When I test a dongle dac I use the 18 watt USB-C output on my desktop computer. Power seems to vary depending on the source (at least on my Questyle M15), my android phone seems to have less Oomph than the desktop or the Ipad. I would imagine this makes testing and stating specs a moving target. I have noticed that more power seems to help bass grip and thumpiness. Thank You for mentioning power output may be different on different source devices, many reviewers do not mention their source component.
No problems. And yes, having more current available will mean that the device can operate further from its limits with more challenging devices. I've never looked into whether dongles will take more current if it's available or if they cap it at some point regardless of what's on tap. I suspect it varies a bit between devices.
The past few years have seen mobile audio performance rapidly improve followed by the price rapidly decreasing. The competition is fierce at the moment and us consumers win.
Thanks for the review. I plan to buy a Dawn Pro. Do I need an inline DAC between my Kamira Duo headset mic and my Samsung S24 Ultra for "prosumer" content creation? If so, what would you recomnend? If not, even better.
The S24 Ultra has no headphone jack so you will need some type of DAC. The challenge is that you need to make sure the device you choose will send the audio from the mic back into the phone. Many audiophile DACs won't do this. I'd probably just grab a USB-C version of the Apple Dongle for content creation and then use the Dawn Pro for higher quality listening.
The power issue could be solved by them by putting in a battery so they don't rely on the sources power. I know a few dongles out there do have built in batteries, but I guess they don't want to weigh them down and keep cost down as well.
It's not that, it's the CS43131 DAC chip, that's the max power you get out of two of them using the integrated amp (it's a DAC/amp chip). There are dongles without batteries with significantly higher power output. Fiio's new KA13 claims 550mW for example. Even a few CS43131-based ones, like the iBasso DC04Pro, claiming 280mW, but they use additional op amps for amplification after the DAC. This adds cost, and can also degrade quality, a little if you do it well, a lot if you don't. Key with these CS43131 devices using the integrated amp is they all measure excellently, it seems very easy to implement if you just use it as a package and almost all of them have stellar noise and distortion measurements.
Exactly. The output power will be limited by any limitations from the supplying device, but after that, the circuit also limits power output as blorg has said. In the end, this has plenty of power for a portable device.
Well the balanced output is actually quite a bit more powerful but ya don't feel it with iems, but when you're trying to drive the he400se, the balanced can make it sound more full and also allows for headroom for extra volume if needed
Following your review I ordered a Dawn Pro directly from China. I received an email saying I would have to wait for another production run because they had sold out. It arrived just before Christmas and I was very pleased with the sound compared to my Hidizs S9 PRO. The only source I use it with is my Galaxy S23. Earlier this week I noticed an issue with the left channel and it turned out to be the cable developing a fault. I suppose at the price I paid from China they must have made cost savings somewhere. I paid £35 including VAT and free delivery. What an absolute bargain. Less than a round of coffees and cake at Starbucks.
Keen to hear a review of the new NEO iDSD 2 from iFi audio. Some interesting discussion on head-fi about peak vs actual power output ratings of headphone amps.
Was looking forward to hearing what you thought of this Lachlan, its funny to me that Moondrop can produce some of the best bang-for-buck items in the whole market, and then also release things like the Joker. Maybe different departments!
I have this, would i notice any improvement if i upgrade to an ifi zen 3 or any other dac amp around the 150-200 dollar range, i have a senheiser 560s its 120ohm impeadance
thanks for the video! I got hd6xx with hidizs s9 pro (not the plus which is their later one) I think It's a good budget option where the two devices complement each other. 6xx is a warmer headphone s9 pro is sterile and neutral, brings the relaxed character of the headphone into more focus. I started thinking about getting the dawn pro just for the sake of interest but now I thought maybe the moondrop dawn would make my 6xx too syrupy and thick? what do you think? I generally like my current combination, not really sure what to complain about. If anything, in some songs I would like a more kicky base and a bit more separation. oh also, the vocals are kind of smaller than off of a laptop. doulby atmos usually fixes some of these issues by the way. thanks :)
I found that I don't like the sound of the Dawn Pro as much as my Note 9 headphone jack. I have a newer phone without the jack though so I wanted to get something similar sounding to the Notes on board Dac. All I know is that it was made by Wolfson. Any idea what I could use?
