The "dirty workshop" in the videos (the one with the green mat in the paint booth) is an old farm house from my late grandfather. My mother signed that over to me last year, so I'm fixing up stuff there in between all the other things on my todo-list...
Greetings Atkelar! I still have my Heathkit logic probe. I built it in the late 70s or possibly early 80s. It works and does have two low-voltage incandescent bulbs for low and high. It's very similar to the HPs you worked on. Nice work on those HPs!
Never underestimate home made tools! During my apprenticeship, we had a "logic probe" project too. The result is still working; with red/green LED for high/low, and a built in rectifier so you can hook up the power any way around (would probably fail at 3V - LOL) - but since it was a very low tech approach, it's very bulky. I pondered showing it for comparison, but decided against it... maybe in the follow up video I planned ;)
Certainly a nice score there. All three probes had carbon composite resistors in them, probably a good idea to measure the values of them in case they have drifted a long way from spec, which they can tend to do.
I ran through the performance checks on the probes; they all were within tolerance, so I would expect the resistors to be as well... But I shall check up on them anyhow!
I bought one of these kits NEW! It still works, and as you point out it is still very useful in some cases. Great find! Also thanks for the details about opening up the probes. I have not had any reason to open mine up, but I'm going to see if my logic probe has an incandescent bulb or an LED.
Thanks! You wouldn't happen to recall how much the retail price for that set was when it was new? So far my searches have not yielded any hint. It should have been a new thing in 1976, based on the HP Journal that featured it, but I couldn't find any catalogs or special offers yet.
@@atkelar Good evening - I found the HP 5022 Logic Kit in the HP 1977 catalog and the price listed was $700. I bought the logic kit as a personal purchase, and I doubt I would have paid much more than that. I certainly got my monies worth out of the purchase. Also, I really look forward to your videos, and watching you carry out the restorations. I know I learn something new in each video. Thanks!
Thanks for the update! Not sure if I can promise that *every* video will always have something new in it; but whenever I learn something new or find something surprising, I am sure to point that out; Assuming others might also get a kick out of it ^^ [EDIT] just did some inflation calculation. 700 in 1977 would be over 3600 in today's USD. So based on that, a working set for a mid three digit amount, like they pop up on ebay these days, seems like an "OK" deal. Still... nothing for "just for fun" buys.
yep that is the rare set, I have its poor cousin in the hard plastic box without the current probe. Well at least you did not change out all the caps. ;) The hardest thing to find is that darn power cable for that logic clip ;)
About the sharpie: Have you tried using a whiteboard marker? Whiteboard markers have a solvent in them so they can be wiped off the board. When you apply it over a permanent marker the solvent dissolves the permanent marker and you can wipe it off. (Very handy when someone uses a permanent marker on a whiteboard by mistake.)
Thanks, I thought about something like that too (been teaching IT courses for the better part of my professional career and that's one of the first things they teach the teachers; for obvious reasons 😆 )... but I rather not apply anything more aggressive than IPA to the case; it might discolor - or worse - erode the finish. And right now, the marker is barely visible; I'll stick with that. This fake-leather type of plastic (vinyl?) is still soft and mint, other than the small scuff marks on the side and that sharpie.
Oh, one of these! They are a different beast for sure. I think the TTi one can also measure DC currents? The HP probe just detects pulses, i.e. peaks of AC. Mind you, it's useful to find stuck inputs or the source of a signal by following pulses on PCB traces; Should be useful for finding damaged RAM ICs in banks, like for the C64 or similar, I think. Haven't had a chance to use that one on a real world case...
@@atkelar Yeah, that is why i bought the TTI one as i figured it would do a better job then the HP unobtainable unit.. your lucky you found one, i fixed all kinds of old retro gear ( vides on my youtube) , arcade boards, but the TTI just always seemed to be very hard to use , all the videos of the HP one show it to be way simpler design
Since I never smoked and grew up in a non-smoking household, it took me quite a while to realize that the sticky, yellow substance all over the leads and test equipment I purchased from eBay over the years was nicotine and tar from smoking. Can't understand why anyone would want that in their body. I didn't like to even get it on my hands.
