Hi Lawrence, love your work! This is a bit random but I was wondering if you had seen any grantstevensmma on TH-cam? He's really cool, taekwondo base > martial arts tricking. Amazingly athletic, incredible technique and good coaching with some other um interesting beliefs. Id love to hear what you think of martial arts tricking. If you see this and you feel so inclined let me know
It's 100% true that low kicks require less skill and athleticism than higher or even spinning kicks. Pointing a gun and pulling the trigger also requires much less skill than hitting something with a bow, and no one questions which of the two is more effective. In the end, it is only about what works and is more efficient, what ends the fight more quickly.
Exactly. Most people have no idea that even in the era of "knights" they constantly practiced not just with their weapons, but in WRESTLING. Most fights between knights that ended in death didn't happen from getting a lance through the chest, or an arrow through the eye holes. The way most knights died in combat was terrifying, and brutal. In war, most of the time they were mobbed and pinned down while some of the people attacking them used daggers to stab them in places the armor doesn't protect - under the armpits, in the guts where the chest armor ends, in the neck, through the eye, etc. In single combat, it was extremely rare for someone to die from an attack via sword, axe, halberd, etc. Again, it came down to losing a wrestling match, and having a dagger plunged into some unprotected areas. Even in armor, the better martial artist wins.
Spinning kicks seem way more risky too. If you don't land it you've possibly left yourself wide open or even worse allowed yourself to fall down or be taken down
not really, because people do not run with a bow in Ukraine right now... TK is not a BS, but as said in the video, it is incomplite if compared to other sports like Muay Thai, boks or BJJ.
Who cares what something "looks" like, spinning kicks look "good" but all of these theatrics keep you open. You might as well say ballet is great. Muay Thai is powerful, straight to the point. And I low kick checked can cause a lot of damage. Low Kicks require talent and technique, just as all the theatrical spinning, drop kicks.
It all boils down to actually fighting. TKD is about scoring points, MT is about physically beating someone into submission. It should be obvious which one is superior in an actual fight.
Correct. TKD is a sport where MT is a fight. MT stresses on beating and taking punishment which involves a lot of pain and the test if you have the heart to win.
@@leezap It was originally designed to be an art for war. The current version is considered to be a toned down version for sport already. Muay Thai is deadly. I guess Jujitsu is the only school of martial arts which is effective to some extent against Muay Thai.
Yup, same thing with Karate. When I was in highschool, I did Karate for 3 years at a reputable dojo. I found myself getting tired of it because I realized that I wasn't actually fighting. It was mostly katas and some weapon forms. And even on the few days we would actually spar, it was point-based, and it was limited side movement (you can only throw a side kick, an overhand knife-hand to the temple, a back fist, or a punch from the hip). It didn't make any sense to me, and I thought "No one in the real world actually fights like this". I honestly wish I went into Muay Thai from the get-go, but there were only karate dojos around and I didn't really know any better at the time.
One misconcept is that MT doesnt have round back kick. Actually it does. Its call Chorakae-Fad-Hang (meaning Crocodile moves its tail). It's one of the fan fovorite move and known for its force in MT as well. but it isnt used very often in MT fight because of its drawback if not successfully landed
most people don't know that there are multiple styles of muay thai , 1:Muay Femur , 2: Muay Khao , 3: muay mud , 4: muay sok , 5: muay plam and ,6 : muay farang , now almost all muay thai gyms mix all these together .
They completely nerfed the Muay Thai fighter leaving him only with kicks and punches... and then afterwards complained that he only used low kicks. But they forgot about the conditioning and underestimated the kicks and so Rufus got kicked into the hospital. But much respect for them actually taking the steps to learn about Muay Thai and came to respect it.
Removing/leaving out the TDK point system doesn't take away any of the techniques the TKD fighter can use. And in the end even these fights are won/lost on points or (T)KO, just not on how pretty/difficult your kicks are. It was a fighting match not ice skating. With the Rufus fight what they did (and still often do) is remove all (of what they thought were) the most powerful techniques from the MT fighter's arsenal (knees, elbows, headbuts, throws, tackles). So they nerfed the MT fighter but not the TKD fighter. But they underestimated the power of the MT low kick... So the MT fighter basically destroyed the best TDK fighter and his full arsenal with just one technique, the strength and will power of a giant and lots of heart. Rufus fought like a lion and with an equal amount of heart but his legs gave out.
I have trained TKD for 4 years, and Muay Thai for 8 years. I think the differences are these. 1. TKD wastes too much time doing worthless patterns, breaking boards and other things that doesn't help you in a combat situation. Muay Thai fighters only train to win in ring; technique, conditioning, strength and sparring was all we ever did. 2. TKD is extremely specialized. The kicks are very good, and TKD fighters can be very dangerous with the legs at a distance. At close range, the lack of boxing/clinching skills becomes a serious problem. Muay Thai utilizes all 8 limbs and has standing grappling and throws. No matter the distance or type of (standing) fight, Muay Thai has an answer to that. 3. Conclusion: Because of more relevant training and the ability to easily exploit the weaknesses of TKD, Muay Thai will defeat TKD almost every single time.
@nicholasgreen339 Muay Thai with a regular system of scoring will still be Muay Thai. Take away elbows, knees, etc., and it becomes a different sport (kickboxing).
Props to my first TKD instructor for also training us in boxing basics. His father was a boxer in the Army and taught him after he lost his first TKD tournament. When I see TKD schools training now I always feel like something is missing.
I was fortunate to have a TKD instructor who knew boxing and judo. I agree most TKD guys are not prepared for intense punches - I think there is too much emphasis on kicks. And most instructors don't emphasize getting off the center line, especially if your opponent is taller.
@LawrenceKenshin "If Mike Tyson was a Muay Thai fighter, he would say that every Taekwondo fighter has a plan until they get kicked to the legs." I laughed so damn hard at that. So true, and so funny 😂
who let thier legs get kicked and be fine vs real martial artiststs. do you even know how to take a kick to leg? lmfao sounds like you don't and you don't know what you are talking about.
@@Crestfallen-jc6mu but actually, i train my calves as a tkd player. like a kick cannot dmg them easily. I condition them regularly. So i can maintain balance and it wont do much dmg
My old head coach Duke Roufus. Young Duke. Dropped his pride and moved to Thailand to train. Became one of the best heavyweight champions in muay thai and kb.
Your channel got me into Muay Thai. Thank you 🙏 Love the low kick. I don't know why some people don't use them more during their sparring sessions. Gotta love the low lead kick when facing a Southpaw and then building from that
The reason even conditioned fighters don't low kick frequently in sparring is the same reason you don't elbow the face frequently in sparring- you'd want two injury-free athletes to come back for the next session.
The first martial art I learned was Taekwondo in my late teens. I loved the athleticism and the variety of high-risk high-reward kicks. One day a good friend of mine and I decided to spar. He was practicing Hapkido, another Korean martial art. He lit me up with his hands. TKD is so heavily focused on the legs that we never learned how to defend or throw a punch properly. A couple of years later I was exposed to Muay Thai. I watched the exhibition fights and I was hooked. MT techniques are powerful, practical and brutally efficient. As time went on and responsibilities changed, I stopped training but I would hit the bag when I could at the gym. Fast forward to 2 years ago and I wanted to get my son in martial arts. The closest school to us is an Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate dojo. I wanted my 6-year-old to have a base to start his journey and this fit the bill. After 6 months of watching his classes the martial arts bug bit me hard. I arrogantly went into the first few classes thinking that my MT background gave me an edge over my peers. I learned very quickly that OGR Karate is not the points based style you see on TV. Many of the stances and strikes are remarkably similar to MT. My MT background gave me a head start on learning the techniques since they are so similar: kicks, knees, elbows and punches. I’ve also been able to utilize some of the kicks I learned in TKD since these are part of the OGR techniques. Our classes have included some jiujitsu and I’m finding myself really drawn to it. I think I’m going to be looking for a school, soon. My martial arts journey has been an interesting one, but my heart still belongs to MT.
i kinda mixed TKD and boxing. theres still the funny spinnies but there are also like rolls and head guarding. mixing Peek a Boo guard with TKD is lowkey hilarious
Sounds like your buddy had a proper Hapkido dojang. Hapkido takes a lot of the old power kicks from traditional TKD. Modern TKD unfortunately sacrificed technique and power for speed ever since it became an Olympic sport. If you slow it down and really work the techniques how they should be done, instead of the shortcuts for speed, you can turn those slap kicks into very powerful kicks. I love Hapkido but it is hard to find a dojang that isn't complete BS. If you aren't worried about getting hurt when you first get there and learn how to breakfall, probably not a good school. If people aren't getting slammed with modified judo throws with joint locks, probably not proper hapkido. If they don't have at least Judo Newaza level ground work, not worth your time. Oh, and if they aren't teaching boxing at least at the basic level... you already know. Hapkido really is meant to be a mixed martial art before MMA was a thing.
@@BionicBurke thank you for the great info. My friend was training at Eagle Hapkido in Toronto. The founder is Grandmaster Hwang In Shik. I have no doubt you know who that legend is. I had the privilege of attending Siam No. 1 in Toronto, the first Muay Thai school in Canada. The founder is another legend, Ajahn Suchart Yodkerepauprai. Many highly successful nak muay farang’s came out of that school including Clifton Brown and Simon Marcus. I was lucky enough to receive training by the former and trained with the later. Bear in mind, this was over 20 years ago!
To be fair, Goju ryu is known for being one of the deadliest and toughest styles of karate…. Seriously, those people, at a high level, can kill with their thumbs
As a Taekwondo practitioner when I was a teenager, as soon as I saw Muay Thai I knew I would get crushed by one of these fighters. The style is just nice and simple, especially those simple leg kicks. Love both arts but yeah Muay Thai just works haha. Edit: I think it's cool to have both (having those surprising hooking kicks and back kicks in your arsenal helped me with some knockouts 😇 You take what you can get from each style).
They both have something to offer. I transitioned to Muay Thai too, and I always felt that the strong kicking base (even after adjusting to Muay Thai) gave me an advantage.
Muay Thai was created to fight in "wars" according to historical records. It is an art used to kill enemies on the battlefield. warrior uses sword to fight but if your sword slips from your hand, you have to use Muay Thai to kill your opponent. Nowadays, as time has passed, Muay Thai has been used in sports competitions, has more rules and is safer. But it still felt dangerous Divided into 4 categories: 1.) Muay Lopburi The highlight of this type of boxing is the quick and accurate punches. Quickly use punches, feet, knees, and elbows 2.) Muay Korat The highlight of this type of boxing is punching. The sting is very powerful. The punches are wide, violent and include a technique known as the "11 Problem Solving" 3.) Muay Chaiya This type of boxing has a total of 7 moves. The highlight of this type of boxing is Throwing your opponent to the ground (similar to MMA) 4.) Muay Tha Sao (Muay Phraya Phichai) The highlight of this type of boxing is that the punches can be far, fast and violent. There are 15 punching moves, 10 kicking moves, 10 knee strikes and 10 elbow strikes
In Muaythai we also do spinning back kick when we miss the kick called (จระเข้ฟาดหาง) or back push kick called (กวางเหลี่ยวหลัง) to protect our back just like spinning back elbow called (หิรัญม้วนแผ่นดิน) we considered all of these as a trick to knock out and call it (ลูกไม้) in Muaythai
at My Perspective points as Observer: I agree Taekwondo as More into it for support at least for defender on the Street. Muay Thai More Than Lethal Weapon either in the Ring or on the Street.
Taekwondo heavily relies on foot work and mobility. Once you start attacking the legs, all of that becomes far more difficult to pull off. Same if you throw a boxer in a kickboxing match. A boxer won't be able to move and plant their weight properly if the kickboxer keeps attacking their legs.
not really. fancy stuff are from sell out versions. if you don't know how to take hits to legs and take damage then you had bad teachers. depending on the person landing hit on the legs are extremely hard. especially they learned hapkido on top of it which most Koreans learn before 2 years of mendetory military. after most of them turn into dads who works in the office because of how south Korea is but dont' get mixed up with sell out taekwondo.
