Should beginners learn Python or JavaScript? | Brendan Eich and Lex Fridman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.พ. 2021
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Brendan Eich: JavaScri...
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Brendan Eich is the creator of JavaScript and co-founder of Mozilla and Brave.
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He answered the question like the people asking are already programmers.
lol ikr
Cause he's trying to make a case to other programmers as to what to suggest. I like the attitude of some communities that "which language first or best" is a wasteful question and gets no direct answer cause there isn't.
If you want to join the programming table of discussion, start programming using whatever you fancy or think of first. Stick with it for some months and bounce to another just to get a feel for the differences. The sooner you start a computer science course (formal or informal) the sooner you'll understand what they're talking about.
No I am beginner
Yea he made me mad, talk stupider please
exactly
I clicked for an answer to the question, and ended up looking like my cat does when I explain my day to it ...
If you want the most academic progression I recommend getting the basics of a very simple assembly language. Just spend a week goofing with it, loading and storing data and doing basic loops. Don't get crazy, you just want to see what the other languages are doing for you behind the curtain.
That will give you a very important foundation in life for all other programming languages.
After that (or if you decide not to do assembly) I think Python is the best for the simple reason that it is readable and very friendly. It's a great language because it makes learning it so simple. It's also very useful nowadays so it's immediately applicable. While doing Python, try to do some object oriented aspects of it. Just do some Googling about object oriented programming. You can program in that style or not. There are arguments for both. Knowing object oriented programming is necessary to further your career, however.
Next, we need to get rid of some of the bad habits that Python gave us. Python lets us get a bit sloppy but get things done too! We also need to get more performance because sometimes Python can be slow right out of the box without fancy things. So choose either C++, C#, or Java. If you skipped learning object oriented coding in Python you will now do it with one of these languages. C# and Java friendlier. C++ is pissed off and bites if pet. All three of these languages are more "big boy" languages. Faster, more powerful, harder to debug, etc. They make up much of the existing code running this planet.
Here is my tip though: When studying each, do a project that interests you. Make a tic-tac-toe game, a sudoku solver, a program which harasses some celebrity on Twitter. Whatever. It'll take weeks or months, but the journey will teach you a lot. Much better than dry tutorials.
😅
Little Kid: Mr. Brendan they taught us how to print Hello World at school today!
Brendan Eich: Well it depends, kid. Did you run the code in a REPL or did you compile and execute it? It's really important to know. Did you take a look at the bytecode? It must be really easy to read if you were able to print Hello World being just a 5 year old. I mean, it's just a string at the end of the day, i.e. a bunch of characters in an array. How different languages handle strings is really interesting. Take a look at the String.java file and Haskell's [Char] and String when declared in the Hindley-Milner style type declaration.
Little Kid: Down with this wretched industrial-technological system!
He's like the _Bearded Guy_ from Joe Rogan & Bob Lazar interview
🤣
I started with HTML and JavaScript. They confused me more than many things lol. Python is the language that I was able to stick with and push through the painful learning curve. (At least for me). But, I would recommend Python. I would also recommend the book “Learn Python the Hard Way”. That book runs you through literally everything by the brute force method. I compare this book’s teaching method to writing your alphabet over and over on the chalkboard to remember your ABCs. It definitely pushed me in the right direction to keep learning.
I'm getting the book right now. But what would be "the easy way"?
Glad to read this. Just got the book 👍🏻🤞🏻
@@davidrlifts Excellent question. I'm not sure I have the experience to answer that. Best of luck.
@@RR-et6zp Since then I started FCCs course on JS. I halfway through the ES6 section. This is the first thing I've started learning regarding code.
Any advice at all? What would you say to learn next afterwards besides html/css. Python? Something else?
I put hours of research in, but your words can help direct my path.
@@RR-et6zp From the time I've already put in, one thing I picked up is what you said, in this field it is required that you continue to learn. By saying "I put hours of research in..." I meant perpetually.
What I meant by it is regardless if you answer me or not I will find a way. But you did answer. I will be able to take note and reflect on your words moving forward. That is very helpful. Thank you, really.
I'm 43 and I just signed up for Python online classes.
Good luck. Remember to have fun - nothing happens in a day. : )
All the best!!
39 and just started learning
@@cbundercover3458 Keep going.
@@transitpix im on it brother 👊
For really learning how to code, I'd say Python first for an gentle introduction to programming fundamentals (linear execution, loops, conditionals, functions, variables, scope, etc.), and a very powerful and well documented standard library of data structures. JavaScript is very useful but it has some incredibly weird behavior (some of which was touched on), and its asynchronous/event driven paradigm can be much trickier for beginners to understand when just starting out. Though it does depend on what your goal is. If you want to be a web dev, then learning JS inside and out is more beneficial.
Thanks Ive been on python recently thinking it was the best for app development
@Amos J I'm learning python for becoming a front-end web developer. So, am I doing the right thing?
Python is the first programming language I've touched, and I'm enjoying the journey. As I can't find an answer to whether I should stick to python, which I want to, or move to HTML then Javascript and CSS for the web dev front end. What is your take on this?
@@tayyabullah9260 for front-end you'll definitely need to know HTML/CSS and most likely some JavaScript unless you're exclusively using a Python framework like Django or Flask.
@@jonathanpritchard6464 So, does this mean, I can skip JavaScript if I completely learn to use Flask? As I'm going to start learning Flask around the next month. HTML/CSS, I've heard crazy stories, specifically, about CSS, but as I've just started coding a month ago, I don't know anything except basic python.
