I feel like they're on the right track with Beotodus, specifically him having a horn that lets him do attacks the other piscines can't. Easily the biggest problem with them as a class is that they all feel too similar. Just big fish on legs with the same basic moves.
That's why they gotta start making them big again! But yeah there's a reason it was so easy to group them all into one video lol, they all share so many attacks.
First person I've seen not instantly go "uhh plesioth hitboxes bad=> bad monster" and actually tried understanding what the devs were going for under the limited resources they were given (there is a reason mh1 monsters all use the same animation rig), props.
The thing about Monster Hunter, especially in the early games, is that a lot of monsters have really stupidly annoying strategies to beat us, like Gravios's fire gas. But the whole point is that we work to overcome them. Plesioth's bad hitboxes are bad. Yep. So we gotta deal with them and that's part of the fun. Figuring out the best ways to avoid them. Feel like that aspect has been diminished as both we and the monsters become more complicated. Back in the day the strategies for dealing with monsters were simple but distinct. Now you kind of fight them all in the same way if that makes sense? Idk. This video on Plesioth's hitboxes by Jakob helped me see the light th-cam.com/video/hJWyOpYijtA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=34S--KJevYWncsSG
It’s kinda sad cause I think the piscine wyverns have a lot of potential yet still fall short, I think overall beotodus is my favorite, he just has a nice design with nice, if a bit of an easy fight, the rest range from ok to bad, with cephodrome just straight up being my least favorite monster of all time
ahhh, i’m Italian here is 11pm and I can confirm that one of your videos is the best way to conclude this day. After the ecology video of Oceaniz I can't wait to delve into the gameplay part on these beasts from the infamous hitboxes❤⚔️
Post Watch opinions: in my opinion the piscine wyverns cathegory is the less interesting and creative in the whole franchise, but there are some exceptions like: TriU’s plesioth and his badass underwater mooveset as well as Beotodus. I think Rise’s Juratodus is the most forgettable monster in the entire game (together with barroth), but I really liked the way they transformed his fight into something waaaaaaaay funnier than his world version
Aww man that's really nice to hear! My next video is gonna be a bit longer though (50+ mins) so maybe I should release it earlier... Regarding your other comment, yeah Jyuratodus is a bizarre addition. In a recent interview the MH series producer was talking about how if they kept including all the popular monsters in every game, things would get boring, so they would balance them with less popular monsters. He literally goes on to say "That's why we put Jyuratodus in Rise"
I really like these wyverns and hope underwater comes back to give justice to them in the future. Also I absolutely hate the water levels in Rise/Sunbreak. I loved that there was difficulty traversing water in World and was hip deep at least. Plus it looks so immersion breaking that giant monsters like Jyuratodus, Almudron and Somnacanth can bury themselves in knee deep water and move that fast 😂
I think having the water impede your movement in the Flooded Forest would have made it deeply unpopular. Especially in Sunbreak, imagine fighting Risen Valstrax there. Although if it forced people to bring mirewalker jewels that would be cool...
Still, the devs could have kept the water depth to be hip to chest height even without the slowdown. But yeah, I'd still prefer having to prep mirewalker than just have shallow water
I have a good feeling Plesi will be in wilds. Its about time. I hope they remake Lavasioth again. I honestly like his moves in world but hes supposed to be big and silly
For me, The biggest issue with Piscine wyverns was that they suffer from what I like to call "2 zone syndrome" where in most maps they're locked to 2 or 3 zones in most maps(cephadrome in the dunes, Plesioth in the desert, Lavasioth, and World Jyuratodus). I haven't played 3U but from what I've seen, It's when Plesioth was at it's least annoying. And Rise Jyuratodus is probably the best Piscine wyvern in terms of moveset. GU Lavasioth is really fun, and it was sad to see him absolutely neutered in world. Cephadrome has no reason to exist in GU. If Piscines return, I would like for them to be more distinguished from each other. Plesioth especially could probably use a moveset expansion. And cephadrome could be erased from existence(The only difference between him and Cephalos is that in 4U he has a purple scale drop, which is used to craft one piece of Seregios armor. I don't think he has that in GU, so all of his drops can also be obtained from the smaller Cephalos).
while i think plesioth is a fantastic concept and has a really charming design, i think that he needs a significant revamp if he's to return (he was done really well in 3U, purely because of his underwater moveset) if you think about it, he quite literally has 1 unique move - his "shimmy", which is essentially just the same as any wyvern's charge. (that and his g-rank laser) other than that, he has a bite, a ranged blast, a tail sweep, and a hipcheck - just like any other wyvern. now, this applies to many 1st generation monsters. but for those ones, they either had more impactful unique moves or some kind of unique gimmick. basarios and gravios had thier armor, khezu had his wall-crawling, panic dodge disabling, and electric attacks, gypceros had stealing and his flash. all of those impacted the fight in meaningful ways. but plesioth? his gimmick is that he goes into the water and swims around or shoots useless ranged attacks. essentially, his "gimmick" is a pause button. it grinds the hunt to a halt and forces you to either sonic bomb him out (possibly for him to immediately dive back in), or sit around and wait. the only things that make him somewhat annoying, like you mentioned, are his big hitboxes. which i personally feel are more of a misstep than anything. a damaging attack with a big hitbox should be telegraphed properly and intuitive to avoid. plesioth's attacks are...not that. I think plesioth reeks of missed potential. you could do so much with a giant fish monster, but (possibly due to the limitations of the time), he's essentially just another wyvern that jumps in the water for a while.
