I've got probably 150 hours worth of experience with it, I have a fostex e16, ampex atr700 that unfortunately needs work, a few others as well, i enjoy them greatly, the sound isn't always that different, sometimes it is, but the process is just fun, it makes you think about what you're doing a whole lot more
It's not lost,it's just that there aren't too many of us doing it anymore. It still sounds better (in my opinion) that any "DAW" you choose. People just can't afford to maintain them.
maintaining a restored machine is not expensive at all. out of the 500 Mara Machines we have out in the world, we billed less that $700 total last year in service!!
I suspect regular use and maintenance is key -- it's when machines are unused for long periods of time that things tend to go bad. The grease for the pinch roller pivot on my otari completely seized up and the urethane roller went to goo after a few years of kid sabbatical, but I suspect if I had been using it on a regular basis, the degradation would have been more easily addressed at an earlier point in time.
6:20. That's a really interesting point about the lack of tape technology progression. There is no upgrade cycle you have to follow. No computer upgrades, DAW yearly subscription you have to pay into, no endless purchasing of plugins, no worrying about the software company going out of business. You get the machine, and you only have to maintain it. The only issue is blank tape supply.
I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to work with tape in school at the age of 17 during my Music Technology classes because our teacher had been a practising engineer since the 70s. It wasn't necessary to pass the exams, he just thought we should experience it!
Well put. A big Thankyou to Chris for bringing up an often overlooked matter: tape forces you to restrict yourself, and to make decisions. This got lost a bit in the DAW era. Now, you can leave up artistic decisions until the mixing stage (or even later). In former times you'd have to focus on arrangement & performance, and there was no such thing like endless layers and microscopic editing of flawed takes. You'd have to do it right. With all the goodness of digital freedom, it's indeed the difference in workflow that makes tape 'special' from today's perspective. It is important to understand for 'younger' people that it's rarely the 'sound' (which is often very subtle, btw.) but more the way you're making music as a whole. The good thing is, once you've experienced it yourself, you can always take it to re-calibrate yourself and force to make decisions early on. Like, recording with effects, less mics on the drums, less guitar layers, less additional vocal takes, doing the proper blend of guitar-cab miking beforehand etc. That even works in a DAW! :)
So true, the endless possibilities of the digital era can often bog you down and make things more complicated than they have to be- think of endless processing with plugins and whatnot. Even when using softsynths, I get overwhelmed with all the choices I have.
I have a great deal of interest in recording to tape, it's just very expensive to get and maintain a decent reel to reel. I've built myself a tape echo from a 3 head cassette deck and used cheaper tape devices as saturation methods for track elements, but seeing someone out there restoring tape machines is quite a nice thing. Being "invested in the machine" is definitely a huge part of having your own studio. Might have to give restoring an old Studer a go now I've seen this.
maintaining a restored machine is not expensive at all. out of the 500 Mara Machines we have out in the world, we billed less that $700 total last year in service!!
I have a lot of vinyl 45 rpm box sets that I love (Bill Evans -Riverside). But I am a lazy audiophile. Found a Revox B77 High Speed in pretty good shape and started recording to tape. Found the sound to be as good as the vinyl and it was fun. But after awhile I felt that the Revox was lacking functions. Started looking at an upgrade $10K, $20K+ was just to much for me. Found Mara Machines and after considerable thought I ordered a JH-110 after 6 weeks it arrived. What a beast, this is a commercial machine for a studio (make sure you have room for it). Recording is just easy with no loss from the vinyl. I love the library wind (variable speed). Support is first rate and having a completely rebuilt machine with a warranty for $5K is just awesome. Oh I really love my JH110 in case you missed that:)
I truly appreciate your passion for this equipment and what it yields. It's folks like you that keep the vintage alive and draws an appreciation from a whole new generation. Digital can be fast and efficient and, let's face it, we use those tools for making TH-cam videos :) - but the best sound needs the best method, and the richness of analogue cannot be surpassed.
I have recorded a lot over the years. The only problem I have had is deterioration of the recording over time. I still enjoy it though. I use my Empire 598 to record my LP's onto reel. It saves ware and tear on my LP's and I can always record them again.
