Something I feel a lot of people miss is the fact that with this quest, mihoyo finally managed to turn another main character into an unreliable narrator, as is their trademark writing style. The Traveller, up until now, has always been an infallible witness, capable of remembering _everything_ , no matter the circumstance. You can think of it like Teyvat being a computer and the Traveller is the user: even if the computer’s AI (Nahida as the Avatar of Irminsul) deletes and overwrites a file (like when the memory of Rukkhadevata was deleted and overwritten with a new history), the user is outside of the computer, watching, and will remember the deleted files regardless of the efforts of the AI. Now, with this quest, we had a chance to see the Traveller _forget_ due to memory manipulation. The collapsing of a Realm of Consciousness should NOT have tampered with their memory, since with the deletion of Rukkhadevata, so did _her_ RoC disappear, and yet the Traveller still remembers all that happened. This shows that the Loom of Fate exists and manipulates at a dimension higher than not only Irminsul but also the Descenders. If the computer exists at, say, 3 dimensions (2 spatial + time), and the user at 4D (3 spatial + time), then the Loom of Fate must operate at _least_ at 5D, if not higher. The Abyss Order knows this but the Traveller… has forgotten, so they don’t know this. Thus, anything that happens from here on out has the shadow of doubt cast on whether it _actually_ happened as shown or has been tampered with by the Loom. Personally, I doubt they’ll abuse this fact but will instead wait to lull the players into a false sense of security so that everyone forgets this terrifying fact until it becomes most important and we might even just be a little too late. Or not, maybe it’s a red herring and the Traveller will be just fine :) mihoyo is a company of wholesome, heart-warming stories, after all :)
THIS!! This is what scared me most about the quest... the sense of security I had about the legitimacy of the Traveler's memories was shattered so quickly
You make a good point but I disagree to some degree. The realms of consciousness always ejected their guests once the space starts to break down so their was never an opportunity to see what would happen if you are hanging out in a space without its owner, second none of those owners where actually deleted just hidden from normal Irminsul users, like hidden files in Windows. They are still their technical just normal users can see. Since Caribert realm of consciousness was unstable to begin with because it shouldn't have existed and he was an actual component of the loom, once they finished activating it, that space literally went poof. So it's not so much that the travelers memory was altered as that he was writing memories to the game after it already closed. So everything after the last save just didn't take. So although this does introduce the potential for manipulation of the traveler too to a degree I think it really is specific to the situation.
@bakugokatsuki2179 i am scared, our sibling isnt actually our sibling and our memory is manipulated or WE ALREADY FINISHED JOUNREY so many times but we just wake up at spawn point. venti and zhongli seems to know this since remember venti said, OH YOU AGAIN? I DON'T THINK YOU REMEMBER ME 💀
The Traveler has always been an unreliable narrator, made clear in the first Dain quest when they suddenly pop up with talking about how they remembered Khaenri'ah when the idea that they had any memory of it had been entirely unmentioned up until that point. Even Paimon was surprised so the Traveler hadn't talked about it with her either. It's good to remember that the Traveler in the context of the game has their own mind and goals and those may not always be things the player knows because the Traveler isn't actually a self-insert (shown in the cutscene with the Abyss sibling by pointing out that Abyss sibling is the only one to call them by their real name because the name we give them is _not_ their true name).
I just remembered nahida told us that someone super powerful might have messed with the abyss sibling's constellation. With the 5 sinners name dropped in this quest I feel like it might be one of them who did it. I also have a long suspicion that teyvat is actually their homeland, rebuilded. The twins existed from the time far before even the sovereign dragons. But this is just my baseless theory haha.
I personally think The twins and The Priomordial one are from the same world That would certainly answer Why the Sustainer Actually trapped them inside Teyvat instead of Banning them from Teyvat.Our twin might be contingency plan for Celestia, our twin might have lost their original power because HP is using them to heal itself
@@asidsolaiman4231 It would actually makes sense if the Primordial one and the twins came from the same planet or homeland, It would explain how the twins are so compatible with teyvat because the Primordial one likely have built teyvat with the inspiration of their original homeland
Since the travelers were in the celestia in the beginning of the story, from where they're trapped by the heavenly principles there's something it points to. Either, celestia is the entrance to Teyvat or they're already in the celestia to fight? Probably the twin knows that they're no match for celestia and needs reinforcements. That's why he needs the power from the abyss. The Fatui is on another mission. Their goal may be is to ressurect the 3rd descender from whose remains gnoses are made. I also suspect paimon being the 3rd descender because she's the one who leads us. She's the one who knows the way. No local is able to lead us like her. She knows the way to all the regions. Doesn't it mean she's already been through Teyvat? Just like the twin? And happened to get into a child's form when her powers were seized to create the gnoses. A similar thing that happened to Rukkhadevata.
Makes sense why Dain is so heartbroken about the traveler's sister. She betrayed him and sided with the abyss, much like his brother and those in power in Khanrieah
@@Iris0331 Or...how about the burning of Irminsul is so the Loom of Fate can reweave a new world in it's place? Travail trailer can even play a factor in this because dainsleif says to the traveler in the trailer "Then, the threads of all fate will be yours to reweave"
I have some interesting thoughts in my head. 1. The Abyss Order might target the Seven Dragon Sovereigns next. Since the loom of fate can affect the Ley Lines, elemental dragons can also affect Ley Lines, and the fact that the Seven Sovereigns are the most powerful elemental dragons in the world, maybe they're gonna become targets next. 2. I wonder if the sibling will have a darker apperance to match the Abyss. 3. What are Zhongli and Venti hiding from us? 4. I think the Sibling was meant to rule Teyvat but the Abyss Order and the sinners got to them and now the Traveler has to take up as Teyvat's new ruler
I wonder; How long will it be until the MC’s Twin realizes that they are nothing more than a Pawn in the hands of the Khaenrhi’ahns? When will they begin to fight back? Will they fight back?
@@WhiteKoneko if the MC manages to Rescue their Twin from the Khaenrhi’ahns, the Sibling is going to have to take some time for Self Reflection on how they got manipulated into serving Khaenrhi’ah’s interests at the expense of the Other Inhabitants of Teyvat and figure out how they can Avoid similar situations in the Future…
@@EthHawke94 That's if they survive yes. But this is hoyo I'm not holding my breath!! They'll give us the happy only to rip our hearts out seconds later with emotional damage. 😢
This is very true, which is why I wanted to make this video to try to bridge that gap for people who maybe wanted to enjoy it but just knew too little. Hopefully I helped a few folks.
Here’s a general lore theory of something that might be common knowledge, but I’ve never heard mentioned. I think the two things you need to control the fate of Teyvat are a God and a Sword of Reason (usually a descender). Since the beginning of the game, the Fatui and the Abyss have both been working on God creation in the background. Hell, it’s the entire reason cited in the pale flame set for Dottore being recruited to the Fatui. Contrast the attempt to corrupt and control Osial with Balladeer as the God of Wisdom. Both of these were just prototypes, though. Meanwhile, both sides are also working on constructing their own “Sword of Reason”. The Abyss needs forged one by making the loom of fate, meanwhile the Fatui are gathering the pieces of a descender - probably for the purpose of forging their own. Narzissenkreuz attempted the same thing. Gods collect the will/worship of their people, and he was attempting to entirely subsume the people of Fontaine. Once that was completed, he would have been a God (in the process of forging his own Sword of Reason.) This was the only way he saw to escape fate - being able to rewrite it. Lends some credence to all the theories suggesting Paimon is a god (who knows which one though, lol). Because that would give us both a descender and a God in our faction as well.
Paimon is 100% a god, there are a bunch of hints in game that she has ties to celestia, down to her very design. Hell, she even jokes in the traveler's voicelines about being the god of protection, and that might actually not be too far-fetched from what she actually is So if your theory is correct, then we already have all elements to control fate in our hands, to "reweave fate" as dainsleif said in travail. Maybe the Loom of Fate plays a big factor in this aswell
I think the Loom was always supposed to be completed, because it will be required later on when a certain doctor will do something evil and bring disaster. Also, remember that only a descender can fully utilize the Loom of Fate, and I don't think Khaenri'ah's plan to revive the 3rd will work(if that even is their plan), leaving Aether the only one capable of saving Teyvat.
