How do you find this laser, looking at buying a green laser but heard they love to drain batteries fast. Would you recommend getting the DeWalt one that runs on their rechargeable batteries?
Fused connection unit for the boiler may be elsewhere. When this happens we use a 3 pole isolator by the boiler as local isolation for the gas servicing, so the stat return is isolated too.
I'm feel the exact same way regarding rings... On a side note whenever I do a kitchen rewire and there are RCBOs I tend to put fridge/freezer on its own circuit.....for obvious reasons. Food for thought
Why are you putting 2 radials per floor? If it’s a new install unlikely any faults on cable or no need to worry about overloading with todays appliances🤔 just seems extra work
Okay, so the immersion heater tank cupboard has the boiler controls off a 3/5 amp fused plug top, the fan isolator downstairs is for the live/SL/Neutral down to the boiler - that's fine and within the regs for gas appliances. Would be wise to not remove the fan isolator given the supply for the boiler installation is on a different floor to the boiler. Looks like a fun job other than that.
Glad your doing this in parts, because not seen many full rewires done in length and detail, including planning. From a non electrician’s point of view, I can see this being good for Oscar, if you get chance to say your changing this part of a circuit because..... And so on. Some of the other spark channels, I think they’ve already planned cable runs and when they talk about them, my head wants to explode. Not gonna name names, but there’s one that your having a lot of banter with 😆
Been doing radials since 2004ish now - rings are outdated plus a lot are inproperly designed and installed - we do 2.5 radials for up and down sockets then a 4mm radial for the kitchen 👌
While I can see the attraction of 4mm radials, there are still advantages to running a ring. From a reference method point of view: On a 32A breaker, you can only run a 4mm radial in method C - clipped direct. Any trunking, conduit, or insulation will derate the cable lower than 32A. With a 2.5mm ring, you have more flexibility - Methods 101, 102, A, B, or C can be used. Plus cheaper cable, easier to terminate IMO, and a longer circuit length from a voltage drop perspective.
@@andrewcadby for and against for everything - we very rarely come across a domestic kitchen where we cannot implement this - 4mm radials are a doddle in the back of a socket - and like anything if it is designed properly it works. I particularly use ring finals as a last resort as: - Rings can often continue to operate without a user being aware of faults that make the circuit unsafe (and many of them faults are left for years in the uk due to the lack of EICRs at regular intervals) - future works and additions on the circuit usually result in spurring off which usually ends up in 3 cables in the back of a socket (cause of a bad fault we found only last week where one of these cables was sitting loose for some time) - rings encourage installation of too many spurs and if not installed properly and too long (seen this on many an install) there’s a risk of overheating From my time as a site manager I grew tired of the amount of times ring end-to-end resistance values where clearly guessed and calculated (it’s in my view the most “blagged” test behind IR (obviously this is unacceptable but there are a lot who do it) I’m not confident in a vast majority of sparks I come across regarding testing - many of our guys are re-taught when coming to us after picking up bad habits - ring final circuits safety is massively dependant on regular and proper testing - if there’s a fault with a radial you normally know about it. Oh and then there’s 433.1.204 and appendix 15 - I’m yet to come across a ring that completely complies with these particularly relating to load balance Just my views after many years of installation and testing in all manner of installations - ring finals have by far been the number one on the list of circuits I’ve found defects with 👍
@@stfelectricalltd6849 some great points there mate. I can see why a radial is easier for additions, extending a ring means taking 2 cables onward, or spurring, which has limitations. It's true that a ring can continue to work if there is a single break in either L or N conductors, with a risk of overloading either leg. With a radial, the problem would likely be apparent, as part of the circuit wouldn't work. However, a single loose connection on a radial could result in arcing, increasing the risk of fire - this wouldn't happen with a ring. Also, a single break in the CPC of a radial would leave part (possibly all) of the circuit without an earth, again going undetected without testing - this doesn't happen with a ring without there being 2 breaks. A common fault on lighting circuits that have been DIYed over the years, which are IMO, even worse for defects than rings. Agree that some sparks struggle with testing of rings. I think it's the R1+Rn and R1+R2 tests which people struggle with most. Carrying out the tests on a radial, it's clear what is being tested, but the figure-of-8 test on a ring... go through the motions, get the results, but it's not clear to many why the test is carried out that way. I don't see why people struggle with end-to-end tests though, they are incredibly easy to carry out, understand, and both ends are there waiting for you in the board. There's no excuse really. 3 conductors in socket terminals - same problem exists for radials if you branch off, and harder to get 3 X 4mm in 1 terminal IMO. 433.1.204 ... Such circuits are deemed to meet the requirements of Regulation 433.1.1 if the current-carrying capacity (Iz) of the cable is not less than 20 A and if, under the intended conditions of use, the load current in any part of the circuit is unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity (lz) of the cable. It's the 'long periods' bit that makes this regulation very easy to comply with in a domestic installation. If app 15 has been followed, there's nothing that'll be drawing a heavy enough load for long enough. It's worth mentioning that app 15 is a design guide rather than regulation, and deviating from it doesn't automatically mean non compliance, although it's generally preferable to keep within its rules. As you say though, there's for and against for either type of circuit, and either can work perfectly or become a hazard depending on how it was installed
Good video as always. If I were rewiring I’d encourage the client to have a light with a battery backup (the BT14 is around £50) by the consumer unit so in a power failure or if the lighting breaker trips they are not hunting round for a torch. Anyone offer this?
Hi Jordan I understand your reluctance to install ring circuits but the thing I dont like about radial circuits is that the cpc could be lost at socket 2 and then the others sockets after are not protected when I fitted a radial circuit we used to run a independent green and yellow to each point. At least with a ring circuit you basically have 2 earth paths or am I missing something. Also the extra cost involved in the extra RCBOs 10 x £20.00 odd quid as opposed to just a duel RCD board puts about £200.00 on the cost just for the consumer unit.
@@supersparks9466 Do you not think that their is a higher chance of an shock potential from sockets that are used daily or even to power a garden appliance. Than a light hanging 7ft of the ceiling. I didnt say it's a must it's just a point I was making.
