum being Patricia/Anselma as her fate is still never outright confirmed in this game despite the amount of times Dimitri asked about it. It would be a cool reveal if that were the case but sadly I don’t think the timeline lines up for that. She’s probably just some Agarthan defector which isn’t as cool but more likely.
heroes would be nice.
@@pearsemolloy9656 Thales confirmed they killed her after the Tragedy.
I wish epimenides’s had a unique class that used the sword shez can summon, like that’s why they use it. Being a dark mage was kidna lame. Plus would have been cool to give the sword a name
The Shez sword never getting a name is low key one of the most disappointing aspects. It's a game where the hero's relics have names, so this sword felt even more like random nonsense that didn't connect with the plot it wanted to tell.
@Methodius What makes it worse is that there are already a ton of mages in the game as is (and I find the class overall to be pretty weak in this game.) and good luck training them into another class, that's a headache and a half and for what? There's no content left to use them in anyway.
@Methodius Nonono, not missed opportunities, laziness. Let's be sure to use the right word here, friends, this isn't some missed opportunity, its a deliberate cut corner by the executives.
@Methodius Sure
@@Superluigi881 I don’t find it that annoying, I guess that is your silly opinion
Arval is a dork, a very cute and lovable dork. This video helped me put into words everything I feel about him.
25:53 I was SO upset we never got proper interactions between Sothis and Arval/Epimenides.
It's funny but the fact that Arval is actually the one who comes to with the strategies that makes Shez actually useful to the 3 lords makes me wonder about the implications of Arval dying in the end. Shez on their own is dumb and a far cry from the tactican that help the lord of choice get as far as they did. So what would happen if that brilliant mind was suddenly lost to them? It's a rather eerie picture when you also consider that Shez isn't all that attached to whatever side they choose and does leave at the end before the war ends no matter what side you choose and even if Byleth survives they also have no attachment to any side either so it's not as the as though they'll pick up the slack.
As someone who completed all of the routes, I can say that Shez doesn't strike me as being dumb. Rather they're someone who is impulsive and took advantage of Arval's powers in dumb ways (like jumping off cliffs).
Based on Shez's supports with both Edelgard and Ashe alone, it's clear they had access to an education to rival the average nobility at that point in time as well. But again, Shez is a hotheaded and blunt person, so it's not immediately obvious
@@Kageravager I think the term you're looking for is booksmart. A person who has a formal educatation but lacks the ability to put it into practice. Having an education and using your education are two different things. If they were actually smarter then they wouldn't have been on the bottom rung of a mercenary group before meeting Arval.
@@brightlight8852 My previous argument still stands. Also, Shez was orphaned after the death of their parents and foster mother. Not to mention that they were put out of their village shortly thereafter, upon which they met Berling and got inducted into her mercenary group.
Unfortunate life circumstances don't necessarily determine someone's intelligence. At the very least, Shez would have to be tactically intelligent, as in all three paths they're made into a general of whatever faction's army they're supporting.
@@Kageravager But how much of that tactical mind comes from Arval? Heck we can't say how tactical minded Shez is because the game ends right after Arval dies. So we can't say how good or bad Shez is at tactics. All we know is that without Arval Shez dies.
Shez's ability to read and write would have made them a boon to the upper class. But was Shez smart enough to realize that?
This implies Shez wasn't useful from being a direct combatant that assisting greatly on the front lines.
Grima was created by experimenting with Dragon blood to defy life and create an artificial god, which led to the destruction of Thabes by Duma for their hubris. Makes me wonder if its the same deal with Epimenides, maybe the reason Sothis razed the Agarthans and drove them underground is because he used Nabatean corpses to create immortal life for his people.
That’s a super interesting idea honestly. I think it would make since, given the Agarthans’ technology and MOs in the past
If this game does get DLC, I have high hopes they will add a 4th route split right at the point Alois asks you to come to the monastery. Curiously, there is a menu of choices to go to the Monastery, but the list only has 1 option. I find this menu to be very weird because it's really the only place in the entire game where the game asks you something and it only presents one choice - the rest present 2 or 3 choices instead. It's ripe for adding a second option at a later time.
Considering DLC for Warriors games add new characters, it's hard to imagine new characters for the other 3 houses. They pretty much added everyone in the base game already - Alois, Judith and maybe one or two others excluded. It would make more sense for them to add Thales, Kronya, Solon, Nemesis, etc. instead. What I find most plausible about this is that they have already added all of the pref weapons for these characters in the game already.
I'm not sure what kind of dlc they could add otherwise. Epilogues and a better post-game perhaps? Maybe, but that would be awkward given how the route structure works with the save files. I think adding a 4th Agarthan route would be a nice mirror to Three Houses church route, given who the main character is and their connection to Arval.
To be fair, what exactly would a second option there be? "Try me"? I mean, yeah, it could be a funny memeroute where you fight literally everyone to the death, but I don't see where it could lead. A more logical splitting point would be if Shez simply denies the insistance to join a class, because what are they going to do except negotiate his silence at that point?
If they want to sell a larger amount of content at that point, there could be a second subsplit "Join the church or get out", and then a few chapters later, it could be "Go solo in the war as an actual merc or join the evil dubstep magicians". Basically just doubling the amount of routes available in the game.