So, if you can answer these q's as well, I'll be grateful:
1) If I learn Flask in and out, can I skip JavaScript, and will that help me code in the Front end or back end? Cover job opportunities for both languages in your answer as well if you're acquainted with this topic.
2) How hard is it to learn HTML/CSS?
3) Do I need to get my hands dirty with PHP as well?
@@tayyabullah9260 If you're set on frontend you should learn JS, and a framework or two built on top of it, as that's what most jobs will have you doing. HTML is just a markup language for structuring web documents, you don't generally write it by hand much, but you should know how the different tags work. CSS is a bit more complicated (I'm not all that familiar with the advance bits myself) but the basics are easy to grasp. PHP is pretty old at this point, the only time I hear about it is around legacy systems.
For anyone seriously wondering: python. Learning another programming language once you understand the fundamentals, is really easy. I learned c++ in a weekend (surface level, up enough to write algos) but I failed high school programming because they taught Java. I got discouraged after spending hours debugging what ended up being a missing semicolon. Start with python, add others as you want/ need. Also the greatest help for me was understanding how programs written end up actually doing things. How files go from being types to doing things on a computer. For that search for Mozilla Developer Network and I started with web development but you can really go anywhere. Lastly, keep at it. We all get stuck, google is your friend, and build kick ass stuff!
No.. It should be JavaScript! 😒😠😡
Agreed. There are those who say you have to start with a lower level language like C to learn the fundamentals. I think this is bad advice. You want something where you can get into programming and do cool things with relative ease. Once you get Python down, moving to C/C++ is a lot easier. There are plenty of new concepts (like pointers and memory management), but you have a lot of other concepts already covered. Plus, you're motivated because you already know what kind of cool things you can do. Python is still my tool of choice but it didn't satisfy me with the level of performance and control I wanted, so I really loved peeling back the layers and getting into C.
they thought me C++ in highschool.. that's even 10000000000 times worse than Java as a first language.
This made me smile. Thank you for the advice! I’ll keep at it!
You spent so much time debugging because of a missing semi colon? Are you using notepad to code or what? Lol. Pretty much all IDEs tell you where the syntax error is. Idk what you were doing there.
Came here to figure out which language to learn and ended up with a PhD in Matrix Programming
I may be a little biased as a JavaScript educator, but I'd suggest JavaScript almost every time!
It's the language to learn for frontend web development, can also be used for backend development and other server-side stuff. It's also the most popular programming language so has great community support.
The only reason I'd recommend Python first is if someone wants to do statistics/machine learning.
You're not just a little biased. You're completely biased.
I feel like modern JavaScript can be considered a great language, but you have to understand that it came a long way and even then it's evolving in a rather quick fashion year by year. PHP had similar toothing issues, but nowadays it is a decent experience to use PHP as well. The issue is that arguably these languages came a long way, however in the process they became quite bloated. IMO this makes it less ideal for a beginner. I feel like Guido put way more thought into designing Python, it was not something that was just afterthought to sprinkle some interactivity to the webpages.
I started with JavaScript and the instant satisfaction was the best part . I'm starting to learn Python and I absolutely love it. But I still think I made the right choice starting with JS and web-development.
yes.
You can do webdevelpment with python as well.
@@MrAshu-mx4dh yes, i know but for a starting language the ability to just be able to open a web browsers console and be able to start writing code immediately makes it way more accesible.
@@MrAshu-mx4dh
Web Development using python is a lot more messy for beginners.
took me 20 years to learn how to code. I tried c, c++, java, etc... but was hard to grasp the concept. python was the easiest language to learn. since I learned python I can go to other languages.
btw I've been in tech since 2010 and I work as a backend eng for big tech company.
Thank you!!
This is only true if you have an analytical, linear mind. Otherwise, java script is better for beginners.
Im 1 year into learning mostly JS and the little Python i have done has been great, i will definitely get deeper into Python when i get the chance
Isnt bitcoin made in python?
@@RubbinRobbin No, it was made in C++, but you can do a lot of python programs to work with cryptocurrency.
It doesn't matter. It REALLY DOES NOT MATTER. Learn anything. The only thing that would be helpful is if you had some online community you can turn to for help, so a more popular language would be helpful in that regard. But that's essentially it. Pick something and just DO THINGS. Once you learn it well, the second language will take you a fifth of the time, and a third a tenth of the time. Then you'll be able to pick up a language and do pretty complicated things with it within a weekend.
import Interview
from Interview import HowToNotAnswerTheQuestion
Should be top comment
@@scotthackney4747 Ha! Thanks. I guess there are not too many Python coders out there...
The first line is redundant.
@@fardinahsan2069 Yeah, I did that for looks only... sorry if it made you cringe.
I don’t know his answer
rust or go?
@@neiltropolis python. he said python.
It's a flawed question. It's like asking "What sport should I start with?". Well, it depends on what your goal is and what you think is fun. Do you want to make webpages or programs with AI? Or maybe games? Even if your goal is to become a complete athlete/programmer you should have a preference for what you think sounds like fun. (I'm assuming that someone that is sure they want to become a programmer and wants to get a good foundation by learning Java or C wouldn't ask this question but instead already applied to get into CS somewhere.)
@@mplovecraft This is the best answer. What do you want to build?, go from there.
Great album
I just found out that I don't want to be a programmer.
LOL
Lol
I'm a web developer now, and I do a bit of "programming" in that regard.