I was rewatching the winter nights lazzo as I was editing this and I realized that when Pierro said "the sages think themselves all knowing but we alone are wise to those acts of folly" he was absolutely talking about the sinners and their plan isn't exactly his plan. I don't think they want to resurrect the third descender I think they need all the gnosis to construct something powerful enough to burn the entirety of the roots of Teyvat. Effectively destroying the whole world which would seem to be a foolish thing to do. And they keep talking about the old world and the new world. I don't think the Fatui want a leyline system at all, because that's were the preordained lives that everyone is running from starts. They probably want to go back to the dragon world system which is from the light realm rather than the leyline realm. And they are aware that the Abyss has no favorites and will devouring everyone and everything equally. It like the Finality all it wants is to push everyone towards the realization and acceptance of Death. Lumine is truly messing with something she doesn't understand. Also it's interesting that the title for this update and quest pertains to dreams and stories but in the picture only Lumine is asleep. Aether and Dain are awake and know what's really going on.
why do i think, we as traveler gonna team up with the futui since we are only hope to them imo. the way every harbinger was bit "caring" towards us or can say friendly? is kind of sus cuz they KNOW we are decender. i honestly feel, somehow we gon get info about all the evil about the celes throught the ley line and we gonna team up with the doctor to burn the irminsul. because in cut scene we can see doctor and irminsul both so i think we must be there too
given what dain says "you must defeat me to save her and rewrite fate yourself". This could mean that all these factions want to rewrite fate for their own reasons. So the traveller will likely have to remove all these factions 1 sinner at a time to get to the point where dain says these words. The big factions we know of are The hexenzirkel(gold), the abyss order(verdofnir), The fatui (?), The archons(?). With a possibility some of the big 5 are working together or may have even perished.
For the archons, it's celestia, and for the fatui, it's the tsaritsa/harbingers. Not to mention the dragon sovereigns... didn't they have a dragon king?
Is it only me but IMO personally, your voice is so soothing and well suited to recite or read a whole story book. You are naturally gifted in this one. Thank you for the content.❤
I know they are brother and sister, but I have always hated the way the abyss sibling acts towards the MC. It's abundantly clear that the MC is almost moved to tears whenever they see each other, but the abyss sibling just acts like they could care less about them (with maybe the exception in this quest?). Maybe it's just a body language thing to me, but the abyss sibling just seems like they aren't really reciprocating the same level of care towards the MC and I hate that. That's all 😅
i know exactly what you mean and i completely agree. Especially during the aborted hug in Caribert's memory space. They just seemed as though it was all a joke to them. Plus when you see the cut scene in Cloud Retainer's story quest when they imagine meeting up together you realize just how much nicer and kinder they seem in their siblings imagination.
@theunlikelygenshingamer exactly!! Whenever I see their interactions, I'm just like, "Wait one damn minute! You get over there, and you cry like any other normal person who realizes how loved they are would cry, and because you miss them. You do it and you do it RIGHT NOW!" 🤣🤣
The animated short that got released recently at least does show the Abyss sibling cares just as deeply. It would seem that in the game they feel they can't let that show.
@@theunlikelygenshingamerdon't pit my abyss princess lumine like that- she did care for aether in the memory space but it would be pointless and useless since aether is just ganna forget the whole Convo, also at the reunited quest, lumine/aether depends on who u chose the abyss twin will not stop until the abyss has engulfed the throne, so moreover the abyss twin has like some duty or mission in khaenriah? But anyways u guys are shallow as heck,
i left this comment on a few videos after the bedtime story quest came out cause i wanna see what others think.... I wonder if…… aether and lumine’s original home world…… is teyvat? but they just don’t recognize it? their home world was destroyed, but lumine “belongs to THIS world”, and we know the primordial one came and basically destroyed the original teyvat and rewrote it… the twins also wanted to find a place where the flower from their now-destroyed home world grows, and at the end of lumine’s journey through the rewritten teyvat, she found the place, on this “new” world. there are the theories that the new teyvat is a dream, and the “forbidden knowledge” that its denizens cannot understand is that the real teyvat is actually destroyed and they’re now living in a fake dream world. when apep ate deshret and absorbed his knowledge, all she could see was death and destruction and wasteland, as if she was peering outside of the dream and seeing the “truth of the world”, but it was so jarring that she cannot understand and it just causes her pain. the truth breaks down the dream, which causes all the adverse effects we’ve seen in game (withering, eleazar, etc). if i remember correctly, lumine also refused to link up with aether because he has not yet reached the end of his journey and learned the truth that she learned at the end of hers. maybe she hates the heavenly principles and she is determined to fight this war by any means necessary, because at the end of her journey when she found the sea of inteyvats, she realized that this is actually her original home world, but the heavenly principles destroyed it and trapped everyone in a dream/samsara to cover up the truth, and to have control over everyone. so now lumine is determined to fight for her homeland, and is waiting for aether to finish his journey, learn the truth, and understand why she has “taken it this far”, in the hopes that he will see where she’s coming from and join her. I COULD ALSO just be COMPLETELY wrong and missing a bunch of details, but that’s the theory that popped into my head when she mentioned the sea of flowers!!!!!
The issue with forbidden knowledge being the truth of teyvat, is that Apep was one of the original dragon sovereigns, and can still remember the war against the primordial one, so they shouldn’t be surprised by the truth, I feel like he forbidden knowledge might instead be the fact that they are inside the samsara cycle instead of learning the truth of teyvat’s history
I have an alternative theory: Teyvat was made up of two Worlds, one is the Stable Old Dragon Ruled Teyvat while the other Unstable Quanta Fueled Lumine's and Aether's Old World anchored together. Hear me out why: The idea of two World anchored together is nothing new & hinted from Honkai 3rd Bubble Worlds anchored together, to HSR Izumo & Tataragami literally mesh with one another. The Idea why I thought Lumine's, Aether's and probably the PO Old World too is the Abyss: Inteyvat only withers on their Homeland / Homeworld, Aether's & Lumine's World have such flowers. Aether & Lumine were associated with the Abyss, calling them prince / princess by the Khanreans, knowing that they are royalties of this Old World / The Abyss. I speculated that the PO used the power of the Abyss / Quanta from his Home World too, to wage war against Old Teyvat. The same power that Nibulung, King Irmin, and the Sinners acquired against the Heavenly Principles. And anchored them together to have both the power of destruction / Quanta & creation / Imaginary, also new stable world. To surpress both world, the praise Teyvat corrupts the Abyss & vice versa were true, the light realm power of Dragons & Abyss destructive power.
While Forbidden Knowledge were probably the dilusions that the PO is scared of, and plague Teyvat after the War of Vengeance. Dilusions were probably came from Nibulung after his death, like God residue cursing the whole of Teyvat. The PO probably sealed it away after the nails were dropped onto Teyvat.
This is supported by how the edges of the map dissolve into turquoise, much like many other things that exist on an... immaginary level; like Caribert's avatar, playable characters when they go down etc.
As much as I have issues with the way the story was told in this interlude, I do think the information about the Sinners is going to be extremely important going forward. With each passing nation I see more and more people flock to "the Heavenly Principles are the real enemy, not the Fatui or Abyss Order"... and I really, really can't agree - if anything, I think that would be the more predictable answer, given Celestia is the only major player we've never interacted with directly aside from the intro scene. With the information we have up until now, it seems that unless Forbidden Knowledge is involved, the HP seem pretty okay with most "rebellions" against it (such as allowing King Deshret's nation to exist despite him refusing a Gnosis outright, or being fine with Orobashi basically leading his own nation until he found the forbidden book, plus Khaenri'ah itself, which was a godless nation to begin with). So while the factions seeking to dethrone might have good intentions (keyword might), I'm pretty sure it's gonna end up doing more harm than good. So where do the Sinners come into play? Well, we do have that teaser of the seven nation that ends with Dain implying we'll need to fight him at some point. I think the last few arcs are going to pit us against the Sinners one by one, ending with the Twilight Sword himself. They will be the final enemies of the game, not the HP. As a last sidenote, didn't people datamine 5 unused elements with placeholder data in the game during Fontaine? Maybe the Khaenri'ah arc could last longer than we originally thought.
