DSR VS other Antialiasing settings
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ย. 2014
- DSR is Nvidia's new technology that claims to fit 4K picture quality into an HD display. I put it to the test against the normal MSAA and SSAA versions and am surprised by the results.
ALSO: The first analysis video I've uploaded since the 60 FPS roll-out and I happen to choose one thing that I can't record in 60 FPS.
Unfortunately, I can't capture the end result of this but have to rely on a 4K image that's down-scaled in an external program which may make it look better than it does in-game. I can still explain what it is and the additional pros and cons of using it.
It's nice to have the option of DSR and if it supports games that SSAA and other modes don't then it's certainly a welcome tool, but I've been playing Deus Ex and Operation Flashpoint (The originals) with SSAA and have had no problems. Because of this, I can only assume that in most games, DSR will cause more problems than it solves in most situations.
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Up next: DSLR
You get photos of the game you want to play, taken by Nvidia with a DSLR camera, mailed to you.
3hit This made my day.
Shit u predicted the future behold Nvidia Ansel
4k DSR is sooo frickin awesome. I love it more than AA. It just looks amazing.
I love your techy videos that hit my intrests perfectly !
very intelligent and descriptive comparison thanks philip!
I play everything at 150% scale DSR (3k downsample) and it looks amazing to me. On my 1080p screens going to 4k DSR from 3k only seems just slightly better at a noticeably larger performance hit. This is on a Titan X btw.
And what about smoothness percentage
@@AdrianMuslim 10-15% for 1440p downsampling. for 3x-4x DSR use 0 smoothness and turn nvidia FXAA on and the ingame FXAA off
I don't know how you render your videos, but i think they are the most crisp I've ever seen!
4X MSAA MasterRace!
***** Nope, not in the FPS way.
0x MSAA Is the best
I can't even turn on AA without getting 40 fps, my pc sucks ;-;
***** 99,9% of games (the 0,1 % is minesweeper)
I still get around 230 fps with Max settings and 4x dsr, so im good
Hey kliks, just a heads-up, you can force Supersampling only for transparent textures and keep using regular MSAA if you're looking for a balanced framerate, sharp image and avoiding lots of flickering foliage and such.
I usually use that tecnhique or just 8xSQ over the whole scene. Full-scene Supersampling tends to soften the image a bit when its used, but at least it softens the Supersampled image properly as opposed to lazy ass "optimized" FXAA just blurring all the flickering edges and making them even more noticable. Screw FXAA.
great video, as always! Thanks man!
Oh, in case you were wondering why SS and DSR look different: It is due to HDR.
If you downscale before mapping HDR -> LDR, you'll get jaggies in areas of high contrast.
If you map to HDR -> LDR and THEN downscale, you'll get smoother results.
The reason is this. Imagine 4 pixels, one is very dark, the other are extremely bright, like 10x brighter than your monitor can display.
The if you downscale BEFORE, the average color will be (10 + 10 + 10 + 0) / 4 which is 7.5, but then is clamped to 1.
If you downscale AFTER, the average color is (10 gets clamped to 1 here) (1 + 1 + 1 + 0) / 4 which is 0.75, which is is less than 1 and doesn't get clamped.
It may be worth mentioning that you can use anti-aliasing(& any other features, all of which will presumably be done at the higher resolution before it's scaled down) in combination with DSR. Of course that will reduce the performance even more, but it can be good for older games.
almost 9 years later, we can now use this with 4080/4090s with minimal fps loss
I saw you in a random casual game the other day :3
I think SS and DSR also introduce input lag due to the latency in downscaling the image every frame
Remember to turn on gfx card resolution scaling vs monitor scaling in the system driver.
I've found a sweet spot using DSR on may 1080p display. With my GTX1080 I usually choose ~1500px vertical with 4xMSAA, turn DSR smoothing to 100% and then use my BENQ monitor to apply hardware "superresolution" sharpening which is a type of unsharp mask filter. I turned up the refresh freq. from 60 to 75 Hz in the drivers (forced custom res. with DSR off) as well and can run DSR@75fps now. The resulting image is remarkably smooth with no staircasing effects. I'll take that quality any day vs noAA/fxAA 4K. It look like a movie!
cant wait for the new 8k images crushed down on a 4k monitor with 8xDSR and 50fps :P
man i wish you'd do updated version of this video including amd's vsr, generally i think a lot of what is mentioned in this video is true, but with games that utilize TAA such as RDR 2 with is blurry mess i find dsr being a god saver, even 2x or 2.35x is making the game look bearable, only problem is finding good smoothing for those leess than 4x resolutions, not sure how it works on amd though
Great review! thanks
The question I have is, how do you increase the internal resolution (like emulators do) without affecting things like the interface (GUI is too small at 4K in some games)...