Interesting enough, when I trained in Thailand I was surprised at how much we trained kicking to the body instead of low, coming from a background of MMA training. Low kicks do not score in Muay Thai (though they did still train them and they still valued them for the damage they do at the gym I visited.)
Low kicks do indeed score in Thailand, but they score lower than body kicks and high kicks. Some fighters like Teerapong Kaeowisaet will end lots of fights with low kicks.
Taekwondo is about forms with most not used to using full power bcoz it is not allowed during competition. Muay thai is about real life fighting skills...it is about survival not just getting fancy belts
True it is about not using full power I trained in tkd for about 9 years and quit when I got my black belt because taekwondo on its own is as this video explains incomplete it’s more about the art form but instead if you add and combine other forms of martial arts you can become a fierce opponent I think what taekwondo teaches is the flow of combinations and also teaches the versatility of movement
It's the art of war, there is a whole story behind the art so it's about using your body as a weapon because the Thai Warriors had no weapons, the captains and the generals head sticks and swords on horses but the Warriors had little to no Weaponry so they had to use their bodies As Weapons against the burmese, muay Boran ❤❤❤
@@SAMEntalhealth Uh, no. Even the worst standing army in 1400's would at least be to field simple spears for every foot soldier. And now we're talking about kingdoms that were contantly at wars with their neighbors, they wouldn't be stupid enough to spend all the money on swords and guns for a few nobles while the peasants use their hands. Search up their structure organization, they had spearmen, bowmen, swordmen, musketeers just like in other regions.
That boy crying about his brother losing that fight at the start somehow failed to mention that they handicapped the Muay Thai fighter not allowing him to use the clinch, knees, or elbows. If they had allowed that the fight would have been over much sooner and the dude would have had even more to cry about.
NO..that is NOT accurate. They did not actually handicap him. The Thai fighter, Changpuek, agreed to fight Rick Rufus in a Kickboxing match, in the Karate International Council of Kickboxing organization (K.I.C.K.). It was Western style Kickboxing match, NOT a Muay Thai match. The K.I.C.K. organization, along with damn near every other Western style Kickboxing organization at the time, being NOT Muay Thai, had a different rule set from Muay Thai. A rule set that did not allow for knees, elbows, clinching, and throws. Most of Western Kickboxing organizations didn't even allow for low kicks. All kicks had to be above the belt. If anything, an exception was made for Changpuek so he could throw low kicks. People talk like they made elbow, knees, and clinching illegal specifically for that fight, in order to handicap Changpuek, and that is simply not true. One of the main reasons why Changpuek agreed to fight under the rule set of the K.I.C.K. organization was to prove that even with elbows, knees, and clinching being illegal, that Muay Thai was still superior to Western style Kickboxing. He was eager to show Western style Kickboxing that even under a rule set that limited what he could attack with, that his Muay Thai was still better. Saying "they handicapped him" is completely disingenuous, and makes it seem like it was something malicious that was purposely done to Changpuek to put him at a disadvantage. And to be honest, saying that does a disservice to Changpuek and his level of skill and accomplishments as a 7 time World Champion. Because he was NEVER at a disadvantage. And he proved that.
As someone who started with taekwondo, I learned first hand the brutality of Mt. I was sparring against the guy that got me into MT. He kicked me in the middle of a spinning back kick. GF had to massage my leg for 2 hours. I dropped TKD after that. I've done several styles, even boxing and GR wrestling. Once iwnas profiecent in Mt I was amazed how easy it was to win against average fighters like myself. We used to have open style, all in sparring matches. After 2 or 3 blocks with my shins, most didn't want to throw kicks at me.
Muaythai break your shin bone in micro fragments and reinforced it to be thicker and stronger untill you can break a baseball bat and banana tree like Buakow seriously take a look at Tawanchai 😂
@@nightclawer6679 Recently i found out about Tawanchai that guy is terrifyng i never see a fighter like him, his striking adn brutality in fight is terrifiyng
Its what you are taught when you start muay thai, panicking will cause your demise. Even after a punch to the face and a kick to the shin, you have to remain calm and collected
To be honest most of the taekwondo schools that I know of in Los Angeles as early as the 80s were already mixing boxing with their taekwondo Philip Rhee ,jun chong hee IL Cho etc
MT is continually evolving as it's continued to be stress tested by every generation of practitioners. MT fighters start at an extremely young age and some can begin their pro careers with more fights under their belts than some pros of other arts end their career with.
I knew a cocky tkd guy who went to my gym. I'm a Muay Thai fighter myself. He kept telling me what he would do to me in sparring, putting Muay Thai down. He had a miscommunication that they only have a body round kick ,a push kick, and only kick to the body with no high kicks or low kicks. I was like what world are you living in. He ended up being defeated by me in sparring only ending up getting his ego destroyed and quitting the gym. I also want to add I love tkd myself as it was the first art I started with, cool kicks and you can definitely add some to Muay Thai to make it more versatile 🙏
Something similar happened here: I have a TKD and Muay Thai background, and this arrogant Karate blackbelt came to our Muay Thai gym and wanted to spar. We were about the same weight, but I was the taller fighter. I had only trained Muay Thai for a couple of years, but I just closed the distance hit him in the face and put him in the Thai clinch, where he was utterly helpless.
he proved what a clon he was , instead of staying and exepting defeat and asking you to train him so he can become better instead he ran of like the cocky little sht he was but did you meet him again to speak to him or did he never apear again cause maybe he's changes his aditude .
You don't have to practice Taekwondo to kick well, :) all you need to do is get a black belt in Kyokushin Karate, and then learn Muay thai and Boxing, and then no Taekwondo fighter will beat you in a stand-up fight. :) :D
as a person who trains Taekwondo for 2 years, i can say this video is true.. so that's why i learn muay thai also for second martial arts to complete the martial arts style.
@@darkerpathgo and learn it in north korean if your country have diplomatic relations see the different between wtf south korean and itf north korean Choi Hong Hi Is Founder Of Taekwondo But Defect To North Korean,Because They Destroy His Martial Art
honestly, ive seen some taekwondo competition and a lot of them are just about scoring points, not taking on opponents. quick strikes just to score. meaning theyre not really fighting. meanwhile, almost all muay thai ive seen are fights or simulates a fight. that alone shows the quality of the discipline in terms of combat. not to mention how versatile muaythai is. its so nice to watch an in-depth video about this.
Point fighting and full-contact are just two different (controlled) fighting environments and both are valid, but develop different skills. Both are necessary and beneficial to every martial artist.
@leonardomarquesbellini the point is, taekwondo is more of a point based sport which developed as such. While muay thai is developed to be a more comlpete martial art. Never said one was invalid but its clear which method of gaining experience is much more effective IN TERMS OF COMBAT.
@@CutzMcOnions of course, I don't disagree that combat sports are better at ring fighting. It's what they train for, after all. Someone that never trained full contact or ,in the context of this video, a Taekwondo practicioner that only ever did WTF rules competition is never going to perform well in a ring or cage, they have no experience with that. I just think it's important not to go too far and just completely disregard completely the kinds of valuable lessons practicing point fighting like you have in sport Taekwondo or Karate. That competion format is much better than full-contact at developing speed, quick thinking, reflexes, foresight and distance management skills, all of which are important to a fighter. As a bonus it's also way less taxing on the body, so you can train it more often than full-contact without putting an expiration date on yourself (for example I know some Dutch Kickboxing guys that even without ever stepping into a ring were forced to quit under 10 years of training because they couldn't take it anymore). If it's all you ever do then you'll be incomplete, but a martial artist that never does it isn't complete either. In my opinion training itself should be about 3/4 point fighting and 1/4 full-contact, and for all but the professional athletes that can affordable to wreck their bodies for cash prizes we should try to compete in both formats as often as possible. There's just too much good stuff to learn to just throw it all away.
@@leonardomarquesbellini im gonna be honest im not reading all that. keep it within the context of my comment and within a few lines. im not in youtube to read your thesis.
The core thing in Muay Thai is to be humble and discipline. Muay Thai fighter is never get cocky. When they in the ring they have some fun with the fight and be respect to others fighter across the ring.
When I started Muay Thai, I thought fighting was just two things: Fatigue and pain. We learn how to manage both. I had no idea there was a meditative side of martial arts like how Karate and Taekwondo have. For as brutal as Muay Thai is, I kinda want some of that relaxing stuff too. But there is a traditional dance that comes with Muay Thai, that part is kind of relaxing.
I do Maui Thai and can say it is hard as it it looks you got to condition every part of your body just to stand a chance and while we don’t have spinning kicks our kicks are designed for pain not show
*Muay Thai* ~ _Fighting_ *Taekwondo* ~ _Sport_ The finer details are expounded upon in this excellent *Striking Breakdown* video by *Lawrence Kenshin.*
@@ggstatertots Sports are athletic contests and/or games that people play. Fighting is something different. Example: Amateur boxing is a sport, where the competitors attempt to score points. Professional boxing can be a sport, unless/until one (or both) of the boxers decides to make it a fight; then it becomes a fight, whether the other boxer wants it to be or not. A boxer cannot force his opponent to box with him but he can force him to fight.
@@fruitylerlups530 It is hard and/or inappropriate to categorize professional Muay Thai as a sport. Sports are games that people play. An eleven (11) year old "kid" fighting for money to feed his family is not a game and they are not playing.
@@John.Flower.Productionsmuay thai is a sport with the rule however without the rule of game then mauy thai is killing combat (muay thai actually comes from war)
Joe said it's a sport and the moment you put sport rules into an art it dilutes its fighting competentance. Taekwondo is just another victim of that. Touch Points based competitions creates weak fighters. That's another reason the only karate allowed should be kyokushin
Kyokushin would work better if allowed gloves, mouthguards and head strikes. It also fails in MT matchups a lot because Kyokushin guys dont aim for the head aside from kicks. MT guys do with kick, punches, and elbows. But aside from that, Kyokushin guys are hard as a bag of nails.
@@shkotayd9749 indeed agreed, some of the best kickboxers came from kyokushin backgrounds. Literally mixed it with a bit of boxing and bam you have a proper monster. Ie Andy Hugg for example.
@@DP-dd6hl Yep. The style itself has to be adapted quite a bit. I liked MT most because you just had to get a boxing background which could easily be worked in and didnt require really any big fundamental changes. Kyokushinkai was pretty close in that respect as well.
@@DP-dd6hl never tried it lol. But I would like to see a review of Savate some time. I have to tell you having sparred a couple savate guys years ago, shoe sparring and getting TOES to the ribs reinforced with shoes hurt. A LOT lol.
A lot of people misunderstand Muay Thai at first glance. They think it's a kick and punch and knee and elbow. It is not, at the core. Muay Thai is a martial art that is about throwing hit and taking hit. It's a street fight material to the core.
41:00 At the end of the video when you're discussing effective kicks, I had the image of Samart Payakaroon just toying with people with his teep and side teep. There's no doubt in my mind that Samart had the best distance management of any Muay Thai fighter (which makes sense because he wasn't the most durable fighter).
When I was in my late teens I studied Okinawa karate. At tournaments I would always beat the tae kwon do practitioner bc I knew all they would do is kick. So I either timed their kicks or stayed too close for them to kick. Not saying I was the best out there or the level we were at was super high, but it’s nice knowing ahead of time what they would do.
Both in Karate style and kickboxing style competitions I had that same experience. It was easy to predict a tkd fighter. You get inside their kicks and beat them with punches and you can dominate them. and in karate we have most of the same kicks, but we are more balanced between kicking and punching than TKD is. Add in the boxing that we combined with karate, it is really easy to take on a traditional tkd fighter. That why I would always tell my TKD friends to take some boxing to compliment their kicks
As a youngster I did muay thai and then my parents got divorced. I moved a long with my mom the a rural town that only had a karate/taekwondo club. So I was like whatever, but as city boy who did muay thai I got a lot of attention from all the kids and some older kid with a brown or black belt who thought he was some kinda alpha kid, didn't like that and challenged me. He actually did 3 times and 3 times I whooped his butt, then I became the alpha kid 🤣 Good old days haha
The problem is not the Taekwondo but the fighter. Many Taekwondo fighters are very hard,many Taekwondo fighters know how to low kick and block low kicks and many of then are training boxe.