Interesting*, so maybe Khaenri'ah's act number being obfuscated could have more implications than just looking mysterious. There could be more chapters hidden after the 7 nations, dedicated to the sinners, and thus khaenri'ah may not be act vii
So the heavenly principles dont care aslong as no one threatens their griphold on teyvat. Thats basically textbook bad guy. To me it seems all factions have varying amounts of evil and good in them. The abyss has the sinners. But it also has people who wish to help the hilichurls. The fatui has dottore. But it also has good people like the captain. Celestia has the heavenly principles. But the gods we have met dont seem to be bad people. Infact most of them try to dissassociate with the heavenly principles. Id say the abyss and the heavenly principles are equally evil, whereas the fatui somehow manage to be the least evil faction in this game 💀💀💀. Its quite telling that literally all the archons are trying to put asmuch distance between them and the heavenly principles.
@@nabilshah9184 Not really, though? Like I said, the HP don't even seem to care about whether or not the gods properly uphold the power structure they've created (as seen with Deshret) or if there are nations outside of their control (Enkanomiya and Khaenri'ah). They only move when people try to tap into the Abyss. So far all we have on the HP is that they deploy Celestial Nails when abyssal corruption becomes too much. Hell, if the Prophecy in Fontaine was caused by the whale and prophesized by Vedrfolnir, then even that might not actually be the HP's fault. Besides that, all they've done is... take the power from the Sovereigns (presumably so humans could live in Teyvat) and some vague stuff about them controlling fate/Teyvat's fake sky that has yet to be explained. And as a reminder, we've yet to encounter someone who belongs to the faction of celestia proper so it's not like we know their side of the story. So yeah, with each passing update, the idea that the heavenly principles are unambiguously evil becomes more and more unreliable. If anything, the Abyss is shaping up to be the real threat, and despite Arlecchino and possibly Capitano, let's not forget that the Fatui are responsible for a lot of inhumane acts.
@@nabilshah9184 Not really, though? So far, the only "evil deeds" we can reliably attribute to the HP is taking the power from the Sovereigns (presumably to make Teyvat inhabitable for humans) and sending Celestial Nails (and whatever the red cubes in Khaenri'ah were) when Abyssal corruption gets too bad. Plus the whole "fake sky" and "controlling fate" thing, which has not yet been properly explained and even then it's by Pierro and Dottore, far from the most reliable narrators. Heck, even the Prophecy in Fontaine and the Curse of the Wilderness might not actually be their fault (the former was actually caused by the whale and prophesized by Vedrfolnir, not Celestia; and the latter could have just been a consequence of Khaenrians tampering with Abyssal power, as we saw with Jacob during Fontaine). Otherwise they don't really seem to care about anyone "threatening their griphold", as evidenced by the Deshret, Enkanomiya and Khaenri'ah examples I gave in the first comment. Plus the fact that the closest thing to Celestia-aligned characters are the Archons, but so far only two seem to know the full truth (Venti and Zhongli) and they won't tell us. So there have been practically no opportunities to hear Celestia's side of the story yet. So while I don't think they're necessarily good, I also think them being unambiguously evil (or even that they're "more evil" than the Abyss and the Fatui) is a red herring.
@@thestrigshow 1) dottore is a reliable narrator. hes a cold cut sociopath. He doesnt care for anything except research making him ironically a good narrator since he has no bias. 2) Pierro is also a reliable narrator. He hates both the abyss and the HP, making him a middle man 3) I am saying the reason the HP is evil is due to their "greater good" stance. theyre willing to kill off innocents to make sure that teyvat cant overthrow or threaten the principles. For sure, the hp are doing this most likely to protect from the honkai, but teyvat citizens arent children and deserve freedom to do what they want. If the honkai are the problem, tell the archons and let everyone decide whether they want things to stay the same or not. They are also the reason that so many people end up rebelling. Being so secretive and posing as the bad guy to the point that even the archons are distancing themselves, is the exact reason why people end up accessing dangerous powers to try and overthrow them through drastic means. Another point adding on to the honkai. The HP cant hope to handle the honkai alone anyway if the honkai are a problem to the hi3 verse. So even more I think that no matter their reasons, theyre just causing more discourse and problems.
I think that's just the word that keeps getting used because they appear to be inactive. It's a lot easier to say, "they're asleep," than, "a lot of stuff has happened lately that they totally would have responded to before the Cataclysm but nobody's heard a thing from them in five hundred years but we're pretty sure they aren't dead."
loved this quest a lot, it was actually really dynamic, I was tuned in fro each and every line of it which doesn't happen often with my easy to get bored mind
I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about Rhinedottir and how she is apparently a welcome member of the Hexenzirkel. We think they must be okay because Klee's mom is part of it, and Klee's mom loves Klee. But you gotta wonder. Just what are they doing? Who are the 4 men we've seen in drawings of the Hexenzirkel (4 women and what looks to be 4 male figures)?
I'm wondering about that too. Especially since in that one wind glider description, it is heavily implied that Alice shares the goal of maintaining Teyvat's borders with the Heavenly Principles. So we have her working with Celestia on one side, and hanging out and spilling tea with Gold on the other side.
I’ve never thought Klee’s mom was a good person. She’s a part of an organization who wanted to start a pointless war with a god because they were bored, completely indifferent to the consequences of this. Plus she’s not a good mom. She dumped the responsibility of raising her crazy arsonist child on Jean, who already has her hands full running an entire nation, and she went off to explore Teyvat alone, only returning every now and then and giving Klee extravagant gifts to make sure Klee still loves her. And she’s avoiding the traveler on purpose, so she’s hiding something.
i wonder what party will succeed in the end, my bet is that everyone will fail or lose to hp and it will be the duty of our reunited twins to bring down celestia
I think so too, like how in the case of King Remus, all the rebellion he came up with, it was already preordained that he would do all of what he did so he lost anyway. All he could do is accept that. Only a descender can really get out of the loop, and the Heavenly Principles is a descender too so that battle isn't going to be easy.
Ok I have to point this out. The Heavenly Principles and The Sustainer Of Heavenly Principles are two different entities. I think it’s important to point out that when Lumine asks the god who she is, the god says SUSTAINER of heavenly principles, she doesn’t say she is the heavenly principles herself. The meaning of sustainer means someone who upholds or supports something. So by name, The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles supports the actual HP but isn’t the actual HP herself. Also. Lumine says the HP has been(I think she said sleep or something since the cataclysm) but if that’s case how did she attack the twins? The Sustainer and The HP are different gods altogether. Nahida mentioned when The Heavenly Principles changed the fate of the twins. I think the Heavenly Principles ordered the Sustainer to go after the twins. I also think that the actual Heavenly Principles ordered the Sustainer to destroy Khaenri’ah instead of doing it himself/herself. The Heavenly Principles also waged war against the Seven Sovereigns and stole elemental authority to give to the Archons and that probably took away an indescribable amount of power for The Heavenly Principles to do something on that scale and then regarding the Archon War and the Cataclysm in Khaenri’ah, The HP probably still didn’t have the power to directly intervene which would also tie into why he/she sent the sustainer to Khaenri’ah in the first place. We barely scratched the surface on who The Heavenly Principles are let alone their powers but we have a small grasp of what The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles are capable of because those dark swarms of red cubes that she used against the twins were the same ones that were seen when Khaenri’ah met its unfortunate end which leads me to believe that it was in fact The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles who attacked Khaenri’ah because in the time between its destruction and the twins getting attacked by her, The Heavenly Principles would’ve still been sleep and at this point The Heavenly Principles has been asleep for way longer than 500 years because we don’t know how much time has passed since the destruction of Khaenri’ah
True, but the sustained could be part of the heavenly principles. What do mean by that? Well, I you remember the opening cutscene, the first time we meet the sustainer, she appears through a portal, but it isn't a single portal, it's a 3 door portal (does that make sense?) , implying that whenever that portal appears, it's meant for 3 heavenly beings to appear, however, that is not the case, only the sustainer walks out of it. What could this mean? Tbh I'm not really sure, but this could be implying that the heavenly principles consisted of 3 entities ( or moon sisters, who knows :) ?), and that the sustainer was supposed to rule or keep in check the other 2 entities. Clearly something happened and they are not united anymore leaving only the sustainer to rule the heavenly principles. That's why I feel like people keep interchanging the "sustainer" and "the heavenly principles"... That or paimon is just the heavenly principles but shrinked.