Never fought any of these guys except Cephadrome (terrible fight but I love his stupid face) before (I’m taking my time in GU, only just broken into high rank), but I’ve always loved how big the piscines seem and I fully agree with your points about lavasioth being worse in world than GU. Those little looks side to side are very cute, and I don’t think roaring works too well for fish monsters (seeing as fish don’t vocalise too much irl)
Good job on this beefy evolution video. It really is too bad the piscines get a bad rep, but they consistently get handled so poorly it’s a bit hard to defend them as a class. *Plesioth* - I will stand by him always being a FINE fight, though one of the biggest issues with him (shitboxes aside) was baiting out his head, which sat a good meter or so above your own. The worst part about him is his ability to inflict sleep status which always felt random and tacked on. 3U’s rendition of him is definitely the best in my eyes. By shrinking him down to the size of Diablos (he really never had any business being Gravios-sized for how skinny he is), he’s a lot fairer to deal with, and as iffy as underwater combat was, he made for the best aquatic fight in that game. If he ever comes back, just make him as big as he was in 3rd gen. And he can lose the stupid water camping (unless water combat makes a return too). *Cephadrome* - Lost cause. You can’t spend 5 minutes burrowing while occasionally surfacing to inflict paralysis and expect to be fun. *Lavasioth* - This guy was always where it was at. His hurtboxes are larger and easier to hit which makes him more fun than Plesioth by proxy, but his moveset is also just far more interesting. GU’s rendition is the best piscine fight, period. He’s a surprisingly fun and challenging fight. A far better lava fight than Agnaktor. Which is ironic, because he turns into a lame clone of him in World. In fact, he really did lose all of his identity, being relegated to just being “Fire Jyuratodus”, stealing his size, animations, and sound effects, while stealing Aggy’s armor gimmick to boot. If he ever comes back… revert all of the disastrous changes 5th gen made to him. *Jyuratodus* - Very boring and forgettable fight in World (which was kind of a trend for that game). You really never have to see him again after base game as he only appears in a few areas in the waste and is totally absent from the Guiding Lands. Rise made him a decent challenge though. Still not the most amazing fight in the world, but at least he’s better than like, Almudron. *Beotodus* - I just love his concept. Honesty, he’s just a really cool monster to watch in motion. He’s a fun fight, all things considered, but immediately becomes easy as soon as you leave his quest tank. If he comes back, then he needs to receive the rise Jyura treatment and get souped up a bit. Going forward, I really hope this bunch of monsters receives some more fine-tuning, and something to justify their existence as a class a bit more, as they’ve slowly become increasingly more derivative of flying wyverns. It would be refreshing to get a new larger piscine with a completely different skeleton. Like, just give us a big Delex, or something.
Plesioth from 3U is the most fun version of the piscines fight. World Lavasioth is an example of fall from grace Jyuratodos is the definition of mid rise just puts him in slightly above middddd... GU Lavasioth is the most fun land based piscine wyvern fight so far. Beotodus is great but there is only so much one can do with a Jyuratodos skeleton. Cephafuck can go to hell I'd say a revamped Land Plesioth fight with more water attacks will be most welcomed
"Definition of mid" really is the best way to describe Jyura lmao. I also agree on GU Lavasioth, love that dude. I feel like Plesioth is kind of perfect? I'm not sure what new stuff I would really give him.
rise even has the audacity (or balls) to make the most hated monster in world, has a roar, and become A DAMN URGENT QUEST which i found quite hilarious
Yes I second this! I really like all the dromes in general (including the greats). Except bulldrome I gues... that one is very boring to fight, but it is a cool vibe monster. It was nice just seeing it as non target just minding its own business in some quest in FU despite it not having invading as a mechanic yet technically.
@@yurei4414 Personally I feel the dromes are very limited in their fights, especially before gen 4. They barely have any unique moves, and most of them just hit straight ahead. The Greats I feel like have more unique and varied moves as well as more interesting designs.
Tbh having fought 4 of these 2 of rhen more recently since getting back into GU and I can say Plesioth wasn't that bad of a fight just frustrating to hit anything but his legs XD till I used a bow which was fun against him On the other hand Cephladrome can go die in a volcano, that thing is the most obnoxious thing in the world and made me realize most of the monsters I hate fighting are low rank stuff just because they are obnoxious to fight I have no opinion on the Ice one as never fought it
@HeavyWings agreed It's just obnoxious to fight regardless with what because it's so thin but is also tall and when under the sand (which it likes to do a lot) you can only hit that fin which is a pain Lord probably my least favorite monster to fight Rajang I also hate to fight but he is at least just from stress
Beotodus > 3rd Gen Underwater Plesioth > 4th Gen Lavasioth > Jyuratodus > 2nd Gen Lavasioth > 4th Gen Land Plesioth > 3rd and 2nd Gen Land Plesioth > Cephadrome > 5th Gen Lavasioth
Honestly the whole swimming mechanics that are exclusive to specific areas of maps make it so confusing they insist to bring Lavasioth in World or Jyura back in Rise. So much effort had to be put in for monsters that are consistently the least liked in the games. Also Plesioth looks dumb af. It's like Luffy drawing a fishman. Looks like just a big salmon with legs on it. Just derpiest thing in the games.
I love that in stories 2 they made green plesioth's hip check hit box an actual move called hyperspace tackle. I've always fought the best versions of the piscines cause I started in tri & have been Nintendo exclusive for consoles
I could totally be misremembering, but I think cephadrome actually had it's paralyzing leap attack since the very beginning. It just didn't matter because it was very easily avoided. I fought an untold number of them in my MH1 days because I considered them an easy way to make some quick money (money being something you had to grind for in that game instead of just selling half your golden eggs and being set for life)
I find beotodus very cool, i like his design and roar a lot, he feels very unique to me, i hope he comes back in the future though he's alway overlooked i feel... maybe because he's such a low level monster?