That was always the problem I had with most traditional martial arts, rarely teaching their students how to take a punch. Props to my TaeKwonDo instructor Byung Yul Lee. Would always line us up against the wall and have the other class punch us without being able to defend ourselves.mWould always give us real world experieces as well including rooted stances and low kicks. It was always no holds barred with the expect the unexpected philosophy. Made me appreciate my training when I went up against MT fighters. Sure I can stilldo all that fancy looking stuff...even at 57, but to me it was always about practicality, not looking pretty. The fancy stuff was always saved for when I had people on the "rope" already. Part of the problem with MOST TKD schools, is that they train for tournament and point fighting. That was always second in Lee's school, first was the real world.
I loved this deep dive into strikes. It does make you wonder if different martial arts train against each other what new art might surge into prominence. Also clearly conditioning should always be a must, but I did always consider if you are fighting a form that relies on only a specific attack weapon, feet or legs or wrestling, then you simply insure you attack a specific form in a way that is not known by the given form, but it also begs the question if you did stay to one form and condition it to defense or counters against other forms, could the puritan excel with their given form?
Excellent video!!! Awesome footage and research. I really, really, really liked this topic 🙂 I train Muay Thai, but I am a big fan of elegant and powerful taekwondo kicks. I also use sidekicks and spinning backkicks. I am working on the tornado kick now. I believe that training complex kicks is simply good for the body and overall flexibility. The more background you have, the more options you get in a fight. And for sparring, it is simply fun to sometimes throw an extravagant kick 🙂
Practice high kicks too. The reason for that is building muscles you don't use in mid or low kicks. If you can break 3 or more boards stacked together at 7 feet high, imagine how powerful your mid low kicks become.
ITF Taekwondo practitioner here. Our training involved a lot of boxing routines and body conditioning. Similar to what you saw in the second part of the video. Traditional ITF taekwondo is pretty solid. By year two (I was 21 at the time) we were invited to participate in Sanda competitions and were training take downs, counter wrestling take downs, adding knees in the mix. The tournament was quite bloody. Having a solid TKD base and adding grappling and boxing in the mix will make you a tough fighter.
I got to red belt in Tae Kwon Do and i will say im damn good even now with my legs. BUT atleast for me i was never a cocky fighter in the dojo or out of it. When i was at college i ran into a Muy Tai practictioner we had some drinks and we both wanted to spar. We both set rules and the spar was damn awsome! If i kept him at bay with legs i did have advantage but once he clenched i was done, bastard almost knocked me out with a close knee and i almost knocked him with a kick. It was amazing to see the difference in skills the arts taught us. We werent mad, we respected what was dished to each other, took a breather and continued on. Ill definitely say i lost the bout hand down, i got him twice out of 10. After that night i had alot of respect for my friend and his art, and he did for mine. It really taught me that if they get close to clench you, youre kinda fucked, Tae Kwon Do never really tuaght me how to work with suche a close opponent. Miss that dude!
Spinning kicks from TKD are gorgeous but.... just ineffective in a real life situations. Nobody wins Streetfights by breaking boards and throwing tornado kicks.
just like any technique, they are effective if you know how to use them. And if u search far enough, there's a few who beated a random street thug with a spinning back kick.
You can win a street fight with any kick if you throw it fast enough. Key points are good timing and enough space. But tbf stuff like full power roundhouse or low kicks are already overkill for an average person lmao
Ive knocked out people with a spinning wheel kick or what we call it as reverse hook kick here where i am. Absolutely right bout the hand. In tkd, its used to balance the body to throw those kicks. Had a hard time getting my hands up when transiting into MMA. But the judgement of distance, covering the distance and counter attacks from tkd kicks are 2nd to none. But fast forward 2023, my kids will do MT and Judo 😂....I'll teach them tkd kicks. No need to go for formal classes for tkd.😊
" Rules didn’t allow him to win.." reminds of a Dallas fan yelling .."we woulda won, if they (Packers) hadn’t scored so many touch downs." I never forgot that logic.
I’ve never trained in Taekwondo but my first coach. In his practice he often mixes traditional K1 Muay Thai stuff with some Taekwondo things. That’s where I got f.e. my axe kick from. It’s often scares people who aren’t used to it.
Be careful with that. My friend is a 4th degree kickboxing blackbelt, and he ripped the hamstring so bad that he has permanent pain. I stopped doing that kick many years ago. ;)
It’s because Muay Thai is the more practical and efficient fighting system. Don’t fear the man that’s practiced 1,000 kicks, but fear the man that has practiced 1 kick 1,000 times - Bruce Lee. Yes, taekwondo is more flashy. But in Muay Thai you practice simple efficient kicks and build up to deliver devastating power on repeat. You condition your shins to take and deliver damage… it’s basically the more efficient damage delivery fighting platform… it doesn’t try to impress… it does its job.
Joe is also talking about 80s TKD, not modern TKD. 80s TKD was an excellent kicking basis for kickboxing as competitors from that era combined their "base" martial art with boxing. Other arts like Wing Chun or Karate had hand techniques that were completely replaced by boxing, so in that sense 80s TKD was the best TMA to combine with boxing. Now we have BJJ+MT which is generally considered to be the best combo. Times change.
Thank you. It not often that people acknowledge that this information is based of the 70s and 80s. By the mid 80 kickboxers have included low kicks competition and conditioning, as well as training for the K-1 rule set.
I started with Kung Fu and quickly transitioned into Muay Thai. I used to think I was a little badass in highschool and got ragdolled by one of the wrestlers lmao now I just have an overall MMA style but I favor my striking still
I would hope that your Videos put an effect on Taekwondo practitioners and Dojos to implement full contact Sparring and making it a more prevalent practice in their regimens.
I am just laughing, thinking of what Joe said that the left hook didn’t really hurt, but his legs stopped working. I remember taking a few shots although the shots hurt, there was a disconnect between my brain and my legs and I just could not get them to move. It is funny hearing his description of it because that is exactly how I felt.
As someone that’s been involved with tkd (and then later on many other martial arts) for a decade, I can honestly say I’ve never met an intermediate-advanced tkd practitioner that was not an arrogant hypocrite. Somethings I have heard from multiple practitioners include: “you cannot compare martial arts” then they’ll turn right around and say “but TaeKwondo is the most superior martial art”. After I started judo, bjj, and Muay Thai and I told my best friend and uncle (both tkd black belts) that bjj is superior to tkd insofar-as fighting ability, even after I sparred, took down, and tapped out both of them after 4 months of bjj they told me the only reason I thought bjj was better because “I’m biased toward bjj” which makes absolutely no sense since I started tkd with both of them. Tkd has an incredible cult like atmosphere. I’ve been to probably 6 tkd schools along the east coast of the US as well as discussed with many other practitioners online and every one of them without exception unless if they learned a real martial art, all of them had a superiority complex
I practice JKA karate, and i love it and have competitive goals. However, i do want to be a good fighter overall and started crosstraining in boxing. I like my fast and snappy side and questionmark kicks and thought the lack of close range hand skills was the biggest lack of karate. I never thought the stance would matter that much. Needless to say i have never recieved a leg kick... Maybe i should give muay thai a try
Good idea! Leg kicks are one thing; elbows, knees, clinch and throws are big parts of Muay Thai. If we were to spar, I would quickly recognize your good kicks and boxing skills, so I would try to close the distance and put you in the thai clinch, where I could use throws, arm traps, elbows and knees.
Depends what TKD you learn. I studied under The Chun Do Kwon association in the 90s and early 2000s, they purposely taught us knee and elbow strikes as well as incorporated Hapkido into the training to make us more well rounded fighters.
Yeah I trained in the TAGB and back then they also taught us to use knees and elbows, it was more like old school Karate I guess. Still, we didn't train full contact so I would have still got owned without cross-training, hah.
If you trained tae kwon do to win a tkd championship, you'll become "weak". They get point just by touching the body protector with soft kick. Another example, for the sake of getting easy point too, when practicing deol chagi (the shovel kick?), instead of practicing to use the heel, they'll use the tip of the feet though using the heel is more destructive since they can get more reach by using the tip. Suggestion for people who love tkd's kicks, train it as hard as it should be, as if we're going to kill some one with the techniques, as how the muathay boxer have been practicing theirs. And use your fists too. Note: I trained tkd for a couple of years when I was in the high school, and then in the college, but I don't want my kids to join any dojang. I prefer them to learn kempo, judo, kyokushinkai, or wushu instead, and then teach them some tkd techniques into their arsenal. Tae kwon do is a great martial arts. It's the organization who ruin it.
TKD is just flashy imo. A lot of spinning kicks. It seems they prioritize those quick kicks and spinning kicks more than efficiency and power. Muay Thai is straight forward plus they implement striking with your hands, elbows and knees making it more complete than TKD. In a real fight(sparring ) all i use from TKD is the front side kick, spinning back kick and sometimes that spinning hurricane kick. But it's always about timing and setting up when to use it. So i save it as an unexpected move to mix it up a bit besides the side kicks. So basically everything else it's straight kickboxing/Muay Thai/boxing. Imo Ramon Dekkers is the style I'm going for. Explosiveness, speed and power. Boxing mixed in with lethal low kicks is my go to. In the hands department is where tkd fails. It messes up their strategies for setting up kicks. And the clinch work. Long story short. It's incomplete but not useless.
I think that when someone who is good at taekwondo knows how to defend against boxing and clinch they become very scary. I really enjoy practicing Muay Thai. Such a noble art. That body conditioning is hard like you mentionned too. However I was surprising myself with some spinning attack that came naturally. I was wondering if they would have great impact in the motion as I only practice for my pleasure at home. This video was an eye opener with the australian Vick. Damn he was so fluid in his motion. I really liked watching him. Never heard of him before... Black Bruce Lee was devastating too but I wasn't that into his way of moving. This is scary! Be water my friend. So true! 👏
I saw this comparison first hand when I was young, I had a classmate who was doing TKD he's was one of the best in our school. He was tough but cocky. One day in the canteen my classmate being big and cocky accidentally bumped into a a student younger than us spilling his food, and my classmate being him refused to apologize. The younger student was noticeably smaller than my classmate then it got heated and you know the "I'll see you after class" things we said when we were young. They went at the back of the school my classmate was cocky since he had longer reach and he knew how to kick. But when the younger student got in close he immediately ripped my classmates lips, eyebrows, and broke his nose. Around 8 punches to the face he was lying on the floor full of "ketchup". The younger student just suffered a very bruised right thigh. Turns out he was a son of a boxing instructor.
The fact that many of the striking arts gauge themselves to Thai fighters to see their effectiveness shows that Muay Thai was the standard. Muay Thai is the base striking art of MMA along with boxing. Muay Thai is adaptive. It was different in the past but has since evolved to incorporate techniques and training methods of other arts.
I did Taekwondo for 2 years in my teens. The following problems might explain why it's not as effective: 1) you don't learn the most effective techniques which are theoretically part of it because they are considered too dangerous - like knee and elbow techniques. They are included in the books, just not taught by the coaches. 2) it's often not trained to actually fight. More like a stylized type of gymnastics. 3) many of the kicks leave you wide open to counter attacks. 4) theoretically TWD includes all the techniques that MT also has, they're just never trained properly for actual fighting.
Im a Taekwondo student but is it weird that my master is teaching me how to throw hard and fast punches and blocking and dodging? Because ive heard people say that Taekwondo doesn't have that much defence and blocking.
@@kevingomez2470that’s because you probably so ITF (International Taekwondo Federation) Taekwondo, the original and self-defense focused version. WTF is the sports and tournament version.