@@lpfan4491 If they did not go to the monastery, Shez would never find out about Kronya and the kidnapping of Monica, which would mean the well has not been poisoned yet. An alternate series of events would happen instead, where they look for Byleth and Jeralt instead of going to the Monastery. By doing this, they could run into Solon or whatever, and that's how the route could start. Since we know Solon leaves the monastery often, this makes a lot of sense.
Nobody can deny the uniqueness of this route. It could answer so many unanswered questions in both games, and playing as the Agarthans would be extremely interesting. You could still add the Arval vs Sothis conflict and learn more about Shez's mother too. The route could literally do everything. I can't imagine a better 4th route.
@@Katie-hb8iq My reasoning is that there really is no way to get out of going to the monestary without declaring aggression against the order of knights.
And very little actually changes if Shez simply leaves soon after they arrive, because the whole Monica-thing only happens weeks after choosing a house, so they'd miss it if they never become a student.
@@Katie-hb8iq That literally can't happen. Shez was forced to go against their will, it wasn't Shez's choice to make.
@@nuibaba280 You really think the Knights are going slay the merc who saved their students if she doesn't want to get paid and is happy to go on their way?
The downside of going to the monastery is that it wastes time and makes it difficult to track Byleth and Jeralt.
Of course it can happen at the house selection, but there is a better opportunity to excuse yourself before this that the game honestly leaves open. If they did try to apply force, it would honestly give more justification to join the Agarthans later since that is pretty evil by the choice to not let someone who helped you go freely where they want
I'm just upset that we had to kill him like why do we have to kill him he was one of the best characters in the game
Killing your favorite character is the three houses experience
@@avej99 You get used to it playing Koei's Dynasty Warriors. Better than Capcom's Dynasty Wars, where you only play as 1 of the 3 sides, so you have no time feel attached to the officers of the opposing armies.
Crys and takes arval on adventures after she's dead😫
That cutscene will never not be sad.
I remember being excited of the potential interactions Arval could have with Byleth/Sothis, but they didn't really do anything with it.
Also something I don't understand is, if Arval/Epimenides die in the recruited Byleth route, then why do Shez still have their powers afterwards? Was it transferred to the sword?
Shez and Arval are ultimately still one person. Their powers probably come from the core inside them like Myson said.
Shez still has Arval's core thingy
Probably for similar reasons to why Byleth still has access to Divine Pulse after escaping Zahras.
Considering that Shez and Arval/Epimenides are basically soulmates in a literal sense, i’m not surprised that with the death of one, their power goes to the other.
@@rustkarl by the reasoning of "Sothis actually dies when Byleth dies", though, Shez would have died too if that were true.
Epimenides is a prime example of a villain with redeemable qualities. Yes, he cares about his people and wants to save the world.... But his idea involves either genociding or subjugating the "wretched spawn" of Sothis, which is a term Agarthans use to describe surface-dwelling humans. They and Epimenides view everyone who isn't Agarthan as subhuman.
It would have been nice to tie arval further up to TWSID and maybe Nemesis. Nemesis' absence is a big missed opportunity in the game.
True. That, and many, many other things are missed as well.
Hope fir DLC Nemesis...
@@nicolasbanidol2371 with God shattering stars !
Where’s my hard rock God Shattering Star?
@@nicolasbanidol2371 you can come anytime afterwards or i
Hoping for a dlc that explores Shez backstory and who their mom is while having a proper Sothis Vs Epithemus
@Methodius To be fair with the game, it makes sense that this route doesn't exist. If we assume Nemesis needed the entire timeframe of Three Houses to awaken, then he is three years too early. Presumably, the agarthans also had additional research from the blood the death knight got them(Which never happens in hopes) and their continued infiltration of the continent(Which is also off the map, since they were forced to temporarily retreat), so that also works against this.
@Methodius he was always more of a plothole.
I enjoyed their inclusion but I do wish we got to see more. I enjoy the idea of a "man-made god/man-made god killing weapon." I like how Ephimendes (someday I'll spell his name right lmao) contrasts Thales with both being cold and calculating but they, unlike Thales, who was willing to destroy their home and everyone in it to win, cared for their people. I hope the dlc we get lets us see more about Shez, Arval, and Ephimendes.
How much practise did it take for you to consistently say 'Epimenides' without falling over yourself?
I can legit picture Shez and Claude trolling them by purposely getting their name wrong:
"We meet again, Epinephrine! Oh look, it's Epidemic! Gotcha that time, Endorphin! Take it down the street, Epipen!"
" *_S T O P ._* "
Hey, Elfilin! (Sorry, it's a joke)
Man I really hope Arval and shez get added to feh and get some convos in forging bonds. Maybe arval and sothis can meet and have the long awaited conversation
Good news both versions of Shez has been added to FEH no sign of Arval yet though
@@4wheal good news arval now on in feh
Super intriguing stuff. Hope you do one about Shez in general, or maybe about Byleth and Shez's relationship.
I honestly ship those two.
What relationship? The Two supports they had, that were non substantial in any way?
@@nickcalderon2637 A relationship can be a connection.
@@asmrtpop2676 And that connection was? Sothis and Arval? Barely interact there. Their times as Mercenaries? Not touched on in the slightest.
@@nickcalderon2637 They are certainly interesting in the way they contrast one another: where Byleth is emotionally muted, Shez is expressive; where Byleth is wise, Shez is unaware; Byleth's growth is centered around their growth as a person, Shez's growth is based around finding a goal/surpassing your limits. It is a shame we only got 3 supports (counting Jeralt's A rank since it focuses more on Byleth than their father) + paralogue that build on their dynamic, but there is something there. Plus expedition dialogue choices that feed into their dynamic.