@chris Arden metal switches are not 7 foot from the floor so your reasoning Fails there. Open cpc in a ring final may afford some temporary protection but it’s still a fault which needs rectifying. We can’t go putting in extra stuff just incase this or that fault , where does that end?
When I worked for the education as a IT Tech in the CDT Department the tiles were asbestos workers were in there and I told them so they put the correct kit on. Then am told I should not of told them, telling me if they become ill, they could come back to us. I then told them again it is and it is now up to them. I then worked removing the stuff we had full kit looked like space men. Nasty stuff when moved broken bit like MDF may be in 20 or so years we will have the same issue with MDF.
Might have trouble getting distances in the downstairs loo for an alarm (c0 not c02 btw) Also it's a room-sealed appliance not atmospheric so both combustion air is room outside the property along with flue gas pipe. Or were you referring to the airing cupboard?
Effer Vescence good info 👍 300mm from a wall on the ceiling might be achievable but not the 1M away from the appliance probs not, I’d still put one in anyway if I’m doing everything else.
@@whatthedeuse Completely agree, just have to remember there's also a basin and loo in there which will effect placement also. That said I am surprised it doesn't have a combi boiler and an electric shower given the size of the property. Practically a brand new boiler (model has only been out a couple years) but dated system.
@@stuartandrews4344 I know right, I get the feeling it was an old back boiler and someone walked in one day and AR/ID'd it hence the change. By the looks of the floor plan this was the only available wall spot - brand new gas/flow/return (also return T's in after the filter). This is a place that could definitely use 10-15k spent on updating electrics and CH/HW.
Super interesting to watch! Love your videos, I'm a trainee electrician and it's nice to be able to watch your videos and keep learning even when I'm at home!
5 days and how many on the job??? in the days when the 15th edition was youthful we were doing occupied 3 bed house rewires in a day,just 1 sparky and 1 apprentice.The chasing tool was a bolster and lump hammer powered by the apprentice and the only powered screw driver was a yanky
Utter rubbish. Even with the old crap you Old boys used to install with one socket in a room and a pendant. Let’s just say you did only 7 chases down the walls and chased in 7 back boxes that’s gotta be 6 hours work so call that a day for the the apprentice. Then let’s say second fix - just say 10 pendant lights and 10 sockets 10 switches - 15 mins each is a quick average probably not achievable in reality - there’s another days labour so who did the cable pulling, floorboard lifting, furniture moving, cleaning up etc etc ? Modern installation 3 bed house even empty is 10 days labour. I haven’t done many a hate rewires but charge per point on average £50 per point, around 100 points in a house it’s 5£K
@@jconnery563 back in the day when there was no editions, we'd get a candle in every room of a 16 bedroom mansion before first light and have a child up every chimney and out again with fires lit by lunchtime.
I am not a fan of ring final circuits myself, I am going to fit a 32 amp 4mm Radial circuit in the kitchen, would that be something you would consider on future jobs. I hope to get my Metabo wall chaser and extractor up and running this next week. I thought about hiring one out, but i like to have my own tools as I do like to look after them and ready them for the next job. Looking forward to seeing this one through, thanks for sharing.
And mains battery back smoke alarms to be installed boss 😂 and 90% of the time quote per point always works out to get the day rate I want, plus allows on profit at the end just have to move quicker to make more.
I don’t know if you omitted, but don’t forget about the fire alarms and the co2 in that toilet where the boiler is, mate. I’m doing a rewire right now, kinda hate them, because are messy.
Like radials but two for four bedrooms is well overkill. If i recall correctly you're allowed one radial per 75sqm meaning first floor could easily have been put on one radial. Why did you decide to split them? Seems to just be unnecessarily taking up room on the CU and costing more money.
I have just bought a 1960s house in Croydon, 3 story townhouse. I will also need to assume asbestos in the ceilings. Seems to be a skim of hard smooth concrete on the walls over the brickwork. Not plaster, could that contain also contain the 'a' word! The house you are working looks slightly later like 1970s? Do you do any jobs in my area?
Hi when do you decide that the house needs Rewiring or do you do it when your customer request it as I find that thermoplastic cables can still be in good condition up to 50 years old after a visual inspection and insulation resistance test so I usually Upgrade the Switchboard to Circuit Breakers and RCD's and upgrade the Earth Cable and New Earth Rod.......have a good New Year.
Sorry I've seen overkill a few times but 2 radials upstairs and 2 radials downstairs and 1 kitchen ring, could you explain to me where in my experience tells me that less than 1 amp is used in bedrooms at any one time thus 1 radial for the whole of the upper level is more than enough and 1 radial downstairs where maybe an upstand light a TV and maybe wi-fi is used , OK 2 lighting circuits is good and a final ring circuit for the kitchen is sensible and a separate supply to a shower and a separate circuit fir the boiler but that's it, and he'll will freeze over before I'm wiring neutrals to my switches, in my 50 years in the electrical game I was taught that the fear connections you have in a circuit the less chance of problems yet you are adding connections in the back of switches which is to me crazy plus the easiest place to pick up a feed is from the ceiling rose so why change something that has worked for decades, and I'm not havingbthis argument that a neutral at a switch is good because if they install thus modern lighting system you don't need a neutral at the switch because you can buy ones that don't require a neutral,the only time I would put a neutral at a switch would be at the front or back door to control outside lighting so you can put in a double pole switch to make sure that you can disconnect the neutral
That socket in the bathroom would have been for an old infrared heater, it would never have been unplugged when it was there but they used to do that for some reason.
In the USA we now use our bathroom outlets so much that code requires a separate circuit for them - no sharing with an adjacent room. Very convenient for hair dryers, curling irons, shavers, toothbrushes, water flossers, and the occasional television.
@@JasonEDragon I got annoyed when I moved back to the UK from NA and put in a dedicated point in each of my bathrooms on it's own circuit for the same reason. As long as it's under the use/supervision of someone competent it's allowable. At some point regulations will change to allow it though the UK is slow to change with the times.