I have a 1/2" Otari MX-5050mkIII-8 that I've had fun with over the decades. The workflow forces you to think ahead, make a commitment, and keep moving forward. Compose it, track it, sweeten it, mix it down. I stripe track 8 with SMPTE and built up songs by chasing my sequencer to it -- tape sync always seems like magic. My next goal is to track down the honda connector needed to build locator cabling so I can have my Otari chase a DAW or other digital multitrack. (and to transfer my early tapes which have gone sticky over the last couple decades...)
Is that the version that faces up, table-style? I have an earlier version that needs serious tlc, but it’s just so exciting to imagine what it will sound/look like when it’s all done and fixed. I believe your model is the same that Nirvana’s “Bleach” record was recorded on.
@@ericvannielsen yes, it's the tabletop style. Mine has a +2dB head bump at 60Hz and a [-3dB] dip just after 100Hz, which is a little different than the response curve I've seen of [Endino's] deck, but after 100Hz mine is +/-1dB all the way out to just after 20kHz using 406 or 456 tape, so its a plenty capable deck in the right hands. I had a recap, capstan motor updates (including ceramic sleeve) done by precision motor works a couple decades ago. they are still around, and worth a contact to see if they're still up for working on such "lowly" gear. :) [edit: it was Endino's deck, not Albini's... I checked my graphs to correct the 100Hz dip.]
I just landed an Ampex quarter inch mix down machine as payment for some session work I did. I'm so excited to mix on to tape for the first time, but I gotta learn how to turn the darn thing on first. Any getting started resources on line I should watch or read?
Have readopted taping off vinyl or CD. Always loved machines tho’ I rely on pros 4 maintenance. I’ve got a Tascam 246 Portastudio 4 home-studio experiments & lotsa cassette NOS. Have also gone back 2 recording “mix-tapes” from records/CD. Systemdek + RB300 arm + Goldring cartridge. An Aussie-designed u-beaut slipmat. 80s Sony TC D5M field recorder, the Walkman Pro that succeeded it (get the ones with the parabolic head) & a Tascam 122 .. all machines were serviced or refurbished. The 122’s touchy but; it’s got adjustable bias & eq and it seems it’s been adjusted 4 Maxell .. all other tape formulations including TDK sounds dull .. I don’t have the doo-dad 2 readjust bias 2 different tape brands .. so I usually use the Sonys that’ll tape just about anything. I love Jazz, certain types of film tracks & some classical .. ooh maybe a little classic-rock. I managed 2 source the condenser electret mics & the remote 4 the Portastudio but haven’t recorded anything of note yet. I’ve given up on a TEAC model-5 mixer, 2340sx 4trk open reel & early dbx 161 comp/lmtr setup as too ambitious @ my age now & limited diy skills. Recording off records was what is was all about i/t 70s .. u showed & told ur records then taped them 2 preserve them .. the hobby evolved 2 see who could make the best-sounding tapes .. an arms race ensued. What fun!!! 4got 2 mention, also havva Sony TC-377 1/4” open reel machine (a step up from the Akai 4000) waiting 4 servicing .. THAT I can’t w8 2 b able 2 use. It’s a 7” machine & the tapes r compatible with the TEAC 2340sx 4tr
I still record on tape. I love analog, no digital crutches, honest, keeps players honest, makes one just play better. I love the sound of it, I love not being in front of a screen, I love a tactile, knob-moving real board, I love it's natural compression, I love that it can be saturated when needed...I could go on. I wish the industry would move back that way again so they'd start making them again. Digital is good, and cheaper, for mastering since it all goes digital in the end. Think about it, digital is trying to sound like analog, analog sounds like analog.