Hopefully we see more or Arval in a new DLC to see more story about him and more about the Agarthans.
I’m honestly disappointed in the fact that people are hoping for DLC’s to answer these questions, when they SHOULD’VE BEEN ANSWERED IN THE MAIN GAME!!!
Yeah. This game really wasn’t good. I’m sure it will either get a lot of dlc, or retconed and never talked about again. Ah well, Bayo 3 will probably stomp it and it will get retconed.
I get the destinct feeling that Three Hopes will only get rated interms of gameplay in the future. Sorta like how FEW has been for years where the factor of "lol, the story is horrible, I know that" is so obvious and beaten into the ground in the FE-zeitgeist that people only talk about the positives and negatives interms of everything else.
i believe that is the point lol you can get mad at it being dlc but at the same time you rather they just fix the mistake then leave the plot hole there hanging which honestly hurts the thing more then the dlc would.
@@LunaPPK I rather they don't leave their Game on Cliffhangers and then resolve it with DLCs. So no, I don't want them to fix it with DLCs. I want them to leave it as a Cliffhanger and use their DLC for quite literally anything else if they truly "Don't want to Undermine Three Houses".
@@nickcalderon2637 Which means we are left with the cliffhanger forever and they don't care because the game sold well regardless. I am just as much against the practice as you, but it is so deeply hooked into the medium at this point that all the anti-dlc completion stance does is hurt the fans.
I love arval. He's like a much better sothis in every regard. Also, he's hilarious and a hoot.
Based. I like Sothis and Arval equally tho
Too bad he's gaslit into oblivion, and FUCKING DIES.
they are both plot devices lol
Honestly still annoyed at the game only killing a playable character on AG when you choose to defeat byleth. I assumed you’d lose Monica and Holst in the other routes as they are also newly playable and fill the same roles, as a guide their leaders. Randolph literally dies in every route in three houses on top of having absolutely no meaningful connections to any playable characters (he has no relationship with Caspar despite being distantly related). Killing Monica would be devastating since edlegard went out of her way to save her. If I saw the post friend death cutscene on SB I would have laughed out loud at the idea of anyone having significant feelings about it, especially since shez says they’re relatively used to aquatints dying. GW Judith dying is good choice but she should have been playable (honestly I think they should have taken Shamir out of GW starting roster, since she doesn’t support with anyone naturally on the route, and had Judith instead, it’s almost weird they made any knights/faculty playable since it’s literally only 4 or 5 of them and all but Shamir are route locked
Edelgard didn't go out of her way to save Monica through she simple took advantage of the opportunity Shez made.
She even says herself that she was more then willing to leave Monica to her fate as seen in 3 houses
I wish the Agarthans were more fleshed out in both games, but at least Three Hopes made me like Byleth.
Arval is great. They're like your genius little sibling that gets jealous when you spend too much time with Byleth.
Jokes aside, a really charming but bittersweet inclusion to the cast. They couldn't escape from a deeply programmed purpose though, no matter how much they cared.
Everyone’s talking about the deepness of Arval’s story, and then all I’m occupied by is how ridiculous Arval looks with an axe and shield.
I never thought about how Solon was hinting towards this in 3 Houses. Kind of interesting foreshadowing when you look back at it, makes you think Arval is something that actually fits into the lore, and not a forced OC inclusion
could i ask you expand on this? :o
@@magnolyan After Byleth merges with Sothis in 3 Houses (chapter 10 I believe), solon mentions something about a mysterious being. Which could have been forshadowing Arval like they were planned in the first place
It was pretty vague. But looking back to that cutscene with all the info we have on Arval definitely could lead to people connecting the 2
I liked Arval. I hope we get more of Arval’s/Epimentides’ backstory in a future DLC.
I think arval was enjoying life with shez and learning as a new being but was being held back by the original being vestiges. It didn't knew or was capable of understanding why it hated so much soths. Howeve it still was a huge influence, maybe that lack of feelings came from the original(We see argathans do not care much about each other, like in 3houses fake monica was left to die or how they never fought as a unity.
Love your work! Excited to see you cover the next game.
Great, now I know who Epimenides is without asking other people about it!
Never ask who Epimenides is, worst mistake in my life.
One day we'll get the DLC to expand on everything
haha
ha...
*copium and hopium*
I liked Arval, and the idea of his existence/lore. I just feel like this game kind of missed the point of the Fodland stories with it though. It seemed like Sothis and Byleth were spiritually extremely significant and thematically relevant to the restoration of Fodland, but this time around they kinda just left it to the side.
Also would have liked an explanation on Arval's sword even slightly. I've only played AG so far though.
It's also pretty bad that the game all but says Sothis has regained all her memories but she has zero interaction with her surviving children definitely on the paths you kill them.
What they do to Sothis bugs me to no end. It's a repeat of Gaiden almost; "we're better off without gods because we don't have any expectations on us but are also no longer coddled", except that you're completely pathetic compared to your neighbors and set to decline into abject irrelevancy without the magical oversight. Does Fodlan deserve Sothis? I guess not, hence they got Blyat (sorry, Byleth) instead, and muddled dialogue on whether or not there's an afterlife or what the heck Sothis is/was doing while unconscious.