> Nahida mentioned when The Heavenly Principles changed the fate of the twins. She actually said that the Traveler should be able to remember the entity that changed her fate - therefore the SHP = HP
@@theunlikelygenshingamer yes you don't get "emotional" in a sense when you're speaking which makes it easier for me to digest the info you're spilling. If you take suggestions, please make a video someday covering the entire timeline of tevyat that we know so far. Thank you and more power for your channel!
@weomeow26 thanks, it's nice to know what I'm doing right lol. As for your suggestion, thanks, I've actually been wanting to do just that, I just wasn't sure how many people would be interested since other TH-camrs have had their go at it. But I feel more like I should now especially with a new world around the corner. Thanks again
Except the 5 sinners name and the power of loom of fate there is nothing much about lore or any questions left like other Dainsleif quest do. Honestly in my opinion this archon quest is pretty much simple just like a bedtime story.
Ive always compared the twin you pick to King Arthur and your abyss sibling to Mordred, with good reason. Those unfamiliar, Mordred and Arthur eventually fought each other with their respective holy blades. Some versions this was instant killed for both. While in others Mordred was killed by Arthur but severely injured by Mordred. Arthur was taken to Avalon rest and said to return when world needed him again most. Guess that'd make Dainslief our Merlin or something i guess? Lmao 😂
I wonder how many times our memory was tampered with - after all Cariber says that this is the last time it is used. I think there were instances in the story where we get a similar headache - usually with us either remembering something or seeing something.
The only memory wipe was just not remembering what happened at the point when they were still in Caribert mind space without him in it. Otherwise his memory can't be wiped. But let's remember Lumine's can and she still thinks she has the full picture.
I can actually get behind that idea. She is very likely the key to something but not sure what. I don't think however that she is the Heavenly Principles themself.
On a meta level, can a Descender wield power on par with the Loom of Fate? Say…wish that the companions they had met joined them on their journey across Teyvat??
I have to agree with you even though the popular opinion is to hate them. I actually wonder who is it that Genshin wants to portray as the villain or if they are purposely leaving it very vague which side you should choose. The only real enemy I think is the Abyss or true Death.
I kinda hate that this quest is super short and mostly uneventful. I miss the first Dain quest we had where we had to fight for our life trying to escape and enter that domain and fight our first Abyss Lector.
The Traveler is unaffected by Irminsul because their status as a Descender places them outside of the things that Irminsul has control over. The Loom of Fate is also outside of Irminsul's control since it can make its own Ley Lines unaffiliated with those created by Irminsul. I would imagine if the Loom of Fate became a new world tree to replace Irminsul, the Traveler would no longer have Descender status because they would be a part of the world woven by the Loom of Fate. Which...may be what happened to the sibling if this is some sort of ongoing cycle.
The whole quest wasn't a dream though. Only that last little bit of conversation with Lumine after Caribert dissipated. Everything else was recorded and Aether know that they lost the battle to stop the loom of fate from being complete. He just isn't going to remember getting to talk to her.
Is it possible that the Fatui will burn the Irminsul to effectively blind Celestia from dictating fate? Then somehow the abyss will utilize this to create their own Leylines and be left uncorrected since theoriginal leylines from irminsul is deleted or some sort?
I would be surprised if this is the plan to be honest. That would line up with what Pierro said about the sages thinking that they all knowing but the Fatui know the real value behind what they are doing. I sense it's time to go back over everything because new stuff always comes to light and starts to make sense after a quest like this.
I don't get why there are only five sinners. Hoyo has by now established that the natural selection of the Imaginary tree, whichever form it takes, manifests in twelve instances. Whether it's the Herrschers, both in GGZ and HI3, or Sentinels from Acheron's world. No matter how you look at it, the sinners, who have taken the power of the Abyss, are the "manifestation" of that selective force, an analog of Herrschers. So, why aren't there seven more?
I was thinking this too. I didn't know this lore about the imaginary tree but maybe there are entities we haven't met yet who will add to these that we have met
@@lyn6852 Dendro Archons can affect memories through the Irminsul (big pink tree from Sumeru storyline). Caribert affected memories using the power of Abyss, which was an unfinished "Loom of Fate". Now that it was completed, you can think of it as of the Abyss Order's ability to hack reality, fate and people normally "generated" by Irminsul. While they can't directly change the reality, they can create it, and through it affect future outcomes.
In terms of their both being gone. Rukkadevata was literally hidden from everyone who derives their memories from the leylines. So tampering with the leylines could wipe her out of the records. Caribert only existed for a short while in the leylines natural, then he just occupied a space in it where he could mess around with the rest of it. Of course he couldnt give the traveler false memories because he isn't beholden to the leylines. He was just visiting his mental space. When that mental space got deleted, no more memories could have been saved in it but the traveler was still present. Think of when you maybe save and then exit a gamd but the computer kind of lags so you can run around for a few more seconds before really closes and none of that was saved. Caribert though wasn't wiped, he just died in the leylines too now, Greater Lord Rukkadevata was wiped. Hope that answered you question but if not feel free to ask, I like explaining 😁
Thanks for the explanations~ So this really means that the abyss is the reason why our siblings irminsul record was cut off? Becoz this previous leylines memories in dains quest are before our sibling join the abyss...?
Something I feel a lot of people miss is the fact that with this quest, mihoyo finally managed to turn another main character into an unreliable narrator, as is their trademark writing style. The Traveller, up until now, has always been an infallible witness, capable of remembering _everything_ , no matter the circumstance. You can think of it like Teyvat being a computer and the Traveller is the user: even if the computer’s AI (Nahida as the Avatar of Irminsul) deletes and overwrites a file (like when the memory of Rukkhadevata was deleted and overwritten with a new history), the user is outside of the computer, watching, and will remember the deleted files regardless of the efforts of the AI.
Now, with this quest, we had a chance to see the Traveller _forget_ due to memory manipulation. The collapsing of a Realm of Consciousness should NOT have tampered with their memory, since with the deletion of Rukkhadevata, so did _her_ RoC disappear, and yet the Traveller still remembers all that happened. This shows that the Loom of Fate exists and manipulates at a dimension higher than not only Irminsul but also the Descenders. If the computer exists at, say, 3 dimensions (2 spatial + time), and the user at 4D (3 spatial + time), then the Loom of Fate must operate at _least_ at 5D, if not higher. The Abyss Order knows this but the Traveller… has forgotten, so they don’t know this.
Thus, anything that happens from here on out has the shadow of doubt cast on whether it _actually_ happened as shown or has been tampered with by the Loom. Personally, I doubt they’ll abuse this fact but will instead wait to lull the players into a false sense of security so that everyone forgets this terrifying fact until it becomes most important and we might even just be a little too late.
Or not, maybe it’s a red herring and the Traveller will be just fine :) mihoyo is a company of wholesome, heart-warming stories, after all :)
THIS!! This is what scared me most about the quest... the sense of security I had about the legitimacy of the Traveler's memories was shattered so quickly
You make a good point but I disagree to some degree. The realms of consciousness always ejected their guests once the space starts to break down so their was never an opportunity to see what would happen if you are hanging out in a space without its owner, second none of those owners where actually deleted just hidden from normal Irminsul users, like hidden files in Windows. They are still their technical just normal users can see.