And I've done a bit of straight forward programming just as a hobby yrs back, and I came to the same conclusion, lol.
I don't want to be a Programmer!
Why don't you want to? Would be interesting to know why?
@@davidbalme2883 Because you become a scribe. You live and breath it. Oh and you probably wont get laid a lot either. But it is fun. Lol
😅 best thing about beeing a beginner: You have soo much to learn you will benefit from every language and you basically cant waste any time at all. Programming is a lot about math and patterns in different style. Once you have 2-3 languages in your belt it's not too hard doing something in a 5th or 6th.
Software engineer here. For new comers, it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to create web stuff and have some interest in design or just creating visual applications then you should learn JavaScript, if your focus is leaning more towards data manipulation, graphing, AI or image recognition and that sort of logic then go with python. Both are valid but as a subnote I'll add that starting with either one of those is a bad idea and you should start by learning C or Java. They're both harder to learn but that's the point. They'll give you the NEEDED foundation to be a legit developer, without the core computer science background you'll stay a code monkey. You need to understand how it all fits together and learn about algorithms, data structures, maths and statistics. That's why I think school is a good foundation for all of this, if your objective is to get a job as quickly as possible in the field, learn PHP, Javascript and SQL. But be aware that you're not going to be able to evolve as much compared to someone who has all that CS package with them.
A question: Do mathematics like derivatives, integrals, diff eqns and vectors have a application in software engineering or does it have applications in computer engineering (more on hardware).
P.S:Currently 1st student of computer engineering
@@aadityarajbaidya5344 both (math is everywhere)
Math is a modeling language
If you're just going to do websites/web services/database operations, then it doesn't get much more advanced than addition
In a lot of my play coding (physics/graphics/attempts at machine learning), vector math has been very important
I think where a good grasp of math is needed is in recognizing the shape of things. Knowing about those concepts
Nah, man. Python and brainfuck. Anyone who can master both will not have trouble with simple things like learning about maths and databases.
I don't know anything about coding but most ppl learning a new subject give up if it's too hard and frustrating.
So it's usually better to start easy and get to the more difficult stuff later when you feel confident.
You might end up feeling stupid starting with something difficult and let go of the whole thing altogether 😬
(This is just what works better for the majority but there definitely are those of us who work much better under intense challenges)
What can u do to get the task done faster if not automated altogether. The answer is research through a test driven development approach not favoring any particular language.
I'm learning to code and I think I understood 30% of the words out of Brendan's mouth... kind of intimidating
Dude made JavaScript in 10 days back in the mid 90's. Dont beat yourself up. You are on your way!
@@neiltropolis no wonder the language was bad for so long
@@MrEmbrance Bad? Straight up sketchy
Right
I can code Hello World! And that’s about it 😐
welldone!
Progress to printing it multiple times using loops.
Vary the contents for each repetition.
Request user input before starting your loop logic (require any key press first)
Ask the user how many times to print it and do so
Print hello odd and hello even alternating (using an if else condition inside for loop)
Just some examples on how to further your understanding of programming. That covers if, else and for keywords.
There are switch cases (similar to if else), while and do while loops (similar to for loops) and of course arithmetic! ( + - * / ).
From then on I'd suggest thinking a bit about your dev environment (setup a decent Integrated Development Environment) and start looking for some simple project ideas for your language of choice as a beginner.
Object oriented programming is something you should introduce yourself to eventually and functional programming is worth taking a look at (no need to spend longer than a week researching AND CODING these for the time being) to avoid burnout.
Pick a simple project and get started on it. Some notes worth mentioning: web especially and to a lesser extent app development have a lot of moving parts and might be best delayed a bit while you're learning programming basics.
Similarly, Assembly and CPP might be too dull and daunting for a beginner. Java or C# are worth getting into since they'll help you remove the "training wheels" that dynamic languages like python and js provide you with and expose you to primitives and stricter scope definitions. (this is not to say that Progress to printing it multiple times using loops.
Vary the contents for each repetition.
Request user input before starting your loop logic (require any key press first)
Ask the user how many times to print it and do so
Print hello odd and hello even alternating (using an if else condition inside for loop)
Just some examples on how to further your understanding of programming. That covers if, else and for keywords.
There are switch cases (similar to if else), while and do while loops (similar to for loops) and of course arithmetic! ( + - * / ).
From then on I'd suggest thinking a bit about your dev environment (setup a decent Integrated Development Environment) and start looking for some simple project ideas for your language of choice as a beginner.
Object oriented programming is something you should introduce yourself to eventually and functional programming is worth taking a look at (no need to spend longer than a week researching AND CODING these for the time being) to avoid burnout.
Pick a simple project and get started on it. Some notes worth mentioning: web especially and to a lesser extent app development have a lot of moving parts and might be best delayed a bit while you're learning programming basics.
Similarly, Assembly and CPP might be too dull and daunting for a beginner. Java or C# are worth getting into since they'll help you remove the "training wheels" that dynamic languages like python and js provide you with and expose you to primitives and stricter scope definitions. This is not to say that dynamics are for beginners only, but they do hide a lot of the actions happening underneath and give rise to odd behavior that beginners get confused by.
Above all else - join a community that can help you grow and keep you motivated!
If you're looking to build restful APIs then I would look at fastAPI framework.
This guy does a terrible job answering the question. He just rambles about concepts and stuff that beginners have no clue about. The sort of answer that actually demotivate people to go into programming.
He is not here motivate people, but analysing and telling the truth !
