How to fix Lei to me: On hit, make him have a couple transitions into each stance that are at least +5. Really wish I felt like I had the advantage ON HIT. lol
Thanks for posting this. I was watching this when I got home from work, but I nodded off about halfway through, and was trying to find it on your twitch. You guys have great suggestions. I thought I'd add my 2 cents. Here comes a wall. I really dig the idea of making 1+2, 1 and i13 punish. It is pretty useless now. My idea was making it a fast high homing move, but I like this idea more. He needs more consistent punishment. I don't mean good punishment, but let me hit a few more things. His wonky punish game is too inconsistent. Bad punishment is a fine weakness whiffing punishment to get launched because of odd pushback scenarios is silly, and nevermind second hits of 11, 21/f+21, and f31 whiffing on a successful punish being absolutely stupid. BT stance is more or less fine. It's arguably his most useful all around stance. Maybe make BT41 more consistent in combos by buffing the 1's hit box. I wouldn't mind BT uf4 being more consistent. It is a mid that can be crushed by crouching. I also wouldn't mind BT4 having a transition into another stance similar to BT d4~u/d or BT d4~f. Snake 4 - I'm partial to the idea of making it operate exactly like an i15 version of d4. 0 on hit and you leave snake, but snake 4~d stays in snake at -1. I'm also partial to buffing snake 22 hitboxes all around. The rest of the suggestions are great, but pipe dreams. Dragon - this is exactly where I want Lei to get a new move. He needs a quick low crush. I was thinking, if namco needed to reduce animation production time, that they could use a similar animation to fff1. But in this case he uses a neutral jump as to not go over a d4, the move is still a KD/WS on hit and CH, and on block it is less frames with less push back than fff1. Input would be something like uf1. I would not mind it getting a stance transition by pressing forward input for wakeup on knockdown. Lei pretty much never gets enough frames to have a 100% mixup... So letting some opponents have a single answer to this stance is odd. Crane - fix or replace the RD. Though, I wouldn't mind the ssl into panther to be buffed to similar levels as snake's set into panther, as well. Panther - I also am not a fan of panther 4, but all I'd ask is the speed it up a bit vs the f4 version from neutral, and have high crushing be maintained throughout in the panther version. The move is too slow to come from a stance that can't block mids already. If Namco really wants make it OP then they could make it a power crush lol. Drunken is fine. It's good for keepout and baiting run ins which is its purpose. It can play dead in any stance and avoid armored shoulders and slash kicks, has a high and a low crush if I'm not mistaken, and can cancel into a lot of lei's normal moves with some execution. I wouldn't mind being able to cancel the stance more quickly in order to use df2 or db4 from drunken more quickly to somewhat offset its slower moves. Sit snake - pretty useless. db1 I only use this as a mixup after a Crane 4 CH at the wall. IF they are back to the wall they are face down, can't beat the 1 option with get up kicks, if they get straight up they are in a mixup, if they tech roll they are still in the mixup if you delay. Still the low being so slow makes it fairly weak. I wouldn't mind db1,1+2 being a thing that lets you use this low and immediately stand into drunken at a fairly neutral frame situation. At least then db1 could be used. You could also let me cancel the stance into play dead with d+3+4. This way you could bait reprisals in order to create whiffs or by standing into drunken you could block and maybe get a punish. Phoenix - I agree on making Phoenix 4 +3. It is silly. Id also like to not be forced into snake. So letting me hit PI 4 for returning to normal and PI 4~d to go to snake. The move is too slow to be only minimally + on hit in snake tho. Tornados - low crush earlier, and speed them up a bit. They are slower than some unblockables. Silly. Both the normal tornados and Phoenix tornados need this. General hitbox and pushback adjustment and fixes. Dragon is capable of going into play dead. Id like at least snake to also be able to do this. I also wouldn't mind some stances be capable of transitioning into BT. Let his stances have more interplay. I agree that Magic 4 isn't a Lei thing and I'd rather do lei things, but he didn't get much in return for this nerf to i12. I dunno. Df3 - no taunt on hit, lower hitbox, and we would all be happy. Df1+2 needs looking