Since Caribert realm of consciousness was unstable to begin with because it shouldn't have existed and he was an actual component of the loom, once they finished activating it, that space literally went poof.
So it's not so much that the travelers memory was altered as that he was writing memories to the game after it already closed. So everything after the last save just didn't take.
So although this does introduce the potential for manipulation of the traveler too to a degree I think it really is specific to the situation.
@bakugokatsuki2179 i am scared, our sibling isnt actually our sibling and our memory is manipulated or WE ALREADY FINISHED JOUNREY so many times but we just wake up at spawn point. venti and zhongli seems to know this since remember venti said, OH YOU AGAIN? I DON'T THINK YOU REMEMBER ME 💀
The Traveler has always been an unreliable narrator, made clear in the first Dain quest when they suddenly pop up with talking about how they remembered Khaenri'ah when the idea that they had any memory of it had been entirely unmentioned up until that point. Even Paimon was surprised so the Traveler hadn't talked about it with her either. It's good to remember that the Traveler in the context of the game has their own mind and goals and those may not always be things the player knows because the Traveler isn't actually a self-insert (shown in the cutscene with the Abyss sibling by pointing out that Abyss sibling is the only one to call them by their real name because the name we give them is _not_ their true name).
I just remembered nahida told us that someone super powerful might have messed with the abyss sibling's constellation. With the 5 sinners name dropped in this quest I feel like it might be one of them who did it.
I also have a long suspicion that teyvat is actually their homeland, rebuilded. The twins existed from the time far before even the sovereign dragons. But this is just my baseless theory haha.
I personally think The twins and The Priomordial one are from the same world
That would certainly answer Why the Sustainer Actually trapped them inside Teyvat instead of Banning them from Teyvat.Our twin might be contingency plan for Celestia,
our twin might have lost their original power because HP is using them to heal itself
@@asidsolaiman4231 It would actually makes sense if the Primordial one and the twins came from the same planet or homeland, It would explain how the twins are so compatible with teyvat because the Primordial one likely have built teyvat with the inspiration of their original homeland
i thought it's obvious that the one she was talking about was Vedrfolnir?
Since the travelers were in the celestia in the beginning of the story, from where they're trapped by the heavenly principles there's something it points to. Either, celestia is the entrance to Teyvat or they're already in the celestia to fight? Probably the twin knows that they're no match for celestia and needs reinforcements. That's why he needs the power from the abyss. The Fatui is on another mission. Their goal may be is to ressurect the 3rd descender from whose remains gnoses are made. I also suspect paimon being the 3rd descender because she's the one who leads us. She's the one who knows the way. No local is able to lead us like her. She knows the way to all the regions. Doesn't it mean she's already been through Teyvat? Just like the twin? And happened to get into a child's form when her powers were seized to create the gnoses. A similar thing that happened to Rukkhadevata.
@@asidsolaiman4231 honestly, that's what I've been thinking too
Makes sense why Dain is so heartbroken about the traveler's sister. She betrayed him and sided with the abyss, much like his brother and those in power in Khanrieah
why i think dain is the hero and we all are villian atp lol
Even tho the Loom of Fate cannot rewrite or destroy existing leylines, it may be the only weaver of fate remaining after Dottore burns Irminsul
Either that, or he burns it down so the Abyss Order will have no leylines to weave, making the Loom useless or in need of a reconfiguration
@@Iris0331 Or...how about the burning of Irminsul is so the Loom of Fate can reweave a new world in it's place?
Travail trailer can even play a factor in this because dainsleif says to the traveler in the trailer "Then, the threads of all fate will be yours to reweave"
@@daridon2483 my only issue with that is the Fatui seem to be against the Abyss, so I don't think they'd do that for them
I have some interesting thoughts in my head.
1. The Abyss Order might target the Seven Dragon Sovereigns next. Since the loom of fate can affect the Ley Lines, elemental dragons can also affect Ley Lines, and the fact that the Seven Sovereigns are the most powerful elemental dragons in the world, maybe they're gonna become targets next.
2. I wonder if the sibling will have a darker apperance to match the Abyss.
3. What are Zhongli and Venti hiding from us?
4. I think the Sibling was meant to rule Teyvat but the Abyss Order and the sinners got to them and now the Traveler has to take up as Teyvat's new ruler
I wonder; How long will it be until the MC’s Twin realizes that they are nothing more than a Pawn in the hands of the Khaenrhi’ahns? When will they begin to fight back? Will they fight back?
I don't think they're gonna realize it soon. It seems that the Abyss has gotten to them. They are now the ruler of Darkness
I honestly think it's too late. Abyss has heavy hold on our sibling and they're not same after 500yrs of this. They lack the will we do.
@@WhiteKoneko if the MC manages to Rescue their Twin from the Khaenrhi’ahns, the Sibling is going to have to take some time for Self Reflection on how they got manipulated into serving Khaenrhi’ah’s interests at the expense of the Other Inhabitants of Teyvat and figure out how they can Avoid similar situations in the Future…
@@EthHawke94 That's if they survive yes. But this is hoyo I'm not holding my breath!! They'll give us the happy only to rip our hearts out seconds later with emotional damage. 😢
Why on earth would you think the Sibling is "a Pawn in the hands of the Khaenri'ans"? They lead the entire Order. Make sense.
This quest's appeal scales with the person's knowledge of the lore
This is very true, which is why I wanted to make this video to try to bridge that gap for people who maybe wanted to enjoy it but just knew too little. Hopefully I helped a few folks.
@@theunlikelygenshingamer yep if only the quest was longer
Here’s a general lore theory of something that might be common knowledge, but I’ve never heard mentioned.
I think the two things you need to control the fate of Teyvat are a God and a Sword of Reason (usually a descender).
Since the beginning of the game, the Fatui and the Abyss have both been working on God creation in the background. Hell, it’s the entire reason cited in the pale flame set for Dottore being recruited to the Fatui. Contrast the attempt to corrupt and control Osial with Balladeer as the God of Wisdom. Both of these were just prototypes, though.
Meanwhile, both sides are also working on constructing their own “Sword of Reason”. The Abyss needs forged one by making the loom of fate, meanwhile the Fatui are gathering the pieces of a descender - probably for the purpose of forging their own.
Narzissenkreuz attempted the same thing. Gods collect the will/worship of their people, and he was attempting to entirely subsume the people of Fontaine. Once that was completed, he would have been a God (in the process of forging his own Sword of Reason.) This was the only way he saw to escape fate - being able to rewrite it.
Lends some credence to all the theories suggesting Paimon is a god (who knows which one though, lol). Because that would give us both a descender and a God in our faction as well.
Paimon is 100% a god, there are a bunch of hints in game that she has ties to celestia, down to her very design. Hell, she even jokes in the traveler's voicelines about being the god of protection, and that might actually not be too far-fetched from what she actually is
So if your theory is correct, then we already have all elements to control fate in our hands, to "reweave fate" as dainsleif said in travail. Maybe the Loom of Fate plays a big factor in this aswell
I think the Loom was always supposed to be completed, because it will be required later on when a certain doctor will do something evil and bring disaster.
Also, remember that only a descender can fully utilize the Loom of Fate, and I don't think Khaenri'ah's plan to revive the 3rd will work(if that even is their plan), leaving Aether the only one capable of saving Teyvat.
I was rewatching the winter nights lazzo as I was editing this and I realized that when Pierro said "the sages think themselves all knowing but we alone are wise to those acts of folly" he was absolutely talking about the sinners and their plan isn't exactly his plan.
I don't think they want to resurrect the third descender I think they need all the gnosis to construct something powerful enough to burn the entirety of the roots of Teyvat. Effectively destroying the whole world which would seem to be a foolish thing to do.
And they keep talking about the old world and the new world.
