UNDETECTABLE RADIOS!!!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- This video marks the start of a series where I investigate the stealthiest forms of radio communications devices. Kicking off with the Motorola DTR2450 FHSS Radio (now discontinued for some reason!)
EBIKE CONVERSION KITS
www.kirbebike.com
Seriously mate your content has been getting better and better with each episode!
But the clickbaits... not cool. 😅
Thanks mate... unfortunately we have to clickbait these days on youtube or the algorithm won't show you the videos.
@@andykirby don’t worry about “click baiting” mate, I enjoyed the video regardless.
Surely this should be pinned? lol
@@andykirby Hi Andy cant believe me luck this popped up on my feed I needed some info on these radios as have just had a big box of radio stuff turn up from a asset clearence it has 3 of these radios with lots of new fast chargers software manuels data cables most unopened some new belt clips so if you still want a manuel or 2 software,chargers and belt clips let me know where to send them as a free gift for all the good information you have provided us the rest will go on ebay in the next few days Did yours have a weird sorta white powder on it ?I gave it a quick sniff incase but n joy so I think it may be down to antiviral wipe on the rubber but not sure all the best Steve
Brilliant info as I use radio on my boat so very handy info, also love the music at the end, nice one.
My Family used to run and repair radios and receivers, my dad who is now 86 still messes about in his workshop making / adapting old stuff into newer stuff and is a legend.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 Good to know the passion never goes away. Once a tinkerer always a tinkerer!
He is currently building me a multi network / channel system with AM FM SSB LSB USB as well as a digital secured new connection that he won't go into details about until he has finished it but says it will be a fully secure network and use my server that i have had online for the kast 23 years 🤫🤔👍 will be seeing him over Xmas so will find out how it is going and if ready will.let you know.
One person's difficult to detect is anothers ability to not only find the signal regardless of hopping, but also recognise the RF signature of the particular radio!
BS
Started using the DTR650 and DTR700 last year Apparently, it's up in the ISM Band. Same frequencies that some medical devices use. Most businesses around here are using the default profile and channel so they can be pretty easy to find. If you looking to listen to some or your local businesses, these radios are great a cheap little scanner
What other model are still available on eBay that can do this?
Here in Australia, my cordless house phone (3 cordless 1 base) works exactly like that, on the wifi frequency, frequency hoping, and all that. Purchased in 04. They first showed up in late 90's.
Luvin that beat man👍
Just be cautious, a device so old is a honeypot for hacking and free calls...
@jimbotron70
Yeah thanks for the tip. The base unit gets pinged a few times a week.
I came up with a mod years ago. Thats why I'm still using such old phones.
Cheers.
A 2.4ghz phone from the 2000's 😂😂😂 , your just asking to get hacked
Same with US versions DTR 410, 550 and 650. These are less than $100 used. The newer 600 and 700 versions cost more but just have more channels.
Frequency hopping spread spectrum 90ms hops in 50 channels with private text and digital voice.
Andy, I'm a ham myself but also dabble a bit in music production and I'm interested in hearing about your music background. Maybe a tour of your studio and what tools you use like the DAW etc. Cheers for the effort you put into your vids.
Fantastic video thanks Andy i did have a pair of them radios frequency hopping spread spectrum fantastic radios till i sold to Lewis in Manchester he had a pair of me about 2 yesrs ago i used for bike rides with the kids so no-one could hear them on the radio as was just playing safe back then 😀
I use the Bowman Marconi PRR radios which operate in a small segment of the 2.4 GHz band as well. Have assembled adapters that allow the use of other types of headsets. They seem to be immune to interference from other equipment utilizing adjacent spectrum in the 2.4 band but these can shut down Bluetooth and WiFi signals within several hundred meters. Quite efficient as squad comms for us in Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children’s 12:34 units. Looking forward to the new units that are encrypted and frequency hopping as well. There were plenty on the market about a decade ago so I invested in these as spares for my unit out of pocket, been a lifesaver. Sealed units, rugged, not that small but one can effectively hide the transceiver in one’s pack while routing the antenna on an extension onto the top of the pack or higher topped with a high gain 2.4 GHz antenna. The common router antennas require an adapter that goes from a reverse sma to sma in order to work with these antennas but there are commercial suppliers in the States that will do a custom order for government work supplying +6db gain antennas if bought in bulk with the proper connector installed for these radios.
What is the range ?
I absolutely love the description of the Chinese radios on ebay and Amazon. It cracks me up seeing the creative and totally stupid things the sellers claim. Stealth comms.... Untraceable... Encrypted... Invisible... And so many more descriptive things lol
My "Chinese radio" both feature aes and non standard ctss and dtmf tones , it's OK to be mad that your thousand dollar icom , cant do what a $50 HT can , typical sad ham and you wonder why no body bothers with licencing any more, let me guess you love abusing beofeng owners on your local repeater 😅😅😅
@@aidanm7225 what are you talking about nut? I didn't trash any radio at all. I own multiple Baofengs, TyT and other Chinese radios. Do you have have some issues you need to work out or what? Go get some meds and stop hating things and making ignorant allegations to strangers on the Internet.