at. It needs to be better. How? Just buff the move's frames, or increase pushback on hit to make interrupt attempts riskier for the opponent on hit. D2 increase range. I mix this up from SS and drunken with ss22/drunken22. If the opponent is sleeping then they duck thinking I just did drunken22, but I did d22 and I get hits. It makes them not want to chance ducking and I can get frames from the ss22/DRU22 instead of getting launched. Both these moves have i18 startup, and that helps. However d2 whiffs a bit much. This works better than you would think it would. This also gets a df1+2 mixed in periodically. Razor Rush - I don't think Namco will touch RR. I can't blame them either. This move can go from annoying to braindead OP in a few frames. Easily. I personally think that they are working on things around other transitions to make Lei less reliant on RR. I could be wrong. I would leave RR mostly the same. If I were to make a suggestion that would more than likely be OP Instead of changing frames I would let lei step somehow without a transitioning, and add the possibility of him stepping from it with a tap u or d without a forced transition, or allow transitioning by holding u or d. I dunno that might be hella broken. If I could step from RR without transitioning I could CH fish with ssing into a 1+2 or uf3, and then that would help make them freeze up when I do transition imho. Id rather see lei not be entirely reliant on RR, though. The rest of his game is so fun, and constantly using RR could get boring. Wolf rush - yeah, parrying the second hit is BS. Period. Let them try to parry the 3rd hit. Punish me for misusing my move, but not for just using it. Too many parrys in this game to shut this string down. Or make fn44 a thing and make it a high low string to counter this. As of now there is no counter play. I guess you could make fn4 by itself much better on block so lei can try to bait parries. Either they should be able parry/reversal the 4 via a hard read or I should have to make a mistake. D44 - it is a bit bananas for it to be -15. The risk reward is horribly skewed. But, other characters can get launched for similar strings. I think Jin has such a string that is like -15 or -16, and it is i14 iirc. D3 is solid. Dunno why anyone hates the move. Good damage, good pushback, Lei doesn't lower his hitbox like db4 or db3. I use it to pushback sometimes and make resetting the neutral easy, and that is really good when you have a life lead. It's also good to make people dash into df2, but it is what it is. I dont think it needs anything tbh, but I'd rather it be -13 at the worst. B1+2. Speed it up a bit, make it knockdown on hit and ch, gimme a drunken stance transition option. It doesn't need to be a launcher. It just needs to be useable. Ff2 needs something. It's too weak to be -12. It's a bad PC, and only gives plus frames on hit. Rolling into different play dead stances should evade more. Pointless for anything except to play mind games at the moment. B4 - needs to be faster and at least track on one side. I want this move to be better, and more useable. Ff34 - increase hitbox so the 4 doesn't whiff so much in combos. TY. I wouldn't mind another extension that is also high for higher wall splats. Ws21 - wasn't the second hit delayable in TTT2? Can we get that back or let it be delayable for mental frames? Or let it be i13. It would let lei punish -13 and -14 moves from WS by doing only slightly more damage than WS3 and getting plus frames. Either would be fine. Running theme here is to give him more options to counter play opponents and/or more options to transition. These are just some of my unimportant thoughts.
So THESE are the experts on Lei-play that Bamco should be listening to so as to "fix" Lei and stop all the complaints that no one is playing him = Akon, Alltimeszzz, Ahsan Ali, Suiken, PepperBeef and Seik.
An also most of us here.But i believe lei players have so many options on creativity.Its crazy the only thing i learn is with lei is to have fun.You have to many moves to not be all over the place.
I want only a new two hit - string that is locked in sitting snake stance. It will be high and low snake strikes. It will be natural combo on counter but on normal hit the second part of the string (low) will be able to be blocked. If you use only the first part of the string (high), it will be enough positive frames on block that you will be able to keep on poking and dominating. I have already determined the notation for it : sitting snake 2, 2 (high, low) This new string will make other sitting snake attacks (sSNK 4 and sSNK 1) more usefull.
