Amskil Yeah. But we didn't saw the Urborg. So it looked like he made mana with Windsweapt Heath which was not possible because of a missing Urborg. But there was an Urborg.Anyway. He wasn't allowed to cast Windsweapt Heath so it doesn't matter if there's an Urborg or not...
yeah sure patrick. let's go back to the tape. let's neglect the pro tour level play, and administer camera review. go back to the turn you scried with a temple, cast read the bones, didn't scry and just drew the cards, then played an untapped land off the top to cast elspeth. let's go back to the tape
Strength from the Fallen deck.... fun times. Sure, not exactly a deck that is at the same absolutely power level as some others... but it's fun and great to see that there are options like this out there that are actually decent. Not every deck has to contain Ascendancy, Rhino or Tasigur. This is what is so awesome about the game. The variety.
Chapin needs a break. He was making misplays from left to right. Right when he draw 2 cards from read and bones instead of scrying first I knew he's not thinking straight.
Yeah, he needs to go look into a mirror and remind himself that this is not his first rodeo. I think his lost in the finals last world championship is effecting him.
Thleepricon I'd like to think that too, because I've always liked Chapin, but "misplays" to get Elsepth on the board are a little convenient. Not only did he play the extra land, he didn't play it correctly. That's just really odd for someone at this level, even under pressure.
57:41 Chapin clearly just looked at the top four cards, put the Tasigur down on top of his hand, and then Michele only brought up the point that the card was not revealed properly when Chapin picked up his whole hand including the Tasigur. The ruling was correct.
On the following day (day 2), on Round 13, the Itallian (Edit: Marco Cammelluzi if I'm not mistaken) had Courser of Cruphix on the battlefield and a Siege Rino on the top of his library, he cast Read the Bones, saw a Utter End underneath the Rino and drew both cards WITHOUT REVEALING the Utter End... but since no one noticed it, he didn't get a game loss. Shouldn't the judges have done something about that??
Tyler Durden Different situation that can be fixed a lot easier. There are no restrictions on what Read The Bones can draw, so he did not add extra cards to his hand. If he had been caight, all he would have to do is reveal his hand so his opponent has the information that he should have had. Ajani however has the restriction on what he can add to the hand and thus you have to verify you are picking a legal target (by revealing it). Revealing your hand afterwards does not solve this problem as any card in your hand could be the one added by Ajani.
Robby Stark Games That is incorrect. Drawing cards never happens 'at the same time'. You don't draw a pile of two cards. Drawing cards always happens one at a time and it should be revealed.
+Tyler Durden Well, considering he argued that he didn't see the two cards Chapin drew, he probably didn't understand the way that drawing cards with an active Courser worked.
I can feel Chapins frustration. This action was just so unnecessary. He has all the time in the world being in the extra turns and most likely would just have won that game pretty easy. If I got this right, the ruling was based on him "drawing an extra card", so basically cheating. But this wasn't the case at all. He was just too frantic with Ajanis ability, wanting to end the game quickly since they were already in the extra turns. Very messed up situation, but with an intelligent view on this a warning would have been sufficient, no matter how the official rules consider this incident.
Michael Lemke "no matter how the official rules consider this incident" Your statement pretty much means "fuck the rules" They are made that way so they can be consistent, no matter if there's a GP on China or if is a PT in Europe. They have to be the same for every Magic player...
Santiago Calderón Garcia Amen! And maybe this will force Chapin to play more controlled in the future, and not e.g. be cheating out lands in his stress, as he does at 49:46.
Seems really easy to say, "I didn't know what cards are in your hand," sitting across from one of the best players in the world who's about to ultimate an Ugin. Chapin had turned the corner. Good opponent was looking for his one outer, and Chapin accidentally gave it to him. Ruling was, while accurate, unfair. Evan Erwin puts it very nicely in the video he put up today on the Magic Show channel.
First off, I have played MTG since alpha continuously. I did not not read any comments until the end controversy. I agree 100% with the judge. More importantly Patricks turn around the 49:50 second point. He plays two land in the turn. He draws instead of sryes on read the bones, THEN HE TAPS WINDSWEATH HEATH FOR MANA TO CAST ELSBETH. Three things in one turn is to me, to many.
Drawing instead of scrying with read the bones does nothing but hurt Patrick because he has less card selection and I wouldnt consider that cheating. Also, there was an urborg on the table when he played the Elspeth, so he definitely didn't cheat there.
Also, Chapin lied to the judge about Michele knowing the contents of his hand based on Courser. When it switches to the match, he is holding multiple reads and there is no thoughtsieze in Micheles graveyard.
49:58 Patrick plays him first land of the turn, a Temple of Silence. 50:20 Patrick cast Read the Bones. (He draws 2 cards instead of Scry 2 - Draw 2, he make a mistake but justified him self saying "im drawing both", saying this because he know he is "drawing extra cards" and can lose the game, but he said that even without look at the cards... Just for avoiding the penalty, but this is not the point). - > 50:41 Patrick plays a second land on the same turn... a Windsweap Heath... < - He was ultra shaking and nervous about that play, that was an intentionated cheating behavior... If he doesn't play the 2nd land he would lose the game the turn after... He deserve GL for other reasons but well... Edit.- I know that some players makes some mistakes, the nerves makes a lot of stuff while you're playing... But... Triple penalty in less than 2 mins... 2 Game Lose actions and 1 possible DQ... 1.- Or he is cheating all the way long or... 2.- He is missplaying a lot and he needs a break.
I3ohe "(He draws 2 cards instead of Scry 2 - Draw 2, he make a mistake but justified him self saying "im drawing both"" That's perfectly legal. No point putting them back if they're the cards you want.
cardnals100 Yeah, i know, in fact... But in this clearlly case he start shaking at that exact moment... I think it was for having nerves instead of the condition... But well... I hope that Patrick don't do any of this on propuse because is one of my favorite players...
that second land for the Elspeth.. was definitely suspicious... he played and tapped that land really quickly while his opponent was distracted removing his tokens... Patrick knows what he was doing.. KARMA!
Idk man, seriously, the purpose of the rules is to prevent the players from cheating. And this is a recorded match! Why the spectators knew what was in his hand, he is willing to reveal his whole hand to the opponent. As long as a recording can guarantee me that my opponent wasn't cheating and just misplayed something, I don't want him to get a gameloss unless I'm a total jerk. In this situation, a warning plus maybe shuffling the card he got that way would be fair. Maybe just a warning.