I don't think the Fatui want a leyline system at all, because that's were the preordained lives that everyone is running from starts.
They probably want to go back to the dragon world system which is from the light realm rather than the leyline realm.
And they are aware that the Abyss has no favorites and will devouring everyone and everything equally. It like the Finality all it wants is to push everyone towards the realization and acceptance of Death.
Lumine is truly messing with something she doesn't understand.
Also it's interesting that the title for this update and quest pertains to dreams and stories but in the picture only Lumine is asleep. Aether and Dain are awake and know what's really going on.
why do i think, we as traveler gonna team up with the futui since we are only hope to them imo. the way every harbinger was bit "caring" towards us or can say friendly? is kind of sus cuz they KNOW we are decender. i honestly feel, somehow we gon get info about all the evil about the celes throught the ley line and we gonna team up with the doctor to burn the irminsul. because in cut scene we can see doctor and irminsul both so i think we must be there too
given what dain says "you must defeat me to save her and rewrite fate yourself". This could mean that all these factions want to rewrite fate for their own reasons. So the traveller will likely have to remove all these factions 1 sinner at a time to get to the point where dain says these words.
The big factions we know of are The hexenzirkel(gold), the abyss order(verdofnir), The fatui (?), The archons(?). With a possibility some of the big 5 are working together or may have even perished.
For the archons, it's celestia, and for the fatui, it's the tsaritsa/harbingers. Not to mention the dragon sovereigns... didn't they have a dragon king?
Is it only me but IMO personally, your voice is so soothing and well suited to recite or read a whole story book. You are naturally gifted in this one. Thank you for the content.❤
Thank you!😁
I know they are brother and sister, but I have always hated the way the abyss sibling acts towards the MC. It's abundantly clear that the MC is almost moved to tears whenever they see each other, but the abyss sibling just acts like they could care less about them (with maybe the exception in this quest?). Maybe it's just a body language thing to me, but the abyss sibling just seems like they aren't really reciprocating the same level of care towards the MC and I hate that. That's all 😅
i know exactly what you mean and i completely agree. Especially during the aborted hug in Caribert's memory space. They just seemed as though it was all a joke to them.
Plus when you see the cut scene in Cloud Retainer's story quest when they imagine meeting up together you realize just how much nicer and kinder they seem in their siblings imagination.
@theunlikelygenshingamer exactly!! Whenever I see their interactions, I'm just like, "Wait one damn minute! You get over there, and you cry like any other normal person who realizes how loved they are would cry, and because you miss them. You do it and you do it RIGHT NOW!" 🤣🤣
The animated short that got released recently at least does show the Abyss sibling cares just as deeply. It would seem that in the game they feel they can't let that show.
@@theunlikelygenshingamerdon't pit my abyss princess lumine like that- she did care for aether in the memory space but it would be pointless and useless since aether is just ganna forget the whole Convo, also at the reunited quest, lumine/aether depends on who u chose the abyss twin will not stop until the abyss has engulfed the throne, so moreover the abyss twin has like some duty or mission in khaenriah? But anyways u guys are shallow as heck,
i left this comment on a few videos after the bedtime story quest came out cause i wanna see what others think.... I wonder if…… aether and lumine’s original home world…… is teyvat? but they just don’t recognize it?
their home world was destroyed, but lumine “belongs to THIS world”, and we know the primordial one came and basically destroyed the original teyvat and rewrote it… the twins also wanted to find a place where the flower from their now-destroyed home world grows, and at the end of lumine’s journey through the rewritten teyvat, she found the place, on this “new” world.
there are the theories that the new teyvat is a dream, and the “forbidden knowledge” that its denizens cannot understand is that the real teyvat is actually destroyed and they’re now living in a fake dream world. when apep ate deshret and absorbed his knowledge, all she could see was death and destruction and wasteland, as if she was peering outside of the dream and seeing the “truth of the world”, but it was so jarring that she cannot understand and it just causes her pain. the truth breaks down the dream, which causes all the adverse effects we’ve seen in game (withering, eleazar, etc).
if i remember correctly, lumine also refused to link up with aether because he has not yet reached the end of his journey and learned the truth that she learned at the end of hers. maybe she hates the heavenly principles and she is determined to fight this war by any means necessary, because at the end of her journey when she found the sea of inteyvats, she realized that this is actually her original home world, but the heavenly principles destroyed it and trapped everyone in a dream/samsara to cover up the truth, and to have control over everyone. so now lumine is determined to fight for her homeland, and is waiting for aether to finish his journey, learn the truth, and understand why she has “taken it this far”, in the hopes that he will see where she’s coming from and join her.
I COULD ALSO just be COMPLETELY wrong and missing a bunch of details, but that’s the theory that popped into my head when she mentioned the sea of flowers!!!!!
The issue with forbidden knowledge being the truth of teyvat, is that Apep was one of the original dragon sovereigns, and can still remember the war against the primordial one, so they shouldn’t be surprised by the truth, I feel like he forbidden knowledge might instead be the fact that they are inside the samsara cycle instead of learning the truth of teyvat’s history
I also suspect "forbidden knowledge" will have an important role in the story and is actually a dark secret like you said
I have an alternative theory:
Teyvat was made up of two Worlds, one is the Stable Old Dragon Ruled Teyvat while the other Unstable Quanta Fueled Lumine's and Aether's Old World anchored together.
Hear me out why:
The idea of two World anchored together is nothing new & hinted from Honkai 3rd Bubble Worlds anchored together, to HSR Izumo & Tataragami literally mesh with one another.
The Idea why I thought Lumine's, Aether's and probably the PO Old World too is the Abyss:
Inteyvat only withers on their Homeland / Homeworld, Aether's & Lumine's World have such flowers.
Aether & Lumine were associated with the Abyss, calling them prince / princess by the Khanreans, knowing that they are royalties of this Old World / The Abyss.
I speculated that the PO used the power of the Abyss / Quanta from his Home World too, to wage war against Old Teyvat.
The same power that Nibulung, King Irmin, and the Sinners acquired against the Heavenly Principles.
And anchored them together to have both the power of destruction / Quanta & creation / Imaginary, also new stable world.
To surpress both world, the praise Teyvat corrupts the Abyss & vice versa were true, the light realm power of Dragons & Abyss destructive power.
While Forbidden Knowledge were probably the dilusions that the PO is scared of, and plague Teyvat after the War of Vengeance.
Dilusions were probably came from Nibulung after his death, like God residue cursing the whole of Teyvat.
The PO probably sealed it away after the nails were dropped onto Teyvat.
This is supported by how the edges of the map dissolve into turquoise, much like many other things that exist on an... immaginary level; like Caribert's avatar, playable characters when they go down etc.
As much as I have issues with the way the story was told in this interlude, I do think the information about the Sinners is going to be extremely important going forward.
With each passing nation I see more and more people flock to "the Heavenly Principles are the real enemy, not the Fatui or Abyss Order"... and I really, really can't agree - if anything, I think that would be the more predictable answer, given Celestia is the only major player we've never interacted with directly aside from the intro scene.
With the information we have up until now, it seems that unless Forbidden Knowledge is involved, the HP seem pretty okay with most "rebellions" against it (such as allowing King Deshret's nation to exist despite him refusing a Gnosis outright, or being fine with Orobashi basically leading his own nation until he found the forbidden book, plus Khaenri'ah itself, which was a godless nation to begin with). So while the factions seeking to dethrone might have good intentions (keyword might), I'm pretty sure it's gonna end up doing more harm than good.
So where do the Sinners come into play? Well, we do have that teaser of the seven nation that ends with Dain implying we'll need to fight him at some point. I think the last few arcs are going to pit us against the Sinners one by one, ending with the Twilight Sword himself. They will be the final enemies of the game, not the HP.
As a last sidenote, didn't people datamine 5 unused elements with placeholder data in the game during Fontaine? Maybe the Khaenri'ah arc could last longer than we originally thought.