especially in total war the small font becomes a nightmare. but this is also for monitors with resolutions higher than 1080p and not just dsr on a 1080p monitor. There is an ingame UI scaling but I feel like it just makes the text blurrier as it increases in size. The only real alternative is to download a larger font mod. but then some buttons will have text that spills over the edge of the button
Is there any point in using DSR and AA effects at the same time? I mean, it sounds like it does, but I would like a comparison between DSR + AA and DSR
is there any aa technique that is good to use in combination with 4x dsr? maybe 4x dsr and 8xmsaa?
Do you use the nvidia 3d vision/lightboost hack?
this is so amazing, for years i've been looking for this! I don't know what the fuck he's talking about!
You could compare nVdia DSR with BF4 resolution scale (final quality, GPU and CPU usage, FPS).
Omg saw you in that 1v1 csgo game mode! At first I thought were fake because you always were saying the same thing but then I checked your steam profile and you were real =) but we need a rematch on there because our 1v1 with knifes was cut short =')
Hey i have asus 1060 and i5 6600k I play csgo what do u suggest me for dsr factors? and its smoothness? also have benq
xl2430t.
Today I was flying around Nuke spectating a friends game when I noticed something peculiar in the ramp room, If I flew above the railing that is near the ceiling I can see white bleeding like when you look at an actual leak. Is this just me or did Valve screw up?
Philip, you're a mapping nerd can you investigate it?
+rep i tried to set DSR on and my monitor stopped working and i managed to get it back up after an hour and a half. would do again 10/10
So DSR 2x native with 33% smoothness is like 2xSuperSampling AA?
I know about the tiny HUD, and such, and it is very annoying, not sure why nvidia has not posted anything on that subject,frankly its nice to see someone with the same issue haha, i am not alone. Not gunna lie, so far with AC4 i like dsr2x. Now also, thank you for the info about how the HD is not as good as 4k regarding pixels, something i will consider when upgrading my monitor, however gaming at 4k is still a expensive gpu cost. I have read that 17% smoothness is a nice setting for sharpness vs some blur, but if i bring it down to 0, then what? Will i have jaggz again? Currently i turned on smaa ontop of the 2x dsr. Seems very fluid and nice in ac4. Some games however i agree doesnt seem to be the best option especially if you have to read and write alot on the hud. Fortunately i do not in AC4. What was that you mentioned about the math?
I thought this was a really, really old method for AA in the CRT days, but they use regular AA methods because there is less of a performance hit.
it is normal, because next gen consoles uses 1080p, same as desctop PC, so performance on PC games are not lower than console. so no additional performance cost = you can use 4k or ultra AA.
i typically never stand still long enough to notice jaggies on objects
I wonder how AA could affect player visibility. Would it help by making the cover pixels be less obstructive or would it smooth the player pixels down so they blend with the background?
Both. These are the tradeoffs you make. I run no anti-aliasing so things "pop" off of the background more because they have sharp aliased edges, but at the same time running especially dsr would give you an image with more correct information and detail, with the downside of blurring. The only real solution is to get a higher res monitor.
***** Yet alot of pro's use a lower resulution than thier monitor supports... n0thing reasoned that his 1280 x 720 resolution runned more consistent across all PC's but if you have the option to use 1080p at a good framerate you should defenetly use that.
3kliksphilip
agreed which is the other reason i run it off, much higher framerate and lower input lag
It would be really useful to use this type of thing when recording demos.
i experience framrate drops in csgo, so i keep my settings down so when it drops it drops to 60 instead of 30-40fps. my pc isnt slow more graphically intensive games dont do that nearly as much
Can you do a new best graphic settings video for csgo for best fps :) ?
i have an problem.. ive played years with anti aliasing on in csgo, 4x and now it dosent work.. even if i change the settings in the nvidia control panel.. what should i do?
why do your player models not have any animations?
On my NVIDIA control panel, theres just the option of 3D-Settings. I'm using a GTX 860M.