Lemur the Playmaker joshua snyder Yes but that's setting a pretty dangerous precedent. They are playing at the top level here, and not every match has a camera on them at all times. What if this situation had happened simultaneously on another table without a camera? They're all playing in the same tournament, you can't let one off with a warning and give the other a game loss. It was a sloppy mistake from a pro, and while I have sympathy for him, the rules dictate it's a game loss so he has to suck it up and move on.
everyonedoesit2 What you are saying is completely correct, but I think we need to go deeper. Based on the purpose of the rules, I believe there should be a general rule saying that the rules only apply to situations when the players have a dispute. From there on, it is all about are you a douche or not...
everyonedoesit2 in that case, maybe every match should be recorded. I mean look at football matches - not every match has cameras, but when they do, the referee can actually use the recording.
Benjamin Saunders Only four tables in this even have cameras on them, otherwise they have people relaying information on who won games 1 or things like that to my knowledge
yeah, the end was quiet painful to watch. chapin not scrying from read the bones, him "cheating" by playing 2 lands in the same turn (if it was on purpose) and then not revealing from the ajani...i also think he needs some sleep. but however, i found the discussion about the ruling quiet interesting and playing 2 lands on the same turn seems to be quiet a commen mistake on pro-Level (surprisingly it's not the first time i've seen this, since it never happens to me when i play Magic)
They should definitely be able to refer to a tape of recorded games to fix a mistake or support a ruling decision. Just like in Football games with the INSTANT REPLAY. keyword: instant. Feeling rough for how Chapin got jipped here.
Vader Skywalker Can't show any different treatment to players in the feature match. You wouldn't ask a bystander to ok a table ruling, why use a camera because they're in the feature match? They players don't get any special treatment - he in the terms of the game - cheated. If someone on the floor made the same mistake they can't ask the 'camera to ok it'
***** I am sorry to tell you that he didn't cheat. According to the IPG: "The offense must meet the following criteria for it to be considered Cheating:• The player must be attempting to gain advantage from his or her action. • The player must be aware that he or she is doing something illegal. " He didn't, otherwise he should have received a DQ.
This was handled completely unprofessionally by the coverage team. You need to step away from the action and talk about something else rather than commentating on a part of magic which should not be shown on camera. The fact that they started talking about cheating and wiggling his way out of it was completely inappropriate. Overall poor job on every side of the coverage.
Haon Law Why shouldn't be shown on camera? rulings are an essential part of the game. Do broadcast channels go to commercials when offiacial make a ruling on the SuperBowl?
Rodrigo Guerrero No but during the superbowl the refs talk it out and give a decision. In this context we watched the entire deliberation play out on camera with all of the emotions and frustration shown on each side of the table. The outcome of the event was obviously crucial to the rest of the game, however having the commentators talk about how Chapin was around when cheating was rampant was inappropriate. The main point is that we came to watch magic the gathering not to watch an emotional and disappointing judge ruling. To go back to your metaphor do you watch the football game for the time when the referees are talking about a penalty or do you watch football expecting to see football.
Rodrigo Guerrero An arguement a lot of people are making is that this would comlpetely turn off new players to playing magic as it makes the whole thing seem unappealing and it makes it look like this is what it would be like if they started playing. Also did you enjoy watching that? like that was so hard for me to watch and I completely agree the Coverage team handled it about as poorly as they could. leaving it on is one thing but to commentate on how he is trying to "Wiggle his way out" was completely disrespectful and incredibly unprofessional. No one needed to see that unfold.
49:45 for the time stamp for the extra land play from Chapin though. That's makes me lose a bit of faith from him, when compared to my previous statement.
I don't see the issue. Chapin looked at the top 4 cards of his library, took out a creature and put it on top of his hand. He then picked up his hand and was informed and put it back down in the same order. No position had changed in his hand, so the creature was the obvious draw.
I know Chapin played two land but too everyone who said he just drew two cards and not scrying with read the bones is wrong because he looked at them as they were put down on the table.
who was the guy playing hornet queens and hornet nests? can someone give me his name please? i have hornets, and the nests, and a few other cards, can you just link his name pleasE?
That ruling against chapin was bull. He hadn't changed the order of the cards, so he could have simply just revealed the card he selected from Ajani and the game state would have been repaired without any game actions being taken. Also, everyone behind him saw the 4 cards revealed by Ajani and which one Chapin took, so they could have been consulted.
This is tough. It's very apparent which card was the one taken from Ajani. At the same time Patrick did not do what the card says. I agree with everyone that I do not like that Marshall and Randy are discussing this.
Yes Chapin is playing 2 lands in the same turn No that is NOT illegal carddraw and Yes Michele is lying about not knowing the 2 other cards next time let the judges doublecheck the rulebooks...
Ic3dsoul The rulebooks says that the only way to know the specific position of the card is 1.- If the card is the only card on the hand or 2.- If the card is on a specific position on the library. So, in fact, this was not the case...
So remember that if you happen to set a card down that you intend to reveal that also happens to be touching a card in your hand then it's considered in your hand.
He should of got the loss on the turn he played Elspeth the started the turn with a temple of silence then played a read the bones then he played a windswept heath.. His second land of the turn so he could cast his Elspeth..
Rob Discussions with judges have been on camera many times before. It's part of the game, even though it's not very interesting to most. And to be fair, responsibility might go to many people, since nobody reacted the way you wished. Chapin is also responsible for not giving this game away sooner. In a way, that moment is interesting, it shows up how we can discuss decisions, how tenseful competitions can be, and so on... The fact one feels bad at watching it doesn't make it objectively unvaluable to watch.
Head Minerve i'm not saying this from an entertainment value perspective, while there are some things that may enlighten new players to the competitive scene, I (as a judge) have to respect the privacy of other players, i'm fairly confident in saying that Chapin will say he wouldn't want this to be aired. Much like whenever a player is disqualified, it's kept pretty hush hush except with the parties involved, largely because as judges, we need to respect our players. This is, for lack of a better term, eavesdropping. I can understand that Patrick will feel a little bit of ridicule for his play that wasn't particularly tight, but I don't think it's appropriate to air the conversation with Riccardo. As far as the game itself, yes, it should have been done 10-15 minutes before he was given a game loss. I think the lesson we can take from all this is that, regardless of who you are or how good you think you are, you're still human and at the professional level, your play needs to be tight and mistake free, Patrick's play definitely didn't demonstrate that.
I agree. Unique moments like that did and will happen again and that's the way coverage and Magic will get better and more professional. It also gives memorable moments in Magic History, no matter how awkward they are sometimes. No one needs to be fired though. We all wish commentators knew the format they're commentating, judges never miss a featured illegal action, etc... but like in almost any competition, we have to deal with what is offered to us, which is here free coverage for hours, HQ, yet never perfect.