We had a few smokers in our family. Not in our immediate household though, so I was quite aware of the difference. And while I have to say: fresh smoke does smell nice, I also know how stale smoke stinks. But during the 1950s, pretty everybody smoked in labs and workshops; and that carried over to at least the 1980s. I only recall non-smoking areas to become a dominant thing here in the 1990s. So it's a safe bet that anything older than 1980s vintage will have that stuff on or in it.
@@atkelar it was the same in the U.S. By the mid 90's, many places were banning smoking inside of buildings. The shop I work in banned smoking inside about 2002, interestingly, after a German company bought us out. I do have to agree though. My Grandfather rolled his own cigarettes and they had a pleasant fragrant smell. Also, my one Great Uncle smoked a pipe. The tobacco he used also had a pleasant, fragrant scent. But, most mass produced, boxed cigarettes smell terrible.
I have this set. I think there was a related logic comparator, but it's a separate product. I don't find it very useful when working on microcontrollers - things like the pulser are more useful for boards full of logic. The logic probe can be useful but I tend to prefer an oscilloscope probe - it's a lot less ambiguous. The current probe is fascinating but I suspect needs quite a bit of practice to use efficiently. There's another probe and pulser with a very different number - something like 10506. I don't know how they're different.
The "Logic Comparator" (10529A) was essentially a very simple chip tester; it hooks up to DIP16 or smaller packages with the same clip as the logic clip, but then also to a "reference source" on the other side. Any pin that has a different level will light up (again, with a capacitor to stretch differences slightly) - interesting concept, but IMHO hardly worth the almost 300USD these go for. If one comes up for around 100, I'll complete the collection :) The other series is the 10525T one - it seesms that these were the ones with BNC connectors and sold with the 5035T logic lab: they have the BNC connectors... and it seems that the probe doesn't have the memory or CMOS switch? Not sure, but they seem a bit simpler to me. A scope is certainly the next step in the process for me; but I find it much easier to hunt around a board that is misbehaving without glancing over to some other display all the time. Might be just me, but whenever I look away, I keep slipping with the probe 😅
I just realized you can present your bench tour (hopefully upcoming) as a completely believable time travel episode to a 1990's lab. Hide the Keithley 2000 and hang a calendar from the'90s and it'll fly. Ha. First time I've seen you stymied in a disassembly. Albiet a trivial part. Nifty little probes. Do you ever fix something without first doing a complete teardown restoration?
I'm not sure if my workshop will ever be in a condition that I can show it all at the same time... 😁 What part do you mean with the symied? The clip? That is by far the most expensive of the bunch, so I really wouldn't want to do "explorations" there 😊 As for the disassembly: if it's just a repair, then no (disassembly)... but those are rare and don't make good videos...
@atkelar Are you equipping a bench area with most test gear needed or do you move things around as you need them? Yeah,I was joking about the simple little clip. I've not seen anyone fixing vintage gear use such a thorough replace, refurbish and tune up process as you. You run many gremlins out the door before they have a chance. I just expect them to appear using so much vintage gear. I thought we might see you diagnose, repair and calibrate some units using equipment you've restored. Thanks!
I keep the "core things" around my workplace. Soldering station, scope, power supplies and a few meters. The more exotic things, I move around when I need them. And, oh, I do use quite a few of the things I restored almost daily. The Philips power supply, the Grundig isolation transformer and more recently the Keithley 2000. Other things make occasional appearances on my bench; it's just hard to get things into view for a coherent shot sometimes.
Yeah. I've wanted to get some of the old HP test gear. But I always seem to run across the ones that say "for parts" and are $$$$$$$$$$. My luck it would have one of the critical HP unobtanium parts broke and it would get me an expensive boat anchor.
Wonders when the episode of restoring a used barn to store everything that you are collecting will appear.
ummm.... actually... 😅
@@atkelarsomebody got their paws on a nice warehouse?
The "dirty workshop" in the videos (the one with the green mat in the paint booth) is an old farm house from my late grandfather. My mother signed that over to me last year, so I'm fixing up stuff there in between all the other things on my todo-list...