I would suggest that you take a test CD of a frequency generator and record a 1 khz tone to any recorder you like. Then play it back and measure it with a frequency counter and see what you get, considering you have motors in both recording and playback. Then look at the playback and see what harmonics are displayed to both sides of the fundamental. We have come to listen to and like the sound of these harmonics since the beginning of analog tape. I have a test CD with tones and when I play back the 1khz tone in my cd player I see a 1000 hz tone in my frequency counter. When I recorded that 1khz tone in my old Denon DRS 810 and play it back I got 999.6 hx to 999.8hz. I have an old Dual 502 made in Germany TT, belt drive with a high torque AC motor. I replaced the arm with a REGA (UK) RB 250 tonearm and played back one of my Shure Test LPs with a 1khz tone. I measured a variable tone of 1004 to 1006 hz, slightly fast, but I do not know the total accuracy of the cutting lathe that made that LP. My Dual 502 turntable as no speed adjustment nor is it quartz locked. I did own a Pioneer RT 707 R2R years ago, I am 75. My problem with tape has always been the high noise floor, close to -55db to -60db with no noise reduction. Dolby has been a help, but most R2Rs did not come with Dolby, mostly cassette decks starting with B, C, then Dolby S, but not many with S. My Denon does have B and C and is a 3 head machine. Most studios used outboard Dolby A which was multi-band noise reduction and worked well. Every time you mixed down something was lost and then you had issues with proper storage of tapes and storage space and security. I have worked on R2Rs and anyone who has opened one up know that they are a mechanical nightmare and require maintenance and alignment, and that azimuth must be checked at every splice made to a tape. Much high frequency info is lost the higher your recording levels and it was not uncommon to allow recording peaks to get to +6db on tape to get away from the higher tape hiss. I have no issue with someone liking the sound of analog tape, but it is clearly a troublesome medium. In my home studio with AC line conditioning, I have a -80db noise floor with my mics open as I keep my room quiet and ensure the HVAC noise of any venue I am recording in is off so no blower noise gets to my mics. I don't know if I could get lower than that with my average gear. The mics I generally use have a self noise of below 7db. I have seen too many commercial recordings that have some black lead in on their tracks that have a noise floor as high as -45 db which I would find unacceptable in our digital world. I never record lower than 2496. I have tried 24/192, but have a hard time hearing much difference from 2496 and I can burn 2496 pcm to DVD-Rs and they can be played on most DVD players as DVD-V. The biggest problem today is that too many are over-using compression and peak limiting just to be the loudest. That needs to stop and let the listener use their volume controls to make it louder when they listen.
I believe a lot of the reason there’s been a big resurgence with Tascam cassette multitrackers is because home and small studio engineers/musicians are subconsciously (and some consciously) aware that there is a difference in sound with analog that they’re not hearing in the box. Once some of these people graduate to what it is you sell and promote, minds just get blown further. Great video.
Give me that warm Analog any day ! It's like a real fire on a cold winter night compared to a electric heater with fake flickering logs ! But what do I know ? 😎
I’m Thinking About Going Back Analog Recording! I’m Sick Of PC’s & Mac Dying I Lost 100’s Of Songs Because Of My PC & Mac Going Out.. I Just Bought A New Super Computer I’m Going To Give It One More Shot If I’ve Any Problems I’m Going To Jus Buy A Track Recorder Drum Machine Keyboard Going Back Ole School 😊😂
Put the old hard drives from broken pc into new pc, if the hard dics are ate (old type connector, grey 40 or 80 wired grey connectors, there are adapters that can convert to sata.... You still can reclaim thise tracks from the old drives..... dont worry. 🙂👍🏻
I just started recording at home again and am planning on using a new digital 12 channel Teac mixer into Studio One. Once I have everything recorded and sounding the way I want I’m going to play it back into the room through my system because that’s when it usually sounds the best. Then I’ll use my Ribbon mic to record the mastered song into a 1968 Teac 3 mixer and from there into a cassette. The deck recording will then be fed back into the computer. I’m assuming they recorded a lot like this in the 50’s but I can’t really find out much about this method. I thought of this method because I do it all the time with my cell phone. Any suggestions?
Have you recorded to tape before? What's your experience with it? Let us know 👇
On Studer B67
I've got probably 150 hours worth of experience with it, I have a fostex e16, ampex atr700 that unfortunately needs work, a few others as well, i enjoy them greatly, the sound isn't always that different, sometimes it is, but the process is just fun, it makes you think about what you're doing a whole lot more
Love the workflow!
Yep, good old 2inch 24 tracks Studer and 2tracks stereo masters …
I still record to tape,,,,, but now I use it as a flavoring tool for daw.
It's not lost,it's just that there aren't too many of us doing it anymore. It still sounds better (in my opinion) that any "DAW" you choose. People just can't afford to maintain them.
It certainly has a distinct sound and seems to be growing again in popularity. Thanks for tuning in!
maintaining a restored machine is not expensive at all. out of the 500 Mara Machines we have out in the world, we billed less that $700 total last year in service!!
