The most robust commuter rail network, Tokyo, has an entire ring of downtown stations that shoulder each other. Once you build up that kind of density around that sort of connectivity, it’s easy to see why the busiest stations in the world are in Tokyo, along the Yamanote Line loop.
Ok, I know this sounds crazy, but, can we (Toronto residents or otherwise) all band together, and petition to Metrolinx that Reece be hired as a planner for the GO Expansion (if he is up for it of course :))? Seriously. His frustrations with the current plans are totally valid.. it grinds my gears that nobody at Metrolinx (or whoever is in charge of planning this) is thinking about these things. Who is with me?? Reece, what do you say? The GTA would be a much better transit-forward region if even half of your ideas are implemented.. just saying...
I would suggest you to take a look at the Finnish capital of Helsinki public transits current and future states. We are in the process of building a light rail system and expanding our tram system. The progress in the last 10 years has been quick and interesting. Could be a fun topic.
It IS interesting for me. Because I'm from down south, across the gulf. I can use that as propaganda material because we aren't doing any of that. Let's definitely not build new stations onto existing tracks and let's not densify the surrounding areas. Let's throw money instead at another four lane road that will solve our traffic problems. The throughput of cars is EvERYTHING. New tram route paid in part by the EU? Let's make it criss-cross across the harbour area so it would be slow AF.
12:34 "It's easy to not think about trips that people just aren't making today, and focus a ton on the trips that people are. Most people … are not gonna be advocating for trips that they don't even know they could be making more conveniently." Agreed
Frequency is the most important thing for regional rail to succeed. GO Transit was my first impression of a commuter rail, and the infrequent trains was what ruined my perception of what regional rail is. When I saw commuter and regional rail trains in Europe running as frequent as a metro, I was stunned and just couldn't believe at first of how trains could be run so well.
@@RMTransit The Lakeshore East definitely has the best frequencies. It's the Stouffville line that I used to take that had hourly frequencies at best, because of the single tracking. Let's hope the upgrades will make it better!
It helps that European countries are generally fairly compact compared to places like Canada(to say the least) and the US. It can't be understated how much the population density helps make more concentration of infrastructure and services viable. Here in the UK we are in totality the size of a single small/small medium US state, England for example is about 10% smaller than New York State with 3 times the population making rail networks critical infrastructure as we literally can't build enough road capacity to handle the number of people that need to travel.
Agree about frequency being important. Well, improving service in general can make a whole lot of difference, really, even if you don't build new infrastructure. When Jakarta modernized its system in early 2010s, the focus was mostly on service: the routes were simplified, a standardized fare system was adopted, the rolling stocks were modernized, and most importantly, the headway between trains were shortened up to 5 minutes in rush hours. In between 2011 and 2019, daily ridership actually tripled, and this was before major capacity-increasing station overhauls done in the last couple years.
There is also a plan to make Jakarta's downtown railway ring fully elevated, and if this could be achieved, the network could function more or less similar to an elevated metro system in the downtown (fully grade separated), and headways can be shortened to 3 minutes or even less.
Man, this is such an obvious win that Metrolinx could get Toronto in the next few years, and these stations wouldn't even be that expensive relative to the overall capital funding secured already.
In the SF Bay Area, Santa Clara station is developing to be such a station, since it connects Caltrain, ACE, and Capitol Corridor without having to go all the way into Diridon. It's also going to have a far better BART connection than the one that will be built at Diridon (which really needs a tunnel connection with moving walkway instead of a long surface walk across a parking lot). In Los Angeles, Burbank Airport station works well for transfers between regional and commuter lines, and also helps with the airport obviously. If it gets a subway extension it would become one of the best transfer stations in the system.
Millbrae, West Oakland, Balboa Park, MacArthur, Richmond, Mountain View, and Bay Fair could all be considered Shoulder stations in the Bay Area. Also the San Jose BART connection issue should not be that bad in the future when Diridon station is rebuilt. They will most likely need to rebuild Diridon for future Caltrain and High Speed Rail operations.
Superb video! Why has Stratford (London) become so important as a ‘shoulder station’, and overtaken Clapham Junction? Perhaps because Stratford is served by two Underground lines while its rival has none. Even greater Zurich (population about half-a-million) has ‘shoulder stations’ on its S-Bahn allowing interchange to trams and buses. They are at Hardbruck, Stadelhofen, Altstätten, Oerlikon and Stettbach, Even the station at the airport (10 kms from the city centre) performs the role of 'shoulder station' for passengers changing from train to train, bus or tram!
@@RMTransit It also has a mass of development, one of the largest shopping malls in the UK and very easy transfers on to the Tube. Clapham Junction at the moment is more of a rail to rail interchange - but pre-covid there were plans to rebuild the station into a similar hub to Stratford - it also has the problem that it's where two of the busiest lines in the UK cross and struggles with overcrowding - so adding in tube transfers will need to be handled carefully as a single line would be likely swamped. The Battersea Extension does include provision for an extension to Clapham Junction in the future.
I've been told that TfL avoided extending the Northern Line all the way to Clapham Junction, because they were afraid that the Northern Line would be overloaded with passengers (without Crossrail 2).
I believe Clapham Junction has always done worse than Stratford for passenger numbers in recent times. That's nothing to do with network topology, and more to do with how passenger numbers are counted. The Office of Rail and Road stats (which is what you're referring to), measure entrances and exits, which are easy to count with ticket barriers and ticket sales, not interchanges, which are hard to calculate. Battersea, the area where Clapham Junction sits (this is London, why would the station name have any bearing on the location), just has a lot less stuff and people outside it. It wouldn't even surprise me if the specific reason Stratford did so well is precisely because the interchange to the London Underground IS counted, because you have to leave the national rail station (the ORR only does the count for National Rail services, with TfL responsible for the London Underground). Also HS1 definitely wouldn't count towards the stats, that's at Stratford International (where naturally, there is no international connection), a completely separate station.
Clapham Jct is definitely a shoulder station, it's about the same distance away from the centre of London as Stratford is, and while not in the very centre, it is very much 'in London'. All it lacks is a tube connection, though it will be part of crossrail 2 when (if) that is built.
I think with the current funding issues that TfL are having Crossrail 2 is steadily moving further to if than when, or at least the start date for when will be pushed into the late 2030s at the earliest.
Clapham jct is missing so much connectivity to other services. Stratford has services on HS1, DLR, and the tube, while Clapham jct has neither. Hopefully they will one day extend the northern line from battersea to Clapham junction, that would make it so much better
@@lik7953 Clapham Junction has connectivity between lots of services - South Western Railway has two major suburban services that start at Waterloo, going via Wimbledon and Putney (both with a high number of branches to serve a large proportion of London and its surrounding towns) that pass through Clapham junction; SWR also has other services that go to other areas in the South; Southern has a service that goes through it from Victoria down through Croydon towards Brighton; and there are two Overground lines, the West London Line and the South London line. So really Clapham Junction (which is actually in Battersea, not Clapham) serves five different suburban services as well as national rail. Just because they're not all clearly named lines doesn't mean they're not different services which form a massive part of the London transit network.
I would say the usage for Clapham Junction is under estimated as the ranking from ORR only considers enter/exit, and not transfer within National Rail services. Based on the numbers from ORR, Clapham Junction has about 15.1 million while Stratford has 14.7 million when combining entry/exit and interchanges.
It seems that Canada doesn’t know what to do with passenger rail transport. They are just doing something in the hope they’re doing the right thing.They seem oblivious about transport hubs/transfer hubs and the benefits it has for passengers/commuters and for the transport companies. Because more passengers means more revenues. There is hardly any interweaving of different transport modes. I don’t think my country is an excellent example of public transport but we’re doing just fine. Which means a lot, really a lot better than Canada is showing us. Most train stations have a hub function and can easily be reached by pedestrians, cyclists, cars, taxis and busses. In the bigger cities also by trams and metro/subway trains. Some stations are also connected by ferry or waterbus. The biggest example in my country is Amsterdam Central Station which has many ferry lines at the north entrance of the station.
