8:55 you know its funny. In Robert E Howards Conan story red nails, he describes a fight between Valeria and a Tlazitlan warrior. Exactly in that manner. "He could not long keep up that flailing whirlwind. His arm would tire, his wind would fail; he would weaken, falter, and then her blade would slide smoothly into his heart." Basically saying how the warrior would swing wildly while Valeria would parry efficiently and wait to strike. Crazy how even back then they could portray someone with skill as being more reserved, cool and calm.
At least back then the world was not infested with keyboard-samurais and online-NINJAs. Heck, even that black knight from Monty Phython and The Holy Grail knew to halfsword against an armored opponent.
Would I be wrong in proposing that "Even back then" seems like it might be less of a thing than "Even now." Composure in battle has been known to be crucial for millenia and today, your average person has had far less violence in their life. Anyway. Not trying to nitpick, just curious
One of the first things to train in with any weapon is to know where it is, even when it is outside your field of vision. To prevent causing unintended damage to your surroundings, and yourself...
It is satisfying to see in movies when someone swings a sword wildly and it gets caught in branches or other obstacles. One of the BBC movie adaptations of Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, has exactly that happen during a duel, although admittedly both belligerents are inept. One raises their sword for an overhead chop and it gets caught up in a tree.
or when you lose an arm or a hand... or when you get cut and the wound gets infected and since swordfight... help is likely not in yout vicinity. whatever doesn't kill you likely only weakens you for the rest of your life since it rather frequently leaves permanent damage.
As another great hema practioner says "You don't need a lot of force to do lethal damage with a sword." So it makes sense to try to keep the movements tighter
I believe in Sekiro and Nioh weaker human enemies attack with less competent moves than the more dangerous proper warrior ones, it's a very nice detail
Yeah the first couple enemies fall with a single parry or two, as you see them telegraph and scream, overcommitting to their swings while undergripping their swords, only using one hand The second weakest ones wearing straw hats don't go down as quickly and to try to keep their sword steady, attacking with both hands and using headbutts
Make more sparring videos. I miss them. Especially with the more conventional stuff like longswords, messers and sabers. Also, I'd like to see more rapier stuff on your channel, you are always so well informed.
To the point of Big swing vs efficient movement, The Mountain vs The Viper did a pretty good job of that while having it remain very entertaining. Great video Skal.
I found it efficient to move from tight circular movements with your point on target. Circle to linear to circle to linear with sudden double circles or linear movements worked very well and had many people unconsciously shouting, "He's good!" because the attacks were not just fast but "economic". It is also good to remember a sword is not just a chopping implement. Push & drag slides can cause tremendous cuts against unarmored flesh - just try with a good kitchen knife against meat. You can deliberately land a weak "cut" just to place it on flesh and rip it back to open a wound. Alternatively, you can "thrust" with the purpose being to lacerate with the cutting edge rather than impale someone - which is a technique seen with curved swords that are generally not optimized for stabbing.
It's been a pleasure watching you over the years good sir. You have, and demonstrate, so much experience and control that it's easily visible and understandable to anyone who has tried to swing a blade at a target... meaning, I can actually see and appreciate when you're using "movie motion," "full strength strikes," "controlled full strikes," and "arms/shoulders" only. I'm a very ol' gal now, and I can't help but marvel at how much your content would've been worth MORE than pure gold in the late 90s, early 2000s. Even though the archeological reconstruction remains an ongoing venture, the sheer volume of *TREMENDOUSLY GOOD* historical resources and interpretations for "HEMA" today compared to that ancient wasteland of poor translations, Highlander Conan "katana's are perfect just use what you got European-shaped and remember, you're a black belt in karate..." An'way, waitin' for my second hip replacement. It's been a pleasure showing occu-physical therapists exactly how many/what muscles you engage with European longsword, I... slump knowing how my autoimmune illness and age have removed me from the field. I am now a scholar, and I hope to be an accumulator of further research and resources for the rest of the community as well as any who appreciate martial arts and fitness no matter their age. Even hope and continue to work on a form of longsword floryshes that are spiritual successors of the many Tai Chi sword techniques from the great history that remains China. I yearn to move again. Skalligrim, doubt you'll ever see this comment, but again, thank you so much. You've been a light to me in the darkness of my last decade that has kept me informed, entertained, and entwined to my deep love of European swordplay. I wish you and your family the deepest love and best always, and again. Thank you.
Great topic. Same with Bruce Lee's JKD, it is not what you see in the movies. The high kicks just showed up better in the movies than closer/lower kicks. Same with sticks and knives, keep it close. Follow the instructions on a Claymore: "Front Towards Enemy"
In the old martial arts flicks, the actors were all truly trained and it looks so funny because they had to slow down so much for the camera. The entire movie was basically a slow as fuck training session for them lol
This makes me think of the film 'The Duelists'. The movement is fast and subtle and as a result it's hard to follow what's happening. But it also makes it fell more real and intense.
I teach a Sogobudo style of martial arts. One of the things that supports your argument is that, in Iaido, you will see folks way overswing on the draw and leave themselves open. Should they miss on that cut, it would most likely be a deadly mistake. We teach that on the draw, you only draw as a sort of block / sheild from forward mostion that is diaganol across your opponent’s path. The subsequent cut is tthe actual strike. The other benefit of keeping this, “Tight,” is that it makes your opponent hesitate, and at the same time draws them in so they are thus vulnerable to the following cut. I also teach Wing Chun and one of the main principles is economy of motion. Which also ties in to this. One more thing, I am a combat vet and what I teach my students is filtered through those experiences. I call it Marial Science not arts. The way you break this down is excellent and right on the money. You are so correct in this, and I agree with almost 99% of what you say.