He gets overlooked because he's a really early game monster in a pretty stacked expansion, plus he's only in the hoarfrost reach. Not being in the guiding lands at all means he has no endgame relevance sadly, so he gets forgotten. I also think Banbaro stole a lot of his thunder, especially because that guy shows up EVERYWHERE.
i beat alatreon solo without safi armor and without kjarr weapons now all i have to fight is fatalis but i have to augment my armor weapons first@@HeavyWings
@@HeavyWingsMonster Hunter Stories 2 gave Plesioth the best move: Hyperspace Tackle. The hipcheck doesn't even visibly come close to anyone, but the entire party will get hit for big damage.
My next video will be up in two weeks and it might probably be my longest? It's more than 50 minutes long and I talk about Powered-Up states like frenzied or afflicted monsters.
In mh3u, he was peak. Fight him in land by baiting him and you get a predictable, yet strong atacks in land, but if your ballsy you can go in its own turf and swim to him! Amazing. And even in the water, if your really good at water combat can also combat plesioths really good with his more vertical over all yet vertical evade easy. Really i wish underwater comes back, and with it. THE FISH!
Your opinions on old Lavasaioth is basically some of the vibes that made me like Jyura, I sometimes feel like he gets over hated for no reason when in World he was a very interesting figure in the ecosystem of the New World and I love his blunt shark face made of hardened mud. A pretty cute starter monster for the wildspire. But World Lavasaioth isnt so charming. Im not sure why its made smaller in world, and i agree the old animations were full of character, but the lava armor mechanic was always a bit annoying, its just a Jyura that refuses to get damaged.
If Jyuratodus was his Rise difficulty in World then he would have come across a lot better I think. In World they just bizarrely handled him and he was a pushover on top of that. Didn't really make for a memorable experience, which baffled people when he returned for Rise instead of monsters like Odogaron.
@@HeavyWings Well for one thing Odogaron is specifically tied to the Rotten Veil I think it would be really pushing it to add him in Rise's setting just like if they added Girros or Legiana randomly outside or their habitat (and also continent) that they are custom made for. Rise already has issues with monster and habitat distributions being very loose and overlapping especially for monsters that would not make sense. Like Banbaro in Iceborne times 10. The hell is Lunagaron doing in a tropical island for example? Or Tetranodon being everywhere there is water from frozen waters to volcanic to tropical ones? Or Aulmadron appearing in desert maps in master rank and burrowing in solid dirt. Jyura being found in the flooded forest is the most mundane example.
@@HeavyWings If World 2 ever becomes a thing maybe a bigger subspecies of Jyuratodus can live in a full on wetland or swamp instead of dried up shallow river
@@kennethsatria6607 I can answer a few things here. Lunagaron's ecology states that he has an organ that can keep his body cold in environments like the jungle. Almudron's entire thing is using acid to turn any ground into dirt. He uses the acid to melt the ground into his own mud. And Jyura isn't a desert monster, he's a mud monster. If he was a desert monster he'd be in the sandy plains. He's a mud monster, so he's in the map with the most mud.
Lavasioth and Beotodus are the most unique of the mainline piscine wyverns, though that doesn't mean Plesioth isn't interesting, infact I find Jyuratodus the most boring. He's just plesioth but lavasioth and muddy, he may have cool inspirations from different real life mud dwelling fish but that was definitely not translated in any form of “well” into his design, while Plesioth is the og grandpa and still the only one with his shape. Lavasioth and Beotodus are lava and snow fish respectively with their own unique moves (gu lavasioth definitely took inspiration from aruganosu and goruganosu, THE BEST piscine wyverns aside from zenith plesioth, also the originators of bond attacks, after them were the gogarfs) and are definitely the right direction when it comes to piscine wyvern combat for both their swimming and standing phases, though the future of design for said wyverns should be plesioth's body shape with unique features like beotodus' horn, while jyuratodus is literally brown watery muddy lavasioth and not much else, a bit boring considering we have barroth AND now almudron who is basically just better jyuratodus. Plesioth is still my favorite, mostly because of nostalgia and extra points for being a legacy monster, but he also has the most charm from the bullshitboxes to his legacy and everything, he's also the clear favorite child of Capcom when it comes to piscine wyverns considering he's always the one getting variants like explore's white plesioth or zenith plesioth or stories 2.
I don't like any of the piscines, they're boring, they look like shit and their gear is very mid. I wish they'd used the leviathans in world rather than the dumb ugly fish wyverns, even royal ludroth the lamest leviathan is much more exciting than the best piscine (Beo)
IMHO they should've kept Lavasioth's original Japanese name Volganos. Not only does it sound better imo it also doesn't make him seem like a relative to Plesioth.
Volganos does sound quite cool yeah. It's extra weird now because Lavasioth is absolutely a relative of Jyuratodus and not Plesioth, yet his name sounds more like one than the other.
Freedom Unite Lavasioth is one of the very few monsters I can say I "fear" to face. Extremely powerful and highly accurate. Arguably one of the strongest and most troublesome monsters game play wise. If I am fighting it, I always take Evade Extender skill with me. It's the best skill to have against it especially if you are using ranged weapons versus it. In GU it's not so bad since Adept and Valor styles exists along with some of evading Hunter Arts. In World they really nerfed Lavasioth into being one of the easiest monsters. No more accurate U-turn slithering and no big breath explosions unless it's using its strongest breath move.