Don't know how I ended up watching a video on radios but I did, and I did watch it all the way through. Then I noticed the closing music wasn't stopping, then I remembered the synths in the background, great job, really liked it! You should have kept that going instead of the fade.
I like what I hear on RTL SDR. I have version 3, and version 4 is on the way.
I listen to 10 meters amateur now
being good a lot, Amateur Repeaters,
and broadcast FM too.
I just saw on Tech Minds TH-cam about RTL-SDR 1090, for aircraft
tracking. 😊
I equipped a high-rise building emergency response team with DTR-650's (900MHz ISM here in Canada), and they worked spectacularly through over 20 floors and down into the parking garage. We upgraded to the slightly longer whip antennas. In free space, from the 20th floor, we easily reached out 13km (and could have went farther). Highly recommended piece of tech.
Very interesting, that's impressive range. 900mhz can work extremely well with the right antennas, infact it's very similar to UHF at around 400mhz but because of the frequency hopping its much more resilient to interference. Thanks for your comment.👍🏼
900 MHz, yes, but legal 2.4 GHz european unit is a bad range radio....
Yeah, we managed a couple of miles out of these in our testing, hilltop to hilltop 👍🏼
Really ??? I had a analog 450mhz mobile phone back in the days of analog mobile phones and it would loose the signal inside a car or inside concrete buildings... But It was often very far to the nearest cell phone tower so that might be the reason for it being so sensitive to getting blocked. With a antenna on the car roof you more then 4 doubled the range.
There are also Motorola DLR radios which operate spread spectrum on 900 MHz and would also be undetectable. I believe they are not discontinued and still available for purchase. 900 MHz would also propagate better than 2.4 GHz
Probably not legal to use in the EU considering GSM Telcom systems use a good portion of that part of the band. In the States we have access to a portion of that band for Amateur radio.
Yes in the EU 900mhz will be full of GSM or other Cellular systems. Another commenter said they work well in Canada though.
It’s important to know that if anything requires secure communication it’s best to fully know and trust technology as I will always vulnerabilities in ones that governments would want to discover or even have added in by manufacturer if you truly require a secure solution it is best to not transmit sensitive data and use some kind of encryption system such as one time pad so you can say a series of numbers at the other person could decrypt very easilythat’s my recommendation if you want secure communication as it requires a couple of bits of paper and you don’t have to worry about the technology
Is good information about this radio.. thank you very much..i hope you can share more information for the future 73..
FHSS is one of the first ways people have devised how to avoid signal jamming. It's just that there aren't many civilian applications. If everyone used frequency hopping, they would accidentally overlap frequencies sometimes, also there are laws against doing these things depending on the country.
I grew up near Motorola ... On a Different Note--- I remember when they created the 1st Vibra-sender System and The Elgin Police Department was one of the 1st to try it
You must be from Chicago, gads I remember working on some really old equipment with those components. A very early system of Private Line the big M had patented I believe in the early 60’s or late 50’s.
Good info Andy, thank you for the demos. Cheers from Utah
I use a couple of Motorola DTR 650 hand sets..A bit naughty here in the UK but they work extremely well..
Only if you use 900 MHz.
On 2.4 GHz no problem
Like the Spectrum analyser you got there might think about getting one myself. Great streams you do Andy keep them coming
Such a good video ...... So I bought two units! Thanks 😀
where did you buy them from? can't find them on ebay.
@@militaryrig EBay. UK store.
Tune at the end Andy lad🤜👍
Hello from Cape Town!
The dtr in the US used a lot of 902-928 ism band in the US which was assigned to cordless phones and baby monitors etc. we have some data radios aka 900 MHz wifi, but it is mostly amateur radio use now
And the 900MHz has better coverage than 2.4GHz
Hey if I buy one of them tinySA spectrum analyzers do they come already programmed / set up to read all
Those frequencies? I’m trying to find out frequencies of some different rfid locks I have . Maybe you can help me with that answer
They are very simar to our DTR radios in the US, though ours are on 900MHz ISM band.
Question: Are they capable of DMR and encryption?
The beauty of US regulations on 2 way in the ISM band is not only the FHSS, but you can use DMR. Output is limited to 1W but that's fine for close range groups.
But encryption is also allowed on these radios. Encryption is something of a hot button issue in the US as NO amateur or license free band is lowed to use it, except ISM.
Only commercial/public safety can use encryption other than on the ISM band.
Just curious if it's the same over there.