I suspect regular use and maintenance is key -- it's when machines are unused for long periods of time that things tend to go bad. The grease for the pinch roller pivot on my otari completely seized up and the urethane roller went to goo after a few years of kid sabbatical, but I suspect if I had been using it on a regular basis, the degradation would have been more easily addressed at an earlier point in time.
Should be the "exquisite art" :)
Recording on tape sounds unbelievable
GenJones here. I was there for Allison Research Fabulous Faders, the advent of twin 24-tracks, new SSL 4000s (Canon DL-2s), refurbished, rewired Neves
6:20. That's a really interesting point about the lack of tape technology progression. There is no upgrade cycle you have to follow. No computer upgrades, DAW yearly subscription you have to pay into, no endless purchasing of plugins, no worrying about the software company going out of business. You get the machine, and you only have to maintain it. The only issue is blank tape supply.
I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to work with tape in school at the age of 17 during my Music Technology classes because our teacher had been a practising engineer since the 70s. It wasn't necessary to pass the exams, he just thought we should experience it!
Well put.
A big Thankyou to Chris for bringing up an often overlooked matter: tape forces you to restrict yourself, and to make decisions. This got lost a bit in the DAW era. Now, you can leave up artistic decisions until the mixing stage (or even later). In former times you'd have to focus on arrangement & performance, and there was no such thing like endless layers and microscopic editing of flawed takes. You'd have to do it right. With all the goodness of digital freedom, it's indeed the difference in workflow that makes tape 'special' from today's perspective. It is important to understand for 'younger' people that it's rarely the 'sound' (which is often very subtle, btw.) but more the way you're making music as a whole.
The good thing is, once you've experienced it yourself, you can always take it to re-calibrate yourself and force to make decisions early on. Like, recording with effects, less mics on the drums, less guitar layers, less additional vocal takes, doing the proper blend of guitar-cab miking beforehand etc. That even works in a DAW! :)
Thanks for tuning in!
So true, the endless possibilities of the digital era can often bog you down and make things more complicated than they have to be- think of endless processing with plugins and whatnot. Even when using softsynths, I get overwhelmed with all the choices I have.
I have 3M M79, 16track. Tape Forever!
I have a great deal of interest in recording to tape, it's just very expensive to get and maintain a decent reel to reel. I've built myself a tape echo from a 3 head cassette deck and used cheaper tape devices as saturation methods for track elements, but seeing someone out there restoring tape machines is quite a nice thing. Being "invested in the machine" is definitely a huge part of having your own studio. Might have to give restoring an old Studer a go now I've seen this.
That's awesome, Koss thanks for watching!
maintaining a restored machine is not expensive at all. out of the 500 Mara Machines we have out in the world, we billed less that $700 total last year in service!!
@@welcometo1979 seems to be a different story in the UK, I've looked at having stuff serviced here and it's a fair wedge.
@@squoblat Mara Machines come with a warranty and lifetime support; which makes it easy!
@@welcometo1979 Amazing, I'll have to have a look at Mara. Thanks!
I have a lot of vinyl 45 rpm box sets that I love (Bill Evans -Riverside). But I am a lazy audiophile. Found a Revox B77 High Speed in pretty good shape and started recording to tape. Found the sound to be as good as the vinyl and it was fun. But after awhile I felt that the Revox was lacking functions. Started looking at an upgrade $10K, $20K+ was just to much for me. Found Mara Machines and after considerable thought I ordered a JH-110 after 6 weeks it arrived. What a beast, this is a commercial machine for a studio (make sure you have room for it). Recording is just easy with no loss from the vinyl. I love the library wind (variable speed). Support is first rate and having a completely rebuilt machine with a warranty for $5K is just awesome. Oh I really love my JH110 in case you missed that:)
No, we got that 😁 thank you for watching, David!
I truly appreciate your passion for this equipment and what it yields. It's folks like you that keep the vintage alive and draws an appreciation from a whole new generation. Digital can be fast and efficient and, let's face it, we use those tools for making TH-cam videos :) - but the best sound needs the best method, and the richness of analogue cannot be surpassed.
Having some Rupert Neve cards help. Those + 2" tape = 🥰
Super cool - I have a TEAC 1/4 inch 4 track that I really like that could probably use a full restoration. Do the Mara folks work on other models?