It's the conditioning and how they train that makes them so much more dense. Then couple that with poverty and you have yourself a dangerous man.If you're taking traditional martial arts you have to box/kickbox in tandem or you'll end up fooling yourself.
These comparisons always strike me as kind of silly. The sport with the fewer rules is always going to win when it comes to martial arts. I can't think of a single example where a martial art with more restrictions ends up producing a better overall fighter. It makes sense too, how can you defend against something that you've never practiced defending? And if all of your skills make you vulnerable to attacks that you've never trained for it's pretty much a foregone conclusion
Then where are the krav maga ufc champs? Sure the eye gouges and ball shots are illegal but if they spar and train with less restrictions the improved defensive awareness and bodily toughness would carry over, like how Joe said the boxer "wanted to fight more than me". Spirit matters massively. The reason krav maga isn't the best martial art is because you can't effectively train it at full power, practitioners bodies wouldn't last long enough to allow for the long term training needed to *become* a krav maga master and if you wear a face mask and throat protection and so on then you aren't training how you will compete. This is also why bjj is so unreasonably effective despite all the restrictions, players can roll at 99.5% full force and just release the choke or joint lock before permanent damage, allowing them to get comfortable with the feeling of full combat while maintaining the health of their training partners.
Some ppl just cant differentiate the difference between martial arts and fighting. Martial arts is the practice of fighting and fighting is the practical application of martial arts.
We are in an era when one style is not enough anymore when all styles clash, but there is beauty in mastery of each style and things to love about each one. Be a specialist or generalist or recreational hobbyist, whichever is most rewarding to you. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks about it.
I love it how you merge talking of side kick and spinning back kick, because they fundamentally ARE THE SAME KICK. It is frustrating how we always train like as if they were different kicks and point out useless imaginative differences like " in back kick your kicking leg comes from right next to the supporting leg and heel is supposed to point up while kicking. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOUR HEEL IS POINTING AT. You can fundamentally make side kick and back kick the same way.
Muay Thai currently has a ban on the use of many Muay Thai weapons, especially neck locks and knee strikes, because the largest muscle group is the thigh. Next is the abdomen and then the arms. A complete knee strike in Muay Thai uses at least three muscles, making the attack three times as powerful. and may cause death on the spot If you hit your knee into the chin or nose
1:18 so fast you gotta see it in slow mo As I was watching this video I was realizing I use a lot of these kicks but I never trained taekwondo or karate. Watching this has shown why sometimes it would work and why usually it didn’t. Ty
The key weakness of TKD (ITF) is that all the kicks are designed for a certain distance. Even when I was trained to use elbows and knees in short distances, it wasn't as emphasized so we were undertrained in those short distance combos. Grappling were also trained but they were not as emphasized. My sabonim was very well rounded, and I wonder how he'd have performed against a MuayThai fighter. I think that the main disadvantage for a TKD fighter, who never watched another style, is that the muscle memory is accustomed to TKD based movements so the anticipatory reflex will betray him when a Muay Thai fighter does a novel punch/elbow combo catching him by surprise. A skilled TKD (ITF) figther who sparred a few times with a Muay Thai fighter, if smart, will learn to match to the opponent's style and prioritize controlling the distance for the kicks to connect appropriately.
So true! I practice ITF as well and knees and elbows need to be worked more on. My sabonim does put some emphasis on these, thankfully. Having studied other martial arts such as thai, indeed the way to be a well rounded fighter is to go through enough martial arts so you will be able to deal with them as well as expand your technique and arsenal. That's not a key weakness of ITF only of course, having knowledge of only one martial art is a key weakness of every martial artist who doesn't expand his horizons.
Taekwondo is an excellent preliminary art, instilling discipline necessary to be a successful mixed practitioner. I was pushed into classes at 11 yr old, then spent 2 years having a horrible time. I was in a lot of fights in school and out, and I am pretty sure that I resorted to punching, and grappling skills, lame as they were, in each. It's just not great for real world fights, but is far from being useless in real world fighting like Tai Chi, or Aikido. Muay Thai, and BJJ are the evolved arts, lessons learned the hard way, and can't be denied their effectiveness. The combination is unbeatable, hence the operative word in MMA, 'Mixed'. Add additional strength training, genetics, Boxing, or simple wrestling, and you might wonder why it's not called Beastmode Combat!
Ah mate, I wish this had even more views. I started out in TKD as well, got my first dan when I was still sixteen and also just ended up quitting around the time I was twenty because I didn't really feel it was going anywhere (I was in the TAGB, so like old style 1980s ITF). I now practice a couple of different martial arts, but yeah I always enjoy watching pro fighters using TKD well. Ultimately it's just like what so, so many have said, if TKD players would spar full contact and learn how to box properly and defend low kicks, it'd be so, so much more effective. Literally no reason these days why people can't do just that.
Well I go to a martial arts school called P3 Martial Arts and our primary form is most likely the ITF style of Taekwondo and our secondary form is jiu jitsu we only do enough jiu jitsu for a basic understanding of how to defend ourselves in those situations, but in our style of Taekwondo training we do much more than just kicking, we also learn blocking, different punching techniques like straight punching, hook punching, upper cuts, we also learned knife hand attacks, palm strikes, and elbow strikes, plus we learned and practiced to a lesser extent choke holds and take downs. We also do breaking, sparring, conditioning.
These days just using Taekwondo isn’t enough, it’s merely one ingredient to the stew of one’s martial art ability. Combine different aspects of styles like TKD, Kickboxing/Muay Thai, and Boxing all together and you’ll have something special
The higher you kick, the more vulnerable you become, especially if your kick missed the target. Now you are only on one leg to support your whole body which is spinning due to the kicking inertia. A slight push to your leg can quickly cause you to be imbalance and fall down. As simple as that. Focusing on only perfect kick is not a good idea.
Yup. I did TKD most my childhood. When I got to high school, I met a group of other martial arts lovers. We used to trade tips with one another and spar. One guy knew Jiu Jitsu and another Muy Thai. I quickly learned that TKD was inefficient against others who are trained. I quit TKD that year. But yea, I did teach them good kicks though. It was awesome for us to mix our styles like that. Eye opening.
It's not that taekwondo kicks were made for power. It's that, for sport they're not taught for power. We're even taught the range of some kick wrong. Taekwondo is as complete a martial art as karate. It's the bare bones version of karate that decided that, kicks were more important than people think, so they were advanced more.
As a guy who’s trained mostly in TKD, then a bit of Muay Thai and wrestling - I can say TKD only brings a few useful tools to the tool box rather than be the box.
BBL managed to make a positive of the weakness of the spinning taekwondo kicks... turning your back to your opponent. He did this by just keep spinning and either follow with a fist or with another kick in one fluid motion. And if it failed he had his toughness to absorb whatever was coming even kicks to the groin, which happen often with these kicks. Beautiful and inspiring.
there is a flip side to this, I still remember the first time I, with a kickboxing background, sparred with a tkd instructor way smaller than me and instantly for hit with kicks from way outside what I thought was his reach.
Not a big fan of your point about spinning attacks. True, if they miss they can leave you vulnerable, but thats virtually everything you do. For Muay Thai, leg kicks leave your head open, body kicks can be caught, and head kicks can leave you very off balance. In MMA, a double leg takedown can put you in one of the worst positions possible if done poorly or if your opponent can sprawl quickly enough. I just had my MMA debut and I focused on my boxing and Muay Thai kicks, my opponent started to catch my body kicks, so I threw one over his shoulder off a body kick feint. Its about learning how to use the strengths and weaknesses of different techniques, and when, not how 'objectively' good a technique is in my opinion
for me I would say i love most martial arts. I see tkd as something that is good to be mixed with other martial arts. Im training to gain speed, kick power and keep my fitness. My master always teaches us how to punch like a boxer, defend like a muay thai fighter and make most of our members feel familiar to mix with other martial arts. The good thing about mixing martial arts is respect among each other especially about our views on each fight. Some of the members who were muay thai fighters gave some advice and we did the same for self improvement. For me as a guy who does Taekwondo, if you dont train yourself to use ur hands and legs to defend or fight. You are not going to survive the beatdown. So MIX, try learn other things, and dont think that youre martial arts are way superior than others. Never look down on other martial arts.
Hey just taking a moment to appreciate the wonderful video you made, and express my gratitude. These are more than entertaining. It would be great to see more technical analysis in these too. There’s so much to discover. Aho! 🤙🙏
Because it has nothing to do with style but the martial artist accepting all styles have something to offer. What style is the best every style has something to offer and learn from.
Do you enjoy watching cocky Taekwondo fighters get destroyed by Muay Thai?
Free Legendary Strategies: www.lawrencekenshin.com
Nothing compares to that ❤
How'd you like that Sean performance, Lawrence? I'd guess you aren't a fan of the guy.
Perfect spinning back kick can shatter ribs and side kick to face could ko criticaly
Art in explaining this all 👌😎
Hi Lawrence, love your work! This is a bit random but I was wondering if you had seen any grantstevensmma on TH-cam? He's really cool, taekwondo base > martial arts tricking. Amazingly athletic, incredible technique and good coaching with some other um interesting beliefs. Id love to hear what you think of martial arts tricking. If you see this and you feel so inclined let me know
It's 100% true that low kicks require less skill and athleticism than higher or even spinning kicks. Pointing a gun and pulling the trigger also requires much less skill than hitting something with a bow, and no one questions which of the two is more effective. In the end, it is only about what works and is more efficient, what ends the fight more quickly.
Exactly.
Most people have no idea that even in the era of "knights" they constantly practiced not just with their weapons, but in WRESTLING. Most fights between knights that ended in death didn't happen from getting a lance through the chest, or an arrow through the eye holes.
The way most knights died in combat was terrifying, and brutal. In war, most of the time they were mobbed and pinned down while some of the people attacking them used daggers to stab them in places the armor doesn't protect - under the armpits, in the guts where the chest armor ends, in the neck, through the eye, etc.
In single combat, it was extremely rare for someone to die from an attack via sword, axe, halberd, etc. Again, it came down to losing a wrestling match, and having a dagger plunged into some unprotected areas.
Even in armor, the better martial artist wins.
Spinning kicks seem way more risky too. If you don't land it you've possibly left yourself wide open or even worse allowed yourself to fall down or be taken down
not really, because people do not run with a bow in Ukraine right now... TK is not a BS, but as said in the video, it is incomplite if compared to other sports like Muay Thai, boks or BJJ.
Who cares what something "looks" like, spinning kicks look "good" but all of these theatrics keep you open. You might as well say ballet is great.
Muay Thai is powerful, straight to the point. And I low kick checked can cause a lot of damage.
Low Kicks require talent and technique, just as all the theatrical spinning, drop kicks.
Absolutely correct@@kingtut1735
It all boils down to actually fighting. TKD is about scoring points, MT is about physically beating someone into submission. It should be obvious which one is superior in an actual fight.
Great analysis.
Straight to the point comment. Like Muay Thai, straight to the point ass kicking.
Correct. TKD is a sport where MT is a fight. MT stresses on beating and taking punishment which involves a lot of pain and the test if you have the heart to win.
@@leezap It was originally designed to be an art for war. The current version is considered to be a toned down version for sport already. Muay Thai is deadly. I guess Jujitsu is the only school of martial arts which is effective to some extent against Muay Thai.
Yup, same thing with Karate. When I was in highschool, I did Karate for 3 years at a reputable dojo. I found myself getting tired of it because I realized that I wasn't actually fighting. It was mostly katas and some weapon forms. And even on the few days we would actually spar, it was point-based, and it was limited side movement (you can only throw a side kick, an overhand knife-hand to the temple, a back fist, or a punch from the hip). It didn't make any sense to me, and I thought "No one in the real world actually fights like this". I honestly wish I went into Muay Thai from the get-go, but there were only karate dojos around and I didn't really know any better at the time.