Andy, I would be curious to see how the frequency hopping radios range would increase or compare with using the stock antenna vs. an after market antenna with some gain. Art. K2ADC. Thank you for the great videos.
I'll sit there with an SDR and then tune into their PMR channels, say hi to local business lol
You say about the PMR radios and how people use them giving no thought that people can hear them, I had to point this out to a local school a while back.
They were discussing all sorts of private things over the air and they had this idea that nobody else could hear them, I scanned for the CT they were using so I could transmit to them and pointed out that every man and his dog could hear what they are saying.
I got a response that they had set a privacy code so how could I hear them or transmit on 'Their' channel (lol) so I had to explain that manufacturers of PMR 446 radios should not be calling CTCSS privacy codes as its nothing of the sort and had to explain that all it does is make their own radios ignore other radios on the same channel which dont have the same CT code set but that a radio with no CT code set can hear all other radios even if those radios have a CT code set and only need to know it to transmit to those radios and even that is trivial to scan for.
Funny how the nature of how they talk on their radios has been very different since I explained this to them ha ha.
Yes I know exactly what you mean. Sounds like you did a good job there 👍🏼
Tested those Motorolas in hydro tunnels in Scotland about 10 years ago. UK version is 100mW, US version is 500mW, but Moto UK wouldn't agree to import them.
They propagate all the way to the noise floor in tunnels - waveguide effect. We got a couple of km out of them underground. The 4m and UHF radios we were testing in parallel went nowhere. Nice radios. Pity they don't make them any more.
We used Motorola PMR 446 radios at work and my boss was always swearing and a school teacher at a local school who also used PMR 446 somehow managed to get her radio on the scanning function and she was picking him up and the kids were hearing the swearing . she then got on the radio to tell him to stop swearing. I did tell my boss other people could here them but he did not listen to me.
Eavesdropping is illegal I think, no?
@@hughjanus7354not on a public frequency
it's PMR 446,@@hughjanus7354 - you need to understand what this is, fundamentally.
although that is an interesting Q: how does the UK's draconian Wireless Telegraphy Act mesh with the idea of a public, free radio band? Is it illegal to listen to PMR446 TXes that aren't meant for you in the same way that it would be to listen to local fireground comms, for instance?
@@hughjanus7354it's an open radio frequency, if somebody was yelling loudly in the street it wouldn't be eavesdropping would it?
Are there any walkie talkie systems using Code Division Spread Spectrum?
Years ago I bought (in Canada) a pair of SS radios from Trisquare. I believe the hopping sequence was not changeable, so you had to buy a pair. I don't remember the frequency band and I always wondered f they were even legal in N, America. 73
Have a sub. Just getting into all this and I like your style.
Thanks and welcome.😁
are there any multiband receivers which give good results in a low to ground location without the possibility of an external antenna?
Awesome video!
Good vid. Like # 556. As an American I like 5.56 ;) Wonder if other radios still in production frequency hop. (for civilian use.)
Cool radios but even your frequency hopping radio is detectable and trackable with the right equipment.. and it is easily available at a cost of ~£1000 on the open market. There is no such thing as completely secure radio but just radio that needs more expensive to equip for.
DSS is very dificult to detect/listen.
The all signal is under thr noise floor....
@@jplacido9999 Well within reach of "alphabet entities"...
So I'm new into radio/comms...but I see everybody with the TinySA Ultra, is it really worth the $150? Or are there more budget ones in with similar features?
Justing trying to gauge how essential it is
I can certainly see potential in these.
Any other sites for radio frequencies all that come up are radio frequencies Uk. struggling to find much i north east England thanks all
Hey just a suggestion for future vids. If possible, could you please put the names or details of all the hardware you use during each vid in the description? Not like a whole spec sheet or anything but maybe just the names or an Amazon link? Trying to look at that Alfa antenna but the ones I keep finding are the RP-SMA and I thought the TinySA’s were regular SMA. Is the antenna actually an RP-SMA and you’re just using an adapter? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Yes I'm using an adapter.👍🏼
amazing video and radio, sad it's not around anymore. thank you
Whats not around?
so despite how hard it is to intercept the signal the 2nd radio does it flawlessly so can others.
safe? I don't think so .
Only if you have these radios (not many do) AND they are not using a private channel/talkgroup
really enjoyed the video
If it produces RF it's detectable the more covert your comms the more of interest to Intel agencies
Looked like narrowband and maybe lower power
interesting video!
but prefer to talk about CB and Pirates
for example where they sit,
countries, frequencies etc...
it should not be a combination of digital computer internet connection,
None of that counts because you might as well call with your cell phone...
Healthy and Friendly Greetings from the Netherlands!
Rob (RadioRob)
I agree, these radios do not use the Internet at all!
Hi and
Thanks for the video.
But what is the make a model number of your little power metre. I hope you can share this with us and do a review.
