Plato's dialogue, the Republic, book 7 (Allegory of the Cave) - Introduction to Philosophy
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In this lecture from my Fall 2011 Introduction to Philosophy class at Marist College, we discuss Plato's Allegory of the Cave, what it meant for him, and what it might mean to students today. We also discuss his metaphysics and the theory of the Forms
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I'm 36 minutes in & am enjoying every second to the fullest..very helpful & insightful to someone reading the book on his own.
Glad to read it
As a teacher, I must say you inspire me Dr Sadler!
Thanks! That's nice to read. I can't say I find myself inspiring - but if what I do helps someone else to do what they do better, that's excellent
The Truman Show or most recently Free Guy are great examples of someone existing in a world that doesn't really exist. Great lecture. This by far is my favorite story and sparks great conversations.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks very much! - I intend to. A lot of new stuff coming up this academic year
The Republic is my favorite book by Plato. I just ordered Plato's complete works at Barnes and Noble.com. Thanks for posting this.
You're welcome!
Thanks!
@xOnimpulsex Thanks! And I will -- although the classes for the semester are coming to and end in a few week. After that, I think I'll be doing some philosophy vids much more closely focused on one topic/issue.
So, what did you think of the Republic, first time around?
I used to get that a lot when I was younger. Not so much these days. I'll take it as a complement!
@FireTex1 I too grew up in the country, and we relied upon our imaginations considerably in our play. I think you're right -- too much TV and particularly the interactive computer gaming world leads to a lack of development of imagination
It is really wonderful that you have recorded these lectures :) you're a very good teacher, keep it up!
@gbisadler This post pertains to the last sentence "I think I'll be doing some philosophy vids much more closely focused on one topic/issure." I've become diseased with a hunger for consilience within my own biology, and Existentialism has captivated me; along side with Bergson and Heidegger, I'd love to entertain my thoughts with some videos on post-modernism and existentialism, plus the two specific intelectuals I've listed above. I'd "like" everyone but I'd understand if you're too busy.
Yes, that is a good one for drawing the analogy -- and yes, I did see it when it first came out, and was actually disappointed to find out what the real status of the village was!
The Village in a sense is like The Game -- as opposed to Dark City, The Matrix, or the 13th Floor -- because there it's less a matter of something like a Cartesian "evil demon," endowed with great powers for systematic deception, and more a matter of human beings setting up the deception
GREAT VIDEO
You're welcome -- I can't claim to play guitar, though I used to play bass a long time back. For the last ten years, though, I've played the banjo -- you can see me putz with it a little bit on one of the Aristotle, Metaphysics bk 1 videos
Quite all right. If you'd like videos that are a bit more rigorous in their readings, you can check out my ongoing Existentialism series, or perhaps the Ethics course videos (where I'm dealing with juniors and seniors).
Unfortunately, nothing, course-wise on Plato at a particularly high level -- I do have a guest lecture, though, discussing the nature of the highest good in Plato, which you could find stimulating. Maybe down the line, when I've got more time, I'll do some higher-level Plato
@xOnimpulsex A big, complex question, or set of questions, which I'm not even sure I'd try tackling myself. Much depends, I suppose, on what you mean by "authenticity" -- I guess, if I, personally, had to pick some interesting places to start in thinking about these matters, I'd want to begin with a good overview of scriptural studies, one that would introduce you to a lot of other scholars and their takes. Brown's Introduction to the New Testament would be that sort of work.
Well.. . . I wouldn't be so quick to judge them. I get to see whether they're thinking about the material or not by reading the paper assignments I give them (quite a lot -- usually around 10-14 1-1.5 page papers and 3 3-5 page papers), and most of them are doing some serious thinking about the material. They're just, on the whole, reluctant to talk in class, for various reasons
@gbisadler thanks man! and I enjoy your lectures very much; just got through reading the republic. keep it up
1.Einstein said..."Imagination is much more important than knowledge"....Today, I think, especially our youth, play video game and the like....they are mere images of what is real...our allegory. Along with TV and computers. When I was young growing up in the forest as an only child. I never had these things. I had to use my imagination. This led me to be creative. I am not saying I know it all, its just that I think my horions were broadened. I often catch myself thinking that all of life is
Well, I'm glad its so simple for you. Why indeed should Plato have written?