That's a tough one. I'm guessing the Note 9 is a smoother sounding device overall so perhaps something like an xDuoo Link v2 or an EarMen Eagle could work better for you.
@@PassionforSoundThanks for your reply. I found that the chip used in the Note 9 is the Qualcomm WCD9341 if that helps. Atm I've narrowed down my choices to the two you recommended, the ibasso DC04, and the Periodic Audio Rhodium. I'm pairing whatever I get with the Xenns Mangird Top and will primarily use it on my laptop and phone. There also appears to be two different versions of the xduoo. The xduoo link v2 by fanmusic and the xduoo link v2 bal max by linsoul.
It's the non-balanced version that I've heard (I think) th-cam.com/video/MFqOyWCSQqU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LtxXIBCYYE5lqsio Not to confuse matters, but the Hidizs XO could be another excellent choice
Hi anyone who has knowledge about dac,amps I want to buy dac amp cam anyone help me choosing between Moon Drop dawn pro and Fiio KA3 ? Which one is better
Too bad they're somewhat out of stock on Dawn Pro it seems, despite still selling it. I've ordered mine a week ago on sale and it hasn't even been shipped yet.
Yeah there have been a lot of delays on these sadly. I've been waiting for mine for over a week now and the shipping date doesn't seem to be any time soon.
@@KartikDeshpande042 Yeah, mine isn't any closer either. It's now what, 18 days? And they haven't even sent it yet. We're talking about Moondrop's official store here, not some shady reseller, so there must be some serious availability problems.
It's fine with most planars too. This myth about all planars being difficult to drive is a real problem in our hobby. They are no harder than any equivalent sensitivity dynamic driver headphone.
@@PassionforSoundI tried driving my Sundara with the FiiO BTR5 and it had noticeably worse quality than when I had it plugged into my desktop stack. Mind you, I had the FiiO wired into my computer instead of running through Bluetooth. Maybe the BTR5 specifically isn't all that great with driving Planars. I'm hoping that the Moondrop Pro that I ordered last week will be able to drive them better.
@Keen_Edge What you're hearing there is the fact that tiny, portable devices are a compromise compared to desktop devices because the portable devices have to be miniaturised and work with much lower power consumption
@@PassionforSound that makes sense. There has to be a trade off somewhere. I mostly use the Sundara from the desktop setup, but having an option to be mobile with it too, could be very nice. I have a FiiO K7BT in my shopping cart as a second desktop unit to have at home instead of the office. I'm sure that'll work much better than any dongle DAC would.
In terms of power? Absolutely. You may find an even better dongle can deliver greater detail, etc. (e.g. the Simgot DEW4X th-cam.com/video/fGNSDusIE2k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2wQuD6jgNQH7DTIF)
"it's gonna be able to drive any high impedance headphones very comfortably, but as you do come down into a very low impedance cans you may start to struggle just like with any dongle dac, you may start to struggle with difficult planners, the key takeaway is going to operate as well as any other in normal headphones and definitely IEM's" what fckn sense can we make out of this ?? And you're also talking about it in "build quality " section ? What tf is that supposed to mean ??
the 400 se are hard to drive.. more than sundara.. the edition xs to me seems failry easier than both.. in my opinion can drive both but not even close to their full potential.. especially for the hifiman
Yes the HE400SE will stretch the volume range a bit. HD600 should be fine because it requires more voltage than current and the Dawn Pro provides good levels of voltage.
@@jamesbittle9789 I mean if the dongle is connected to the pc it should have enough power no? For me I mainly use with pc. I think there's a difference if it's connected to a phone Vs pc. Where pc have more power.