Interesting*, so maybe Khaenri'ah's act number being obfuscated could have more implications than just looking mysterious. There could be more chapters hidden after the 7 nations, dedicated to the sinners, and thus khaenri'ah may not be act vii
So the heavenly principles dont care aslong as no one threatens their griphold on teyvat. Thats basically textbook bad guy.
To me it seems all factions have varying amounts of evil and good in them.
The abyss has the sinners. But it also has people who wish to help the hilichurls.
The fatui has dottore. But it also has good people like the captain.
Celestia has the heavenly principles. But the gods we have met dont seem to be bad people. Infact most of them try to dissassociate with the heavenly principles.
Id say the abyss and the heavenly principles are equally evil, whereas the fatui somehow manage to be the least evil faction in this game 💀💀💀.
Its quite telling that literally all the archons are trying to put asmuch distance between them and the heavenly principles.
@@nabilshah9184 Not really, though? Like I said, the HP don't even seem to care about whether or not the gods properly uphold the power structure they've created (as seen with Deshret) or if there are nations outside of their control (Enkanomiya and Khaenri'ah). They only move when people try to tap into the Abyss. So far all we have on the HP is that they deploy Celestial Nails when abyssal corruption becomes too much. Hell, if the Prophecy in Fontaine was caused by the whale and prophesized by Vedrfolnir, then even that might not actually be the HP's fault.
Besides that, all they've done is... take the power from the Sovereigns (presumably so humans could live in Teyvat) and some vague stuff about them controlling fate/Teyvat's fake sky that has yet to be explained. And as a reminder, we've yet to encounter someone who belongs to the faction of celestia proper so it's not like we know their side of the story.
So yeah, with each passing update, the idea that the heavenly principles are unambiguously evil becomes more and more unreliable. If anything, the Abyss is shaping up to be the real threat, and despite Arlecchino and possibly Capitano, let's not forget that the Fatui are responsible for a lot of inhumane acts.
@@nabilshah9184 Not really, though? So far, the only "evil deeds" we can reliably attribute to the HP is taking the power from the Sovereigns (presumably to make Teyvat inhabitable for humans) and sending Celestial Nails (and whatever the red cubes in Khaenri'ah were) when Abyssal corruption gets too bad. Plus the whole "fake sky" and "controlling fate" thing, which has not yet been properly explained and even then it's by Pierro and Dottore, far from the most reliable narrators.
Heck, even the Prophecy in Fontaine and the Curse of the Wilderness might not actually be their fault (the former was actually caused by the whale and prophesized by Vedrfolnir, not Celestia; and the latter could have just been a consequence of Khaenrians tampering with Abyssal power, as we saw with Jacob during Fontaine).
Otherwise they don't really seem to care about anyone "threatening their griphold", as evidenced by the Deshret, Enkanomiya and Khaenri'ah examples I gave in the first comment. Plus the fact that the closest thing to Celestia-aligned characters are the Archons, but so far only two seem to know the full truth (Venti and Zhongli) and they won't tell us. So there have been practically no opportunities to hear Celestia's side of the story yet. So while I don't think they're necessarily good, I also think them being unambiguously evil (or even that they're "more evil" than the Abyss and the Fatui) is a red herring.
@@thestrigshow
1) dottore is a reliable narrator. hes a cold cut sociopath. He doesnt care for anything except research making him ironically a good narrator since he has no bias.
2) Pierro is also a reliable narrator. He hates both the abyss and the HP, making him a middle man
3) I am saying the reason the HP is evil is due to their "greater good" stance. theyre willing to kill off innocents to make sure that teyvat cant overthrow or threaten the principles. For sure, the hp are doing this most likely to protect from the honkai, but teyvat citizens arent children and deserve freedom to do what they want. If the honkai are the problem, tell the archons and let everyone decide whether they want things to stay the same or not. They are also the reason that so many people end up rebelling. Being so secretive and posing as the bad guy to the point that even the archons are distancing themselves, is the exact reason why people end up accessing dangerous powers to try and overthrow them through drastic means.
Another point adding on to the honkai. The HP cant hope to handle the honkai alone anyway if the honkai are a problem to the hi3 verse. So even more I think that no matter their reasons, theyre just causing more discourse and problems.
But what do you think is the meaning of asleep? What does it mean that the heavenly principle is 'ASLEEP'?
I think that's just the word that keeps getting used because they appear to be inactive. It's a lot easier to say, "they're asleep," than, "a lot of stuff has happened lately that they totally would have responded to before the Cataclysm but nobody's heard a thing from them in five hundred years but we're pretty sure they aren't dead."
loved this quest a lot, it was actually really dynamic, I was tuned in fro each and every line of it which doesn't happen often with my easy to get bored mind
I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about Rhinedottir and how she is apparently a welcome member of the Hexenzirkel. We think they must be okay because Klee's mom is part of it, and Klee's mom loves Klee. But you gotta wonder. Just what are they doing? Who are the 4 men we've seen in drawings of the Hexenzirkel (4 women and what looks to be 4 male figures)?
I'm wondering about that too. Especially since in that one wind glider description, it is heavily implied that Alice shares the goal of maintaining Teyvat's borders with the Heavenly Principles. So we have her working with Celestia on one side, and hanging out and spilling tea with Gold on the other side.
@@milicajakovljevic6288 ...could she be a double agent?
I’ve never thought Klee’s mom was a good person. She’s a part of an organization who wanted to start a pointless war with a god because they were bored, completely indifferent to the consequences of this. Plus she’s not a good mom. She dumped the responsibility of raising her crazy arsonist child on Jean, who already has her hands full running an entire nation, and she went off to explore Teyvat alone, only returning every now and then and giving Klee extravagant gifts to make sure Klee still loves her. And she’s avoiding the traveler on purpose, so she’s hiding something.
i wonder what party will succeed in the end, my bet is that everyone will fail or lose to hp and it will be the duty of our reunited twins to bring down celestia
I think so too, like how in the case of King Remus, all the rebellion he came up with, it was already preordained that he would do all of what he did so he lost anyway. All he could do is accept that. Only a descender can really get out of the loop, and the Heavenly Principles is a descender too so that battle isn't going to be easy.
Ok I have to point this out. The Heavenly Principles and The Sustainer Of Heavenly Principles are two different entities. I think it’s important to point out that when Lumine asks the god who she is, the god says SUSTAINER of heavenly principles, she doesn’t say she is the heavenly principles herself. The meaning of sustainer means someone who upholds or supports something. So by name, The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles supports the actual HP but isn’t the actual HP herself. Also. Lumine says the HP has been(I think she said sleep or something since the cataclysm) but if that’s case how did she attack the twins? The Sustainer and The HP are different gods altogether. Nahida mentioned when The Heavenly Principles changed the fate of the twins. I think the Heavenly Principles ordered the Sustainer to go after the twins. I also think that the actual Heavenly Principles ordered the Sustainer to destroy Khaenri’ah instead of doing it himself/herself. The Heavenly Principles also waged war against the Seven Sovereigns and stole elemental authority to give to the Archons and that probably took away an indescribable amount of power for The Heavenly Principles to do something on that scale and then regarding the Archon War and the Cataclysm in Khaenri’ah, The HP probably still didn’t have the power to directly intervene which would also tie into why he/she sent the sustainer to Khaenri’ah in the first place. We barely scratched the surface on who The Heavenly Principles are let alone their powers but we have a small grasp of what The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles are capable of because those dark swarms of red cubes that she used against the twins were the same ones that were seen when Khaenri’ah met its unfortunate end which leads me to believe that it was in fact The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles who attacked Khaenri’ah because in the time between its destruction and the twins getting attacked by her, The Heavenly Principles would’ve still been sleep and at this point The Heavenly Principles has been asleep for way longer than 500 years because we don’t know how much time has passed since the destruction of Khaenri’ah
True, but the sustained could be part of the heavenly principles. What do mean by that?