Hey Jordan a great job as always 1 question i have for you. Why are al the consumer units in the UK feed with a 63 80 or 100 amp supply in the netherlands every consumer unit above 40 amp is converted to a 3 fase supply for future proving.
Most houses only have a single phase supply as that is all that was ran to them originally It tends to be only businesses that get a 2 phase or 3 phase supply as it tends to be more expensive
@@BenCos2018 thank you in the netherlands almost every home even older ones hase a 3 fase supply butt with only 1 fase in use when you want to upgrade to a 3 fase 25 amp supply it can be quit easly done. Thank you realy
You tend to find in the UK every 3rd house is on the same phase. Baring in mind most of the supplies were done in a rush post war during a copper shortage and people weren't even expected to have a fridge freezer let alone all the things we have now. 3 phase was priority for industry (again cost saving measures and helping to rebuild after the war). Generally there wasn't as much rebuilding in a lot of the EU countries needed compared to the UK as most of the countries fell fast with little damage to the civilian housing compared to the indiscriminate bombing of the blitz and the retaliation bombings of German cities. So the rebuilding and investment needed was more costly and generally they tried to stretch as much as they could hence the UK is so different from the rest of the EU.
@@pyrounlimited7035 yep I think it was because most of the UK system was built back in the post war times (that caused a shortage of metals for the wires) and also they didn't expect as much demand as we have now (the supplies used to literally be about 20 amps single phase back then
In Germany three-phase is the standard for domestic installations. And that's something I don't understand on UK installations, because using three-phase instead of single phase spares round about 50% in materials required like copper for the cables and the transformers out on the street. Here in Germany three-phase was also installed because on some houses they installed sirens, for example to warn the people of natural disasters, to send the fire brigade out and during the cold war also as a warning from NBC weapons. Small towns here still use the sirens to alarm the fire brigade, especially if they can't afford a beeper. Or as a backup if the radio controlled alarming system fails. The sirens are mostly sirens type E57, E=Einheitssirene, standard siren model 57 and was produced between 1957 and 1990. Requires 400V (all three-phases) and is normally fused with three 20A Diazed fuses. Normally they were installed on public buildings, but sometimes in small villages also on regular houses. In that case the supply of the siren bypassed the meter, the control box was sealed to prevent people from stealing electricity from there. Last year there was a big test of the warning system here in Germany....the new crap with apps on the phones totally failed, but the old reliable sirens worked perfectly. They're also radio controlled, but local operation is also possible. th-cam.com/video/8m1ketVhQCM/w-d-xo.html
whats the best make for low profile screwless double socket? plus old wires are pinched where previously screwed into socket, do i need to cut to fresh metal?
I never understood ring circuits (well, ok: I'm from central Europe^^). I mean, I understand that there will be power, if the ring is broken somewhere (which is important for fire alarm, etc.), but if there is a phase damaged in-line (risk of fire), there is a chance that you won't even notice it because everything is still feeded by the other side of the ring, isn't it?
Yup, that’s the problem, though in reality it doesn’t really result in many fires. If you were brave you could argue there safer as you’re less likely to get significant arcing from a single bad connection?
Are those (bathroom) pull switches common in the UK? Am just curious. I'm an electrician in Canada. Here we use regular wall switches, but provide them with ground-fault protection if they're within a certain distance of water.
I’ve seen too many broken ring circuits over the years so I stay away from them where possible. Pull chords much easier to install plus some cases you don’t have enough space on the wall outside the bathroom to fit a switch.
The only thing I would do different is ,the hallway lighting , I would have done maybe 3 or 4 way switched , switch by the front door/ stairs depends how far apart they are , switch by the lounge door , switch by the kitchen door . I would also consider the same for the landing light .May be two way switching in the lounge if they have access to the dining room from the lounge. Maybe two switching in the dining room if they have access to the garden from the dining room. We don't do enough multiple way switching in houses for modern day living
Hi, An interesting video as ever but like myself don't care to much for final ring circuits so l am surprised that you don't install 32A radial circuits using 4mm sq twin & earth cable if not only in the kitchen and utility areas of the rewire? Anyway keep up the good work and stay safe.
Have you seen the price of 4mm twin, it's crazy how much it is, it's a lot more than a drum of 2.5 and 1.5, and there's more pvc in those two drums. Personally I don't have any issue with ring circuits, it's just the idiots that haven't got a clue, that mess that circuit up.
@@acelectricalsecurity have you seen how much he charges 😂 I’m sure he can lose 25m of 4mm in the price that’s got to be at least 30 quid..versus the 20quid of the 2.5....so an extra tenner ?
@@Marco-mg9tv I heard what people say he's charging, but unfortunately he's not the one footing the bill, obviously he can afford it, just like most of us can, but the customer is picking up the tab at the end of the day
@@acelectricalsecurity it’s a silly point to make. Maybe 2.5mm is half the price or whatever but you need twice as much and more labour so your argument kind of falls flat on its face.
4:00 - I like their idea, speccing the house for new build and EV should be important should they ever sell as its future proofed for later developments
Is there a time frame on a house that needs to be rewired. I bought a home and it was built in the 50s will it need to be rewired. Even the electrics are all good. I have been advised that I will need to get a new fuse box.
Hi Jordan just a question to ask you. Your doing a good video again. I was interested in the way your mixing your lighting circuit up and down on the 2 gang switch I always put my circuits separated due to mixed supplies at the back of one lighting back box. But keep the videos coming your doing a really good job. Always watching. Also you've got your time scale about wright for the rewire
You're right mate. There's supposed to be signage advising theres two circuits at an accessory or enclosure but who does that on a domestic dwelling (no one). This is something in the industry which is ignored with the recommendation for two separate lighting circuits on a stairwell taking preference. Like I say, what u do is correct in my opinion. Separate back box and separate 1 gang 2 way for up and down, just never gets done like that.
@@Daniells1982 I thought that was just a recommendation if the voltage between circuits would be 415? Also you should test for dead for messing around anyway
@@lewis94uk regulation 514.11.1. A notice shall be fixed where live parts are not capable of being isolated by a single device. Contentious one I know and it never happens. Comes down to interpretation I suppose and you're right, safe isolation goes without saying.
