This so resonates with me Alister! I am 62 an Englishman who moved to the wilds of Northern Vancouver Island 13 years ago and spent 8 years photographing Bears and all the other wildlife in that area as well as the Landscapes but primarily wildlife, (after years of getting my self esteem from the club photo competition scene in the UK). After moving to the island I was like a kid in a candy store selling my images in small galleries, coffee shops, likes on my website etc. unknown to me at the time I was so slipping into a mindset of if I don't get a pat on the back then I was feeling depressed about my photography but happiest when in the field experiencing what was around me. A long story but we moved down island to a bigger community where I was not known but still I did galleries and community markets to get my self esteem fix (: Something felt wrong I was not enjoying my photography. I had lost why I had made images for the past 30 years, the artist in me had been gradually swallowed and consumed by a need for self esteem in a world of mass images available to the public. So 3 years ago I closed down my website and put away all my camera gear etc and took a break. Now I have just decided to dust of the gear and start again and make images for me and start to explore Landscape photography on a journey on my own terms and not to satisfy that need for a pat on the back all the time which did dictate my image creation and emotional feedback to myself. Sorry for the long comment but you struck a chord with my situation. Many thanks Alan
Hopefully you get the chance to travel to the West coast of the island and take full photographic advantage of Long Beach. Port Hardy is nice but the entire island is a photographer's paradise... Also check out (...if you haven't already!!) Little Qualicum Falls. The miniature cascade of waterfalls are absolutely spectacular!
My situation is different from yours. I am a lifelong hobbyist. I am a 38-year camera club member and seldom do well in local or regional competitions. I am experienced at being anxious while waiting to learn contest results and no stranger to the ensuing disappointment. I have one huge advantage over those that view and judge my images. No matter how an image of mine is evaluated by others none of them get to experience my joy when they view my images. I enjoy my shutter time, even when I never take the camera our of the bag on an outing. None of them will understand what I went through processing the images. The back and forth I went through deciding how the final image was going to look. I am the luckiest photographer on the planet.
I see myself as a principled artist true to myself with a small devoted following of really interest people, and having survived a full time professional career, I see myself to be incredibly lucky to be alive and in this world. Being loved is not the same as being popular, and I am loved. Truth is, I see myself as insignificant and there is solace in that.
True, being loved is important and we are grateful to all those who love us, and who we love in return. Happy to hear that sense of self you have. Congratulations
I have paused the video at 5:13 to write my thoughts on the first Question: I would prefer to be a brilliant photographer but unkown. But I think popularity will come here automatically. ;-) I'm in the comfortable position landscape photography is my hobby. I rarely create money from it. Social media is a way to show some people my work, but I do not care about the number of followers and likes. Form me a comment I get on images are more worth than 10000 of likes. This is true for positive and critique comments. If someone take the time to comment your image, he/she had a closer look on your image and find it worth to write to the artist (at least in 95% of the time ;-) ) I'm really grateful for the time they spent on my image. Now I have watched the video to the end. You are right, as a professional photographer I would care about popularity. As you said, it directly relates to the income. Alister, thanks a lot for your videos and the work you produce. I love your videos like the one above.
When I started in digital photography, my camera was the NIKON Coolpix 5700. I was fortunate enough that my parents were heavily into gardening which provided me with an abundance of colorful flowers to choose from. I started off small and was proud of the photos I took without comparing my photos with someone else. People have to focus entirely upon themselves and the photographs they take. STOP 🛑 comparing your work with someone else. NO ifs ands or buts about it. You're NOT nor will you ever be in a competition or race against someone elses genre. They have already established an artistic form of photography, why would anyone want to try to re-invent the wheel? Invent your own rubber, you'll get further ahead in the photographic world and heck, maybe you'll become famous!!
So true Will, ironically, it is the people who are doing very different things these days that are getting the most attention... Until people start copying them !! :-)
Great, insightful stuff, Alister. I seem to have that photo fatigue you mentioned when scrolling on Instagram, although I never really liked those typically very colorful, high-dynamic range, wide angle landscape shots with for examples flowers or rocks in the foreground, which I see all the time on Instagram, to begin with. Generic indeed. So the choice between popular and generic or brilliant but unknown would be an easy one for me. Totally agreed about the excitement of finding something new in a photographed-to-death location. Looking forward to the next episode.