@@swayback7375 I am biased to the way I learned. Tameshigiri is important (Cutting) because it teaches you to hold the blade on the same plane as the cut you are making - like golf. Don’t heep the head of the club perndicular to the path of the strikem you will slice. In the case of cutting, your edge will get stuck in the cut. I inferred from something he said that cutting may not be important, or maybe as important as it is held to be. There are just some very minor things. I have been a SCAdian and participant in Dagerhir. I love that world. there are just a few very minor things. So, maybe 98% -99%
This is where experience and wisdom come in much handier than elitism. Instead of lording a specific regimen and/or "verified equipment" in the art of swinging a sword; you boil it down to essentials. Much like playing a guitar; wasted movement is bad. Overexertion is bad. People could argue that these are two concepts that have virtually nothing in common...until they realize that there is an "art" to picking up a bird egg just as there is to swinging a hammer.
That is exactly my issue with Warden character in For Honor(not mentioning oversized sword and whatever else) He is supposed to be a skilled warrior, forged in battles, but his telegraphed overswings, spins and launchings of his body around really make him seem like an undertrained newbie
@@Fenrir-Vidar true but it's first and foremost a pvp fighting game. realistic techniques are hard to react irl, factor in ping it would be impossible in a lot of cases
The final duel in Rob Roy between Tim Roth's very controlled style with added sadism and Liam Neeson's wilder style is a good example of your point as to how this can be used narratively.
I'll have you know my "pummel throw and run" technique is tighter than my sphincter in the many regular sword fights I find myself in on a day-to-day basis
I’ve always loved your videos on technique, comparing to unrealistic settings like video games and movies. There is a time and place for dramatic, irregular fights, but I agree it would be nice to see more accurate and skilled displays of fighting.
John Musgrave Waite's book on saber stresses this too. ensuring minimal windup and telegraph before cuts, noting that faster is better than stronger in a duel.
Just joined a HEMA club in my city and had my first ever class on monday, we did some basic drills and then a short sparring session, oh my atacking the opponent and not the blade, though I knew it was to be done, was harder to actually pull off in the moment, it's like a weird reflex that I'm going to have to get used to ignoring for a while. For now, it was amazing and I wanted to say thanks for introducing me to this so many years ago, I can finally do it.
I would imagine sword fighting is similar to hand to hand combat in not projecting as well as the follow through being critical to ensure contact without giving away your intention of action.
Totally agree with this. When doing duels with same weapons I found that keeping my movements small was what helped me with wins. That being said, if a shield or a spear comes into play then things get more difficult
This advices apply also to non--swordbased martial arts as well. E.g., even when training kata in karate, we are told to move from the possition as is to the next possition. No need to "load the punch" for example any further which would mean a slower punch. We are also taught to keep the arms tight to protect the body when executing a technique. Besides, the closest you arms are to your body, the better you can use your strength if you are trying to grapple.
Aww the sparring scenes got me nostalgic for those videos. I love the recent content but I miss the fights too. Sorry for the half compliment lol. I'm happy with just about any upload on here
One thing I find very fascinating when it comes to medieval and before combat on say a battlefield, skirmish, duels etc is that the fighting itself must have been something we just can't replicate today. In such a moment your life and possibly your friends lives are in constant danger most people do not want to die it's really that simple. I'd imagine people in general would fight more defensively to avoid getting hit. Even if you have armor you're never invulnerable. More experienced and trained fighters would perhaps fight more aggressively. That's why watching people duel today where they're just swinging at each other without a fear in the world, I take it with a pinch of salt. It's just something that I doubt would really happen if their lives were on the line. Of course you have less trained people like possibly farmers and the likes but still I can bet you they do NOT want to die and will fight accordingly.
Except the only people like farmers didn't use Swords cause how expensive they were. Infact the most common weapon back then for poor folks like farmers and such was the Spear or Axe, even Bows, swords were more commonly used by those who were higher standing in military rank, nobles or could afford it. Buying a sword back then was like buying a house in our current Era. And no knights and swordsman weren't very aggressive while fighting, brutal? Yes but not very aggressive, aggressive fighting would lead to a quicker death. Probably more common amongst squires and such.
While it is generally true that folks are less aggressive when fighting in earnest, as Joseph Swetnam explicitly wrote in the early 17th century, we have a number of accounts of historical duels where one or both combatants attacked recklessly. Because of anger & honor culture, medieval & Renaissance Europeans sometimes threw caution to the wind.
@@Thunor93 What period are you talking about? At least by the 14th century, swords weren't that expensive in Europe & most soldiers & some civilians had one. By the early 17th century, Samuel Purchase listed as a sword as the same price as two skillets. There's nothing unreasonable about a farmer having a sword by the late medieval period.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 okay first off you apparently have no idea what you are talking about as the 17tg century is not part of the late Medieval Era, your off by a century. Secondly in the 14th century no civilians did not own swords, if they rose through the ranks then sure they would receive a sword as a sign of honour service and loyalty to their kingdom, though that is very uncommon to happen and even then those swords weren't really good quality. Also swords weren't really used alot on the battle field especially during the 12th century cause of plate armour and such, infact the most common weapons used were bows, Spears, axes and war hammers and later on better polearms and weapons to deal with armoured enemies, swords weren't really used often in combat except against the common foot soldier who didnt really wear good quality armour. Later on common civilians would wear chainmail but they didnt really wear full plate armour. Swords didnt really start taking off for poor folk until around the 16th century with cheaper swords like the Cutlass, rapiers, sword swords and such and even then they weren't cheap, two skillets? Not sure where you got that idea but the actual price in the 16th to 17th century for a sword was the same as a Horse, poor quality sword would be about as much as a mule, it was better to have that money for food for their families, the military would provide poor quality weapons for commoners for combat like Spears and such, rarely did one use a sword and it would be very poor quality. For instance in england the go to weapon for commoners was primarily the Bow and Spear. Again swords weren't really used in combat alot, it was uncommon and mainly was used by those of a higher class. Besides the spear was the best weapon on combat, knights got killed by commoners so much that it had to become a law where knights couldn't be killed but ransomed, if a commoner killed a knight or a king in combat it didnt really end well for said commoner. Again the go to weapon was the spear for the common folk... Simple as that.
for foil fencing I was always taught to draw the letter U and C as small as possible as a drill. great for getting an inside advantage as quickly as possible.