This is phenomenal... thanks again Dr. Sadler for all that you do. I'm in PHL 201 at WPU Online and we are diving into Plato and Forms and the Allegory of The Cave and this is helping me out tremendously to see a different angle on it. I hit you up on Facebook a few weeks back and we chatted a little bit about if your were still in NY or not. Love your videos and work.
Glad you're enjoying the videos. Yes, I remember the conversation.
@purpleonionnful Well, I can eventually get to those sorts of things -- but, yes, right now, I'm a bit booked up. I'm going to try to get to some dialectical philosophers -- outside of class -- later this semester, starting with Hegel. After that, well, we'll see....
Yes, quite true, but here's a key difference: despite buying Dianetics once in an airport (when I was flying to my regular duty station, actually, as a young man), I dodged the Scientology bullet!
Well, eventually, I'll get around to it -- these Intro videos are exactly that, the videos from my class, where, unfortunately, we get just 15 weeks
2. like a never ending movie.
Yeah that's what I thought. We're lucky to have the ones you put up anyway. There's not too many videos on this material. I doubt I would have read the text as closely without this additional material. They should hire you to teach longer courses.
Getting out of the cave, then realizing it was all fake, you feel like something died, you, life itself. You then go through, the 7 stages of grief, that's some of the reactions, the actors portray, in the movies mentioned here. Waking Up, is hell, literally, then, when you 're finally, awake, it's so peaceful, a feeling of contentment, and it's kinda heavenly.... ; )
Sounds like you're writing from experience
Gregory B. Sadler, I love the way, you interact, with your students! Your teaching style, got me inspired, as well.Thank You, for responding! Yes, it only has taken me,25 years, to finally adjust my vision, and to literally see, since I left that "cave", and I'm 50, now! lol
This, was me expressing, many aspects, of my experiences, both emotionally, and intellectually. One thing, I figured out, in life, happiness, is not a birth right, and it's never a constant, and the pursuit of it, leads only to misery.. I finally figured that out, and then, came, my sense of contentment, go figure, huh? ; D
It's useful to have these discussions/lectures when reading the book. It gives me a chance to think a bit more about the ideas presented. It's a shame you haven't got one on book 6 too. I quite liked that part, the ideas on being influenced by the society and people around you, in book 6, was interesting to me.
That's a great -- and so far more or less unanswered question -- the big name Plato scholars themselves aren't in agreement about this, mainly, I think because Plato himself, in his dialogues (things might have been different in his own teaching in the Academy), never does specify precisely how many and what things can be Forms. There's no form of mud, we learn, for instance, from the Parmenides -- but that doesn't exactly tell us what the are forms for!
@theforestero Well, Plato himself does not seem particularly preoccupied with what we now call astrology -- the goal for the human being is ultimately to see the Forms, the realities as what they truly are. Later neo-Platonists were interested in such kinds of correspondences, but I've got to admit that my knowledge of later Platonism and neo-Platonism is rather spotty
@996vtwin2 Thanks!
@gbisadler good deal. Im actually thinking about doing some videos of my own, although im much less educated haha. The Republic is definitely a classic. I would say the best I drew from it was Plato's metaphysical points. I can really see the big picture now of why he was the real stepping stone for thinking in the west. I wouldn't call myself a Platonist, but I like a lot of his ideas on his Forms and Justice and they're worth expanding on. Not so much into his political philosophy however
A better way of explaining the circle example is to talk about why it can't be a real circle, the line isn't a line, the radius isn't equal and so forth to show that for Plato not only are physical things not as good as the forms but also that the forms can't exist as physical things.
That's what I am saying. The level the class is requiring us to understand these concepts is the level I understand it after reading through it once. I wish that the level that the class required forced me to have to read it multiple times. And I feel as though I have no right to ask for the class to be harder when I can already tell that some of my classmates of obviously having troubles at the level it is at.
I saw his TED talk I think, there's possibilities that can come from this kind of online teaching, for sure.
I'm not surprised it's difficult to get academic jobs. I've been trying to get into teaching A level/adult education for a while. It's difficult, the UK's austerity program is hitting the FE sector very hard.
This is a freshman-level college class. When I first stated teaching, more than a decade ago, I felt and expressed similar sentiments -- and structured my classes accordingly, losing most of the students in the process.
Plato himself, in the dialogues, has Socrates meet his interlocutors where they are, not where he feels or demands they ought to be. I've come to do the same. Sorry it doesn't meet your own expectations of education, but perhaps this video isn't for you then.