Favourite Piscine of mine has to be Jyuratodus, the fact his design is not just generic fish traits like Plesioth but based on lobe finned fish is just too sweet for me (lobe-finned fish like coelacanth and lungfish are the ones terrestrial tetrapods evolved from, so I find them extremely fitting for an amphibious wyvern) and the improved fight in Rise helped a lot. Plesioth I used to not like much due to a design I found less interesting and the fact my first experience with it was in Stories 2 and he is so cursed in that game 😂 but now that I'm playing 3U I am really enjoying the fight, tho largely thanks to underwater combat since I don't really like him on land. Beotodus has never truly impressed me, Lavasioth I found boring in Worldborne, and I haven't fought Cephadrome so nothing to say on it. Also fat rip for Delex, only piscine made in 3rd gen and doesn't even get a mention 😂
i love how plesioth's entire existence is just a programming error that they never fixed. it's like they made the art and model for him but forgot to tell the hit box team that he was changed so his legs would be twice as long as other flying wyverns, comparable to deviljho in retrospect, so they put his hit boxes for things like the hip check and tail swipe at the normal rathian height. funny how the tail was fixed in 3u but in GU he has his old tail swipe. cephadrome was only infamous in MH1, the reason was the fact that the timer was much more of a factor in gen 1 to begin with but more so with monsters like him that would obnoxiously stay out of the zone so you couldn't hit him. if the AI wanted to, it could make your damage window a small fraction of the hunt time so it could be nearly impossible to kill it. later gens seam to have fixed this. cephadrome also has paralysis from his bite attack. lavasioth taking the agnaktor gimmick is sad, i don't mind the trait of lava puddles being let behind when he swims around and from his projectiles. beotodus was a potnless addition, like they wanted to redeem the skeleton but it didn't work. i had hoped iceborne would have added a monster that's actually a threat while using the deep water/snow mechanic. the skill for it is only a 1 slot but having literally no reason to bother with it is just sad. we should have something worth taking seriously in the water and all skills should at least have 1 fight where they can shine. beotodus has some moves that make him more unique i guess but it wasn't enough. um "not having anything harder to directly contrast with" for jyratodus? almodron, the better mud user by far. sure he's a different skeleton but he uses that gimmick way better.
We need more varied piscine wyvern like Cephadrome and Plesioth. The first three piscines had the best designs because they didn’t feel unoriginal or copied.
Zamtrios can be fished up with a frog im presuming thats why the footage was there as a leadup to nettable plesioth in 4u. frog does damage also gobul can be frogged.
I think what makes the hip check so frustating, is that its lingering hitbox, so even if you on the other side of the hipcheck, you still get hit, because the initial hitbox is when he stand still (and you on it), just a hunch tho. I found the tail swipe is more infuriating. Though baiting their archaic AI is easier in earlier games, I wish my dumbass 8 years old self back then know about this
I really disliked lavisioth's fight in frontier because his shimmy would cover most of the area and did over half your health but I fought him in mhgu and I really enjoyed because of the openings and his shimmy becoming less annoying
I just fought plesioth and lavasioth in gu, and I have to say I was expecting an extremely awful fight from lavasioth, and I was shocked by how good it was. Plesioth was okay I guess, I didn't hate him, unlike a certain yellow and green velociraptor that can paralyze you. Cephadrome wasn't bad, he was jus annoying Jyuratodus in rise was decent, but not the best Also I want to fight beotodus so badly, he looks really fun but I don't have world
I feel like they're on the right track with Beotodus, specifically him having a horn that lets him do attacks the other piscines can't. Easily the biggest problem with them as a class is that they all feel too similar. Just big fish on legs with the same basic moves.
That's why they gotta start making them big again! But yeah there's a reason it was so easy to group them all into one video lol, they all share so many attacks.
First person I've seen not instantly go "uhh plesioth hitboxes bad=> bad monster" and actually tried understanding what the devs were going for under the limited resources they were given (there is a reason mh1 monsters all use the same animation rig), props.
Plesioth hitboxes bad is greater and equal to bad monster?
The thing about Monster Hunter, especially in the early games, is that a lot of monsters have really stupidly annoying strategies to beat us, like Gravios's fire gas. But the whole point is that we work to overcome them.
Plesioth's bad hitboxes are bad. Yep. So we gotta deal with them and that's part of the fun. Figuring out the best ways to avoid them. Feel like that aspect has been diminished as both we and the monsters become more complicated. Back in the day the strategies for dealing with monsters were simple but distinct. Now you kind of fight them all in the same way if that makes sense? Idk.
This video on Plesioth's hitboxes by Jakob helped me see the light
th-cam.com/video/hJWyOpYijtA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=34S--KJevYWncsSG
Beotudus is 100% the best piscine wyvern they've made yet
He's really good yeah!
Not a high bar when your competition is Lavasioth and telepath Plesioth
It’s kinda sad cause I think the piscine wyverns have a lot of potential yet still fall short, I think overall beotodus is my favorite, he just has a nice design with nice, if a bit of an easy fight, the rest range from ok to bad, with cephodrome just straight up being my least favorite monster of all time
Strongly agree, although I think GU Lavasioth is still my favourite.
ahhh, i’m Italian here is 11pm and I can confirm that one of your videos is the best way to conclude this day. After the ecology video of Oceaniz I can't wait to delve into the gameplay part on these beasts from the infamous hitboxes❤⚔️
Post Watch opinions: in my opinion the piscine wyverns cathegory is the less interesting and creative in the whole franchise, but there are some exceptions like: TriU’s plesioth and his badass underwater mooveset as well as Beotodus. I think Rise’s Juratodus is the most forgettable monster in the entire game (together with barroth), but I really liked the way they transformed his fight into something waaaaaaaay funnier than his world version
Aww man that's really nice to hear! My next video is gonna be a bit longer though (50+ mins) so maybe I should release it earlier...