You can see the difference between 4k and none 4k image on 720p monitor. 4k monitors doesn't have smaller pixels, what it have is more pixels. That's why 4k monitors are only available in larger screen sizes because of the additional pixels. So as long as you have a appropriate sized monitor for your pixel count, you actually effectively have a smaller part of a 4k monitor.
for some reason i dont get that frame drop , on 4xDSR GTX950 , rolling like a boss . i can see its working , 150FPS in CSGO , should be 60fps on 4k but i dont know , its not
I get between 90-150 fps in CSGO at 1920x1080 with everything lowered. D: It gets blurry if I reduce the resolution anymore :c
So which is better, 4K DSR or actual native 4K screen, i want to know if there are jaggies on native 4k screen monitors if you dont anable Anti-Aliasing
Native 4k is better and no, anti aliasing isn't really needed for 4k, because it's so sharp already.
Kirby's fucking pissed! Yeah i just saw a native 4k personally and now i understand why it is sharper, because pixel density is higher than 1080p
Thanks #Nvidia
I'm totally happy with your new technology called "DSR"
you gave us an amazing solution to not buying those overpriced screens yet :)
but instead having to buy the overpriced graphics cards
150€ for a 1050 Ti
overpriced
choose one
thanks mate !
VSR (no DSR for me) is pretty useful for certain games (*cough* The Crew *cough*) which only have good-looking-and-not-generating-a-black-hole-in-the-gpu for nVidia. I play with more fps with 1440p on a 1080p screen and FXAA than 4XMSAA, and it still looks better.
Since i have a crappy 1366x768 screen im using VSR (the same as DSR, just for AMD) to put my Res on 1080p and im also using Super Sampling. Gives a nice effect. But not too noticable to be honest
Wish DSR had more filtering options.
Only 4x DSR with 0% smoothness looks sharpest while having minimal aliasing and less artifacts.
Anything else 0% looks ugly due to obvious reasons [Not being an integer multiple of native resolution]. I have to set at least 22~33% get rid of artifacts on non 4x DSR resolutions. But those look blurrier than VSR, and Nvidia's own custom resolution downsampling method.
And if I play the game on max 55~60 fps with low graphics and low resolution, what do I do ?
3kliksphilip But what if wallet is not kill?
3kliksphilip
Brilliant.
3kliksphilip I'm a poor brazilian guy, because of this I just answer you in 2016, my internet just load your conmentary now =(
Sell it and get new mecha
I've always used 4x. Yay!
Neat, but how did he die?
Hi! Somehow after this new 60fps update. I can't play 1080p60 videos. The video loads, but it stutters like a maniac. I can watch 1080p with 30 fps without problems, however. Does anyone know a fix to this?
I've used super sampling for playing Dark Souls 2 and honestly it feels really awkward for me. I use a 720p monitor (I haven't had a need to upgrade yet) and render the graphics at 1933x1086. It feels really awkward and quite blury (Not to mention my framerate takes a hit not that it matters in a game that has it's FPS limited to 60). I still stick to native resolutions and use anti-aliasing because I feel like it works far better.
Of course it's blurry when you try to render at such odd resolutions. You'd have to render in 2560x1440 to remove that effect.
Dennis Duda I'm not sure if it's because my native resolution is at 1366x768 but the only other option I'm getting from Experience is 2732x1536. I'll give that a shot and see how it looks. I'll try GeDoSaTo and tinker with that. I'm still probably not going to use it in newer games because of performance hits but it's still fun to see what it looks like.
3kliksphilip Did they enable support for the 600 series yet? I'm pretty sure they did but I still can't find an option for DSR (Other than a few settings to setup DSR in the control panel) to enable it. It's not even in the program settings in the control panel. I'll have to look into it a bit further.
Dennis Duda
Update: Yep, setting to 2732x1536 looked really nice. Still not worth the framerate drop down to 20~ fps but still great for screenshots.
Philip was ahead of the Krieg meta..
Could this really be called a new technology? Downscaling has been around for a very long time. Unless it is processing the image in a strange way in the background, which is possible.
What's your PC specs?
far cry 4 DSR can give 8x msaa quality?
3kliks, do you have a video or something for how you get such crisp quality on your csgo videos?
We need the option to watch 1080p videos in 60 fps and 30 fps, because 1080p60 lags for me :(
ikr?
Theres a Chrome extension called " h264ify " , it lets You do that.
As well as other things, like forcing YT to feed video in the h264 codec instead of their proprietary "vp9" , which can help playback performance on some older machines.
Don't know about the other browsers tho.
And yeah I know, Im like 3 years late... but Im hoping that someone, somewhere, will find this usefull one day :)
Phil what's your current PC build?
3kliksphilip
Thanks
3kliksphilip Wow!