Who should?
Well, if there was a position open, there's a good chance I'd get hired, since they know I do good work. Times are very tough for getting full-time academic positions -- really they have been through most of my career.
There's no organization that founds TH-cam lectures as such. But, Salman Khan got his start here. The trick is to catch the eye of a Bill Gates.
The last part of the lecture about making a relevant response made me laugh because it reminded me of a time I was in an ethics class, and we were analyzing a human research study in which one of the subjects died unnecessarily. When asked who was at fault, I said that it was every citizen's fault because the study was funded by tax-payer dollars.
Needless to say, the professor didn't care for that sense of responsibility.
I know this is irelevant but, what is your position on the authenticittry of the historicity of christianity and its prophecies? I have been wrestling with it for years and am trying to construct a metaphysical view in line with a panentheistic approach but still can get past the possibility of the former. Is there any works that you could recommend to point me in the direction in study of the authenticity of scripture? thanks.
Hello, thank you so much for posting your lectures on TH-cam. Is there anything on the republic book 6?
Not at this point.
Gregory B. Sadler
Thanks for reply. I was having difficulty understanding the analogy of divided line. So I thought you may have it explained.
Are Plato and Aristotle’s definition of dialectic more or less the same?
They're similar, but not the same. And I would focus less on "definition of dialectic" and more on all the other interesting things they say about it
*?
Well, I'd say that both you and your professor are laboring under some mistaken assumptions about what ought to be going on in a philosophy class.
In an intro class, I can't see spending 2 weeks on the divided line and the allegory of the cave. So, no idea what that's about.
On your part, do you really expect to get much out of any text -- not just philosophy, but more broadly speaking -- that you only read once? Classics are classics precisely because you have to read and reread them.
Great class! I'm curious, how many forms did Plato believe there were? When I take his logic to its conclusion I think human form is animal form is life form, life and non life make up existence, which amounts to one form. Did his train of thought differ?
I am in an extremely similar class to this one right now. My professor has spent the last 2 weeks talking about the divided line and the cave allegory. The problem I am running into is everything he explains and expects us to know is to a depth that I get from reading through that part of the book once. I feel like I'm wasting my time going to the class, but I can physically see my "peers" having trouble. Hace you, being a professor, any suggestions?
@xOnimpulsex I would very much encourage you to make videos of your own and post them -- and being "less educated" is not necessarily anything that would affect the quality of the vids -- it's most important to care about the material you're presenting, to know it as something worth knowing about, not so much as sheer information -- to have a desire to communicate what one found there.
I'm a Platonist of sorts myself, particularly when it comes to the forms, participation, and the virtues.
Perhaps the University you work for. There's no organisation that'll fund you tube lectures yet I think, maybe there will be one day though.
i saved ure video's to watch it later . however , i just want to know do you summarise plato's stories? and do you simplify words in these lectures? considering im not a native english speaker. thanks
how can we get out of the cave in this life? is it by death?
Not in the allegory -- you'd want to read that section of the text
I have to say, the Theory of Forms seems not all that complicated. A child could reason that the things we see everyday are just down grades of true things or copies. Why was this Allegory formulated if Plato could have easily explained this without using a story.
Aha, I see! So, the class itself is at too low a level for you.
I'd say this then: there's absolutely nothing to keep YOU from reading more, and challenging yourself by finding less basic-level stuff to engage with -- even reading commentaries on the material (which you will find challenging)
I'd also start looking -- if you've got it at your school -- for more challenging philosophy classes you might take, where you would get some deeper, more complex engagement with the texts and thinkers
He just wanted credit for it probably. lol
I guess you'll need to watch the videos to answer your questions for yourself
It really is okay to throw things at kids who make annoying bag crackling noises when the camera is on.
The class is terrified of speaking.
Hard to tell unless you actually saw them. You must have somehow accessed the reverse camera angle
just from their reluctance to speak its obvious. I experience the same thing with my fellow classmates, either no one has read the text or everyone feels fearful of making a fool of themselves by giving a "wrong" answer. don't you recognize this reluctance to participate in dialogue is a very real barrier to learning? as a philosophy undergrad myself I actually feel that this is undermining the value of my education as it seems that only a handful of people ever contribute to the discussions in class.
haha, it seems you two have aged convergently though, if you know what i mean!
Wow the professor has to be thinking his intro to Philosophy class is too advance for his students.
Odd thing to say.