London has an advantage in that most of the infrastructure was created before cars came into play and amidst great excitement for the new technology which at the time was like the space race just with a lot more investment. You can see by the infrastructure the main obstacles they faced when building the network by the concentration of underground systems in the north where land was at a premium making it cheaper to tunnel and regional rail services in the south where land was cheap. Of course the best feature of the system is integration and your "mesh" metaphor is quite apt, very often there are multiple services available to get to the same place which helps keep people moving when a line or lines fail, but again trying to build that now in a large urban environment that hasn't planned around the concept is both difficult, complex and wildly expensive, crossrail will go north of £30 billion by the time it's complete and HS2 will go North of £100 billion(possibly could go to 50% on top of that judging by past state projects) due largely to the development costs of connecting city centres with brand new infrastructure.
Metro-North in New York maybe originated this concept with 125th St and Fordham. Lots of passengers change lines at 125th or Fordham, and the road specifically added Fordham (~1990) as a stop on the New Haven line to accommodate transfers without having to travel as far as Manhattan. Changing at 125th still saves 10-15 minutes of bumping along through the GCT tunnels, and transfers are really easy here. Many passengers with reverse commutes or jobs in upper Manhattan use 125th as an origin station too. Probably not the first shoulder stations if you count European systems, but maybe the first in North America?
Venezia Mestre station in Venice is a perfect example of shoulder station. Located in the mainland part of the city, it is the most important railway junction and transfer hub of Northeastern Italy, where all the lines to/from Venice converge into the 4-track bridge across the lagoon to Venezia S. Lucia, the terminus in Venice proper. Of course, all passengers transfer in Mestre instead of crossing the bridge twice, which takes 10 minutes each way. Furthermore, all through trains between Rome/Naples or Milan and Udine or Trieste, in the region of Friuli-Venezia Giulia, reverse in Mestre.
Yes, Venice Mestre is a very good example. The intercity trains from Trieste to Milan all stop at Venice Mestre but they don't need to reverse there. I think that trains from Udine to Milan via Treviso also do not need to reverse their direction at Mestre. Trains that run between Trieste and Venice S. Lucia do need to reserve at Mestre. I think there is no direct curve to allow trains from Trieste to travel straight to S. Lucia without stopping and reversing at Mestre.
If you need a good example, how „shoulder-trips“ can be made convinent, Look at Zürich, Stettbach. The S-Bahn from the two biggest regional Cities around Zürich, Winterthur and Uster, merge Line just before a 5 Kilometer long tunnel that crosses a mountain-rage and ends just at the lake-side next to downtown. The Station Stettbach is at the begining of the Tunnel already underground and the timetable is laied, that the train towards downtown from one regional city arrives about 3 before the train from downtown to the other regional city departs. So not only you have a nearly perfectly placed junction station, but the time table is made to use it for trips not going downtown
As a local, I can inform viewers that Chicago's piss-poor regional rail networking on Metra isn't ENTIRELY its fault. Metra LEASES existing trackage from the freight rail companies (UPRR and BNSF), so they're kinda stuck using what's already there. EDIT: the only trackage that Metra owns are the rails within their three hubs: Union Station and Ogilvie Transportation Center in Chicago and Aurora Transportation Center in, well, Aurora.
I didnt understood the existence of Santa Apolónia in lisbon with the Station of Oriente. But after this video I realized that Santa Apolónia acts as a Downtown station and Oriente acts as a shoulder to the northern line and the belt line, that will conect Sintra line and the southern lines by the 25 of April bridge. I tougth it was kept by historic reasons or to turn trains, because it feels redundanct. that area is perfectly served by Rossio Station and the metro serves all train stations.
The term shoulder stations and how you defined it immediately made me think of Munich. There are two major shoulder stations there, Pasing to the west and Munich East. These stations are very important as they are the end points of the S-Bahn trunk line where almost all suburban S-Bahn lines converge. Some lines diverge a couple of stations before Pasing, but the tunnel between Munich East and Central Station is shared by literally ALL S-Bahn lines. Which is actually why they're building a second S-Bahn tunnel right now, for express services between East, Central, and Laim (one station before Pasing) just to take some heat off of the existing tunnel which has been at capacity for years. But to get back to Munich's shoulder stations, they are obviously HUGE transfer hubs for the S-Bahn system. But there's also a lot of regional and intercity trains that stop at both of them. Hell, Pasing even has a bunch of the high speed ICE trains stopping there, so people from the west side of the city don't necessarily have to go all the way to the city centre if they want to take the ICE.
For routes approaching Kyiv from the east we have Darnytsia station. It has a Metro station and it's on the circular commuter line (that I must try one day) and is an especially good example of a strategic shoulder station because unlike Kyiv Station, it's on the left bank of the Dnieper river. Both metros that cross the Dnieper take at least five minutes to do so so Darnytsia is ideally situated.
When you first mentioned the shoulder station, I thought of Back Bay Station in Boston which I think is a great example of one. Then you kept going talking about the junction stations and I realized all of the other junctions that could be better served in Boston. In particular, the Forest Hills station has several lines go through it but only one line stop at it.
I love that you showed Vauxhall station at 1:26 as that’s a perfect example. I always used this station as opposed to Waterloo, not just because the connection on the tube was easier, but also because when I was counter commuting it was always annoying having to wait to find out which platform my train was going from at the terminus station. As Vauxhall had fewer platforms the train always used the same platform, so there was never that annoying rush of everyone to the platform when it was announced, you just showed up and got on a train.
It doesn't have the huge transfer potential, but Harlem-125th Street on Metro-North is a good example of this. Its ridership has exploded and on every train I take into NYC I see many people get off there (and I use it sometimes myself). In fact sometimes it's faster to just get off there and transfer to the subway than to ride to Grand Central because some of the Park Ave tunnel is slow and the slog of people exiting at GCT eats up time too.
What we really need is more cities to build an S Bahn like Philly. Have like 5 stations serving the urban core and areas around it. Trains continue thru the cbd and go out to a different suburb. Because as you get closer to the urban core more lines converge, you get subway like frequency through the tunnel. Also if you wanna see an interesting example of different lines serving the same station after the lines already diverged, look up North Philadelphia Station
This speaks to me. I live in a Philly suburb, and to get to another suburb via public transit, the total trip is planned to be two hours long because I have to get to Philadelphia first. Whereas driving on a local road takes 45 minutes.
Amazing and interesting content as always, keep it up! In Melbourne, even though we do currently have "all our eggs in the same basket" through the city, we do have a few shoulder stations, namely Richmond and North Melbourne, for the south and north groups of lines respectively. They move some capacity away from the main city stations Flinders Street and Southern Cross, and also act as junction stations for transfers to other trains, as well as local trams and busses.
I think if Reece knew more about North Melbourne Station and Richmond Station and possibly also Caulfield Station and Footscray Station, he might be very impressed. Especially with North Melbourne and Richmond. Because not only can you change trains so that you can go the opposite direction around the loop that your train may go. But also it means that you can change from V/line(the railway that covers regional Cities to Melbourne) to what Reece would call Melbourne's Regional Lines ( what I call Metro Trains (, thereby being able to go around the loop which V/line does not use. North Melbourne you can go North, West and South West or South if you call Williamstown . Richmond you can go East, South East and South (if you call Frankston, South rather than South East). Caulfield and Footscray Stations are juntion stations.
He seems to dismiss and even overlook the excellent train and tram systems we have here in Melbourne. How can Toronto be better than Melbourne, they don't even have an electrified suburban system. Take a trip down here, use the system, then form a truthful opinion of our transport options.
@@harrygoldun5779Reece has actually been to Australia and made videos about the train systems in all the major cities. In general he's quite a fan of Australian transit. But he lives in Canada so he's obviously gonna focus more on that.