Thanks as usual Skal for the great content! I am a big fan of videogames and I think having a healthy mix of real life inspiration and more fantasy style inspiration is important for many games esspecially any game that has melee combat and doubly so if its only medieval style combat in said fantasy games. The showing of skill of a bad guy or good guy in games is also a common troupe too. So having a swordsman out perform a weaker opponent is done a lot! So they might as well show how much they are in control of the moment with skill and knowledge of fighting.
I really appreciate these videos, this absolutely fits with a main character I’m writing. He is very skilled and experienced, usually up against people much less so who he often doesn’t necessarily want to kill. I’m already familiar with keeping movements not overextended, but this gives a better angle and point of reference for writing my character. Thanks!
@@Tombringer I do hema for 3 years, plus more 4 years of olimpic fencing. Montante is the superior weapon. above all others. it give a huge advantage to the wielder
button mashing in video games its better to tighten the presses for faster more consistent output. i say this as an example to show that this concept can be advice applicable outside of just melee combat. when you hear stuff like this, keep it in your mind and think about if it can be used in any area of your life.
Nearly every unarmed martial art movie does this especially when its one guy fighting multiple opponents. You have the bad guy do super big attack that is usually totally unrealistic and the good guy will do a more tight and efficient movements and beat them. I don't know why this isn't done as well in weapon fight scenes. But the tighter movements is very important in not only HEMA or realistic sword fighting but in sport weapons like Olympic fencing or in larping. In those 2 aspects you need little to no force added in your strikes so speed and efficiency is way more important than power. In larp its kind of funny because when you're playing an orc or an ogre those big power swings work against you even more. Rawr! I'm big strong giant! *tap tap tap*
something I really liked about a lot of weapons in Elden Ring is that for chargeable "heavy" attacks, instead of it being a case of "building power for a huge obvious attack", instead the character gets into a stance and prepares to deliver a quick and precise attack. So the attack is much closer to an effective attack in real life combat, but it's still telegraphed and visually clear from a third person perspective because the character has to go from neutral stance>attack stance>attack. It's kind of an ingenious way to take advantage of the fact that significant input delay is considered acceptable and even expected by players for heavy attacks, and that delay is the perfect window in which to put more granular animation details. In my opinion the most impressive examples of this in the game are the Carian Knight's Sword and Miquellan Knight's Sword, the first of which uses a high horizontal guard that transitions into a cut, and the second which uses what I believe is a "Fool's Guard" (sword lowered to waist and pointing horizontally away from the body) before dashing forward into a quick slash.
From an oriental martial arts practitioner view this is really interesting. Gives me extra perspective even if the moves are not exactly the same (reach for example changes a bit the objective of the movements)
Good observation. I want to add that, regarding stage combat, the extent of the movement depends very much on how far away the audience is. You want your movements to be, well, legible for the audience, so there are only so many instances you can use tight movement. On camera, in close-ups, it makes sense to be as precise as possible, whereas, as the camera goes further away, you need to articulate a bit grander. You can compare it to the spoken word in the theater. The way you use your voice depends so much on how close the audience is. in either discipline, you don't want to mumble, you want the audience to follow what you are saying. Another good use of larger movement in choreography is to show how exhausted a fighter is. Bill Hobbs used that in the saber fight in "The Duellists". Cheers from a former stage combat teacher/choreographer and HEMA enthusiast!
for some reason i am reminded of the contrast between most rpgs like skyrim where you slaughter everything in your environment with relative ease, and then you run into your first bunch of cumans in kingdom come deliverance
I've heard it said so many times that MMA doesn't look 'real' because they don't seem to put any force into their blows, and it barely looks like they're hitting each other at all. Exact same situation, what's missing from an MMA punch is the overswing and the telegraphing, because that's just not good form in actual combat.
You really should make time to watch the rest of the John Wick series. They go to great lengths to make sure that the story line never gets in the way of the fight scenes.
It's like the fight between Griffit and Guts Berzerk, guts used brute forsce with his giant sword, weile griffit who was physically weacer, would use skill and win. Great physical abilities against skill, this is something that repears inself a lot in the anime/manga ''Bucky'' and anime/manga in general. but there is a limit to what a skill person, can beat opponent stronger and faster than him, this is hinted in Bucky.
Interesting stuff! As for choreography, I'm in the middle ground here. I appreciate showy moves, and I believe they could symbolise confidence of a protagonist, in a way similar to riding into battle with an open visier... At the same time, I hate when it gets too "cartoonish," and I really detest when mastery of a "super-hero" is presented by surrounding him with people drunk or otherwise poisoned apparently, because they are just barely aware of what's going on and keep walking towards the "hero" in the most sheepish way possible, to just get butchered... In a scene from the old Polish "Potop" (Deluge) movie (and to a greater degree in the book) we learn that the better fencer, Wołodyjowski, was mostly making tiny, "barely visible" movements, while his opponent Kmicic was brandishing his sabre like a peasant would operate a flail... (in the words of Wołodyjowski himself, explained rather than translated) But then again, it all depends on circumstances, like fighting with groups, armoured opponents, a need to impress your king, or scare a group of villains... etc. Cheers!
...and from something that was pointed out in one kobudo channel out there: let your swing end with your point facing the opponent's center. It makes every cut automatically into a threat of a thrust. You're not fighting a tatami mat, you only need a tap with just the right amount of oomph, and it will cut.
I think something like Sifu is also a neat example of this concept of displaying skill through efficiency. Your character has very quick and fairly efficient-looking movements and actions while enemies (especially the earlier ones in the streets and the club) have way more exaggerated attacks with long windup and recovery animations. It's obviously part of the readability in a fight against multiple opponents, and definitely helps you avoid and block attacks with ease. In fact, some of their moves, like jumping haymakers, front kicks, and the like, are practically copy-pasted out of Absolver, where _every_ move is balanced around the one-on-one pvp duel, so they're _all_ fairly exaggerated as a matter of readability on both sides.
'Big, slow, wild movements' might also be a way to convey to the audience that the character had a few drinks (and then a few more) before the duel, whereas the more precise fighter is also more sober, or completely sober.