TGR stance - normalize parry frames. 5 gates (3+4, ?) parry - give guaranteed launcher after each parry (come on! I've just parried a move with hell knows how slow animation sSNA - make it autoparry if doing nothing
Very easy buff to make lei way better.Give lei bt better movement.For example from bt if you hold db or df make it cover more distance and give bt ss movement buff as well.This way lei would become the best turtle in the game which has %50 launcher while retreating and can evade anything with movement from all ranges and this will make it so that skill will make the character better rather than buffing all lei players.Also only lei players who are dedicated would get use of this buff rather than tier whores because leis movement requires unique execution to utilize.Best example of it is akon guy from africa.Rather than trying to fix characters weaknesses lets enhance the characters strengths.Lei is not a pressure character it is really obvious to me.He doesn't have good frames and his offence is based on mind games unlike other characters what he has good others don't is his bt and as alltimeszzz said its his best stance.Just buff it in terms of movement and it will fix the character and possibly make it top tier.
I think they could remove st.4 completely (make like df4 be on st.4 instead) if they made 1+2,1 a 13f move, as that would make for a reasonable replacement for a magic 4, it looks cooler, they both launch on ch, they're both highs, but 1+2 has follow-ups and is more damage on normal hit, and 1+2,1 gives a decent BT, but on block it's an indecent BT, so it's kinda fair
Sitting snake should have while standing 3+4. B1+2 headbutt lead into Drunken. Give Drunken 1 some sort of special property like CH stun. Drunken in its state is non-threatening. All stances have one armor move. Give 2 from Play Dead positions a sidestep property. More transitions.
I’ve heard of Seik I’m ashamed! Things I’d love to see - DRAGON 3 be able to transition into PANTHER - DRAGON 1+2 should be able to be used during combos - Bring back FN 4-1 DRAGON transition
Lei's magic 4 is almost useless! Every other character has a killer magic 4. Lei's always had that flicky roundhouse kick, change that or make it launch the opponent closer for an easier launch combo. Alas I hope his new move in S4 will be interesting and useful.
magic 4 is not hard to combo off with razor rush 2 aka dash 2 combos. even the f3 combos aren't too hard offline. also not every character has magic 4 combos anyway, look at leroy for instance, he may have every other move archtype but not that one!
@@bung_chow i agree with the guy below ALLmasked. The magic 4 drops about 50%. And in labbing like crazy since T5dr its also been around that %. Man if you can 100% magic 4 launchers w/Lei I salute you sr!!!
@@Eth3realwarrior i can't 100 percent any combo but i dont see any justification for it to be buffed when there are many other problems with lei that should be adjusted first. The combo is supposed to be difficult and is more rewarding due to that fact, hitbox issues are not rewarding for anyone and should be fixed before anything trivial like combo optimisation. Removing the execution barrier on magic 4 combos devalues the skill it takes to use the character and the mileage you get out of him. Maybe they should make the window slightly bigger to hit f n 2 after CH 4 but only because most people have to play on 4 bar connection. I really believe that offline the drop rate on this combo shouldn't be higher than most other advanced combos.
Woo Seik and Alltimes? Couldn't be happier.
i really appreciate conversations like this, keep up the good work
Akon is world's best Lei player, he defeated jimmy(Mr.Naps) in Evo. Man that match is so sick💓
No no no I'm the best player
I hear "Vigil" in the background. I love that track.
How to fix Lei to me: On hit, make him have a couple transitions into each stance that are at least +5. Really wish I felt like I had the advantage ON HIT. lol
Most of his transitions are deadly on hit
Thanks for posting this. I was watching this when I got home from work, but I nodded off about halfway through, and was trying to find it on your twitch. You guys have great suggestions. I thought I'd add my 2 cents. Here comes a wall.
I really dig the idea of making 1+2, 1 and i13 punish. It is pretty useless now. My idea was making it a fast high homing move, but I like this idea more.