The first youtuber with a system almost identical specs with mine :D
Are you considering doing a similar video for MFAA, as well as its possible benefits?
What's so special about DSR?
I used to downsample higher resolutions to my native one back all the time in the CRT days and I could do it right from the Nvidia driver settings.
It was just the best method back then, but other AA methods are just more efficient with modern graphics cards or at least that's how I understood it.
3kliksphilip The beauty of bicubic sampling.
is 8k DSR supported for 4k gaming? yes, sorry i got too much money.
TheKeule33 I think so but I've never seen anyone try with that
I suppose you need a display with a higher native resolution, with 1920x1080 it let's you go at 4 times your resolution (3840x2160)
So with a 3840x2160 monitor it could go to 7680x4320?
Kalmer yes xddd that will be so useful... you can not notice a pixel at 4K, the market will make you buy a 8K monitor, but is not necessary, i will buy a 4K TV because HDR technology is only on 4K displays, but i don't care the 4K, 1080P DSR or AA options are amazing
SGSSAA 4x FTW!
DSR seems to me to be such a small difference that it wont be noticeable while playing in full speed. Especially not in CS Go as it's not the most PC intensive game. Maybe in a bigger scale game the difference might be much better. But sacking about 100 fps for that small change is a big no for me.
I didn't really understand the full video, can you just tell me which setting to use?
4X MSAA?
3kliksphilip I just tested it, gonna use the 4X MSAA because I don't like the shuttering pixels on my karambit, now it looks clean!
Aare Riives while keeping my fps around 200 still.
yeah, unless you're playing an old game that is locked at 60fps and that doesn't support ssa (witch barely any games do) in that case it is ABOLUTELY worth it in every way ofourse. and what is the difference between 304 fps and 101 anyway? you barely even notice it
HD or FHD?
how can you get 397 fps (on 1080p i assume)?
I have a gtx980 but can only get around 150-200 even on the lowest settings with no AA.
Then you have no GTX 980!
Wtf, i have r9 280x, playing in 1080p all high and i can play with 200fps. You have something really wrong, check your drivers. What cpu you have?
your 980 is broken!
Maybe the game uses your built in gpu if you have one.
Maybe your cpu sucks? For CSGO best are i5 @ 4Ghz+ and better cpus.
I'm still not going to bother with antialiasing until I've got a really really good computer after I graduate from university. At the moment, I would rather beef up other graphic options or just keep it low in general for extremely high fps.
You should have tried SGSSAA aswell. It looks better than standard SSAA 95% of the time but only uses a fraction of the resources.
I enable it in any game I can on my 780 through Nvidia Inspector. ^_^ They might have removed it from the new 900 series though, idk.
You need to jump through a couple of hoops in order to get it to work though.
FreaknShrooms If it's better, why did they remove it?
Whenever I try and open my NVIDIA Control Panel, it just crashes. Anyone know how to fix this?
what happens if I want to be your friend?
Make it a Diffrence if i play on 60FPS or 120FPS but my Screen have only 60fps.
Yes, if you have more fps the monitor shows a "Newer" picture. But 120 is not ideal, because you easily can See ghosting. I locked my fps to 100
do 4x dsr with 8xss or 16xq or 8x msaa
Is there an AMD equivalent to DSR?
3kliksphilip Ok thanks :)
Robbie E If you use CRU you can get your monitor to think it's a 4K monitor. When you play games like that it will be the same as if you were using DSR. There are two caveats though, your monitor can't be locked i.e., not able to accept native signals, and you need to have the bandwidth to do 4K at a decent refresh rate.
how do i activate this fps thingy in the bottom right corner?
net_graph 1 in your console
alright thanks
#NoAAMasterRace
Good video, is great to see that those intermiadte steps weren't as great as they would advertised them, and math logic would tell you that anyway
I'm using a Samsung U28D590D which i payed £359 and bought a £12 DP to mini-DP and now am playing CS:GO in 4k@60hz at 90 fps on my xfx 7870 so saying the cheap 4k screens only support 30hz is just not true.
what gpu do you have fps will vary and you did not mention this variable why you do that?? MMHHH
Кстати, я долго мучился, все говорят, понятно что надо DSR X4 (2160p, 4K) использовать, но это слишком затрачивает производительность.