I think a deep look into Zurich would be very interesting as I think there are quite some similarities to Toronto like bi-level Regional trains and Trams. Zurich hasn’t built a Subway but I think you will really like how the S-Bahn Zurich is built up (don’t think that S-Bahn in Switzerland is the same as in Germany).
I completely agree with your assessment and it seems really weird they aren’t considering this in Toronto. As a German this seems completely obvious to me, as pretty much all somewhat relevant cities have these stations, often as a leftover of smaller cities being absorbed. Munich-Pasing and Ostbahnhof, Augsburg-Hochzoll, Karlsruhe-Durlach or Berlin-Spandau are all great examples of this. Some of these even have regular long-distance service, because they are that busy.
Clapham Junction is a super shoulder - has connections out West towards Reading as well as South West, Southern, Thameslink and Gatwick Express. I have changed there so many times in my life.
I really wish you'd look at Perth's public transportation, although you've covered so much of the PT in Australia that you're an honorary Aussie. Perth really became a city with terrific PT, considering its very much a post-war city, suburban city.
Interestingly, during the pandemic Perth's rail ridership has been much greater than that of BART (~45m vs 25m pa; p-to-date ridership stats are available for both systems.) This is because of Perth's isolation, that they managed to keep COVID out and could still work in offices.
I just (re) watched this video, and saw this as an example of something that Perth does right, with stations like Claisebrook, Bayswater, and in the future, Cannington as well Though to me, it's common sense that back tracking is bad and should be avoided if possible.
Auckland, NZ has a similar situation with a 'junction station' in the form of Newmarket. Three of the four suburban rail lines converge on that station, which is directly south of the junction for the line to Swanson and Whangarei. Annoyingly the only way to transfer to the Eastern Line is to go right into the city centre, then you pretty much head straight back out of the station.
If someone hasn't said it already, Haymarket (Edinburgh) is an accidental shoulder station that works fantastically well. Acts as a quicker change to the airport tram vs Main Station as well as serving offices in Western Edinburgh
12:47 "most people are not transit experts... And they're not going to be advocating for trips they don't even know they could be making more conveniently " This! Your frustration is right target!
One example of using a shoulder station as a connection point with metro is the recent addition of Pont Cardinet station on line 14 extention to Saint Ouen, that connects with the St Lazare suburbian rail network line L at that station. It is a densely populated area (evenmore with the recent renovation and new buildings built there) that had no metro connection nearby. Having a connection there enhances the possibilities while freeing some capacity at St Lazare as well. Plans to get Line J of the suburbian rail to stop there were made but dropped because of costs, in the meantime, all trains from line L will stop there and not just some of them so the station will be served with a 3 min frequency in each way, plus de metro...
Berlin is full of secondary hubs. The largest one of them is Ostkreuz. A majority of S-Bahn-lines stop there, you have a ton of regional rail going in different directions (Some of the lines don't even touch Berlin Central), a tram line is being built there and you have some buses there. Also the station is in the middle of a well-developed district with it's own culture and personality, while Berlin Central is sitting in the middle of a concrete wasteland.
Ok here’s my spin on this since i’m a huge regional rail/commuter rail fan . Shoulder stations? : well in NY we definitely have those : Jamaica , Hicksville, Newark and Hoboken . For junctions of course there’s Jamaica and then there’s Secaucus
In the Toronto/Ontario context, I would like to hear your opinions on what Metrolinks should do after completing the current regional rail upgrade. I can't wait to see frequent, electic (Hopefully EMU) service throughout the GTHA. But I have not seen much about what can be done with the old diesel locomotives and cars (Although I did see a while back one used on the Polar Express to Moosonee). How should these be redeployed to extend service and connections to Toronto for other regions? For example, a Niagara regional (pop:500k) system going from fort Erie (Buffalo) in a partial loop to Niagara could being many people into the system and add trips, while only using existing rail and trains. Likewise, existing rail and trains could add a huge amount of connectivity to Kitchener- Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph (pop: 750k), a region that is really pushing for better tranist. This would mean more intracity trains in Kitchener and lines connecting the region, and potentially new service directly to Hamilton, still all with mainly existing infrastructure. And smaller Brandford (pop: 100k) is a fairly large population center that could be used as a through route for Direct Hamilton -London trains and Hamilton Commuter trains on the Hagersville Sub, and could be turned into a real growth hub, with commuters going to Hamilton, London, and industrial jobs at nanicoke, and growth as a shoulder station for commuters coming inward. I haven't seen much on what Go should do next, with existing equipment, and there is a lot out there. Yes Toronto is THE place in Ontario for Transit, but there are other, rapidly growing, regions with extensive existing infrastructure that should not be forgotten.
Now I am not from Canada, so my idea might not make too much sense, but what about a Toronto-Kingston Regional GO service that would run alongside the existing Via services and take over some of their smaller stops? New stations (potentially request stops) could also be built to serve smaller towns like Newcastle (near Bowmanville) or Brighton (near Trenton). That way Via services would be sped up a bit and overall there would be more departures making travel more attractive. I have lived in Berlin for most of my life and its surrounding state is quite sparsely populated by German standards, and yet trains still regularly (mostly every hour) serve the smaller towns inbetween the bigger centres. And there is almost no public transportation in these smaller towns and villages, yet people still ride the train. I therefore think that with a few small park & ride facilities at the smaller stations, this could also work in Canada, at least along this line.
Surprised North Toronto station wasn't mentioned? That could be VIA's station right there. Or alternate GO routes where 2nd or 3rd trains could divert from northern and north western routes to North Toronto instead of Union and allow commuters easier subway riding north or south and lessen the mayhem at Bloor/Yonge and/or Union.
I like shoulder stations, we have some here in Sydney on the suburban and regional networks (Hamilton and Newcastle Interchange and central and Redfern as was mentioned) and they are a good buffer for transfers since the shoulder stations can be used for most suburban transfers whereas central stations can be used for intercity services and other suburban transfers that don't pass the shoulder station
My personal example of a shoulder/junction station is Römisches Theater in Mainz. This station is where the S6 of the Rhine-Neckar S-Bahn (Mainz-Mannheim), S8 of the Rhine-Main S-Bahn (Wiesbaden-Frankfurt), which are timed in such a way that the train to Mainz comes in a couple minutes earlier than the train from Mainz, RB75 (Wiesbaden-Darmstadt), RE2/3 (Frankfurt-Saarbrücken/Koblenz) as well as the one or another singular regional train. It's also conveniently located right next to Altstadt so it's a very useful destination on its own. Wiesbaden is a bit more difficult: There is Wiesbaden Ost which is served by S-Bahn only and is the point where S1, S8 and S9 converge but also is located in the middle of an industrial zone and Mainz-Kastell (confusing, I know) may also count as this since it's the last stop before the S1 and S9 diverge, is also served by the RB10 (which is limited stop between Wiesbaden and Frankfurt) and even features a major bus stop close by. Bischofsheim - not far from both cities - may also count since this is served by non-S-Bahn trains (including RE2/3), is the last station before the RB75 diverges to Darmstadt and also is the station where the S9 converges with the S8. As a bonus, all of these stations are located in the same fare zone.