He needs more consistent punishment. I don't mean good punishment, but let me hit a few more things. His wonky punish game is too inconsistent. Bad punishment is a fine weakness whiffing punishment to get launched because of odd pushback scenarios is silly, and nevermind second hits of 11, 21/f+21, and f31 whiffing on a successful punish being absolutely stupid.
BT stance is more or less fine. It's arguably his most useful all around stance. Maybe make BT41 more consistent in combos by buffing the 1's hit box. I wouldn't mind BT uf4 being more consistent. It is a mid that can be crushed by crouching. I also wouldn't mind BT4 having a transition into another stance similar to BT d4~u/d or BT d4~f.
Snake 4 - I'm partial to the idea of making it operate exactly like an i15 version of d4. 0 on hit and you leave snake, but snake 4~d stays in snake at -1.
I'm also partial to buffing snake 22 hitboxes all around. The rest of the suggestions are great, but pipe dreams.
Dragon - this is exactly where I want Lei to get a new move. He needs a quick low crush. I was thinking, if namco needed to reduce animation production time, that they could use a similar animation to fff1. But in this case he uses a neutral jump as to not go over a d4, the move is still a KD/WS on hit and CH, and on block it is less frames with less push back than fff1. Input would be something like uf1. I would not mind it getting a stance transition by pressing forward input for wakeup on knockdown. Lei pretty much never gets enough frames to have a 100% mixup... So letting some opponents have a single answer to this stance is odd.
Crane - fix or replace the RD. Though, I wouldn't mind the ssl into panther to be buffed to similar levels as snake's set into panther, as well.
Panther - I also am not a fan of panther 4, but all I'd ask is the speed it up a bit vs the f4 version from neutral, and have high crushing be maintained throughout in the panther version. The move is too slow to come from a stance that can't block mids already. If Namco really wants make it OP then they could make it a power crush lol.
Drunken is fine. It's good for keepout and baiting run ins which is its purpose. It can play dead in any stance and avoid armored shoulders and slash kicks, has a high and a low crush if I'm not mistaken, and can cancel into a lot of lei's normal moves with some execution. I wouldn't mind being able to cancel the stance more quickly in order to use df2 or db4 from drunken more quickly to somewhat offset its slower moves.
Sit snake - pretty useless. db1 I only use this as a mixup after a Crane 4 CH at the wall. IF they are back to the wall they are face down, can't beat the 1 option with get up kicks, if they get straight up they are in a mixup, if they tech roll they are still in the mixup if you delay. Still the low being so slow makes it fairly weak. I wouldn't mind db1,1+2 being a thing that lets you use this low and immediately stand into drunken at a fairly neutral frame situation. At least then db1 could be used. You could also let me cancel the stance into play dead with d+3+4. This way you could bait reprisals in order to create whiffs or by standing into drunken you could block and maybe get a punish.
Phoenix - I agree on making Phoenix 4 +3. It is silly. Id also like to not be forced into snake. So letting me hit PI 4 for returning to normal and PI 4~d to go to snake. The move is too slow to be only minimally + on hit in snake tho.
Tornados - low crush earlier, and speed them up a bit. They are slower than some unblockables. Silly. Both the normal tornados and Phoenix tornados need this.
General hitbox and pushback adjustment and fixes.
Dragon is capable of going into play dead. Id like at least snake to also be able to do this. I also wouldn't mind some stances be capable of transitioning into BT. Let his stances have more interplay.
I agree that Magic 4 isn't a Lei thing and I'd rather do lei things, but he didn't get much in return for this nerf to i12. I dunno.
Df3 - no taunt on hit, lower hitbox, and we would all be happy.
Df1+2 needs looking at. It needs to be better. How? Just buff the move's frames, or increase pushback on hit to make interrupt attempts riskier for the opponent on hit.