One misconcept is that MT doesnt have round back kick. Actually it does. Its call Chorakae-Fad-Hang (meaning Crocodile moves its tail). It's one of the fan fovorite move and known for its force in MT as well. but it isnt used very often in MT fight because of its drawback if not successfully landed
That's right you know exactly what you're talking about❤❤
most people don't know that there are multiple styles of muay thai , 1:Muay Femur , 2: Muay Khao , 3: muay mud , 4: muay sok , 5: muay plam and ,6 : muay farang , now almost all muay thai gyms mix all these together .
just watch Saenchai fight. he does alot of different kicks whenever he feels like it that you wouldn't normally see in an average muay thai fight
They completely nerfed the Muay Thai fighter leaving him only with kicks and punches... and then afterwards complained that he only used low kicks. But they forgot about the conditioning and underestimated the kicks and so Rufus got kicked into the hospital. But much respect for them actually taking the steps to learn about Muay Thai and came to respect it.
well if you go with the point scoring aspect of TKD then your always nerfing TKD
Removing/leaving out the TDK point system doesn't take away any of the techniques the TKD fighter can use. And in the end even these fights are won/lost on points or (T)KO, just not on how pretty/difficult your kicks are. It was a fighting match not ice skating.
With the Rufus fight what they did (and still often do) is remove all (of what they thought were) the most powerful techniques from the MT fighter's arsenal (knees, elbows, headbuts, throws, tackles). So they nerfed the MT fighter but not the TKD fighter. But they underestimated the power of the MT low kick... So the MT fighter basically destroyed the best TDK fighter and his full arsenal with just one technique, the strength and will power of a giant and lots of heart. Rufus fought like a lion and with an equal amount of heart but his legs gave out.
I have trained TKD for 4 years, and Muay Thai for 8 years. I think the differences are these.
1. TKD wastes too much time doing worthless patterns, breaking boards and other things that doesn't help you in a combat situation. Muay Thai fighters only train to win in ring; technique, conditioning, strength and sparring was all we ever did.
2. TKD is extremely specialized. The kicks are very good, and TKD fighters can be very dangerous with the legs at a distance. At close range, the lack of boxing/clinching skills becomes a serious problem. Muay Thai utilizes all 8 limbs and has standing grappling and throws. No matter the distance or type of (standing) fight, Muay Thai has an answer to that.
3. Conclusion: Because of more relevant training and the ability to easily exploit the weaknesses of TKD, Muay Thai will defeat TKD almost every single time.
8 limbs?
@@oscarmendez1477 Two fists, two elbows, two knees and two shins = 8 limbs. It is often called the art of the eight limbs.
@@hb9145 Oh! Thanks for the explanation!
Bro i bet you can fucking kick huh
@nicholasgreen339 Muay Thai with a regular system of scoring will still be Muay Thai. Take away elbows, knees, etc., and it becomes a different sport (kickboxing).
Props to my first TKD instructor for also training us in boxing basics. His father was a boxer in the Army and taught him after he lost his first TKD tournament. When I see TKD schools training now I always feel like something is missing.
I was fortunate to have a TKD instructor who knew boxing and judo. I agree most TKD guys are not prepared for intense punches - I think there is too much emphasis on kicks. And most instructors don't emphasize getting off the center line, especially if your opponent is taller.
Serkan Yilmaz
Steve Vick
Manson Gibson
Ignacio El Misil
Thanh Le
I read TKO instructor
i recently stumbled upon itf taekwondo thinking about doing kickboxing and entering those tournaments for fun
huh?@@OttomanMalay
@LawrenceKenshin "If Mike Tyson was a Muay Thai fighter, he would say that every Taekwondo fighter has a plan until they get kicked to the legs." I laughed so damn hard at that. So true, and so funny 😂
Biased 😂
Oh, you mean
"Muay Thaison"?
Right?
"Everyone hath a plan until they get kickedth to the ballths"
who let thier legs get kicked and be fine vs real martial artiststs. do you even know how to take a kick to leg? lmfao sounds like you don't and you don't know what you are talking about.
@@Crestfallen-jc6mu but actually, i train my calves as a tkd player. like a kick cannot dmg them easily. I condition them regularly. So i can maintain balance and it wont do much dmg
dude 🤣
My old head coach Duke Roufus. Young Duke. Dropped his pride and moved to Thailand to train. Became one of the best heavyweight champions in muay thai and kb.
Your channel got me into Muay Thai. Thank you 🙏
Love the low kick. I don't know why some people don't use them more during their sparring sessions. Gotta love the low lead kick when facing a Southpaw and then building from that
thanks for sharing, happy it did!
@@LawrenceKenshinI've had family ask me why I didn't do other styles. I used your baseball bat analogy!!
My name is also Lawrence (no joke) 😂
The reason even conditioned fighters don't low kick frequently in sparring is the same reason you don't elbow the face frequently in sparring- you'd want two injury-free athletes to come back for the next session.
if it is kungfu guy, he would be blown off by muay thai in the first contact
Ya but in a real fight Tae Kwon Do would win because nut kicks always wins.
The first martial art I learned was Taekwondo in my late teens. I loved the athleticism and the variety of high-risk high-reward kicks. One day a good friend of mine and I decided to spar. He was practicing Hapkido, another Korean martial art. He lit me up with his hands. TKD is so heavily focused on the legs that we never learned how to defend or throw a punch properly. A couple of years later I was exposed to Muay Thai. I watched the exhibition fights and I was hooked. MT techniques are powerful, practical and brutally efficient. As time went on and responsibilities changed, I stopped training but I would hit the bag when I could at the gym. Fast forward to 2 years ago and I wanted to get my son in martial arts. The closest school to us is an Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate dojo. I wanted my 6-year-old to have a base to start his journey and this fit the bill. After 6 months of watching his classes the martial arts bug bit me hard. I arrogantly went into the first few classes thinking that my MT background gave me an edge over my peers. I learned very quickly that OGR Karate is not the points based style you see on TV. Many of the stances and strikes are remarkably similar to MT. My MT background gave me a head start on learning the techniques since they are so similar: kicks, knees, elbows and punches. I’ve also been able to utilize some of the kicks I learned in TKD since these are part of the OGR techniques. Our classes have included some jiujitsu and I’m finding myself really drawn to it. I think I’m going to be looking for a school, soon. My martial arts journey has been an interesting one, but my heart still belongs to MT.
i kinda mixed TKD and boxing. theres still the funny spinnies but there are also like rolls and head guarding. mixing Peek a Boo guard with TKD is lowkey hilarious
Sounds like your buddy had a proper Hapkido dojang. Hapkido takes a lot of the old power kicks from traditional TKD. Modern TKD unfortunately sacrificed technique and power for speed ever since it became an Olympic sport. If you slow it down and really work the techniques how they should be done, instead of the shortcuts for speed, you can turn those slap kicks into very powerful kicks. I love Hapkido but it is hard to find a dojang that isn't complete BS. If you aren't worried about getting hurt when you first get there and learn how to breakfall, probably not a good school. If people aren't getting slammed with modified judo throws with joint locks, probably not proper hapkido. If they don't have at least Judo Newaza level ground work, not worth your time. Oh, and if they aren't teaching boxing at least at the basic level... you already know. Hapkido really is meant to be a mixed martial art before MMA was a thing.
@@BionicBurke thank you for the great info. My friend was training at Eagle Hapkido in Toronto. The founder is Grandmaster Hwang In Shik. I have no doubt you know who that legend is. I had the privilege of attending Siam No. 1 in Toronto, the first Muay Thai school in Canada. The founder is another legend, Ajahn Suchart Yodkerepauprai. Many highly successful nak muay farang’s came out of that school including Clifton Brown and Simon Marcus. I was lucky enough to receive training by the former and trained with the later. Bear in mind, this was over 20 years ago!
To be fair, Goju ryu is known for being one of the deadliest and toughest styles of karate…. Seriously, those people, at a high level, can kill with their thumbs
@@dstavsHwang in Shik?! Damn!
As a Taekwondo practitioner when I was a teenager, as soon as I saw Muay Thai I knew I would get crushed by one of these fighters. The style is just nice and simple, especially those simple leg kicks. Love both arts but yeah Muay Thai just works haha. Edit: I think it's cool to have both (having those surprising hooking kicks and back kicks in your arsenal helped me with some knockouts 😇 You take what you can get from each style).
They both have something to offer. I transitioned to Muay Thai too, and I always felt that the strong kicking base (even after adjusting to Muay Thai) gave me an advantage.
simple and powerful
Muay Thai has hook kicks
Realistic approach kooool
Muay Thai was created to fight in "wars" according to historical records. It is an art used to kill enemies on the battlefield. warrior uses sword to fight but if your sword slips from your hand, you have to use Muay Thai to kill your opponent. Nowadays, as time has passed, Muay Thai has been used in sports competitions, has more rules and is safer. But it still felt dangerous
Divided into 4 categories:
1.) Muay Lopburi
The highlight of this type of boxing is the quick and accurate punches. Quickly use punches, feet, knees, and elbows
2.) Muay Korat
The highlight of this type of boxing is punching. The sting is very powerful. The punches are wide, violent and include a technique known as the "11 Problem Solving"
3.) Muay Chaiya
This type of boxing has a total of 7 moves. The highlight of this type of boxing is Throwing your opponent to the ground (similar to MMA)
4.) Muay Tha Sao (Muay Phraya Phichai)
The highlight of this type of boxing is that the punches can be far, fast and violent. There are 15 punching moves, 10 kicking moves, 10 knee strikes and 10 elbow strikes
In Muaythai we also do spinning back kick when we miss the kick called (จระเข้ฟาดหาง) or back push kick called (กวางเหลี่ยวหลัง) to protect our back just like spinning back elbow called (หิรัญม้วนแผ่นดิน) we considered all of these as a trick to knock out and call it (ลูกไม้) in Muaythai
"Everyone has a plan until they get kicked in the legs 100 times by a muay thai figther"
-Muay Thaison
🤣😂🤣😂
Muay Thaison hahahah
Taekwondo : Sports.
Muay Thai : Lethal Weapon.
Laugh in Lethwei
at My Perspective points as Observer:
I agree Taekwondo as More into it for support at least for defender on the Street.
Muay Thai More Than Lethal Weapon either in the Ring or on the Street.
@@cnevarita6265 lol no one knows that shit
@@cnevarita6265 yeah the art of 9 limbs💪
Kyokushin: lethal Weapon
Taekwondo heavily relies on foot work and mobility. Once you start attacking the legs, all of that becomes far more difficult to pull off. Same if you throw a boxer in a kickboxing match. A boxer won't be able to move and plant their weight properly if the kickboxer keeps attacking their legs.
not really. fancy stuff are from sell out versions. if you don't know how to take hits to legs and take damage then you had bad teachers. depending on the person landing hit on the legs are extremely hard. especially they learned hapkido on top of it which most Koreans learn before 2 years of mendetory military. after most of them turn into dads who works in the office because of how south Korea is but dont' get mixed up with sell out taekwondo.
Interesting enough, when I trained in Thailand I was surprised at how much we trained kicking to the body instead of low, coming from a background of MMA training. Low kicks do not score in Muay Thai (though they did still train them and they still valued them for the damage they do at the gym I visited.)
I think the Muay Thai stance also means it’s easier to check low kicks as opposed to mma
@@samclements3594 yep, absolutely right
When I trained in Atlantis I was shocked at how much we trained flipper kicks
Low kicks do indeed score in Thailand, but they score lower than body kicks and high kicks. Some fighters like Teerapong Kaeowisaet will end lots of fights with low kicks.
The goal of low kicks is to incapacitate the opponent, not so much scoring.
Taekwondo is about forms with most not used to using full power bcoz it is not allowed during competition. Muay thai is about real life fighting skills...it is about survival not just getting fancy belts
True it is about not using full power I trained in tkd for about 9 years and quit when I got my black belt because taekwondo on its own is as this video explains incomplete it’s more about the art form but instead if you add and combine other forms of martial arts you can become a fierce opponent I think what taekwondo teaches is the flow of combinations and also teaches the versatility of movement
It's the art of war, there is a whole story behind the art so it's about using your body as a weapon because the Thai Warriors had no weapons, the captains and the generals head sticks and swords on horses but the Warriors had little to no Weaponry so they had to use their bodies As Weapons against the burmese, muay Boran ❤❤❤
@@SAMEntalhealth Uh, no. Even the worst standing army in 1400's would at least be to field simple spears for every foot soldier. And now we're talking about kingdoms that were contantly at wars with their neighbors, they wouldn't be stupid enough to spend all the money on swords and guns for a few nobles while the peasants use their hands.