Hi Reece! I enjoyed this video, as usual, and I'm continually impressed by your effort and dedication to your channel. It truly shows in the quality of your videos. I disagree with your point about Metra Electric being the only Metra line having shoulder stations. It has numerous, and a few of the stations allow transfers to the South Shore Line serving northwest Indiana. The BNSF, the line with the highest ridership, has 3 shoulder stations within Chicago. For example, the Halsted station is a 3/4 mile south of the University of Illinois at Chicago which has an enrollment of over 34k students. This eliminates the need for students to go into Union and then travel back west via numerous busses or the Blue Line. I see potential for a shoulder station at Roosevelt Road located in the shared Amtrak and Metra yards. The Union Pacific North and Union Pacific Northwest lines serve a junction station at Clybourn with a Blue Line station at Western (O'Hare Branch) and a Brown and Purple Line station at Armitage each a 1 mile west and east of the Clybourn station respectively. The second junction station in the city is Western Avenue that serves the Milwaukee District North, Milwaukee District West, and North Central Service. All in all I completely agree that Metra has a long way to go to even touch comparable regional rail systems in Europe. I do see progress though. There is actually quite a comprehensive rail plan called the CREATE program that aims to untangle the freight and passenger operations. Unfortunately, the Metra STAR line proposal was abandoned although many Chicagoland residents would greatly appreciate such a service. Keep doing what you're doing Reece! I love the channel and I love to talk transit! Cheers :)
Thanks so much! My implication on shoulder stations was really much more focused on the core of the network - that said I think without high frequency all day service such stations actually do have a lot less value since they can’t be used for as many transfers
They have stations that could be upgraded and receive more service to become shoulder stations, for sure. Another good location would be near the Near West Side and Fulton Market
São Paulo is interesting because as time went by, the shoulder stations became more and more the main stations for the regional rail, since they werent as restricted by space and capacity as the old (and historical) central one. Today they function almost as 2 terminus west (Barra Funda) and east (Brás) for some of the regional lines, while the old main one (Luz) sits in the middle, connected by 2 of the lines + the airport connection and 2 metro lines. Barra Funda and Brás are also connected by the same metro line, which terminates at BF, and links both to the actual downtown (though Luz was historically the central station, São Paulo's downtown is up on a hill, so the railroad passes through the flatlands surrounding it). There's also a third shoulder/junction station east that as been receiving a lot of development around it lately (Tatuapé), and with the undergoing expansion of the line 2 of the metro, there will probably be a fourth station further east (Penha). On the west side however its kinda trash, before the shoulder station, the lines stop at stations that are a few meters apart but are not connected. Another thing is that when the intercity lines finally returns in the next century or two, they will end at Barra Funda and Brás, not Luz.
Also, Rio de Janeiro has more of a "Union" station, where all the lines terminate (Central do Brasil), and it has a few shoulder and junction stations, with a few of them being a stop to all the lines, like Maracanã
Clapham Junction and Stratford are great examples for London. I think there are others (albeit smaller ones) that could be considered "shoulder stations" like Finsbury Park for King's Cross or West Hampstead for St. Pancras. You could even say that London Bridge is a shoulder station for Charing Cross and Cannon Street. There's also a case for stations outside of London like Watford Junction, East Croydon (I know it's technically in London), and Stevenage which basically act as "shoulder stations" for London terminals on intercity journeys.
This video is really good, i must say. You talked about junction station. In Italy, in the city of Pisa there is a station, Pisa San Rossore, famous beacuse is the closest station to the Leaning Tower, that is built exactly on a junction, giving its particular triangular shape. This station gives the possibility to switch trains beetween the ones directed to the north and the ones directed to Lucca.
6:22 that's a familiar sight, is that an Italian regional train b roll? anyway, shoulder station are great, some of the busiest trains I've ever been in where those going from "Pisa centrale" to "Pisa san rossore" as they served the university students coming in from nearby towns.
I'm pretty sure that Jamaica station on the Long Island Rail Road would qualify. I believe it's further out than some of the other examples provided, and it isn't used much for doubling back, but is a major transfer station otherwise.
I think Woodside would qualify better because it's closer to Manhattan and has the Port Washington Branch also, even if every other line there runs together all the way to Jamaica
You are literally talking about Warsaw, Poland with 3 big stations on the mainline, and additionally another station with Metro access, AND two of the 3 big stations will get metro connections with the opening (2027-28) of the 3rd Metro line, AND ther already exists a ,,bypass'' line through northern suburbs that has a Metro commection.
I'd say yes, though the network is very limited since it only has one single line. A great example of regional/suburban rail in Southeast Asia would be the Jakarta KRL, which is almost metro-like in terms of service. Bangkok and KL also have their own suburban rail systems, but none of them are utilized as heavily as Jakarta's. Just a quick comparison: Jakarta KRL system length has a combined length of around 418 km (on ~220 km of tracks) but transport more than a million passenger daily before the pandemic, while KL regional rail, with around 287 km of tracks, transport less than 90,000 people daily.
Some other good examples of shoulder stations in the UK: Sandhills (on Merseyrail) Liverpool South Parkway (Linking Merseyrail with the WCML & CLC) Meadowhall (A junction stations near Sheffield) Motherwell (South of Glasgow) Haymarket (West of Edinburgh)
This makes me think of the problem with Sounder commuter rail’s lack of stations within Seattle besides King Street. While Sounder doesn’t have the multi-line connectivity of GO, through-running services with just a couple more stations within Seattle could immensely improve the connectivity and utility of that line and a fair chunk of the rest of the Puget Sound transportation network. Yet our current service model is still focused on suburb to downtown commutes that have changed immensely.
The Metra Electric (and my favorite line, the South Shore Line) actually has a few shoulder stations. 55th-56th-57th street station, Roosevelt, and Van Buren Street, with the Terminus being Millennium. As for Junction Stations, Kensington/115th on the Metra Electric, Clybourn on Metra's UP-N and UP-NW lines, and Technically Joliet on the Rock Island and Heritage Corridor lines.
New Haven has a shoulder station with State Street connecting Shoreline East, Hartford Line, New Haven Line, Northeast Regional, Shuttle, and Valley Flyer Trains without having to use New Haven Union
A possible junction that (I hope) they’ll explore in the near future is one between the Milton, Barrie & Kitchener Lines at Bloor. This would of course also be accessible to people transferring from Line 2 on the TTC Subway, but could also enable smooth transfers between GO Lines. To make it make sense tho, regular all-day service needs to be introduced on all the lines, including the Milton Line. It’s the first spot south of the junction of all 3 lines (yes, I realize that the Barrie Line is still separate at this point). A sheltered pedestrian walkway with a fast people mover like at an airport could provide connections between the Barrie Line corridor near Symington & the Milton & Kitchener/UP Lines near Dundas West. It could also continue on to Lansdowne Station to provide additional connectivity to the TTC. But at a minimum should be connected to Dundas West station so folks don’t need to go outside til they board their train. I think this could be the major “west end” shoulder station in Toronto, rather than Liberty, as it allows transfers earlier in the journey as opposed to at King-Liberty, riders wouldn’t have to ride their respective line south to transfer and head back north again. It would make a nice juxtaposition with East Harbour. It just needs a new proper name as “Bloor” is too confusing.
In Warsaw, without the huge construction on Warsaw West, there are two shoulder station, Warsaw West and Warsaw East, which are linked with a 4-track line stopping at Warsaw Central (long-distance services) and Warsaw City-Center (W-wa Śródmieście, local services). People who are going between different Polish cities can change at either of these stations, not using Warsaw Central, which is used by most people going out of Warsaw. In addition to that the local line stops close to the center twice more (Powiśle and Ochota). I think it's a really good setup, but when sth breaks on either W-wa East or West it's chaos everywhere.
London has a couple shoulder stations Stratford-GEML(greater anglia x overground x c2c(weekends) x underground) Clapham junction-SWML(overground x southern x southwestern) Finsbury Park-ECML(Thameslink x great northern) London Bridge-SEML/SML(Gatwick express x thameslink x southern x southeastern x underground) Watford junction-WCML(avanti WC x LNWR x overground x southern)
There's one mistake though the entire video re: the Stouffville line... no trips stop at either Scarborough OR Danforth, meaning, if you want to go from Kennedy to Rough Hill by go, you have to take an extra 30 minutes each way. Also, the worst part about the Stouffville line not stopping between Union and Kennedy is that facillities already exist to support stops, and it's not significantly slower either.