In a game that had potential but wasted a lot of it, Arval is the epitome of a new character that had potential but the plot wasted a lot of it. And it's a shame. I really liked Arval design. Their voice actor added some charming personality. They had a great chemistry with Shez too.
@Methodius
That just emphasizes that it's wasted potential, if they need to sell separate DLC to "fix it."
All because Nintendo is falling to it's delusional greedy ways again. They dont wanna make SOME MONEY and TAKE THEIR TIME on anything but the most largely anticipated projects, and even then I bet the creators of the Zelda and Splatoon titles have to really twist the greedy executives' arms on it. They just wanna cut corners and make every penny ever...
@Methodius That practise needs to die. If it's that important put it in the base game.
Then again if it does happen I'll end up buying it so I'm the sucker at the end of the day.
@@Superluigi881 THIS!! The first line, to be exact, its just more corporate meddling that makes these games mediocre.
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 Not really. DLC is ultimately just extra.
I dont know of it was just me, but killing arval honestly made me more emotional than killing Byleth
still hoping we get all three hopes exclusives in heroes. i dont think arval would be a mythic but at least a legendary. we could also get “fallen” versions of shez and byleth where they’re vessels to arval and sothis. not exactly evil versions but still out for the other.
Arval kinda looks like the fierce deities mask from zelda .
I love Arval and wish to see more of them in any DLC etc.
And i just feel… sad for Arval in that ending, especially with that look Arval gives before their last words.
Like Shez reaching out to them is being sadly refused.
I was disappointed with the secret route. To me it felt like it just ended right as it begun. Not helping matters is that after that event (I was on Scarlet Blaze when I did this) no one really acknowledges it except Edelgard, Hubert, Byleth. I felt that right when you recruit Byleth thats when the secret route begins and that it would take up the rest of the route and have all three groups team up to take on Epimenides. And that maybe we could’ve had a Sothis vs Epimenides fight and have the characters wondering what the hell is going on. There could’ve a moment where Arval goes against Epimenides’ wishes and sacrifice himself in order to save Shez. I felt this is what the secret route needed in order to be worth playing instead of just having 2 chapters and having it immediately go back to the status quo.
It also would’ve given Arval a much bigger payoff.
Because it's not a route. It's directly labelled as a chapter.
Well I wish it became a route.
Only Crimson Blaze has a real sit. No idea about GW, but I heard AG was meant to have one too
@@Fishman465 Sure
@@RavenGamingOverLord it's believable as Three Hopes isn't the only Folidan game to have a chunk missing
The biggest question I still have about Epimenides is why does he believe so adamantly that Sothis and her "spawn" will bring destruction to the world. He refers to Sothis as an "Abomination" In his paralogue which suggests that he considers her to be unnatural or simply disgusting. It makes me wonder why he feels that way about her and how Sothis arrived in Fodlan in the first place.
Basically, Jenova?
Seiros tells us that Sothis originally lives in space far away to visit Fodlan on occasion and the Agarthans namely Solon keeps calling her a fell star. I assume it's something like a fallen angel situation and she ended up just stuck perhaps. That's all I remember really being said about Sothis' origins.
Bear in mind that I actually view the Agarthans and TWSITD as the antiheroes of the story, so my view is somewhat biased, but from the lore I've read, Sothis isn't so much a goddess as a superpowered alien dragon who landed in Fodlan and got the local yokels to start worshipping her as a goddess. She was also able to reproduce asexually and created a race of green haired alien lizards disguised as humans, the Nabateans. The Agarthans, an intelligent, science minded nation, were obviously alarmed at this invasive and manipulative alien species and tried to destroy them. The lizards virtually wiped them out in return. A few survived in underground bunkers and evolved into TWSITD.
I loved Shez's non-binary partner in destiny. They're snarky and playful, and they genuinely care for Shez in the end. They really matched and even, because of their prolonged presence through this game, surpassed Sothis' funny sass in 3 Houses. I need content about the Agarthans even more than I did before.
Still would prefer that Arval be a more unique character. Don't know about anyone else but I think Sothis did the whole "Powerful being inside a normal person's head" thing better.
My only wish was that we could've killed Epimenides without killing Arval.
I wish there would have been a better choice in the Sothis vs Arval conflict, if Arval and Sothis can't coexist with one another then don't make the secret ending with the best rewards lock you into one side of the conflict!
I wish Arval and Sothis interacted at least once in the story
I don’t mind it
Something to add.
There's very brief mentions in houses of "old gods" that were worshipped before the arrival of sothis. Going into hopes, my assumption was that arval was meant to be one of those "old gods." But then the introduction of epimenides kinda makes it more complicated. We know that arval was created to oppose the nabateans. But then I ask myself.
Is arval meant to copy an old god? Or was arval the god that was worshipped by the people in fodlan (pre nabatean landing)?
The story screwed over Arval. We don’t know much about him and he is not mentioned after the end of the final endgame
Epimenideez nuts
You know, I have a sort of theory about what Arval is. I believe, using their magitech, Epimenides somehow managed to take some portion of the darkness from within Zahras and merge a portion of his own consciousness within it. This ultimately resulted in the creation of Arval. Believing that Sothis was far too powerful of a foe to best on their own, Epimenides sought to create an entity from Zahras who can grow in power and combat Sothis.