The Chapin fiasco was handled so unprofessionally by the broadcast team, holy cow. NONE of that should have seen the air. As soon as he appealed and got the head judge involved, they should've cut away. Mentioning the fact that Chapin played back when judges could be easily influenced and suggesting he could be trying to wiggle his way out of the situation is just a smack in Pat's face. How cowardly. They wouldn't say that to his face. Nor does it help that the smug italian guy was being a major douche. They WERE right about not being able to check the tape. The thousands of people out on the main floor don't have cameras to check, so they can't treat the feature match area any differently. But still. People that are sticklers to the rules like that are just too competitive. You were paying attention, Michele. You saw which card was which. He showed you his whole hand. If you'd been asking him his hand size every now and then like a good player should, you'd know he wasn't trying to cheat you. Good job finding a way to win the match, because everyone knows you weren't coming out of that one with a W without pulling something out of your ass.
Totally agree with everything you said, but the ProTour IS a highly competitive field so the rules have to be totally cut and dry. Definitely sucks and I see no malicious intent in Chapin, hopefully he was able to collect himself after. Also, what's with that wiggling out crap? He was telling his side, not trying to trick the judge.
I cant help but feel the commentators were too harsh with the joking towards Patrick Chapin. It was an honest mistake, judge call, and decision for the game, the commentators just took it a bit far and came out looking like assholes to me.
The rules are pretty straight forward. Draw then reveal then put in hand. If you were not at a feature table it would be cut and dry game loss. He did pick up the cards all together as one hand after he placed the drawn card with his hand cards. At that point its evident what has happened. If you watch you could almost say if he hadn't picked up the full hand he might have been able to reveal that card and his opponent might have been O.K. with that but its clear its in his hand with all his cards at that point. Not cheating but a mistake ....play a game with a pro at that level and most would say playing correctly is just as important as its part of the skill of the game and seperates pros from the rest.
Chapin looks completely fucked up. Did he not sleep during the entire pro tour? Not only does he play an additional land at 50:40, he also lost the game to a misplay... I don't think there was any chance of him trying to cheat, it just seems to me a lot has been taken out of him up til this point in rounds...
This was a painful situation for Patrick Chapin, a player I greatly respect. But I feel both Ancona and the judges acted the best they could. Ancona never did anything Chapin wouldn't do in his place.
Okay just saying I read the card from Ajani and it's a May ability so the ruling was wrong. Because the card completely states from the plus one ability that Chapin had used it states draw four cards and you may reveal a creature or aura from those draws. So the ruling was inaccurate and therefore Chapin would have won the game after using the ability from Ugin to clear the board and then playing Tasikir to use the ability to get siege rhino and then that would have been game
Matthew Hale The "may" means, that if you want to take one of the cards in your hand you can do so by revealing and drawing it. If you don't want to draw one of the cards, reveal nothing. So if you follow the order of the instructions on the cards it would go like this: 1. Look at the Top 4 2. Reveal one OR no card 3. Put that one into your hand OR don't put any cards in your hand 4. Put the remaining cards (3 OR 4) on bottom. Chapin didn't reveal at step 2 and didn't take advantage of the "may". Therefore he must put all the cards on bottom of his library. If he doesn't he is drawing an extra card.
I know I'm late to the party, but the card says you may reveal to put it into your hand. If you choose not to reveal the card, you don't get to put it into your hand. Chapin didn't reveal the card, yet still put it in his hand, hence the game loss. On an earlier turn, he also played two lands in a turn in order to cast an Elspeth, which turned the tides of the game in his favor. His game loss was deserved.
giving him a game loss is dumb - if you watch the replay it is evidence that the card he got off ajani was in fact Tasigur - if he was trying to cheat it would be a different story but he clearly just misplayed accidentally, but even the Video shows proof that it was Tasigur and they already knew his Hand and so did the opponent, it was Revealed from Courser the entire Game both Read the bones, Ugin and Abzan charm - thats too bad he got a game Loss because he would have most likely Won and his opponent knew that, thats why he was happy about his misplay.
At 49:55 Chapin cheats a land resulting in an early elspeth. personally i think he caught himself because of how shaky/sweaty he got. also Ancona is just trying to win a game he should have lost with the help of a judge. In the end neither of these players should be people that represent magic by winning a contest like this. Also for argument, sake i did come here to see the Strength of the fallen deck and stayed to watch, imo, two unprofessional players play a sloppy game of magic.
Shame to see Chapin so flustered, even before the "violation" at 57mins, his hands were shakey and he was clearly nervous. Understandable of course, being so close to the finish line
Poor guy, lost his nerves at the end and started making mistakes. Time crunch and coming back from the losing side, no wonder his hands were shaking like crazy. The two lands on the same turn around the fifty minute mark WAS a clear mistake because it allowed Patrick to play Elspeth that turn.
It's very inappropriate of them to have put this ruling on camera. It just doesn't show an appropriate level of respect to the players or judges involved.
podoboq As a Judge, I found it really nice to watch. Watching Kevin being appealed, and then Kevin and Ricardo talking about the table situation was awesome :)
This made me sad. I was really rooting for Chapin and with victory in sight he lost because he goofed due to stress. Poor guy bet he's kicking himself over that
I always have been a player that follows the rules very strictly and unfortunately for Chapin he made a mistake and by rules it’s a game loss I can understand that... BUT… there’s an example that I can point out to help improve this scenarios in the future. In the sport of Tennis there is the "challenge" option for players that are in special courts (feature courts) in which they can ask for a video proof to overrule a judge call, the thing is that in a mayor Tennis tournament this challenge system is only available in 4 or so courts, but there's more player that are playing without this advantage in the same tournament, sometimes, at the same time. So, all this Magic players playing in the feature matches area MUST have the option available to use other technologies, like video review. If a sport that makes millions of dollars like Tennis can offer this option for players in features matches courts I don’t see why Magic can’t do it the same way.
I know that I would really hate to be in Patrick's shoes in those final five turns. Nerves getting the better of you. It was very clear through multiple displays of mental lapses. Not scrying with his read the bones. Playing two lands in a turn. Botching the ajani reveal. It especially sucks to have the whole scenario under the eyes of everyone watching. Hell, I get nervous in some games just at the kitchen table. As far as the ruling, it was exactly what it should have been; strict, consistent, and to the book. To the buzz about Randy stepping over the line with some comments, I ask this. How? He should be able to voice his opinion as a pt champ, former member of R&D, and hall of famer. Pat was clearly in a tunnel vision like state on his line of play and not really being dutiful. It was more like he was go fishing than playing a match with a real person so for him to reach for as much as he was, I was thinking exactly the same thing Randy was. The judges have decided. You lost, it sucks, so go play round seven at 5-1.
I'll admit i only watched the parts of the vid that are under controversy. First off he definitely played two lands that turn, no defense for that. Especially since it allowed him to play elspeth. And then with the ajani, right call was made. He didn't reveal and put it with the rest of his hand. He put it in his hand without revealing which is part of the cards ability and against the rules. I don't believe cheating was his intention in either, The case might be made for the playing two land (doubtful though seems it was just an error due to rushing), but with ajani we see he did everything correct except show the card. the 3 shipped were ineligible targets leaving only the card he put in his hand as a correct target. Sucks to lose like that but i'm not going to say man he got robbed he was going to win- when he only got to that boardstate by playing two lands intentionally or not.