Hi Jordan. Pricing an job that will be done by others , is never easy. But if you know how each operative works you can have a pretty good guess. And definitely make it clear that any unforeseen problems must be covered by the client, but in the case of a total rewire this is less likely. And ultimately the guess you make is based on experience. The materials used should be relatively easy to work out, and a wholesaler should be able to give you a costing . But anyone new to pricing work will soon realise their not charging enough, and the same goes for charging to much ie no work . In all honesty I think it’s the customer who has the hardest job . Deciding the right person for the job in the first place. If you’re honest, reliable, and do good quality work. Your reputation will be what gets you the work in the long run . So to all you budding sparks Go For it 😄👍
For a student how would you simply explain the places you may find asbestos. I am new to this - not electrics but not very knowledged in the asbestos area. Any info would be great and again great video :)
Hey Jordan- great video. Quick question - what options will be available for houses with 2 or 3 electric cars ( in future ) ? Can we have multiple charger points ?
@@artisanelectrics worries me how it will work as we all move to electric - we currently have 3 petrol cars and many houses have 2 or 3 cars - not sure how all can be charged each night !
Well your basically screwed, unless they give us an extra phase, although as the UK can only just cope with the current demand that may not happen. As, Scotty used to say, you Cana change the laws of physics.
Had cut out replaced here,DNO (Western Power) fitted 80A fuse, but also offer a free upgrade for 3 phase 3x 80A. So a phase for the EV charger, a phase for the heat pump/2nd charger,etc, & one for the house. See Efixx for more details: th-cam.com/video/D5wn5Eju3_Y/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgwTD3eMyPHVMMVIoH14AaABAg.9IPsnYW9fJ99I_ZuThUxMq
Could you still do ring main socket circuits but just keep to 20A breaker? Then can be increased in the future if greater demand required in particular location. Not much extra cost.
Dewalt Green Laser: amzn.to/35LF1tz
How do you find this laser, looking at buying a green laser but heard they love to drain batteries fast. Would you recommend getting the DeWalt one that runs on their rechargeable batteries?
@@garethg2501 Using a Imex LX22G Cross Line Green Beam laser level here,has 3 year warrenty, & uses AA batteries,they say 16 hours all lasers on.
Its a great stuff.. I have the stanley one but i can barely see the beam especially when it is a bit bright!
@@garethg2501 do not get a cheap one, despite the expensive price but i think this dewalt laser was built to last
Fused connection unit for the boiler may be elsewhere. When this happens we use a 3 pole isolator by the boiler as local isolation for the gas servicing, so the stat return is isolated too.
When they say failed PAT.... they mean they double booked it out. 😝
LOL
You could have said, that's fine I'm an electrician so can test and fault diagnose it myself!
@@tomlee6329 That would have been David Saverys response 😁
💯%🤣👌🏻
I'm feel the exact same way regarding rings...
On a side note whenever I do a kitchen rewire and there are RCBOs I tend to put fridge/freezer on its own circuit.....for obvious reasons.
Food for thought
Good idea! We have done the same!
Why are you putting 2 radials per floor? If it’s a new install unlikely any faults on cable or no need to worry about overloading with todays appliances🤔 just seems extra work
Okay, so the immersion heater tank cupboard has the boiler controls off a 3/5 amp fused plug top, the fan isolator downstairs is for the live/SL/Neutral down to the boiler - that's fine and within the regs for gas appliances. Would be wise to not remove the fan isolator given the supply for the boiler installation is on a different floor to the boiler. Looks like a fun job other than that.
Thanks!
Glad your doing this in parts, because not seen many full rewires done in length and detail, including planning. From a non electrician’s point of view, I can see this being good for Oscar, if you get chance to say your changing this part of a circuit because..... And so on. Some of the other spark channels, I think they’ve already planned cable runs and when they talk about them, my head wants to explode. Not gonna name names, but there’s one that your having a lot of banter with 😆
Thanks! Hope you enjoy the series! This has been a nightmare rewire to be honest...
@@artisanelectrics Look at it like this, it’ll be an interesting one to watch 🤣
All done in surface mount Flexicon 😂😂😂
quite an interesting layout upstairs with bathub/toilet/shower in 3 different rooms. i'd knock through at least one of those walls.
Been doing radials since 2004ish now - rings are outdated plus a lot are inproperly designed and installed - we do 2.5 radials for up and down sockets then a 4mm radial for the kitchen 👌
While I can see the attraction of 4mm radials, there are still advantages to running a ring. From a reference method point of view: On a 32A breaker, you can only run a 4mm radial in method C - clipped direct. Any trunking, conduit, or insulation will derate the cable lower than 32A. With a 2.5mm ring, you have more flexibility - Methods 101, 102, A, B, or C can be used. Plus cheaper cable, easier to terminate IMO, and a longer circuit length from a voltage drop perspective.
@@andrewcadby for and against for everything - we very rarely come across a domestic kitchen where we cannot implement this - 4mm radials are a doddle in the back of a socket - and like anything if it is designed properly it works. I particularly use ring finals as a last resort as:
- Rings can often continue to operate without a user being aware of faults that make the circuit unsafe (and many of them faults are left for years in the uk due to the lack of EICRs at regular intervals)
- future works and additions on the circuit usually result in spurring off which usually ends up in 3 cables in the back of a socket (cause of a bad fault we found only last week where one of these cables was sitting loose for some time)
- rings encourage installation of too many spurs and if not installed properly and too long (seen this on many an install) there’s a risk of overheating
From my time as a site manager I grew tired of the amount of times ring end-to-end resistance values where clearly guessed and calculated (it’s in my view the most “blagged” test behind IR (obviously this is unacceptable but there are a lot who do it)
I’m not confident in a vast majority of sparks I come across regarding testing - many of our guys are re-taught when coming to us after picking up bad habits - ring final circuits safety is massively dependant on regular and proper testing - if there’s a fault with a radial you normally know about it.