The interviewer and audience are not beginners, lex just wanted his opinion but it’s clear that this answer is directed at people who know what he’s talking about
Go flip some burgers
Yes, completely screams "run!!"
If you are demotivated with only one interview, better to leave coding and programming as they are based on finding solutions to problems. If you are vulnerable to unwanted situations and crises, coding and programming are not for you.
Depends on your end goal. Just wanna learn the easiest language? Python. JS needs to be learned with HTML and CSS. Java has an argument for being the most versatile language, so there's that.
4:30 "anything in C++ takes 10 years to write, so javascript/python is better to learn" - I'd really love to see you have a conversation with someone like Linus Torvalds or Jonathan Blow. ;)
Yes those statements are completely misleading. Of course it’s fast to learn python or JavaScript with all those fancy libraries, but libraries are not coming from thin air. People actually are spending years working on fundamental layer like python implementation or nodejs runtime. Give some respect.
@@maxcl3474 Intresting answer, could you elaborate it some more? Maybe an example?
@@maxcl3474 i agree. Programming in a deep levels without abstraction takes a huge amount of mathematical logic and a great depth of Architectures. Learning python or javascript only will make shallow developers, who have very little depth of how computers actually work.
@@k0dede Abstraction of layers of understanding through libraries or fancy new programming nuances will degrade quality of engineers graduating in the future.
but he is right you have to write so much more code in C++ compared to any other language
Thanks for the input Lex as a professional procrastinator I'll choose c++ that way it will take me 20 years to do something or probably never get something done
Learn both back and forth at the same time. And then once you have the basics for each down, focus on one for a little while to accomplish a little bit and then switch back. Like you would use python for automation and for engineering things in a met fab or additive manufacturing. Javascript for images and what not on the web. I've been trying to work on both. The last two days. I had stopped working on them, because they were more confusing than html and css.
I started with C, then C++, then assembly x86, then Java, then Swift, then assembly ARMv7, then Python. I've messed around with Javascript. I think python might be best for beginners (But it depends on what you want to do).
bro thats really nice , but some beginners are like me 31 and have not so much time.
@@study6526 I'm 32 lol. Started programming in 2016. Takes time.
I started with the web stack html js css and hated it and never thought I would be into programming. Python changed that for me
A simple answer to Which programming language you should learn is like which language you should learn to speak. Depends on where you’re going.
I agree Python is best if you just “want to learn programming”. But it is currently not all that useful except for getting entry level data science butts in seats to crunch numbers.
(I know I know there’s a million exceptions, but that’s pretty much it)
For full stack, front end, server side, there are options that are nearly as easy to learn. Rust, Typescript, Go, Scala. Not a lot more difficult.
But you will most likely need to learn JS at some point, and haters are absolutely correct in that it’s VERY hard to learn. Maybe even more so when you already know an easier lang.
So basically nut up and learn it because the hard concepts will make everything else you learn easy.
The problem with JavaScript as a first language is precisely because it is used for many different things.
What's nice about Python is it is simple in terms of what fields it is most used in, and I think it's also a great complementary language for any project you end up working on, even a JS project. I use python a lot in every project I do for scripts.
I also agree generally that in JS you can make mistakes more easily than in Python.
I'm currently struggling with this, and I mean struggling. I've been researching this for about 3 weeks now. I've bought 3 books and I'm trying to make a decision between diving into HTML (a prerequisitive for JavaScript) and Python. What I really want to do eventually is be involved with games, so to the extent that designing or developing games excludes one of those languages then I guess I should choose the one that could possibly be involved.
try JavaScript
@@Postmodern368 thanks, I decided on JavaScript three months ago. I haven’t made much progress but that’s what I’m doing
Try sololearn introductions
Ask yourself what you would want to build, small to medium project. Then google what language would work for that.
Start with backend development, python is a great and friendly language. You could get a lot of tutorials and even get a job.
Whenever you're comfy with that move to JS, learning frontend development with your existing development skills by that time would be sufficient for the transition. If you do it the other way around and start by doing FrontEnd development first as an easy way of exercising with JS the transition to backend is going to be a bit more painful.
Once you have Python down and JS for FE down... move to Node for Backend development w/ JS.
Just curious but is there a benefit to learning backend if you only want to be a frontend web developer?
Thanks Ive been on python recently thinking it was the best for app development
Qt QML to enhance both JS/Python with fast Ui for Desktop/Embedded and have C++/Go/Rust/WebAssembly options on top. JS for Electron - Nice. Python for Blender - Nice.
I'm a "tech savvy" accountant and have been having such a hard time with Python. It has to be the hardest thing I have ever done. I feel like I've got the attention of the most beautiful woman in the world but she only speaks Italian and I only speak English and so we just sit there looking at each other awkwardly.
Lex bro didnt know you made videos on this topic, more programming stuff please
We had to use Microsoft's Visual Studio at college. I have no idea what that is or what language it uses. Can someone explain. I know it's an IDE, but what language is it using?
I'm confused about javascript full stack and fullstack Python which is the best for getting a job.