We even see a glimpse of it with each recurring fight against Byleth. Shez was utterly crushed by Byleth the first time, yet in the span of 2.5 years, Shez managed to go toe to toe with Byleth and nearly best them before Sothis took over. Yet even then, the next time they fought, Shez still showed strength and skill to keep up with Byleth. And finally, even when Byleth gave themselves over to Sothis, Shez was not only able to face Sothis in even combat, but was able to even react perfectly to Sothis's Divine Pulse, warping out of the attack in a split second.
The fact that Shez could actually kill Sothis shows that Arval's power grew tremendously, along with Shez's skill in using that power.
Arval may not be a true Agarthan deity as we had once theorized, but Arval very much ended up proving themselves to have power that can genuinely combat that of Sothis at the end.
Not Acually.. in Route Byleth was Killed.
1: Byleth and Jeralt lacks A Weapon as Powerful as the weapon Shez can summon any time
2: Byleth and Sothis I'm not sync with each other
3: Plot
4: Sothis Took over but again She is not use to byleth and Byleth pretty much just gave up and no longer cared after Jeralt Died
5: No Sword of the Creator
Keep in mind there's so many circumstances .. even unrealistic circumstances that allow Shez To Be on par With Byleth
If you look in the true ending of each route Wheb Byleth and Shez had conversation after Arval incident.. Byleth Admitted They Held back despite Arval possessed Shez trying to kill them.
Another instance is there support conversation Where Shez Still could not Best Byleth.. but to their credit they were able to keep up with byleth .. but the skill difference becomes extremely noticeable when Shez Pointed out They were Spaming Their Abities, While Byleth Barely Needed To use Divine Pulse.. or maybe we could give it Shez more credit and Was Byleth Simply becoming more familiar with sothis power, While Shez Had 2 Years To work on his.
You aware Sothis is not at full power.. if she were to regain all of her memories she would Regain Her Adult Form and be at 100%.. all that was from an interview
@@elpopman2055 You say all that, yet at the same time, it doesn't change that there's tremendous growth in Arval and Shez each time they clash with Sothis/Byleth. Arval went that there's no way that they can beat Byleth to being certain that they can, and ultimately proven right.
We make all the excuses we want about Sothis, but in the end, Sothis arrogantly believed herself to be superior, but when push came to shove, Arval had the power to straight up kill her.
@@0axis771 > We make all the excuses we want about Sothis, but in the end, Sothis arrogantly believed herself to be superior, but when push came to shove, Arval had the power to straight up kill her.
Spoken like a true, delusional Agarthan supporter. Yet, despite us "making excuses" here you come making excuses for the most hilariously, blatantly evil faction in the game. A typical day for good old MetalGearRaxis, isn't it? Still answering any argument you can't refute with a Velvet Crowe picture, friend? They did nothing wrong at all, the Nabateans were the real menace all along. I'll never get people like you, that do insane mental gymnastics to justify hating Rhea's people for no reason at all. We are given no reason at all to believe the Agarthans were poor oppressed victims, and no amount of wild headcanons from you, that Edelgard simp that conflates reality with Fodlan on Serene's Forest and legit loves Edelgard as if she was real (imagine the guy likely has a dakimakura of her, lol) or NaberiusBuster on GameFaqs will make it true.
@@0axis771 When push came to shove, Shez and Arval still won against a Sothis controlled Byleth, who weren’t in sync, and thus would NOT have been able to go toe to toe with Shez in that instance. I’m not gonna say Shez and Arval didn’t grow in power tremendously (sometimes being somewhat arbitrary in a CERTAIN Paralogue), but to say that the Fight in the “Kill Byleth” Route’s was an even fight, isn’t the Truth.
I mean they didn’t even end the wars by the end of the game so why would they try to explain Arval anymore than they have to?
Really hope Fie Emblem get some better writers for their next games. They can write good characters just not good plots.
Assuming it is the same guys from Three Houses(too lazy to double check), then they got into the series by writing FEW...which is infamous for having a terrible story in a similar way Fates is.
Window-dressing and detail-filling are easy. Making them meaningful is hard. Many shat on Fates more for lacking a continent name than for the story being a mess in Conquest and Revelations, though, so the detail focus will probably continue.
I'm amazed no one else has gotten hung up on how the heck Nemesis stole Sothis in the first place, to be honest, you'd think that her tomb would be the most-watched place on the planet.
Shez’ adoptive mother gives me big Sarah Kinney (Marvel) vibes - purposefully keeping isolated, well-educated for a non-noble etcetc
Let's not pretend that Solon was referencing Epimenides in Three Houses; it's obvious that Sothis is the only being that ought to be able to escape such a spell, and that Solon and the other Agarthans had gravely miscalculated what Byleth was capable of in terms of how she was connected to Sothis.
Nope. Because Solon mentions only one other person who can do so and Solon KNOWS that Byleth is Sothis so that person can't be Sothis.
"I am so surprised that you have escaped the darkness, even tho I could have guessed that you share the same power of your previous incarnation and that person managed to break out."
Yeah, I agree with Nuibaba here. It would only serve to make the guy even more silly as a villain.
Except Solon already addresses Byleth as the Fell Star Sothis, meaning he already thinks he knows what her power is capable and assumes they cannot escape Zahras, otherwise, why even bother with the spell in the first place. With that assumption in mind, when he is shocked that Sothis/Byleth can overcome the spell, he begins to refer back to the only OTHER person he knows who can withstand the spell.
@@millrose6250 Thales?
