I'm a wrecker driver and the trucks I'm towing in weekly are all trucks with DEF. These things are so unreliable everything from 2014 to 2021 it's the same old story DEF pumps to sensors and replacing the ECM on these trucks. I'm not saying I don't tow older trucks but very rarely and when I do it's for water pumps or air dryers, alternators and they're only down for a day. Where these new trucks are down for multiple days or even a week or two. My cost to come out and tow your rig off the road ranges from $700.00- $1500.00 and I've towed the same drivers and truck in multiple times over the months. So where has your fuel savings gone? This is just my experience and wanted to share.
@@larsradtke4097 Yep, many of them do extended oil changes like the manufacturer states, which is insane, old or new truck, the service intervals are the same depending on conditions. So, service every 10,000 to 18,000 miles, not 30,000 or 50,000! That EPA truck produces tons of soot, and what is not burned and blown out the exhaust collects in the motor, you may as well just pour sand in the crankcase, because that is all the soot does, it grinds down the internal parts because it is not being removed and is left to accumulate. That soot gets in the sensors, which are rarely if ever changed, even after the truck is towed to the dealer where they install a $6000 turbo when all the guy needed was an $85 intake manifold pressure sensor or the $100 exhaust back pressure sensor, or more than likely BOTH sensors replaced. And he could change these in the parking lot. $6000 and a truck still in limp mode, or $200 and the truck runs down the road? Same with the DPF/DOC systems, they have to be removed and cleaned periodically, the same with the SCR system and the fuel doser system. If you are going to own one of these trucks, you need to know the systems and how to drive one, do not lug the motors! Anything under 1500 rpm under load and you are abusing the motor, beating the liners out of the block. 1600 to 1900 rpm under load, and learn how to downshift. I could go on and on, but few if any ever listen, "I got a warranty"... Big whoop, you will be out of business in a few months when these systems start to fail. A few hundred bucks and elbow grease, not covered under warranty vs the tens of thousands of dollars the shop will cost you. I like my way better.
Same with my 2004 W9 and it depends if I’m trucking in the south or west coast. I’ve never spend 6k on fuel in one month even when I run west coast, his numbers are BS
@@DB7GamingSimulator much better than new trucks and he forgot he did a video on one of his drivers who unlocked the truck and was getting 5.5 mpg in a so called aero truck but they guy spent more in fuel than I do and I have to idle if it’s too cold or hot
Been in trucking 45 years, and in my opinion DEF and aftertreat is killing trucking. My 2015 cumins at 425k miles went crazy with codes. 6 weeks and $20k later, 2 filter cleanings, 7th injector replaced, and almost every sensor replaced, as well as egr and cooler, I get it back. 5 miles down the road, warning lights again. This guy's company is probably getting rid of trucks between 350 and375k miles before things go bad. Cost of repairs and down time are the killers. Keep your old truck, rebuild it, repaint it, redo the inside and keep on trucking.
I can say that I drive day cab Volvos and they are getting 8.5 Mpg (2015's to 2019's) and over 9 mpg on the 2020 and newer. I have had 0 issues with them and drive over 2k miles a week. I rarely here of the breaking down. the 2015''s all have well over 1 million miles on them. They are however very very well maintained.
Why lease a old rust bucket Pete or kw my step dad though is Peter built was the best thang ever broken down all the time bering going out dirty has hell grease every where plus his old dodge crap
so its 50k for a 07 pete that can be rebuilt and last 20 more years or buy a new truck that is cheaper to throw away every few years and keep paying a new truck payment long after the pete is payed off. this guy is missing a HUGE part of the equation in this video. its not my opinion that its cheaper to throw new trucks away its what most of the mega carriers do and they wont do anything that that costs them unnecessarily.
@@layzboy2011 It's about 8 or 9 years on a new truck, but the cost of running it due to DEF crap exceeds maintaining an older truck inDEFinitely. see what I did there. LOL
And that’s a fact too, $40K to rebuild a 2014 mx13; I can tell you that this 2014 t680 it’s gone for parts already and I’m looking after an older Detroit 60 with no emissions as of right now.
@4:47 it shows run time, the older truck had 62 hours more run time in the same period. fuel cost per hour the older truck is only slightly higher. $27.47 for the newer vs $31.35for the older, so using the run time of the new truck the old truck would have cost $6099.97. Huge cost difference, truly junk.
@@youngpatrick29, lucky you, my one use to do $10 a day, and before you’ll say something is wrong, was like that for all 5+ years I owned it and DEF consumption was the same all the time, when running good, in wintertime was double, also double for every time was something wrong on after treatment system. Also truck was at dealer and my mechanic lots of times and they had everything working properly on truck, including after treatment. Not to mention Canada with its cold winters, frozen DEF pumps and doble, or even more ,price for DEF.
Medium-sized carriers and mega-carriers have back-up trucks during downtime, making emission-trucks usable, where as owner ops(one man show) cannot afford any downtime. Hence the preference for more reliable trucks. Good fuel economy is useless when it is parked at the shop, with large overhead.
Yea I know a guy with two good ol boy square nose Pete's, guess what they're sitting in his yard while he's driving someone else's t680 because those old pieces of shit can't stay out of the shop for any amount of time whatsoever and he went broke
My 7 axle set up, a 1999 379 ultra cab 3406e putting 600+ to the ground with a 13 spd and 3.55 rears, 110 gal tanks x2 grossing about 70K just did a 750+ mile run from outside of tulsa (west) to the other side of cincinnati (north) on 130 gal of diesel, no def. I had a little extra miles and idled quite a bit. No, it's not 7+ mpg, but I was also running up hills at 70mph through MO and on the turnpike in OK running 75. When I came up to a truck running 65, I was able to QUICKLY AND SAFELY change lanes and go around WITHOUT holding up other traffic. The load paid $5400, so after fueling in OK, $350 for 125 gal, I grossed over $5000. Truck and trailer are paid for. I like my math more......
@@deiseldog3 But this is the rub and you pointedthis out: fuel expense may be the biggest expense but it's not the only expense. But how about driving an older classic? I think I would give up on mile per gallon to have the pride of driving one of those rigs. Where's the pride and driving something that looks like a spaceship?
Fair points but you failed to consider a couple things: -Typically a guy with an older truck owns it. 0 payment which gives you the freedom to say no when rates get cheap -175000 plus warranty costs of say 20000 creates 195000 in debt plus your interest cost -def cost -an older truck you typically have equity and can sell at any time -you’re always buried in those aerodynamic trucks until 6 months before your lease-contract is paid -drivers that drive older Pete’s and kw’s typically have more mechanical skills, are better drivers and save the company money with on road issues - all new trucks work much worse in extreme cold and have issues which is important to consider if you run in Canada. -too many proprietary parts on new trucks. Ie moulded coolant hoses. Anyone the ran a Volvo in northern Ontario would know what I’m talking about.
I’d like to audit him. Cost savings of a younger dispatcher at near minimum wage that might make some mistakes but his salary is lower so he’s worth it in savings. Turn his office lights off when he’s not seated and adjust his thermostat as well. Keep tabs on computer data and make sure he’s not doing anything inefficiently.
Typical Greater Toronto Area trucking business, pay tax payer sponsored temporary foreign workers minimum wage, get incentivized governmental contracts for doing so, and then lecture everyone on cost savings from a pure “business” standpoint. The majority of Canadian truckers, owner operators and businesses would whole heartedly disagree with him.
Did anyone also notice the difference in Engine Run time, 60 more hours on the peterbilt. Either a lot of time idling or slow streets and stoplights to do the same mileage.
Yep. Noticed that too. Engine run time, and idle time was much higher on the older truck where it was running. Stuck in traffic jams? Who knows. This guy is painting this picture with a broad brush. All depends on what you are doing with that truck, and where.
@ThePatUltra Man there is a few on here that are, that worries me...hard to get a guy like me running my type of truck but new guys that don''t know...gotta warn them at least
Start that truck once a week, that's what I was taught a cold engine will rattling bang for an hour until it warms up and then it will smooth out and sound nice and quiet and how much wear do you think you got in that engine when it was rattling and banging and beating itself to pieces until the parts warmed up and everything became true in that engine again that half hour to hour of beating in vain will give you 10 times the wear of letting your truck idle overnight that's in cold weather granite but it is true
You're kinda missing the whole picture if you only look at fuel consumption to determine operating costs between trucks. Truck parts for trucks made in the 90s are far simpler and less complex to replace than newer trucks with loads of sensors and electronics incorporated into them. Not only that but the parts themselves cost more for new trucks, and there's just more of them. Maybe with a large fleet of trucks you can get contracts with parts dealers to get a discount for new parts but us small guys do not have access to such opportunities.
I'm a 35 year ready-mix concrete operator. I've had 8 brand new units over my career and can say without hesitation that the older trucks were far more reliable and able to be serviced/repaired by our mechanics shop than the late models we drive today. Warning lights and derates are common with new ones which often results in the truck gone back to the dealer for repair.
Big trucking companies try to sell off their trucks before they need extensive repairs. Same with leased cars, people turn in their leased cars before the big repair bills hit and the guy who thought they got a smoking deal on that Porsche SUV they bought for 20k used that retails for almost 100k new, and then the first repair bill hits and they find out why it was so cheap. it's just good business sense for them to get rid of trucks almost out of warrantee.
@@highjix ohhhh yeah, thanks for the economics lesson… but I think the theory of dumping something right before it starts having major problems is the target every person, and business, that owns items that fall in the “liability” column do, individual people do this with their 25k dollar Nissan , it holds with aircraft, helicopters, boats, lawnmowers., cranes, tractors, .. basically what the point I’m making is, that’s just common sense, even though sense isn’t so common these days..
I've been truck spotting for 16 years and my whole family has been truck drivers. The only trucks I ever see on tow trucks are new trucks. Old trucks will last forever if taken care of. The new stuff you'd be lucky to get a year out of it without major issues. "2016-2017 the truck stopped having problems." Biggest lie I have ever heard about trucks in my life. New trucks are so unreliable it's a joke.
i feel the same goes for all these new cars with so many unnecessary things they add for "luxury" or "efficiency" just a bunch of nonsense to get you back in the shop within a few months. Im my opinion its blatant planned obsolescence by the manufacturers they dont build these things to last they want you in the shop giving them your hard earned money as often as possible.
@@sandasturner9529 oh my god I dont doubt that. The funny thing is all these mega carriers waste more money on buying new trucks then they would fixing older stuff.
One of the most dangerous things on the new trucks is the "adaptive cruise control." My sensor picks up on overpasses, thinks I'm getting ready to hit something, and applies full brakes, along with a beautiful red dash alarm warning of an imminent collision. When that happens at 3:00 in the morning, and you're 78,000 pounds, it gets your attention! My truck is a 2018 T680.
@@FaZeredemption3 Un-f*cking believable. And I'm sure the way the law is written and the contract the driver has to sign, if the god damned truck slams on the brakes like that and THAT causes an accident, it will be the DRIVER'S FAULT.
Exactly! You have to break eggs to make an omelet. With only 11 hours a day to drive you got to maximize it and if that means burning a little more fuel than what it means. People that worry about 1/10 of a mile per gallon of fuel savings are either managers of a Mega Mill like Schneider Warner Swift are CE Eggland or they're taking slim margin cheap freight.
Exactly, I have an agent getting me over 4 per mile and the reason he gets it is because I pull Conestoga and trucks are reliable. I'll eat fuel cost vs risk of elog shutdown and stupid break downs any day. And there's a lot to be said for big brother getting us to be conforming robots.
Honestly DEF usage is so low, at least on my truck, that it's really not a direct factor. Emissions issues would/will be but not the DEF consumption itself. Talking 150+ mpg on local/regional style with a truck pushing air harder than most due to having absolutely no aero.
Also 9 times out of 10 older models don't have apu I'm sure the newer models do need to compare it with one that both has apu and then tell me the results
@@montecarloblacq You said "add the def cost" I do add the def cost. I'm saying it's almost nothing. It's more than offset by fuel mileage gains, therefore it's a non-issue. That's the very definition of factoring it in.
@@sharkskin3448 15 minutes to fuel a diesel but how many hours to charge an electric??? That'll throw a wrench in ETA to where someone's going plus the driver's hours of service and schedule will be chaos running later hours when he'e sleepy. Umm, not good.
@@muffs55mercury61 To be honest if the electric tractors come in to use they most likely going to be short haul runs. What will most likely happen is when a driver gets to the end of a run away from their terminal they will find a place to recharge and send the driver to a hotel overnight. I can not see them ever going OTR for long runs.
I listen to some of those two stroke Detroit diesels on TH-cam and my ears started to ring. Reminds me of a heavy-duty forklift I drove in a former life before my former life they had to Detroit Diesel in it. Even though I wore earplugs it seem like I lost hearing every day I drove that thing.
As a truck mechanic, 2 storke Detroit are cool but they suck. Horrible mileage, hard to work on, unreliable and leaky. Computer control is the way to go. But get a simple basic one. Series 60 gets amazing fuel economy. Better cold starts. Still runs million miles without breakdowns.
When "Smart Trucking" allowed his wife to post their numbers. He blew your argument out of the water. Our cost per mile were the same, his truck is paid for. And I pay $4500 a month. His numbers were $1.07 a mile, no payment. My numbers $1.07 a mile. Where .52 of that was truck payment. And I've funded a maintenance account at 7 cents a mile. But paid for all maintenance through my business account. Allowing the maintenance fund to grow, as it should. When the dust settles. I've made more profit. End of story Old vs New is for ego's only. My bank account has no ego
He speaks like a man that’s never driven a truck. Most would take an older truck over the newer plastic junk. My Columbia glider will drive circles around that newer junk!
When I look at a truck my question is always can I retire in this truck, I bought a new 2006 T600 and didn't think it would last this long, but anything newer is not going to be trouble free, I'm actually planning on putting my 1992 FLD120 back on the road, won't cost $20K to rebuild that truck and bring it back to a nice driver, stay strong
Have the truck looked over by a reputable mechanic of your choosing if you don't know what you're looking at on the truck. If the seller won't allow it walk away because it's not hard to spend over $20k on repairs
@@jessiehodges1513 Thank you. If you were in the market NOW, looking at online truck listings: What make / model and year older truck would you choose? As a newbie, automatic is a must :) Thanks again.
Nice observation at the beginning where you flag up you are sharing your opinion. I believe that the biggest pros to an old truck are also depreciation. If you maintain an old iron and spend a bit more with fuel compared to a newer truck, in the end, the depreciation for an old truck is significantly less compared to a new iron because it costs around three times more than an old truck.
you know what dpf is, right? Well, i dont think so.. its just a filter, that after a while it gets burned out the remained bad stuff. Thats all... its very unlikely to fail, almost every time its because the driver, or the bad usage, like always in urban area, always in mines, inside company areas etc... where it cant be burned out, and once its clogged its done... Also for the EGR, MAF,MAP etc.. .sensors, you just have to clean them with hand by yourself, or at the dealership by professionals. All in all, you just have to maintain the new stuff, and it will be as long living truck as the old ones, or more. And even if something fail by manufacturer mistake, warranty still covers it and they will replace it for 0 money, problem solved, probably never will happen again. Also, it really does matter what quelity fuel you using, if you are going for the cheapest as possible, its gonna be a short living truck, newer ones are much more sensitive to this, i've seen many times companies using the cheapest garbage fuel, they dont care about the truck because after 3 years when our warranty last they just give it back to the dealer and bring out new ones. It doesnt matter if after a couple more years it will fail to pieces under the new owner... Oh, and the oil change... its also a thing companies doesnt like to do, it cost money, and its takes away hauling time, so this is also an other reason why new trucks fail quick, bad usage
Unfortunately, 72.4 % of the breakdowns on our 2018 2019 fleet have been computer issues. Not computer logs but engine and transmission computer shutdown or complete failer. Computers are the weakest link in trucks.
When your new truck is broken down sitting in the shop waiting for parts, I'll haul the load in my old truck and be making the money while your trying to figure out a way to make your lease payment.
Grade A casing recaps are just as good as virgins as long as you maintain proper air pressure in your tires. Vast majority of tire blowouts is due to driver error regardless if it is virgin or recap.
But the difference in fuel cost literally makes up for his lease cost. That leaves them DEAD EVEN. Now account for parts etc and the old truck leaves the new one in the dust.
yea, they ignore that but the more miles and a beating that new truck takes the more it will start succking out dolla bills, and people don't understand that paying for something for 5 yrs is a long time!
@@0xsergy You will not find a shop that will rebuild a new truck for free, the parts are warrantied sure, but when a tractor trailer mechanic makes $75/h, and the shop charges twice that or more depending on the shop, and a engine rebuild takes 3-4 days, so roughly 24 hours of labor, that's $3600 alone spent on repairs, whereas the older trucks, you replace simple parts that take a few hours at most to replace/repair, it'll maybe cost you $500-$1000. In short, newer != better.