Python's syntax is just so much more intuitive, I think it's a great language to start learning programming with
I agree. I still believe C is the best language to start with. After learning to program with C all other programming languages are a breeze to learn. Sure memory management in C sucks but it teaches you so much
@@Bielocke I think that for most people who are asking the question "What should I start with?", learning C is a big hump to get over. Especially if you are planning on learning it on your own from tutorials. When I was 13 I got a book about how to program 80386 ASM, and I actually learned a lot about logic operators, how memory works in a computer and I did write some small programs but in the end it was too tough for me at the time and I put programming aside until I was 17. Something easier might have had me continue with programming. (Coincidentally, I think the easiest I could have picked up at the time probably would have been C, but I'm thinking that the people asking this question today are looking for a hobby or to see if maybe they like it enough to try to make career out of it)
@@mplovecraft what is 80386 ASM?
Is it some kind of microprocessor?
@@aadityarajbaidya5344 Yes, 80386 (or just 386) is/was a popular CPU in the x86 family. Assembly/asm is a low level language.
Agreed I learned JS then tried out some Python and it was beautiful by comparison
I’m 28 and I’m about to start learning programming, let’s see how it goes
Lucky you, I'm 33 and wish I could go back in time in order to learn these things sooner
@@wallacesousuke1433 You still can sign up for an online course
I'm 2 months into learning JavaScript and it's the first time it's starting to make sense. I'm sure I'll go back to being completely lost tomorrow. But we'll keep going because learning is something I don't mind doing.
It all depends on whether you want to be an actual software developer. If yes, I believe you must start with C/C++, which forgives nothing and forces you to adopt the mindset taking care of types, memory allocation and complexity. It's ok if you actually end up using JSP/Python/PHP/etc in real life, and never using C/C++. What matters is the mindset. When I started with python, I had a very nasty bug in one of my programs, because I did not quite understand that I was (by default) copying a reference to an object, as opposed to the object itself. I have no clue how a person that does not have prior knowledge about the difference between passing-by-reference vs value could efficiently find such bugs. Further, I have no clue how I would help somebody understand the difference between an object, a reference and a pointer if they only know python.
On the other hand, if you don't aim to be a software engineer, but instead just aim to use a programming language to solve some common problems in the field (e.g. biology or medicine) by stitching together a few libraries, then it is completely ok to only learn the exact language that is commonly used in that field (e.g. R, Matlab, Mathematica, etc). It's not really transferable knowledge, but if you don't aim to transfer anything anywhere its totally fine
Somewhat agree, but id say C++ AND python.
Use python to learn how algorithms and general coding concepts work and then once youve implemented something in python, recreate it in c++ so you can focus on learning how c++ is different instead of struggling to learn c++ quirkd and coding concepts in parallel
@@BlastinRope I only partially agree. Implementing something that does the job is easy and intuitive in python. However, implementing EFFICIENT algorithms in python is very counter-intuitive. For example, in C++ a sufficiently efficient way to find the sum of an array is to use a for-loop (ignoring SIMD). In python one sooner or later discovers the horrible truth that numpy.sum() is orders of magnitude faster than for-loop, and that for any more or less sophisticated task you have to re-design your algorithm to have as few for-loops as possible, replacing them all with special functions that you need to learn. Honestly, people somehow designed and learned outstanding algorithms years ago using FORTRAN and ALGOL and the likes. I don't think that newer languages like python have gotten any more clear or simple than their older cousins when it comes to pure algorithms like quicksort. What we have really gained in the recent years are two things: 1) the ease of installing/using libraries made by other people (just pip install and you can call function. C++ is a nightmare in installing anything except the most popular libraries). 2) The ability to write much less code by abstracting over variable types. While this is an insane advantage for an expert, it is also dangerous: the more freedom you have in coding, the less the machine can help you when you make a mistake. I would argue that it is a good idea to force all beginners to define very precisely each variable and function parameter, just to make sure they completely understand what they are doing
@@maxcl3474 Keep going. It's definitely good for you. Come back and re-read what I have written once you get to the level of writing some data analysis code using a few hundred lines.
@@ArgumentumAdHominem bro, what about JS or PHP..? Is Php and JS a good start for beginners?
@@neilgyverabangan6989 As I wrote, it depends on your aim. What for are you learning programming? If your goal is to code using JS and PHP, then yes, why not (although PHP will likely die out at some point). If your goal is to learn programming in general, I will strongly advise against it. These languages allow you to do very evil things. It takes effort and experience to know what exactly the type of each variable is in these languages. I would recommend trying something stricter first which helps with the mindset of doing things very formally (like C++), and only then start using "looser" languages, which give you more freedom, but require more from you to use that freedom correctly.
My first language was Objective C. I then learned the general languages for web development, then a lot of php. I learned JavaScript, C, C++, and then learned to hate Java, and finally I learned python and fell in love with it. Currently messing around with Lisp, but honestly wish I could have started with python
may I ask what do you use python for?
@@gc8972b It's used in programming
Any advice on what language is preferred for calculations involving numerical methods for stuff like computational fluid dynamics or finite element analysis ?
R?
Julia, Matlab, R, python numpy c
C++
Yeahhhh another one of those above and beyond guys. We’ll get there one day!
Learning machine learning is hard , but finding the datasets or creating these datasets is a hard and painful process.
Did he answer the question? lol
Personally, I strongly recommend learning Python as the 1st language. It allows making mistakes which teaches a valuable lesson to write good code! IMO, JavaScript as the FIRST language to learn is good for those who lack grit and need instantaneous gratifications to keep going.
Eventually, it is a MUST to learn multiple languages. A bare minimum would be to have an interpreted language, managed language and a compiled language.
For the vast majority of people Python is probably not the best approach and neither is Javascript. I am purely in the HTDP camp for the vast majority of normal people. Special people can jump into Java or LISP and still come out on top.