Another thought provoking episode. Brilliant and unknown or middle of the road and popular. I started out with the latter and evolved to the former. As I got more involved in choosing to take “my” photos the quality of the photos improved and so did my popularity. But this new popularity was with a different group than the ones who liked my middle ground work. The new group was people willing to pay for “my” photos as fine art prints or as ads in brochures and magazines. It was the best of both of your scenarios. I think in the end brilliant work will be discovered and the artist will have both scenarios. So it is better to be a brilliant unknown artist who will eventually become popular.
Great video Alister! Personally, I'd rather have a few good photos than be popular. I've achieved that quite well. lol Good photos, well, that's in the eye of the beholder, and since I'm the only beholder that matters, I'm happy with my photos, generally. The only frustrations I have are with myself and not being deliberate with my shots. I rush through the process and end up forgetting something simple. Anyway, loving all your videos. Thanks!
The question of being brilliant bit unknown v popular and generic is really easy for me, it's the former. I suppose my current situation doesn't fit into the metrics you talk about. My photography has become non-existent during 2022. I'm spending most of my time caring for my wife she has chemotherapy and attending to my work and I have little time or energy for creative thought and even less for putting it into practice. I switched off from social media because I was becoming frustrated viewing images that remind me that I can't pursue the creative outlet I love.
I totally get that, and please know I am sending my thoughts to you and your wife. Creativity comes in many shapes and sizes, I haven't made a single photograph since May, but I am still being creative every day: Creative thoughts, or ways to show my love for my wife. It's all good. Take care and I truly wish you both well during what must be a really tough time.
Alister - you posed an interesting and insightful question - would I prefer to be "gifted & unknown" or "generic and popular" - but I'm finding it difficult to answer. I've taken 'record' photographs for many years but only became serious about my photography when I retired a number of years ago. Moving away from simply recording events to taking meaningful images has frankly been a struggle, and the pressures of competitive club photography have incurred some knocks to my confidence along the way, and perhaps affected my self-esteem as a photographer. The real problem is I find it very difficult to assess the creativity of my own work. Competition judges do not always assist this process when they knock something I had felt was a good image. I don't feel I will ever be a "gifted" photographer although I do feel I have evolved into a competent one. However, I strongly feel the need for external validation of my work in order to evaluate my own assessment. This could be construed as a need for "popularity" but it's more a need for validation of what I'm delivering - self-validation seems less than adequate. I do hope this makes sense
You make some excellent points in your comment. I am taking all this in and digesting it.. It is of great value to me as an educator to get this breadth of opinion... Thanks for taking the time.
Alister, thnx for another good vlog. I love the ‘food for thought’ of this week. I can see the need for populairity in your buisiness. I am 67, so i spend all my time in getting better at photography. I only use Flickr and 500px for posting, not for liking other work! My inspiration i get from thease sites, and ofcourse from youtubers like you. As goïng september to Skye, i can’t wait for the vlog of next week😉
Popularity it's the easiest way (out of business) to go to. Easiest in the sens that if you are not looking for popularity (even if it's just in your family or friendship) why to do photography? Could we just enjoy doing pictures for ourselves without showing them to others? At this point it's more difficult, there's a little struggle because each of us has a lack of recognition at different levels so it's good to hear "it's beautiful" and why not? especially when it comes from photographer you value. As I often said if popularity is our goal we should consult. The other reason why I'm sharing my picture it's to create a dialogue between me and the viewer but unfortunately it doesn't happen frequently. We can see that From the great mountains of Tibet to our local environment we can produce beautiful pictures that have meaning and expressiveness.