I just came over from a driver’s video. He went back to an old truck because his new truck was in the shop once a month because of bad sensors. He paid $200K for the new truck and $70K in repair for the first year. Sold it off and bought a 1995. In the comments of that video, trucker after trucker said the same thing; the new trucks are crap.
@@highjix let's get this straight first, a fact is a fact regardless of opinion. An opinion is someone's take on it. Facts don't care about someone's takes or thoughts on it. So the wordage needs corrected.
So true I love going to the dealer every few weeks and then getting another new truck cause they can't figure out what's wrong ,and the reassuring feeling I get when the guy at the front desk doesn't know how to check the mileage or what odometer means.
The problem with electric trucks. Ok everything goes electric! Oh it’s going to be so much cheaper! Oh well how much tax is going to be added to electricity or mileage to make up for the tax loss in fuel. Nobody is talking about that.
Also where does the electricity come from? Grids are already strained. Now battery as a service might work. UPS buys 50 trucks and instead of those trucks sitting and recharging the tech swaps the batteries. So a set up in which an empty battery is swapped in a minutes for a fresh one then the old battery is trickle charged and checked. If the batteries could be swapped then the truck doesn't need huge packs just enough swap stations along the way.
@@kineticinstallationspecial5775 Road upkeep is paid for by fuel tax. trucks do the most damage to roads. So the thing doing the most damage pays no taxes?
@@cb-gz1vl I dont understand why the UPS Electric Truck did not put a solar panel on top of their truck. You could easily fit 2kw Solar Panel in there..
That pencil pusher couldn’t be more wrong. Been driving since ‘96. I’ve owned paper logs trucks. I would never touch an ‘08 or newer rig with a long pole. The only ppl breaking down on the road with older trucks are the drivers that don’t service their trucks on a regular basis.
I'm 6'2" and like the W900 our company has better than our 19 Cascadia. KW rides better, is warmer in -40 weather, corners better and looks WAY cooler. Old truck rule. You'll never see a 15 year old Volvo, Cascadia, or any other new crap pile.
Sort of. These engines produce much less spot through efficient combustion. You can reduce this further by running a good fuel additive and not driving aggressively. As carbon builds up, you can get a DieselForce service that returns it to like new condition.
@@Misesian86 you're not right about 'efficient combustion' emissions standards are VERY sticky on NOx levels. NOx levels are highest during a nice clean (hot) efficient lean burn. So, manufacturers will actually run dirtier, cold, less efficient (fuel rich with more soot) to hit NOx targets. then the aftertreatment will deal with the soot (dpf) and finally NOx emissions are "tuned" via def in the SCR. gross, right? statistically, an intact EGR will HALF a diesel engine's life expectancy :(
@@GordonTurnerr where is your data to show that a SCR and EGR equipped engine is running rich and that being equipped with EGR reduces engine life by half? Any SCR, EGR equipped engine will go 1 million miles like any pre emission engine, you just need to clean some of the components a few times during that 1-1.5 million miles; EGR cooler, EGR Valve, turbo housing. EGR will not impact longevity if you follow recommended maintenance intervals. Modern oils effectively handle the impact of EGR. I run multiple trucks myself, I will only buy 2016 or later models. I would never consider running dinosaur technology that can’t compete with the fuel, maintenance, and uptime benefits of the newest models. Your experience with modern equipment will depend on how you maintain it. The manufacturers spell it out for you, most ignore it though.
Every owner operator i know that bought new have had issues with the newer truck and the dealership don't pay the payments while it sits in the shop. One in general was on the hook more in the first year than his older truck was in its life of ownership. He replaced the older truck to try and prevent spending time in the shop. He wished he wouldn't have bought the new truck. Also, fuel mileage is based off driving habits and weights being hauled. I drove my 86 peterbilt 362 cabover and after I built the engine to my specs I averaged 6.8mpg and I have a freightliner that's getting 5. Another issue i see is the electric trucks, if they are so efficient and if electric is supposed to be the way to go why are they trying to be more aerodynamic and so ugly? If the electric was so good they could be using w900 and 359/379 Peterbilt cab and chassis but no, they are using all plastic ugly garbage. Nobody wants to be told what to drive and told when to drive if they own their business. I believe the government is getting into everyone's business and creeping into things they should stay out of.
"Tap into the drivers analytics..." This guy talks alot and is a true manager. Managers manage people processes and procedures. He loves numbers, it shows with his in-depth and detailed charts graphs and spreadsheets. He is good at his job and probably does a great job at saving his company on expenses and costs. However, I would challenge this guy to get in a truck and drive for a year and run 'his' numbers.
@@cerberus_the_rapper3096 what’s wrong with that? If your job is to drive trucks then your job is to drive trucks. If his job is to manage company money then why does he need experience driving trucks? You hire different people for different jobs. You wouldn’t go to a nurse for surgery.
@@mannymm7887 Because managers that don't know or care about the people that actually do the work are miserable to work for, and the driver will have zero loyalty to him or the company.
Older trucks are just easier and cheaper to maintain. Not to mention they hold value. A fleet owner like you, will sell off your tractors most likely when that 1/2 million warranty is out.
I have a 2000 W900L, 60 series detroit gets 7.8 mpg.so your numbers are skewed depending on motor, gearing, weight of freight, type of freight and driving style... Way too many variables to consider when comparing old to new. And yes I also have 2 2018 cascadias.
@@Tyler-xe1es it’s very rare and you can only get those mpg in aero trucks either Cascadia, Columbia, or Century but no freaking way and not even close in Classics like W9 or 379!
Sorry my man, a 25 year O/O and company owner in Alberta. With such a large difference in idle time and total engine run time you can't discount that. Yes, you're absolutely correct about the dark ages of regen 09 - 13/14 depending in the truck. That being said, you have not mentioned engine HP, driver habits, or manual vs auto transmission all of these having a huge effect on the stats you present here. I will say I'd rather put my money into a specific build for a specific application Ours was super b trains hauling fuel.....I'd put together a set up with a Cummins N14 that would easily blow out of the water the numbers you're giving here, for my company and needs. I love the way you study the numbers numbers, Nobody in trucking an succeed without that detail, but don't be a slave to that computer, we did all that with pen and paper, and we could still figure out what trucks to use on certain runs, and what drivers to put in them.....great content keep it up for all the noobs to the business you'll save them for sure!! Old trucks are not junk bro, you just need the experience to set them up and run them
Also consider that older truck is paid off or easier to pay off. That new truck payment comes no matter what and it's around a lot longer. There's a lot of stress that comes with that. And if you're into the 500k cycle mentality, you NEVER get rid of that payment.
@ad izzle yeah a payment that keeps coming whether you're running or not whether the market is good or not whether you have health issues or not whether you need to take time off for a loved one or not. Some people just don't want that kind of stress.
That’s what he’s not addressing, a overhauled and fully gone thru old truck will give you life with no payment over a course of MILLIONS of miles and multiple life cycles. There is a reason why you don’t see new trucks go into those cycles because EVERYTHING on the truck which is thousands and thousands of more complicated and expensive parts will have broken by then. If you want to goto the promise land which lemme tell you what that is. A old school truck with no payment and 90% of the truck is in Good working order you can make and KEEP and good portion of your money. That’s the promise land and everyone who is there knows it. Show me a paid off cascadia with 2 milli on it on its second overhaul with no issues going down the road 🤪. Go ask a shop or dealer why they rarely every overhaul modern trucks. It’s because there is so much else wrong with them inframing the engine is pointless the whole thing is falling apart and malfunctioning.
Very true. Suppose you get hurt, or have a medical condition that takes you off the road for a few months. You can park your paid for large car, and not worry. Your 2020 Freightliner has a $3000 note every month. Your just hire a driver to run your truck? Oops! New driver didn't see that post when he was backing and turning to hit a dock. There goes a few thousand for a new bumper and a hood. Not me! Old school, I'm no fool!
The elephant in the room, for a one man one truck ownership operation. The downtime will put you completely out of business with an emission truck, combined with the exorbitant shop rates, assuming they can even get you in. This individual is applying all the numbers to his company, where he can afford to have 10% of his fleet idle in the repair shop and still operate.
Ya, so to run new trucks, you need 2 to 3 trucks for every 1 that you purchase. You'll be needing the other two as spares. Where's the savings? Explaining to customers and clients that you can't get the load delivered is not a conversation you want to have and it can put you out of business. I've always said that it's ridiculous to spend tens of thousands to buy fuel Mileage. You'll all spend any savings on the initial purchase and repairs and down time. Better off to keep the vehicle that you know.
I would rather spend $80k max for a 2008 post ELD & pre emissions truck with 350k miles & an already complete rebuilt engine (dt466) and transmission (eaton 9) than a new post ELD & post emissions truck which will have already been built cheap to begin with for a $150k starting and not built to last.
If you DO NOT govern a 2021 Cascadia or any newer truck to 62mph, it will use the same fuel basically as an old dd60. So his comparison on fuel consumption was most likely misleading. Was the old truck that used more fuel governed like the new truck that used less fuel? I keep my 06' dd60 around 64 and I'm always 7+ mpg's loaded.
A 2007 isn't really what most older truck owners consider an older truck. That's in the danger years. Most guys are looking at dead simple machines from the 1990s and even earlier. They DIY almost everything, if not everything, and it takes something catastrophic to require a tow...not just a sensor going haywire or a bad batch of DEF. The fuel economy is a bit lower but it's a fairly easy tradeoff for unplanned downtime, tow bills, scheduled and unscheduled regens, filter cleanings, etc. The argument for mass produced mega trucks is a lot easier to make for a fleet with unknowledgeable drivers with no incentive to do anything themselves or learn about it. That said, I went from a 1988 to a pre-owned 2014 and the 2014 is a lot more comfortable and was inexpensive enough to justify it for now. It's not worth 6 figures though. Not even close.
Finally someone says how it really is! But a lot of drivers are only arguing that they are not right in what they say! Plastic Freightliner or Volvo MPG is over 8 mpg and old PIT or KW 5 mpg how will you do it and how lucky you will be! 😄👍
Doesn't matter. Whatever you do to that brick of a Pete to make it more economical, a modern aero will still do twice as better if you do the same things to the aero. Those bricks are ancient junk, just let it go bro.
@@angrysocialjusticewarrior no that's where you wrong. New trucks have tons of sensors and have to run def which ruins mpg each times it runs. There aren't any mods you can do to the new onese to make them more powerful or more efficient like you can do a older truck. You cant do the same things to newer trucks.
@@angrysocialjusticewarrior so twice as better is 14.4 mpg😂😂.. i have 5 trucks all pre 2000 3406e and 60 serios and they make me lots of money. 200k this month alone. If you love your new iron then great run it.. will stick to what works for us
Not by much in this case. Idling only burns about 0.8 gallons of fuel per hour. With 28 additional hours of idling that month, that’s only 22.4 extra gallons. At $3/gallon, that’s less than $75 extra.
Good catch! I did not notice that. I try not to idle my tractor but then again I return home most every night. Cummins claims that for every 10 hours of idling the truck at low idle equivalates to 600 miles driven down the highway fully loaded. Cummins further claims that if idling cannot be avoided is to raise the RPMs to 1,100 so that way the cylinder pressures can burn all the fuel and it just seems like it's less wear and tear on the engine from the way they write it. The only idling Cummins accepts is to let the engine cool down after a long haul on the highway. Remember, every revolution of the crankshaft is another connecting rod wrapping around the crankshaft and another Revolution the crankshaft goes around inside the main bearings. Every revolution of the crankshaft causes the piston and its rings to go up and down in the cylinder again. Every revolution of the crankshaft causes the valve train to operate and Springs to be compressed and be compressed again. Every revolution of the crankshaft rotates the flywheel and turns the input shaft of the transmission again. Idling is not free.
You should have compared gallons/liters instead of price. Fuel prices can vary from place to place and even from day to day. I agree newer trucks have better mileage, not just because they are more aerodynamic, but because they have smaller engines too. In "flat land" trucking country, that may be great, in mountain states, extra power is a must.
We agree a hundred percent! Mountain states are also better handled by manual transmissions! Those who can handle logging in the mountains will tell you, nothing beats an 18-speeder in the mountains
Well... I’m still driving a 94 379 exhd. No payment, No emissions, No eld. Also the resale on my old truck right now would bring 60-70 k American. A 2018 cascadia will not bring half of that. To each there own.
@@dchawk81 markets fluctuate now don't they. maybe you haven't noticed so do freight rates. tomorrow it could be all different. my 2021 is less of a truck than my 2018. but the inside sure is a delight. that could change too.
Well looks like the comments section disagrees with the video. I also disagree. I have a 96 W900 with an N14 under the hood. Most reliable truck I've ever owned. If it's in the shop it'll be for little things like an air bag, suspension, etc. No more than 2 days downtime and back on the road. Also, no EGR, DPF, or any other BS. And when I want to sell it, I'll likely get back every penny I paid for it.
@@hellkitty1014 no, you buy brand new and trade them in every 3.5 years and get brand new again. If older trucks made more sense why do the major fleets buy brand new? Common sense
Your right about most things on here but I've had a lot of older trucks that were 18,000 lbs or so and the newer trucks are 20,000 lbs with all the egr crap and Def crap egr cooler, one box on, and on and on, plus I can work on my old truck myself, new truck's have to go to a shop and good luck getting in (week's sometimes) I agree with you about the newer truck's get better fuel mileage, good for them, I'll spend a little bit more in fuel and will not haul cheap freight...
20 years ago an old timer told me if you drive for fuel you're not making money. Took me 15 years to figure out what he meant. A lot of folks believe that fuel is the drivers biggest cost. It's not, taxes wages and insurance costs are. Without going into a long drawn out explanation I'll just keep it simple. If fuel is a concern you're not making money. Also, 45,000lbs plus pounds is almost always a cheap load as far as average van freight. It's never been worth the strain on your equipment. You want to make money? Know what you're going to haul, and what the rates are before you buy a tractor. Purchase your equipment outright. Stay away from cheap and heavy freight. Keep your overhead low (business & personal), and try to save 70% of profits for the lean times. Trucking follows a cycle.....good rates means the industry will flood with drivers and companies....which will drive rates down. When these newcomers fall off, and many will, rates will go back up. It's a dirty business that honestly needs more regulation, but if you remember these rules your chance of earning a stable living goes up exponentially.
I think you're full of it, Ronan. Check out "Smart Trucking" on TH-cam, he runs old iron and hates the new emissions trucks. They will mess up your fleet. Old iron is tried and true, and if you treat your truck right it'll save you money. Any big strappers agree?
That old black pete has been parked in his yard in TO for years while he drives a daycab local. It's a pig on fuel like they all are but don't disagree with him or he quickly deletes your post. Mostly a good guy with interesting stuff but posts the occasional ridiculous bullshit.
Ronan I’m sorry but your thinking is off. For example when I was a 5 year old kid My father purchased our 1996 peterbilts 25 years ago they have been paid off for almost two decades. i was a little kid and I’m still using the tractor today in 2021 to make money with no payment old trucks are so reliable they are actually multi generational it’s not even close man. the life cycles on these old trucks is a lifetime . Not 5 years 500k miles and then literally everything on it will need replacing and combine that with dealer wait times of multiple weeks and planned obsolescence forget it. I also own modern trucks including 2021 cascadia and Volvo d13. I can’t believe the trucks we bought when I was kid outperform new units in NET revenue . The new ones need so much maintenance and have so much exponentially greater cost of repair and downtime You will never make it to the promise land of no payments and a beast of a truck. And that’s where you need to be to truly prosper on a fleet level
My '97 CaT 3406 (over 2 mil miles) is a power house ... my '21 (102K mi is going on 2nd week in shop) . . . extremely hard to compare walnuts and bananas
As a 310T Technician, all new trucks have sensor and DEF/DPF issues. And its getting harder to get sensors and parts. Older Pre Emission Trucks best way to go.
That's why I see tons of new trucks sitting on the side of the road with a repair truck while the old trucks are still hammering down the road. I drive a 15-year-old Freightliner and it never breaks down while another driver in our company has a 2015 Freightliner that is always in the shop. I always hear the guys in the front office bitching about that newer truck because there's always something going wrong with the DEF system or a sensor going out or something.
stay tuned, i will be doing a follow up video on Old trucks. and bringing up the Repairs, DEF, Emission Sensors, and other issues that people have brought up.
@@NorthAmerican-Trucking-News.... I have a close friend that owns a heavy duty towing business that is a division of a large repair shop he also owns. He has been in the HD towing business for over 26 years now, and he tells me that of all the semis that he tows as a result of engine and transmission (AMT types) related breakdowns... on average over the past 15 years, he "hooks" 8.3 "electronically controlled" trucks to every "One" non-electronic unit.... and his Minimum charge is $800. and goes progressively upwards into the four digit numbers, depending on towed mileage of course.
You started out with a 125k Cascadia, the ads you showed for used were 30k for a used cascadia. 95k depreciation over 60 months is 1585/month. That 96 is still worth the same, that 2k a month you keep talking about is really 400/month. Can you honestly say in 5 years you haven’t spent 50k in emissions repairs plus downtime?