Last month, I had a conversation with this man and he actually explains better typing than speaking 😂
for beginers: use python to understand how programing works because python takes all the annoying syntax out of the equation (it lets you focus on programming instead of semicolons and capital letters). but once you understand basic principles of programing, start learning javascript as your main . learn every new concept on python first and then apply it into projects in js . python is a good learning tool but javascript will allow you to do bigger projects that look good etc. both python and js have to be learnt imo but the order you learn them 9in is important.
What about c#?
im 47 years old can i start learning programming now or is it too late ?
name any two programming language which is easy to work with
I started with c++ and assembly , I remember asking my high school teacher to show me how to count in hexadecimal she refused because she said it wasn’t in the schools program , that’s how useful school is when you want to learn something , but JavaScript and Python never took them seriously specially JavaScript for me is like a toy , but I have to admit that JavaScript changed in the last 12 years , both are very easy to learn so I’d say do both
I just became half way decent at R... should I ditch it?
I'm a QA Engineer focusing on test automation, and recommend Python and Javascript. I did start off on C++ at university and can confirm that it will take 10+ years to create an application that actually does something tangible.
You're missing the point. Not everybody is a "QA Engineer" there is a starting point in anything we do. Learning the basics is fundamental. Building feature rich apps straight from the start is pointless if you dont understand what the code is doing. Writing code is easy, reading it is tough
@@12345charliebrown so it's still python then lol?
@@TheStruders
I think for many beginners Dr Racket and the HDTP programs would be the best approach.
"with C++ it takes 5 to 10 years to write code that does something" can anyone tell me where this is coming from? I do not know how to code at all
I believe you need to have a goal. If you want to get into web development learn JavaScript. If you want to get into Data Science / Machine Learning Learn Python. If you want to build Desktop Applications learn Java. If you want to build your own Kernal then learn C and Assembly, if you want to learn Robotics learn C++/python. Want to Learn games learn C#. Want to learn WordPress Development learn PHP. If you just want to learn to program in general, I would recommend Python as you can do multiple things such as (Machine Learning, Web Scraping, Data Science, Backend Development, Automation, etc...) and it is pretty easy to learn (in my opinion).
I started off with JavaScript as I wanted to get into Web Development.
Videos like these inspire me to quit learning how to program
Why not LISP?
Am I wrong to feel like rust is like C++ with an American entitled perspective of fix my mistakes ? Idk still learning in this field...
4:30 Lex is right. I studied C in high school. I hated it.
I learned C when I was 10 and got on with it just fine. I've always found Python and Javascript nightmarish and would never recommend them, even to beginners.
@@zachhayes9512 well everything is written in C.
@@zachhayes9512 If C didnt exist nothing on computers would exist.
How many geniuses does it take to iron the curtains?
Doesn’t matter between the two. C should be first. Once you get it, nothing is invincible
While this is true when the goal is to understand software deeply, for people who just wanna teach themselves enough to be able to land a job, you wouldn't recommend starting with C, would you? Very few teams in the wider industry are writing C/C++, but every company is writing some JavaScript.
@@_____case actually, starting with C will land you a job faster. My reasoning is, C will be the toughest experience you will ever get. 6 months of C is more powerful than 3 years of JavaScript. After the first 3 months, You will learn Javascript in less than 3 Months with easy. And your retainability of why things are the way they are will be superior!! Still standing by my comment. Learn C. Learning it will teach you every single language on the planet without knowing that you are learning them.
@@techedzee
I don't think everyone is quite that efficient. Most people I know who learned how to code on their own found jobs after 1-2 years of working with Python or JS. Plus, would you trust a C developer with 6 months of experience to write memory safe code?
@@_____case you misunderstood what am saying. Am saying, starting with c will strengthen your ability to code in any code base. So, if you will take 1-2 years of coding in js or python, the first 6 months of that should be C. Then the rest either python or JavaScript. You will be a way better and faster at picking up stuff than someone who started with js or py
@@techedzee Fair enough. I don't disagree with that.
I love Brendan Eich's modesty here! That's the character of genius!
By the way, is one of the most well-dressed programmer that I ever seen. Is he still a programmer? :-)
Learn first a strongly typed object oriented language. The move on. If you need to learn either of these, Python 10 times out of ten. Finally, as a software professional, learning one more language is a piece of cake as long as you didn’t start with JavaScript or other such exceptionally messy yet powerful language!
It's amazing how he managed to mention 362 different programming languages in 6 minutes, without saying anything coherent and useful for the intended audience of that question!
The intended audience for the question is experienced programmers who are teaching or mentoring noobs. I recommend python over javascript as it is easier to understand -- that goes for noobs as well as pros. That being said, if you are self-motivated and slightly autistic, you can start with any language.
Cool, Learned using Programming Hero
JavaScript is the most used language aka language for all things Website based, also suggest to know HTML and CSS (Front or Full Stack) however Python is the most popular because it’s easy and has application for Big Data (Backend and Machine Learning). Both are good to learn, depend on your goal, but definitely suggest not to learn C++ for beginners * Studies CS and have a degree in Web Design and current software recruiter for a tech company *
Is it really a problem that Javascript sometimes lets itself run though there's something wrong,..? You learn as you go and you will never learn it all anyway. Nowadays it is more strict too. Love the fact that you can start this minute without too much hassle.