Search up their structure organization, they had spearmen, bowmen, swordmen, musketeers just like in other regions.
That boy crying about his brother losing that fight at the start somehow failed to mention that they handicapped the Muay Thai fighter not allowing him to use the clinch, knees, or elbows.
If they had allowed that the fight would have been over much sooner and the dude would have had even more to cry about.
You are spot on with your statements.
timestamp ?
and Taekwondo fightera got used to loosing teeth too...
NO..that is NOT accurate.
They did not actually handicap him.
The Thai fighter, Changpuek, agreed to fight Rick Rufus in a Kickboxing match, in the Karate International Council of Kickboxing organization (K.I.C.K.).
It was Western style Kickboxing match, NOT a Muay Thai match. The K.I.C.K. organization, along with damn near every other Western style Kickboxing organization at the time, being NOT Muay Thai, had a different rule set from Muay Thai. A rule set that did not allow for knees, elbows, clinching, and throws. Most of Western Kickboxing organizations didn't even allow for low kicks. All kicks had to be above the belt. If anything, an exception was made for Changpuek so he could throw low kicks.
People talk like they made elbow, knees, and clinching illegal specifically for that fight, in order to handicap Changpuek, and that is simply not true.
One of the main reasons why Changpuek agreed to fight under the rule set of the K.I.C.K. organization was to prove that even with elbows, knees, and clinching being illegal, that Muay Thai was still superior to Western style Kickboxing. He was eager to show Western style Kickboxing that even under a rule set that limited what he could attack with, that his Muay Thai was still better.
Saying "they handicapped him" is completely disingenuous, and makes it seem like it was something malicious that was purposely done to Changpuek to put him at a disadvantage. And to be honest, saying that does a disservice to Changpuek and his level of skill and accomplishments as a 7 time World Champion. Because he was NEVER at a disadvantage. And he proved that.
@@krismikewill No. He's not really that spot on with his statements.
As someone who started with taekwondo, I learned first hand the brutality of Mt. I was sparring against the guy that got me into MT. He kicked me in the middle of a spinning back kick. GF had to massage my leg for 2 hours. I dropped TKD after that. I've done several styles, even boxing and GR wrestling.
Once iwnas profiecent in Mt I was amazed how easy it was to win against average fighters like myself. We used to have open style, all in sparring matches. After 2 or 3 blocks with my shins, most didn't want to throw kicks at me.
Muaythai break your shin bone in micro fragments and reinforced it to be thicker and stronger untill you can break a baseball bat and banana tree like Buakow seriously take a look at Tawanchai 😂
@@nightclawer6679 Recently i found out about Tawanchai that guy is terrifyng i never see a fighter like him, his striking adn brutality in fight is terrifiyng
Is it just me or do good Muay Thai fighters always seem very calm and humble compared to fighters from other styles?
@avusookay6743 It's very true. I've seen it happened to many people. Myself included.
southeast asian fighting arts in general vouch for respect as part of fighting philosophy, trash talking is seen as a cheap thing
Its what you are taught when you start muay thai, panicking will cause your demise. Even after a punch to the face and a kick to the shin, you have to remain calm and collected
It's depends on the personality of that fighter. I have seen many cocky muay thai fighters. They like to laugh during the fight.
Not the westerners
To be honest most of the taekwondo schools that I know of in Los Angeles as early as the 80s were already mixing boxing with their taekwondo Philip Rhee ,jun chong hee IL Cho etc
MT is continually evolving as it's continued to be stress tested by every generation of practitioners. MT fighters start at an extremely young age and some can begin their pro careers with more fights under their belts than some pros of other arts end their career with.
I knew a cocky tkd guy who went to my gym. I'm a Muay Thai fighter myself. He kept telling me what he would do to me in sparring, putting Muay Thai down. He had a miscommunication that they only have a body round kick ,a push kick, and only kick to the body with no high kicks or low kicks. I was like what world are you living in. He ended up being defeated by me in sparring only ending up getting his ego destroyed and quitting the gym. I also want to add I love tkd myself as it was the first art I started with, cool kicks and you can definitely add some to Muay Thai to make it more versatile 🙏
Something similar happened here: I have a TKD and Muay Thai background, and this arrogant Karate blackbelt came to our Muay Thai gym and wanted to spar. We were about the same weight, but I was the taller fighter. I had only trained Muay Thai for a couple of years, but I just closed the distance hit him in the face and put him in the Thai clinch, where he was utterly helpless.
he proved what a clon he was , instead of staying and exepting defeat and asking you to train him so he can become better instead he ran of like the cocky little sht he was but did you meet him again to speak to him or did he never apear again cause maybe he's changes his aditude .
@@hb9145closing the distance is a death sentence for a casual TKD practitioner.
You don't have to practice Taekwondo to kick well, :) all you need to do is get a black belt in Kyokushin Karate, and then learn Muay thai and Boxing, and then no Taekwondo fighter will beat you in a stand-up fight. :) :D
as a person who trains Taekwondo for 2 years, i can say this video is true.. so that's why i learn muay thai also for second martial arts to complete the martial arts style.
learn taekwondo from one of general choe hong hi's students
@@ektran4205 Taekwondo still doesn't have good blocking and i kept training embracing that weaknesess. I learn muay thai to perfect the martial arts..
You need a good ground game to be a complete martial artist.
Wrestling is the best discipline to learn.
@@igorivanov299 Yes, i think about that too actually .. i need ground technique to complete my martial arts. Thanks for sayin this mate 👍🏻
@@darkerpathgo and learn it in north korean if your country have diplomatic relations see the different between wtf south korean and itf north korean
Choi Hong Hi Is Founder Of Taekwondo But Defect To North Korean,Because They Destroy His Martial Art
honestly, ive seen some taekwondo competition and a lot of them are just about scoring points, not taking on opponents. quick strikes just to score. meaning theyre not really fighting. meanwhile, almost all muay thai ive seen are fights or simulates a fight. that alone shows the quality of the discipline in terms of combat. not to mention how versatile muaythai is.
its so nice to watch an in-depth video about this.
Point fighting and full-contact are just two different (controlled) fighting environments and both are valid, but develop different skills. Both are necessary and beneficial to every martial artist.
@leonardomarquesbellini the point is, taekwondo is more of a point based sport which developed as such. While muay thai is developed to be a more comlpete martial art. Never said one was invalid but its clear which method of gaining experience is much more effective IN TERMS OF COMBAT.
@@CutzMcOnions of course, I don't disagree that combat sports are better at ring fighting. It's what they train for, after all. Someone that never trained full contact or ,in the context of this video, a Taekwondo practicioner that only ever did WTF rules competition is never going to perform well in a ring or cage, they have no experience with that.
I just think it's important not to go too far and just completely disregard completely the kinds of valuable lessons practicing point fighting like you have in sport Taekwondo or Karate. That competion format is much better than full-contact at developing speed, quick thinking, reflexes, foresight and distance management skills, all of which are important to a fighter. As a bonus it's also way less taxing on the body, so you can train it more often than full-contact without putting an expiration date on yourself (for example I know some Dutch Kickboxing guys that even without ever stepping into a ring were forced to quit under 10 years of training because they couldn't take it anymore).
If it's all you ever do then you'll be incomplete, but a martial artist that never does it isn't complete either. In my opinion training itself should be about 3/4 point fighting and 1/4 full-contact, and for all but the professional athletes that can affordable to wreck their bodies for cash prizes we should try to compete in both formats as often as possible. There's just too much good stuff to learn to just throw it all away.
@@leonardomarquesbellini im gonna be honest im not reading all that. keep it within the context of my comment and within a few lines. im not in youtube to read your thesis.
@@CutzMcOnions it literally takes 30 seconds to read it.
The core thing in Muay Thai is to be humble and discipline. Muay Thai fighter is never get cocky. When they in the ring they have some fun with the fight and be respect to others fighter across the ring.
love to see cocky tkd fighters get destroyed. also good to know that its not completely BS
love you!
@@LawrenceKenshin 🤭🥰😘
What did taekwondo do to you? Lol
@@cd3121 kicked my dog.
@@BionicBurke guess the dogg needs to train muay thai lol
When I started Muay Thai, I thought fighting was just two things: Fatigue and pain. We learn how to manage both. I had no idea there was a meditative side of martial arts like how Karate and Taekwondo have. For as brutal as Muay Thai is, I kinda want some of that relaxing stuff too. But there is a traditional dance that comes with Muay Thai, that part is kind of relaxing.
I do Maui Thai and can say it is hard as it it looks you got to condition every part of your body just to stand a chance and while we don’t have spinning kicks our kicks are designed for pain not show
*Muay Thai* ~ _Fighting_
*Taekwondo* ~ _Sport_
The finer details are expounded upon in this excellent *Striking Breakdown* video by *Lawrence Kenshin.*
Muay Thai is a sport too, just more focused on fundamentals that you can more easily apply for self defense.
@@ggstatertots Sports are athletic contests and/or games that people play.
Fighting is something different.
Example:
Amateur boxing is a sport, where the competitors attempt to score points.
Professional boxing can be a sport, unless/until one (or both) of the boxers decides to make it a fight; then it becomes a fight, whether the other boxer wants it to be or not.
A boxer cannot force his opponent to box with him but he can force him to fight.
Muay Thai is absolutely a sport lol.
@@fruitylerlups530 It is hard and/or inappropriate to categorize professional Muay Thai as a sport.
Sports are games that people play.
An eleven (11) year old "kid" fighting for money to feed his family is not a game and they are not playing.
@@John.Flower.Productionsmuay thai is a sport with the rule however without the rule of game then mauy thai is killing combat (muay thai actually comes from war)
Joe said it's a sport and the moment you put sport rules into an art it dilutes its fighting competentance.
Taekwondo is just another victim of that.
Touch Points based competitions creates weak fighters.
That's another reason the only karate allowed should be kyokushin
Kyokushin would work better if allowed gloves, mouthguards and head strikes. It also fails in MT matchups a lot because Kyokushin guys dont aim for the head aside from kicks. MT guys do with kick, punches, and elbows.
But aside from that, Kyokushin guys are hard as a bag of nails.
@@shkotayd9749 indeed agreed, some of the best kickboxers came from kyokushin backgrounds. Literally mixed it with a bit of boxing and bam you have a proper monster. Ie Andy Hugg for example.
@@DP-dd6hl Yep. The style itself has to be adapted quite a bit. I liked MT most because you just had to get a boxing background which could easily be worked in and didnt require really any big fundamental changes.
Kyokushinkai was pretty close in that respect as well.
@@shkotayd9749 or we could both just do lethwei lolol
@@DP-dd6hl never tried it lol.
But I would like to see a review of Savate some time. I have to tell you having sparred a couple savate guys years ago, shoe sparring and getting TOES to the ribs reinforced with shoes hurt. A LOT lol.
A lot of people misunderstand Muay Thai at first glance. They think it's a kick and punch and knee and elbow. It is not, at the core. Muay Thai is a martial art that is about throwing hit and taking hit. It's a street fight material to the core.
41:00 At the end of the video when you're discussing effective kicks, I had the image of Samart Payakaroon just toying with people with his teep and side teep.
There's no doubt in my mind that Samart had the best distance management of any Muay Thai fighter (which makes sense because he wasn't the most durable fighter).
GOAT of Muay Thai
@@perfectsplit5515 more like hybrid myau thai genius
Rick Roufus, Dale Cook, Manson Gibson, Ignacio Capllonc and Steve Vick are all such awesome fighters with cool fighting styles. Love the video!