You got that right ..this know it all is worried about another man's equipment if another trucker prefers old iron it's non of his business the expenses are not his to worry about..bet he has volvo stock
Wow, lot of disappointed truckers on here. Instead of making assumptions about this man stats, it would be nice to hear how you truckers stay efficiently . Maybe no one is keeping tabs
The Fourth Industrial Revolution is going to destroy the United States and Canada with it. The hackers who hijacked the Columbia Pipeline are working for a devil in Europe who is intent on collapsing the world ecconomy as we know it.
@@773alonzo : he may be on to something. Who would ever thought that the “ Russians” could hack a major pipeline and shut it down and fuck the whole east coast of America, just to turn it back on for the measly sum of 5 million dollars. So maybe you should think what you’re saying before any more random shit comes from your mouth. Just saying.
I'm not a 18 wheeler expert, but I had my experience and as mechanic as well all I can say if I buy a truck it'll be an older truck. First of all fuel consumption can be regulated if driving style/conditions do permit it and proper modifications that can meet EPA standards.
A friend bought a Fliner, 2018, his ecm took a dump (one of the ecms) there are several. repair was 11,000.00. Thats over half the cost of a total cat rebuild.
IDK about all the electronic crap - specifically all these damned "collision avoidance" sensors. The best collision avoidance sensor is an aware/alert driver behind the wheel. If I ever buy a new unit (company driver now) it will NOT have those sensors - either they'll be disabled or just not on the unit, period.
My '14 doesn't have any of that. I bought it used. I'm not sure if the company ever had it on but if they did, they removed it before posting it for sale and there isn't a hint of it anywhere.
@@Damo_81 what you can do is put a piece of cardboard in front of the sensor on the outside and it'll be disabled until you remove the piece of cardboard.
currently made the jump to o/o. i purchased an 88' 379 from my uncle who had completely restored it in 07'.. having drove several pete and kw newer trucks, I'll tell you this, my 88 drives straighter, has less vibration, and gets better mileage than any of the new model trucks I've driven. while waiting for plates, i jumped in a 15' pete. it averaged 3.4 mpg, [oilfield, mountain grades, etc..] pulling the wagon in my old girl i am over 5. i call 100% bullshit, i run my logs through keep trucking, have a dashcam and the whole set up, (company policy). anywho my two cents. keep it between the ditches y'all.
I think the main concern of why some drivers avoid newer trucks is exactly what u said at 1:18 . But I would argue that major repair issues started much earlier than 2013 and still continue to 2021 model year trucks. If warranty wasn't there to save these lease drivers while their making payments, they'd be looking to replace a 1 box for 20 grand out of pocket (worse case scenario) and the truck hasn't hit 100k miles yet, sadly these thing do happen even today. Drivers have in the back of their mind that the fuel savings achieved from the DD15 (or D13) is going to be taken away by the greedy hands of the aftertreatment system to fix a faulty sensor or too much soot build up cause the system doesn't want to regen, regardless on weather its parked or moving. Than there's dealerships and other shops to intentionally misdiagnose the issue (or don't know what they're doing) just to get you to part ways with your fuel savings $$. Looking at fuel savings alone is not the full and complete picture in regards to cost of operation... Still this is a good video that will encourage a deeper conversation into making new trucks stay on the road and out of the shop!
And don't forget about the downtime. Most dealerships won't even get to your truck for two or three days. I spent $1000 on a knox sensor. Next truck will definitely be a glider.
Reliability is a major concern. The cool factor is not the main concern. Open the hood on short stub nose " conventional" and you can see it is a mechanics nightmare. ( more shop labor to get to failed part) Big fleet owners with 100 or more trucks is only a small percentage down when a truck lays down. Us one truck owners are 100% down when our truck is down. Refer back to reliability.
Back in the day, Gateway Transportation used to run its semi-trailer tractors for 500,000 miles, then sell them to another trucking company that would run them another couple of hundred thousand miles.
I have a kw 900 year 2000, I get 6.5 to 7 miles , but I drive at 65 and don’t idle . It’s a cat c15 430 hp. I do notice that if I drive faster my mpg goes down quickly. It seems that that is the sweet spot.
@@alcazarm7 I’m only speaking for cats. I’ve had a variety of motors and cat for sure is one that you add more power you get better mileage. I didn’t sable with the other motors. Most big fleets don’t have cats either. My current cat went from 4-5 mpg up to 6-7 at 700 hp.
I appreciate this video first starting the debate between older versus newer truck. Well the reasons you went over well stated, I'm a bit miffed at the reasons you did not cover fully in my opinion. Here in the Chicago, Illinois, area you can go to any used truck dealer and get a 2010 to 2012 Volvo or Freightliner or Mac or Sterling for $23,000 U.S.D. out the door. When those trucks were new, they were sold for well above six digits. Therefore, we're talking about a $7,500 hit in depreciation per year on average. I'm pretty sure the classic flat nose trucks, I mean I think some of them actually gain value with age. Also, those quote-unquote Fleet tractors will be on the lot for at least 6 months up to 24 months before they are sold where the classic straight nose tractors usually sell within 60 days. The second bone I'm going to pick with you is that if you have to find that you need to get eight or nine miles per gallon to make money on any given freight then you're hauling Freight that just does not pay enough. Currently diesel fuel is about 350 a gallon here in Chicago and I get about 6 miles per gallon on my 2000 Freightliner Century with a Cummins n14 Eaton 13-speed 3.58 rear axle. It's not a classic like a Peterbilt or Kenworth or frankly even an FLD, but it's been working for me. If a given load doesn't pay me $2.20 a mile or $95.00 an hour if the load is going less than a hundred miles I ignore it. Also, don't these newer trucks have to regen? This seems to be a waste of fuel. Third, you laugh off the detriment of having the DEF system go Haywire. You could afford to do this cuz it appears that you have dedicated salary mechanics on staff. I do not have such staff: my main mechanics are Me, Myself, and I. I already have to worry about major components such as the engine, transmission, and axles. I don't need a fourth major component which can be just as expensive as transmission or axles to go kahfluie on me. Also, an older truck is more flexible and that he can cease making fuel purchases at anytime and park his tractor. Try this with your bank if you try and in the middle of a five-year lease to park your truck for two years and make no payments. Also, I have a news for you: new trucks breakdown also. This provides the new truck owner the double whammy of having to make a payment while he's not making money and then he has to also pay a mechanic if the job is not covered by the warranty. Finally, I easily pass newer trucks with their purported 7 to 8 miles per gallon up even only just simple 2% grades. Cars love these type of trucks where they slow down 10 to 15 miles per hour to go up a small hill. I myself would rather have an engine that has ample power to add more fuel to the injectors the chug up the hill without losing more than a couple miles per hour if that. If you're driving 600 miles per day over hilly terrain that's got to make a difference Which will bring me to my final point: I don't think it's winning Trucking to drive all over the map. One way I keep the amount of Revenue per mile I drive above $2 a mile is I don't take anything out more than 350 miles. It doesn't pay for me to sleep in my truck overnight and eat that crappy food and park in s urine stench parking spot--if I can even find a parking spot after 4 in the afternoon-- all to wake up in an area where there's no outbound Freight. You appear to be at a big company so you have to take any loads pain-free just to keep all your trucks busy. There is no doubt it's not much fun at times owning a dilapidated older truck. A few weeks ago everyday I worked by tractor something broke on it or fell off of it. Older trucks have a payment of their own and that's parts replacement. Actually I'll give a bonus argument: I can take my Cummins14 to any heavy-duty tractor repair shop and be assured of at least one mechanic being competent at looking at my engine. Try this with her Mercedes MBE 4000 let alone a 2021 dd15. And when you do find that mechanic that can work on a Mercedes which basically the dds are, you are going to pay a pretty penny just to have them take off all the pollution crap to get to the engine to see what's wrong with it. This is a pretty significant hidden cost of newer engines. Oh I just cannot stop: I have driven an older Volvo engine and yes it got seven miles per gallon but no it did not maintain its speed up a 2% grade even if I were empty. So you can't crap me that these newer post EGR engines cannot hang with. Cummins N14 with 1.1 million miles on it. These heavy-duty diesel engines do not make the same power within each year are as they do when it was designed without it I don't care what anyone says. Overhauling my engine a Cummins n14 starts at $20,000 United States dollar at the common shop here in Hodgkins, Illinois. On the Cummins ISX engine the rebuild starts at $35,000 United States dollar. A turbocharger for my engine which is 370-425HP ( it is 370 horsepower most of the time except one on cruise control going uphill will shoot more fuel into the injectors to get the 445 horsepower) is between $500 and $900. A turbocharger for the ISX starts at $3,500. My engine could probably run on turpentine or Petro sludge. You better have pristine fuel if you're going to be running an ISX or any other newer engine. I've never seen a 13 speed or an 18 speed in a newer truck, they are all 10 speeds or automatics. Any tractor that I was looking to purchase that didn't have at least 13 gear transmission was a deal-breaker for me and I moved to another truck. The gaps between eighth and Ninth gear and specially 9th and 10th gear are just too aggravating. I don't know if I'd want to go to a mechanical engine, but I'm very happy with this twenty-year-old engine has no EGR and allows me to run paper logs. Arrhgghhhhhh... I have to keep coming back for more; I watched a video of a host interviewing a loan officer of a lending company. The host was literally taken almost a yard back when he asked a question does it make a difference make a model of what the truck is for a loan. The Lending officer verified my previous comment that he really doesn't lend on fleet vehicles because there's nothing left in them. He went on to explain himself that it cost him $12,000 USD to $18,000 USD to repossess a semi tractor. Included in this amount is probably the airfare to fly a driver to get the tractor the cost replace all the tires since they're always 0% when they repossess has them and maybe some interior work for the guy that was pissed off that he's going to go bankrupt leasing a new truck. I cannot understand why the host was taken back by what he thought would be a rhetorical question. Do not think for a minute I'm not jealous of that Peterbilt 389 with the stainless steel air cleaners and the chrome bumper and the hundred lights on his reefer trailer rolling down the highway at night. I would gladly give up on mile per gallon if I could get equipment like that to drive. And that's what the loan officer said: if you're first getting into the industry buying a tractor get one that's a classic so that way you don't take a bath if you decide you don't want to do it and have to get rid of the tractor. Remember kids, unless you are a Mega Mill buying thousands of power units annually, you are most likely going to pay manufacturer's suggested retail price for your brand new tractor. However, when it comes time to trade it in even if it is only three years later oh, you're going to have to let it go at the wholesale rate so that the dealer can make something on it. This 15 to 20 percent difference in like a whole entire ear of depreciation: instead of getting the 3-year price you're getting a four-year price even though you've only had the tractot for up to 3 years. This is an inexpensive way to have control of an asset. Finally finally; since you deem your old tractors junk, just drop me a line when I can come your way and have you sign the title over to me so I could take possession of them and take this garbage off your hands.
@@arthurbrumagem3844 Thank you Sir. I speech-to-text so this program allows me to ramble-on-which I clearly did. I have nothing against those that want to buy or lease a new truck every-year: God Bless those with such financial means. I just do not possess such financial means so the decision to drive an older truck was sorta made for me.
I'd rather quit trucking before driving a Freightliner again. Just personal preference. Take pride in your ride. We spend a lot of time in these machines.
Even comparing just fuel cost and payment between old and new. The older truck will cost you $200.00 more a month by his math, but after 5 years the freightliner is worth $15-$20k the 379 if kept up will still be worth $50k if not more. Your ahead buy $20-$25k with the old long nose 379 and you looked good doing it.
Your right I don’t own a truck that runs on the highway. I own a small excavating company with a few body jobs. My highway tractors are a 2000 short nose 379 with a 6nz and a 1999 long nose with a series 60 they collect dust until February and haul north of Yellowknife for 6 weeks that’s all they work. The company I lease my highway tractors to I also rent a little shop from them, they have a 2020 680 sitting at Kenworth for the last 9 weeks waiting for a simple part. Other then an inframe on one of my trucks it wouldn’t sit for more then 2 days. Also there is a national carrier that rents some space they have about 30 trucks and trailers, they were just trying to sell 4 freightliners 5 years old and couldn’t get a bit at 15k took them to ritchies and got 20k each take off ritchies commission and they made 18k a truck. For large companies the throw away trucks make sense but for a single owner operator I just don’t see the benefit. But then again I don’t own a highway truck lol
Me, as a seasoned driver will never drive a truck that has E Logs, where did the human aspect go, a human brain is more knowledgeable in making a SAFE decision to drive or not. The big claim of drowsy driver, as a seasoned driver, your body will get accustomed to working more and sleeping less. It all goes against professional driver, how about putting more on the non professional drivers that have or are creating un safe issues for the professional driver. Implementation of stricter laws against the non professional driver, maybe the four wheelers will leave us alone. Last, have you been a actual driver, no, don't tell me how to do my job
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾 I have seen those points everyday for the last 20 years,you’ve never been wrong about any of that.We can thank “Mega fleets “for lobbying for E- logs works for them
i started noticing in 2015 the horrendous close calls in tn ky and nc (i40, i75) with trucks not cornering curves well AT ALL. had trailers in my lane forcing me to the shoulder. bad training in lane-keeping.
Yeah, you are right. Classic Trucks are less efficient and cost more than recent Trucks. So you earn more money with theses ones. Okay. But, let's ask ourselves: why do we work? To get money for the most of us. And what is the purpose of this money? Pay bills, pay house, but also get pleasure in general to enjoy with your family, grow pets, enjoying an expensive car or to build up your house, travelling... All of this is pleasure. So you get money to convert it in pleasure. From the point of view of a Classic Truck Enthusiast, passionated, i would say this : Driving a Classic, Straight Piped Peterbilt 379 is a LOT of pleasure. Okay it consumes more fuel but for people loving these classic beauties, its all pleasure to work with. And you pay this pleasure with the extra money it costs to you compared with a recent truck. You get directly the pleasure, and all day, during your job. Literally: working is PLEASURE in a Classic Truck. So yes, I definitely understand why a lot of truckers keep these Trucks on the road and my personal dream is to have mine and get pleasure all the day while driving, even if I earn less money than a Recent Truck Owner.
Two issues I have with the video. 1. He said he has NO problems for the first 3 years. * Most O/O can only afford one that is 3 years old or older, so those problems start from day one for us. 2. My 2015 T680 Paccar could only be diagnosed by KW who would charge outrageous prices just to clear engine codes because they really don't know how to fix them. Example: I just paid $2300 for them to change the fuel filters and clear the codes and told me I was good- guess what came back on within 60 miles? You guessed it, I threw away $2300 for absolutely NOTHING. At least with my 05 379 ANY mechanic ANYWHERE can work on it and ACTUALLY be able to diagnose it. So it wasn't the emissions that bothered me or the "cool factor", it was the Lack of ACTUAL mechanics KW has. Their more like school girls that Google search your symptoms and read a list of things to check in order,, instead of actual mechanics like the old school guys who could listen to your engine and tell ya what's wrong with it. My Mechanic had to take a sensor to KW because they argued that it only had one and not two.... that's ridiculous.
Negative, when an old truck breaks down you got a good chance you can fix it yourself instead of being towed away. When you are handy with your fingers of course.
@ad izzle youre not looking hard enough, youre seeing mega fleet carriers with steering wheel holders behind the wheel. Look for the real owner operators on the road and you will see what he is saying.
@ad izzle I have an old 2007 freightliner that I trust a lot more than these newer trucks. I will gladly pay $15,000 to restore my old truck and KNOWING that it’s good for a few years instead of paying $3000+ a month on a newer truck for 3 years
You forgot the new one breaking down 13 times in the first year of ownership. My new KW broke us. The Pete I’m in now is thirsty but at least it can get down the road reliably
It'll only get worse. As time passes people will invest in making parts for old trucks less and less until eventually, those trucks become a huge liability. Where would you even sell a truck that no one builds stuff for anymore?
My 96 w900 gets 7.5 a gallon none highway miles, lots of hills and stops and that’s getting on it every time to get up to speed Edit: I’m also 100,000 pounds
Look I drove both, Cascadia and Volvos. They are not giving you 8.5-9.0 mpg on a regular basis no matter how you drive. Unless you drive empty all the time. I drive about 63-65mph most of the time on cruise. I barely idle truck because Iam greedy. Average load in the trailer is about 35000lbs. I check tires pressures daily with a tire gauge. I accelerate relatively slowly especially uphill. Currently driving Cascadia with DD15 and 455hp. Previous truck was Volvo with D13 and 500hp. Both of them were giving me 7.0-7.3mpg on average. In my book 7.0 as an average pretty good for a loaded big rig. I just cant see old classic trucks like 379 or W900 giving you less than 6.0mpg under same driving habits. The only reason I don't like driving old trucks is because I hate manual transmissions and Iam lazy to drive it. Also chasing for an improved mileage is not productive anyways. If all trucks on average all of the sudden start being about 2 mpg more efficient, rates will start to go down, since relatively soon everyone will know that you pay less for fuel now. I count my fuel expense as 6mpg and take loads accordingly. Anything better is an extra for me.