100% mate and I am really glad we are starting to dive deeper into this on the forum. Really important stuff and your contribution is so appreciated. (words and images)
An enjoyable and thought provoking vlog as always. I'd happily take the gifted unknown but think that to be in that position you have to have the belief in what you're doing is good. I think that understanding and belief is more than self confidence and that's what I believe I lack (and talent obviously!) Without that self belief where can validation come from if not some form of popularity or acceptance? I'm waffling again,
This is a comment that has way more depth than you give it credit for. We need to understand when we ourselves fail in the execution of craft, but in terms of creativity, an understanding of ourselves and what we have to say is invaluable in terms of believing in our aesthetics. I lived in an illusion of popularity for a decade and allowed that to tarnish my own preference and articulation of that belief. All I can say is this, break the mould, be you
@@Alister_Benn one thing I can say is that I am being me and secondly, through a combination of many things I am only interested in shooting locally, even devoting this whole year to one particular two and a half mile stretch of the Caithness coast. Next weekend going to FW to the exhibition in the Lime tree, I won't even take the camera! I believe in my current output but not in my ability to judge it neutrally without the tainted memory of being there. Hey Ho
Hi Alister. I’m partway through the video and a question just arose in my mind. You imply that you are not driven by popularity at this stage of your development, but do you think that may, in part, be because you have achieved that? Would you be the photographer you are now (quieter scenes) if you did not have that success? Apologies if you answer this later in the video. I’m interested to know! Thanks again for everything.
I have a certain popularity, but way less than many other photographers I know. I need to be true to myself, I need to feel as if I am adding value to our art and society. These may be lofty goals, but I hear a lot of frustrating talk from photographers looking for their own path and their own voice. Following the herd is not going to do that. To be honest with you; making a living as a photographer is hard, every month we need sales to pay our bills, let alone saving some for the future. Could I make more money if I sold out, probably, but I won't. We should all aim to be the best version of ourselves.
@@Alister_Benn this is just the kind of response I was expecting! You are leading an ever growing wave of expressive photographers, Alister. You should be very proud of the impact you are having. Take care, Ross.
I need "guifted". But it is not what I do for a living... I feel that to have a good eye to spot a nice image and the talent to replicate this perception is most valuable. I feel that an interesting nature's photography need to show only or mostly romantic traits. It needs to be docile and give hope just like conception. And it is not necessarily what is popular in the public. For conception is not done in public. Or to suggest it in public is not seen well! But more importantly, such docile images are not going to receive thumbs up as much in a public venue for it is not the time and place! In a public exposition, people expect more vivid and striking novelty. Peuple are bombarded with strong contrasting colors constantly. We can't blame them! The gas station have full shelves of multicolor bag of chips in display 24/7 in their front windows! By the way, these bags of chips are actually a millar with a car paint literally! There is no way to find the most perfect rose to photograph and get their attention... I also noted that nature is very abused. It is in a state at the other pole of romantic. Sure there is still some left for their are still new nest every spring. Yet it is not to the standards that it could at all. For exemple, we have a migrating bird estuary where I live. Their used to be swan comming there. But one day, someone decided that it was fun to go and break all the eggs. We never saw these magnificent bird there again. The Vancouver island where I am, also clear cut forest very intensively. They grow mostly baby forest of Douglas fir. They cut them at 36 years of age while they live to 1300 years... And when they do they destroy all that is in the understory. Now the swan that was there is not comming back next year either... Now these are the huge romantic scares we need to deal with in photography... So yep one need a lot of "guifted"! It is a difficult question to figure out. I feel that we need to evolve past the strict photograph to achive a larger public. I think post processing need to pull the picture some more into pop culture. I begin to think that we need to tweek the photograph to the point of expressing what is mystic about it. Like attemting to touch it's subconscious existence, but without making it up... Which is probably impossible. For if the material World is under attack, the spiritual existence still holds alot of sharm. I had a bad young bald eagle picture that I turned into a Maryline Monroe pop art at some point!! Even if it was actually a bad idea, it makes one think!! th-cam.com/video/ZF257kiG5dI/w-d-xo.html
Being popular is like having a new car: it's awesome for two days. I'm an amateur so being popular isn't a necessity for me. I'd rather be happy with who and what I am.
I'd rather be brilliant and unknown, given my almost dozens of followers I think I'm well on my way. ;-D That said I would like to develop a trickle of income from photography (as art).