When I was in my late teens I studied Okinawa karate. At tournaments I would always beat the tae kwon do practitioner bc I knew all they would do is kick. So I either timed their kicks or stayed too close for them to kick. Not saying I was the best out there or the level we were at was super high, but it’s nice knowing ahead of time what they would do.
Both in Karate style and kickboxing style competitions I had that same experience. It was easy to predict a tkd fighter. You get inside their kicks and beat them with punches and you can dominate them. and in karate we have most of the same kicks, but we are more balanced between kicking and punching than TKD is. Add in the boxing that we combined with karate, it is really easy to take on a traditional tkd fighter. That why I would always tell my TKD friends to take some boxing to compliment their kicks
As a youngster I did muay thai and then my parents got divorced. I moved a long with my mom the a rural town that only had a karate/taekwondo club.
So I was like whatever, but as city boy who did muay thai I got a lot of attention from all the kids and some older kid with a brown or black belt who thought he was some kinda alpha kid, didn't like that and challenged me. He actually did 3 times and 3 times I whooped his butt, then I became the alpha kid 🤣
Good old days haha
I'm right there with you man. My first love was taekwondo, but my true love was muai thai 🤣
The problem is not the Taekwondo but the fighter. Many Taekwondo fighters are very hard,many Taekwondo fighters know how to low kick and block low kicks and many of then are training boxe.
muay thai fighters adding tkd kicks to heir tool kit
they don't learn how to kick with the shin , they kick with the top of the foot witch won't do sht if throw low .
The problem IS taekwondo lol. Its a martial art, not a sport
That was always the problem I had with most traditional martial arts, rarely teaching their students how to take a punch. Props to my TaeKwonDo instructor Byung Yul Lee. Would always line us up against the wall and have the other class punch us without being able to defend ourselves.mWould always give us real world experieces as well including rooted stances and low kicks. It was always no holds barred with the expect the unexpected philosophy. Made me appreciate my training when I went up against MT fighters. Sure I can stilldo all that fancy looking stuff...even at 57, but to me it was always about practicality, not looking pretty. The fancy stuff was always saved for when I had people on the "rope" already. Part of the problem with MOST TKD schools, is that they train for tournament and point fighting. That was always second in Lee's school, first was the real world.
TKD is not a traditional martial art. Muay thai is though
I loved this deep dive into strikes. It does make you wonder if different martial arts train against each other what new art might surge into prominence. Also clearly conditioning should always be a must, but I did always consider if you are fighting a form that relies on only a specific attack weapon, feet or legs or wrestling, then you simply insure you attack a specific form in a way that is not known by the given form, but it also begs the question if you did stay to one form and condition it to defense or counters against other forms, could the puritan excel with their given form?
Cross sparring between kyokushin karatekas and Muay Thai fighters in the 1900s led to the birth of kickboxing which is pretty neat
If only... maybe you could mix the martial arts. Call it the Universal Fighting Championship. Maybe someday.
"Fear not the man who practices a thousand kicks one time. Fear the man who practices one kick a thousand times." - Bruce Lee
Farts?
@@nelsonhibbert5267bro what
How about a thousand kicks a thousand times? lol
@@Turiptlehow about 1 kick, one million times?
Taekwondo is my first love too. I agree that it is incomplete. Planning to train Muay Thai and others soon!
did you review about its original Tangsoodo
@@ernestotorres6151 I haven't dug deep into it but I believe it has some similarities with ITF or Hapkido.
Good for u for not letting ur pride get in the way of becoming a better martial artist.
@@ernestotorres6151 tang soo do is basically karate but not kykushin though .
@@crisalcantara7671 a Kwan or Korean art though it influenced by karate, a predecessor of Taekwondo.
Excellent video!!! Awesome footage and research. I really, really, really liked this topic 🙂 I train Muay Thai, but I am a big fan of elegant and powerful taekwondo kicks. I also use sidekicks and spinning backkicks. I am working on the tornado kick now. I believe that training complex kicks is simply good for the body and overall flexibility. The more background you have, the more options you get in a fight. And for sparring, it is simply fun to sometimes throw an extravagant kick 🙂
Practice high kicks too. The reason for that is building muscles you don't use in mid or low kicks. If you can break 3 or more boards stacked together at 7 feet high, imagine how powerful your mid low kicks become.
ITF Taekwondo practitioner here. Our training involved a lot of boxing routines and body conditioning. Similar to what you saw in the second part of the video. Traditional ITF taekwondo is pretty solid. By year two (I was 21 at the time) we were invited to participate in Sanda competitions and were training take downs, counter wrestling take downs, adding knees in the mix. The tournament was quite bloody. Having a solid TKD base and adding grappling and boxing in the mix will make you a tough fighter.
I got to red belt in Tae Kwon Do and i will say im damn good even now with my legs. BUT atleast for me i was never a cocky fighter in the dojo or out of it. When i was at college i ran into a Muy Tai practictioner we had some drinks and we both wanted to spar. We both set rules and the spar was damn awsome! If i kept him at bay with legs i did have advantage but once he clenched i was done, bastard almost knocked me out with a close knee and i almost knocked him with a kick. It was amazing to see the difference in skills the arts taught us. We werent mad, we respected what was dished to each other, took a breather and continued on. Ill definitely say i lost the bout hand down, i got him twice out of 10. After that night i had alot of respect for my friend and his art, and he did for mine. It really taught me that if they get close to clench you, youre kinda fucked, Tae Kwon Do never really tuaght me how to work with suche a close opponent. Miss that dude!
Best Muay Thai & TKD breakdown! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Spinning kicks from TKD are gorgeous but.... just ineffective in a real life situations. Nobody wins Streetfights by breaking boards and throwing tornado kicks.
just like any technique, they are effective if you know how to use them. And if u search far enough, there's a few who beated a random street thug with a spinning back kick.
You can win a street fight with any kick if you throw it fast enough. Key points are good timing and enough space. But tbf stuff like full power roundhouse or low kicks are already overkill for an average person lmao
Ive knocked out people with a spinning wheel kick or what we call it as reverse hook kick here where i am. Absolutely right bout the hand. In tkd, its used to balance the body to throw those kicks. Had a hard time getting my hands up when transiting into MMA. But the judgement of distance, covering the distance and counter attacks from tkd kicks are 2nd to none.
But fast forward 2023, my kids will do MT and Judo 😂....I'll teach them tkd kicks. No need to go for formal classes for tkd.😊
" Rules didn’t allow him to win.." reminds of a Dallas fan yelling .."we woulda won, if they (Packers) hadn’t scored so many touch downs." I never forgot that logic.
I’ve never trained in Taekwondo but my first coach. In his practice he often mixes traditional K1 Muay Thai stuff with some Taekwondo things.
That’s where I got f.e. my axe kick from. It’s often scares people who aren’t used to it.
Be careful with that. My friend is a 4th degree kickboxing blackbelt, and he ripped the hamstring so bad that he has permanent pain. I stopped doing that kick many years ago. ;)
It’s because Muay Thai is the more practical and efficient fighting system.
Don’t fear the man that’s practiced 1,000 kicks, but fear the man that has practiced 1 kick 1,000 times - Bruce Lee.
Yes, taekwondo is more flashy. But in Muay Thai you practice simple efficient kicks and build up to deliver devastating power on repeat. You condition your shins to take and deliver damage… it’s basically the more efficient damage delivery fighting platform… it doesn’t try to impress… it does its job.
Kaoklai was about 170lbs when he was fighting K1, I think he weighed 176 for the Mo fight if I remember right, not that it changes the point.
Joe is also talking about 80s TKD, not modern TKD. 80s TKD was an excellent kicking basis for kickboxing as competitors from that era combined their "base" martial art with boxing. Other arts like Wing Chun or Karate had hand techniques that were completely replaced by boxing, so in that sense 80s TKD was the best TMA to combine with boxing. Now we have BJJ+MT which is generally considered to be the best combo. Times change.
Thank you. It not often that people acknowledge that this information is based of the 70s and 80s. By the mid 80 kickboxers have included low kicks competition and conditioning, as well as training for the K-1 rule set.
I started with Kung Fu and quickly transitioned into Muay Thai. I used to think I was a little badass in highschool and got ragdolled by one of the wrestlers lmao now I just have an overall MMA style but I favor my striking still
I would hope that your Videos put an effect on Taekwondo practitioners and Dojos to implement full contact Sparring and making it a more prevalent practice in their regimens.
I am just laughing, thinking of what Joe said that the left hook didn’t really hurt, but his legs stopped working. I remember taking a few shots although the shots hurt, there was a disconnect between my brain and my legs and I just could not get them to move. It is funny hearing his description of it because that is exactly how I felt.
As someone that’s been involved with tkd (and then later on many other martial arts) for a decade, I can honestly say I’ve never met an intermediate-advanced tkd practitioner that was not an arrogant hypocrite. Somethings I have heard from multiple practitioners include: “you cannot compare martial arts” then they’ll turn right around and say “but TaeKwondo is the most superior martial art”. After I started judo, bjj, and Muay Thai and I told my best friend and uncle (both tkd black belts) that bjj is superior to tkd insofar-as fighting ability, even after I sparred, took down, and tapped out both of them after 4 months of bjj they told me the only reason I thought bjj was better because “I’m biased toward bjj” which makes absolutely no sense since I started tkd with both of them. Tkd has an incredible cult like atmosphere. I’ve been to probably 6 tkd schools along the east coast of the US as well as discussed with many other practitioners online and every one of them without exception unless if they learned a real martial art, all of them had a superiority complex
My fitness coach has practiced taekwondo for 20+ years but he's the most humble and charming when it comes to muay thai vs taekwondo.
I practice JKA karate, and i love it and have competitive goals. However, i do want to be a good fighter overall and started crosstraining in boxing. I like my fast and snappy side and questionmark kicks and thought the lack of close range hand skills was the biggest lack of karate. I never thought the stance would matter that much. Needless to say i have never recieved a leg kick... Maybe i should give muay thai a try
Good idea! Leg kicks are one thing; elbows, knees, clinch and throws are big parts of Muay Thai. If we were to spar, I would quickly recognize your good kicks and boxing skills, so I would try to close the distance and put you in the thai clinch, where I could use throws, arm traps, elbows and knees.
Depends what TKD you learn. I studied under The Chun Do Kwon association in the 90s and early 2000s, they purposely taught us knee and elbow strikes as well as incorporated Hapkido into the training to make us more well rounded fighters.
Yeah I trained in the TAGB and back then they also taught us to use knees and elbows, it was more like old school Karate I guess. Still, we didn't train full contact so I would have still got owned without cross-training, hah.
If you trained tae kwon do to win a tkd championship, you'll become "weak". They get point just by touching the body protector with soft kick. Another example, for the sake of getting easy point too, when practicing deol chagi (the shovel kick?), instead of practicing to use the heel, they'll use the tip of the feet though using the heel is more destructive since they can get more reach by using the tip. Suggestion for people who love tkd's kicks, train it as hard as it should be, as if we're going to kill some one with the techniques, as how the muathay boxer have been practicing theirs. And use your fists too. Note: I trained tkd for a couple of years when I was in the high school, and then in the college, but I don't want my kids to join any dojang. I prefer them to learn kempo, judo, kyokushinkai, or wushu instead, and then teach them some tkd techniques into their arsenal. Tae kwon do is a great martial arts. It's the organization who ruin it.
thank you.
Thank you!!
TKD is just flashy imo. A lot of spinning kicks. It seems they prioritize those quick kicks and spinning kicks more than efficiency and power. Muay Thai is straight forward plus they implement striking with your hands, elbows and knees making it more complete than TKD. In a real fight(sparring ) all i use from TKD is the front side kick, spinning back kick and sometimes that spinning hurricane kick. But it's always about timing and setting
up when to use it. So i save it as an unexpected move to mix it up a bit besides the side kicks. So basically everything else it's straight kickboxing/Muay Thai/boxing.