Geff
Wow, neat content. I had one of your videos pop up on my YT feed the other day. It was good. Now, many of your videos are in my feed, as to be expected. But that's ok.
Subbed, and looking forward to new videos. I'm a retired auto mechanic in Alaska, USA. Looking for a new hobby to keep me busy. The content on your channel is intriguing.
Thanks for the sub, appreciate that 😁 and welcome to the channel!
Meshtastic uses LORA which is a lower frequency than WiFi and also uses a hopping technique. I use on 915 Mhz with a 160mW output in Australia. Encrpyted channels can be setup and every Meshtastic unit is a repeater. Text based only comms. I'd like to see you do a review.
Direct talk on Motorola iden phones uses digital FHSS on 900Mhz ISM band. Too bad most of the handsets are so old at this point.
What’s the model number of the moto DMR radio you used?
Motorola R7 and the small phone like one is SL4000
are these frequencies license free ? or do i need a business band or ham license ?
You need a license only for HAM bands and devices.
I have some discontinued uniden scramble 22 ch gmrs radios.
Nothing is 100% secure.
Not anything a regular joe can buy no. idd Say RAKEL g2 Is pretty water proof tho.
Realist comment ever👍
Nothing is 100% secure but you should be 100% sure what you are using.
@@andykirby always 👍
Turn it off and store in a metal container. That's undetectable!
Bluetooth RF looks similar (hopping around).. try an SA with max hold.. I have a pair of kids digital 2.4GHz walkie-talkies (Dickie) Interesting vid Andy, thanks!
Thanks! Wow that's interesting they are using 2.4ghz for toy walkie talkies now... I'll have to do a teardown! Wonder if you buy a set they talk to other pairs??
@andykirby Yeah I actually managed to solder an SMA tail onto one of these toy radios (measured the signal at 2.485GHz +6dBm).. with a flat panel antenna got it working about 100m los. Not sure what the exact modulation they use, I'm guessing it's GMSK like the Nordic NRF modules. Fun to play with, quite reasonable audio to, think they were not more that'll £20 for a pair. 73.
And wgat about TETRA system that use Motorola , 80% of the police law enforcement and military uses them - they have sim card,can be used as mobile phone,terrestrial trunked radio,radio to radio-direct,and mutch more,it is ILLEGAL to bye one as a civilian
I haven't, but now I want to.
the state can listen to the mobile phone with special radios
Nice apocalyptic prepper radio. thanks
Name of outro song please?
It's called Time
Thanks it reminds me of 'mad world' does anyone agree?
50 - 100milliwatts? What is the range on that? 1/4 of a KM ( 1/10th of a mile?) In NYC that is 2 block? That is pretty usless. Especially with the radio noice NYC has in that area. That is no better than shouting across the distance. It maybe great if one lives in a 1000acre farm but who lives in a 1000acre farm?
Wifi is about that that much power, how far can you take your laptop away from your wifi? Other end of your house before it disconnects?
Back in the 70s we used to have these kid walkie talkies that were on various frequencies including CB, but at 250milliwatts. The range on those things were about 3 NYC blocks, I would guess 2/5ths of a km or a 1/6th of a mile.
I think those radios were a failed experiment and that is why Motorola dropped them because they could not justify their cost to their short range.
Power and range are only loosely related. I've had signals received over 500km away with 500mW on 2 meters. But that was on a high altitude balloon. There are a number of other variables. The biggest challenge with 2.4Ghz is that losses are high as it goes through buildings and trees. With a clear line of sight that 50mW might work fine over like 30km. CB radio is mostly limited by noise, if the band was quiet and the solar conditions were right, that 250mW on SSB might get you heard around the world. Digital modes can take it even further.
Yes, another example is LoRa which can do crazy distances on very low power.
@@lordgarak for low power the perfect dipole or whip is no match for a perfect Yagi
Perhaps the hobbyist equipment can't readily detect/decode some of these devices, but the professional/government spectrum analyzers and other equipment certainly can...
If you only knew, and then some……
thers nothing to detect.
these are untraceable .
@@DevineState not even close, but keep thinking that 👍🏻
@@SIGINT007
I did my home work.
you were right.
they are not secured at all and they can be followed via same pattern key which of course some special agencies will have a ton of.
umm that DTR2450 is 900 MHZ spread spectrum NOT 2.4 gigs bud!
Meshtastic is the same thing hide in the noise of wifi
Meshtastic is 868mhz I believe.
This guy will kill the scanning hobby altogether.
Need a litte more Hardware (FPGA Accalator) & Software for mobile Signals Sim Card And keys images So can make a Clone sim card
The FPGA
RHS Research Xilinx Artix-7 FPGA M.2 Development Board (A200T FPGA/1GB DDR)
No but i had heard of it. Those are pretty pricey units.