This so resonates with me Alister! I am 62 an Englishman who moved to the wilds of Northern Vancouver Island 13 years ago and spent 8 years photographing Bears and all the other wildlife in that area as well as the Landscapes but primarily wildlife, (after years of getting my self esteem from the club photo competition scene in the UK). After moving to the island I was like a kid in a candy store selling my images in small galleries, coffee shops, likes on my website etc. unknown to me at the time I was so slipping into a mindset of if I don't get a pat on the back then I was feeling depressed about my photography but happiest when in the field experiencing what was around me. A long story but we moved down island to a bigger community where I was not known but still I did galleries and community markets to get my self esteem fix (: Something felt wrong I was not enjoying my photography. I had lost why I had made images for the past 30 years, the artist in me had been gradually swallowed and consumed by a need for self esteem in a world of mass images available to the public. So 3 years ago I closed down my website and put away all my camera gear etc and took a break. Now I have just decided to dust of the gear and start again and make images for me and start to explore Landscape photography on a journey on my own terms and not to satisfy that need for a pat on the back all the time which did dictate my image creation and emotional feedback to myself. Sorry for the long comment but you struck a chord with my situation. Many thanks Alan
Nice comment Alan and very helpful for others.
Hopefully you get the chance to travel to the West coast of the island and take full photographic advantage of Long Beach.
Port Hardy is nice but the entire island is a photographer's paradise... Also check out (...if you haven't already!!) Little Qualicum Falls. The miniature cascade of waterfalls are absolutely spectacular!
My situation is different from yours. I am a lifelong hobbyist. I am a 38-year camera club member and seldom do well in local or regional competitions. I am experienced at being anxious while waiting to learn contest results and no stranger to the ensuing disappointment. I have one huge advantage over those that view and judge my images. No matter how an image of mine is evaluated by others none of them get to experience my joy when they view my images. I enjoy my shutter time, even when I never take the camera our of the bag on an outing. None of them will understand what I went through processing the images. The back and forth I went through deciding how the final image was going to look. I am the luckiest photographer on the planet.
I see myself as a principled artist true to myself with a small devoted following of really interest people, and having survived a full time professional career, I see myself to be incredibly lucky to be alive and in this world. Being loved is not the same as being popular, and I am loved. Truth is, I see myself as insignificant and there is solace in that.
True, being loved is important and we are grateful to all those who love us, and who we love in return. Happy to hear that sense of self you have. Congratulations
I have paused the video at 5:13 to write my thoughts on the first Question: I would prefer to be a brilliant photographer but unkown. But I think popularity will come here automatically. ;-)
I'm in the comfortable position landscape photography is my hobby. I rarely create money from it. Social media is a way to show some people my work, but I do not care about the number of followers and likes. Form me a comment I get on images are more worth than 10000 of likes. This is true for positive and critique comments. If someone take the time to comment your image, he/she had a closer look on your image and find it worth to write to the artist (at least in 95% of the time ;-) ) I'm really grateful for the time they spent on my image.
Now I have watched the video to the end. You are right, as a professional photographer I would care about popularity. As you said, it directly relates to the income.
Alister, thanks a lot for your videos and the work you produce. I love your videos like the one above.
When I started in digital photography, my camera was the NIKON Coolpix 5700. I was fortunate enough that my parents were heavily into gardening which provided me with an abundance of colorful flowers to choose from.
I started off small and was proud of the photos I took without comparing my photos with someone else.
People have to focus entirely upon themselves and the photographs they take.
STOP 🛑 comparing your work with someone else. NO ifs ands or buts about it. You're NOT nor will you ever be in a competition or race against someone elses genre. They have already established an artistic form of photography, why would anyone want to try to re-invent the wheel?
Invent your own rubber, you'll get further ahead in the photographic world and heck, maybe you'll become famous!!
So true Will, ironically, it is the people who are doing very different things these days that are getting the most attention... Until people start copying them !! :-)
Great, insightful stuff, Alister. I seem to have that photo fatigue you mentioned when scrolling on Instagram, although I never really liked those typically very colorful, high-dynamic range, wide angle landscape shots with for examples flowers or rocks in the foreground, which I see all the time on Instagram, to begin with. Generic indeed. So the choice between popular and generic or brilliant but unknown would be an easy one for me. Totally agreed about the excitement of finding something new in a photographed-to-death location. Looking forward to the next episode.
Thanks so much for that. Yeah, the whole thing is a conveyor belt of predictability. Give me brilliant and anonymous any day ❤️
i think the biggest thing for me is that i don't feel like i've ever taken a picture that a billion people haven't already taken a billion times.
you are lucky 😜 me too.
Another thought provoking episode. Brilliant and unknown or middle of the road and popular. I started out with the latter and evolved to the former. As I got more involved in choosing to take “my” photos the quality of the photos improved and so did my popularity. But this new popularity was with a different group than the ones who liked my middle ground work. The new group was people willing to pay for “my” photos as fine art prints or as ads in brochures and magazines. It was the best of both of your scenarios.