I'm a Werner driver. They have me in a 2019 Peterbilt 579. I average 7.5-9.5 mpg depending on where im driving and how heavy. Last load was from Waller TX to Dayton OH with 25k in the back and I averaged 8.9 mpg and 0.7 g/hr idle. Also been down twice because of sensors, one being the def sensor and another the no2 sensor. Trucks at 304k miles I've been driving it since 250k. I'm keeping track of all the numbers incase I ever decide to buy my own truck so I have an idea of expenses to expect.
Just curious. Did you ever put mpg on paper? I mean compare it to the the trucks dash readout? I haven't as I have never had that new of a truck. Do a month or so on paper to see how it compares.
Im brand new to driving truck and i can say that the industry is on a thin line for me. Companies seem to not care about their drivers and shove automatics, elogs and underpowered engines down their throats. Its all about $$ for you managers/dispatchers and never about creating a healthy work culture. Its bad enough that overtime pay doesn’t exists.
Fuel consumption is a very major feature to consider. Frequency of breakdowns and Maintenance cost can't be ignored too. If new trucks spare parts are too expensive to replace in short term and long term, investors may go for older trucks.
newer truck save more money when they are moving but they spend way more money when they are not moving(broke down). if you buy a pre emissions truck and rebuild the engine and mayor components you still save more money vs lease and maintenance on a new truck with all that garbage emissions.
You can spec a old truck to get good fuel mileage. It's not hard to figure out. I see 389s all the time that get better mileage then my plastic cascadia. And the Volvo is probably the most uncomfortable truck I've ever driven.
Truck companies make common replacement parts “obsolete” all the time (by slightly modifying the same part) on new trucks which kills aftermarket competition and creates supply chain issues when a part becomes hard to find.
Our beautiful 1997 379 sold last month for 75k, with 18 SPD and 3406E. Our two current coronado gliders with 13 SPD and Detroit are holding value very well, listings on truck paper are 75k-100k. 2018 "new" bodystyle coronado with dpf/DEF... 45k on truck paper. Why?... pre-emissions gliders and old iron will always hold value over new junk. The Cascadia junk is like the volvos, cheap plastic garbage with terrible resale value. I agree with you 💯.
I don’t drive OTR and drive a box truck, so obviously there are some different dynamics, and all the numbers are smaller. But the same principles apply. Thankfully in these classes of trucks (class 4-6), gasoline engines are still an option, so you can still get a new truck but not have to deal with diesel emissions. The fact that you can get school buses and class 6 trucks with gas engines should be a really strong indicator of how diesel emissions are really impacting decision making. I had a convo with a guy who runs a school bus fleet. Said they were replacing all diesel buses with gas as they ended their service life. And they even have an in house maintenance team to help control costs. People would rather get gas mpg, rather than deal with diesel emissions. I own a bread distribution territory. I gave diesel a shot and it was a nightmare for emissions. I had a 2017 Mitsubishi Fuso with a 3.0 turbo diesel, owned from new. I drive about 20k miles a year, so nowhere near as much as OTR drivers. But 80-90% of that is highway (to get to my territory and back) and free flowing country roads. And even when around town it is not stop and go or congested. And no idling. So I’m not putting extra stress on the emissions system. Oil changes and fuel filter at 7,500 miles at the dealership, has a 10k interval. I was getting 10 mpg with the diesel and the comparable gas trucks (most use a GM 6.0) get 7mpg, both figures for loaded box truck. So I was saving $1k-$1500 a year on fuel with the diesel depending on prices per gallon difference. No issues with the drivetrain (125k mile warranty anyway), but the issues with emissions started about the time the 50k mile emissions warranty end. Wonder why it was only a 50k mile warranty, lol. Last year had a PCV filter fail prematurely (which causes a need for extra code resets and programming - something else to charge a stupid amount for) and then the DEF tank needed replaced. These emission errors generally cause a limp mode. The dealership is always backlogged at least a week so have to get a rental truck when the truck isn’t drivable. Spent $3k on emissions repairs and rentals last year. Earlier this year a NOX sensor failed, $1000 repair, $200 tow and $600 rental. Then recently had an EGR leak, $2500 repair estimate. That was the last straw. Didn’t have them fix it as it was still driveable (no permanent limp mode). So $7,300 of additional expenses related to the emissions system in less than two years. More than all of my fuel savings over my 4 years of ownership. And oil/fuel filter changes are $300 on the truck vs less than $100 for the gas, and have to buy DEF. And these issues were from 50k to 85k miles. What’s it gonna do in the next 100-200k miles, scary. For that amount of money you could probably have a brand new gas engine (GM 6.0) installed on a gas truck. Effectively doubling the life of a gas truck for the cost of 2 years of emissions repairs. Traded it in for a new gas cab over engine truck. GM 6.0 engine. Allison 1000 transmission (5 year unlimited mile warranty). A lot more power than the 3.0 turbo diesel also. I bought the diesel hoping to save money, but didn’t work out in my case. I know for extremely heavy loads, especially over a long distance, diesel may be necessary. And for lots of yearly of miles (OTR) you still can make up extra repair/maintenance costs with fuel savings and come out ahead. And the diesel engine should last longer than gas. Or if it is not a rig to make you money, and more of just a luxury item where money isn’t a primary concern, then emission issues probably aren’t a concern. But if someone’s situation is borderline between the two on the financial savings, I’d say gas is the way to go, until they can get these emissions systems more reliable. Cause diesel emissions is probably going to cost you more money, time and frustration than it’s worth for a lot of situations.
Your leaving out the fact that the older truck ran an additional 62 hours over the newer truck.If you average out the fuel cost per hour the older truck is just under $4 per hour more. The fact that it ran similar miles but took longer to do it make me think it was pulling rougher terrain.
With OO's some may not choose to grind numbers. There is give and take. Running paper, maintenance, the look and performance, can all be "worth" the difference to some....others not. Most OO's should love their truck, the last thing I want is the truck eating its own excrement, like the emissions versions do, but I understand these days most don't bond with their truck, and with the new ones I see why.
You might be Right 🤔🤔...But the bottom line is: Older Trk's,the up keep is less $$$.Because they shipper on up keep,parts cost less,man hours is less and don't have to give the shop 1-2 hrs before they know what is the problem...And can say it LOUD BECAUSE IT HAS HAPPEN TO ME!! AND *** Y E S *** I would buy a OLDER TRUCK OVER A NEW ONE. I REST MY CASE!!!
8MPG is total salesman type BS. I work in a mixed fleet of old and new trucks and none of our new Cascadia's or new KW's are getting 8mpg in the real world! We log all the fuel going into the trucks and the difference between the trucks is negligible. While I have drivers show me on the screen their new Cascadia' display screen says 7,8,or 9 mpg, actual fuel use and fill ups says something different. The Cascade's are getting the same amount of fuel as every other truck in the fleet. As part of my job is analyzing expenses such as fuel data, I can look at the spreadsheet and just about guess correctly which customer the driver was dispatched to, even if in the same city, but I don't have a clue what truck they were using. Old or new, they all get about the same mpg caring the same load.
Ohh is it now I can easily get 8.5-8.7 doing no more then driving 60, keeping the door closed, and being smart in the hills. 2016 dd13/dt12 700k. 53+k in the tank
Valid points sir. I will say that a big reason for a long hood for me is ease of working on it. I open my hood and the whole engine is right there vs being tucked up under the firewall. Since I do all my own work, this saves me time and money having more room to work. Another thing is, an O/O making good money normally doesn’t worry about fuel consumption as much as the owner of company trucks. We tend to idle and drive a bit faster because it’s just not as important to us. Yes, we probably should try harder, but we don’t have boss man breathing down our neck to lower idle time or slow down, we do what we want. If it’s hot, I’m running the truck for AC, no one is gunna tell me otherwise. Now, maybe this O/O you compared to IS one of those guys that tries very hard to make as much money as possible, but I think he’s probably more lenient than one of your company drivers, and that does add up quickly. Next reason is… I’ll pay some extra cash to drive a cool looking truck vs an aero dynamic plain Jane curb sniffer. A lot of us become owner ops to stand out, not blend in. We’re proud of what we do and we buy a truck that shows that wether it costs more money to run or not. I don’t try to just throw cash out the window, but I am willing to give some away to be loud and proud, yaknow?
@@divisiondrive7599 I’ll give you an example this happened to a guy that I worked with. He bought a brand new Volvo he was teaming with his wife and the engine blew up at 300 and something thousand miles. They said it was covered under warranty but didn’t fully honor it because of some part that didn’t break. Not sure if have to ask him. They agreed to pay half. The total after them paying for half of the repair was going to be around 40k. He didn’t have it and had to file bankruptcy. Here’s is another example let’s say the truck has to go to the shop for a repair and it takes a month with now it about right due to the supply chain issues. You still have to make the payment on it. A couple times of that and you are in trouble. Buy a truck with cash and fix it as you go. If it doesn’t last long work for a company stack some cash and try it again. Learn to do your own repairs it will save you a ton of money.
@@Cp3659 I understand what you're saying but the issue with the warranty sounds fishy. For one usually when the engine blows the only thing the warranty usually doesn't cover all the parts that specified in the warranty. Also what type of warranty did they get there are several different types of warranties and the things that they cover and don't cover. Also I think if you buy a new or used truck me personally I don't think you should have less than 60k in the bank after you purchase the truck. ( yes this is what I do) because you are running a business and we know that these vehicles are expensive if it's new or old. The issue with being in the shop for a month doesn't happen. I know this shortage is a special occasion and can happen but it's not the norm. Again that's why I say you shouldn't have no less than 60k in the bank because you got that safety-net. I had a friend who bought a 2001 Peterbilt he paid around 55,000 60,000 for it. The engine blew in less than six months and because he didn't have the money saved he was in a pickle. So he had to work for a company. I also was a guy that I've met at a truck-stop just having small talk with in pretty much the same scenario happened to him. Now on the Brightside they didn't have to worry about the truck payment. But I definitely understand why a lot of guys use older trucks. But we have to remember that we're running businesses we shouldn't buy a truck after we buy the truck we have 10 or $15,000 leftover.
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I'm a wrecker driver and the trucks I'm towing in weekly are all trucks with DEF. These things are so unreliable everything from 2014 to 2021 it's the same old story DEF pumps to sensors and replacing the ECM on these trucks. I'm not saying I don't tow older trucks but very rarely and when I do it's for water pumps or air dryers, alternators and they're only down for a day. Where these new trucks are down for multiple days or even a week or two. My cost to come out and tow your rig off the road ranges from $700.00- $1500.00 and I've towed the same drivers and truck in multiple times over the months. So where has your fuel savings gone? This is just my experience and wanted to share.
Leftists and ecoterrorists will deny your experience anyway 🕳
Then they will call you racist and rig elections to prove their lies are the new truth
So lack of maintenance?
@@larsradtke4097 Yep, many of them do extended oil changes like the manufacturer states, which is insane, old or new truck, the service intervals are the same depending on conditions. So, service every 10,000 to 18,000 miles, not 30,000 or 50,000! That EPA truck produces tons of soot, and what is not burned and blown out the exhaust collects in the motor, you may as well just pour sand in the crankcase, because that is all the soot does, it grinds down the internal parts because it is not being removed and is left to accumulate. That soot gets in the sensors, which are rarely if ever changed, even after the truck is towed to the dealer where they install a $6000 turbo when all the guy needed was an $85 intake manifold pressure sensor or the $100 exhaust back pressure sensor, or more than likely BOTH sensors replaced. And he could change these in the parking lot. $6000 and a truck still in limp mode, or $200 and the truck runs down the road?
Same with the DPF/DOC systems, they have to be removed and cleaned periodically, the same with the SCR system and the fuel doser system.
If you are going to own one of these trucks, you need to know the systems and how to drive one, do not lug the motors! Anything under 1500 rpm under load and you are abusing the motor, beating the liners out of the block. 1600 to 1900 rpm under load, and learn how to downshift.
I could go on and on, but few if any ever listen, "I got a warranty"... Big whoop, you will be out of business in a few months when these systems start to fail. A few hundred bucks and elbow grease, not covered under warranty vs the tens of thousands of dollars the shop will cost you. I like my way better.
New truck nightmare, turd eater engine with a butt plug muffler
@@kris856 And they will attack our capitol to Destroy our democracy! They will beat and kill police officers while they carry blue lives matter flag!
While that new junk is sitting in the shop, me and my 1996 W900L 3406e Cat are steady get'n up the road at 6 & 6.5mpg making money💰👍🏿
Same with my 2004 W9 and it depends if I’m trucking in the south or west coast. I’ve never spend 6k on fuel in one month even when I run west coast, his numbers are BS
I'm happy to see that!! I'm not a truck driver yet but I'm thinking about it. But if I jump in it, I want an older pre emissions hood truck !! 🤘🏼😎
@@DB7GamingSimulator much better than new trucks and he forgot he did a video on one of his drivers who unlocked the truck and was getting 5.5 mpg in a so called aero truck but they guy spent more in fuel than I do and I have to idle if it’s too cold or hot
As a mechanic I agree with you 100 percent old trucks are better.
Drove a few cats. Just couldn't get used to the smell of antifreeze ;-)
Been in trucking 45 years, and in my opinion DEF and aftertreat is killing trucking. My 2015 cumins at 425k miles went crazy with codes. 6 weeks and $20k later, 2 filter cleanings, 7th injector replaced, and almost every sensor replaced, as well as egr and cooler, I get it back. 5 miles down the road, warning lights again.
This guy's company is probably getting rid of trucks between 350 and375k miles before things go bad. Cost of repairs and down time are the killers. Keep your old truck, rebuild it, repaint it, redo the inside and keep on trucking.
I can say that I drive day cab Volvos and they are getting 8.5 Mpg (2015's to 2019's) and over 9 mpg on the 2020 and newer. I have had 0 issues with them and drive over 2k miles a week. I rarely here of the breaking down. the 2015''s all have well over 1 million miles on them. They are however very very well maintained.
Well said
Just redid mine. For the cost of new junk. VS my old non egr cat bullshit. For a fraction of what the new junk costs
Why lease a old rust bucket Pete or kw my step dad though is Peter built was the best thang ever broken down all the time bering going out dirty has hell grease every where plus his old dodge crap
When the 2020 will be in the junk yard, the 1995 will still be on the road making money
so its 50k for a 07 pete that can be rebuilt and last 20 more years or buy a new truck that is cheaper to throw away every few years and keep paying a new truck payment long after the pete is payed off. this guy is missing a HUGE part of the equation in this video.
its not my opinion that its cheaper to throw new trucks away its what most of the mega carriers do and they wont do anything that that costs them unnecessarily.
@@layzboy2011 agreed..
'97 here, with over 2 mil miles ... I Love my fuel cost, and she looks beautiful rolling down the road
@@layzboy2011 It's about 8 or 9 years on a new truck, but the cost of running it due to DEF crap exceeds maintaining an older truck inDEFinitely. see what I did there. LOL
And that’s a fact too, $40K to rebuild a 2014 mx13; I can tell you that this 2014 t680 it’s gone for parts already and I’m looking after an older Detroit 60 with no emissions as of right now.
if your going to compare fuel costs, include the DEF costs for the newer truck
Its like $30 a week more. Doesn’t change the figure that much
@4:47 it shows run time, the older truck had 62 hours more run time in the same period. fuel cost per hour the older truck is only slightly higher. $27.47 for the newer vs $31.35for the older, so using the run time of the new truck the old truck would have cost $6099.97. Huge cost difference, truly junk.
@@calvinbarnes1721 Not really, the extra run time could just be down to the driver forgetting to turn off the truck to prevent it from idling.
@@youngpatrick29, lucky you, my one use to do $10 a day, and before you’ll say something is wrong, was like that for all 5+ years I owned it and DEF consumption was the same all the time, when running good, in wintertime was double, also double for every time was something wrong on after treatment system. Also truck was at dealer and my mechanic lots of times and they had everything working properly on truck, including after treatment. Not to mention Canada with its cold winters, frozen DEF pumps and doble, or even more ,price for DEF.
Don't forget the repair cost of the def system
Medium-sized carriers and mega-carriers have back-up trucks during downtime, making emission-trucks usable, where as owner ops(one man show) cannot afford any downtime. Hence the preference for more reliable trucks. Good fuel economy is useless when it is parked at the shop, with large overhead.