Moondrop... Fighting for find a place in the market. And doesnt seem are doing that good.. And once you built a bad name on the market is hard to delete
I don't know that that's accurate. They have produced a couple of excellent dongles and a bunch of VERY popular IEMs. It's just their headphones that are a bit shaky IMO.
@@PassionforSound yes for iems yes like the kato.. Variations.. That's why i said.. Why come out with those headphones.. Heavy... Expansive and not that good sound.. I guess it would have been better test deeply those last products before to send them on the market.. Imnagine if now hifiman starts make bad open back headphones.. I guess people would start look over for a good pair of cans
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
When I test a dongle dac I use the 18 watt USB-C output on my desktop computer. Power seems to vary depending on the source (at least on my Questyle M15), my android phone seems to have less Oomph than the desktop or the Ipad. I would imagine this makes testing and stating specs a moving target. I have noticed that more power seems to help bass grip and thumpiness. Thank You for mentioning power output may be different on different source devices, many reviewers do not mention their source component.
No problems. And yes, having more current available will mean that the device can operate further from its limits with more challenging devices. I've never looked into whether dongles will take more current if it's available or if they cap it at some point regardless of what's on tap. I suspect it varies a bit between devices.
The past few years have seen mobile audio performance rapidly improve followed by the price rapidly decreasing. The competition is fierce at the moment and us consumers win.
I completely agree!
Thanks for the review. I plan to buy a Dawn Pro. Do I need an inline DAC between my Kamira Duo headset mic and my Samsung S24 Ultra for "prosumer" content creation? If so, what would you recomnend? If not, even better.
The S24 Ultra has no headphone jack so you will need some type of DAC. The challenge is that you need to make sure the device you choose will send the audio from the mic back into the phone. Many audiophile DACs won't do this. I'd probably just grab a USB-C version of the Apple Dongle for content creation and then use the Dawn Pro for higher quality listening.
You can grab fiio ka1. It has inline mic support and sounds pretty good
The power issue could be solved by them by putting in a battery so they don't rely on the sources power. I know a few dongles out there do have built in batteries, but I guess they don't want to weigh them down and keep cost down as well.
It's not that, it's the CS43131 DAC chip, that's the max power you get out of two of them using the integrated amp (it's a DAC/amp chip). There are dongles without batteries with significantly higher power output. Fiio's new KA13 claims 550mW for example. Even a few CS43131-based ones, like the iBasso DC04Pro, claiming 280mW, but they use additional op amps for amplification after the DAC. This adds cost, and can also degrade quality, a little if you do it well, a lot if you don't. Key with these CS43131 devices using the integrated amp is they all measure excellently, it seems very easy to implement if you just use it as a package and almost all of them have stellar noise and distortion measurements.
Exactly. The output power will be limited by any limitations from the supplying device, but after that, the circuit also limits power output as blorg has said. In the end, this has plenty of power for a portable device.
Well the balanced output is actually quite a bit more powerful but ya don't feel it with iems, but when you're trying to drive the he400se, the balanced can make it sound more full and also allows for headroom for extra volume if needed
Yes. With more difficult headphones, that's where it will make a difference for sure
Following your review I ordered a Dawn Pro directly from China. I received an email saying I would have to wait for another production run because they had sold out. It arrived just before Christmas and I was very pleased with the sound compared to my Hidizs S9 PRO. The only source I use it with is my Galaxy S23. Earlier this week I noticed an issue with the left channel and it turned out to be the cable developing a fault. I suppose at the price I paid from China they must have made cost savings somewhere. I paid £35 including VAT and free delivery. What an absolute bargain. Less than a round of coffees and cake at Starbucks.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! Sorry to hear about the cable. At least that's the cheapest and easiest part to replace. 🙂
Which replacement cable did you get? I also need a replacement.
Keen to hear a review of the new NEO iDSD 2 from iFi audio.
Some interesting discussion on head-fi about peak vs actual power output ratings of headphone amps.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to iFi products without buying them myself and the channel can't afford to buy all the products that I'd like to.