Well, I you remember the opening cutscene, the first time we meet the sustainer, she appears through a portal, but it isn't a single portal, it's a 3 door portal (does that make sense?) , implying that whenever that portal appears, it's meant for 3 heavenly beings to appear, however, that is not the case, only the sustainer walks out of it.
What could this mean?
Tbh I'm not really sure, but this could be implying that the heavenly principles consisted of 3 entities ( or moon sisters, who knows :) ?), and that the sustainer was supposed to rule or keep in check the other 2 entities. Clearly something happened and they are not united anymore leaving only the sustainer to rule the heavenly principles.
That's why I feel like people keep interchanging the "sustainer" and "the heavenly principles"...
That or paimon is just the heavenly principles but shrinked.
> Nahida mentioned when The Heavenly Principles changed the fate of the twins.
She actually said that the Traveler should be able to remember the entity that changed her fate - therefore the SHP = HP
Just some constructive criticism: please add line breaks to divide your post up into paragraphs; it’ll make it much easier to read.
Recently found your channel. Your videos are top notch.
Thanks😁 I've been taking a mini break for a moment but I'll be back soon with some new interesting theories. Hope you'll check them out.
I enjoyed this a lot. Your voice is very pleasant to listen to!
I like how you speak and how you structure your narratives. It's easy to listen to compared to other lore content creators You deserve more subs
Thank you! 😁😁 Hopefully more will come with more quality content. I'm really glad you enjoyed.
@@theunlikelygenshingamer yes you don't get "emotional" in a sense when you're speaking which makes it easier for me to digest the info you're spilling. If you take suggestions, please make a video someday covering the entire timeline of tevyat that we know so far. Thank you and more power for your channel!
@weomeow26 thanks, it's nice to know what I'm doing right lol. As for your suggestion, thanks, I've actually been wanting to do just that, I just wasn't sure how many people would be interested since other TH-camrs have had their go at it.
But I feel more like I should now especially with a new world around the corner.
Thanks again
I don't trust abyss because of Peiro. Since he doesn't trust the sages, then they are not trustworthy.
Except the 5 sinners name and the power of loom of fate there is nothing much about lore or any questions left like other Dainsleif quest do. Honestly in my opinion this archon quest is pretty much simple just like a bedtime story.
Several fields/"seas" of flowers interspersed in the lore...
Ive always compared the twin you pick to King Arthur and your abyss sibling to Mordred, with good reason. Those unfamiliar, Mordred and Arthur eventually fought each other with their respective holy blades. Some versions this was instant killed for both. While in others Mordred was killed by Arthur but severely injured by Mordred. Arthur was taken to Avalon rest and said to return when world needed him again most. Guess that'd make Dainslief our Merlin or something i guess? Lmao 😂
I wonder how many times our memory was tampered with - after all Cariber says that this is the last time it is used. I think there were instances in the story where we get a similar headache - usually with us either remembering something or seeing something.
The traveler is a descender, descenders are unattached to the world of teyvat. Caribert cannot change our memories
The only memory wipe was just not remembering what happened at the point when they were still in Caribert mind space without him in it. Otherwise his memory can't be wiped. But let's remember Lumine's can and she still thinks she has the full picture.
what if paimon is the key to wake up the heavenly principle
I can actually get behind that idea. She is very likely the key to something but not sure what. I don't think however that she is the Heavenly Principles themself.
I love your accent. Are you from th Caribbean too?
I love your concise lore videos too 😊😊
Thank you so much😊. Yes I am in fact. Comments like yours make my day.
You have such a soothing voice ❤
Loved this quest, even though it broke me.
i’m still stuck on the shriveled seed we find in the chasm as pimon tells us she has a story about it but never brought it up since
On a meta level, can a Descender wield power on par with the Loom of Fate? Say…wish that the companions they had met joined them on their journey across Teyvat??
Celestia did nothing wrong
I have to agree with you even though the popular opinion is to hate them. I actually wonder who is it that Genshin wants to portray as the villain or if they are purposely leaving it very vague which side you should choose. The only real enemy I think is the Abyss or true Death.
I kinda hate that this quest is super short and mostly uneventful. I miss the first Dain quest we had where we had to fight for our life trying to escape and enter that domain and fight our first Abyss Lector.
Paimon has to be Celestia man...
No Paimon must not be Celestia, she must be FROM CELESTIA.
I'm curious how powerful this loom of fate ? Why traveler affected by memory erasure, we know traveler is a Descender.
The Traveler is unaffected by Irminsul because their status as a Descender places them outside of the things that Irminsul has control over. The Loom of Fate is also outside of Irminsul's control since it can make its own Ley Lines unaffiliated with those created by Irminsul. I would imagine if the Loom of Fate became a new world tree to replace Irminsul, the Traveler would no longer have Descender status because they would be a part of the world woven by the Loom of Fate.
Which...may be what happened to the sibling if this is some sort of ongoing cycle.
i cared about 4.7 and then i stopped caring about the rest of it forever i am now free, fuck your "and it was all a dream that u forgot" bullshit
The whole quest wasn't a dream though. Only that last little bit of conversation with Lumine after Caribert dissipated.
Everything else was recorded and Aether know that they lost the battle to stop the loom of fate from being complete. He just isn't going to remember getting to talk to her.
I LOVE! YOUR VIDEOS
Is it possible that the Fatui will burn the Irminsul to effectively blind Celestia from dictating fate? Then somehow the abyss will utilize this to create their own Leylines and be left uncorrected since theoriginal leylines from irminsul is deleted or some sort?
I would be surprised if this is the plan to be honest. That would line up with what Pierro said about the sages thinking that they all knowing but the Fatui know the real value behind what they are doing.
I sense it's time to go back over everything because new stuff always comes to light and starts to make sense after a quest like this.
I don't get why there are only five sinners. Hoyo has by now established that the natural selection of the Imaginary tree, whichever form it takes, manifests in twelve instances. Whether it's the Herrschers, both in GGZ and HI3, or Sentinels from Acheron's world. No matter how you look at it, the sinners, who have taken the power of the Abyss, are the "manifestation" of that selective force, an analog of Herrschers. So, why aren't there seven more?
Maybe it’s sinners + archons?
I was thinking this too. I didn't know this lore about the imaginary tree but maybe there are entities we haven't met yet who will add to these that we have met
The "heavenly principles" are asleep because she's literally Paimon....
The heavenly principles fell asleep right after destroying khaenri'ah
Likeee pai-pri, m-mordial, on-one??? Am I reaching😭😭??
@@ambieee And? We didn't find paimon til 2 months before the start of the game. LONG after Khaenri'ah. So it's very plausible
What is the difference between greater lord and caribert in terms of our memories?
Coz i didnt get it 😅
@@lyn6852 Dendro Archons can affect memories through the Irminsul (big pink tree from Sumeru storyline). Caribert affected memories using the power of Abyss, which was an unfinished "Loom of Fate". Now that it was completed, you can think of it as of the Abyss Order's ability to hack reality, fate and people normally "generated" by Irminsul. While they can't directly change the reality, they can create it, and through it affect future outcomes.
In terms of their both being gone. Rukkadevata was literally hidden from everyone who derives their memories from the leylines. So tampering with the leylines could wipe her out of the records.
Caribert only existed for a short while in the leylines natural, then he just occupied a space in it where he could mess around with the rest of it.
Of course he couldnt give the traveler false memories because he isn't beholden to the leylines. He was just visiting his mental space.
When that mental space got deleted, no more memories could have been saved in it but the traveler was still present.
Think of when you maybe save and then exit a gamd but the computer kind of lags so you can run around for a few more seconds before really closes and none of that was saved.
Caribert though wasn't wiped, he just died in the leylines too now, Greater Lord Rukkadevata was wiped.
Hope that answered you question but if not feel free to ask, I like explaining 😁
Thanks for the explanations~
So this really means that the abyss is the reason why our siblings irminsul record was cut off? Becoz this previous leylines memories in dains quest are before our sibling join the abyss...?
Also just remember this.. whats with the afternoon time? Like that 3PM? Seems like the events always happen during that time?