Randy Buehlers comments toward the end seemed really unnecessary, honestly. I also agree that this ruling is unfair. Judges neglecting to use any readily available evidence for the sake of "fairness" yet the feature match area is already given more special treatment than the rest of the tournament. This also could have been cut and coverage could have went to something else instead of watching Chapin fight this clearly uphill battle. GG Wizards.
Honestly, its really shitty that Patrick lost this for something as simple as not revealing to Ajani. His opponent could've, if he was sportsmanlike, just accepted that Chapin reveal his full hand, and not try to lame out a win on a technicality. I can understand his position to not just be cool with it, it is the Pro Tour, but I mean look at that game state. There is no feasible way Michele could win, it was all on tape, what Patrick did was clearly not in attempt to cheat, it was a simple slip up due to the pace of play. Sometimes rules are stupid.
chappin putting the tasigar in his hand ( on the top of his hand)was even seen on camera so why the hell would he lose when the fucking judges could just look back on the camera and see that he put the tasigar on the top of his hand like literally all they had to do was look back on the tape like seriously? magic needs new judges
That was awkward to watch at the end there, Patrick was trying everything he could think of and just looked bad , should not of had all of that exchange on camera.
There was no rush. The players were at time, and they had some breathing room. There was no reason for him to play quickly like he did, and it cost him. Same for the 2 lands he played on the Elspeth turn. Playing too fast only makes you sloppy, and it should never need to happen, ESPECIALLY after time has been called.
I wish wizard would create more deck tools at the common level like saytr wayfinder instead of crazy expensive rares. Always feels like commons are just filler
I understand the rules, but it sucks that if we put the match on camera, and you can clearly see the taisigur, we should be able to use that bc it is insanely obvious that Chaplin is not trying to cheat.
What the fuck is wrong with them? Chapin placed the card face down on his hand, which is an obvious mistake, but then he clearly picks up the same card and shows it. His opponent saw it(and will forever be known as a douche to me), the judges that stood by him must've seen it, the only one that didn't see it was the headjudge that was called to the table and made the final ruling, which is ridiculous. And don't come with this "the rules says...". I've seen tons of other mistakes in these rounds that, if they were to be considered cheating, would be a game loss as well but they were all cleared up between just the players with no judge stopping the game. I mean, what's the reason for judges watching if he's just gonna ignore what he's seeing and strictly follow the rules book? Oh well, hope it was worth it for Michele Ancona cuz he most likely has lost all respect from the majority of the magic community.
Technically, chapin cheated before hand. He tapped a fetch land for mana, without searching for a land. And I don't see the legendary land that makes your lands swamps anywhere. Just my input
Pretty much reaffirming why I'll never play Magic seriously ever again. Too much rules lawyering. You could see Ancona pounce on the infraction and hope it would get escalated to a game loss.
Ok, what happened to Chapin was wrong. Seriously, everyone saw that the godforsaken Tasigur did not move, and he showed everyone his whole hand, guys, Seriously, the match should have just continued.
49:46 Patrick Chapin plays two lands same turn?
Alexander Storm I wondered that too at first but the opponent has Urborg in play.
JaakkoAA Yeah. I saw it now. Thought that was his grave. I hate when people arrange their table like this.
JaakkoAA Urborg?
He PLAY Scry-land - and then he play FETCH-land. 2 land-drops in one turn! What Urborg?
Amskil Yeah. But we didn't saw the Urborg. So it looked like he made mana with Windsweapt Heath which was not possible because of a missing Urborg. But there was an Urborg.Anyway. He wasn't allowed to cast Windsweapt Heath so it doesn't matter if there's an Urborg or not...
yeah sure patrick. let's go back to the tape. let's neglect the pro tour level play, and administer camera review. go back to the turn you scried with a temple, cast read the bones, didn't scry and just drew the cards, then played an untapped land off the top to cast elspeth.
let's go back to the tape
Strength from the Fallen deck.... fun times. Sure, not exactly a deck that is at the same absolutely power level as some others... but it's fun and great to see that there are options like this out there that are actually decent. Not every deck has to contain Ascendancy, Rhino or Tasigur. This is what is so awesome about the game. The variety.
Couldn't have shown one of those inside R&D videos or something instead of humiliating Patrick for 15 min? Lol, come on coverage team...
Chapin needs a break. He was making misplays from left to right. Right when he draw 2 cards from read and bones instead of scrying first I knew he's not thinking straight.
Jace Belerin Played two lands that same turn. Couldn't believe how much he stumbled.
Yeah, he needs to go look into a mirror and remind himself that this is not his first rodeo. I think his lost in the finals last world championship is effecting him.
Jace Belerin I mean misplays are so easy to make, lack of sleep or nerves, you can clearly see that it wasn't intentional.
Thleepricon I'd like to think that too, because I've always liked Chapin, but "misplays" to get Elsepth on the board are a little convenient. Not only did he play the extra land, he didn't play it correctly. That's just really odd for someone at this level, even under pressure.
Eric Huckaby How did he play it incorrectly? It was definitely unintentional
57:41 Chapin clearly just looked at the top four cards, put the Tasigur down on top of his hand, and then Michele only brought up the point that the card was not revealed properly when Chapin picked up his whole hand including the Tasigur. The ruling was correct.
On the following day (day 2), on Round 13, the Itallian (Edit: Marco Cammelluzi if I'm not mistaken) had Courser of Cruphix on the battlefield and a Siege Rino on the top of his library, he cast Read the Bones, saw a Utter End underneath the Rino and drew both cards WITHOUT REVEALING the Utter End... but since no one noticed it, he didn't get a game loss. Shouldn't the judges have done something about that??
Tyler Durden Different situation that can be fixed a lot easier. There are no restrictions on what Read The Bones can draw, so he did not add extra cards to his hand. If he had been caight, all he would have to do is reveal his hand so his opponent has the information that he should have had. Ajani however has the restriction on what he can add to the hand and thus you have to verify you are picking a legal target (by revealing it). Revealing your hand afterwards does not solve this problem as any card in your hand could be the one added by Ajani.
Tyler Durden You're drawing 2 cards at the same time. So no. Welcome to MTG.
Robby Stark Games That is incorrect. Drawing cards never happens 'at the same time'. You don't draw a pile of two cards. Drawing cards always happens one at a time and it should be revealed.
+Tyler Durden Well, considering he argued that he didn't see the two cards Chapin drew, he probably didn't understand the way that drawing cards with an active Courser worked.
49:57, he plays a land, and at 50:40 he plays another land.