I'll answer for him. Start with python first. It's easy to learn and doesn't bog you down with syntax. You'll be able to focus on the major part of programming and that's problem solving. After you've mastered or become proficient in problem solving language won't matter. I'm a CS student and almost 40 years old. I spent my first year working with python. I'm in my second year and now I'm learning Java, javascript, PHP, MySQL and Ajax. Language is important but what's most important is how to break big problems into small problems.
@@maxcl3474 math is definitely helpful but not in the way you might think. It's helpful in the way of problem solving and applying rules in order. So, if you can get through college algebra and calculus you'd know more math than you'll ever need to be a good programmer. It also depends where you want to go with Computer Science. In the 2 years I've been studying Computer Science I've only used basic arithmetic. But having all the math background through linear algebra has helped me understand problem solving.
Learn C. At its core, it is basic and pure. There is no over engineered jargon built into it like say Java or C#. You can concentrate on the Basics and have simple console Programs running after a few lines of code. You are only one layer of abstration above what the Machine is reading. As a beginner you won't understand any of that as I didnt but over time as you move onto languages like Python and Javascript you'll have a much better appreciation of them and understand what your code is doing. I watched the George Hotz interview and he is exactly right in learning lower level languages gives you a better undertsanding and appreciation of the levels of abstraction happening just to say for example printing text to the screen.
Programming and math/physics goes hand in hand. Business programming is for the non-math people ( just use pre defined math scripts ). Game development uses more math. Finally, engineering does the most of customizing math scripts.
Dude I just started learning c++ recently because I am wicked curious. With a masters in accounting and 3.87 gpa. I can’t explain how confused I am. I love it. I will get it eventually but it could take up to a year. Programming is my mistress and accounting is my wife. Who knows where I’ll end up.
Starts at 4:00 Should beginners learn Python or JavaScript?
How old would y’all say is to late to start learning to code?
Probably like 70, because of the back pain.
Jokes aside, it's really never too late as you can grasp beginner level things within 2-3 weeks and up to intermediate level within 6-12 months. From there on, it's a constant quest for more knowledge and keeping up to date, but it's not something that will be obstructed by age, rather curiosity and willingness to proceed. Plus it's fun to create programs and solve problems.
It's purely a time consideration. Regardless of age, if you can direct a few thousand hours towards it in the next 12 months you will be able to code simple stuff comfortably and complex stuff with difficulty. I am 10 months in and nearly 3000 hours, and working full time at my first development job. No background in CS, didn't go to school for it or anything.
@Michael Kean the boot camp was probably about 1500 hours. But really though it wasn't required. Just follow the rabbit holes and research different languages and try to steer towards the most used ones like JavaScript or Python
infinity
Sooo... Does anyone know what the answer is? I sure as hell didn't understand a thing.
“25. Should be out of the house.”
Any way you could talk on multi-generational households Lex?
Where are you from that families still exist? Must not be the US
@@garrettjones1161 or the UK.
I wasn’t this confused before I watched this lol
It's a bad question. Languages are tools. Learn the ones you need for the specific job you intend to do.
What ever happened to basic? 😅 Turtle, remember that one. Prolog was very cool and easy to learn, when you could buy it, now you can barely find a copy. Forgot to mention assembler way back when. Would people even attempt to use Assembler now as a programming language?
He's the creator of Javascript. And I appreciate the fact that he loves APL.
The languages are not in any way comparable. The question boils down to what aspect of programming is going to give the best base starting off. In my opinion this comes from learning about different types and logical operations, which can be applied to object oriented programming. Languages like Python, Java etc will provide this, however it's not as simple as a Python vs JavaScript.
Most people do not want to be programmers they really want to be software engineers. Producing either phone apps, desktop apps, games, websites and so on.
@@bighands69 Software engineers are programmers. Web, game and app developing is programming. I don't get your point.
@@Pivot-Shorts
Programming is not software engineering and is about the process of written procedures.
A software engineer produces software such as the things Listed in my previous comment. They use a very narrow scope of programming and in many cases use prepared patterns that are already made and do not write programs.
Being a software engineer, network engineering or operations development roles does not make a person an actual programmer. Somebody that uses PLC to manage an air-conditioning system does not make them a programmer.
Beginner should learn Java or C or C++ as their first language. Just the basics
So what do you suggest for beginners?
“…well we were all tired of seeing those remote code execution vulnerabilities… and we we were thinking can we have a safety property through a type and effect system… not only does it get a theorem for free, that falls out for protection against data races…race condition avoidance…”
Thank you
I think Java is better to start. Because they get familiar with how to compile and then it’s somewhere in the middle where at the same time if you want to switch to many other languages like c,c++,c#,go, rust, JavaScript you are somewhat familiar with their syntax. If you start with Python/JS later on it will be harder for you to switch to other languages.
It's a strange title. I think this was more of a delineation of the historical significance of various languages, their strengths, and use cases for each.
The problem/challenge is for us average IQ/average memory folks is the following. To just be a mediocre programmer ( experienced apprentice ) you must invest time in said language. Let's say 6-12 months? If there is a glut of journeyman programmers in said language, then you need to invest even more time to be competitive. Just when you are getting closer to being experienced journeyman/master programmer , the marketplace has a new flavor of the month language that you have to apprentice during the evening/weekends & you pray the new language you are investing time in has more than 12 month cycle. Professional programmers are spending 35 hours programming during the week. They then spend minimum 15 hours a week studying the next " sexy" language. The programmer is having their kids raised by the significant others/nannies. That is the pattern I keep hearing about in this industry. Peace.