Regarding your other comment, yeah Jyuratodus is a bizarre addition. In a recent interview the MH series producer was talking about how if they kept including all the popular monsters in every game, things would get boring, so they would balance them with less popular monsters. He literally goes on to say "That's why we put Jyuratodus in Rise"
Ahhhh yea the hip check who can hit you even if you uses bow and bowgun.
Such a classic monster hunter experience.
how could you call my sweet boy cephadrome ugly! his smile is angelic :') i love these videos so much
Imagine Chepadrome going from the worst fight in the entire series to the best piscine Wyvern fight in wilds….
that hip check left me traumatized to this day
plesioth being the reason for 3 ultimate is knowledge that fits now that i think about it.
The legendary hip scoop 😭😭😭
MHFU Plesioth successfully stalled me out by never coming out of the water 😂
I really like these wyverns and hope underwater comes back to give justice to them in the future. Also I absolutely hate the water levels in Rise/Sunbreak. I loved that there was difficulty traversing water in World and was hip deep at least. Plus it looks so immersion breaking that giant monsters like Jyuratodus, Almudron and Somnacanth can bury themselves in knee deep water and move that fast 😂
And Almudron can backstroke while submerged in… grass
I think having the water impede your movement in the Flooded Forest would have made it deeply unpopular. Especially in Sunbreak, imagine fighting Risen Valstrax there.
Although if it forced people to bring mirewalker jewels that would be cool...
Still, the devs could have kept the water depth to be hip to chest height even without the slowdown. But yeah, I'd still prefer having to prep mirewalker than just have shallow water
@@lonradb Almudron uses acid to melt the ground into mud. That's what the golden stuff is.
Imo Beotodus is the only piscine wyvern so far that doesn't suck 😂
Plesioths weakpoint isnt the Head, its the Belly. Mine is Beo, it realy suprised me how fun he was.
I have a good feeling Plesi will be in wilds. Its about time. I hope they remake Lavasioth again. I honestly like his moves in world but hes supposed to be big and silly
For me, The biggest issue with Piscine wyverns was that they suffer from what I like to call "2 zone syndrome" where in most maps they're locked to 2 or 3 zones in most maps(cephadrome in the dunes, Plesioth in the desert, Lavasioth, and World Jyuratodus). I haven't played 3U but from what I've seen, It's when Plesioth was at it's least annoying. And Rise Jyuratodus is probably the best Piscine wyvern in terms of moveset. GU Lavasioth is really fun, and it was sad to see him absolutely neutered in world. Cephadrome has no reason to exist in GU.
If Piscines return, I would like for them to be more distinguished from each other. Plesioth especially could probably use a moveset expansion. And cephadrome could be erased from existence(The only difference between him and Cephalos is that in 4U he has a purple scale drop, which is used to craft one piece of Seregios armor. I don't think he has that in GU, so all of his drops can also be obtained from the smaller Cephalos).
while i think plesioth is a fantastic concept and has a really charming design, i think that he needs a significant revamp if he's to return (he was done really well in 3U, purely because of his underwater moveset)
if you think about it, he quite literally has 1 unique move - his "shimmy", which is essentially just the same as any wyvern's charge. (that and his g-rank laser) other than that, he has a bite, a ranged blast, a tail sweep, and a hipcheck - just like any other wyvern.
now, this applies to many 1st generation monsters. but for those ones, they either had more impactful unique moves or some kind of unique gimmick. basarios and gravios had thier armor, khezu had his wall-crawling, panic dodge disabling, and electric attacks, gypceros had stealing and his flash. all of those impacted the fight in meaningful ways.
but plesioth? his gimmick is that he goes into the water and swims around or shoots useless ranged attacks. essentially, his "gimmick" is a pause button. it grinds the hunt to a halt and forces you to either sonic bomb him out (possibly for him to immediately dive back in), or sit around and wait.
the only things that make him somewhat annoying, like you mentioned, are his big hitboxes. which i personally feel are more of a misstep than anything. a damaging attack with a big hitbox should be telegraphed properly and intuitive to avoid. plesioth's attacks are...not that.
I think plesioth reeks of missed potential. you could do so much with a giant fish monster, but (possibly due to the limitations of the time), he's essentially just another wyvern that jumps in the water for a while.
Never fought any of these guys except Cephadrome (terrible fight but I love his stupid face) before (I’m taking my time in GU, only just broken into high rank), but I’ve always loved how big the piscines seem and I fully agree with your points about lavasioth being worse in world than GU. Those little looks side to side are very cute, and I don’t think roaring works too well for fish monsters (seeing as fish don’t vocalise too much irl)
My problem with the piscine wyverns is they all feel very similar. Lavasioth is a lava version of Plesioth, Cephadrome is a sand plesioth, etc.
Bit like MH1 where most of the roster are just Rathalos variations lol
@@HeavyWings Yeah, Gen 1 in general was like that. Seemed to get better by 2nd gen.
Good job on this beefy evolution video. It really is too bad the piscines get a bad rep, but they consistently get handled so poorly it’s a bit hard to defend them as a class.