Nice one. Greetings from an old Patreon supporter in Spain, now under a different YT user name. What's it been, 6-7 years? Glad the channel seems to be doing great.
interesting thing you mention is how you can use precise movements to make a character seem more skilled and better trained. honestly, I try to give characters a certain "Feel" and 2 notable examples based on the saying " A sword is not a weapon, but an extension of yourself", where one character uses quicker, more trained movements that are precise, and mainly focus on killing someone with as little effort as possible, while the other uses more free flowing attacks that are closer to what people see in media, where his attacks start to less resemble traditional swordfighting and instead resemble unarmed martial arts, with examples like capoeira and muay tie being some close examples of the free flowing style he uses, hence the part ".....but an extension of yourself".
The duel from The Deluge comes to mind as a perfect example, but also (unrealistic as it is) The Princess Bride thanks to their thrust-centric swords. Even if it is mostly Flynning, it works in the context of two experts having a good time mostly playing with each other. Their expertise comes across in how little energy they're spending while they can still complement each other's form, contrasted with Inigo later killing three men with like a parry and three thrusts to the hearts, making them look bumbling and incompetent vy comparison. Also, I appreciate some games and movies (or kenjutsu demos) that keep everything tight until they've scored some disabling hits, then go for a powerful finisher
Yeah, this is the same drills that make Alex Pereira a good boxer basically, he telegraphs almost nothing, he fights almost robotic, still a lot of power in his punches.
I think it's important to remember that a film shows a tale. So when you want a guy to be super skilled, you can show them being cold, stoic, rational, and engaging in skilled moves along with some silly dance to taunt their inferior foe. But if you're showing a desperate battle wherein an act has to be emotional, heated, dramatic, passionate, and intense; you're going to see characters swinging their weapons wildly
Tightening animations (in amplitude and time/frames) would be a great way to show skill progression for characters. You can chain moves faster so better dps and it looks more skillful. Instead of the typical attack speed buff that just makes everything blurry. Would also make a difference between brutish big telegraph enemies and tighter trained ones.
Really important point... In sparing, I made the mistake of sticking my elbow out while attacking from "vom Tag" two days ago. We were only wearing very light fencing jackets, and the elbow is still a bit blue.
A good follow up video is how telegraphed movies can be used as faints ... something I learned mildly hard when I was being told not to spar and costed me an regional match (oh big deal)
You should watch the other three John Wicks :P hell, can confirm, it's super fun to watch ALL four John Wicks in an afternoon -> evening. Especially with friends and having some food and drinks. Just enjoying a good time.
Still mid-watching but I just wanted to hop on here and say: the thumbnail somehow captured perfectly what is known in most LARPs - tactical fighting vs theatrical fighting😁
I would think that keeping the point infront of you, and not overreaching as you talk about at 3:30, would be very useful if the opponent are larger than you. If the opponent are larger/taller than you, he would outreach you. That would reduce both the distance and time he would require to close in, hit you and step back. If you 'overreach', you may not have the time required to move the blade into an position/guard to threaten the opponent. You may be able to kinda hit him with the edge. However, I do not think that would have any effect even if the opponent only wore simple clothing. The movement would be to small, and at best you might nick the opponent in the side, but nowhere close to stopping him from engaging you. This could might be a fun exercise or experiment. Take two fencers of roughly same level of experience, one shorter and one taller. Then let the shorter one use tighter movements, and the taller one either his/her normal movements or larger movements. That way one might see if it would be easier for the shorter person to somewhat counter the reach advantage the taller person has. I do not know if it is any point in doing this, but I think it could be fun!
The best way to survive a sword fight or any fight is to runaway as fast as you can . If you can't run fast enough or you have something you must protect then use something or anything to shield your body and fight back with something you can throwing at your foe. Keep the distance is a key.
I believe nowadays getting into a sword fight would be much harder than surviving one.
Swords feature in the news more when it comes to home invasions. However, in the UK, machetes are often the choice of gangs.
Depends where you live.
Unless you live in the right/wrong parts of London.
The basic concept also applies to unarmed combat. If you make big telegraphed moves, it will be easier for your opponent to counter.
@@michaelblacktreeapplies to combat and even football,everything
8:55 you know its funny. In Robert E Howards Conan story red nails, he describes a fight between Valeria and a Tlazitlan warrior. Exactly in that manner. "He could not long keep up that flailing whirlwind. His arm would tire, his wind would fail; he would weaken, falter, and then her blade would slide smoothly into his heart." Basically saying how the warrior would swing wildly while Valeria would parry efficiently and wait to strike. Crazy how even back then they could portray someone with skill as being more reserved, cool and calm.
Patience in single combat is absolutely a winning strategy.
At least back then the world was not infested with keyboard-samurais and online-NINJAs. Heck, even that black knight from Monty Phython and The Holy Grail knew to halfsword against an armored opponent.
The fact that you mention REH makes you a gigachad! Let the broadswords sing, by Crom!
R.E Howard was an avid boxer. I think because of this, he "gets" martial combat. Cool example.
Would I be wrong in proposing that "Even back then" seems like it might be less of a thing than "Even now." Composure in battle has been known to be crucial for millenia and today, your average person has had far less violence in their life. Anyway. Not trying to nitpick, just curious
Keeping the blade in your field of vision is a good idea. It also helps prevent causing unintended damage to your surroundings.
Retracted guards exist you know
One of the first things to train in with any weapon is to know where it is, even when it is outside your field of vision.
To prevent causing unintended damage to your surroundings, and yourself...
@@alessandrolizzio6338The skill floor for them is much higher you know
It is satisfying to see in movies when someone swings a sword wildly and it gets caught in branches or other obstacles. One of the BBC movie adaptations of Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, has exactly that happen during a duel, although admittedly both belligerents are inept. One raises their sword for an overhead chop and it gets caught up in a tree.
One way: Don't die. You can learn and improve if you don't die. Your run is over when you die.
or when you lose an arm or a hand... or when you get cut and the wound gets infected and since swordfight... help is likely not in yout vicinity. whatever doesn't kill you likely only weakens you for the rest of your life since it rather frequently leaves permanent damage.