I didn't see ICs in TO-8 packages in ages!
Greetings Atkelar!
I still have my Heathkit logic probe. I built it in the late 70s or possibly early 80s. It works and does have two low-voltage incandescent bulbs for low and high. It's very similar to the HPs you worked on. Nice work on those HPs!
Never underestimate home made tools! During my apprenticeship, we had a "logic probe" project too. The result is still working; with red/green LED for high/low, and a built in rectifier so you can hook up the power any way around (would probably fail at 3V - LOL) - but since it was a very low tech approach, it's very bulky. I pondered showing it for comparison, but decided against it... maybe in the follow up video I planned ;)
Certainly a nice score there. All three probes had carbon composite resistors in them, probably a good idea to measure the values of them in case they have drifted a long way from spec, which they can tend to do.
I ran through the performance checks on the probes; they all were within tolerance, so I would expect the resistors to be as well... But I shall check up on them anyhow!
You really hit the jackpot with how clean they are. Noice!
I bought one of these kits NEW! It still works, and as you point out it is still very useful in some cases. Great find! Also thanks for the details about opening up the probes. I have not had any reason to open mine up, but I'm going to see if my logic probe has an incandescent bulb or an LED.
Thanks! You wouldn't happen to recall how much the retail price for that set was when it was new? So far my searches have not yielded any hint. It should have been a new thing in 1976, based on the HP Journal that featured it, but I couldn't find any catalogs or special offers yet.
@@atkelar Good evening - I found the HP 5022 Logic Kit in the HP 1977 catalog and the price listed was $700. I bought the logic kit as a personal purchase, and I doubt I would have paid much more than that. I certainly got my monies worth out of the purchase. Also, I really look forward to your videos, and watching you carry out the restorations. I know I learn something new in each video. Thanks!
Thanks for the update! Not sure if I can promise that *every* video will always have something new in it; but whenever I learn something new or find something surprising, I am sure to point that out; Assuming others might also get a kick out of it ^^
[EDIT] just did some inflation calculation. 700 in 1977 would be over 3600 in today's USD. So based on that, a working set for a mid three digit amount, like they pop up on ebay these days, seems like an "OK" deal. Still... nothing for "just for fun" buys.
I wish Ebay prices for test equipment weren't so ridiculously high.
yep that is the rare set, I have its poor cousin in the hard plastic box without the current probe. Well at least you did not change out all the caps. ;) The hardest thing to find is that darn power cable for that logic clip ;)
Thanks for the video
17:26 yeah, that one seeped into the backing. Not much you can do about it short of dying the entire case unfortunately.
About the sharpie: Have you tried using a whiteboard marker? Whiteboard markers have a solvent in them so they can be wiped off the board. When you apply it over a permanent marker the solvent dissolves the permanent marker and you can wipe it off. (Very handy when someone uses a permanent marker on a whiteboard by mistake.)
Thanks, I thought about something like that too (been teaching IT courses for the better part of my professional career and that's one of the first things they teach the teachers; for obvious reasons 😆 )... but I rather not apply anything more aggressive than IPA to the case; it might discolor - or worse - erode the finish. And right now, the marker is barely visible; I'll stick with that. This fake-leather type of plastic (vinyl?) is still soft and mint, other than the small scuff marks on the side and that sharpie.
@@atkelar They don't make soft vinyl like they used to!
I been looking for the current probe, i have the TTi Iprober 520 , but feel its way more complicated then the simple HP Current Probe.
Oh, one of these! They are a different beast for sure. I think the TTi one can also measure DC currents? The HP probe just detects pulses, i.e. peaks of AC. Mind you, it's useful to find stuck inputs or the source of a signal by following pulses on PCB traces; Should be useful for finding damaged RAM ICs in banks, like for the C64 or similar, I think. Haven't had a chance to use that one on a real world case...
@@atkelar Yeah, that is why i bought the TTI one as i figured it would do a better job then the HP unobtainable unit.. your lucky you found one, i fixed all kinds of old retro gear ( vides on my youtube) , arcade boards, but the TTI just always seemed to be very hard to use , all the videos of the HP one show it to be way simpler design
Since I never smoked and grew up in a non-smoking household, it took me quite a while to realize that the sticky, yellow substance all over the leads and test equipment I purchased from eBay over the years was nicotine and tar from smoking. Can't understand why anyone would want that in their body. I didn't like to even get it on my hands.