Oh and then there’s 433.1.204 and appendix 15 - I’m yet to come across a ring that completely complies with these particularly relating to load balance
Just my views after many years of installation and testing in all manner of installations - ring finals have by far been the number one on the list of circuits I’ve found defects with 👍
@@stfelectricalltd6849 some great points there mate. I can see why a radial is easier for additions, extending a ring means taking 2 cables onward, or spurring, which has limitations.
It's true that a ring can continue to work if there is a single break in either L or N conductors, with a risk of overloading either leg. With a radial, the problem would likely be apparent, as part of the circuit wouldn't work. However, a single loose connection on a radial could result in arcing, increasing the risk of fire - this wouldn't happen with a ring.
Also, a single break in the CPC of a radial would leave part (possibly all) of the circuit without an earth, again going undetected without testing - this doesn't happen with a ring without there being 2 breaks. A common fault on lighting circuits that have been DIYed over the years, which are IMO, even worse for defects than rings.
Agree that some sparks struggle with testing of rings. I think it's the R1+Rn and R1+R2 tests which people struggle with most. Carrying out the tests on a radial, it's clear what is being tested, but the figure-of-8 test on a ring... go through the motions, get the results, but it's not clear to many why the test is carried out that way.
I don't see why people struggle with end-to-end tests though, they are incredibly easy to carry out, understand, and both ends are there waiting for you in the board. There's no excuse really.
3 conductors in socket terminals - same problem exists for radials if you branch off, and harder to get 3 X 4mm in 1 terminal IMO.
433.1.204 ... Such circuits are deemed to meet the requirements of Regulation 433.1.1 if the current-carrying capacity (Iz) of the cable is not less than 20 A and if, under the intended conditions of use, the load current in any part of the circuit is unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity (lz) of the cable.
It's the 'long periods' bit that makes this regulation very easy to comply with in a domestic installation. If app 15 has been followed, there's nothing that'll be drawing a heavy enough load for long enough.
It's worth mentioning that app 15 is a design guide rather than regulation, and deviating from it doesn't automatically mean non compliance, although it's generally preferable to keep within its rules.
As you say though, there's for and against for either type of circuit, and either can work perfectly or become a hazard depending on how it was installed
This guy exudes competence.
1. Takeaway
2. Artisan Electrics
Now thats a lock down Saturday night!
You forgot the 🍺🍺🍺🍺😂😂😂😂
As they have solar, they need to have something like a myenergi eddi installed to power their immersion heater.
Yeah could be good
Mate the radial ideas are so good, such a better way to run socket circuits
Good video as always. If I were rewiring I’d encourage the client to have a light with a battery backup (the BT14 is around £50) by the consumer unit so in a power failure or if the lighting breaker trips they are not hunting round for a torch. Anyone offer this?
Yeah we have done that!
Hi Jordan I understand your reluctance to install ring circuits but the thing I dont like about radial circuits is that the cpc could be lost at socket 2 and then the others sockets after are not protected when I fitted a radial circuit we used to run a independent green and yellow to each point. At least with a ring circuit you basically have 2 earth paths or am I missing something. Also the extra cost involved in the extra RCBOs 10 x £20.00 odd quid as opposed to just a duel RCD board puts about £200.00 on the cost just for the consumer unit.
So by your method you run another cpc for the lights or any other radial circuits yes, if not pointless just picking on socket radials.
@@supersparks9466 Do you not think that their is a higher chance of an shock potential from sockets that are used daily or even to power a garden appliance. Than a light hanging 7ft of the ceiling. I didnt say it's a must it's just a point I was making.
@chris Arden metal switches are not 7 foot from the floor so your reasoning Fails there. Open cpc in a ring final may afford some temporary protection but it’s still a fault which needs rectifying. We can’t go putting in extra stuff just incase this or that fault , where does that end?
@@supersparks9466 Bedlam AKA 19th Edition.
@chris ardern hope you get the credit in the 19th
Great videos As always, keep them coming
Thanks!
Would always recommend RCD protect the temp supply socket.
When I worked for the education as a IT Tech in the CDT Department the tiles were asbestos workers were in there and I told them so they put the correct kit on. Then am told I should not of told them, telling me if they become ill, they could come back to us. I then told them again it is and it is now up to them. I then worked removing the stuff we had full kit looked like space men. Nasty stuff when moved broken bit like MDF may be in 20 or so years we will have the same issue with MDF.
Interlinked mains battery backup smokes on landing and downstairs hall, heat in kitchen and a c02 in the boiler cupboard 🤘🤛
Might have trouble getting distances in the downstairs loo for an alarm (c0 not c02 btw) Also it's a room-sealed appliance not atmospheric so both combustion air is room outside the property along with flue gas pipe. Or were you referring to the airing cupboard?
Effer Vescence good info 👍 300mm from a wall on the ceiling might be achievable but not the 1M away from the appliance probs not, I’d still put one in anyway if I’m doing everything else.
@@whatthedeuse Completely agree, just have to remember there's also a basin and loo in there which will effect placement also. That said I am surprised it doesn't have a combi boiler and an electric shower given the size of the property. Practically a brand new boiler (model has only been out a couple years) but dated system.
@@effervescence5664 Naff location for boiler & that Magna Clean position, badly thought out...
@@stuartandrews4344 I know right, I get the feeling it was an old back boiler and someone walked in one day and AR/ID'd it hence the change. By the looks of the floor plan this was the only available wall spot - brand new gas/flow/return (also return T's in after the filter). This is a place that could definitely use 10-15k spent on updating electrics and CH/HW.
Can’t wait to see the finished article, don’t ever recall you doing a re-wire on TH-cam
Nick and Adam would have that sorted in a couple of days and you have how many ppl working on it ? 😂
Nick and Adam are the best lmao
LOL
And Chris would have rewired, filled the chases and fitted new central heating all in a week 🤣
Yeah CJR plumbing and heating
You got any bundy 10 going in? 😂
Super interesting to watch! Love your videos, I'm a trainee electrician and it's nice to be able to watch your videos and keep learning even when I'm at home!