I have recorded a lot over the years. The only problem I have had is deterioration of the recording over time. I still enjoy it though. I use my Empire 598 to record my LP's onto reel. It saves ware and tear on my LP's and I can always record them again.
Nice! Thanks for watching 👊
A documentary that start with "i moved to Nashville when i was 20 y o" hahahahahH CLASSIC
I have a 1/2" Otari MX-5050mkIII-8 that I've had fun with over the decades. The workflow forces you to think ahead, make a commitment, and keep moving forward. Compose it, track it, sweeten it, mix it down. I stripe track 8 with SMPTE and built up songs by chasing my sequencer to it -- tape sync always seems like magic. My next goal is to track down the honda connector needed to build locator cabling so I can have my Otari chase a DAW or other digital multitrack. (and to transfer my early tapes which have gone sticky over the last couple decades...)
Is that the version that faces up, table-style? I have an earlier version that needs serious tlc, but it’s just so exciting to imagine what it will sound/look like when it’s all done and fixed. I believe your model is the same that Nirvana’s “Bleach” record was recorded on.
@@ericvannielsen yes, it's the tabletop style. Mine has a +2dB head bump at 60Hz and a [-3dB] dip just after 100Hz, which is a little different than the response curve I've seen of [Endino's] deck, but after 100Hz mine is +/-1dB all the way out to just after 20kHz using 406 or 456 tape, so its a plenty capable deck in the right hands.
I had a recap, capstan motor updates (including ceramic sleeve) done by precision motor works a couple decades ago. they are still around, and worth a contact to see if they're still up for working on such "lowly" gear. :)
[edit: it was Endino's deck, not Albini's... I checked my graphs to correct the 100Hz dip.]
Great topic and video. How was made the picture at 6:40? Thanks for the great info.
I just landed an Ampex quarter inch mix down machine as payment for some session work I did. I'm so excited to mix on to tape for the first time, but I gotta learn how to turn the darn thing on first. Any getting started resources on line I should watch or read?
Have readopted taping off vinyl or CD. Always loved machines tho’ I rely on pros 4 maintenance. I’ve got a Tascam 246 Portastudio 4 home-studio experiments & lotsa cassette NOS. Have also gone back 2 recording “mix-tapes” from records/CD. Systemdek + RB300 arm + Goldring cartridge. An Aussie-designed u-beaut slipmat. 80s Sony TC D5M field recorder, the Walkman Pro that succeeded it (get the ones with the parabolic head) & a Tascam 122 .. all machines were serviced or refurbished. The 122’s touchy but; it’s got adjustable bias & eq and it seems it’s been adjusted 4 Maxell .. all other tape formulations including TDK sounds dull .. I don’t have the doo-dad 2 readjust bias 2 different tape brands .. so I usually use the Sonys that’ll tape just about anything. I love Jazz, certain types of film tracks & some classical .. ooh maybe a little classic-rock. I managed 2 source the condenser electret mics & the remote 4 the Portastudio but haven’t recorded anything of note yet. I’ve given up on a TEAC model-5 mixer, 2340sx 4trk open reel & early dbx 161 comp/lmtr setup as too ambitious @ my age now & limited diy skills. Recording off records was what is was all about i/t 70s .. u showed & told ur records then taped them 2 preserve them .. the hobby evolved 2 see who could make the best-sounding tapes .. an arms race ensued. What fun!!! 4got 2 mention, also havva Sony TC-377 1/4” open reel machine (a step up from the Akai 4000) waiting 4 servicing .. THAT I can’t w8 2 b able 2 use. It’s a 7” machine & the tapes r compatible with the TEAC 2340sx 4tr
I still record on tape. I love analog, no digital crutches, honest, keeps players honest, makes one just play better. I love the sound of it, I love not being in front of a screen, I love a tactile, knob-moving real board, I love it's natural compression, I love that it can be saturated when needed...I could go on. I wish the industry would move back that way again so they'd start making them again. Digital is good, and cheaper, for mastering since it all goes digital in the end. Think about it, digital is trying to sound like analog, analog sounds like analog.