Programmers work 40-60 hours a week. You telling me they add another 15 hours to learn new stuff in their free time?
Python to get started, have fun and be productive quickly.
Julia for a better Python that can be as fast as C.
Clojure for it’s power, simplicity, expressiveness.
Rust if you need speed and type safety.
Elixir/Erlang to see how concurrent, robust software should be architected.
OCaml if you want disciplined modularity, pragmatism, and very interesting features.
Haskell if you want to see what a pure lazy laconic sage can teach you.
BTW, Haskell and OCaml had strong influence on Rust.
First a quick view on Assembly and C. Then Python. Harvard CS50 online (free). Better get really good at Python. Then it's easy to switch to something else since languages are so similar. Will save you a lot of time.
Otherwise you just start over learning the basics in many languages and that won't get you far in the real world.
I don’t think there is a wrong language to learn first. Because it’s highly unlikely that’s the only language you’ll ever learn.
The trick is to teach yourself to think in a structured logical manner.
Why ask between JavaScript and Python, it seems the two languages are for two different purposes.
Please add subtitles
Honeslty, unless u wanna be a web dev I think u should start with C++. There u learn what is programming really about.It's a complex language but the more complex it is the easier it's to learn another one.Many companies use C++ for speed.For example many telecommunication companies built 5G in C++. Game development nowadays is mostly done in C++,C# and Kotlin.The software and the widgets from your car media display are made in Qt. As a programmer u need to know how u can work with memory(pointers).I don 't say u should be an expert but to know the basics of C++.
I am a Python developer and I don't know or care about pointers
And u work just with py? So far I've worked with Java and C++.Java is boring,C++ is more fun for me.I leant Python in College,pretty great for ML but if u want a good job with this language it requires Phd or at least another programming language.
@@cristianhendre6260 oh ofcourse, I also use JavaScript and other web development technologies. I am not a fan of any particular programming language.
@@nowyouknow2249 I get it now.Well I'm more on algos and DS stuff.Plus in my city if u want to start as a web dev it requires xp and a lot to stuff to know,not to be super advanced but many technologies.I got an internship on C++ few years back and I continued on this path.If I wanted to work on machine learning anywhere they asked at least to be on a Phd program so...
@@cristianhendre6260 Pretty sure most backend devs don't have a phd.
Javascript is amazing these days.
the mobility of it has swung me over.
@@ItumelengS yeah I work with node and react day in and day out and having same language on client and server and amazing libraries out there is a game changer for development. Never enjoyed coding so much.
If I asked the ducks outside my house I would understood about the same from their answer...thank you for clearing this up 😶
I did some Java in college, tried Ruby / Rails for a bit and wondered if I should try js or python, for serious this time.
Despite js being useful for both front and back end web development, I started to feel like I was learning for pragmatism's sake once I started thinking about what stack I'd use for making a modern web app ( MERN ). That's when I realized I was picking a language based on popularity / pragmatism and that could be the wrong approach.
I like to think that I have good fundamentals but I didn't want to let assumptions and ego get in the way of really knowing my stuff. So in the end I picked Python and as for a framework I picked Flask, because I want to do things bit-by-bit as I want to understand things and not assume I do because I built something magically ( looking at you Rails ).
I'm too new to know whether I made the right decision but I am sure of ONE thing; I do NOT miss curly braces and semicolons, holy shit.
I've been very impressed with c#
I'm learning that rn, first language, absolute beginner and I'm having a blast
There is such a wide range of things you can do
I mocked something up in unity in two days, then it took a week to port to lua (cyberpunk mod)
@@PerfectlyNormalBeast what are the limits to what you can create with it? Atm I'm only playing with the console familiarising myself with things like variables, loops, arrays etc but eventually I plan on creating simple games, apps and even websites to profit from as revenue. Is that realistic with c#?
Yes, it sort of comes down to philosophy of use. Scripting languages (python, r, javascript, etc) are easy to hack something together. So they are great as high level fluff on top of proper systems
On the other extreme would be languages close to the metal. Difficult to do quick things, performance is top priority
I think of c# as in between. You can create complex things, get garbage collection, easy to build/compile/test (with visual studio). Now with .net core, you don't have to be so bought in to Microsoft only (though I've never tried on linux)
The learning curve pain of various types (different float vs int types) may be annoying when first starting out, but once you get it, you'll be better for it
Can i still learn to code at 40?
yes, just find something interesting to code for and work in small steps. Arduino, although C, enables learning to code (way of thinking) while doing fun little projects. Arduino also has very beginner-friendly resources available. Once you master that, you can learn other languages. It will be far less abstract that way.
You shouldn’t have any problems learning the basic syntax of any programming language within a few hours, it might take you a bit longer to understand some programming concepts, but the best way to learn is by trial and error and learning from your mistakes. To get proficient at programming language is like anything else, you need to put the hours in writing code, reading the documentation/blogs/stack overflow solutions etc… learn some design software design patterns, getting feedback on your coding from other more experienced coders etc…
I would suggest looking at Golang, python or typescript
Try kaggle it's a site to learn to code.
@Florida Man
Stop trolling lol
If you try javascript or python, get the book 'the easy way to learn python' (or javascript) chapter by chapter it gives you good exercises you can do on the web
I'm learning python atm. Omg this is so serendipitous
Brendan Eich mentioning Taleb's "Lindy" concept here is so satisfying
In spite of being really Object Oriented, Python was my gateway drug to functional languages, believe it or not; now I'm into ML languages, Lisp and Haskell.