D2 increase range. I mix this up from SS and drunken with ss22/drunken22. If the opponent is sleeping then they duck thinking I just did drunken22, but I did d22 and I get hits. It makes them not want to chance ducking and I can get frames from the ss22/DRU22 instead of getting launched. Both these moves have i18 startup, and that helps. However d2 whiffs a bit much. This works better than you would think it would. This also gets a df1+2 mixed in periodically.
Razor Rush - I don't think Namco will touch RR. I can't blame them either. This move can go from annoying to braindead OP in a few frames. Easily. I personally think that they are working on things around other transitions to make Lei less reliant on RR. I could be wrong. I would leave RR mostly the same. If I were to make a suggestion that would more than likely be OP Instead of changing frames I would let lei step somehow without a transitioning, and add the possibility of him stepping from it with a tap u or d without a forced transition, or allow transitioning by holding u or d. I dunno that might be hella broken. If I could step from RR without transitioning I could CH fish with ssing into a 1+2 or uf3, and then that would help make them freeze up when I do transition imho. Id rather see lei not be entirely reliant on RR, though. The rest of his game is so fun, and constantly using RR could get boring.
Wolf rush - yeah, parrying the second hit is BS. Period. Let them try to parry the 3rd hit. Punish me for misusing my move, but not for just using it. Too many parrys in this game to shut this string down. Or make fn44 a thing and make it a high low string to counter this. As of now there is no counter play. I guess you could make fn4 by itself much better on block so lei can try to bait parries. Either they should be able parry/reversal the 4 via a hard read or I should have to make a mistake.
D44 - it is a bit bananas for it to be -15. The risk reward is horribly skewed. But, other characters can get launched for similar strings. I think Jin has such a string that is like -15 or -16, and it is i14 iirc.
D3 is solid. Dunno why anyone hates the move. Good damage, good pushback, Lei doesn't lower his hitbox like db4 or db3. I use it to pushback sometimes and make resetting the neutral easy, and that is really good when you have a life lead. It's also good to make people dash into df2, but it is what it is. I dont think it needs anything tbh, but I'd rather it be -13 at the worst.
B1+2. Speed it up a bit, make it knockdown on hit and ch, gimme a drunken stance transition option. It doesn't need to be a launcher. It just needs to be useable.
Ff2 needs something. It's too weak to be -12. It's a bad PC, and only gives plus frames on hit.
Rolling into different play dead stances should evade more. Pointless for anything except to play mind games at the moment.
B4 - needs to be faster and at least track on one side. I want this move to be better, and more useable.
Ff34 - increase hitbox so the 4 doesn't whiff so much in combos. TY. I wouldn't mind another extension that is also high for higher wall splats.
Ws21 - wasn't the second hit delayable in TTT2? Can we get that back or let it be delayable for mental frames? Or let it be i13. It would let lei punish -13 and -14 moves from WS by doing only slightly more damage than WS3 and getting plus frames. Either would be fine.
Running theme here is to give him more options to counter play opponents and/or more options to transition.
These are just some of my unimportant thoughts.
Easy solution for the Dragon stance: make dra 1 animation as low parry, and also break frame i14 as his dru throw
i want to see the frame trap come back after panther 2 ....still messes me up till this day when i forget its gone :(
Shut up
@@Jabermania -_-
So THESE are the experts on Lei-play that Bamco should be listening to so as to "fix" Lei and stop all the complaints that no one is playing him = Akon, Alltimeszzz, Ahsan Ali, Suiken, PepperBeef and Seik.
Me
An also most of us here.But i believe lei players have so many options on creativity.Its crazy the only thing i learn is with lei is to have fun.You have to many moves to not be all over the place.
UF3+4 whiffs on Alisa's slide kick
I want only a new two hit - string that is locked in sitting snake stance. It will be high and low snake strikes. It will be natural combo on counter but on normal hit the second part of the string (low) will be able to be blocked.
If you use only the first part of the string (high), it will be enough positive frames on block that you will be able to keep on poking and dominating.
I have already determined the notation for it :
sitting snake 2, 2 (high, low)
This new string will make other sitting snake attacks (sSNK 4 and sSNK 1) more usefull.