*Plesioth* - I will stand by him always being a FINE fight, though one of the biggest issues with him (shitboxes aside) was baiting out his head, which sat a good meter or so above your own. The worst part about him is his ability to inflict sleep status which always felt random and tacked on. 3U’s rendition of him is definitely the best in my eyes. By shrinking him down to the size of Diablos (he really never had any business being Gravios-sized for how skinny he is), he’s a lot fairer to deal with, and as iffy as underwater combat was, he made for the best aquatic fight in that game. If he ever comes back, just make him as big as he was in 3rd gen. And he can lose the stupid water camping (unless water combat makes a return too).
*Cephadrome* - Lost cause. You can’t spend 5 minutes burrowing while occasionally surfacing to inflict paralysis and expect to be fun.
*Lavasioth* - This guy was always where it was at. His hurtboxes are larger and easier to hit which makes him more fun than Plesioth by proxy, but his moveset is also just far more interesting. GU’s rendition is the best piscine fight, period. He’s a surprisingly fun and challenging fight. A far better lava fight than Agnaktor. Which is ironic, because he turns into a lame clone of him in World. In fact, he really did lose all of his identity, being relegated to just being “Fire Jyuratodus”, stealing his size, animations, and sound effects, while stealing Aggy’s armor gimmick to boot. If he ever comes back… revert all of the disastrous changes 5th gen made to him.
*Jyuratodus* - Very boring and forgettable fight in World (which was kind of a trend for that game). You really never have to see him again after base game as he only appears in a few areas in the waste and is totally absent from the Guiding Lands. Rise made him a decent challenge though. Still not the most amazing fight in the world, but at least he’s better than like, Almudron.
*Beotodus* - I just love his concept. Honesty, he’s just a really cool monster to watch in motion. He’s a fun fight, all things considered, but immediately becomes easy as soon as you leave his quest tank. If he comes back, then he needs to receive the rise Jyura treatment and get souped up a bit.
Going forward, I really hope this bunch of monsters receives some more fine-tuning, and something to justify their existence as a class a bit more, as they’ve slowly become increasingly more derivative of flying wyverns. It would be refreshing to get a new larger piscine with a completely different skeleton. Like, just give us a big Delex, or something.
Plesioth from 3U is the most fun version of the piscines fight.
World Lavasioth is an example of fall from grace
Jyuratodos is the definition of mid rise just puts him in slightly above middddd...
GU Lavasioth is the most fun land based piscine wyvern fight so far.
Beotodus is great but there is only so much one can do with a Jyuratodos skeleton.
Cephafuck can go to hell
I'd say a revamped Land Plesioth fight with more water attacks will be most welcomed
"Definition of mid" really is the best way to describe Jyura lmao. I also agree on GU Lavasioth, love that dude.
I feel like Plesioth is kind of perfect? I'm not sure what new stuff I would really give him.
rise even has the audacity (or balls) to make the most hated monster in world, has a roar, and become A DAMN URGENT QUEST
which i found quite hilarious
Cephadrome is the best of all -drome monsters
This is Giadrome disrespect
And I stand firmly by that remark.
Yes I second this! I really like all the dromes in general (including the greats).
Except bulldrome I gues... that one is very boring to fight, but it is a cool vibe monster. It was nice just seeing it as non target just minding its own business in some quest in FU despite it not having invading as a mechanic yet technically.
@@yurei4414 Personally I feel the dromes are very limited in their fights, especially before gen 4. They barely have any unique moves, and most of them just hit straight ahead. The Greats I feel like have more unique and varied moves as well as more interesting designs.
What about tackling changes Frontier made to certain mainline monsters sometime?
We deserve this video 🎉❤
Tbh having fought 4 of these
2 of rhen more recently since getting back into GU and I can say
Plesioth wasn't that bad of a fight just frustrating to hit anything but his legs XD till I used a bow which was fun against him
On the other hand
Cephladrome can go die in a volcano, that thing is the most obnoxious thing in the world and made me realize most of the monsters I hate fighting are low rank stuff just because they are obnoxious to fight
I have no opinion on the Ice one as never fought it
Cephadrome is just awful yeah, never want to see that bozo again.
@HeavyWings agreed
It's just obnoxious to fight regardless with what because it's so thin but is also tall and when under the sand (which it likes to do a lot) you can only hit that fin which is a pain
Lord probably my least favorite monster to fight
Rajang I also hate to fight but he is at least just from stress
what about rise Lavasioth??
That... doesn't exist
You mean Magma Almudrom?
@@connorthompson9He’s talking from a different universe
Beotodus > 3rd Gen Underwater Plesioth > 4th Gen Lavasioth > Jyuratodus > 2nd Gen Lavasioth > 4th Gen Land Plesioth > 3rd and 2nd Gen Land Plesioth > Cephadrome > 5th Gen Lavasioth
Honestly the whole swimming mechanics that are exclusive to specific areas of maps make it so confusing they insist to bring Lavasioth in World or Jyura back in Rise. So much effort had to be put in for monsters that are consistently the least liked in the games.
Also Plesioth looks dumb af. It's like Luffy drawing a fishman. Looks like just a big salmon with legs on it. Just derpiest thing in the games.
Plesioth is by far my least favorite fight in the series. I have no idea why you like it, but more power to you 😅
Beotodus is easily my favourite, everything else is kind of meh.
Old lavasioth getting enraged is always hilarious because he looks like he's having vietnam flashbacks before going back to his derpy self.
It's such a great animation! Lot of character ther!