I would suggest that you take a test CD of a frequency generator and record a 1 khz tone to any recorder you like. Then play it back and measure it with a frequency counter and see what you get, considering you have motors in both recording and playback. Then look at the playback and see what harmonics are displayed to both sides of the fundamental. We have come to listen to and like the sound of these harmonics since the beginning of analog tape. I have a test CD with tones and when I play back the 1khz tone in my cd player I see a 1000 hz tone in my frequency counter. When I recorded that 1khz tone in my old Denon DRS 810 and play it back I got 999.6 hx to 999.8hz. I have an old Dual 502 made in Germany TT, belt drive with a high torque AC motor. I replaced the arm with a REGA (UK) RB 250 tonearm and played back one of my Shure Test LPs with a 1khz tone. I measured a variable tone of 1004 to 1006 hz, slightly fast, but I do not know the total accuracy of the cutting lathe that made that LP. My Dual 502 turntable as no speed adjustment nor is it quartz locked.
I did own a Pioneer RT 707 R2R years ago, I am 75. My problem with tape has always been the high noise floor, close to -55db to -60db with no noise reduction. Dolby has been a help, but most R2Rs did not come with Dolby, mostly cassette decks starting with B, C, then Dolby S, but not many with S. My Denon does have B and C and is a 3 head machine. Most studios used outboard Dolby A which was multi-band noise reduction and worked well. Every time you mixed down something was lost and then you had issues with proper storage of tapes and storage space and security. I have worked on R2Rs and anyone who has opened one up know that they are a mechanical nightmare and require maintenance and alignment, and that azimuth must be checked at every splice made to a tape. Much high frequency info is lost the higher your recording levels and it was not uncommon to allow recording peaks to get to +6db on tape to get away from the higher tape hiss.
I have no issue with someone liking the sound of analog tape, but it is clearly a troublesome medium. In my home studio with AC line conditioning, I have a -80db noise floor with my mics open as I keep my room quiet and ensure the HVAC noise of any venue I am recording in is off so no blower noise gets to my mics. I don't know if I could get lower than that with my average gear. The mics I generally use have a self noise of below 7db. I have seen too many commercial recordings that have some black lead in on their tracks that have a noise floor as high as -45 db which I would find unacceptable in our digital world. I never record lower than 2496. I have tried 24/192, but have a hard time hearing much difference from 2496 and I can burn 2496 pcm to DVD-Rs and they can be played on most DVD players as DVD-V.
The biggest problem today is that too many are over-using compression and peak limiting just to be the loudest. That needs to stop and let the listener use their volume controls to make it louder when they listen.
I believe a lot of the reason there’s been a big resurgence with Tascam cassette multitrackers is because home and small studio engineers/musicians are subconsciously (and some consciously) aware that there is a difference in sound with analog that they’re not hearing in the box. Once some of these people graduate to what it is you sell and promote, minds just get blown further. Great video.
😍
Give me that warm Analog any day ! It's like a real fire on a cold winter night compared to a electric heater with fake flickering logs ! But what do I know ? 😎
will buy Mara MCI JH-110
It's not lost, its just expensive to maintain, even the tape itself is expensive.
I’m Thinking About Going Back Analog Recording! I’m Sick Of PC’s & Mac Dying I Lost 100’s Of Songs Because Of My PC & Mac Going Out.. I Just Bought A New Super Computer I’m Going To Give It One More Shot If I’ve Any Problems I’m Going To Jus Buy A Track Recorder Drum Machine Keyboard Going Back Ole School 😊😂
Put the old hard drives from broken pc into new pc, if the hard dics are ate (old type connector, grey 40 or 80 wired grey connectors, there are adapters that can convert to sata....
You still can reclaim thise tracks from the old drives..... dont worry. 🙂👍🏻
@@mohammedisaa9952 Ok I’ll Look Into Bro Thanks? 💪🏾👑
It's a lost art because it's useless these days.
I just started recording at home again and am planning on using a new digital 12 channel Teac mixer into Studio One. Once I have everything recorded and sounding the way I want I’m going to play it back into the room through my system because that’s when it usually sounds the best. Then I’ll use my Ribbon mic to record the mastered song into a 1968 Teac 3 mixer and from there into a cassette. The deck recording will then be fed back into the computer. I’m assuming they recorded a lot like this in the 50’s but I can’t really find out much about this method. I thought of this method because I do it all the time with my cell phone. Any suggestions?
Hi @late4suppa1! very cool technique, thanks for sharing!