Definitely can’t afford down time with a 3k note in a truck that won’t let you cheat the clock
Yea I know a guy with two good ol boy square nose Pete's, guess what they're sitting in his yard while he's driving someone else's t680 because those old pieces of shit can't stay out of the shop for any amount of time whatsoever and he went broke
My 7 axle set up, a 1999 379 ultra cab 3406e putting 600+ to the ground with a 13 spd and 3.55 rears, 110 gal tanks x2 grossing about 70K just did a 750+ mile run from outside of tulsa (west) to the other side of cincinnati (north) on 130 gal of diesel, no def. I had a little extra miles and idled quite a bit. No, it's not 7+ mpg, but I was also running up hills at 70mph through MO and on the turnpike in OK running 75. When I came up to a truck running 65, I was able to QUICKLY AND SAFELY change lanes and go around WITHOUT holding up other traffic. The load paid $5400, so after fueling in OK, $350 for 125 gal, I grossed over $5000. Truck and trailer are paid for. I like my math more......
I like that math too. Lol
Damn right
Well said
I own a cat 3406e as well
Would never trade it for new shit ever
Never let's me down Ever
Yes sir I like that math as well!!! LMAO
@@TuffBurnOutTeam the 3406E is the best of the 3400 series Cats.
Try using a new truck up north, we run pre emissions in Alberta because at -40 new trucks don’t run. This is fact...
I’ve set more in the shop with a new truck new trucks are junk they get great mileage because there broke down all the time this guy is full crap
@@deiseldog3
But this is the rub and you pointedthis out: fuel expense may be the biggest expense but it's not the only expense.
But how about driving an older classic? I think I would give up on mile per gallon to have the pride of driving one of those rigs. Where's the pride and driving something that looks like a spaceship?
Yeah the DEF freezes up and they don’t run.
Yup 2mpg ain't worth freezing to death in the middle of nowhere with no cell service.
@@mintyman1968 diesel gels at -12C. Not sure what the difference is.
Fair points but you failed to consider a couple things:
-Typically a guy with an older truck owns it. 0 payment which gives you the freedom to say no when rates get cheap
-175000 plus warranty costs of say 20000 creates 195000 in debt plus your interest cost
-def cost
-an older truck you typically have equity and can sell at any time
-you’re always buried in those aerodynamic trucks until 6 months before your lease-contract is paid
-drivers that drive older Pete’s and kw’s typically have more mechanical skills, are better drivers and save the company money with on road issues
- all new trucks work much worse in extreme cold and have issues which is important to consider if you run in Canada.
-too many proprietary parts on new trucks. Ie moulded coolant hoses.
Anyone the ran a Volvo in northern Ontario would know what I’m talking about.
Spoken like a guy who has never actually driven a loaded mile
as a "desk" jockey his job is to keep costs down, and run a more efficient company
I’d like to audit him. Cost savings of a younger dispatcher at near minimum wage that might make some mistakes but his salary is lower so he’s worth it in savings. Turn his office lights off when he’s not seated and adjust his thermostat as well. Keep tabs on computer data and make sure he’s not doing anything inefficiently.
Typical Greater Toronto Area trucking business, pay tax payer sponsored temporary foreign workers minimum wage, get incentivized governmental contracts for doing so, and then lecture everyone on cost savings from a pure “business” standpoint. The majority of Canadian truckers, owner operators and businesses would whole heartedly disagree with him.
@@ry9756 Nothing like paying the government to get run out of business. A lot less accidents on the 400's in 2007.
@@blauer2551
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Did anyone also notice the difference in Engine Run time, 60 more hours on the peterbilt. Either a lot of time idling or slow streets and stoplights to do the same mileage.
Yep. Noticed that too. Engine run time, and idle time was much higher on the older truck where it was running. Stuck in traffic jams? Who knows. This guy is painting this picture with a broad brush. All depends on what you are doing with that truck, and where.
@ThePatUltra Man there is a few on here that are, that worries me...hard to get a guy like me running my type of truck but new guys that don''t know...gotta warn them at least
Start that truck once a week, that's what I was taught a cold engine will rattling bang for an hour until it warms up and then it will smooth out and sound nice and quiet and how much wear do you think you got in that engine when it was rattling and banging and beating itself to pieces until the parts warmed up and everything became true in that engine again that half hour to hour of beating in vain will give you 10 times the wear of letting your truck idle overnight that's in cold weather granite but it is true
@ThePatUltra huh! yeah! wth...
About 1 gallon per hour on a new engine for idling. I'm not sure what the idle consumption is on a older engine.
😆 he says they don't have emissions issues anymore. This dudes delusional! Why do I spend all day diagnosing new trucks emissions issues then Ronan?
You're kinda missing the whole picture if you only look at fuel consumption to determine operating costs between trucks. Truck parts for trucks made in the 90s are far simpler and less complex to replace than newer trucks with loads of sensors and electronics incorporated into them. Not only that but the parts themselves cost more for new trucks, and there's just more of them. Maybe with a large fleet of trucks you can get contracts with parts dealers to get a discount for new parts but us small guys do not have access to such opportunities.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Facts son!!!!
Great point and true.💯🎯
Cost of parts for all trucks is going up rapidly.
@@kevinrichardson7415 same as everything, welcome to inflation
"They prefer not to be micro managed" Ya think?
I'm a 35 year ready-mix concrete operator. I've had 8 brand new units over my career and can say without hesitation that the older trucks were far more reliable and able to be serviced/repaired by our mechanics shop than the late models we drive today. Warning lights and derates are common with new ones which often results in the truck gone back to the dealer for repair.
Not to mention tow bills
He speaks like a man with a lot of new trucks he needs to sell! 🤫🤫
Big trucking companies try to sell off their trucks before they need extensive repairs.
Same with leased cars, people turn in their leased cars before the big repair bills hit and the guy who thought they got a smoking deal on that Porsche SUV they bought for 20k used that retails for almost 100k new, and then the first repair bill hits and they find out why it was so cheap. it's just good business sense for them to get rid of trucks almost out of warrantee.
Lol
@@highjix ohhhh yeah, thanks for the economics lesson… but I think the theory of dumping something right before it starts having major problems is the target every person, and business, that owns items that fall in the “liability” column do, individual people do this with their 25k dollar Nissan , it holds with aircraft, helicopters, boats, lawnmowers., cranes, tractors, .. basically what the point I’m making is, that’s just common sense, even though sense isn’t so common these days..
Also sounds like he doesn't drive them either.
Yeah seriously, I drive a BRAND NEW 2021 and I'm getting 6.5mpg on average not the 8 or whatever he was suggesting
I've been truck spotting for 16 years and my whole family has been truck drivers. The only trucks I ever see on tow trucks are new trucks. Old trucks will last forever if taken care of. The new stuff you'd be lucky to get a year out of it without major issues. "2016-2017 the truck stopped having problems." Biggest lie I have ever heard about trucks in my life. New trucks are so unreliable it's a joke.
i feel the same goes for all these new cars with so many unnecessary things they add for "luxury" or "efficiency" just a bunch of nonsense to get you back in the shop within a few months. Im my opinion its blatant planned obsolescence by the manufacturers they dont build these things to last they want you in the shop giving them your hard earned money as often as possible.
Bless you!!!Old trucks never die!!!
2021 cascadia transmission failure at 9000 miles
@@sandasturner9529 oh my god I dont doubt that. The funny thing is all these mega carriers waste more money on buying new trucks then they would fixing older stuff.
@@cabovercody4314 many vehicles experience low mileage failures. Thats why you get a warranty, could have been a dropped transmission or something.
One of the most dangerous things on the new trucks is the "adaptive cruise control." My sensor picks up on overpasses, thinks I'm getting ready to hit something, and applies full brakes, along with a beautiful red dash alarm warning of an imminent collision. When that happens at 3:00 in the morning, and you're 78,000 pounds, it gets your attention! My truck is a 2018 T680.
Yep, I don't even use mine anymore
Holy shit that's insane.
The internationals will sometimes do that too, usually when someone is switching lanes, it thinks it truck will hit them, full brakes.
@@FaZeredemption3 Un-f*cking believable. And I'm sure the way the law is written and the contract the driver has to sign, if the god damned truck slams on the brakes like that and THAT causes an accident, it will be the DRIVER'S FAULT.
Same thing on freightliner, I'm in a 2023 Cascadia does it all the time
The biggest expense in trucking is taking cheap freight. Guys hauling $3+ per mile are probably more worried about staying out of the shop then mpgs.
Finally someone with brains !
Talk about brother...he failed to mention the part prices for older trucks too
Exactly!
You have to break eggs to make an omelet. With only 11 hours a day to drive you got to maximize it and if that means burning a little more fuel than what it means.
People that worry about 1/10 of a mile per gallon of fuel savings are either managers of a Mega Mill like Schneider Warner Swift are CE Eggland or they're taking slim margin cheap freight.
👏👏👏
Exactly, I have an agent getting me over 4 per mile and the reason he gets it is because I pull Conestoga and trucks are reliable. I'll eat fuel cost vs risk of elog shutdown and stupid break downs any day. And there's a lot to be said for big brother getting us to be conforming robots.
His math is wrong please add the Def cost once he adds that cost he'll get the true cost
He also didn't mention his 3 oil and filter change compared to your 10 to 12 in a year
Honestly DEF usage is so low, at least on my truck, that it's really not a direct factor. Emissions issues would/will be but not the DEF consumption itself.
Talking 150+ mpg on local/regional style with a truck pushing air harder than most due to having absolutely no aero.
Still have to factor it in no matter what
Also 9 times out of 10 older models don't have apu I'm sure the newer models do need to compare it with one that both has apu and then tell me the results
@@montecarloblacq You said "add the def cost"
I do add the def cost. I'm saying it's almost nothing. It's more than offset by fuel mileage gains, therefore it's a non-issue.
That's the very definition of factoring it in.
I can't wait till these new electric 'trucks' come out. This is going to be a lot of fun to watch from the sidelines.
That should be fun to watch indeed .
Lol. I can't imagine where the electricity will come from! Oops.
Hydrogen is the next gen for trucking unless diesel and diesel engines gets a major innovation within the next 10 years
@@sharkskin3448 15 minutes to fuel a diesel but how many hours to charge an electric??? That'll throw a wrench in ETA to where someone's going plus the driver's hours of service and schedule will be chaos running later hours when he'e sleepy. Umm, not good.
@@muffs55mercury61 To be honest if the electric tractors come in to use they most likely going to be short haul runs. What will most likely happen is when a driver gets to the end of a run away from their terminal they will find a place to recharge and send the driver to a hotel overnight. I can not see them ever going OTR for long runs.
Old trucks are "junk" - until a chip shortage happens.
Love those old Detroit Diesel two-strokes. No electronics or chips required.
stay tuned, i will be doing a follow up video on Old trucks. and bringing up the DEF, Emission Sensors, and other issues that people have brought up.
I listen to some of those two stroke Detroit diesels on TH-cam and my ears started to ring. Reminds me of a heavy-duty forklift I drove in a former life before my former life they had to Detroit Diesel in it. Even though I wore earplugs it seem like I lost hearing every day I drove that thing.
Hahaha, Detroit Diesel 2 strokes burned or leaked more oil than a new truck used in DEF.
As a truck mechanic, 2 storke Detroit are cool but they suck. Horrible mileage, hard to work on, unreliable and leaky. Computer control is the way to go. But get a simple basic one. Series 60 gets amazing fuel economy. Better cold starts. Still runs million miles without breakdowns.
You have to compare the whole cost of ownership, not just fuel. And when you do that the pre emissions trucks will come out as the undisputed winner.
When "Smart Trucking" allowed his wife to post their numbers. He blew your argument out of the water.
Our cost per mile were the same, his truck is paid for. And I pay $4500 a month.
His numbers were $1.07 a mile, no payment.
My numbers $1.07 a mile. Where .52 of that was truck payment. And I've funded a maintenance account at 7 cents a mile. But paid for all maintenance through my business account. Allowing the maintenance fund to grow, as it should.
When the dust settles. I've made more profit. End of story
Old vs New is for ego's only. My bank account has no ego
@@thetruckerslearningchannel3211
You pay $4500 a month.
What is this ? A mortgage?
@@smk4902 basically. It's a truck- a house on wheels that's designed to pull houses.
When they started with D.P.F. systems that's when it all went down hill
You are absolutely right brother!
And EGR systems.
He speaks like a man that’s never driven a truck. Most would take an older truck over the newer plastic junk. My Columbia glider will drive circles around that newer junk!
When I look at a truck my question is always can I retire in this truck, I bought a new 2006 T600 and didn't think it would last this long, but anything newer is not going to be trouble free, I'm actually planning on putting my 1992 FLD120 back on the road, won't cost $20K to rebuild that truck and bring it back to a nice driver, stay strong
What's she got in her
Clearly you're preaching to the new guys fresh out of driving school that don't know any better
I will be finishing my driving school soon. How can I choose an older truck but will give me less problems? Thank you in advance.
Have the truck looked over by a reputable mechanic of your choosing if you don't know what you're looking at on the truck. If the seller won't allow it walk away because it's not hard to spend over $20k on repairs
@@jessiehodges1513 Thank you. If you were in the market NOW, looking at online truck listings: What make / model and year older truck would you choose? As a newbie, automatic is a must :) Thanks again.
You're not going to find many pre-emissions trucks with an automatic transmission
Nice observation at the beginning where you flag up you are sharing your opinion. I believe that the biggest pros to an old truck are also depreciation. If you maintain an old iron and spend a bit more with fuel compared to a newer truck, in the end, the depreciation for an old truck is significantly less compared to a new iron because it costs around three times more than an old truck.
Anything with a dpf system is absolute junk.
Absolutely right. I work at international dealer. You can't keep them out of shop no matter who works on them this guy knows nothing.
He works for a company, he has the stats. I think he know what he's talking about.
In the ag industry it’s exactly the same.
@@angelozararis8096 you could have just said you work at international, we got the picture, lol, MaxxfArce
you know what dpf is, right? Well, i dont think so.. its just a filter, that after a while it gets burned out the remained bad stuff. Thats all... its very unlikely to fail, almost every time its because the driver, or the bad usage, like always in urban area, always in mines, inside company areas etc... where it cant be burned out, and once its clogged its done... Also for the EGR, MAF,MAP etc.. .sensors, you just have to clean them with hand by yourself, or at the dealership by professionals. All in all, you just have to maintain the new stuff, and it will be as long living truck as the old ones, or more. And even if something fail by manufacturer mistake, warranty still covers it and they will replace it for 0 money, problem solved, probably never will happen again. Also, it really does matter what quelity fuel you using, if you are going for the cheapest as possible, its gonna be a short living truck, newer ones are much more sensitive to this, i've seen many times companies using the cheapest garbage fuel, they dont care about the truck because after 3 years when our warranty last they just give it back to the dealer and bring out new ones. It doesnt matter if after a couple more years it will fail to pieces under the new owner... Oh, and the oil change... its also a thing companies doesnt like to do, it cost money, and its takes away hauling time, so this is also an other reason why new trucks fail quick, bad usage
Unfortunately, 72.4 % of the breakdowns on our 2018 2019 fleet have been computer issues. Not computer logs but engine and transmission computer shutdown or complete failer. Computers are the weakest link in trucks.
Yup..
Exactly
When your new truck is broken down sitting in the shop waiting for parts, I'll haul the load in my old truck and be making the money while your trying to figure out a way to make your lease payment.
thank you!!!!
stay tuned for part 2 coming out this Sunday, very funny video and it addresses most of your comments.
'21 been down for a week today (costing me the $11K grss) for an air filter & tire sensor; meanwhile, my '97 is running strong (costing me fuel)
“We have more problems with our tires than we do our emissions” says the man who probably runs recaps
I..... don't know how to feel about this.
lol
Grade A casing recaps are just as good as virgins as long as you maintain proper air pressure in your tires. Vast majority of tire blowouts is due to driver error regardless if it is virgin or recap.
But the difference in fuel cost literally makes up for his lease cost. That leaves them DEAD EVEN. Now account for parts etc and the old truck leaves the new one in the dust.
yea, they ignore that but the more miles and a beating that new truck takes the more it will start succking out dolla bills, and people don't understand that paying for something for 5 yrs is a long time!
Straight facts
New trucks are warrantied. What parts cost?
@@0xsergy The part "May" be warrantied, but the tow bill, labor and down time are not. Jus Sayin
@@0xsergy You will not find a shop that will rebuild a new truck for free, the parts are warrantied sure, but when a tractor trailer mechanic makes $75/h, and the shop charges twice that or more depending on the shop, and a engine rebuild takes 3-4 days, so roughly 24 hours of labor, that's $3600 alone spent on repairs, whereas the older trucks, you replace simple parts that take a few hours at most to replace/repair, it'll maybe cost you $500-$1000.
In short, newer != better.
I just came over from a driver’s video. He went back to an old truck because his new truck was in the shop once a month because of bad sensors. He paid $200K for the new truck and $70K in repair for the first year. Sold it off and bought a 1995.
In the comments of that video, trucker after trucker said the same thing; the new trucks are crap.
How about put a pre emissions engine in an "aerodyne" truck? Best of both.
there called glider trucks but now the epa is cracking down on the people selling them sadly
Illegal to do ….
@@romeo00132008 no it ain't. If you have paperwork for the engine showing it's pre year 2000 it's not illegal to have it in a newer truck.