I love that in stories 2 they made green plesioth's hip check hit box an actual move called hyperspace tackle.
I've always fought the best versions of the piscines cause I started in tri & have been Nintendo exclusive for consoles
Now if only we could have him as a pet in the Stories games!
I could totally be misremembering, but I think cephadrome actually had it's paralyzing leap attack since the very beginning. It just didn't matter because it was very easily avoided. I fought an untold number of them in my MH1 days because I considered them an easy way to make some quick money (money being something you had to grind for in that game instead of just selling half your golden eggs and being set for life)
Ahhh thanks for the correction. I do try to avoid fighting Cephadrome as much as possible, makes sense why I'd miss that.
oh man I remember spamming the hell out of the slay 3 velociprey quest so many times just because its the easiest way to get 300z
Even the Cephalos had them.
I find beotodus very cool, i like his design and roar a lot, he feels very unique to me, i hope he comes back in the future though he's alway overlooked i feel... maybe because he's such a low level monster?
He gets overlooked because he's a really early game monster in a pretty stacked expansion, plus he's only in the hoarfrost reach. Not being in the guiding lands at all means he has no endgame relevance sadly, so he gets forgotten.
I also think Banbaro stole a lot of his thunder, especially because that guy shows up EVERYWHERE.
@@HeavyWings right! I didn't think about the Guiding Lands thing... Damn i really hope the devs don't forget about him!
ah you smell that? it smells like a UNFAIR HIP CHECK FROM A MISTAKE OF A MONSTER
An attack so iconic they gave him an even stronger one in Generations!
then i guess i have to play Generations to experience this supposed ICONIC ATTACK haha @@HeavyWings
i beat alatreon solo without safi armor and without kjarr weapons now all i have to fight is fatalis but i have to augment my armor weapons first@@HeavyWings
@@HeavyWingsMonster Hunter Stories 2 gave Plesioth the best move: Hyperspace Tackle. The hipcheck doesn't even visibly come close to anyone, but the entire party will get hit for big damage.
My next video will be up in two weeks and it might probably be my longest? It's more than 50 minutes long and I talk about Powered-Up states like frenzied or afflicted monsters.
In mh3u, he was peak. Fight him in land by baiting him and you get a predictable, yet strong atacks in land, but if your ballsy you can go in its own turf and swim to him! Amazing. And even in the water, if your really good at water combat can also combat plesioths really good with his more vertical over all yet vertical evade easy. Really i wish underwater comes back, and with it. THE FISH!
More horizontal over*
Your opinions on old Lavasaioth is basically some of the vibes that made me like Jyura, I sometimes feel like he gets over hated for no reason when in World he was a very interesting figure in the ecosystem of the New World and I love his blunt shark face made of hardened mud. A pretty cute starter monster for the wildspire.
But World Lavasaioth isnt so charming.
Im not sure why its made smaller in world, and i agree the old animations were full of character, but the lava armor mechanic was always a bit annoying, its just a Jyura that refuses to get damaged.
If Jyuratodus was his Rise difficulty in World then he would have come across a lot better I think. In World they just bizarrely handled him and he was a pushover on top of that. Didn't really make for a memorable experience, which baffled people when he returned for Rise instead of monsters like Odogaron.
@@HeavyWings Well for one thing Odogaron is specifically tied to the Rotten Veil I think it would be really pushing it to add him in Rise's setting just like if they added Girros or Legiana randomly outside or their habitat (and also continent) that they are custom made for.
Rise already has issues with monster and habitat distributions being very loose and overlapping especially for monsters that would not make sense.
Like Banbaro in Iceborne times 10.
The hell is Lunagaron doing in a tropical island for example? Or Tetranodon being everywhere there is water from frozen waters to volcanic to tropical ones? Or Aulmadron appearing in desert maps in master rank and burrowing in solid dirt.
Jyura being found in the flooded forest is the most mundane example.
@@HeavyWings If World 2 ever becomes a thing maybe a bigger subspecies of Jyuratodus can live in a full on wetland or swamp instead of dried up shallow river
@@kennethsatria6607 I can answer a few things here. Lunagaron's ecology states that he has an organ that can keep his body cold in environments like the jungle. Almudron's entire thing is using acid to turn any ground into dirt. He uses the acid to melt the ground into his own mud. And Jyura isn't a desert monster, he's a mud monster. If he was a desert monster he'd be in the sandy plains. He's a mud monster, so he's in the map with the most mud.
Ouch I just got hipchecked through the screen
Hyperspace Tackle!!!
Lavasioth and Beotodus are the most unique of the mainline piscine wyverns, though that doesn't mean Plesioth isn't interesting, infact I find Jyuratodus the most boring. He's just plesioth but lavasioth and muddy, he may have cool inspirations from different real life mud dwelling fish but that was definitely not translated in any form of “well” into his design, while Plesioth is the og grandpa and still the only one with his shape.
Lavasioth and Beotodus are lava and snow fish respectively with their own unique moves (gu lavasioth definitely took inspiration from aruganosu and goruganosu, THE BEST piscine wyverns aside from zenith plesioth, also the originators of bond attacks, after them were the gogarfs) and are definitely the right direction when it comes to piscine wyvern combat for both their swimming and standing phases, though the future of design for said wyverns should be plesioth's body shape with unique features like beotodus' horn, while jyuratodus is literally brown watery muddy lavasioth and not much else, a bit boring considering we have barroth AND now almudron who is basically just better jyuratodus.