Would you say that Philly has a good amount of Shoulder stations? We have three large stations in the main business areas of Center City and University City, and then there’s North Broad and Temple University on the lines built by the Reading
Just an alert to the creator - at 3:26 all the audio ends up going to one side, really weird on headphones. It comes back after the segment. Just in case it's not a known issue for future videos
Wow. It must be really frustrating for you. I even found it frustrating to commute from one line to another within Jakarta commuter rail system even though it has "loop line" with 5 junction stations. Are you sure it is a regional rail and not a torture device?
Yep, it's honestly frustrating to experience how bad regional rail systems are in many North American cities (especially in the US). Like, they already have a lot of advantages in terms of infrastructure, but the service are generally underwhelming, especially with their infrequent schedules (I've been stuck at a suburb station in the winter once after missing an evening train, and it was not a pleasing experience). Jakarta, meanwhile, has inadequate infrastructure (for a city of its size) but make use of the existing network quite efficiently, I'd say.
Clapham J is great. But it works as a cross rather than a junction. Brighton line commuters can painlessly switch to SW services to Waterloo, and SW commuters can switch to Victoria services. This gives greater choice in how commuters enter central London. Also note there is a fare incentive for using Vauxhall. Vauxhall is in zone 2, and SW commuters heading to Westminster area (i.e. lots and lots of civil servants) can save £££ a year if they get off at Vauxhall and walk.
I have to kind of praise New Jersey Transit here. I live next to the Morristown line, and NJT does really good cross platform transfers at Newark Broad St station and Summit station between the three lines, in all directions. On weekends at least.
Germany also has some good example in berlin in north south direction there are Südkreuz and Gesundbrunnen wich are only a few km from the main station but still even ice gonna call on all of them because these are the best places to interchange because they serve the ringbahn
Building transit only costs so much because the governments just pay private companies to build it and they charge massive amounts and take as long as possible to finish construction so they can milk the taxpayers as much as they can. Governments should have their own construction workers and equipment so they can build it themselves for a fraction of the cost.
In Berlin, Germany, there's a shoulder station north of the Main station (Berlin Hauptbahnhof) called Gesundbrunnen. It's got many platforms and integrates with the metro (S-Bahn). It allows transfers from the Airport Express onto north-bound Intercity trains without going into Berlin City Centre. It's that simple.
You might call me crazy, but there is a simple solution to create a good network of shoulder and junction stations which help to reliefe the high utilization of the inner network: Its a ring/circle line! Greetings from Berlin.
They've been talking about trying that in London since the 70s, so at the usual rate of progressive we can expect it delivered about a week before the asteroid hits the Earth in a thousand years or so, and it'll still come in late and over budget.
Yep! Jakarta also has such a loop line. Well, the route in service did not form a complete loop, but it connects to practically any other lines, and its incredibly useful, being the second busiest in the whole network.
When it comes to regional rail in Montreal, I'd like to see the inevitable REM replacement to the Mont-Saint-Hilaire line branch off between Saint-Lambert and Gare Longueil-Saint-Hubert along the old line that connects to Grandby that's now a bike path. There's more then enough demand for one or two stations in Longueil before the 30, plus stops at Chambly (connecting to the inevitable REM main line extension to there), Richelieu, Marievile, Rougemont, Saint-Cesaire, then finally Granby. This line would connect a bunch of the exoburbs to the network as well as connecting one of Montreal's largest exoburbs directly to downtown, and potentially give another chain of exoburbs between Montreal and a major exoburb if the Mont-Saint-Hilaire line was extended to Saint-Hyacinthe, and for both of these lines to be able to transfer before having to cross the river to downtown. Would certainly be convenient for me since I have family in St-Bruno and would definitely only drive to Granby and take a train to Saint-Lambert to transfer there if that was an option.
Last time I was in Toronto, I took the Stouffville Line from Union Station to visit the Pacific Mall. I was very rushed because the mall opened at 11 AM (although some businesses opened later) and the last train back was at 3:15 PM. I had trouble understanding this. If it is a commuter line, why does it not run during traditional commuter hours?
Boston, or the MBTA has some sort of shoulder stations in back bay, ruggles,forest hills, and malden center. They also have some stations to spread out development, such as boston landing, which the place the station serves is really nice actually
I like how you call it “suburban rail” and not “commuter rail”. Reframing it away from “bringing commuters to the CBD” to “Allowing people to travel around the region”
It's a pleasant surprise to see Vauxhall get a mention. It's always been a bit of a poor cousin to Waterloo and Clapham, but it does get a lot of traffic, helped by being on the Victoria Line. It'll be interesting to see how much busier it gets as the Nine Elms development grows. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get some upgrades. Clapham is great, but it really needs to get on the Tube map. Hopefully they'll extend the Northern Line there before long (if TFL can sort out it's financial problems).
I'm surprised you mentioned Sunny Side but didn't mention Harlem 125th street, which is one of the most important stops on Metro North. (Speaking of which Metro North video when?)
Very interesting video! I’m curious about what your opinion is on the recently announced plan in Montréal to build the REM East on an existing rail right of way on Souligny. Some people are upset about the fact that there will no longer be a connection at Honoré-Beaugrand on the green line. I think this is certainly a downside, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal because there will still be other connections to the metro and people who want to get to Honoré-Beaugrand from further east could still take a bus there. Given the opposition to building an elevated metro on Sherbrooke East, I think this is an acceptable compromise. Unfortunately, some people are still opposed to building the REM even on the Souligny railway right-of-way despite the fact that it already acts as a divider in the neighbourhood. I get the sense that here in Montréal, a lot people’s opposition to building elevated metro lines comes from the fact that our metro is entirely underground, so people aren’t so familiar with what elevated metros are actually like. They assume that it’ll have a similar effect to the elevated highways that we have, such as the Autoroute Métropolitaine (A-40), which are indeed very disruptive to the urban environment.
I agree. Spending money for a brand new platform, and then no trains stop there for key transfers. That's a real waste of taxpayer money. It's mismanagement like this that pushes people not to vote for more transit. Speed is not the only thing that makes a railroad great. Frequency and service connections are quite important as well.
Vauxhall station (Waterloo lines and Victoria Line) which you rightly see as a shoulder station is the station for the head office of the British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6). Its striking building faces the Thames and features now in many photos. But has no name at the entrance. If you want to see Britain's spies travelling to and from work they are passing through Vauxhall every day.
Your voice track, on your sponsor spot, is coming through the left channel only. There is audible background music on the right channel, and the voice channel comes through both sides immediately before and after the spot. You might want to remix your spot before your next video.
Hey would you be interested in talking about the proposed Highway 413 in Ontario. I'd be interested to hear your take on the highway to see if there are any redeeming qualities to the highway. At the very least I think this is an important project for Ontario's future and deserves a spotlight.
The best is a ring of local transit with a cross of regional transit like Berlin has. Wherever you live. In the center, north, south, west or east there is a regional / ic hub. And no i am not biased as a berliner. 😎🤪 But you definitely have the better view with that lake skyline.
Reese, Why don't you have somone on you channel from Metrolinx and just ask them about your proposed shoulder stations? They seem like such obvious and relatively inexpensive addtions to the GO expansion I'd be curious to hear what their respose would be. By doing so, you would also bring the issue top of mind for them.
Instead of building a redundant BRT along HWY 407 ETR, they should build a GO Train line instead. This will be adequate for the amount of people who could potentially use such a line. Plus, something like this would probably be owned by Metrolinx making it possible to have crazy frequent frequencies. Not to mention you’d have an incredibly encompassing circumferential line that could easy a lot of the strain on the already burdened Line 1.
The most robust commuter rail network, Tokyo, has an entire ring of downtown stations that shoulder each other. Once you build up that kind of density around that sort of connectivity, it’s easy to see why the busiest stations in the world are in Tokyo, along the Yamanote Line loop.