Then taps windswept heat for mana
+Elvish Mystic That's because there's an Urborg in play
I liked the head judge´s approach. Understanding and letting them explain their story, but standing firmly on the rules.
I can feel Chapins frustration. This action was just so unnecessary. He has all the time in the world being in the extra turns and most likely would just have won that game pretty easy. If I got this right, the ruling was based on him "drawing an extra card", so basically cheating. But this wasn't the case at all. He was just too frantic with Ajanis ability, wanting to end the game quickly since they were already in the extra turns. Very messed up situation, but with an intelligent view on this a warning would have been sufficient, no matter how the official rules consider this incident.
Michael Lemke "no matter how the official rules consider this incident"
Your statement pretty much means "fuck the rules"
They are made that way so they can be consistent, no matter if there's a GP on China or if is a PT in Europe. They have to be the same for every Magic player...
Santiago Calderón Garcia Exactly, you can't go soft on cases like this, be it a Pro Tour or a minor championship.
Santiago Calderón Garcia Amen! And maybe this will force Chapin to play more controlled in the future, and not e.g. be cheating out lands in his stress, as he does at 49:46.
Seems really easy to say, "I didn't know what cards are in your hand," sitting across from one of the best players in the world who's about to ultimate an Ugin. Chapin had turned the corner. Good opponent was looking for his one outer, and Chapin accidentally gave it to him. Ruling was, while accurate, unfair. Evan Erwin puts it very nicely in the video he put up today on the Magic Show channel.
Thank you for showing all of this! Watching the judge decision helps ensure faith in the system. =)
First off, I have played MTG since alpha continuously. I did not not read any comments until the end controversy. I agree 100% with the judge. More importantly Patricks turn around the 49:50 second point. He plays two land in the turn. He draws instead of sryes on read the bones, THEN HE TAPS WINDSWEATH HEATH FOR MANA TO CAST ELSBETH. Three things in one turn is to me, to many.
Drawing instead of scrying with read the bones does nothing but hurt Patrick because he has less card selection and I wouldnt consider that cheating. Also, there was an urborg on the table when he played the Elspeth, so he definitely didn't cheat there.
Except for the fact, that land should not have been there in the first place:)
Mike Blake Yeah, except that. Which, is the only thing he did to cheat that game.
Also, Chapin lied to the judge about Michele knowing the contents of his hand based on Courser. When it switches to the match, he is holding multiple reads and there is no thoughtsieze in Micheles graveyard.
He played the Courser later.
Shame that happened. Chapin looks like he is on the ragged edge. Needs more sleep.
49:58 Patrick plays him first land of the turn, a Temple of Silence.
50:20 Patrick cast Read the Bones. (He draws 2 cards instead of Scry 2 - Draw 2, he make a mistake but justified him self saying "im drawing both", saying this because he know he is "drawing extra cards" and can lose the game, but he said that even without look at the cards... Just for avoiding the penalty, but this is not the point).
- > 50:41 Patrick plays a second land on the same turn... a Windsweap Heath... < -
He was ultra shaking and nervous about that play, that was an intentionated cheating behavior...
If he doesn't play the 2nd land he would lose the game the turn after... He deserve GL for other reasons but well...
Edit.- I know that some players makes some mistakes, the nerves makes a lot of stuff while you're playing... But... Triple penalty in less than 2 mins... 2 Game Lose actions and 1 possible DQ...
1.- Or he is cheating all the way long or...
2.- He is missplaying a lot and he needs a break.
I3ohe If I recall Chapin has condition that causes his hands to shake, I think it was mentioned in his video from 2008 or so where nassif beats him.
I3ohe I think it is assumed if you draw 2 and dont actually scry with read the bones that you are just assumed to have scryed both to the top.
I3ohe "(He draws 2 cards instead of Scry 2 - Draw 2, he make a mistake but justified him self saying "im drawing both""
That's perfectly legal. No point putting them back if they're the cards you want.
blayde hayes There's no point on calling a judge there... But if him opponent does... It's a warning.
cardnals100
Yeah, i know, in fact... But in this clearlly case he start shaking at that exact moment... I think it was for having nerves instead of the condition... But well... I hope that Patrick don't do any of this on propuse because is one of my favorite players...
49:46 Patrick Chapin plays two lands same turn
I love, JUST LOVE, how Chapin looks at his hand(1:09:17) while arguing with the judge as if he's still playing Magic.
that second land for the Elspeth.. was definitely suspicious... he played and tapped that land really quickly while his opponent was distracted removing his tokens... Patrick knows what he was doing.. KARMA!
I'm french and i dont really understand all the dislikes, can someone explain?
Proceedings of hearing and proof are inadequate. Rulings and recourses are fine.
And here we come to an interesting distinction of what a "hand" in Magic is actually considered.
Chapin played an extra land the turn he played Elspeth. Played Temple and then another in Windswept heath to cast Elspeth.
Idk man, seriously, the purpose of the rules is to prevent the players from cheating. And this is a recorded match! Why the spectators knew what was in his hand, he is willing to reveal his whole hand to the opponent. As long as a recording can guarantee me that my opponent wasn't cheating and just misplayed something, I don't want him to get a gameloss unless I'm a total jerk. In this situation, a warning plus maybe shuffling the card he got that way would be fair. Maybe just a warning.
Lemur the Playmaker joshua snyder Yes but that's setting a pretty dangerous precedent. They are playing at the top level here, and not every match has a camera on them at all times. What if this situation had happened simultaneously on another table without a camera? They're all playing in the same tournament, you can't let one off with a warning and give the other a game loss. It was a sloppy mistake from a pro, and while I have sympathy for him, the rules dictate it's a game loss so he has to suck it up and move on.
everyonedoesit2 What you are saying is completely correct, but I think we need to go deeper. Based on the purpose of the rules, I believe there should be a general rule saying that the rules only apply to situations when the players have a dispute. From there on, it is all about are you a douche or not...
everyonedoesit2 in that case, maybe every match should be recorded. I mean look at football matches - not every match has cameras, but when they do, the referee can actually use the recording.
everyonedoesit2 dont they all have over head cameras so the talking guys can comment well the feature match is being watched
Benjamin Saunders Only four tables in this even have cameras on them, otherwise they have people relaying information on who won games 1 or things like that to my knowledge
grr wish I could see every card played close up, does any channel do that?
yeah, the end was quiet painful to watch. chapin not scrying from read the bones, him "cheating" by playing 2 lands in the same turn (if it was on purpose) and then not revealing from the ajani...i also think he needs some sleep. but however, i found the discussion about the ruling quiet interesting and playing 2 lands on the same turn seems to be quiet a commen mistake on pro-Level (surprisingly it's not the first time i've seen this, since it never happens to me when i play Magic)
lets just get Richard Garfield on speed dial for these moments
They should definitely be able to refer to a tape of recorded games to fix a mistake or support a ruling decision. Just like in Football games with the INSTANT REPLAY. keyword: instant. Feeling rough for how Chapin got jipped here.