Plesioth is still my favorite, mostly because of nostalgia and extra points for being a legacy monster, but he also has the most charm from the bullshitboxes to his legacy and everything, he's also the clear favorite child of Capcom when it comes to piscine wyverns considering he's always the one getting variants like explore's white plesioth or zenith plesioth or stories 2.
I don't like any of the piscines, they're boring, they look like shit and their gear is very mid. I wish they'd used the leviathans in world rather than the dumb ugly fish wyverns, even royal ludroth the lamest leviathan is much more exciting than the best piscine (Beo)
IMHO they should've kept Lavasioth's original Japanese name Volganos. Not only does it sound better imo it also doesn't make him seem like a relative to Plesioth.
Volganos does sound quite cool yeah. It's extra weird now because Lavasioth is absolutely a relative of Jyuratodus and not Plesioth, yet his name sounds more like one than the other.
I'd say piscine wyverns fall into that weird category of shitmons and have consistently remain shit throughout the series.
I had to fight Plesioth a ton in GU to make my Aerial GS set and he really annoyed me but also kinda endeared himself to me
Go Go Fish Rangers!
Freedom Unite Lavasioth is one of the very few monsters I can say I "fear" to face.
Extremely powerful and highly accurate. Arguably one of the strongest and most troublesome monsters game play wise. If I am fighting it, I always take Evade Extender skill with me. It's the best skill to have against it especially if you are using ranged weapons versus it.
In GU it's not so bad since Adept and Valor styles exists along with some of evading Hunter Arts.
In World they really nerfed Lavasioth into being one of the easiest monsters. No more accurate U-turn slithering and no big breath explosions unless it's using its strongest breath move.
Favourite Piscine of mine has to be Jyuratodus, the fact his design is not just generic fish traits like Plesioth but based on lobe finned fish is just too sweet for me (lobe-finned fish like coelacanth and lungfish are the ones terrestrial tetrapods evolved from, so I find them extremely fitting for an amphibious wyvern) and the improved fight in Rise helped a lot.
Plesioth I used to not like much due to a design I found less interesting and the fact my first experience with it was in Stories 2 and he is so cursed in that game 😂 but now that I'm playing 3U I am really enjoying the fight, tho largely thanks to underwater combat since I don't really like him on land.
Beotodus has never truly impressed me, Lavasioth I found boring in Worldborne, and I haven't fought Cephadrome so nothing to say on it.
Also fat rip for Delex, only piscine made in 3rd gen and doesn't even get a mention 😂
i love how plesioth's entire existence is just a programming error that they never fixed. it's like they made the art and model for him but forgot to tell the hit box team that he was changed so his legs would be twice as long as other flying wyverns, comparable to deviljho in retrospect, so they put his hit boxes for things like the hip check and tail swipe at the normal rathian height. funny how the tail was fixed in 3u but in GU he has his old tail swipe.
cephadrome was only infamous in MH1, the reason was the fact that the timer was much more of a factor in gen 1 to begin with but more so with monsters like him that would obnoxiously stay out of the zone so you couldn't hit him. if the AI wanted to, it could make your damage window a small fraction of the hunt time so it could be nearly impossible to kill it. later gens seam to have fixed this. cephadrome also has paralysis from his bite attack.
lavasioth taking the agnaktor gimmick is sad, i don't mind the trait of lava puddles being let behind when he swims around and from his projectiles.
beotodus was a potnless addition, like they wanted to redeem the skeleton but it didn't work. i had hoped iceborne would have added a monster that's actually a threat while using the deep water/snow mechanic. the skill for it is only a 1 slot but having literally no reason to bother with it is just sad. we should have something worth taking seriously in the water and all skills should at least have 1 fight where they can shine. beotodus has some moves that make him more unique i guess but it wasn't enough.
um "not having anything harder to directly contrast with" for jyratodus? almodron, the better mud user by far. sure he's a different skeleton but he uses that gimmick way better.
We need more varied piscine wyvern like Cephadrome and Plesioth. The first three piscines had the best designs because they didn’t feel unoriginal or copied.
Zamtrios can be fished up with a frog im presuming thats why the footage was there as a leadup to nettable plesioth in 4u.
frog does damage also gobul can be frogged.
during the underground attack sequence lavasioth can be sonic bombed when its standing still.
Unfair hitbox is just my pet name for MH
I think what makes the hip check so frustating, is that its lingering hitbox, so even if you on the other side of the hipcheck, you still get hit, because the initial hitbox is when he stand still (and you on it), just a hunch tho. I found the tail swipe is more infuriating.
Though baiting their archaic AI is easier in earlier games, I wish my dumbass 8 years old self back then know about this
The hipcheck doesn't have many active frames tbf, I've found you consistently can dodge through even without evasion skills.
@@HeavyWings thats the hard part 😁
I really disliked lavisioth's fight in frontier because his shimmy would cover most of the area and did over half your health but I fought him in mhgu and I really enjoyed because of the openings and his shimmy becoming less annoying
He's so big too, kind of hard to dodge at times!
Dodge is a understatement I literally had to be behind him@@HeavyWings
Yayy
Woohoo!
I just fought plesioth and lavasioth in gu, and I have to say I was expecting an extremely awful fight from lavasioth, and I was shocked by how good it was.
Plesioth was okay I guess, I didn't hate him, unlike a certain yellow and green velociraptor that can paralyze you.
Cephadrome wasn't bad, he was jus annoying
Jyuratodus in rise was decent, but not the best
Also I want to fight beotodus so badly, he looks really fun but I don't have world
Yeah same I was so surprised at GU Lavasioth. Really fun fight and the music slaps too.