The average person has no idea what a Molonist or Thomist is. They just want to be in the correct Church, receive the Eucharist and worship the Triune God.
Absolutely, with respect, let's just say, I am exactly stupid with regards to Catholic theology, but I have never heard of Molonism in my life (neither has spellcheck.) If I am ready to toon out. How do you expect the average Catholic to have a clue Thomism versus Molinism.
There are a few works that introduce them, Fr. Lagrange's Predestination, Fr. Pohle on Grace, Catholic Encyclopedia articles, etc., but none that are particularly extensive and often get certain facts wrong.
Even if he is a Molinist, which he may not actually be, my understanding is that it's a theoretically permitted position nuanced correctly, it's just that Molinism is basically dead.
Bro I finally caught this one just as it came out! Where can I find and read Suarez and some of the other guys you mentioned in this video? I can read scholastics in Latin so it’s okay if they’re not translated.
This is actually a fantastic question and its funny because in truth its not clear. It seems to contradict itself. But thomism is 100% viable and it might even be probable depending on how you read the catechism. Also worth noting that the catechism cites Augustine on grace and the catechism itself was very influenced by Dominicans.
None of them. On these questions, the Catechism gives us what has been taught by the Church, which are the broad strokes, but the specific theological propositions are debated among the theological schools.
“Everyone with a brain has a high regard for St Thomas”… But but Dyer and Orthodox Kyle? I learned all wrongs in the history of humanity are attributable either directly or indirectly to Thomism according to them…
This video would have been much better if it had been more pedagogical. One would have to be an expert already to follow it. The video should have started with what middle knowledge is and how it was seen by some as reconciling free will and God's foreknowledge. Once viewers have that under their belt, the video could go into questions about grace, with (at an early stage) an explanation of the terms efficacious and sufficient grace. Also at some early stage, the terms congruism and Molinism should have been defined. One gets the sense that this video is addressed only to the small group of people who make claims about Molinism, not to the vastly larger group of people who may want to learn more about it. The video's point is not to enlighten and educate the latter group, but rather to baffle and confuse the former group and thus make them realize they don't know what they are talking about and thereby shut them up. There is far too much of this kind of scoring of points and showing off on TH-cam, and not enough of trying to teach and clarify. It is easy to show off, but much harder to explain things well I have seen some videos by Mr. Wagner where he does an excellent job of explaining things; so it is clear he can do it if he wants.
Look. I genuinely wanted to learn something about Molinism, but those 15 minutes ended up being a waste. If I knew enough about the subject to make a video about it, I would not have watched yours. The reason I commented is to be constructive. No other reason. You are obviously a very intelligent and knowledgeable person who loves the Church. But I think you behave flippantly sometimes in a way that harms the quality of some of your videos, which I think is a shame precisely BECAUSE you are so talented.. Your answer to me here shows the same kind of flippancy. What is the point of the flippancy, the snark, etc.? OK. I am 70 years old, and so maybe am just of the wrong generation to be talking about this medium and how to behave on it. Do your thing. You have a big following, so must be doing something right. @@MilitantThomist
Dude, if you were to explain 11:30 in the other videos exactly like that (and slower) everything would have made more sense. Thomists: Sufficient Grace != Efficacious Grace (but virtually contained in S.G) Ant. Neg. Rep. People don't get E.G only S.F -> then they sin and God does Consequent Pos. Rep on account of their sin Molinist: S.G = E.F therefore ANR is impossible since it denies the universal will to save Is this correct?
At first it was, but then it became a school position, in the same way Thomism was eclectic at first, but then became a school position in the 14th century.
Was Luis de Molina a Molinist? I've gotten hesitant about assuming this, since I discovered that there's some difference of opinion as to whether Nestorius died a Nestorian, or whether Origen was meaningfully an Origenist. And I presume there are other examples.
The average person has no idea what a Molonist or Thomist is. They just want to be in the correct Church, receive the Eucharist and worship the Triune God.
So true
based
Facts. But it's fun to research.
Absolutely, with respect, let's just say, I am exactly stupid with regards to Catholic theology, but I have never heard of Molonism in my life (neither has spellcheck.) If I am ready to toon out. How do you expect the average Catholic to have a clue Thomism versus Molinism.
True Molinism has never been tried
hahahaha
"it will work this time !"
I meet people all the time going “I’m a Molinist…” and then they just deny the council of Trent
I will eventually answer comments
I don't care how many short haired grandmas are wearing wooden Taos, I'm still a proud Franciscan. Bl Scotus pray for us.
Where’s bald Wagner? We won’t forget that super chat
SO TRUE
What's this about bald Wagner?
@@kevinrhatigan5656 He said that he would get a buzz cut if I super chatted $15 and I did it but he hasn’t kept his promise.
Next conspiracy “molinists aren’t real”
Is there an introductory work that explains all these views that you would recommend?
There are a few works that introduce them, Fr. Lagrange's Predestination, Fr. Pohle on Grace, Catholic Encyclopedia articles, etc., but none that are particularly extensive and often get certain facts wrong.
Molina would rather cower before the throne of saint thomas than even collaborate with WLC
Michael Jones (InspiringPhilosophy) claimed to be a molinist, though, he never claimed to be a catholic in the first place.
Even if he is a Molinist, which he may not actually be, my understanding is that it's a theoretically permitted position nuanced correctly, it's just that Molinism is basically dead.