Bro is a modern Sun Tzu
Dark Souls style, no extra lives.
No bonfire run.
Never stop not dying.
As another great hema practioner says "You don't need a lot of force to do lethal damage with a sword." So it makes sense to try to keep the movements tighter
I believe in Sekiro and Nioh weaker human enemies attack with less competent moves than the more dangerous proper warrior ones, it's a very nice detail
Yeah the first couple enemies fall with a single parry or two, as you see them telegraph and scream, overcommitting to their swings while undergripping their swords, only using one hand
The second weakest ones wearing straw hats don't go down as quickly and to try to keep their sword steady, attacking with both hands and using headbutts
Make more sparring videos. I miss them. Especially with the more conventional stuff like longswords, messers and sabers. Also, I'd like to see more rapier stuff on your channel, you are always so well informed.
To the point of Big swing vs efficient movement, The Mountain vs The Viper did a pretty good job of that while having it remain very entertaining. Great video Skal.
I found it efficient to move from tight circular movements with your point on target. Circle to linear to circle to linear with sudden double circles or linear movements worked very well and had many people unconsciously shouting, "He's good!" because the attacks were not just fast but "economic".
It is also good to remember a sword is not just a chopping implement. Push & drag slides can cause tremendous cuts against unarmored flesh - just try with a good kitchen knife against meat.
You can deliberately land a weak "cut" just to place it on flesh and rip it back to open a wound.
Alternatively, you can "thrust" with the purpose being to lacerate with the cutting edge rather than impale someone - which is a technique seen with curved swords that are generally not optimized for stabbing.
More like this! You got me into HEMA and you continue to help me with HEMA. RIP BnI Victoria.
It's been a pleasure watching you over the years good sir. You have, and demonstrate, so much experience and control that it's easily visible and understandable to anyone who has tried to swing a blade at a target... meaning, I can actually see and appreciate when you're using "movie motion," "full strength strikes," "controlled full strikes," and "arms/shoulders" only.
I'm a very ol' gal now, and I can't help but marvel at how much your content would've been worth MORE than pure gold in the late 90s, early 2000s.
Even though the archeological reconstruction remains an ongoing venture, the sheer volume of *TREMENDOUSLY GOOD* historical resources and interpretations for "HEMA" today compared to that ancient wasteland of poor translations, Highlander Conan "katana's are perfect just use what you got European-shaped and remember, you're a black belt in karate..."
An'way, waitin' for my second hip replacement. It's been a pleasure showing occu-physical therapists exactly how many/what muscles you engage with European longsword, I... slump knowing how my autoimmune illness and age have removed me from the field.
I am now a scholar, and I hope to be an accumulator of further research and resources for the rest of the community as well as any who appreciate martial arts and fitness no matter their age.
Even hope and continue to work on a form of longsword floryshes that are spiritual successors of the many Tai Chi sword techniques from the great history that remains China. I yearn to move again.
Skalligrim, doubt you'll ever see this comment, but again, thank you so much. You've been a light to me in the darkness of my last decade that has kept me informed, entertained, and entwined to my deep love of European swordplay. I wish you and your family the deepest love and best always, and again. Thank you.
Great topic. Same with Bruce Lee's JKD, it is not what you see in the movies. The high kicks just showed up better in the movies than closer/lower kicks. Same with sticks and knives, keep it close. Follow the instructions on a Claymore: "Front Towards Enemy"
In the old martial arts flicks, the actors were all truly trained and it looks so funny because they had to slow down so much for the camera. The entire movie was basically a slow as fuck training session for them lol
This makes me think of the film 'The Duelists'. The movement is fast and subtle and as a result it's hard to follow what's happening. But it also makes it fell more real and intense.
A stream and a new video in one day. SkallDaddy is spoiling us
I teach a Sogobudo style of martial arts. One of the things that supports your argument is that, in Iaido, you will see folks way overswing on the draw and leave themselves open. Should they miss on that cut, it would most likely be a deadly mistake.
We teach that on the draw, you only draw as a sort of block / sheild from forward mostion that is diaganol across your opponent’s path. The subsequent cut is tthe actual strike. The other benefit of keeping this, “Tight,” is that it makes your opponent hesitate, and at the same time draws them in so they are thus vulnerable to the following cut.
I also teach Wing Chun and one of the main principles is economy of motion. Which also ties in to this.
One more thing, I am a combat vet and what I teach my students is filtered through those experiences. I call it Marial Science not arts. The way you break this down is excellent and right on the money.
You are so correct in this, and I agree with almost 99% of what you say.
So… 97%?
@@swayback7375 I am biased to the way I learned. Tameshigiri is important (Cutting) because it teaches you to hold the blade on the same plane as the cut you are making - like golf. Don’t heep the head of the club perndicular to the path of the strikem you will slice. In the case of cutting, your edge will get stuck in the cut.
I inferred from something he said that cutting may not be important, or maybe as important as it is held to be.
There are just some very minor things. I have been a SCAdian and participant in Dagerhir. I love that world. there are just a few very minor things. So, maybe 98% -99%
Hey Skall, just wanted to say, your a legend! that's all.
For the final point I was hoping you'd bring the "Deluge" sabre duel as example for wide swings versus precise moves.
This is where experience and wisdom come in much handier than elitism. Instead of lording a specific regimen and/or "verified equipment" in the art of swinging a sword; you boil it down to essentials.
Much like playing a guitar; wasted movement is bad. Overexertion is bad. People could argue that these are two concepts that have virtually nothing in common...until they realize that there is an "art" to picking up a bird egg just as there is to swinging a hammer.
I'd love to see more videos like this Skal, thanks for helping me stay alive (in a swordfight)
That is exactly my issue with Warden character in For Honor(not mentioning oversized sword and whatever else)
He is supposed to be a skilled warrior, forged in battles, but his telegraphed overswings, spins and launchings of his body around really make him seem like an undertrained newbie
That’s because it’s a video game and you need a certain amount of telegraphing that would be suicide in real life
Of course
But that alongside other things just makes character less believable for someone who knows swordfighting a bit
@@Fenrir-Vidar true but it's first and foremost a pvp fighting game. realistic techniques are hard to react irl, factor in ping it would be impossible in a lot of cases
The final duel in Rob Roy between Tim Roth's very controlled style with added sadism and Liam Neeson's wilder style is a good example of your point as to how this can be used narratively.