@@TaylorHaubrich
My best recollection is that in Canada goes by the manufacture date of the body and not the manufacture date of engine.
@@michaeldunagan8268 if they don't go by the body or the engine what do they go by and I'm glad I don't run in Canada cause traudue sucks butt 😆
That’s just what we need. Another desk jockey trying to tell us what we should buy. I doubt he’s ever drove a truck in his life.
if you like flushing your money down your exhaust pipe that is up to you, all he did was give facts to support his opinion.
@@highjix facts and opinions are 2 different things buddy
@@mulisha0351 if you think him showing you the numbers is an opinion, then please by all means show your facts, if you can.
@@highjix let's get this straight first, a fact is a fact regardless of opinion. An opinion is someone's take on it. Facts don't care about someone's takes or thoughts on it. So the wordage needs corrected.
GrizzlyAaron He never said it was the same thing. He said that he was using facts to support his opinon.
So true I love going to the dealer every few weeks and then getting another new truck cause they can't figure out what's wrong ,and the reassuring feeling I get when the guy at the front desk doesn't know how to check the mileage or what odometer means.
The problem with electric trucks. Ok everything goes electric! Oh it’s going to be so much cheaper! Oh well how much tax is going to be added to electricity or mileage to make up for the tax loss in fuel. Nobody is talking about that.
That just goes away like the emissions I think.
Also where does the electricity come from? Grids are already strained. Now battery as a service might work. UPS buys 50 trucks and instead of those trucks sitting and recharging the tech swaps the batteries. So a set up in which an empty battery is swapped in a minutes for a fresh one then the old battery is trickle charged and checked.
If the batteries could be swapped then the truck doesn't need huge packs just enough swap stations along the way.
@@kineticinstallationspecial5775 Road upkeep is paid for by fuel tax. trucks do the most damage to roads. So the thing doing the most damage pays no taxes?
BINGO!!! They will never be cheaper to operate. The government will create a nice new tax package to make up for the loss of fuel tax revenue.
@@cb-gz1vl I dont understand why the UPS Electric Truck did not put a solar panel on top of their truck. You could easily fit 2kw Solar Panel in there..
That pencil pusher couldn’t be more wrong. Been driving since ‘96. I’ve owned paper logs trucks. I would never touch an ‘08 or newer rig with a long pole. The only ppl breaking down on the road with older trucks are the drivers that don’t service their trucks on a regular basis.
stay tuned, i will be doing a follow up video on Old trucks.
pencil pusher. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Why do you have to call him a pencil pusher? lmao.
😅 @ pencil pusher. Not fair bro.
I'm 6'2" and like the W900 our company has better than our 19 Cascadia. KW rides better, is warmer in -40 weather, corners better and looks WAY cooler. Old truck rule. You'll never see a 15 year old Volvo, Cascadia, or any other new crap pile.
Repumping exhaust through the motor is by definition ruining the motor.
Sort of. These engines produce much less spot through efficient combustion. You can reduce this further by running a good fuel additive and not driving aggressively. As carbon builds up, you can get a DieselForce service that returns it to like new condition.
@@Misesian86 you're not right about 'efficient combustion'
emissions standards are VERY sticky on NOx levels. NOx levels are highest during a nice clean (hot) efficient lean burn. So, manufacturers will actually run dirtier, cold, less efficient (fuel rich with more soot) to hit NOx targets. then the aftertreatment will deal with the soot (dpf) and finally NOx emissions are "tuned" via def in the SCR. gross, right?
statistically, an intact EGR will HALF a diesel engine's life expectancy :(
@@GordonTurnerr where is your data to show that a SCR and EGR equipped engine is running rich and that being equipped with EGR reduces engine life by half?
Any SCR, EGR equipped engine will go 1 million miles like any pre emission engine, you just need to clean some of the components a few times during that 1-1.5 million miles; EGR cooler, EGR Valve, turbo housing. EGR will not impact longevity if you follow recommended maintenance intervals. Modern oils effectively handle the impact of EGR.
I run multiple trucks myself, I will only buy 2016 or later models. I would never consider running dinosaur technology that can’t compete with the fuel, maintenance, and uptime benefits of the newest models. Your experience with modern equipment will depend on how you maintain it. The manufacturers spell it out for you, most ignore it though.
Every owner operator i know that bought new have had issues with the newer truck and the dealership don't pay the payments while it sits in the shop. One in general was on the hook more in the first year than his older truck was in its life of ownership. He replaced the older truck to try and prevent spending time in the shop. He wished he wouldn't have bought the new truck. Also, fuel mileage is based off driving habits and weights being hauled. I drove my 86 peterbilt 362 cabover and after I built the engine to my specs I averaged 6.8mpg and I have a freightliner that's getting 5. Another issue i see is the electric trucks, if they are so efficient and if electric is supposed to be the way to go why are they trying to be more aerodynamic and so ugly? If the electric was so good they could be using w900 and 359/379 Peterbilt cab and chassis but no, they are using all plastic ugly garbage. Nobody wants to be told what to drive and told when to drive if they own their business. I believe the government is getting into everyone's business and creeping into things they should stay out of.
"Tap into the drivers analytics..." This guy talks alot and is a true manager. Managers manage people processes and procedures. He loves numbers, it shows with his in-depth and detailed charts graphs and spreadsheets. He is good at his job and probably does a great job at saving his company on expenses and costs.
However, I would challenge this guy to get in a truck and drive for a year and run 'his' numbers.
He couldn't. He has no on-road clue. It's painfully obvious.
@@cerberus_the_rapper3096 what’s wrong with that? If your job is to drive trucks then your job is to drive trucks. If his job is to manage company money then why does he need experience driving trucks? You hire different people for different jobs. You wouldn’t go to a nurse for surgery.
@@mannymm7887 Because managers that don't know or care about the people that actually do the work are miserable to work for, and the driver will have zero loyalty to him or the company.
Older trucks are just easier and cheaper to maintain. Not to mention they hold value. A fleet owner like you, will sell off your tractors most likely when that 1/2 million warranty is out.
@ad izzle new ones just dont sound the same even with deleted shit
I have a 2000 W900L, 60 series detroit gets 7.8 mpg.so your numbers are skewed depending on motor, gearing, weight of freight, type of freight and driving style... Way too many variables to consider when comparing old to new. And yes I also have 2 2018 cascadias.
W900 with 7.8 mpg lol what are you smoking bro
Im like 9mpgs. People dont know. Its all about driving skills. Mines 2000 too
@@backontheroadtrucking2263 only if you are alian and driving your 2000 truck on mars..
@@СтепанБандера-ы8у not at all, ive seen many series 60s over 8mpg
@@Tyler-xe1es it’s very rare and you can only get those mpg in aero trucks either Cascadia, Columbia, or Century but no freaking way and not even close in Classics like W9 or 379!
Sorry my man, a 25 year O/O and company owner in Alberta. With such a large difference in idle time and total engine run time you can't discount that. Yes, you're absolutely correct about the dark ages of regen 09 - 13/14 depending in the truck. That being said, you have not mentioned engine HP, driver habits, or manual vs auto transmission all of these having a huge effect on the stats you present here. I will say I'd rather put my money into a specific build for a specific application Ours was super b trains hauling fuel.....I'd put together a set up with a Cummins N14 that would easily blow out of the water the numbers you're giving here, for my company and needs. I love the way you study the numbers numbers, Nobody in trucking an succeed without that detail, but don't be a slave to that computer, we did all that with pen and paper, and we could still figure out what trucks to use on certain runs, and what drivers to put in them.....great content keep it up for all the noobs to the business you'll save them for sure!! Old trucks are not junk bro, you just need the experience to set them up and run them
Also consider that older truck is paid off or easier to pay off. That new truck payment comes no matter what and it's around a lot longer. There's a lot of stress that comes with that.
And if you're into the 500k cycle mentality, you NEVER get rid of that payment.
True.
@ad izzle yeah a payment that keeps coming whether you're running or not whether the market is good or not whether you have health issues or not whether you need to take time off for a loved one or not. Some people just don't want that kind of stress.
That’s what he’s not addressing, a overhauled and fully gone thru old truck will give you life with no payment over a course of MILLIONS of miles and multiple life cycles. There is a reason why you don’t see new trucks go into those cycles because EVERYTHING on the truck which is thousands and thousands of more complicated and expensive parts will have broken by then. If you want to goto the promise land which lemme tell you what that is. A old school truck with no payment and 90% of the truck is in Good working order you can make and KEEP and good portion of your money. That’s the promise land and everyone who is there knows it. Show me a paid off cascadia with 2 milli on it on its second overhaul with no issues going down the road 🤪. Go ask a shop or dealer why they rarely every overhaul modern trucks. It’s because there is so much else wrong with them inframing the engine is pointless the whole thing is falling apart and malfunctioning.
Very true. Suppose you get hurt, or have a medical condition that takes you off the road for a few months. You can park your paid for large car, and not worry. Your 2020 Freightliner has a $3000 note every month. Your just hire a driver to run your truck? Oops! New driver didn't see that post when he was backing and turning to hit a dock. There goes a few thousand for a new bumper and a hood.
Not me! Old school, I'm no fool!
The elephant in the room, for a one man one truck ownership operation. The downtime will put you completely out of business with an emission truck, combined with the exorbitant shop rates, assuming they can even get you in. This individual is applying all the numbers to his company, where he can afford to have 10% of his fleet idle in the repair shop and still operate.
Ya, so to run new trucks, you need 2 to 3 trucks for every 1 that you purchase. You'll be needing the other two as spares. Where's the savings? Explaining to customers and clients that you can't get the load delivered is not a conversation you want to have and it can put you out of business. I've always said that it's ridiculous to spend tens of thousands to buy fuel Mileage. You'll all spend any savings on the initial purchase and repairs and down time. Better off to keep the vehicle that you know.
I would rather spend $80k max for a 2008 post ELD & pre emissions truck with 350k miles & an already complete rebuilt engine (dt466) and transmission (eaton 9) than a new post ELD & post emissions truck which will have already been built cheap to begin with for a $150k starting and not built to last.
If you DO NOT govern a 2021 Cascadia or any newer truck to 62mph, it will use the same fuel basically as an old dd60. So his comparison on fuel consumption was most likely misleading. Was the old truck that used more fuel governed like the new truck that used less fuel? I keep my 06' dd60 around 64 and I'm always 7+ mpg's loaded.
Yes sir. He kind of forgot about mentioning that.
If you, the o.o , has zero self control.....
A 2007 isn't really what most older truck owners consider an older truck.
That's in the danger years.
Most guys are looking at dead simple machines from the 1990s and even earlier.
They DIY almost everything, if not everything, and it takes something catastrophic to require a tow...not just a sensor going haywire or a bad batch of DEF.
The fuel economy is a bit lower but it's a fairly easy tradeoff for unplanned downtime, tow bills, scheduled and unscheduled regens, filter cleanings, etc.
The argument for mass produced mega trucks is a lot easier to make for a fleet with unknowledgeable drivers with no incentive to do anything themselves or learn about it.
That said, I went from a 1988 to a pre-owned 2014 and the 2014 is a lot more comfortable and was inexpensive enough to justify it for now.
It's not worth 6 figures though. Not even close.
Yes you're 100% right
Finally someone says how it really is! But a lot of drivers are only arguing that they are not right in what they say! Plastic Freightliner or Volvo MPG is over 8 mpg and old PIT or KW 5 mpg how will you do it and how lucky you will be! 😄👍
I can prove him wrong with my 379 pete.. i have it geared right and i average loaded 7.2 and best 7.6mpg.. with a 60 series
Doesn't matter. Whatever you do to that brick of a Pete to make it more economical, a modern aero will still do twice as better if you do the same things to the aero.
Those bricks are ancient junk, just let it go bro.
@@angrysocialjusticewarrior no that's where you wrong. New trucks have tons of sensors and have to run def which ruins mpg each times it runs. There aren't any mods you can do to the new onese to make them more powerful or more efficient like you can do a older truck. You cant do the same things to newer trucks.
@@angrysocialjusticewarrior so twice as better is 14.4 mpg😂😂.. i have 5 trucks all pre 2000 3406e and 60 serios and they make me lots of money. 200k this month alone. If you love your new iron then great run it.. will stick to what works for us
@@angrysocialjusticewarrior well that's your opinion and idgaf about it. Simple
The Pete had considerably more idle time. Thatll affect the fuel costs.
Not by much in this case. Idling only burns about 0.8 gallons of fuel per hour. With 28 additional hours of idling that month, that’s only 22.4 extra gallons. At $3/gallon, that’s less than $75 extra.
And a considerable more run time 62 hours more and ran less miles
Good catch! I did not notice that.
I try not to idle my tractor but then again I return home most every night. Cummins claims that for every 10 hours of idling the truck at low idle equivalates to 600 miles driven down the highway fully loaded. Cummins further claims that if idling cannot be avoided is to raise the RPMs to 1,100 so that way the cylinder pressures can burn all the fuel and it just seems like it's less wear and tear on the engine from the way they write it. The only idling Cummins accepts is to let the engine cool down after a long haul on the highway.
Remember, every revolution of the crankshaft is another connecting rod wrapping around the crankshaft and another Revolution the crankshaft goes around inside the main bearings. Every revolution of the crankshaft causes the piston and its rings to go up and down in the cylinder again. Every revolution of the crankshaft causes the valve train to operate and Springs to be compressed and be compressed again. Every revolution of the crankshaft rotates the flywheel and turns the input shaft of the transmission again. Idling is not free.
Heavier loads too, if you look at his numbers he doesn't talk about
It’s all about total revs
You should have compared gallons/liters instead of price. Fuel prices can vary from place to place and even from day to day. I agree newer trucks have better mileage, not just because they are more aerodynamic, but because they have smaller engines too. In "flat land" trucking country, that may be great, in mountain states, extra power is a must.
We agree a hundred percent! Mountain states are also better handled by manual transmissions! Those who can handle logging in the mountains will tell you, nothing beats an 18-speeder in the mountains
all the hood super truckers sitting on the floor with their shifters scraping the roof are gonna come and tear you a new one 😂
You obviously dont know what a super trucker is there center lane larry.
Yep
They can’t afford to
@@48statenomad lmmfao !!!@@@@ get emmmm!!!!!
Already did. 😂😂
Well... I’m still driving a 94 379 exhd. No payment, No emissions, No eld. Also the resale on my old truck right now would bring 60-70 k American. A 2018 cascadia will not bring half of that. To each there own.
@@dchawk81 prime sell there used trucks for 35k.
@@dchawk81 ya I know that's old news. since freight blew up the price went up 10k. so that ship sailed without you
@@dchawk81 markets fluctuate now don't they. maybe you haven't noticed so do freight rates. tomorrow it could be all different. my 2021 is less of a truck than my 2018. but the inside sure is a delight. that could change too.
@@dchawk81 hence the price of a used truck chases rates. planning is crucial. best of luck and keep on trucking 🚚
@@dchawk81 wisdom is irrelevant to you. ok 👌
Well looks like the comments section disagrees with the video. I also disagree. I have a 96 W900 with an N14 under the hood. Most reliable truck I've ever owned. If it's in the shop it'll be for little things like an air bag, suspension, etc. No more than 2 days downtime and back on the road. Also, no EGR, DPF, or any other BS.
And when I want to sell it, I'll likely get back every penny I paid for it.
Repair costs takes away the fuel savings by far . I know because I've run both.
Fukin sure does holy shit
Exactly. You have to consider the cursed and insanely-high cost of repairing the DPF system. Thanks but no thanks.
What are some of the cheapest older trucks to repair that you’d recommend to an owner operator
Best comment. We're talking one repair north of $10k vs basic maintenance on an older Series 60 or CAT.
@@hellkitty1014 no, you buy brand new and trade them in every 3.5 years and get brand new again. If older trucks made more sense why do the major fleets buy brand new? Common sense
Your right about most things on here but I've had a lot of older trucks that were 18,000 lbs or so and the newer trucks are 20,000 lbs with all the egr crap and Def crap egr cooler, one box on, and on and on, plus I can work on my old truck myself, new truck's have to go to a shop and good luck getting in (week's sometimes) I agree with you about the newer truck's get better fuel mileage, good for them, I'll spend a little bit more in fuel and will not haul cheap freight...
Say it again!!!! Don't haul cheap freight!!
20 years ago an old timer told me if you drive for fuel you're not making money. Took me 15 years to figure out what he meant. A lot of folks believe that fuel is the drivers biggest cost. It's not, taxes wages and insurance costs are. Without going into a long drawn out explanation I'll just keep it simple. If fuel is a concern you're not making money.
Also, 45,000lbs plus pounds is almost always a cheap load as far as average van freight. It's never been worth the strain on your equipment.
You want to make money? Know what you're going to haul, and what the rates are before you buy a tractor. Purchase your equipment outright. Stay away from cheap and heavy freight. Keep your overhead low (business & personal), and try to save 70% of profits for the lean times. Trucking follows a cycle.....good rates means the industry will flood with drivers and companies....which will drive rates down. When these newcomers fall off, and many will, rates will go back up.