We had a few smokers in our family. Not in our immediate household though, so I was quite aware of the difference. And while I have to say: fresh smoke does smell nice, I also know how stale smoke stinks. But during the 1950s, pretty everybody smoked in labs and workshops; and that carried over to at least the 1980s. I only recall non-smoking areas to become a dominant thing here in the 1990s. So it's a safe bet that anything older than 1980s vintage will have that stuff on or in it.
@@atkelar it was the same in the U.S. By the mid 90's, many places were banning smoking inside of buildings. The shop I work in banned smoking inside about 2002, interestingly, after a German company bought us out.
I do have to agree though. My Grandfather rolled his own cigarettes and they had a pleasant fragrant smell. Also, my one Great Uncle smoked a pipe. The tobacco he used also had a pleasant, fragrant scent. But, most mass produced, boxed cigarettes smell terrible.
I have this set. I think there was a related logic comparator, but it's a separate product. I don't find it very useful when working on microcontrollers - things like the pulser are more useful for boards full of logic. The logic probe can be useful but I tend to prefer an oscilloscope probe - it's a lot less ambiguous. The current probe is fascinating but I suspect needs quite a bit of practice to use efficiently.
There's another probe and pulser with a very different number - something like 10506. I don't know how they're different.
The "Logic Comparator" (10529A) was essentially a very simple chip tester; it hooks up to DIP16 or smaller packages with the same clip as the logic clip, but then also to a "reference source" on the other side. Any pin that has a different level will light up (again, with a capacitor to stretch differences slightly) - interesting concept, but IMHO hardly worth the almost 300USD these go for. If one comes up for around 100, I'll complete the collection :)
The other series is the 10525T one - it seesms that these were the ones with BNC connectors and sold with the 5035T logic lab: they have the BNC connectors... and it seems that the probe doesn't have the memory or CMOS switch? Not sure, but they seem a bit simpler to me.
A scope is certainly the next step in the process for me; but I find it much easier to hunt around a board that is misbehaving without glancing over to some other display all the time. Might be just me, but whenever I look away, I keep slipping with the probe 😅
I just realized you can present your bench tour (hopefully upcoming) as a completely believable time travel episode to a 1990's lab.
Hide the Keithley 2000 and hang a calendar from the'90s and it'll fly.
Ha. First time I've seen you stymied in a disassembly. Albiet a trivial part.
Nifty little probes.
Do you ever fix something without first doing a complete teardown restoration?
I'm not sure if my workshop will ever be in a condition that I can show it all at the same time... 😁
What part do you mean with the symied? The clip? That is by far the most expensive of the bunch, so I really wouldn't want to do "explorations" there 😊
As for the disassembly: if it's just a repair, then no (disassembly)... but those are rare and don't make good videos...
@atkelar Are you equipping a bench area with most test gear needed or do you move things around as you need them?
Yeah,I was joking about the simple little clip.
I've not seen anyone fixing vintage gear use such a thorough replace, refurbish and tune up process as you. You run many gremlins out the door before they have a chance. I just expect them to appear using so much vintage gear.
I thought we might see you diagnose, repair and calibrate some units using equipment you've restored.
Thanks!
I keep the "core things" around my workplace. Soldering station, scope, power supplies and a few meters. The more exotic things, I move around when I need them.
And, oh, I do use quite a few of the things I restored almost daily. The Philips power supply, the Grundig isolation transformer and more recently the Keithley 2000. Other things make occasional appearances on my bench; it's just hard to get things into view for a coherent shot sometimes.
Yeah. I've wanted to get some of the old HP test gear. But I always seem to run across the ones that say "for parts" and are $$$$$$$$$$. My luck it would have one of the critical HP unobtanium parts broke and it would get me an expensive boat anchor.
With the stuff from the "custom IC" era, that is sadly an option. Anything before that or after that should be fixable still.