Tokyo has an outer ring to yamanote too
Ok, I know this sounds crazy, but, can we (Toronto residents or otherwise) all band together, and petition to Metrolinx that Reece be hired as a planner for the GO Expansion (if he is up for it of course :))? Seriously. His frustrations with the current plans are totally valid.. it grinds my gears that nobody at Metrolinx (or whoever is in charge of planning this) is thinking about these things. Who is with me?? Reece, what do you say? The GTA would be a much better transit-forward region if even half of your ideas are implemented.. just saying...
I would suggest you to take a look at the Finnish capital of Helsinki public transits current and future states. We are in the process of building a light rail system and expanding our tram system. The progress in the last 10 years has been quick and interesting. Could be a fun topic.
I agree. And while we're on the topic of shoulder stations, I think we should mention Pasila, which is a very good shoulder station.
Enpä taida olla ainoa suomalainen tällä kanavalla. Tuo sama on käynyt omassakin mielessä.
This would be interesting to non-Finns too.
It IS interesting for me. Because I'm from down south, across the gulf. I can use that as propaganda material because we aren't doing any of that. Let's definitely not build new stations onto existing tracks and let's not densify the surrounding areas. Let's throw money instead at another four lane road that will solve our traffic problems. The throughput of cars is EvERYTHING.
New tram route paid in part by the EU? Let's make it criss-cross across the harbour area so it would be slow AF.
I'm all for this too! I'd love to learn more about PT in Helsinki.
12:34 "It's easy to not think about trips that people just aren't making today, and focus a ton on the trips that people are. Most people … are not gonna be advocating for trips that they don't even know they could be making more conveniently."
Agreed
Frequency is the most important thing for regional rail to succeed.
GO Transit was my first impression of a commuter rail, and the infrequent trains was what ruined my perception of what regional rail is. When I saw commuter and regional rail trains in Europe running as frequent as a metro, I was stunned and just couldn't believe at first of how trains could be run so well.
GO is better than most too!
@@RMTransit The Lakeshore East definitely has the best frequencies. It's the Stouffville line that I used to take that had hourly frequencies at best, because of the single tracking. Let's hope the upgrades will make it better!
It helps that European countries are generally fairly compact compared to places like Canada(to say the least) and the US. It can't be understated how much the population density helps make more concentration of infrastructure and services viable. Here in the UK we are in totality the size of a single small/small medium US state, England for example is about 10% smaller than New York State with 3 times the population making rail networks critical infrastructure as we literally can't build enough road capacity to handle the number of people that need to travel.
Agree about frequency being important. Well, improving service in general can make a whole lot of difference, really, even if you don't build new infrastructure. When Jakarta modernized its system in early 2010s, the focus was mostly on service: the routes were simplified, a standardized fare system was adopted, the rolling stocks were modernized, and most importantly, the headway between trains were shortened up to 5 minutes in rush hours. In between 2011 and 2019, daily ridership actually tripled, and this was before major capacity-increasing station overhauls done in the last couple years.
There is also a plan to make Jakarta's downtown railway ring fully elevated, and if this could be achieved, the network could function more or less similar to an elevated metro system in the downtown (fully grade separated), and headways can be shortened to 3 minutes or even less.
Man, this is such an obvious win that Metrolinx could get Toronto in the next few years, and these stations wouldn't even be that expensive relative to the overall capital funding secured already.
Absolutely, since they are all most above ground!
In the SF Bay Area, Santa Clara station is developing to be such a station, since it connects Caltrain, ACE, and Capitol Corridor without having to go all the way into Diridon. It's also going to have a far better BART connection than the one that will be built at Diridon (which really needs a tunnel connection with moving walkway instead of a long surface walk across a parking lot).
In Los Angeles, Burbank Airport station works well for transfers between regional and commuter lines, and also helps with the airport obviously. If it gets a subway extension it would become one of the best transfer stations in the system.
Millbrae, West Oakland, Balboa Park, MacArthur, Richmond, Mountain View, and Bay Fair could all be considered Shoulder stations in the Bay Area. Also the San Jose BART connection issue should not be that bad in the future when Diridon station is rebuilt. They will most likely need to rebuild Diridon for future Caltrain and High Speed Rail operations.
Superb video! Why has Stratford (London) become so important as a ‘shoulder station’, and overtaken Clapham Junction? Perhaps because Stratford is served by two Underground lines while its rival has none.
Even greater Zurich (population about half-a-million) has ‘shoulder stations’ on its S-Bahn allowing interchange to trams and buses. They are at Hardbruck, Stadelhofen, Altstätten, Oerlikon and Stettbach, Even the station at the airport (10 kms from the city centre) performs the role of 'shoulder station' for passengers changing from train to train, bus or tram!
It also has the DLR and HS1 links which are great for connectivity
Oerlikon is especially large, with 8 platforms and many long-distance trains.
@@RMTransit It also has a mass of development, one of the largest shopping malls in the UK and very easy transfers on to the Tube.
Clapham Junction at the moment is more of a rail to rail interchange - but pre-covid there were plans to rebuild the station into a similar hub to Stratford - it also has the problem that it's where two of the busiest lines in the UK cross and struggles with overcrowding - so adding in tube transfers will need to be handled carefully as a single line would be likely swamped. The Battersea Extension does include provision for an extension to Clapham Junction in the future.
I've been told that TfL avoided extending the Northern Line all the way to Clapham Junction, because they were afraid that the Northern Line would be overloaded with passengers (without Crossrail 2).
I believe Clapham Junction has always done worse than Stratford for passenger numbers in recent times. That's nothing to do with network topology, and more to do with how passenger numbers are counted. The Office of Rail and Road stats (which is what you're referring to), measure entrances and exits, which are easy to count with ticket barriers and ticket sales, not interchanges, which are hard to calculate. Battersea, the area where Clapham Junction sits (this is London, why would the station name have any bearing on the location), just has a lot less stuff and people outside it.
It wouldn't even surprise me if the specific reason Stratford did so well is precisely because the interchange to the London Underground IS counted, because you have to leave the national rail station (the ORR only does the count for National Rail services, with TfL responsible for the London Underground).
Also HS1 definitely wouldn't count towards the stats, that's at Stratford International (where naturally, there is no international connection), a completely separate station.
Clapham Jct is definitely a shoulder station, it's about the same distance away from the centre of London as Stratford is, and while not in the very centre, it is very much 'in London'. All it lacks is a tube connection, though it will be part of crossrail 2 when (if) that is built.
I think with the current funding issues that TfL are having Crossrail 2 is steadily moving further to if than when, or at least the start date for when will be pushed into the late 2030s at the earliest.
Clapham jct is missing so much connectivity to other services. Stratford has services on HS1, DLR, and the tube, while Clapham jct has neither. Hopefully they will one day extend the northern line from battersea to Clapham junction, that would make it so much better
@@lik7953 Clapham Junction has connectivity between lots of services - South Western Railway has two major suburban services that start at Waterloo, going via Wimbledon and Putney (both with a high number of branches to serve a large proportion of London and its surrounding towns) that pass through Clapham junction; SWR also has other services that go to other areas in the South; Southern has a service that goes through it from Victoria down through Croydon towards Brighton; and there are two Overground lines, the West London Line and the South London line.
So really Clapham Junction (which is actually in Battersea, not Clapham) serves five different suburban services as well as national rail. Just because they're not all clearly named lines doesn't mean they're not different services which form a massive part of the London transit network.
I would say the usage for Clapham Junction is under estimated as the ranking from ORR only considers enter/exit, and not transfer within National Rail services.
Based on the numbers from ORR, Clapham Junction has about 15.1 million while Stratford has 14.7 million when combining entry/exit and interchanges.