TGR stance - normalize parry frames.
5 gates (3+4, ?) parry - give guaranteed launcher after each parry (come on! I've just parried a move with hell knows how slow animation
sSNA - make it autoparry if doing nothing
Very easy buff to make lei way better.Give lei bt better movement.For example from bt if you hold db or df make it cover more distance and give bt ss movement buff as well.This way lei would become the best turtle in the game which has %50 launcher while retreating and can evade anything with movement from all ranges and this will make it so that skill will make the character better rather than buffing all lei players.Also only lei players who are dedicated would get use of this buff rather than tier whores because leis movement requires unique execution to utilize.Best example of it is akon guy from africa.Rather than trying to fix characters weaknesses lets enhance the characters strengths.Lei is not a pressure character it is really obvious to me.He doesn't have good frames and his offence is based on mind games unlike other characters what he has good others don't is his bt and as alltimeszzz said its his best stance.Just buff it in terms of movement and it will fix the character and possibly make it top tier.
d4,4 - we have 1/3 of roster with low-mid strings, which are -12 or lower, or even safe, or mentally safe because of third hit potential followup
58:49 Marduk's d4 is still unparryable
Yup! You can't parry a knee. So maybe give Lei a low head butt !
I think they could remove st.4 completely (make like df4 be on st.4 instead) if they made 1+2,1 a 13f move, as that would make for a reasonable replacement for a magic 4, it looks cooler, they both launch on ch, they're both highs, but 1+2 has follow-ups and is more damage on normal hit, and 1+2,1 gives a decent BT, but on block it's an indecent BT, so it's kinda fair
This would be cool, Eddy has a i12 standing 4, very similar.
Leis new move a 12 f mid hahaha hell yeah unbelievable
Hello, Great conversations. Does Lei have any other block stuns other than his windmill kick?
Dragon Roar
Sitting snake should have while standing 3+4.
B1+2 headbutt lead into Drunken.
Give Drunken 1 some sort of special property like CH stun. Drunken in its state is non-threatening.
All stances have one armor move.
Give 2 from Play Dead positions a sidestep property.
More transitions.
You drunk bro
B1+2 is useful VS Asuka parry spam
I’ve heard of Seik I’m ashamed!
Things I’d love to see
- DRAGON 3 be able to transition into PANTHER
- DRAGON 1+2 should be able to be used during combos
- Bring back FN 4-1 DRAGON transition
14 minutes of video... no mentioning of absolutelly broken RA near the wall...
Believe it or not, Lei has way worse things that need to be examined.
I've lost so many games with RA switching sides and whiffing at the wall 😭
Lei's magic 4 is almost useless! Every other character has a killer magic 4. Lei's always had that flicky roundhouse kick, change that or make it launch the opponent closer for an easier launch combo. Alas I hope his new move in S4 will be interesting and useful.
magic 4 is not hard to combo off with razor rush 2 aka dash 2 combos. even the f3 combos aren't too hard offline. also not every character has magic 4 combos anyway, look at leroy for instance, he may have every other move archtype but not that one!
the drops are at 50%
@@bung_chow i agree with the guy below ALLmasked. The magic 4 drops about 50%. And in labbing like crazy since T5dr its also been around that %. Man if you can 100% magic 4 launchers w/Lei I salute you sr!!!
@@Eth3realwarrior i can't 100 percent any combo but i dont see any justification for it to be buffed when there are many other problems with lei that should be adjusted first.
The combo is supposed to be difficult and is more rewarding due to that fact, hitbox issues are not rewarding for anyone and should be fixed before anything trivial like combo optimisation.
Removing the execution barrier on magic 4 combos devalues the skill it takes to use the character and the mileage you get out of him. Maybe they should make the window slightly bigger to hit f n 2 after CH 4 but only because most people have to play on 4 bar connection. I really believe that offline the drop rate on this combo shouldn't be higher than most other advanced combos.