Идеальным вариантом по мне будет DSR 1.78 (1440p, 2K) и плавностью 36%, потому что мы получим и немного улучшенную детализацию и пикселей, лесенок станет намного меньше, так же можно к нему использовать SMAA и будет просто класс, те кто говорят ставить плавность на 0%, те явно не тестили режимы плавности, ведь при таком значении, картинка жутко резкая и пикселей становится ещё больше, чем в обычном 1080p и поэтому многие не поняли в начале как работает вообще DSR
Лично у меня картинка в ведьмаке 3 стала намного лучше, пропало кучу лесенок и мерцаний, так что надеюсь кому нибудь помог 😉
You will have to open 459 cases.
supersampling masterrace
I simply can't play with anti aliasing, don't know why
Lat6 i bet it's just the shimmers of textures without AA. The shimmer makes enemies more noticeable, while AA makes the model more accurate.
I use 3x DSR in ARMA 3 and OMG! Beautiful.
Iam sad when you can max out some sick ass setting and still have +100 fps when i with everything on lowest cant get 60 ;_;
cant wait for resolution that will make aa disappear as a thing completely.
can you make an update to this vid
I'm not sure, but he (or someone else) made a comparison between dldsr and dsr(googled, it was digital foundry, not him)
will my desktop look like 4k if i turn it on?
Everything will be tiny
***** Ok, thanks for the answer
***** Reported,
***** wow... wtf.
My mind censored your comment in my own brain...
I swear I read "no u suck", hah!
I just play with everything on the highest settings I can get away with.
I found DSR super cool, not for CSS obviously ^^
I, I, I don't understand what im meant to do?
What>
So long as it's not FXAA I'm cool with it
Most of my games look better in higher res like 1440 or 4k on low than they do if i crank aa i just go low and crank up to the highest res i can then add effects till i get somethings that stays above city
howdo u turn aff of this down i have a gtx 770 and an i7 3770 3.6ghz and i get 120 fps evrything on low -_- no my fps is not locked my console fps command is fps_max 0
my vsync is dissabled :s
i get 120/200 fps on low AND on high but it never goes above 200 :s
If you turn on Multicore rendering. It will enable all the cores in your CPU to work. I just changed it and it made my FPS a lot better. You may need to turn on raw imput to get rid of mouse lag with it.
xDAKPRODUCTIONSx i did so and it did not do alot tho :s i already ^put all my cores out of parking...
ZeroTroubles If he had vSync enabled he wouldn't be getting anything over 60
Instead of "1/4 the frame rate" it is more fair to think of it in terms of milliseconds.
Let's say a shading process took 10ms, which is fairly hefty.
If you were getting 2.5ms/frame (400fps) before, it will drop to 12.5ms/frame which is 80fps, or 1/5 the frame rate. Sounds pretty shocking.
However, if you were getting 25ms per frame (40fps) before, it will drop to 35ms/frame, which is about 28fps or a 29% hit, compared to 1/5.
You were getting an outrageous frame rate before, so of course introducing antialiasing methods would be a disproportionately large hit.
There is a 144Hz, 1ms reaction time and 4K display, but costs around 800€ (~1000$).
Edit: Link to it: www.asus.com/Monitors/ROG_SWIFT_PG278Q/
www.amazon.com/PG278Q-27-Inch-Screen-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B00MSOND8C/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1414934136&sr=1-1&keywords=Asus+ROG+Swift+PG278Q
link?
Thats 2560x1440 = 1440p, not 3840 x 2160 = 2160p = 4k
Thats 1440p , not 4k ( in K therms its 2,6K)
I think a lot of people have been confused by 1440p, due to it being advertised as QHD (QHD is the proper name for 2560x1440, it stands for quad HD). It is 4x the resolution of "true high-definition" which is 1280x720 aka 720p. Just as a note 1080p is "full high-definition".
3hit Holy, thank you dude. :D
It's not really a new technology i remember doing downsampling with a amd card on battlefield 3 and that was a few years ago
Yeah, but now there is very little set-up involved.
1.5x dsr is plenty and looks better than anti-aliasing
Just tried to recreate 3kliksphilip s test with no AA just to see how my i5 3570K overclocked to 4.2GHz compared. Results: cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/38605639426305077/5A933F01BC158FABDC8DD07AEB911CA408793AA4/
This is using the video settings recommended in Philip's optimal video settings guide.
3kliksphilip It's not lowest detail everything, it's the optimal settings you suggested for competitive advantage in your older video. I use 4xMSAA just to get rid of the jaggies because they're distracting.
But yeah, I'm not interested in graphical detail at all, I just want the cleanest possible looking game without any dramatic effect on my FPS.
ugggh my mind got lost half way through