Thanks!
I always work to 2hrs labour per point and a % on material and operation costs 👍
Don't you need a 5 inch fan for the utility? Especially with a washer/Dryer
Modern dryers use a 'heat pump' - no need for extraction/venting.
I will be interested to know rhe complete price as I just had a rewire of a 3 bed semi with new consumer units ad total was £13.5k!
5 days and how many on the job??? in the days when the 15th edition was youthful we were doing occupied 3 bed house rewires in a day,just 1 sparky and 1 apprentice.The chasing tool was a bolster and lump hammer powered by the apprentice and the only powered screw driver was a yanky
Superman electrical
Back when the 14th edition was youthful we did occupied 4 bedroom houses in half a day with just a hammer and flathead screwdriver for chases
Haha, I’d love to see you rewire a 3 bed house in a day with new DB etc (even old school minimal sockets/lighting.....total rubbish, sorry.
Utter rubbish. Even with the old crap you Old boys used to install with one socket in a room and a pendant. Let’s just say you did only 7 chases down the walls and chased in 7 back boxes that’s gotta be 6 hours work so call that a day for the the apprentice. Then let’s say second fix - just say 10 pendant lights and 10 sockets 10 switches - 15 mins each is a quick average probably not achievable in reality - there’s another days labour so who did the cable pulling, floorboard lifting, furniture moving, cleaning up etc etc ? Modern installation 3 bed house even empty is 10 days labour. I haven’t done many a hate rewires but charge per point on average £50 per point, around 100 points in a house it’s 5£K
@@jconnery563 back in the day when there was no editions, we'd get a candle in every room of a 16 bedroom mansion before first light and have a child up every chimney and out again with fires lit by lunchtime.
Fan out through vent tile in the roof. Simple and almost invisible on the outside, plus no core-drilling.
Yea that’s the plan!
I love watching your videos absolutely amazing...
I was under the impression that the old wires are removed , is this not the case?
I am not a fan of ring final circuits myself, I am going to fit a 32 amp 4mm Radial circuit in the kitchen, would that be something you would consider on future jobs. I hope to get my Metabo wall chaser and extractor up and running this next week. I thought about hiring one out, but i like to have my own tools as I do like to look after them and ready them for the next job. Looking forward to seeing this one through, thanks for sharing.
"refina one never heard of it". Refina are a big plastering tool manufacturer, they make great plastering products.
And mains battery back smoke alarms to be installed boss 😂 and 90% of the time quote per point always works out to get the day rate I want, plus allows on profit at the end just have to move quicker to make more.
I don’t know if you omitted, but don’t forget about the fire alarms and the co2 in that toilet where the boiler is, mate. I’m doing a rewire right now, kinda hate them, because are messy.
What's wrong with CO2?
@@AllStarNES - CO not CO2 - sorry, my bad
We do 450 centres for sockets and 1050 centres for light switches in Scotland
Also we never do radials always rings . Wish we did radials would make our life easier
I was here to see a metabo wall chaser and vacuum cleaner like mr bundy's 😂😂😂😂
😂
You need one of those beast I think you can justify having one between you all.
@@mathman0101 Jordan rents everything. His house, car, tools and box$ 😂
Nice to see you dislike ring circuits,radials=way to go.
Agreed, why we would ever need a 32A ring circuit with such energy efficient devices is beyond me.
Like radials but two for four bedrooms is well overkill. If i recall correctly you're allowed one radial per 75sqm meaning first floor could easily have been put on one radial. Why did you decide to split them? Seems to just be unnecessarily taking up room on the CU and costing more money.
Nice house when it's all done!
Yeah it is!
I have just bought a 1960s house in Croydon, 3 story townhouse. I will also need to assume asbestos in the ceilings. Seems to be a skim of hard smooth concrete on the walls over the brickwork. Not plaster, could that contain also contain the 'a' word! The house you are working looks slightly later like 1970s? Do you do any jobs in my area?
Very interesting to see a complete rewire! Thanks Jordan and team!
How much usually does it cost for the electrical work? Thanks
Hi when do you decide that the house needs Rewiring or do you do it when your customer request it as I find that thermoplastic cables can still be in good condition up to 50 years old after a visual inspection and insulation resistance test so I usually Upgrade the Switchboard to Circuit Breakers and RCD's and upgrade the Earth Cable and New Earth Rod.......have a good New Year.
For a ring do you share 1 mcb for the return or???😊
Sorry I've seen overkill a few times but 2 radials upstairs and 2 radials downstairs and 1 kitchen ring, could you explain to me where in my experience tells me that less than 1 amp is used in bedrooms at any one time thus 1 radial for the whole of the upper level is more than enough and 1 radial downstairs where maybe an upstand light a TV and maybe wi-fi is used , OK 2 lighting circuits is good and a final ring circuit for the kitchen is sensible and a separate supply to a shower and a separate circuit fir the boiler but that's it, and he'll will freeze over before I'm wiring neutrals to my switches, in my 50 years in the electrical game I was taught that the fear connections you have in a circuit the less chance of problems yet you are adding connections in the back of switches which is to me crazy plus the easiest place to pick up a feed is from the ceiling rose so why change something that has worked for decades, and I'm not havingbthis argument that a neutral at a switch is good because if they install thus modern lighting system you don't need a neutral at the switch because you can buy ones that don't require a neutral,the only time I would put a neutral at a switch would be at the front or back door to control outside lighting so you can put in a double pole switch to make sure that you can disconnect the neutral
That socket in the bathroom would have been for an old infrared heater, it would never have been unplugged when it was there but they used to do that for some reason.
In the USA we now use our bathroom outlets so much that code requires a separate circuit for them - no sharing with an adjacent room. Very convenient for hair dryers, curling irons, shavers, toothbrushes, water flossers, and the occasional television.
@@JasonEDragon I got annoyed when I moved back to the UK from NA and put in a dedicated point in each of my bathrooms on it's own circuit for the same reason. As long as it's under the use/supervision of someone competent it's allowable. At some point regulations will change to allow it though the UK is slow to change with the times.