I'll have you know my "pummel throw and run" technique is tighter than my sphincter in the many regular sword fights I find myself in on a day-to-day basis
I’ve always loved your videos on technique, comparing to unrealistic settings like video games and movies. There is a time and place for dramatic, irregular fights, but I agree it would be nice to see more accurate and skilled displays of fighting.
John Musgrave Waite's book on saber stresses this too. ensuring minimal windup and telegraph before cuts, noting that faster is better than stronger in a duel.
Thanks!
awesome video dude, power means little when 4 inches kill (minus armor)
Just joined a HEMA club in my city and had my first ever class on monday, we did some basic drills and then a short sparring session, oh my atacking the opponent and not the blade, though I knew it was to be done, was harder to actually pull off in the moment, it's like a weird reflex that I'm going to have to get used to ignoring for a while. For now, it was amazing and I wanted to say thanks for introducing me to this so many years ago, I can finally do it.
Honestly, playing games in VR shows you this immediately.
You will get absolutely rocked if you use more time than necessary to strike.
I would imagine sword fighting is similar to hand to hand combat in not projecting as well as the follow through being critical to ensure contact without giving away your intention of action.
Growing older, my favorite axiom is: never fight a fair fight. 😅
When I pull out the 10 pounder parrot canon, I always win the sword fight.
Totally agree with this. When doing duels with same weapons I found that keeping my movements small was what helped me with wins. That being said, if a shield or a spear comes into play then things get more difficult
It's so cool to watch you explain this and show it.
The number one rule of surviving a sword fight - do not bring a sword to a gun fight.
Maybe. If the gunslinger is good, then yeah. But a sword fighter who is really good might still win.
This advices apply also to non--swordbased martial arts as well.
E.g., even when training kata in karate, we are told to move from the possition as is to the next possition. No need to "load the punch" for example any further which would mean a slower punch. We are also taught to keep the arms tight to protect the body when executing a technique. Besides, the closest you arms are to your body, the better you can use your strength if you are trying to grapple.
Aww the sparring scenes got me nostalgic for those videos. I love the recent content but I miss the fights too. Sorry for the half compliment lol. I'm happy with just about any upload on here
One thing I find very fascinating when it comes to medieval and before combat on say a battlefield, skirmish, duels etc is that the fighting itself must have been something we just can't replicate today. In such a moment your life and possibly your friends lives are in constant danger most people do not want to die it's really that simple. I'd imagine people in general would fight more defensively to avoid getting hit. Even if you have armor you're never invulnerable. More experienced and trained fighters would perhaps fight more aggressively. That's why watching people duel today where they're just swinging at each other without a fear in the world, I take it with a pinch of salt. It's just something that I doubt would really happen if their lives were on the line. Of course you have less trained people like possibly farmers and the likes but still I can bet you they do NOT want to die and will fight accordingly.
Except the only people like farmers didn't use Swords cause how expensive they were.
Infact the most common weapon back then for poor folks like farmers and such was the Spear or Axe, even Bows, swords were more commonly used by those who were higher standing in military rank, nobles or could afford it.
Buying a sword back then was like buying a house in our current Era.
And no knights and swordsman weren't very aggressive while fighting, brutal? Yes but not very aggressive, aggressive fighting would lead to a quicker death.
Probably more common amongst squires and such.
And that’s why spears were kings of the battlefield. Stay as far as possible and power stacks with the minions in the line lol beautiful
While it is generally true that folks are less aggressive when fighting in earnest, as Joseph Swetnam explicitly wrote in the early 17th century, we have a number of accounts of historical duels where one or both combatants attacked recklessly. Because of anger & honor culture, medieval & Renaissance Europeans sometimes threw caution to the wind.
@@Thunor93 What period are you talking about? At least by the 14th century, swords weren't that expensive in Europe & most soldiers & some civilians had one. By the early 17th century, Samuel Purchase listed as a sword as the same price as two skillets. There's nothing unreasonable about a farmer having a sword by the late medieval period.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 okay first off you apparently have no idea what you are talking about as the 17tg century is not part of the late Medieval Era, your off by a century.
Secondly in the 14th century no civilians did not own swords, if they rose through the ranks then sure they would receive a sword as a sign of honour service and loyalty to their kingdom, though that is very uncommon to happen and even then those swords weren't really good quality.
Also swords weren't really used alot on the battle field especially during the 12th century cause of plate armour and such, infact the most common weapons used were bows, Spears, axes and war hammers and later on better polearms and weapons to deal with armoured enemies, swords weren't really used often in combat except against the common foot soldier who didnt really wear good quality armour.
Later on common civilians would wear chainmail but they didnt really wear full plate armour.
Swords didnt really start taking off for poor folk until around the 16th century with cheaper swords like the Cutlass, rapiers, sword swords and such and even then they weren't cheap, two skillets? Not sure where you got that idea but the actual price in the 16th to 17th century for a sword was the same as a Horse, poor quality sword would be about as much as a mule, it was better to have that money for food for their families, the military would provide poor quality weapons for commoners for combat like Spears and such, rarely did one use a sword and it would be very poor quality.
For instance in england the go to weapon for commoners was primarily the Bow and Spear.
Again swords weren't really used in combat alot, it was uncommon and mainly was used by those of a higher class. Besides the spear was the best weapon on combat, knights got killed by commoners so much that it had to become a law where knights couldn't be killed but ransomed, if a commoner killed a knight or a king in combat it didnt really end well for said commoner.
Again the go to weapon was the spear for the common folk... Simple as that.
Now with this information I will stop dying from sword fights.
This video saved my life last week on 5 occassions working the Door of a Tavern.
I went home with a Wench after each Battle.
for foil fencing I was always taught to draw the letter U and C as small as possible as a drill. great for getting an inside advantage as quickly as possible.