It's a dirty business that honestly needs more regulation, but if you remember these rules your chance of earning a stable living goes up exponentially.
I think you're full of it, Ronan. Check out "Smart Trucking" on TH-cam, he runs old iron and hates the new emissions trucks. They will mess up your fleet. Old iron is tried and true, and if you treat your truck right it'll save you money. Any big strappers agree?
That old black pete has been parked in his yard in TO for years while he drives a daycab local. It's a pig on fuel like they all are but don't disagree with him or he quickly deletes your post. Mostly a good guy with interesting stuff but posts the occasional ridiculous bullshit.
100% true
Big strapper here & I agree 1000% with you💪🏾💪🏾
10/4
Agree to the damn fullest
Ronan I’m sorry but your thinking is off. For example when I was a 5 year old kid My father purchased our 1996 peterbilts 25 years ago they have been paid off for almost two decades. i was a little kid and I’m still using the tractor today in 2021 to make money with no payment old trucks are so reliable they are actually multi generational it’s not even close man. the life cycles on these old trucks is a lifetime . Not 5 years 500k miles and then literally everything on it will need replacing and combine that with dealer wait times of multiple weeks and planned obsolescence forget it. I also own modern trucks including 2021 cascadia and Volvo d13. I can’t believe the trucks we bought when I was kid outperform new units in NET revenue . The new ones need so much maintenance and have so much exponentially greater cost of repair and downtime You will never make it to the promise land of no payments and a beast of a truck. And that’s where you need to be to truly prosper on a fleet level
I would love to do a video on this. Would u be interested. Please email me. Recruiting@ettransport.ca
And, no doubt the 96 Pete is worth more than a 5 year old Volvo today.
My '97 CaT 3406 (over 2 mil miles) is a power house ... my '21 (102K mi is going on 2nd week in shop) . . . extremely hard to compare walnuts and bananas
As a 310T Technician, all new trucks have sensor and DEF/DPF issues. And its getting harder to get sensors and parts. Older Pre Emission Trucks best way to go.
That's why I see tons of new trucks sitting on the side of the road with a repair truck while the old trucks are still hammering down the road. I drive a 15-year-old Freightliner and it never breaks down while another driver in our company has a 2015 Freightliner that is always in the shop. I always hear the guys in the front office bitching about that newer truck because there's always something going wrong with the DEF system or a sensor going out or something.
stay tuned, i will be doing a follow up video on Old trucks. and bringing up the Repairs, DEF, Emission Sensors, and other issues that people have brought up.
I have a 2006 freightliner columbia and love it. Can't beat the reliability of a series 60
@@NorthAmerican-Trucking-News Definitely want to watch the video. I've got the popcorn popping and the drinks are in the fridge.😁
@@NorthAmerican-Trucking-News.... I have a close friend that owns a heavy duty towing business that is a division of a large repair shop he also owns. He has been in the HD towing business for over 26 years now, and he tells me that of all the semis that he tows as a result of engine and transmission (AMT types) related breakdowns... on average over the past 15 years, he "hooks" 8.3 "electronically controlled" trucks to every "One" non-electronic unit.... and his Minimum charge is $800. and goes progressively upwards into the four digit numbers, depending on towed mileage of course.
I just replaced the the turbo on my 12.7 Detroit for $650, how much is a turbo on a new truck?
4800$ for cummins isx engine, just the turbo.
Most likely will need a new actuator which is another 1100$
On Cummins $9000
@@smk4902 😳😳😳
You started out with a 125k Cascadia, the ads you showed for used were 30k for a used cascadia. 95k depreciation over 60 months is 1585/month. That 96 is still worth the same, that 2k a month you keep talking about is really 400/month. Can you honestly say in 5 years you haven’t spent 50k in emissions repairs plus downtime?
I’m not giving my option, but this info isn’t even close to my experience.
Same here.
You got that right ..this know it all is worried about another man's equipment if another trucker prefers old iron it's non of his business the expenses are not his to worry about..bet he has volvo stock
I dont understand why this guy lies ? What is he getting from it ?
@@abdulledaifala8381 probably has a contract with volvo or some kinda mega fleet he's definitely pushing somebody's agenda
Wow, lot of disappointed truckers on here. Instead of making assumptions about this man stats, it would be nice to hear how you truckers stay efficiently . Maybe no one is keeping tabs
In 10 years the 579 Pete will still be around $40k or more and the 2020 cascadia will be worth $40k. Fuck the fuel.
The Fourth Industrial Revolution is going to destroy the United States and Canada with it. The hackers who hijacked the Columbia Pipeline are working for a devil in Europe who is intent on collapsing the world ecconomy as we know it.
@@hudsondonnell444 ur like someone's drunk uncle that just blerts shit at any random moment
@@773alonzo : he may be on to something. Who would ever thought that the “ Russians” could hack a major pipeline and shut it down and fuck the whole east coast of America, just to turn it back on for the measly sum of 5 million dollars. So maybe you should think what you’re saying before any more random shit comes from your mouth. Just saying.
I'm not a 18 wheeler expert, but I had my experience and as mechanic as well all I can say if I buy a truck it'll be an older truck. First of all fuel consumption can be regulated if driving style/conditions do permit it and proper modifications that can meet EPA standards.
A friend bought a Fliner, 2018, his ecm took a dump (one of the ecms) there are several. repair was 11,000.00. Thats over half the cost of a total cat rebuild.
IDK about all the electronic crap - specifically all these damned "collision avoidance" sensors. The best collision avoidance sensor is an aware/alert driver behind the wheel. If I ever buy a new unit (company driver now) it will NOT have those sensors - either they'll be disabled or just not on the unit, period.
My '14 doesn't have any of that. I bought it used. I'm not sure if the company ever had it on but if they did, they removed it before posting it for sale and there isn't a hint of it anywhere.
In the U.S they are planning to make those systems required. It goes back to the micromanagement thing for me.
Yes all those sensors suck! My truck slammed on the brakes because a chip bag flew across the road. Scared the piss out of me!
@@Damo_81 what you can do is put a piece of cardboard in front of the sensor on the outside and it'll be disabled until you remove the piece of cardboard.
@@Damo_81 that would have to suck royally.
currently made the jump to o/o. i purchased an 88' 379 from my uncle who had completely restored it in 07'.. having drove several pete and kw newer trucks, I'll tell you this, my 88 drives straighter, has less vibration, and gets better mileage than any of the new model trucks I've driven. while waiting for plates, i jumped in a 15' pete. it averaged 3.4 mpg, [oilfield, mountain grades, etc..] pulling the wagon in my old girl i am over 5. i call 100% bullshit, i run my logs through keep trucking, have a dashcam and the whole set up, (company policy). anywho my two cents. keep it between the ditches y'all.
I think the main concern of why some drivers avoid newer trucks is exactly what u said at 1:18 . But I would argue that major repair issues started much earlier than 2013 and still continue to 2021 model year trucks. If warranty wasn't there to save these lease drivers while their making payments, they'd be looking to replace a 1 box for 20 grand out of pocket (worse case scenario) and the truck hasn't hit 100k miles yet, sadly these thing do happen even today. Drivers have in the back of their mind that the fuel savings achieved from the DD15 (or D13) is going to be taken away by the greedy hands of the aftertreatment system to fix a faulty sensor or too much soot build up cause the system doesn't want to regen, regardless on weather its parked or moving. Than there's dealerships and other shops to intentionally misdiagnose the issue (or don't know what they're doing) just to get you to part ways with your fuel savings $$. Looking at fuel savings alone is not the full and complete picture in regards to cost of operation... Still this is a good video that will encourage a deeper conversation into making new trucks stay on the road and out of the shop!
And don't forget about the downtime. Most dealerships won't even get to your truck for two or three days. I spent $1000 on a knox sensor. Next truck will definitely be a glider.
Reliability is a major concern. The cool factor is not the main concern. Open the hood on short stub nose " conventional" and you can see it is a mechanics nightmare. ( more shop labor to get to failed part) Big fleet owners with 100 or more trucks is only a small percentage down when a truck lays down. Us one truck owners are 100% down when our truck is down. Refer back to reliability.
There is literally no way a new truck can beat an old truck, sorry.
Until you don't need a driver.
That must be why all the trucking companies use them. Oh wait......
Don't make stupid statements if old trucks r more profitable then why the heck would almost all trucking companies use Newer trucks
Scania 770S
@Thomas B because it is practically IMPOSSIBLE for them to find old ones to provide for 600-700 drivers. Duh!!!!!
Back in the day, Gateway Transportation used to run its semi-trailer tractors for 500,000 miles, then sell them to another trucking company that would run them another couple of hundred thousand miles.
I have a kw 900 year 2000, I get 6.5 to 7 miles , but I drive at 65 and don’t idle . It’s a cat c15 430 hp. I do notice that if I drive faster my mpg goes down quickly. It seems that that is the sweet spot.
The more power you add the better the mileage also.
Have you had the truck on a chassis Dyno yet?
@@Scruggs91 I didn’t know that, but how come big fleets keep it at low horsepower, for them it’s all about saving in fuel.
@@hudsondonnell444 no I have not, where do I get that done?
@@alcazarm7 I’m only speaking for cats. I’ve had a variety of motors and cat for sure is one that you add more power you get better mileage. I didn’t sable with the other motors. Most big fleets don’t have cats either. My current cat went from 4-5 mpg up to 6-7 at 700 hp.
I appreciate this video first starting the debate between older versus newer truck. Well the reasons you went over well stated, I'm a bit miffed at the reasons you did not cover fully in my opinion.
Here in the Chicago, Illinois, area you can go to any used truck dealer and get a 2010 to 2012 Volvo or Freightliner or Mac or Sterling for $23,000 U.S.D. out the door. When those trucks were new, they were sold for well above six digits. Therefore, we're talking about a $7,500 hit in depreciation per year on average. I'm pretty sure the classic flat nose trucks, I mean I think some of them actually gain value with age.
Also, those quote-unquote Fleet tractors will be on the lot for at least 6 months up to 24 months before they are sold where the classic straight nose tractors usually sell within 60 days.
The second bone I'm going to pick with you is that if you have to find that you need to get eight or nine miles per gallon to make money on any given freight then you're hauling Freight that just does not pay enough. Currently diesel fuel is about 350 a gallon here in Chicago and I get about 6 miles per gallon on my 2000 Freightliner Century with a Cummins n14 Eaton 13-speed 3.58 rear axle.
It's not a classic like a Peterbilt or Kenworth or frankly even an FLD, but it's been working for me. If a given load doesn't pay me $2.20 a mile or $95.00 an hour if the load is going less than a hundred miles I ignore it. Also, don't these newer trucks have to regen? This seems to be a waste of fuel.
Third, you laugh off the detriment of having the DEF system go Haywire. You could afford to do this cuz it appears that you have dedicated salary mechanics on staff. I do not have such staff: my main mechanics are Me, Myself, and I. I already have to worry about major components such as the engine, transmission, and axles. I don't need a fourth major component which can be just as expensive as transmission or axles to go kahfluie on me.
Also, an older truck is more flexible and that he can cease making fuel purchases at anytime and park his tractor. Try this with your bank if you try and in the middle of a five-year lease to park your truck for two years and make no payments.
Also, I have a news for you: new trucks breakdown also. This provides the new truck owner the double whammy of having to make a payment while he's not making money and then he has to also pay a mechanic if the job is not covered by the warranty.
Finally, I easily pass newer trucks with their purported 7 to 8 miles per gallon up even only just simple 2% grades. Cars love these type of trucks where they slow down 10 to 15 miles per hour to go up a small hill. I myself would rather have an engine that has ample power to add more fuel to the injectors the chug up the hill without losing more than a couple miles per hour if that. If you're driving 600 miles per day over hilly terrain that's got to make a difference
Which will bring me to my final point: I don't think it's winning Trucking to drive all over the map. One way I keep the amount of Revenue per mile I drive above $2 a mile is I don't take anything out more than 350 miles. It doesn't pay for me to sleep in my truck overnight and eat that crappy food and park in s urine stench parking spot--if I can even find a parking spot after 4 in the afternoon-- all to wake up in an area where there's no outbound Freight. You appear to be at a big company so you have to take any loads pain-free just to keep all your trucks busy.
There is no doubt it's not much fun at times owning a dilapidated older truck. A few weeks ago everyday I worked by tractor something broke on it or fell off of it. Older trucks have a payment of their own and that's parts replacement.
Actually I'll give a bonus argument: I can take my Cummins14 to any heavy-duty tractor repair shop and be assured of at least one mechanic being competent at looking at my engine. Try this with her Mercedes MBE 4000 let alone a 2021 dd15. And when you do find that mechanic that can work on a Mercedes which basically the dds are, you are going to pay a pretty penny just to have them take off all the pollution crap to get to the engine to see what's wrong with it. This is a pretty significant hidden cost of newer engines.
Oh I just cannot stop: I have driven an older Volvo engine and yes it got seven miles per gallon but no it did not maintain its speed up a 2% grade even if I were empty. So you can't crap me that these newer post EGR engines cannot hang with. Cummins N14 with 1.1 million miles on it. These heavy-duty diesel engines do not make the same power within each year are as they do when it was designed without it I don't care what anyone says.
Overhauling my engine a Cummins n14 starts at $20,000 United States dollar at the common shop here in Hodgkins, Illinois. On the Cummins ISX engine the rebuild starts at $35,000 United States dollar. A turbocharger for my engine which is 370-425HP ( it is 370 horsepower most of the time except one on cruise control going uphill will shoot more fuel into the injectors to get the 445 horsepower) is between $500 and $900. A turbocharger for the ISX starts at $3,500. My engine could probably run on turpentine or Petro sludge. You better have pristine fuel if you're going to be running an ISX or any other newer engine.
I've never seen a 13 speed or an 18 speed in a newer truck, they are all 10 speeds or automatics. Any tractor that I was looking to purchase that didn't have at least 13 gear transmission was a deal-breaker for me and I moved to another truck. The gaps between eighth and Ninth gear and specially 9th and 10th gear are just too aggravating.
I don't know if I'd want to go to a mechanical engine, but I'm very happy with this twenty-year-old engine has no EGR and allows me to run paper logs.
Arrhgghhhhhh... I have to keep coming back for more; I watched a video of a host interviewing a loan officer of a lending company. The host was literally taken almost a yard back when he asked a question does it make a difference make a model of what the truck is for a loan.
The Lending officer verified my previous comment that he really doesn't lend on fleet vehicles because there's nothing left in them. He went on to explain himself that it cost him $12,000 USD to $18,000 USD to repossess a semi tractor. Included in this amount is probably the airfare to fly a driver to get the tractor the cost replace all the tires since they're always 0% when they repossess has them and maybe some interior work for the guy that was pissed off that he's going to go bankrupt leasing a new truck.
I cannot understand why the host was taken back by what he thought would be a rhetorical question. Do not think for a minute I'm not jealous of that Peterbilt 389 with the stainless steel air cleaners and the chrome bumper and the hundred lights on his reefer trailer rolling down the highway at night. I would gladly give up on mile per gallon if I could get equipment like that to drive.
And that's what the loan officer said: if you're first getting into the industry buying a tractor get one that's a classic so that way you don't take a bath if you decide you don't want to do it and have to get rid of the tractor.
Remember kids, unless you are a Mega Mill buying thousands of power units annually, you are most likely going to pay manufacturer's suggested retail price for your brand new tractor.
However, when it comes time to trade it in even if it is only three years later oh, you're going to have to let it go at the wholesale rate so that the dealer can make something on it. This 15 to 20 percent difference in like a whole entire ear of depreciation: instead of getting the 3-year price you're getting a four-year price even though you've only had the tractot for up to 3 years. This is an inexpensive way to have control of an asset.
Finally finally; since you deem your old tractors junk, just drop me a line when I can come your way and have you sign the title over to me so I could take possession of them and take this garbage off your hands.
I like your final thought. I'll take that junk out of his hands just tell me when and where🤣🤣🤣🤣
Loved your post 👍👍 A trucker who says it like it is as it pertains to his truck
@@arthurbrumagem3844
Thank you Sir.
I speech-to-text so this program allows me to ramble-on-which I clearly did.
I have nothing against those that want to buy or lease a new truck every-year: God Bless those with such financial means. I just do not possess such financial means so the decision to drive an older truck was sorta made for me.
@@michaeldunagan8268 thanks again, and I enjoyed your “ ramble” 👍
I'd rather quit trucking before driving a Freightliner again. Just personal preference. Take pride in your ride. We spend a lot of time in these machines.
Even comparing just fuel cost and payment between old and new. The older truck will cost you $200.00 more a month by his math, but after 5 years the freightliner is worth $15-$20k the 379 if kept up will still be worth $50k if not more. Your ahead buy $20-$25k with the old long nose 379 and you looked good doing it.