Hi how much aproximattely cost to re wire a house like that .Many thanks
£12000
@@artisanelectrics thank you
Radials! Me too. Hate the rings!
Great content I love you. You are amazing guy very intelligent
Nice to see you get mucky. Always entertaining. I can do these with my eyes closed now lol
2:11 how much is that switch from the door frame ?
Back to basics ! Nice 👍
Why is rewire needed? you just add new wire next to existing wire?
If there is asbestos doesn't it need to be removed from the home?
can you please show all the testing thx
Surely an incorrectly installed radial is just as bad as an incorrectly installed ring?
you should get a metabo wall chaser and vac like nick bundy
Think he's proving a point as he didn't receive one as a freebie like the others!
Haha maybe one day!
How much are asbestos surveys?
what cable you use for radial ?
Why not use 4 mm radial in the kitchen instead of a ring
4mm Isn’t rated for 32amp in most reference methods... not sure why they tried pushing 32amp 4mm radials then down rated the cable 😩
Hey Jordan a great job as always 1 question i have for you.
Why are al the consumer units in the UK feed with a 63 80 or 100 amp supply in the netherlands every consumer unit above 40 amp is converted to a 3 fase supply for future proving.
Most houses only have a single phase supply as that is all that was ran to them originally
It tends to be only businesses that get a 2 phase or 3 phase supply as it tends to be more expensive
@@BenCos2018 thank you in the netherlands almost every home even older ones hase a 3 fase supply butt with only 1 fase in use when you want to upgrade to a 3 fase 25 amp supply it can be quit easly done.
Thank you realy
You tend to find in the UK every 3rd house is on the same phase. Baring in mind most of the supplies were done in a rush post war during a copper shortage and people weren't even expected to have a fridge freezer let alone all the things we have now. 3 phase was priority for industry (again cost saving measures and helping to rebuild after the war).
Generally there wasn't as much rebuilding in a lot of the EU countries needed compared to the UK as most of the countries fell fast with little damage to the civilian housing compared to the indiscriminate bombing of the blitz and the retaliation bombings of German cities. So the rebuilding and investment needed was more costly and generally they tried to stretch as much as they could hence the UK is so different from the rest of the EU.
@@pyrounlimited7035 yep
I think it was because most of the UK system was built back in the post war times (that caused a shortage of metals for the wires) and also they didn't expect as much demand as we have now (the supplies used to literally be about 20 amps single phase back then
In Germany three-phase is the standard for domestic installations. And that's something I don't understand on UK installations, because using three-phase instead of single phase spares round about 50% in materials required like copper for the cables and the transformers out on the street.
Here in Germany three-phase was also installed because on some houses they installed sirens, for example to warn the people of natural disasters, to send the fire brigade out and during the cold war also as a warning from NBC weapons. Small towns here still use the sirens to alarm the fire brigade, especially if they can't afford a beeper. Or as a backup if the radio controlled alarming system fails.
The sirens are mostly sirens type E57, E=Einheitssirene, standard siren model 57 and was produced between 1957 and 1990. Requires 400V (all three-phases) and is normally fused with three 20A Diazed fuses.
Normally they were installed on public buildings, but sometimes in small villages also on regular houses. In that case the supply of the siren bypassed the meter, the control box was sealed to prevent people from stealing electricity from there.
Last year there was a big test of the warning system here in Germany....the new crap with apps on the phones totally failed, but the old reliable sirens worked perfectly. They're also radio controlled, but local operation is also possible.
th-cam.com/video/8m1ketVhQCM/w-d-xo.html
whats the best make for low profile screwless double socket? plus old wires are pinched where previously screwed into socket, do i need to cut to fresh metal?
So in the 5 days you quoted are you ripping out all that green gunge cable everywhere? How do you dispose of it?
Be impossible to remove every bit of cable, unless you pull the place to bits, which I doubt any one would.
I never understood ring circuits (well, ok: I'm from central Europe^^). I mean, I understand that there will be power, if the ring is broken somewhere (which is important for fire alarm, etc.), but if there is a phase damaged in-line (risk of fire), there is a chance that you won't even notice it because everything is still feeded by the other side of the ring, isn't it?
Yup, that’s the problem, though in reality it doesn’t really result in many fires. If you were brave you could argue there safer as you’re less likely to get significant arcing from a single bad connection?
Ah yes carpet in the kitchen. The perfect floor.
Does that double socket to the right above the hob comply to Regs ?
Are those (bathroom) pull switches common in the UK? Am just curious.
I'm an electrician in Canada. Here we use regular wall switches, but provide them with ground-fault protection if they're within a certain distance of water.
Yes. Some modern houses will have a normal switch outside the door, like Europe.
Yes, every house I lived in had a pull swich.
Great video
Radial circuits instead of ring circuits....why??? Why would you fit pull cords when you can put switches outside the room??
Radials are much easier to maintain, though I’m sure Jordan charges per circuit for EICRs, so
I’ve seen too many broken ring circuits over the years so I stay away from them where possible.
Pull chords much easier to install plus some cases you don’t have enough space on the wall outside the bathroom to fit a switch.
I don’t charge per circuit for EICRs, just charge based on size of house or number of bedrooms
The only thing I would do different is ,the hallway lighting , I would have done maybe 3 or 4 way switched , switch by the front door/ stairs depends how far apart they are , switch by the lounge door , switch by the kitchen door . I would also consider the same for the landing light .May be two way switching in the lounge if they have access to the dining room from the lounge. Maybe two switching in the dining room if they have access to the garden from the dining room. We don't do enough multiple way switching in houses for modern day living
Nothing like good old school bread and butter work for I don't know if y'all call it tea and Crumpet work LOL :-) :-)
😂👍
@@artisanelectrics He "doesn't do carbs" according to a previous video. Means he misses out on crumpet. Ahem.
Hi, An interesting video as ever but like myself don't care to much for final ring circuits so l am surprised that you don't install 32A radial circuits using 4mm sq twin & earth cable if not only in the kitchen and utility areas of the rewire? Anyway keep up the good work and stay safe.