You have a very soft and relaxing delivery. Nice change from the Linus Tech Tips of the world. 😆🤣
I'm glad you like it. Some channels can be a bit full on. 🙂
Really appreciate this kind of nice review. Keep them coming.
Glad you liked it!
Was looking forward to hearing what you thought of this Lachlan, its funny to me that Moondrop can produce some of the best bang-for-buck items in the whole market, and then also release things like the Joker. Maybe different departments!
I agree. They're quite hit and miss, but mostly (only?) missing with headphones.
I have this, would i notice any improvement if i upgrade to an ifi zen 3 or any other dac amp around the 150-200 dollar range, i have a senheiser 560s its 120ohm impeadance
thanks for the video! I got hd6xx with hidizs s9 pro (not the plus which is their later one) I think It's a good budget option where the two devices complement each other. 6xx is a warmer headphone s9 pro is sterile and neutral, brings the relaxed character of the headphone into more focus. I started thinking about getting the dawn pro just for the sake of interest but now I thought maybe the moondrop dawn would make my 6xx too syrupy and thick? what do you think? I generally like my current combination, not really sure what to complain about. If anything, in some songs I would like a more kicky base and a bit more separation. oh also, the vocals are kind of smaller than off of a laptop. doulby atmos usually fixes some of these issues by the way. thanks :)
The Dawn Pro might be a nice edition to bring a touch more weight to the sound. It's not overly thick so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
The CS43131 and CS43198's are ashe kickers. Try the Topping OCTO dac. Might change your mind about AKM or the ESS designs.
I've already reviewed the OCTO and already was a fan of Cirrus Logic before that. They've been great ever since the days of the Colorfly C4
Come for the review. Stay for the soothing voice.
I'm glad you liked it!
so can this thing run hd58x with 3.5mm, cuz i dont have balance cable
Yep. No dramas there.
@@PassionforSound I had the same question,Thanks
amazing review. You are one of the very best!
Thanks Aaron! I'm glad you liked it. 🙂
Just gor mine 2 days ago. So far, I am ver impressed.
It's a great device. Enjoy!
Does it have heating issue?
@@srambickan No
Is Fiio KA13 a better option for Sennheiser HD 599 than Moondrop Dawn pro
I haven't tried the KA13 - sorry
What dac filter did you use in your moondrop dawn pro?
Just the standard, default one 🙂
Ola, voce sabe me informar se esse dac é compativel com o iPhone 13? porque eu comprei isso, e ele não faz nada quando conecto no iPhone. :(
I don't use iPhones, but you might need the camera adapter to connect it.
I bought this dac and its amazing with my headphones
Should i buy balanced 4.4 cable for this?
I believe it will be slightly better with the 4.4mm connection so I'd say "yes"
@@PassionforSound 👍
Are you going to review Ibasso DC03 Pro, its way more popular hers than Dawn Pro
It's unlikely because I don't have a contact who sends out iBasso samples for review.
I found that I don't like the sound of the Dawn Pro as much as my Note 9 headphone jack. I have a newer phone without the jack though so I wanted to get something similar sounding to the Notes on board Dac. All I know is that it was made by Wolfson. Any idea what I could use?
That's a tough one. I'm guessing the Note 9 is a smoother sounding device overall so perhaps something like an xDuoo Link v2 or an EarMen Eagle could work better for you.
@@PassionforSoundThanks for your reply. I found that the chip used in the Note 9 is the Qualcomm WCD9341 if that helps. Atm I've narrowed down my choices to the two you recommended, the ibasso DC04, and the Periodic Audio Rhodium. I'm pairing whatever I get with the Xenns Mangird Top and will primarily use it on my laptop and phone.
There also appears to be two different versions of the xduoo. The xduoo link v2 by fanmusic and the xduoo link v2 bal max by linsoul.