I think in the end brilliant work will be discovered and the artist will have both scenarios. So it is better to be a brilliant unknown artist who will eventually become popular.
Great video Alister! Personally, I'd rather have a few good photos than be popular. I've achieved that quite well. lol Good photos, well, that's in the eye of the beholder, and since I'm the only beholder that matters, I'm happy with my photos, generally. The only frustrations I have are with myself and not being deliberate with my shots. I rush through the process and end up forgetting something simple. Anyway, loving all your videos. Thanks!
Hey Barb, thanks so much for the lovely feedback.
Very well said … I love this channel!
Making me smile ❤️
The question of being brilliant bit unknown v popular and generic is really easy for me, it's the former. I suppose my current situation doesn't fit into the metrics you talk about. My photography has become non-existent during 2022. I'm spending most of my time caring for my wife she has chemotherapy and attending to my work and I have little time or energy for creative thought and even less for putting it into practice. I switched off from social media because I was becoming frustrated viewing images that remind me that I can't pursue the creative outlet I love.
I totally get that, and please know I am sending my thoughts to you and your wife. Creativity comes in many shapes and sizes, I haven't made a single photograph since May, but I am still being creative every day: Creative thoughts, or ways to show my love for my wife. It's all good. Take care and I truly wish you both well during what must be a really tough time.
Alister - you posed an interesting and insightful question - would I prefer to be "gifted & unknown" or "generic and popular" - but I'm finding it difficult to answer. I've taken 'record' photographs for many years but only became serious about my photography when I retired a number of years ago. Moving away from simply recording events to taking meaningful images has frankly been a struggle, and the pressures of competitive club photography have incurred some knocks to my confidence along the way, and perhaps affected my self-esteem as a photographer.
The real problem is I find it very difficult to assess the creativity of my own work. Competition judges do not always assist this process when they knock something I had felt was a good image.
I don't feel I will ever be a "gifted" photographer although I do feel I have evolved into a competent one. However, I strongly feel the need for external validation of my work in order to evaluate my own assessment.
This could be construed as a need for "popularity" but it's more a need for validation of what I'm delivering - self-validation seems less than adequate. I do hope this makes sense
You make some excellent points in your comment. I am taking all this in and digesting it.. It is of great value to me as an educator to get this breadth of opinion... Thanks for taking the time.
Alister, thnx for another good vlog. I love the ‘food for thought’ of this week. I can see the need for populairity in your buisiness. I am 67, so i spend all my time in getting better at photography. I only use Flickr and 500px for posting, not for liking other work! My inspiration i get from thease sites, and ofcourse from youtubers like you. As goïng september to Skye, i can’t wait for the vlog of next week😉
Thanks so much for your comment. I hope you enjoy your trip to Scotland.
Popularity it's the easiest way (out of business) to go to. Easiest in the sens that if you are not looking for popularity (even if it's just in your family or friendship) why to do photography? Could we just enjoy doing pictures for ourselves without showing them to others? At this point it's more difficult, there's a little struggle because each of us has a lack of recognition at different levels so it's good to hear "it's beautiful" and why not? especially when it comes from photographer you value. As I often said if popularity is our goal we should consult.
The other reason why I'm sharing my picture it's to create a dialogue between me and the viewer but unfortunately it doesn't happen frequently.
We can see that From the great mountains of Tibet to our local environment we can produce beautiful pictures that have meaning and expressiveness.
100% mate and I am really glad we are starting to dive deeper into this on the forum. Really important stuff and your contribution is so appreciated. (words and images)
An enjoyable and thought provoking vlog as always.
I'd happily take the gifted unknown but think that to be in that position you have to have the belief in what you're doing is good. I think that understanding and belief is more than self confidence and that's what I believe I lack (and talent obviously!)
Without that self belief where can validation come from if not some form of popularity or acceptance?