It seems that Canada doesn’t know what to do with passenger rail transport. They are just doing something in the hope they’re doing the right thing.They seem oblivious about transport hubs/transfer hubs and the benefits it has for passengers/commuters and for the transport companies. Because more passengers means more revenues. There is hardly any interweaving of different transport modes. I don’t think my country is an excellent example of public transport but we’re doing just fine. Which means a lot, really a lot better than Canada is showing us. Most train stations have a hub function and can easily be reached by pedestrians, cyclists, cars, taxis and busses. In the bigger cities also by trams and metro/subway trains. Some stations are also connected by ferry or waterbus. The biggest example in my country is Amsterdam Central Station which has many ferry lines at the north entrance of the station.
These type of stations can give Toronto the flexibility that you see in London's mesh railnet, at a reduced cost. Add high frequency service and wow!
Absolutely, the redundancy and flexibility Is so key!
London has an advantage in that most of the infrastructure was created before cars came into play and amidst great excitement for the new technology which at the time was like the space race just with a lot more investment. You can see by the infrastructure the main obstacles they faced when building the network by the concentration of underground systems in the north where land was at a premium making it cheaper to tunnel and regional rail services in the south where land was cheap. Of course the best feature of the system is integration and your "mesh" metaphor is quite apt, very often there are multiple services available to get to the same place which helps keep people moving when a line or lines fail, but again trying to build that now in a large urban environment that hasn't planned around the concept is both difficult, complex and wildly expensive, crossrail will go north of £30 billion by the time it's complete and HS2 will go North of £100 billion(possibly could go to 50% on top of that judging by past state projects) due largely to the development costs of connecting city centres with brand new infrastructure.
Metro-North in New York maybe originated this concept with 125th St and Fordham. Lots of passengers change lines at 125th or Fordham, and the road specifically added Fordham (~1990) as a stop on the New Haven line to accommodate transfers without having to travel as far as Manhattan. Changing at 125th still saves 10-15 minutes of bumping along through the GCT tunnels, and transfers are really easy here. Many passengers with reverse commutes or jobs in upper Manhattan use 125th as an origin station too. Probably not the first shoulder stations if you count European systems, but maybe the first in North America?
New York also has a shoulder station at Secaucus junction it connects every NJT service
NJ really needs to encourage office development around Secaucus
Hankyu Railway in Osaka, Japan has a shoulder station where the 3 main lines converge on an adjacent station to the Umeda terminus called Juso
There are tons of videos of that "shoulder station". Amazing quantity of trains every second!
Venezia Mestre station in Venice is a perfect example of shoulder station. Located in the mainland part of the city, it is the most important railway junction and transfer hub of Northeastern Italy, where all the lines to/from Venice converge into the 4-track bridge across the lagoon to Venezia S. Lucia, the terminus in Venice proper. Of course, all passengers transfer in Mestre instead of crossing the bridge twice, which takes 10 minutes each way. Furthermore, all through trains between Rome/Naples or Milan and Udine or Trieste, in the region of Friuli-Venezia Giulia, reverse in Mestre.
Yes, Venice Mestre is a very good example. The intercity trains from Trieste to Milan all stop at Venice Mestre but they don't need to reverse there. I think that trains from Udine to Milan via Treviso also do not need to reverse their direction at Mestre. Trains that run between Trieste and Venice S. Lucia do need to reserve at Mestre. I think there is no direct curve to allow trains from Trieste to travel straight to S. Lucia without stopping and reversing at Mestre.
If you need a good example, how „shoulder-trips“ can be made convinent, Look at Zürich, Stettbach.
The S-Bahn from the two biggest regional Cities around Zürich, Winterthur and Uster, merge Line just before a 5 Kilometer long tunnel that crosses a mountain-rage and ends just at the lake-side next to downtown.
The Station Stettbach is at the begining of the Tunnel already underground and the timetable is laied, that the train towards downtown from one regional city arrives about 3 before the train from downtown to the other regional city departs. So not only you have a nearly perfectly placed junction station, but the time table is made to use it for trips not going downtown
As a local, I can inform viewers that Chicago's piss-poor regional rail networking on Metra isn't ENTIRELY its fault. Metra LEASES existing trackage from the freight rail companies (UPRR and BNSF), so they're kinda stuck using what's already there.
EDIT: the only trackage that Metra owns are the rails within their three hubs: Union Station and Ogilvie Transportation Center in Chicago and Aurora Transportation Center in, well, Aurora.
I didnt understood the existence of Santa Apolónia in lisbon with the Station of Oriente. But after this video I realized that Santa Apolónia acts as a Downtown station and Oriente acts as a shoulder to the northern line and the belt line, that will conect Sintra line and the southern lines by the 25 of April bridge.
I tougth it was kept by historic reasons or to turn trains, because it feels redundanct. that area is perfectly served by Rossio Station and the metro serves all train stations.
I’m happy it’s a model you can use too!
Ya, Reece did a fab job on explaining what initially I did not understand. Bravo!
The term shoulder stations and how you defined it immediately made me think of Munich. There are two major shoulder stations there, Pasing to the west and Munich East. These stations are very important as they are the end points of the S-Bahn trunk line where almost all suburban S-Bahn lines converge. Some lines diverge a couple of stations before Pasing, but the tunnel between Munich East and Central Station is shared by literally ALL S-Bahn lines. Which is actually why they're building a second S-Bahn tunnel right now, for express services between East, Central, and Laim (one station before Pasing) just to take some heat off of the existing tunnel which has been at capacity for years.
But to get back to Munich's shoulder stations, they are obviously HUGE transfer hubs for the S-Bahn system. But there's also a lot of regional and intercity trains that stop at both of them. Hell, Pasing even has a bunch of the high speed ICE trains stopping there, so people from the west side of the city don't necessarily have to go all the way to the city centre if they want to take the ICE.
For routes approaching Kyiv from the east we have Darnytsia station. It has a Metro station and it's on the circular commuter line (that I must try one day) and is an especially good example of a strategic shoulder station because unlike Kyiv Station, it's on the left bank of the Dnieper river. Both metros that cross the Dnieper take at least five minutes to do so so Darnytsia is ideally situated.
Very informative Reece. Thank-you for speaking up about what transit should be in Toronto. Cheers.
When you first mentioned the shoulder station, I thought of Back Bay Station in Boston which I think is a great example of one. Then you kept going talking about the junction stations and I realized all of the other junctions that could be better served in Boston. In particular, the Forest Hills station has several lines go through it but only one line stop at it.
I love that you showed Vauxhall station at 1:26 as that’s a perfect example. I always used this station as opposed to Waterloo, not just because the connection on the tube was easier, but also because when I was counter commuting it was always annoying having to wait to find out which platform my train was going from at the terminus station. As Vauxhall had fewer platforms the train always used the same platform, so there was never that annoying rush of everyone to the platform when it was announced, you just showed up and got on a train.
It doesn't have the huge transfer potential, but Harlem-125th Street on Metro-North is a good example of this. Its ridership has exploded and on every train I take into NYC I see many people get off there (and I use it sometimes myself). In fact sometimes it's faster to just get off there and transfer to the subway than to ride to Grand Central because some of the Park Ave tunnel is slow and the slog of people exiting at GCT eats up time too.
What we really need is more cities to build an S Bahn like Philly. Have like 5 stations serving the urban core and areas around it. Trains continue thru the cbd and go out to a different suburb. Because as you get closer to the urban core more lines converge, you get subway like frequency through the tunnel. Also if you wanna see an interesting example of different lines serving the same station after the lines already diverged, look up North Philadelphia Station
This speaks to me. I live in a Philly suburb, and to get to another suburb via public transit, the total trip is planned to be two hours long because I have to get to Philadelphia first. Whereas driving on a local road takes 45 minutes.
Amazing and interesting content as always, keep it up! In Melbourne, even though we do currently have "all our eggs in the same basket" through the city, we do have a few shoulder stations, namely Richmond and North Melbourne, for the south and north groups of lines respectively. They move some capacity away from the main city stations Flinders Street and Southern Cross, and also act as junction stations for transfers to other trains, as well as local trams and busses.