I think I may be in the minority here but I just didn't like Arval that much. Perhaps I was just too wary of them from the get go, which prevented me to connect with them in a meaningful way. Personality wise I didn't find them much more interesting than Sothis, because I felt like they were telling Shez what they wanted to hear with a few sassy remarks, as if they were maliciously guiding Shez towards their own personal goals (I know it is meant to signify that that's Epimenides will, even if Arval isn't aware of it, but it contrasts a lot with Sothis, who was more critical but less directive than them).
I still remember the first time I played the secret chapter and feeling next to nothing when Epimenides died, leaving Shez to feel sorrowful for them. I know the game pretends for you to feel sad, but I just felt nothing. Perhaps it could have helped to have seen Arval's conflicting emotions after killing Byleth, since I never slayed them on any of my playthroughs. It may have helped me to feel more sympathy over them and separating them of Epimenides more.
But I think the biggest flaw they have is how little we know about Shez. I feel like if they had explored Shez's past, it may have helped solidify both Shez's and Arval's inclusion. As it stands right now, Arval is just meh for me.
Arval is like an artificial Sothis... if kid-Sothis were to adult-Sothis (also known as the Sword of the Creator) what Arval was to Epidemnes. The ultimate god-play that probably got everyone killed.
I loathe how withholding info is mistaken for "mystery" in the Foadlan games, like that ain't it imo ofcourse
Epimenideez nuts.
I somewhat confused as to why Epimenadies has the Timotheos heros relic (Hapi's). It seems odd and random especially since he doesn't have a crest
@Methodius he was holding it and using the tome as a weapon
I find it pretty amusing that a deity like entity like Arval is still hurt by heroes relics for being crestless.
@@RavenGamingOverLord Stop liking your own comments.
@@Superluigi881 I didn’t do that lol
I find it funny you though was me who did that.
Have fun complaining about things don’t matter
@@RavenGamingOverLord Okay silly
Something that may or may not be coincidence is that if you rearrange the letters in "Arval" you can spell "larva" which is kind of what they are, a lifeform in its early stages of life which hasn't yet matured into its complete form which is Epimenides in this case.
Edit: just noticed this was mentioned later in the video. My bad
It's definitly intentional. The japanese name ist straight out Larva.
I now know who Arval is, great video btw it was amazing, but now I want to know more about Epimenedes!!! I feel like he had his own agenda separate from the Agarthans, but W H Y?? And who is Shez's mom? She sounds amazing, but it's a shame we never learn anything about her. I had hoped Ashe's letter would reveal anything, given the cliffhanger his supports with Shez ended on, but they told me nothing.
I honestly love arval, and being the leader of slither in the dark and the race of the agarthans (I can’t spell lol..)
Same
I have an idea as to how the developers could have introduced a benevolent Agarthan in Three Hopes. What if at the beginning of the plot, the factions are at first reluctant to trust this Agarthan, even though they were close friends with Shez’s sergeant mother. Over the course of the story, the benevolent Agarthan begins earning the trust of Shez and the others. This way, we don’t go to Shambhala just yet and Shez isn’t able to learn anything their past. And, if Byleth isn’t recruited, the benevolent Agarthan gets killed by Sothis and that information regarding Shez and Shambhala becomes lost forever.
I can't hear Arval anymore... It is the saddest sentence in the game. I miss her sass.
Byleth says the same thing about Sothis after the sealed forest chapter in Three Houses. So it’s possible Arval isn’t fully dead and is still fused with Shez in some way if the similarity to Byleth is anything to go by.
For the majority of the story, Arval is boring as heck lol. Man pops up at the end of a chapter, says something and is forgotten until the next chapter or major cutscene.
i dont even care what it is, i cant wait for DLC, i will never complain at the chance to return to fodlan
The biggest snarky artificial god.
Both Arval and Epimenides represent a much more grey area of the Agarthans that TWSITD sorely needed. Though Epimenides acts in a typical supremist mindset, believing humans like Nemesis and the house lords to be mere beasts, he actually has shown far more care and love towards others. Epimenides apologizes to Solon for sacrificing him to cast Zahras, he admits that it pains him to take Shez and Arval's body, and even laments how he has sacrificed so much during the final conflict with the lords and Shez and wonders why it still wasn't enough. One could even say that Arval feeling joy, sorrow, emptiness, and freedom is also something that Epimenides also shares. Perhaps even Epimenides just wanted this battle to finally end and be free of it all.
With how Epimenides talks about Seiros, the saints, and the goddess, Epimenides represents closer to a less evil mindset and opinion about Sothis and the Nabateans. Given how Sothis acted in 3Hopes, we have a better picture that for a not-so-evil Agarthan, the Nabateans are the bad guys in truth and that they will reign destruction and ruination to the world and their people. The Shadow Library depicts a viewpoint of an Agarthan and definitely gives more credence that the Agarthans didn't make the weapons to combat Sothis because they thought of themselves as gods. They were scared humans that wanted a "nuclear deterrent" in hopes of defending themselves.
Just realized the acronym sounds like twisted
That's honestly bullshit because Epimenedes, for all the sorrow he expressed at the sacrifices he made, ultimately cared more for the ultimate goal of killing Sothis than his own people, or at least the actual living, breathing humans. They are necessary sacrifices for the nation. He is fundamentally a fascist type who is still very much an Agarthan supremacist and who clearly despises the Children of the Goddess as abominations and blames them for suffering that he and his people started.