Analog ruling in a digital world.
Vader Skywalker Can't show any different treatment to players in the feature match. You wouldn't ask a bystander to ok a table ruling, why use a camera because they're in the feature match? They players don't get any special treatment - he in the terms of the game - cheated. If someone on the floor made the same mistake they can't ask the 'camera to ok it'
***** Actually you do that is why it is "THE FEATURE" and the cameras are there and NOT with a random player in the middle of the pack.
It literally says in section 2.13 of the tournament comprehensive rules that you cannot.
***** A camera is not a bystander, it's a camera.
***** I am sorry to tell you that he didn't cheat.
According to the IPG:
"The offense must meet the following criteria for it to be considered Cheating:•
The player must be attempting to gain advantage from his or her action.
•
The player must be aware that he or she is doing something illegal. "
He didn't, otherwise he should have received a DQ.
Can someone please explain it to me ? I dont really understand chapin and the Judge
Ach, I hate when little slip-ups like that get in the way of a good game. Fucking tragic.
So i heard that patrick kept bad mouthing the judge after the game and he was dq'd is this correct?
This was handled completely unprofessionally by the coverage team. You need to step away from the action and talk about something else rather than commentating on a part of magic which should not be shown on camera. The fact that they started talking about cheating and wiggling his way out of it was completely inappropriate. Overall poor job on every side of the coverage.
Haon Law Why shouldn't be shown on camera? rulings are an essential part of the game. Do broadcast channels go to commercials when offiacial make a ruling on the SuperBowl?
Rodrigo Guerrero No but during the superbowl the refs talk it out and give a decision. In this context we watched the entire deliberation play out on camera with all of the emotions and frustration shown on each side of the table. The outcome of the event was obviously crucial to the rest of the game, however having the commentators talk about how Chapin was around when cheating was rampant was inappropriate. The main point is that we came to watch magic the gathering not to watch an emotional and disappointing judge ruling. To go back to your metaphor do you watch the football game for the time when the referees are talking about a penalty or do you watch football expecting to see football.
Rodrigo Guerrero An arguement a lot of people are making is that this would comlpetely turn off new players to playing magic as it makes the whole thing seem unappealing and it makes it look like this is what it would be like if they started playing.
Also did you enjoy watching that? like that was so hard for me to watch and I completely agree the Coverage team handled it about as poorly as they could. leaving it on is one thing but to commentate on how he is trying to "Wiggle his way out" was completely disrespectful and incredibly unprofessional. No one needed to see that unfold.
49:45 for the time stamp for the extra land play from Chapin though. That's makes me lose a bit of faith from him, when compared to my previous statement.
I don't see the issue. Chapin looked at the top 4 cards of his library, took out a creature and put it on top of his hand. He then picked up his hand and was informed and put it back down in the same order. No position had changed in his hand, so the creature was the obvious draw.
Can't they review the part of the recording in these situations?
I'm glad that he got the game loss because they missed him playing two lands earlier in the game. They got it right in the end.
Randy: who else can he appeal to
Marshal: I don't know Richard Garfield
I'm dead
I know Chapin played two land but too everyone who said he just drew two cards and not scrying with read the bones is wrong because he looked at them as they were put down on the table.
who was the guy playing hornet queens and hornet nests? can someone give me his name please? i have hornets, and the nests, and a few other cards, can you just link his name pleasE?
That ruling against chapin was bull. He hadn't changed the order of the cards, so he could have simply just revealed the card he selected from Ajani and the game state would have been repaired without any game actions being taken. Also, everyone behind him saw the 4 cards revealed by Ajani and which one Chapin took, so they could have been consulted.
This is tough. It's very apparent which card was the one taken from Ajani. At the same time Patrick did not do what the card says. I agree with everyone that I do not like that Marshall and Randy are discussing this.
Seems like you really need to know your rhetoric if you want to argue rules in this game.
Yes Chapin is playing 2 lands in the same turn
No that is NOT illegal carddraw
and Yes Michele is lying about not knowing the 2 other cards
next time let the judges doublecheck the rulebooks...
Ic3dsoul The rulebooks says that the only way to know the specific position of the card is 1.- If the card is the only card on the hand or 2.- If the card is on a specific position on the library.
So, in fact, this was not the case...
Ic3dsoul Are you really saying that two Level 5 judges made a mistake on a really easy situation? ...
Santiago Calderón Garcia no he should have lost anyway and it was the right decision to give him a gameloss but it was the wrong ruling xD
Ic3dsoul Michele was not lying, Chapin played a read the bones. Without scrying by the way.
So remember that if you happen to set a card down that you intend to reveal that also happens to be touching a card in your hand then it's considered in your hand.
He should of got the loss on the turn he played Elspeth the started the turn with a temple of silence then played a read the bones then he played a windswept heath.. His second land of the turn so he could cast his Elspeth..
Ancona is pretty douchy :/
this... should not have been on camera at all, whoever is running coverage for this event should be instantly fired for being incompetent.
Rob Discussions with judges have been on camera many times before. It's part of the game, even though it's not very interesting to most. And to be fair, responsibility might go to many people, since nobody reacted the way you wished. Chapin is also responsible for not giving this game away sooner. In a way, that moment is interesting, it shows up how we can discuss decisions, how tenseful competitions can be, and so on... The fact one feels bad at watching it doesn't make it objectively unvaluable to watch.
Head Minerve i'm not saying this from an entertainment value perspective, while there are some things that may enlighten new players to the competitive scene, I (as a judge) have to respect the privacy of other players, i'm fairly confident in saying that Chapin will say he wouldn't want this to be aired. Much like whenever a player is disqualified, it's kept pretty hush hush except with the parties involved, largely because as judges, we need to respect our players. This is, for lack of a better term, eavesdropping.
I can understand that Patrick will feel a little bit of ridicule for his play that wasn't particularly tight, but I don't think it's appropriate to air the conversation with Riccardo.
As far as the game itself, yes, it should have been done 10-15 minutes before he was given a game loss. I think the lesson we can take from all this is that, regardless of who you are or how good you think you are, you're still human and at the professional level, your play needs to be tight and mistake free, Patrick's play definitely didn't demonstrate that.
I agree.
Unique moments like that did and will happen again and that's the way coverage and Magic will get better and more professional. It also gives memorable moments in Magic History, no matter how awkward they are sometimes.
No one needs to be fired though. We all wish commentators knew the format they're commentating, judges never miss a featured illegal action, etc... but like in almost any competition, we have to deal with what is offered to us, which is here free coverage for hours, HQ, yet never perfect.