I'm waffling again,
This is a comment that has way more depth than you give it credit for. We need to understand when we ourselves fail in the execution of craft, but in terms of creativity, an understanding of ourselves and what we have to say is invaluable in terms of believing in our aesthetics. I lived in an illusion of popularity for a decade and allowed that to tarnish my own preference and articulation of that belief. All I can say is this, break the mould, be you
I can see where you are coming from…self belief in your own work is indeed very difficult if you do not have external validation of some sort…
@@Alister_Benn one thing I can say is that I am being me and secondly, through a combination of many things I am only interested in shooting locally, even devoting this whole year to one particular two and a half mile stretch of the Caithness coast. Next weekend going to FW to the exhibition in the Lime tree, I won't even take the camera!
I believe in my current output but not in my ability to judge it neutrally without the tainted memory of being there.
Hey Ho
Hi Alister. I’m partway through the video and a question just arose in my mind. You imply that you are not driven by popularity at this stage of your development, but do you think that may, in part, be because you have achieved that? Would you be the photographer you are now (quieter scenes) if you did not have that success? Apologies if you answer this later in the video. I’m interested to know! Thanks again for everything.
I have a certain popularity, but way less than many other photographers I know. I need to be true to myself, I need to feel as if I am adding value to our art and society.
These may be lofty goals, but I hear a lot of frustrating talk from photographers looking for their own path and their own voice. Following the herd is not going to do that. To be honest with you; making a living as a photographer is hard, every month we need sales to pay our bills, let alone saving some for the future.
Could I make more money if I sold out, probably, but I won't.
We should all aim to be the best version of ourselves.
@@Alister_Benn this is just the kind of response I was expecting! You are leading an ever growing wave of expressive photographers, Alister. You should be very proud of the impact you are having. Take care, Ross.
I need "guifted". But it is not what I do for a living... I feel that to have a good eye to spot a nice image and the talent to replicate this perception is most valuable.
I feel that an interesting nature's photography need to show only or mostly romantic traits. It needs to be docile and give hope just like conception.
And it is not necessarily what is popular in the public. For conception is not done in public. Or to suggest it in public is not seen well! But more importantly, such docile images are not going to receive thumbs up as much in a public venue for it is not the time and place!
In a public exposition, people expect more vivid and striking novelty. Peuple are bombarded with strong contrasting colors constantly. We can't blame them! The gas station have full shelves of multicolor bag of chips in display 24/7 in their front windows! By the way, these bags of chips are actually a millar with a car paint literally!
There is no way to find the most perfect rose to photograph and get their attention... I also noted that nature is very abused. It is in a state at the other pole of romantic. Sure there is still some left for their are still new nest every spring. Yet it is not to the standards that it could at all. For exemple, we have a migrating bird estuary where I live. Their used to be swan comming there. But one day, someone decided that it was fun to go and break all the eggs. We never saw these magnificent bird there again. The Vancouver island where I am, also clear cut forest very intensively. They grow mostly baby forest of Douglas fir. They cut them at 36 years of age while they live to 1300 years... And when they do they destroy all that is in the understory. Now the swan that was there is not comming back next year either... Now these are the huge romantic scares we need to deal with in photography... So yep one need a lot of "guifted"!
It is a difficult question to figure out. I feel that we need to evolve past the strict photograph to achive a larger public. I think post processing need to pull the picture some more into pop culture. I begin to think that we need to tweek the photograph to the point of expressing what is mystic about it. Like attemting to touch it's subconscious existence, but without making it up... Which is probably impossible. For if the material World is under attack, the spiritual existence still holds alot of sharm.
I had a bad young bald eagle picture that I turned into a Maryline Monroe pop art at some point!! Even if it was actually a bad idea, it makes one think!!
th-cam.com/video/ZF257kiG5dI/w-d-xo.html
That's a pretty cool piece of art right there :-) Expression and creativity don't need a script or a rule book...
Being popular is like having a new car: it's awesome for two days.
I'm an amateur so being popular isn't a necessity for me. I'd rather be happy with who and what I am.
Brilliant and unknown. If I was photographing to earn an income, I'd work to make it popular while being as creative as possible.
That's the trick.. :-)
I'd rather be brilliant and unknown, given my almost dozens of followers I think I'm well on my way. ;-D
That said I would like to develop a trickle of income from photography (as art).
I’d love to be brilliant rather than popular but if I was brilliant I’d probably be popular with the people that matter to me
Ah, a twist ❤️ nice take
I would always want to be gifted… reality is I’m not
Haha, I think most people feel like that buddy