@@MrGksarathy You can call it fascist or however you want. But the fact is, even Epimenides expressed a greater range of emotions than any other member of TWSITD ever did. The fact is, Fodlan was originally home to his people before Sothis came and started creating her own race of people on their land.
We still are not yet privy to all the details, but with how Sothis acts, she wasn't this supremely benevolent deity that Rhea depicts her as, but rather one that will kill you if you slight her and clearly looks down on others. Against such a powerful being like that, it's no wonder that anyone would be terrified of such a being and consider them some monster.
@@0axis771 Yeah, no, Sothis was the one who also gave the technology that the Agarthans used to create their prosperous civilization, and she and her children seemingly lived among them without incident for quite a while before the Agarthans declared war on her and her children. Also, even in their own telling of events, the Agarthans admit that they earned the displeasure of Sothis for spilling too much blood without any shame whatsoever, implying that they didn't really think there was anything wrong with mass death or warfare. Also, after their initial war ended, it's telling that the survivors, probably the leadership, spent the next few millennia obsessively plotting revenge while the Nabateans basically moved on with their lives and either scattered across the continent or stayed in Zanado, watching over their mother's resting place. Not only that, but no matter what the Children of the Goddess may have done to the Agarthans, nothing justified the absolute genocide the latter perpetrated.
In addition, while I also dislike how Sothis acted in Three Hopes, it is somewhat understandable, since she awakened with basically her full memories and thus full knowledge of what the Agarthans did to her and her children. To top that off, a seeming Agarthan descendant has been trying to kill her host, who she actually cares about. No wonder we see her more wrathful side. Normally, she is fairly respectful of the autonomy of others, and while she will take the piss out of anyone and everyone, she doesn't typically try to enforce her will on them.
Finally, I don't think the Agarthans had anymore right to the land than the Nabateans did, since although the Agarthans were there first, Sothis never disrespected their claim to living on the land and uplifted them to roughly equal status to her own children. Moreover, her children were very much born in Fódlan, and it's as much their home as it is the home of the Agarthans.
@@MrGksarathy By whose testimony? Rhea's, who has the biggest Sothis bias there ever was.
Yes, I can believe that Sothis may have bestowed knowledge to the Agarthans. However, whether their relationship was ever that of equals or companionship, is another thing entirely.
The shadow library book admits that the Agarthans fought against one another. That's not that surprising. Humans do that.
But that's as far as we can go with the facts.
By that point, anything can go. Including whether the Nabateans were by any means oppressive to the Agarthans or pushing their religion onto the Agarthans. nothing was ever to suggest there was any true equality. We have no clue.
Rhea claims that the Agarthans saw themselves as gods, but the book and every member of TWSITD never once refer to themselves in such a manner, meaning that this is Rhea's own bias against them. Humans launched the pillars of light to strike at Sothis not because they were arrogant and thought that they were superior, but because they believed that Sothis was going to come to kill them.
Given the fact that if Sothis feels slighted, she will not hesitate to kill, it's not out there that Sothis planned to punish the Agarthans, and the Agarthans fought back.
Random fun fact: Male Shez is voiced by Damian Haas, a cast member of Smosh
After playing through the game
I really wanted to see a clash between the two realms.
Wherein Sothis and Epimenides could speak to each other directly, for just a few moments.
I'm sure there's quite the option of things the developers could elaborate on with this conversation.
Alas, it was not to be.
Perhaps in future DLC.
As a massive Byleth fan I kinda wish Arval belonged to Byleth instead of Sothis now, they're just so much more likeable, funny and interesting
I don't think Arval would bounce off Byleth as well as they do with Shez. But it would be cute to see Arval being supportive toward Byleth's growth as a professor.
Or even a cute interaction between Sothis and Arval + the Progenitor protagonists.
I don't see it.
Arval is just there to be an excuse why Shez doesn't die, outside of that they're so irrelevant it almost hurts.
I much prefer Arval to Sothis, it would've been great if she was more like them in personality
@@ReaperBlaze76 yeah not really cool that he gets killed off like a jobber in the first game
Epimenedes sounds like a rapper name 😂
This Agarthan CHAD is going to drop a mixtape soon 🔥
I love Arval's beautiful appearance and their character.
Before I play this game, I thought they're a heretic deity, but they aren't actually. Although, it's strange that Epimenides looks like a deity. I doubt he is "an ordinary man". Possibly, he was only convinced so by someone. He might be a creator of dark magic...They're literally mysterious.
21:28 this has to by my favourite line in the game, my god, litarly
My own personal theory is that Shez's adopted mother is actually Edelgard's birth mother and Dimitri's step mother Patricia/Anselma. I was actually waiting for a point in Scarlet Blaze or Azure Gleam where they would show a portrait/painting of Edelgard's/Dimitri's mother and have Shez recognize her as their mother.
I wonder if after the Tragedy of Duscur, Patricia/Anselma were recruited by Those who Slither, saw that they were experimenting with a child, and decided to betray those who slither and take the child and run. She couldn't have run into the Empire or Kingdom due to her connections to both, so she ran into the Alliance and settled into a rural village where they were left alone until she passed and Shez joined Berling Mercenaries.
Of course according to Cornelia and Thales that Anselma/Patricia are dead, but if she vanished from them right after the tragedy of duscur, why wouldn't they think she died?
That literally makes no sense. Anselma doesn't have time to be in a Leicester mountain village, she's a political queen and Shez doesn't fit in the timeline if she raised Shez after her disappearance. She wouldn't care for Shez outside of basic pity either due to how she treated Dimitri. That directly contradicts Shez reaffirming that they had a loving mom when Dimitri reveals Anselma's lack of care for him.