Imo Ramon Dekkers is the style I'm going for. Explosiveness, speed and power. Boxing mixed in with lethal low kicks is my go to. In the hands department is where tkd fails. It messes up their strategies for setting up kicks. And the clinch work. Long story short. It's incomplete but not useless.
in sport taekwondo sure. but there's more than 5 different styles of Taekwondo
I think that when someone who is good at taekwondo knows how to defend against boxing and clinch they become very scary.
I really enjoy practicing Muay Thai. Such a noble art. That body conditioning is hard like you mentionned too.
However I was surprising myself with some spinning attack that came naturally. I was wondering if they would have great impact in the motion as I only practice for my pleasure at home.
This video was an eye opener with the australian Vick. Damn he was so fluid in his motion. I really liked watching him. Never heard of him before...
Black Bruce Lee was devastating too but I wasn't that into his way of moving.
This is scary!
Be water my friend. So true!
👏
I saw this comparison first hand when I was young, I had a classmate who was doing TKD he's was one of the best in our school. He was tough but cocky. One day in the canteen my classmate being big and cocky accidentally bumped into a a student younger than us spilling his food, and my classmate being him refused to apologize.
The younger student was noticeably smaller than my classmate then it got heated and you know the "I'll see you after class" things we said when we were young. They went at the back of the school my classmate was cocky since he had longer reach and he knew how to kick. But when the younger student got in close he immediately ripped my classmates lips, eyebrows, and broke his nose. Around 8 punches to the face he was lying on the floor full of "ketchup". The younger student just suffered a very bruised right thigh. Turns out he was a son of a boxing instructor.
The fact that many of the striking arts gauge themselves to Thai fighters to see their effectiveness shows that Muay Thai was the standard. Muay Thai is the base striking art of MMA along with boxing. Muay Thai is adaptive. It was different in the past but has since evolved to incorporate techniques and training methods of other arts.
I did Taekwondo for 2 years in my teens. The following problems might explain why it's not as effective:
1) you don't learn the most effective techniques which are theoretically part of it because they are considered too dangerous - like knee and elbow techniques. They are included in the books, just not taught by the coaches.
2) it's often not trained to actually fight. More like a stylized type of gymnastics.
3) many of the kicks leave you wide open to counter attacks.
4) theoretically TWD includes all the techniques that MT also has, they're just never trained properly for actual fighting.
That's because most TKD schools teach tournament fighting.
Im a Taekwondo student but is it weird that my master is teaching me how to throw hard and fast punches and blocking and dodging? Because ive heard people say that Taekwondo doesn't have that much defence and blocking.
@@kevingomez2470that’s because you probably so ITF (International Taekwondo Federation) Taekwondo, the original and self-defense focused version. WTF is the sports and tournament version.
Best explanation of that topic, ever, thank you and good night.
It's the conditioning and how they train that makes them so much more dense. Then couple that with poverty and you have yourself a dangerous man.If you're taking traditional martial arts you have to box/kickbox in tandem or you'll end up fooling yourself.
In my high-school we had optional kick boxing classes which was super fun.
These comparisons always strike me as kind of silly. The sport with the fewer rules is always going to win when it comes to martial arts. I can't think of a single example where a martial art with more restrictions ends up producing a better overall fighter.
It makes sense too, how can you defend against something that you've never practiced defending? And if all of your skills make you vulnerable to attacks that you've never trained for it's pretty much a foregone conclusion
Agreed
Then where are the krav maga ufc champs? Sure the eye gouges and ball shots are illegal but if they spar and train with less restrictions the improved defensive awareness and bodily toughness would carry over, like how Joe said the boxer "wanted to fight more than me". Spirit matters massively.
The reason krav maga isn't the best martial art is because you can't effectively train it at full power, practitioners bodies wouldn't last long enough to allow for the long term training needed to *become* a krav maga master and if you wear a face mask and throat protection and so on then you aren't training how you will compete. This is also why bjj is so unreasonably effective despite all the restrictions, players can roll at 99.5% full force and just release the choke or joint lock before permanent damage, allowing them to get comfortable with the feeling of full combat while maintaining the health of their training partners.
Some ppl just cant differentiate the difference between martial arts and fighting. Martial arts is the practice of fighting and fighting is the practical application of martial arts.
Too bad they had to ban knee-clinch spamming in k1 due to overeat
Taekwondo, even Hapkido, approach cult levels of belief. It's incredibly hard to convince these practioners of this.
I finally made time to watch this video, nicely done Lawrence, thank you.
♥ MUAY THAI THE BEST
I'd never actually heard the whole "be like water" clip, that's a charismatic delivery with a good deal of truth to it.
We are in an era when one style is not enough anymore when all styles clash, but there is beauty in mastery of each style and things to love about each one. Be a specialist or generalist or recreational hobbyist, whichever is most rewarding to you. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks about it.
I love it how you merge talking of side kick and spinning back kick, because they fundamentally ARE THE SAME KICK. It is frustrating how we always train like as if they were different kicks and point out useless imaginative differences like " in back kick your kicking leg comes from right next to the supporting leg and heel is supposed to point up while kicking.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOUR HEEL IS POINTING AT. You can fundamentally make side kick and back kick the same way.
Muay Thai currently has a ban on the use of many Muay Thai weapons, especially neck locks and knee strikes, because the largest muscle group is the thigh. Next is the abdomen and then the arms. A complete knee strike in Muay Thai uses at least three muscles, making the attack three times as powerful. and may cause death on the spot If you hit your knee into the chin or nose
1:18 so fast you gotta see it in slow mo
As I was watching this video I was realizing I use a lot of these kicks but I never trained taekwondo or karate.
Watching this has shown why sometimes it would work and why usually it didn’t. Ty
both martial arts have specialties that cant be replicated
The key weakness of TKD (ITF) is that all the kicks are designed for a certain distance. Even when I was trained to use elbows and knees in short distances, it wasn't as emphasized so we were undertrained in those short distance combos.
Grappling were also trained but they were not as emphasized.
My sabonim was very well rounded, and I wonder how he'd have performed against a MuayThai fighter. I think that the main disadvantage for a TKD fighter, who never watched another style, is that the muscle memory is accustomed to TKD based movements so the anticipatory reflex will betray him when a Muay Thai fighter does a novel punch/elbow combo catching him by surprise.
A skilled TKD (ITF) figther who sparred a few times with a Muay Thai fighter, if smart, will learn to match to the opponent's style and prioritize controlling the distance for the kicks to connect appropriately.
So true! I practice ITF as well and knees and elbows need to be worked more on. My sabonim does put some emphasis on these, thankfully. Having studied other martial arts such as thai, indeed the way to be a well rounded fighter is to go through enough martial arts so you will be able to deal with them as well as expand your technique and arsenal. That's not a key weakness of ITF only of course, having knowledge of only one martial art is a key weakness of every martial artist who doesn't expand his horizons.
Taekwondo is an excellent preliminary art, instilling discipline necessary to be a successful mixed practitioner. I was pushed into classes at 11 yr old, then spent 2 years having a horrible time. I was in a lot of fights in school and out, and I am pretty sure that I resorted to punching, and grappling skills, lame as they were, in each. It's just not great for real world fights, but is far from being useless in real world fighting like Tai Chi, or Aikido. Muay Thai, and BJJ are the evolved arts, lessons learned the hard way, and can't be denied their effectiveness. The combination is unbeatable, hence the operative word in MMA, 'Mixed'. Add additional strength training, genetics, Boxing, or simple wrestling, and you might wonder why it's not called Beastmode Combat!
Ah mate, I wish this had even more views. I started out in TKD as well, got my first dan when I was still sixteen and also just ended up quitting around the time I was twenty because I didn't really feel it was going anywhere (I was in the TAGB, so like old style 1980s ITF). I now practice a couple of different martial arts, but yeah I always enjoy watching pro fighters using TKD well. Ultimately it's just like what so, so many have said, if TKD players would spar full contact and learn how to box properly and defend low kicks, it'd be so, so much more effective. Literally no reason these days why people can't do just that.
Well I go to a martial arts school called P3 Martial Arts and our primary form is most likely the ITF style of Taekwondo and our secondary form is jiu jitsu we only do enough jiu jitsu for a basic understanding of how to defend ourselves in those situations, but in our style of Taekwondo training we do much more than just kicking, we also learn blocking, different punching techniques like straight punching, hook punching, upper cuts, we also learned knife hand attacks, palm strikes, and elbow strikes, plus we learned and practiced to a lesser extent choke holds and take downs. We also do breaking, sparring, conditioning.
This is why it’s wise to be good in multiple styles so you’ll be comfortable fighting in any stance you choose since every opponent is different.
These days just using Taekwondo isn’t enough, it’s merely one ingredient to the stew of one’s martial art ability. Combine different aspects of styles like TKD, Kickboxing/Muay Thai, and Boxing all together and you’ll have something special
The higher you kick, the more vulnerable you become, especially if your kick missed the target. Now you are only on one leg to support your whole body which is spinning due to the kicking inertia. A slight push to your leg can quickly cause you to be imbalance and fall down. As simple as that. Focusing on only perfect kick is not a good idea.
Muay Thai is savage power and constant attack. Great thumbnail too mate 👍
i think this was a great and very informative video. Thanks for the great work that was put in to make it.
Yup. I did TKD most my childhood. When I got to high school, I met a group of other martial arts lovers. We used to trade tips with one another and spar. One guy knew Jiu Jitsu and another Muy Thai. I quickly learned that TKD was inefficient against others who are trained. I quit TKD that year. But yea, I did teach them good kicks though. It was awesome for us to mix our styles like that. Eye opening.
Wow really loving the layered oriental music overlays.
It's not that taekwondo kicks were made for power. It's that, for sport they're not taught for power. We're even taught the range of some kick wrong. Taekwondo is as complete a martial art as karate. It's the bare bones version of karate that decided that, kicks were more important than people think, so they were advanced more.
As a guy who’s trained mostly in TKD, then a bit of Muay Thai and wrestling - I can say TKD only brings a few useful tools to the tool box rather than be the box.
BBL managed to make a positive of the weakness of the spinning taekwondo kicks... turning your back to your opponent. He did this by just keep spinning and either follow with a fist or with another kick in one fluid motion. And if it failed he had his toughness to absorb whatever was coming even kicks to the groin, which happen often with these kicks. Beautiful and inspiring.
there is a flip side to this, I still remember the first time I, with a kickboxing background, sparred with a tkd instructor way smaller than me and instantly for hit with kicks from way outside what I thought was his reach.
Not a big fan of your point about spinning attacks. True, if they miss they can leave you vulnerable, but thats virtually everything you do. For Muay Thai, leg kicks leave your head open, body kicks can be caught, and head kicks can leave you very off balance. In MMA, a double leg takedown can put you in one of
the worst positions possible if done poorly or if your opponent can sprawl quickly enough.
I just had my MMA debut and I focused on my boxing and Muay Thai kicks, my opponent started to catch my body kicks, so I threw one over his shoulder off a body kick feint. Its about learning how to use the strengths and weaknesses of different techniques, and when, not how 'objectively' good a technique is in my opinion
for me I would say i love most martial arts. I see tkd as something that is good to be mixed with other martial arts. Im training to gain speed, kick power and keep my fitness. My master always teaches us how to punch like a boxer, defend like a muay thai fighter and make most of our members feel familiar to mix with other martial arts. The good thing about mixing martial arts is respect among each other especially about our views on each fight. Some of the members who were muay thai fighters gave some advice and we did the same for self improvement. For me as a guy who does Taekwondo, if you dont train yourself to use ur hands and legs to defend or fight. You are not going to survive the beatdown. So MIX, try learn other things, and dont think that youre martial arts are way superior than others. Never look down on other martial arts.
Hey just taking a moment to appreciate the wonderful video you made, and express my gratitude.
These are more than entertaining.
It would be great to see more technical analysis in these too. There’s so much to discover.
Aho!
🤙🙏
I like how Rick's brother calls mauy thai out for spamming Low kicks, Meanwhile The rules Restrict Mauy thai to bassicly only Low kicks.
Because it has nothing to do with style but the martial artist accepting all styles have something to offer. What style is the best every style has something to offer and learn from.