@@anthonymarchetta8796 if you want proof , he said it in his conversation with Ruslan (the second one) towards the beginning of it.
Like a vegan who eats meat
Could you expand on Suarez and his view on middle knowledge?
Bro I finally caught this one just as it came out! Where can I find and read Suarez and some of the other guys you mentioned in this video? I can read scholastics in Latin so it’s okay if they’re not translated.
www.prdl.org/
@@MilitantThomist thanks man! I didn’t realize they were on PRDL.
Im a sillynist
I'm a goofy goober
Is there a pdf of your little catechism on logic ?
On Isidore.co
I realised Christian is always wearing the same black shirt. Crazy. The Blue looks good though.
I have like 10 of them, lol. If you look close enough, some have pockets, others do not.
Erm next time could you start with what Molinism actually is?
No
Maybe you could watch the whole video
Lazy
Bro you promised you would get a buzz cut
Fr that’s what I’m saying
Game over
I have moles, am i a molinist?
Next video: REAL Augustinianism has NEVER been tried.
Mashallah, Aegidian-Thomism will reign
O'Doyle rules!
What position does the Catechism lean more towards?
The Catholic position 😊
This is actually a fantastic question and its funny because in truth its not clear. It seems to contradict itself. But thomism is 100% viable and it might even be probable depending on how you read the catechism. Also worth noting that the catechism cites Augustine on grace and the catechism itself was very influenced by Dominicans.
None of them. On these questions, the Catechism gives us what has been taught by the Church, which are the broad strokes, but the specific theological propositions are debated among the theological schools.
I wonder if Michael Lofton, champion of nuance and distinctions, is a Molinist. :o
“Everyone with a brain has a high regard for St Thomas”… But but Dyer and Orthodox Kyle? I learned all wrongs in the history of humanity are attributable either directly or indirectly to Thomism according to them…
not watching this video, but going to leave a like and comment 👍
I will now be a Molinist by holding to the four positions of Molina. Video deboonked, SAD!
This video would have been much better if it had been more pedagogical. One would have to be an expert already to follow it. The video should have started with what middle knowledge is and how it was seen by some as reconciling free will and God's foreknowledge. Once viewers have that under their belt, the video could go into questions about grace, with (at an early stage) an explanation of the terms efficacious and sufficient grace. Also at some early stage, the terms congruism and Molinism should have been defined. One gets the sense that this video is addressed only to the small group of people who make claims about Molinism, not to the vastly larger group of people who may want to learn more about it. The video's point is not to enlighten and educate the latter group, but rather to baffle and confuse the former group and thus make them realize they don't know what they are talking about and thereby shut them up. There is far too much of this kind of scoring of points and showing off on TH-cam, and not enough of trying to teach and clarify. It is easy to show off, but much harder to explain things well I have seen some videos by Mr. Wagner where he does an excellent job of explaining things; so it is clear he can do it if he wants.
Do the video yourself, then. Nobody is stopping you.
Look. I genuinely wanted to learn something about Molinism, but those 15 minutes ended up being a waste. If I knew enough about the subject to make a video about it, I would not have watched yours. The reason I commented is to be constructive. No other reason. You are obviously a very intelligent and knowledgeable person who loves the Church. But I think you behave flippantly sometimes in a way that harms the quality of some of your videos, which I think is a shame precisely BECAUSE you are so talented.. Your answer to me here shows the same kind of flippancy. What is the point of the flippancy, the snark, etc.? OK. I am 70 years old, and so maybe am just of the wrong generation to be talking about this medium and how to behave on it. Do your thing. You have a big following, so must be doing something right. @@MilitantThomist
Dude, if you were to explain 11:30 in the other videos exactly like that (and slower) everything would have made more sense.
Thomists: Sufficient Grace != Efficacious Grace (but virtually contained in S.G)
Ant. Neg. Rep. People don't get E.G only S.F -> then they sin and God does Consequent Pos. Rep on account of their sin
Molinist: S.G = E.F therefore ANR is impossible since it denies the universal will to save
Is this correct?
William Lane Craig is an obvious strict-observance Thomist
W comment XD
Would you consider congruism eclectic?
At first it was, but then it became a school position, in the same way Thomism was eclectic at first, but then became a school position in the 14th century.
Im a molinist your welcome
*you’re
You don’t exist
Are eclectics an early stage of cafeteria Catholics?
Christian B. Wagner: "Molinists don't exist anymore"
Fr. Pohle: "Thomists don't exist anymore"
I know who I will be following
Pohle rhymes with coal for a reason...
@@MilitantThomist Double Bastard
Nice.
Thank you Mr. Wagner.
Was wondering what weirdos calling themselves 'molinist' meant.
Molinism sucks lmao it's the result of an over-rationalization of God's creative actus purus.
Which soteriology is true?
The Catholic one
Does he have a discord?
Was Luis de Molina a Molinist?
I've gotten hesitant about assuming this, since I discovered that there's some difference of opinion as to whether Nestorius died a Nestorian, or whether Origen was meaningfully an Origenist. And I presume there are other examples.
Whats the joke he is not allowed to say at 0:24?
I am. goosinist and a sillynist yup silly goose
I am a funnist
Molinism doesn't real.
0:40 … GAY??😂😂
:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
SANCTO LUIS DE MOLINA SJ, ORA PRO NOBIS!!!!!
Im a deaconist