The Chapin fiasco was handled so unprofessionally by the broadcast team, holy cow.
NONE of that should have seen the air. As soon as he appealed and got the head judge involved, they should've cut away. Mentioning the fact that Chapin played back when judges could be easily influenced and suggesting he could be trying to wiggle his way out of the situation is just a smack in Pat's face. How cowardly. They wouldn't say that to his face. Nor does it help that the smug italian guy was being a major douche. They WERE right about not being able to check the tape. The thousands of people out on the main floor don't have cameras to check, so they can't treat the feature match area any differently. But still. People that are sticklers to the rules like that are just too competitive. You were paying attention, Michele. You saw which card was which. He showed you his whole hand. If you'd been asking him his hand size every now and then like a good player should, you'd know he wasn't trying to cheat you. Good job finding a way to win the match, because everyone knows you weren't coming out of that one with a W without pulling something out of your ass.
Totally agree with everything you said, but the ProTour IS a highly competitive field so the rules have to be totally cut and dry. Definitely sucks and I see no malicious intent in Chapin, hopefully he was able to collect himself after. Also, what's with that wiggling out crap? He was telling his side, not trying to trick the judge.
I cant help but feel the commentators were too harsh with the joking towards Patrick Chapin. It was an honest mistake, judge call, and decision for the game, the commentators just took it a bit far and came out looking like assholes to me.
The head judge looks so happy to be there. He seems fair and impartial, at least.
Donnie Treece Ricardo Tessitori is a reaaaaaally nice guy :)
The rules are pretty straight forward. Draw then reveal then put in hand. If you were not at a feature table it would be cut and dry game loss. He did pick up the cards all together as one hand after he placed the drawn card with his hand cards. At that point its evident what has happened. If you watch you could almost say if he hadn't picked up the full hand he might have been able to reveal that card and his opponent might have been O.K. with that but its clear its in his hand with all his cards at that point. Not cheating but a mistake ....play a game with a pro at that level and most would say playing correctly is just as important as its part of the skill of the game and seperates pros from the rest.
So sad, i think he must concede, he knew it was a mistake
***** He knew it and seems like he actually knows a lot about the Infraction Procedure Guide... that's why he was asking for a downgrade first.
The read the bones no Scry/draw was legal. He saw the cards and chose to leave them and draw. He even states it to Michelle.
Chapin looks completely fucked up. Did he not sleep during the entire pro tour? Not only does he play an additional land at 50:40, he also lost the game to a misplay... I don't think there was any chance of him trying to cheat, it just seems to me a lot has been taken out of him up til this point in rounds...
moral of the story - place the card you want from ajani face up.
Where are the Charging Badgers?
This was a painful situation for Patrick Chapin, a player I greatly respect. But I feel both Ancona and the judges acted the best they could. Ancona never did anything Chapin wouldn't do in his place.
Okay just saying I read the card from Ajani and it's a May ability so the ruling was wrong. Because the card completely states from the plus one ability that Chapin had used it states draw four cards and you may reveal a creature or aura from those draws. So the ruling was inaccurate and therefore Chapin would have won the game after using the ability from Ugin to clear the board and then playing Tasikir to use the ability to get siege rhino and then that would have been game
Matthew Hale The "may" means, that if you want to take one of the cards in your hand you can do so by revealing and drawing it. If you don't want to draw one of the cards, reveal nothing. So if you follow the order of the instructions on the cards it would go like this:
1. Look at the Top 4
2. Reveal one OR no card
3. Put that one into your hand OR don't put any cards in your hand
4. Put the remaining cards (3 OR 4) on bottom.
Chapin didn't reveal at step 2 and didn't take advantage of the "may". Therefore he must put all the cards on bottom of his library. If he doesn't he is drawing an extra card.
I know I'm late to the party, but the card says you may reveal to put it into your hand. If you choose not to reveal the card, you don't get to put it into your hand. Chapin didn't reveal the card, yet still put it in his hand, hence the game loss. On an earlier turn, he also played two lands in a turn in order to cast an Elspeth, which turned the tides of the game in his favor. His game loss was deserved.
Omg WOTC add a "Instant-replay judge clause" if this is an issue of "oooh what card is it." "Oh I know let's look at the footage we stream!"
En el minuto 49:55 juega tierra y en el minuto 50:38 juega la segunda y eso no lo vieron los jueces
giving him a game loss is dumb - if you watch the replay it is evidence that the card he got off ajani was in fact Tasigur - if he was trying to cheat it would be a different story but he clearly just misplayed accidentally, but even the Video shows proof that it was Tasigur and they already knew his Hand and so did the opponent, it was Revealed from Courser the entire Game both Read the bones, Ugin and Abzan charm - thats too bad he got a game Loss because he would have most likely Won and his opponent knew that, thats why he was happy about his misplay.
i can see why he stopped playing pro magic, having to deal with judges like that
At 49:55 Chapin cheats a land resulting in an early elspeth.
personally i think he caught himself because of how shaky/sweaty he got.
also Ancona is just trying to win a game he should have lost with the help of a judge.
In the end neither of these players should be people that represent magic by winning a contest like this.
Also for argument, sake i did come here to see the Strength of the fallen deck and stayed to watch, imo, two unprofessional players play a sloppy game of magic.
Shame to see Chapin so flustered, even before the "violation" at 57mins, his hands were shakey and he was clearly nervous. Understandable of course, being so close to the finish line
Poor guy, lost his nerves at the end and started making mistakes. Time crunch and coming back from the losing side, no wonder his hands were shaking like crazy. The two lands on the same turn around the fifty minute mark WAS a clear mistake because it allowed Patrick to play Elspeth that turn.
Looked like he was a little intimidated by the last match. I wish the judge just let him reveal since the footage shows him revealing a tasigur.
Wizards may want to implement a "booth review" for something like this. lol
I have to agree with Chapin. Why couldn't he just reveal the card, you knew which card it was!?!?!?
Because the rules are clear and while it may suck, he made a game loss mistake. The rule was applied correctly. Chapin should have lost and did. -mM
It's very inappropriate of them to have put this ruling on camera. It just doesn't show an appropriate level of respect to the players or judges involved.
podoboq I disagree. I found the mechanics of the ruling very interesting.
Dan Nelson I also thought it was really interesting. It's just also kind of disrespectful.