@Methodius Them saying Edelgard killed her mother is a lie, though. When the tragedy of Duscur happened, Edelgard was already back in the Empire while Patricia was still in the Kingdom. Patricia arranged for the tragedy to happen so she could use it as an excuse to flee back to her daughter. Thing is, she died before she could ever make it back to the Empire. Edelgard confirms that she never saw her mother again after leaving the Kingdom and doesn't know what happened to her.
@Methodius In Azure Gleam during Arianrhod, Edelgard claims that Thales was the one who killed her. During the Zaharas chapter if you recruited Byleth, Dimitri asks Edelgard what happened to her mother, and she claims that the last time she saw her was in Faerghas and that Dimitri probably saw her later than Edelgard did. So Those who Slither blame her death on Edelgard, while Edelgard blames her death on those who slither. Either way we don't have a confirmation on what actually happened to her, the general consensus is that she's just dead.
I thought he was a counterpart to sothis, like an ancient dragon of the deep, while sothis comes from the skies, kinda like how fates has the dusk and dawn dragons as parallels and rivals, but instead he is like medeus if he was a human and dragons had won, coming back to life for revenge. In some ways 3 houses/hopes does a reversal on FE tropes, like how the "sacred weapons" are actually cursed and will hurt/take over it's wielder instead of healing them like the falchion would.
Imagine you going to the wild and some monkey is typing Python
It’s so weird how there’s so many unsolved mysteries even with 3 paths and yet it seems like we aren’t gonna be getting any DLC
... as a side note... I love this game. This game feels unique compared to the old fire emblem heros game... the combat never feels bullshit unfair and the character twists just because they never met byleth are such interesting takes that you get wrapped back into fodlan... even after 12+ runs on maddening in three houses and being utterly burned out on the schooling mechanics
Me, having not played three hopes at all: hm yes I see, this all makes sense to me
Such a shame how two games with such intricate backstory and lores feel so rushed because of budget and time constraints.
Arval sound like arrival
I’ve played all three routes but there were a lot of scenes I don’t think I ever saw. When does myson talk to shez in a cutscene like that 4:30
It's in Azure gleam can't remember where.
I more wondering why he has horrit a tome related to timotheos and why is it in zaharas?
Arval had potential, but was honestly to me my least favourite part of three hopes from a story perspective. I get there reason why, but the constant droning on about killing the Ashen demon and that everything will work out once you kill them got really old really fast. Shez and Arval’s interactions that didn’t involve bringing up the Ashen demon however i did enjoy.
It doesn’t help that ACTUALLY killing the Ashen Demon feels unrewarding as Humanly possible.
I really wanted to know more about him to arval but they didn’t go into munch in the game I played dimitri story but didn’t get munch information maybe it will be with Claude
ARVAL: “ It Not that I like you or anything, BAKA!.!.😡
(Male) Shez : Well I love you too 😘
ARVAL: … 😳💕
I’m curious if Arval/Epimenides died, how does Shez maintain their power?
I assume the power passes to them, since they were linked at the soul and Shez was the one who dealt the killing blow.
So... DLC isn't looking likely at this point...
Engage was in the way.. who knows now engage is probably finished we will get dlc
It's over
We already know that Arval can take over Shez’s body and Sothis can take over Byleth’s so its more than plausible that they could interact.
Is there going to be dlc?
Maybe, hopefully
There shouldnt have to be DLC for basic, fundamental stuff like finishing the story, but there could be.
Hopefully?
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 They wouldn't use it to finish a story. The cliffhanger seems to be intentional. They'll probably use DLC just to expand on Shez's past.
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 I just at least want a good post game dlc.
This might sound dumb but… isn’t Arval genderless? I’m pretty sure the game itself only really uses they/them for Arval lol. But it’s been a good bit since I’ve played the game.
I may be insane but I like Myson
Arval is Voldemort
Upload hype!!
It gets pretty bad when the same vague group of people who want FEH to stay out of the mainseries lore want these characters to release there because what we have is relatively lackluster. Yeah, we vaguely understand who these guys are, but less so about why we should care. It's not like the entire thing about Shez and Epimenides is integrated in a way vital to the lore, outside of the very basic "but Arval made the entire game happen tho!", even tho that is moreso incidental and could have been any character if the writers wanted to come up with something else.
For all the grief people have with Byleth and Sothis as a plotdevice(Rightfully so btw, I'm not disagreeing with that critisism), it is at least clear why their existance is thematically vital for at least three of the routes to make sense.
Why does Shez and Arval need to be essential to justify their existence? Why can't they just be simple likable characters with potential room for more?
@@nuibaba280 Because an MC that has the most vague impact on their world is really strange, especially when the marketing and the actual lore imply that there should be some deeper significance.
@@lpfan4491 They share the MC spot with the lords. And there has been such a thing as passive supporting main leads. Not everything needs to be forced to be about them.
@@nuibaba280 When was that the case tho?
@@lpfan4491 All sorts of stories, there's even a trope for more passive protagonists that don't have a centric arc.
Shame! Three Hopes never gets a DLC! 💀
Maybe we will get a Sequel of Three Houses/Three Hopes in the far future!
I enjoyed Arval as a snarky companion, but the way their story was handled didn't get me invested in them too much.