Thanks yeah that can be a good option!
Have you seen the price of 4mm twin, it's crazy how much it is, it's a lot more than a drum of 2.5 and 1.5, and there's more pvc in those two drums.
Personally I don't have any issue with ring circuits, it's just the idiots that haven't got a clue, that mess that circuit up.
@@acelectricalsecurity have you seen how much he charges 😂 I’m sure he can lose 25m of 4mm in the price that’s got to be at least 30 quid..versus the 20quid of the 2.5....so an extra tenner ?
@@Marco-mg9tv I heard what people say he's charging, but unfortunately he's not the one footing the bill, obviously he can afford it, just like most of us can, but the customer is picking up the tab at the end of the day
@@acelectricalsecurity it’s a silly point to make. Maybe 2.5mm is half the price or whatever but you need twice as much and more labour so your argument kind of falls flat on its face.
Curious to know who you get in for your asbestos testing. Do you have a regular contact/company or whoever is available in time for the job?
We just use a local company if they are available
make more informative videos like this
Thanks for your great videos! Very interesting how you handle electrical installations in the UK. Best wishes from Germany :-)
Thanks
Is that bedroom carpet from the shinning Hotel lol
Free Colldge
Are you fitting smoke/heat/CO2 detectors on a separate circuit?
Yeah we are
Yeah I just started watching the video and noticed the child didn't have it on his circuit list 😉
CO carbon monoxide
4:00 - I like their idea, speccing the house for new build and EV should be important should they ever sell as its future proofed for later developments
Is there a time frame on a house that needs to be rewired. I bought a home and it was built in the 50s will it need to be rewired. Even the electrics are all good. I have been advised that I will need to get a new fuse box.
Hi Jordan just a question to ask you. Your doing a good video again. I was interested in the way your mixing your lighting circuit up and down on the 2 gang switch I always put my circuits separated due to mixed supplies at the back of one lighting back box. But keep the videos coming your doing a really good job. Always watching. Also you've got your time scale about wright for the rewire
Thanks! Still not finished... it took longer than expected
You're right mate. There's supposed to be signage advising theres two circuits at an accessory or enclosure but who does that on a domestic dwelling (no one). This is something in the industry which is ignored with the recommendation for two separate lighting circuits on a stairwell taking preference. Like I say, what u do is correct in my opinion. Separate back box and separate 1 gang 2 way for up and down, just never gets done like that.
@@Daniells1982 I thought that was just a recommendation if the voltage between circuits would be 415? Also you should test for dead for messing around anyway
@@lewis94uk regulation 514.11.1. A notice shall be fixed where live parts are not capable of being isolated by a single device. Contentious one I know and it never happens. Comes down to interpretation I suppose and you're right, safe isolation goes without saying.
Hi Jordan. Pricing an job that will be done by others , is never easy. But if you know how each operative works you can have a pretty good guess. And definitely make it clear that any unforeseen problems must be covered by the client, but in the case of a total rewire this is less likely. And ultimately the guess you make is based on experience. The materials used should be relatively easy to work out, and a wholesaler should be able to give you a costing . But anyone new to pricing work will soon realise their not charging enough, and the same goes for charging to much ie no work . In all honesty I think it’s the customer who has the hardest job . Deciding the right person for the job in the first place. If you’re honest, reliable, and do good quality work. Your reputation will be what gets you the work in the long run . So to all you budding sparks Go For it 😄👍
Great comment thanks!
NOTHING'S as good as a Hilti chaser 😁
Thats a lot of people for rather simple rewire
Watching this as I'm about to purchase a property which jas unexpectedly failed its EICR, so trying to understand what a full rewire actually entails!
I ❤️ wills Electrical services TH-cam channel ❤️❤️❤️ oi oiii up the blues 💙💙💙💙
It’s not unusual to see a triple pole isolator for a boiler, line, switch line, and neutral. Another great vid while the pubs closed.
For a student how would you simply explain the places you may find asbestos. I am new to this - not electrics but not very knowledged in the asbestos area. Any info would be great and again great video :)
He should really own a chaser.
Hey Jordan- great video. Quick question - what options will be available for houses with 2 or 3 electric cars ( in future ) ? Can we have multiple charger points ?
You would have to have some kind of load balancing system
@@artisanelectrics worries me how it will work as we all move to electric - we currently have 3 petrol cars and many houses have 2 or 3 cars - not sure how all can be charged each night !
The national grid will explode soon 😂😂 and the tansport and energy mp's will be 🤐🤐🤐🤕🤕 when they realise that we are not geared up to overload the NG
Well your basically screwed, unless they give us an extra phase, although as the UK can only just cope with the current demand that may not happen.
As, Scotty used to say, you Cana change the laws of physics.
Had cut out replaced here,DNO (Western Power) fitted 80A fuse, but also offer a free upgrade for 3 phase 3x 80A. So a phase for the EV charger, a phase for the heat pump/2nd charger,etc, & one for the house. See Efixx for more details: th-cam.com/video/D5wn5Eju3_Y/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgwTD3eMyPHVMMVIoH14AaABAg.9IPsnYW9fJ99I_ZuThUxMq
Could you still do ring main socket circuits but just keep to 20A breaker? Then can be increased in the future if greater demand required in particular location. Not much extra cost.
What will that cost ? All in.
Nice
👍👍👍🙌
Why don't you own your own chasing tool, you shouldn't have to rent a dodgy one like that
Working on it... we don’t do many rewires and I don’t have storage space so never made sense to own one before
I was thinking what kind of spark doesn't own one, im a Diy'er and I have one! Albeit a cheapy titan job from screwfix, great tool!
How much did you charge for this job?
Pretty slow bud for a small property like that with that amount of guys.. just my
opinion. Your work man ship is top notch though. 👍
Get better mic. Good video mate.
House rewire is the title but I didn’t learn anything from this video tbh
What do you want ? To learn how to rewire a house 😂
Would enjoy your videos much more if I wasn't bombarded with adverts every few minutes! 🙄
£5500