It's the non-balanced version that I've heard (I think) th-cam.com/video/MFqOyWCSQqU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LtxXIBCYYE5lqsio
Not to confuse matters, but the Hidizs XO could be another excellent choice
Hi anyone who has knowledge about dac,amps
I want to buy dac amp cam anyone help me choosing between Moon Drop dawn pro and Fiio KA3 ?
Which one is better
I haven't tried the KA3 so I can't help her. Hopefully someone else will jump in with first hand experience
Moondrop dawn pro vs ibasso dc03 pro
Which is better in sound?
I don't have a dc03 here to compare. Sorry.
@@PassionforSound can it driver headphones? Like 32 ohm 105db sensitivity
Absolutely
know ur busy but any chance of a AUNE S17 Pro review?
I don't currently have a contact for Aune, but I'll see...
With EQ it would probably struggle a bit with the HE400se I'm guessing, but beyond that no problem.
for sure.. tried the 400 se with a k5 pro ess and the highs were too much.. now with k9 perfect
Yes, HE400SE is getting towards the limits of any USB-only powered dongle and that's before EQ.
@@PassionforSound yes i agree
Too bad they're somewhat out of stock on Dawn Pro it seems, despite still selling it. I've ordered mine a week ago on sale and it hasn't even been shipped yet.
At this price and with this performance, they've probably had trouble keeping up with demand. I hope you get it soon!
Yeah there have been a lot of delays on these sadly. I've been waiting for mine for over a week now and the shipping date doesn't seem to be any time soon.
Bummer! I hope you get it soon
@@KartikDeshpande042 Yeah, mine isn't any closer either. It's now what, 18 days? And they haven't even sent it yet. We're talking about Moondrop's official store here, not some shady reseller, so there must be some serious availability problems.
Alright, 19 days after placing the order they appear to have just shipped it.
Great review. Very detailed. I wouldn't drive planar headphones with these myself, but for IEMs and normal headphones it works great.
It's fine with most planars too. This myth about all planars being difficult to drive is a real problem in our hobby. They are no harder than any equivalent sensitivity dynamic driver headphone.
@@PassionforSoundI tried driving my Sundara with the FiiO BTR5 and it had noticeably worse quality than when I had it plugged into my desktop stack. Mind you, I had the FiiO wired into my computer instead of running through Bluetooth. Maybe the BTR5 specifically isn't all that great with driving Planars. I'm hoping that the Moondrop Pro that I ordered last week will be able to drive them better.
@Keen_Edge What you're hearing there is the fact that tiny, portable devices are a compromise compared to desktop devices because the portable devices have to be miniaturised and work with much lower power consumption
@@PassionforSound that makes sense. There has to be a trade off somewhere. I mostly use the Sundara from the desktop setup, but having an option to be mobile with it too, could be very nice. I have a FiiO K7BT in my shopping cart as a second desktop unit to have at home instead of the office. I'm sure that'll work much better than any dongle DAC would.
Have you ever tried xduoo xd-05 basic? how is that compare to this moondrop dawn pro?
I haven't tried it. Sorry!
Good for 7hz Dioko? Sensibility seems way too low
The Dioko is difficult to drive for an IEM, but there's no IEM I've found that can't be driven well by a dongle like the Dawn Pro so you'll be fine.
If it can drive the Dioko then any iem would work,since the most hard iems to drive are the Dioko and the P1/P2 family from Tin Hifi
Yep. Those are all still quite easy for dongles.
Great explanation! Thanks
I'm glad it was helpful!
Will this go well with Xenns mangrid tea pro ?
I haven't tried those, but I can't see why they wouldn't go well together.
Will this better than my PCs motherboard integrated dac?
Yes. Definitely. 🙂
Does it support mic input?
I actually don't know that as I never use mics on IEMs. It should say on the website if you click through the link in the description.
Hi, do you think is better than ifi go link?
I haven't tried the Go Link so can't say. Sorry.
Sir which one is better shanling ua1plus or moon drop down pro pls tell me
I haven't tried the UA1 Plus - sorry
How does it stack up against the likes of the Fiio Q11?