I can tell u don't own lol
@@773alonzo what the f*** does that mean
@@RyanSteele92 lol 😆😂🤣 exactly what I said my guy
Your right I don’t own a truck that runs on the highway. I own a small excavating company with a few body jobs. My highway tractors are a 2000 short nose 379 with a 6nz and a 1999 long nose with a series 60 they collect dust until February and haul north of Yellowknife for 6 weeks that’s all they work. The company I lease my highway tractors to I also rent a little shop from them, they have a 2020 680 sitting at Kenworth for the last 9 weeks waiting for a simple part. Other then an inframe on one of my trucks it wouldn’t sit for more then 2 days. Also there is a national carrier that rents some space they have about 30 trucks and trailers, they were just trying to sell 4 freightliners 5 years old and couldn’t get a bit at 15k took them to ritchies and got 20k each take off ritchies commission and they made 18k a truck. For large companies the throw away trucks make sense but for a single owner operator I just don’t see the benefit. But then again I don’t own a highway truck lol
@@lyledeckert7647 respect
Me, as a seasoned driver will never drive a truck that has E Logs, where did the human aspect go, a human brain is more knowledgeable in making a SAFE decision to drive or not.
The big claim of drowsy driver, as a seasoned driver, your body will get accustomed to working more and sleeping less.
It all goes against professional driver, how about putting more on the non professional drivers that have or are creating un safe issues for the professional driver.
Implementation of stricter laws against the non professional driver, maybe the four wheelers will leave us alone.
Last, have you been a actual driver, no, don't tell me how to do my job
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾 I have seen those points everyday for the last 20 years,you’ve never been wrong about any of that.We can thank “Mega fleets “for lobbying for E- logs works for them
i started noticing in 2015 the horrendous close calls in tn ky and nc (i40, i75) with trucks not cornering curves well AT ALL. had trailers in my lane forcing me to the shoulder. bad training in lane-keeping.
Yeah, you are right. Classic Trucks are less efficient and cost more than recent Trucks. So you earn more money with theses ones.
Okay.
But, let's ask ourselves: why do we work? To get money for the most of us. And what is the purpose of this money? Pay bills, pay house, but also get pleasure in general to enjoy with your family, grow pets, enjoying an expensive car or to build up your house, travelling... All of this is pleasure. So you get money to convert it in pleasure.
From the point of view of a Classic Truck Enthusiast, passionated, i would say this :
Driving a Classic, Straight Piped Peterbilt 379 is a LOT of pleasure. Okay it consumes more fuel but for people loving these classic beauties, its all pleasure to work with.
And you pay this pleasure with the extra money it costs to you compared with a recent truck.
You get directly the pleasure, and all day, during your job.
Literally: working is PLEASURE in a Classic Truck.
So yes, I definitely understand why a lot of truckers keep these Trucks on the road and my personal dream is to have mine and get pleasure all the day while driving, even if I earn less money than a Recent Truck Owner.
Two issues I have with the video.
1. He said he has NO problems for the first 3 years.
* Most O/O can only afford one that is 3 years old or older, so those problems start from day one for us.
2. My 2015 T680 Paccar could only be diagnosed by KW who would charge outrageous prices just to clear engine codes because they really don't know how to fix them. Example: I just paid $2300 for them to change the fuel filters and clear the codes and told me I was good- guess what came back on within 60 miles? You guessed it, I threw away $2300 for absolutely NOTHING.
At least with my 05 379 ANY mechanic ANYWHERE can work on it and ACTUALLY be able to diagnose it.
So it wasn't the emissions that bothered me or the "cool factor", it was the Lack of ACTUAL mechanics KW has. Their more like school girls that Google search your symptoms and read a list of things to check in order,, instead of actual mechanics like the old school guys who could listen to your engine and tell ya what's wrong with it.
My Mechanic had to take a sensor to KW because they argued that it only had one and not two.... that's ridiculous.
you engine is saying that your mechanic needs to put his grandchild through college
If you need a good mechanic in the South Georgia area Moultrie Diesel Services is in my opinion the best to go to.
All it takes is one break down with a new truck and any money you have saved on fuel is gone
Negative, when an old truck breaks down you got a good chance you can fix it yourself instead of being towed away. When you are handy with your fingers of course.
@ad izzle youre not looking hard enough, youre seeing mega fleet carriers with steering wheel holders behind the wheel. Look for the real owner operators on the road and you will see what he is saying.
@ad izzle I have an old 2007 freightliner that I trust a lot more than these newer trucks. I will gladly pay $15,000 to restore my old truck and KNOWING that it’s good for a few years instead of paying $3000+ a month on a newer truck for 3 years
@ad izzle all i see getting towed are new trucks while the 379s and w900s are hauling loads
Lost $11K gross this week, since '21 is in the shop (still) ... '97 workhorse is cashing in (still)
You forgot the new one breaking down 13 times in the first year of ownership. My new KW broke us. The Pete I’m in now is thirsty but at least it can get down the road reliably
It'll only get worse. As time passes people will invest in making parts for old trucks less and less until eventually, those trucks become a huge liability. Where would you even sell a truck that no one builds stuff for anymore?
My 96 w900 gets 7.5 a gallon none highway miles, lots of hills and stops and that’s getting on it every time to get up to speed
Edit: I’m also 100,000 pounds
Look I drove both, Cascadia and Volvos. They are not giving you 8.5-9.0 mpg on a regular basis no matter how you drive. Unless you drive empty all the time. I drive about 63-65mph most of the time on cruise. I barely idle truck because Iam greedy. Average load in the trailer is about 35000lbs. I check tires pressures daily with a tire gauge. I accelerate relatively slowly especially uphill. Currently driving Cascadia with DD15 and 455hp. Previous truck was Volvo with D13 and 500hp. Both of them were giving me 7.0-7.3mpg on average. In my book 7.0 as an average pretty good for a loaded big rig. I just cant see old classic trucks like 379 or W900 giving you less than 6.0mpg under same driving habits. The only reason I don't like driving old trucks is because I hate manual transmissions and Iam lazy to drive it. Also chasing for an improved mileage is not productive anyways. If all trucks on average all of the sudden start being about 2 mpg more efficient, rates will start to go down, since relatively soon everyone will know that you pay less for fuel now. I count my fuel expense as 6mpg and take loads accordingly. Anything better is an extra for me.
I'm a Werner driver. They have me in a 2019 Peterbilt 579. I average 7.5-9.5 mpg depending on where im driving and how heavy. Last load was from Waller TX to Dayton OH with 25k in the back and I averaged 8.9 mpg and 0.7 g/hr idle. Also been down twice because of sensors, one being the def sensor and another the no2 sensor. Trucks at 304k miles I've been driving it since 250k. I'm keeping track of all the numbers incase I ever decide to buy my own truck so I have an idea of expenses to expect.
I get 7.8 to 8 loaded. 9 empty and 10 bobtail. 20 cascadia
Just curious. Did you ever put mpg on paper? I mean compare it to the the trucks dash readout? I haven't as I have never had that new of a truck. Do a month or so on paper to see how it compares.
Im brand new to driving truck and i can say that the industry is on a thin line for me. Companies seem to not care about their drivers and shove automatics, elogs and underpowered engines down their throats. Its all about $$ for you managers/dispatchers and never about creating a healthy work culture. Its bad enough that overtime pay doesn’t exists.
Fuel consumption is a very major feature to consider. Frequency of breakdowns and Maintenance cost can't be ignored too. If new trucks spare parts are too expensive to replace in short term and long term, investors may go for older trucks.
newer truck save more money when they are moving but they spend way more money when they are not moving(broke down).
if you buy a pre emissions truck and rebuild the engine and mayor components you still save more money vs lease and maintenance on a new truck with all that garbage emissions.
FAXXXXX
You can spec a old truck to get good fuel mileage.
It's not hard to figure out.
I see 389s all the time that get better mileage then my plastic cascadia.
And the Volvo is probably the most uncomfortable truck I've ever driven.
Truck companies make common replacement parts “obsolete” all the time (by slightly modifying the same part) on new trucks which kills aftermarket competition and creates supply chain issues when a part becomes hard to find.
A 2019 Freightliners resale value will be $0.00 in 10 years. while a 1999 w9 or 379 will be higher then ever
Our beautiful 1997 379 sold last month for 75k, with 18 SPD and 3406E. Our two current coronado gliders with 13 SPD and Detroit are holding value very well, listings on truck paper are 75k-100k. 2018 "new" bodystyle coronado with dpf/DEF... 45k on truck paper. Why?... pre-emissions gliders and old iron will always hold value over new junk. The Cascadia junk is like the volvos, cheap plastic garbage with terrible resale value. I agree with you 💯.
I don’t drive OTR and drive a box truck, so obviously there are some different dynamics, and all the numbers are smaller.
But the same principles apply.
Thankfully in these classes of trucks (class 4-6), gasoline engines are still an option, so you can still get a new truck but not have to deal with diesel emissions.
The fact that you can get school buses and class 6 trucks with gas engines should be a really strong indicator of how diesel emissions are really impacting decision making.
I had a convo with a guy who runs a school bus fleet.
Said they were replacing all diesel buses with gas as they ended their service life.
And they even have an in house maintenance team to help control costs.
People would rather get gas mpg, rather than deal with diesel emissions.
I own a bread distribution territory.
I gave diesel a shot and it was a nightmare for emissions.
I had a 2017 Mitsubishi Fuso with a 3.0 turbo diesel, owned from new.
I drive about 20k miles a year, so nowhere near as much as OTR drivers.
But 80-90% of that is highway (to get to my territory and back) and free flowing country roads.
And even when around town it is not stop and go or congested.
And no idling.
So I’m not putting extra stress on the emissions system.
Oil changes and fuel filter at 7,500 miles at the dealership, has a 10k interval.
I was getting 10 mpg with the diesel and the comparable gas trucks (most use a GM 6.0) get 7mpg, both figures for loaded box truck.
So I was saving $1k-$1500 a year on fuel with the diesel depending on prices per gallon difference.
No issues with the drivetrain (125k mile warranty anyway), but the issues with emissions started about the time the 50k mile emissions warranty end.
Wonder why it was only a 50k mile warranty, lol.
Last year had a PCV filter fail prematurely (which causes a need for extra code resets and programming - something else to charge a stupid amount for) and then the DEF tank needed replaced.
These emission errors generally cause a limp mode.
The dealership is always backlogged at least a week so have to get a rental truck when the truck isn’t drivable.
Spent $3k on emissions repairs and rentals last year.
Earlier this year a NOX sensor failed, $1000 repair, $200 tow and $600 rental.
Then recently had an EGR leak, $2500 repair estimate.
That was the last straw. Didn’t have them fix it as it was still driveable (no permanent limp mode).
So $7,300 of additional expenses related to the emissions system in less than two years.
More than all of my fuel savings over my 4 years of ownership.
And oil/fuel filter changes are $300 on the truck vs less than $100 for the gas, and have to buy DEF.
And these issues were from 50k to 85k miles. What’s it gonna do in the next 100-200k miles, scary.
For that amount of money you could probably have a brand new gas engine (GM 6.0) installed on a gas truck.
Effectively doubling the life of a gas truck for the cost of 2 years of emissions repairs.
Traded it in for a new gas cab over engine truck.
GM 6.0 engine.
Allison 1000 transmission (5 year unlimited mile warranty).
A lot more power than the 3.0 turbo diesel also.
I bought the diesel hoping to save money, but didn’t work out in my case.
I know for extremely heavy loads, especially over a long distance, diesel may be necessary.
And for lots of yearly of miles (OTR) you still can make up extra repair/maintenance costs with fuel savings and come out ahead.
And the diesel engine should last longer than gas.
Or if it is not a rig to make you money, and more of just a luxury item where money isn’t a primary concern, then emission issues probably aren’t a concern.
But if someone’s situation is borderline between the two on the financial savings, I’d say gas is the way to go, until they can get these emissions systems more reliable.
Cause diesel emissions is probably going to cost you more money, time and frustration than it’s worth for a lot of situations.
Your leaving out the fact that the older truck ran an additional 62 hours over the newer truck.If you average out the fuel cost per hour the older truck is just under $4 per hour more. The fact that it ran similar miles but took longer to do it make me think it was pulling rougher terrain.
I saw that as well with the truck hours lol
With OO's some may not choose to grind numbers. There is give and take. Running paper, maintenance, the look and performance, can all be "worth" the difference to some....others not. Most OO's should love their truck, the last thing I want is the truck eating its own excrement, like the emissions versions do, but I understand these days most don't bond with their truck, and with the new ones I see why.
You might be Right 🤔🤔...But the bottom line is: Older Trk's,the up keep is less $$$.Because they shipper on up keep,parts cost less,man hours is less and don't have to give the shop 1-2 hrs before they know what is the problem...And can say it LOUD BECAUSE IT HAS HAPPEN TO ME!!
AND *** Y E S *** I would buy a OLDER TRUCK OVER A NEW ONE. I REST MY CASE!!!
8MPG is total salesman type BS. I work in a mixed fleet of old and new trucks and none of our new Cascadia's or new KW's are getting 8mpg in the real world! We log all the fuel going into the trucks and the difference between the trucks is negligible.
While I have drivers show me on the screen their new Cascadia' display screen says 7,8,or 9 mpg, actual fuel use and fill ups says something different. The Cascade's are getting the same amount of fuel as every other truck in the fleet.
As part of my job is analyzing expenses such as fuel data, I can look at the spreadsheet and just about guess correctly which customer the driver was dispatched to, even if in the same city, but I don't have a clue what truck they were using. Old or new, they all get about the same mpg caring the same load.
Ohh is it now I can easily get 8.5-8.7 doing no more then driving 60, keeping the door closed, and being smart in the hills. 2016 dd13/dt12 700k. 53+k in the tank
Valid points sir. I will say that a big reason for a long hood for me is ease of working on it. I open my hood and the whole engine is right there vs being tucked up under the firewall. Since I do all my own work, this saves me time and money having more room to work. Another thing is, an O/O making good money normally doesn’t worry about fuel consumption as much as the owner of company trucks. We tend to idle and drive a bit faster because it’s just not as important to us. Yes, we probably should try harder, but we don’t have boss man breathing down our neck to lower idle time or slow down, we do what we want. If it’s hot, I’m running the truck for AC, no one is gunna tell me otherwise. Now, maybe this O/O you compared to IS one of those guys that tries very hard to make as much money as possible, but I think he’s probably more lenient than one of your company drivers, and that does add up quickly. Next reason is… I’ll pay some extra cash to drive a cool looking truck vs an aero dynamic plain Jane curb sniffer. A lot of us become owner ops to stand out, not blend in. We’re proud of what we do and we buy a truck that shows that wether it costs more money to run or not. I don’t try to just throw cash out the window, but I am willing to give some away to be loud and proud, yaknow?
Well said
The idle time on that older truck was astonishing. Then I got to thinking. What if theres no APU on that truck? Or what if its broken?
I would like to see a maintenance cost for one year. Comparing a new truck to a pre emissions truck. Let’s factor that cost and down time in.
There is no way to accurately compare a new vehicle to one 20 years old. Drivers, maintenance . The mechanic working on it.
He will never show that. The new trucks will bankrupt you fast! Enter at your own risk...
@@Cp3659 I don't see how can a new truck bankrupt you.
@@divisiondrive7599 I’ll give you an example this happened to a guy that I worked with. He bought a brand new Volvo he was teaming with his wife and the engine blew up at 300 and something thousand miles. They said it was covered under warranty but didn’t fully honor it because of some part that didn’t break. Not sure if have to ask him. They agreed to pay half. The total after them paying for half of the repair was going to be around 40k. He didn’t have it and had to file bankruptcy. Here’s is another example let’s say the truck has to go to the shop for a repair and it takes a month with now it about right due to the supply chain issues. You still have to make the payment on it. A couple times of that and you are in trouble. Buy a truck with cash and fix it as you go. If it doesn’t last long work for a company stack some cash and try it again. Learn to do your own repairs it will save you a ton of money.
@@Cp3659 I understand what you're saying but the issue with the warranty sounds fishy. For one usually when the engine blows the only thing the warranty usually doesn't cover all the parts that specified in the warranty. Also what type of warranty did they get there are several different types of warranties and the things that they cover and don't cover. Also I think if you buy a new or used truck me personally I don't think you should have less than 60k in the bank after you purchase the truck. ( yes this is what I do) because you are running a business and we know that these vehicles are expensive if it's new or old. The issue with being in the shop for a month doesn't happen. I know this shortage is a special occasion and can happen but it's not the norm. Again that's why I say you shouldn't have no less than 60k in the bank because you got that safety-net. I had a friend who bought a 2001 Peterbilt he paid around 55,000 60,000 for it. The engine blew in less than six months and because he didn't have the money saved he was in a pickle. So he had to work for a company. I also was a guy that I've met at a truck-stop just having small talk with in pretty much the same scenario happened to him. Now on the Brightside they didn't have to worry about the truck payment. But I definitely understand why a lot of guys use older trucks. But we have to remember that we're running businesses we shouldn't buy a truck after we buy the truck we have 10 or $15,000 leftover.