Dan Nelson It doesn't matter how interesting you found it, that doesn't make it any more appropriate
podoboq I agree, no reason to do this to everyone involved. Everyone should check out Cedric Philips' tweets about this. twitter.com/CedricAPhillips
podoboq As a Judge, I found it really nice to watch. Watching Kevin being appealed, and then Kevin and Ricardo talking about the table situation was awesome :)
No one else realised that Patrick played the Elspeth he drew from te read the bones with mana from a windswept heath?
carlos moreno There is an Urborg out, giving each land
Ah, ok
Thanks mate :)
This made me sad. I was really rooting for Chapin and with victory in sight he lost because he goofed due to stress. Poor guy bet he's kicking himself over that
I always have been a player that follows the rules very strictly and unfortunately for Chapin he made a mistake and by rules it’s a game loss I can understand that... BUT… there’s an example that I can point out to help improve this scenarios in the future. In the sport of Tennis there is the "challenge" option for players that are in special courts (feature courts) in which they can ask for a video proof to overrule a judge call, the thing is that in a mayor Tennis tournament this challenge system is only available in 4 or so courts, but there's more player that are playing without this advantage in the same tournament, sometimes, at the same time. So, all this Magic players playing in the feature matches area MUST have the option available to use other technologies, like video review. If a sport that makes millions of dollars like Tennis can offer this option for players in features matches courts I don’t see why Magic can’t do it the same way.
I know that I would really hate to be in Patrick's shoes in those final five turns. Nerves getting the better of you. It was very clear through multiple displays of mental lapses. Not scrying with his read the bones. Playing two lands in a turn. Botching the ajani reveal. It especially sucks to have the whole scenario under the eyes of everyone watching. Hell, I get nervous in some games just at the kitchen table. As far as the ruling, it was exactly what it should have been; strict, consistent, and to the book. To the buzz about Randy stepping over the line with some comments, I ask this. How? He should be able to voice his opinion as a pt champ, former member of R&D, and hall of famer. Pat was clearly in a tunnel vision like state on his line of play and not really being dutiful. It was more like he was go fishing than playing a match with a real person so for him to reach for as much as he was, I was thinking exactly the same thing Randy was. The judges have decided. You lost, it sucks, so go play round seven at 5-1.
When in doubt people: RTFC
Big on Patrick to extend the hand after that nonsense.
I'll admit i only watched the parts of the vid that are under controversy. First off he definitely played two lands that turn, no defense for that. Especially since it allowed him to play elspeth.
And then with the ajani, right call was made. He didn't reveal and put it with the rest of his hand. He put it in his hand without revealing which is part of the cards ability and against the rules.
I don't believe cheating was his intention in either, The case might be made for the playing two land (doubtful though seems it was just an error due to rushing), but with ajani we see he did everything correct except show the card. the 3 shipped were ineligible targets leaving only the card he put in his hand as a correct target. Sucks to lose like that but i'm not going to say man he got robbed he was going to win- when he only got to that boardstate by playing two lands intentionally or not.
Randy Buehlers comments toward the end seemed really unnecessary, honestly. I also agree that this ruling is unfair. Judges neglecting to use any readily available evidence for the sake of "fairness" yet the feature match area is already given more special treatment than the rest of the tournament. This also could have been cut and coverage could have went to something else instead of watching Chapin fight this clearly uphill battle. GG Wizards.
greed devotion, what an awesome deck
There is a tomb in play so windswept taps for black :) but yeah he put 2 lands in play lol
Oh I now know why everybody and their cat is playing Strength of the Fallen.
Honestly, its really shitty that Patrick lost this for something as simple as not revealing to Ajani. His opponent could've, if he was sportsmanlike, just accepted that Chapin reveal his full hand, and not try to lame out a win on a technicality.
I can understand his position to not just be cool with it, it is the Pro Tour, but I mean look at that game state. There is no feasible way Michele could win, it was all on tape, what Patrick did was clearly not in attempt to cheat, it was a simple slip up due to the pace of play.
Sometimes rules are stupid.
Wow man. Really sucks with the game loss, but chapin took it to long. Would have loved to see him ultimate ugin and win the game!
chappin putting the tasigar in his hand ( on the top of his hand)was even seen on camera so why the hell would he lose when the fucking judges could just look back on the camera and see that he put the tasigar on the top of his hand like literally all they had to do was look back on the tape like seriously? magic needs new judges
Chapins opponent didn't earn this win
Actually Chapin would have lost a while ago if he didn't play two lands in one turn.
thats true
mtgonline
very true
mtgonline at what time
Hunter Derennaux He played 2 lands on this turn, at 49:46.
I feel so bad for poor Chapin, i love that guy :(
That was awkward to watch at the end there, Patrick was trying everything he could think of and just looked bad , should not of had all of that exchange on camera.
There was no rush. The players were at time, and they had some breathing room. There was no reason for him to play quickly like he did, and it cost him. Same for the 2 lands he played on the Elspeth turn. Playing too fast only makes you sloppy, and it should never need to happen, ESPECIALLY after time has been called.
Also, when he was at 2 life, he played and tapped the heath for mana
Urborg.
I wish wizard would create more deck tools at the common level like saytr wayfinder instead of crazy expensive rares. Always feels like commons are just filler
I understand the rules, but it sucks that if we put the match on camera, and you can clearly see the taisigur, we should be able to use that bc it is insanely obvious that Chaplin is not trying to cheat.
34 : 50 says bee sting lol don't you mean hornet sting?
What the fuck is wrong with them? Chapin placed the card face down on his hand, which is an obvious mistake, but then he clearly picks up the same card and shows it. His opponent saw it(and will forever be known as a douche to me), the judges that stood by him must've seen it, the only one that didn't see it was the headjudge that was called to the table and made the final ruling, which is ridiculous.
And don't come with this "the rules says...". I've seen tons of other mistakes in these rounds that, if they were to be considered cheating, would be a game loss as well but they were all cleared up between just the players with no judge stopping the game.
I mean, what's the reason for judges watching if he's just gonna ignore what he's seeing and strictly follow the rules book?
Oh well, hope it was worth it for Michele Ancona cuz he most likely has lost all respect from the majority of the magic community.
Technically, chapin cheated before hand. He tapped a fetch land for mana, without searching for a land. And I don't see the legendary land that makes your lands swamps anywhere. Just my input
Bert Lefevre Michele has an Urborg in play.
@@SkepticalAaron He still put two lands into play on the turn in question, which is illegal.
A bad judge ruling got me to quit playing paper magic forever. I think the proper play by Patrick would have been to walk out on camera.
The extra land thing in order to play elspeth was sketchy as hell
Pretty much reaffirming why I'll never play Magic seriously ever again. Too much rules lawyering. You could see Ancona pounce on the infraction and hope it would get escalated to a game loss.
Thanks for the Chapin show but you probably should not have put this argument on camera.
Michele looks so happy
glad he got a game lose here. Karma for cheating in a second land at 50:30 to bust out an Elspeth.
Ok, what happened to Chapin was wrong. Seriously, everyone saw that the godforsaken Tasigur did not move, and he showed everyone his whole hand, guys, Seriously, the match should have just continued.
It sucks that it had to happen to Pat... He was like uuhh I just might win and then boom! Sad day