I haven't tried the Q11
do planar iem(letshuoer s12 pro) do good in moondrop dawn pro? thanks
Absolutely. Any IEM will do great with it.
Need to compare this to iBasso DC05 to see if I should upgrade. Good review.
How does it compare to Fiio Ka 13 ?
I haven't tried the KA13. Sorry.
Same as Fosi Audio DS2 2024 version?
I haven't tried that one
How does it compare to Truthear Shio?
I haven't heard the Shio - sorry.
Would it drive the 650s ??
It should do fine. The HD650S can hit over 110dB with under 2V and the Dawn Pro can deliver 4V max. (That's all balanced output I think)
@@PassionforSound It's on its way! would be nice to have the HD650s at work!
Great news! I hope you love it
Can moondrop down pro dive planner iem 7hz salnotes dioko with full potential???
❤❤❤😊
In terms of power? Absolutely. You may find an even better dongle can deliver greater detail, etc. (e.g. the Simgot DEW4X th-cam.com/video/fGNSDusIE2k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2wQuD6jgNQH7DTIF)
"it's gonna be able to drive any high impedance headphones very comfortably, but as you do come down into a very low impedance cans you may start to struggle just like with any dongle dac, you may start to struggle with difficult planners, the key takeaway is going to operate as well as any other in normal headphones and definitely IEM's" what fckn sense can we make out of this ?? And you're also talking about it in "build quality " section ? What tf is that supposed to mean ??
How do it compare to mojo 2 ?
No comparison, not even close
@@Cestmoi50 you have them both?
Cestmoi is right. They're in completely different leagues. It's a bit like comparing a sporty family car to a Ferrari.
Way better than mojo 2
No. Mojo 2 is way better in almost every category I can think of.
What’s the correct adapter to use with a lightning iphone? The USB-C to lightning adapters on Amazon say “no audio”
I'm actually not sure because I don't use Apple products. Sorry.
@@PassionforSound wait your vlog on a tech channel and dont know how to use a product with an iPhone? I mean no clue? wow.
@phunkfarm it's an audio channel, not a tech channel. I don't review smartphones.
Theres definitely a market for this stuff. I hope more companies make more quality ones cause half the time i just wanna be on my phone or ipad in bed
Can it power beyerdynamic dt770 pro 80ohm?
Definitely. No problems at all
@@PassionforSound thankyou 😊💐
can it drives the he400se and hd600?
the 400 se are hard to drive.. more than sundara.. the edition xs to me seems failry easier than both.. in my opinion can drive both but not even close to their full potential.. especially for the hifiman
Yes the HE400SE will stretch the volume range a bit. HD600 should be fine because it requires more voltage than current and the Dawn Pro provides good levels of voltage.
I haven't tried it with the 600, but it does sound excellent with the 6XX.
@@jamesbittle9789 I mean if the dongle is connected to the pc it should have enough power no? For me I mainly use with pc. I think there's a difference if it's connected to a phone Vs pc. Where pc have more power.
@@jamesbittle9789 they sound... But not as they should of course
They should really get rid of the booby anime girl packaging. Would make it look 100% more serious in an instant.
True, but I gather there's a significant market for that... 🤷
Don't touch the damn waifus. Theyre essential
Yup same as tanchjim space inside out, only looks...Peace!
Moondrop... Fighting for find a place in the market. And doesnt seem are doing that good.. And once you built a bad name on the market is hard to delete
I don't know that that's accurate. They have produced a couple of excellent dongles and a bunch of VERY popular IEMs. It's just their headphones that are a bit shaky IMO.
@@PassionforSound yes for iems yes like the kato.. Variations.. That's why i said.. Why come out with those headphones.. Heavy... Expansive and not that good sound.. I guess it would have been better test deeply those last products before to send them on the market.. Imnagine if now hifiman starts make bad open back headphones.. I guess people would start look over for a good pair of cans