Love your videos Skall, big love from Saskatchewan.
Arabs were absolutely skilled at being tight in swordsmanship
Thank you for an excellent video, this is my favorite kind of content on your channel. And the way you visualised the differencest was really good
Yeah I do agree with your conclusion about choregraphy thanks for the advise
Thanks as usual Skal for the great content!
I am a big fan of videogames and I think having a healthy mix of real life inspiration and more fantasy style inspiration is important for many games esspecially any game that has melee combat and doubly so if its only medieval style combat in said fantasy games.
The showing of skill of a bad guy or good guy in games is also a common troupe too. So having a swordsman out perform a weaker opponent is done a lot! So they might as well show how much they are in control of the moment with skill and knowledge of fighting.
How to win a sword fight: keep it tight, but keep your pommel loose!
I really appreciate these videos, this absolutely fits with a main character I’m writing. He is very skilled and experienced, usually up against people much less so who he often doesn’t necessarily want to kill. I’m already familiar with keeping movements not overextended, but this gives a better angle and point of reference for writing my character. Thanks!
How to survive a sword fight:
Bring a montante, noone can beat a montante
@@Tombringer I do hema for 3 years, plus more 4 years of olimpic fencing.
Montante is the superior weapon. above all others. it give a huge advantage to the wielder
you should definitely watch the rest of the john wick movies, the choreography is just as good throughout the entire series
Outstanding dissertation!
Thanks
button mashing in video games its better to tighten the presses for faster more consistent output. i say this as an example to show that this concept can be advice applicable outside of just melee combat. when you hear stuff like this, keep it in your mind and think about if it can be used in any area of your life.
Nearly every unarmed martial art movie does this especially when its one guy fighting multiple opponents. You have the bad guy do super big attack that is usually totally unrealistic and the good guy will do a more tight and efficient movements and beat them. I don't know why this isn't done as well in weapon fight scenes.
But the tighter movements is very important in not only HEMA or realistic sword fighting but in sport weapons like Olympic fencing or in larping. In those 2 aspects you need little to no force added in your strikes so speed and efficiency is way more important than power. In larp its kind of funny because when you're playing an orc or an ogre those big power swings work against you even more. Rawr! I'm big strong giant! *tap tap tap*
something I really liked about a lot of weapons in Elden Ring is that for chargeable "heavy" attacks, instead of it being a case of "building power for a huge obvious attack", instead the character gets into a stance and prepares to deliver a quick and precise attack.
So the attack is much closer to an effective attack in real life combat, but it's still telegraphed and visually clear from a third person perspective because the character has to go from neutral stance>attack stance>attack.
It's kind of an ingenious way to take advantage of the fact that significant input delay is considered acceptable and even expected by players for heavy attacks, and that delay is the perfect window in which to put more granular animation details.
In my opinion the most impressive examples of this in the game are the Carian Knight's Sword and Miquellan Knight's Sword, the first of which uses a high horizontal guard that transitions into a cut, and the second which uses what I believe is a "Fool's Guard" (sword lowered to waist and pointing horizontally away from the body) before dashing forward into a quick slash.
I have been daying we need a Wick esque medieval swordfighting movie with hema based choreography for a while now.
From an oriental martial arts practitioner view this is really interesting. Gives me extra perspective even if the moves are not exactly the same (reach for example changes a bit the objective of the movements)
Thanks, Skall, now I will survive the swordfight.
With the power strikes, nerve, tendon, and muscle and even broken bone damage can happen without even cutting through the Gambeson or Brigandine.
My wrists learned a painful lesson that day
Good observation.
I want to add that, regarding stage combat, the extent of the movement depends very much on how far away the audience is. You want your movements to be, well, legible for the audience, so there are only so many instances you can use tight movement. On camera, in close-ups, it makes sense to be as precise as possible, whereas, as the camera goes further away, you need to articulate a bit grander.
You can compare it to the spoken word in the theater. The way you use your voice depends so much on how close the audience is.
in either discipline, you don't want to mumble, you want the audience to follow what you are saying.
Another good use of larger movement in choreography is to show how exhausted a fighter is. Bill Hobbs used that in the saber fight in "The Duellists".
Cheers from a former stage combat teacher/choreographer and HEMA enthusiast!
Great video 😊
This is good tennis advice for a double handed backhand
I enjoy and learn a lot from videos like this one. Please make if you can. 👍🏻
for some reason i am reminded of the contrast between most rpgs like skyrim where you slaughter everything in your environment with relative ease, and then you run into your first bunch of cumans in kingdom come deliverance
I've heard it said so many times that MMA doesn't look 'real' because they don't seem to put any force into their blows, and it barely looks like they're hitting each other at all.
Exact same situation, what's missing from an MMA punch is the overswing and the telegraphing, because that's just not good form in actual combat.
You really should make time to watch the rest of the John Wick series. They go to great lengths to make sure that the story line never gets in the way of the fight scenes.
good for you man its paying off i can see you have lost weight. been two months since i got to watch.
Awesome video! definitely sending this to my combat group
It's like the fight between Griffit and Guts Berzerk, guts used brute forsce with his giant sword, weile griffit who was physically weacer,
would use skill and win.
Great physical abilities against skill, this is something that repears inself a lot in the anime/manga ''Bucky'' and anime/manga in general. but there is a limit to what a skill person, can beat opponent stronger and faster than him, this is hinted in Bucky.
Interesting stuff! As for choreography, I'm in the middle ground here. I appreciate showy moves, and I believe they could symbolise confidence of a protagonist, in a way similar to riding into battle with an open visier...
At the same time, I hate when it gets too "cartoonish," and I really detest when mastery of a "super-hero" is presented by surrounding him with people drunk or otherwise poisoned apparently, because they are just barely aware of what's going on and keep walking towards the "hero" in the most sheepish way possible, to just get butchered...
In a scene from the old Polish "Potop" (Deluge) movie (and to a greater degree in the book) we learn that the better fencer, Wołodyjowski, was mostly making tiny, "barely visible" movements, while his opponent Kmicic was brandishing his sabre like a peasant would operate a flail... (in the words of Wołodyjowski himself, explained rather than translated)
But then again, it all depends on circumstances, like fighting with groups, armoured opponents, a need to impress your king, or scare a group of villains... etc.
Cheers!
...and from something that was pointed out in one kobudo channel out there: let your swing end with your point facing the opponent's center.
It makes every cut automatically into a threat of a thrust. You're not fighting a tatami mat, you only need a tap with just the right amount of oomph, and it will cut.
you have said the absolute truth
I like the jokes here :) I really enjoy a good realistic swords (or another non-firing weapon type) fight, it allows me to deep into the plot better
Insult sword fighting in Monkey Island
Usually in games, enemy attacks need to be hugely telegraphed for the player to be able to react to them.
I think something like Sifu is also a neat example of this concept of displaying skill through efficiency. Your character has very quick and fairly efficient-looking movements and actions while enemies (especially the earlier ones in the streets and the club) have way more exaggerated attacks with long windup and recovery animations. It's obviously part of the readability in a fight against multiple opponents, and definitely helps you avoid and block attacks with ease. In fact, some of their moves, like jumping haymakers, front kicks, and the like, are practically copy-pasted out of Absolver, where _every_ move is balanced around the one-on-one pvp duel, so they're _all_ fairly exaggerated as a matter of readability on both sides.
'Big, slow, wild movements' might also be a way to convey to the audience that the character had a few drinks (and then a few more) before the duel, whereas the more precise fighter is also more sober, or completely sober.
Nice one. Greetings from an old Patreon supporter in Spain, now under a different YT user name. What's it been, 6-7 years? Glad the channel seems to be doing great.
interesting thing you mention is how you can use precise movements to make a character seem more skilled and better trained.
honestly, I try to give characters a certain "Feel" and 2 notable examples based on the saying " A sword is not a weapon, but an extension of yourself", where one character uses quicker, more trained movements that are precise, and mainly focus on killing someone with as little effort as possible, while the other uses more free flowing attacks that are closer to what people see in media, where his attacks start to less resemble traditional swordfighting and instead resemble unarmed martial arts, with examples like capoeira and muay tie being some close examples of the free flowing style he uses, hence the part ".....but an extension of yourself".
The duel from The Deluge comes to mind as a perfect example, but also (unrealistic as it is) The Princess Bride thanks to their thrust-centric swords. Even if it is mostly Flynning, it works in the context of two experts having a good time mostly playing with each other. Their expertise comes across in how little energy they're spending while they can still complement each other's form, contrasted with Inigo later killing three men with like a parry and three thrusts to the hearts, making them look bumbling and incompetent vy comparison.
Also, I appreciate some games and movies (or kenjutsu demos) that keep everything tight until they've scored some disabling hits, then go for a powerful finisher
Love this kind of video!
Yeah, this is the same drills that make Alex Pereira a good boxer basically, he telegraphs almost nothing, he fights almost robotic, still a lot of power in his punches.
My best advice? Pocket sand. RIP Rusty Shackleford.
I think it's important to remember that a film shows a tale. So when you want a guy to be super skilled, you can show them being cold, stoic, rational, and engaging in skilled moves along with some silly dance to taunt their inferior foe. But if you're showing a desperate battle wherein an act has to be emotional, heated, dramatic, passionate, and intense; you're going to see characters swinging their weapons wildly
Tightening animations (in amplitude and time/frames) would be a great way to show skill progression for characters. You can chain moves faster so better dps and it looks more skillful. Instead of the typical attack speed buff that just makes everything blurry.
Would also make a difference between brutish big telegraph enemies and tighter trained ones.
I really enjoyed this video. Any idea how I could learn more about this subject in the US?
Wish my great great great great great great great great grandpa saw this :(
Really important point... In sparing, I made the mistake of sticking my elbow out while attacking from "vom Tag" two days ago. We were only wearing very light fencing jackets, and the elbow is still a bit blue.
Another thing that's worth mentioning, IMO, is even an ineffective hit still messes with your opponent's mind to a degree.
Is the Alexandria becoming a keeper for you?
Love the video and the tips to help with my technique
A good follow up video is how telegraphed movies can be used as faints ... something I learned mildly hard when I was being told not to spar and costed me an regional match (oh big deal)
Luckily most people aren't pros and would treat a sword duel like a bar room brawl with blades or whatever they saw in Star Wars.
A side by side comparison would be nice to see rather than second to second , maybe include slow mo to really emphasize the technics you mentioned
You should watch the other three John Wicks :P hell, can confirm, it's super fun to watch ALL four John Wicks in an afternoon -> evening. Especially with friends and having some food and drinks. Just enjoying a good time.
Still mid-watching but I just wanted to hop on here and say: the thumbnail somehow captured perfectly what is known in most LARPs - tactical fighting vs theatrical fighting😁
algorithm comment: go go cool video much love :)
My personal advice is: Don't get in a sword fight.
I would think that keeping the point infront of you, and not overreaching as you talk about at 3:30, would be very useful if the opponent are larger than you. If the opponent are larger/taller than you, he would outreach you. That would reduce both the distance and time he would require to close in, hit you and step back. If you 'overreach', you may not have the time required to move the blade into an position/guard to threaten the opponent. You may be able to kinda hit him with the edge. However, I do not think that would have any effect even if the opponent only wore simple clothing. The movement would be to small, and at best you might nick the opponent in the side, but nowhere close to stopping him from engaging you.
This could might be a fun exercise or experiment. Take two fencers of roughly same level of experience, one shorter and one taller. Then let the shorter one use tighter movements, and the taller one either his/her normal movements or larger movements. That way one might see if it would be easier for the shorter person to somewhat counter the reach advantage the taller person has. I do not know if it is any point in doing this, but I think it could be fun!
The best way to survive a sword fight or any fight is to runaway as fast as you can . If you can't run fast enough or you have something you must protect then use something or anything to shield your body and fight back with something you can throwing at your foe. Keep the distance is a key.
Great video
Well said
efficiency is key in survival