I think if Reece knew more about North Melbourne Station and Richmond Station and possibly also Caulfield Station and Footscray Station, he might be very impressed. Especially with North Melbourne and Richmond. Because not only can you change trains so that you can go the opposite direction around the loop that your train may go. But also it means that you can change from V/line(the railway that covers regional Cities to Melbourne) to what Reece would call Melbourne's Regional Lines ( what I call Metro Trains (, thereby being able to go around the loop which V/line does not use. North Melbourne you can go North, West and South West or South if you call Williamstown . Richmond you can go East, South East and South (if you call Frankston, South rather than South East). Caulfield and Footscray Stations are juntion stations.
He seems to dismiss and even overlook the excellent train and tram systems we have here in Melbourne. How can Toronto be better than Melbourne, they don't even have an electrified suburban system. Take a trip down here, use the system, then form a truthful opinion of our transport options.
@@harrygoldun5779Reece has actually been to Australia and made videos about the train systems in all the major cities. In general he's quite a fan of Australian transit. But he lives in Canada so he's obviously gonna focus more on that.
@@jdillon8360 I don't think he has. Judging by the Melbourne Metro video which was just a series of snippets from our local vloggers.
I think a deep look into Zurich would be very interesting as I think there are quite some similarities to Toronto like bi-level Regional trains and Trams. Zurich hasn’t built a Subway but I think you will really like how the S-Bahn Zurich is built up (don’t think that S-Bahn in Switzerland is the same as in Germany).
I completely agree with your assessment and it seems really weird they aren’t considering this in Toronto. As a German this seems completely obvious to me, as pretty much all somewhat relevant cities have these stations, often as a leftover of smaller cities being absorbed.
Munich-Pasing and Ostbahnhof, Augsburg-Hochzoll, Karlsruhe-Durlach or Berlin-Spandau are all great examples of this. Some of these even have regular long-distance service, because they are that busy.
Clapham Junction is a super shoulder - has connections out West towards Reading as well as South West, Southern, Thameslink and Gatwick Express. I have changed there so many times in my life.
I really wish you'd look at Perth's public transportation, although you've covered so much of the PT in Australia that you're an honorary Aussie. Perth really became a city with terrific PT, considering its very much a post-war city, suburban city.
I will eventually
Interestingly, during the pandemic Perth's rail ridership has been much greater than that of BART (~45m vs 25m pa; p-to-date ridership stats are available for both systems.) This is because of Perth's isolation, that they managed to keep COVID out and could still work in offices.
I just (re) watched this video, and saw this as an example of something that Perth does right, with stations like Claisebrook, Bayswater, and in the future, Cannington as well Though to me, it's common sense that back tracking is bad and should be avoided if possible.
Auckland, NZ has a similar situation with a 'junction station' in the form of Newmarket. Three of the four suburban rail lines converge on that station, which is directly south of the junction for the line to Swanson and Whangarei. Annoyingly the only way to transfer to the Eastern Line is to go right into the city centre, then you pretty much head straight back out of the station.
If someone hasn't said it already, Haymarket (Edinburgh) is an accidental shoulder station that works fantastically well. Acts as a quicker change to the airport tram vs Main Station as well as serving offices in Western Edinburgh
12:47 "most people are not transit experts... And they're not going to be advocating for trips they don't even know they could be making more conveniently "
This! Your frustration is right target!
Philadelphia has a whole line of shoulder stations, every regional rail train stops at a set of 3 stations
Yes similar to Berlins Stadtbahn!
Or a lot of other S-Bahn networks in Germany, such as Stuttgart, Munich, Leipzig or even the new tram tunnel in Karlsruhe
One example of using a shoulder station as a connection point with metro is the recent addition of Pont Cardinet station on line 14 extention to Saint Ouen, that connects with the St Lazare suburbian rail network line L at that station. It is a densely populated area (evenmore with the recent renovation and new buildings built there) that had no metro connection nearby. Having a connection there enhances the possibilities while freeing some capacity at St Lazare as well. Plans to get Line J of the suburbian rail to stop there were made but dropped because of costs, in the meantime, all trains from line L will stop there and not just some of them so the station will be served with a 3 min frequency in each way, plus de metro...
Indeed, sometimes these stations allow some passengers to be offloaded to a metro to take a different path to the center
Berlin is full of secondary hubs. The largest one of them is Ostkreuz. A majority of S-Bahn-lines stop there, you have a ton of regional rail going in different directions (Some of the lines don't even touch Berlin Central), a tram line is being built there and you have some buses there. Also the station is in the middle of a well-developed district with it's own culture and personality, while Berlin Central is sitting in the middle of a concrete wasteland.
I really like the term "Shoulder Station". Would stations further out (after some lines have branched off) be "Elbow Stations"?
Ok here’s my spin on this since i’m a huge regional rail/commuter rail fan . Shoulder stations? : well in NY we definitely have those : Jamaica , Hicksville, Newark and Hoboken . For junctions of course there’s Jamaica and then there’s Secaucus
One of the best exploration of concepts done on transforming transit!
Thanks so much Mike!
In the Toronto/Ontario context, I would like to hear your opinions on what Metrolinks should do after completing the current regional rail upgrade. I can't wait to see frequent, electic (Hopefully EMU) service throughout the GTHA. But I have not seen much about what can be done with the old diesel locomotives and cars (Although I did see a while back one used on the Polar Express to Moosonee). How should these be redeployed to extend service and connections to Toronto for other regions?
For example, a Niagara regional (pop:500k) system going from fort Erie (Buffalo) in a partial loop to Niagara could being many people into the system and add trips, while only using existing rail and trains. Likewise, existing rail and trains could add a huge amount of connectivity to Kitchener- Waterloo-Cambridge-Guelph (pop: 750k), a region that is really pushing for better tranist. This would mean more intracity trains in Kitchener and lines connecting the region, and potentially new service directly to Hamilton, still all with mainly existing infrastructure. And smaller Brandford (pop: 100k) is a fairly large population center that could be used as a through route for Direct Hamilton -London trains and Hamilton Commuter trains on the Hagersville Sub, and could be turned into a real growth hub, with commuters going to Hamilton, London, and industrial jobs at nanicoke, and growth as a shoulder station for commuters coming inward.
I haven't seen much on what Go should do next, with existing equipment, and there is a lot out there. Yes Toronto is THE place in Ontario for Transit, but there are other, rapidly growing, regions with extensive existing infrastructure that should not be forgotten.
Now I am not from Canada, so my idea might not make too much sense, but what about a Toronto-Kingston Regional GO service that would run alongside the existing Via services and take over some of their smaller stops? New stations (potentially request stops) could also be built to serve smaller towns like Newcastle (near Bowmanville) or Brighton (near Trenton). That way Via services would be sped up a bit and overall there would be more departures making travel more attractive.
I have lived in Berlin for most of my life and its surrounding state is quite sparsely populated by German standards, and yet trains still regularly (mostly every hour) serve the smaller towns inbetween the bigger centres. And there is almost no public transportation in these smaller towns and villages, yet people still ride the train. I therefore think that with a few small park & ride facilities at the smaller stations, this could also work in Canada, at least along this line.
Surprised North Toronto station wasn't mentioned? That could be VIA's station right there. Or alternate GO routes where 2nd or 3rd trains could divert from northern and north western routes to North Toronto instead of Union and allow commuters easier subway riding north or south and lessen the mayhem at Bloor/Yonge and/or Union.
I like shoulder stations, we have some here in Sydney on the suburban and regional networks (Hamilton and Newcastle Interchange and central and Redfern as was mentioned) and they are a good buffer for transfers since the shoulder stations can be used for most suburban transfers whereas central stations can be used for intercity services and other suburban transfers that don't pass the shoulder station
My personal example of a shoulder/junction station is Römisches Theater in Mainz. This station is where the S6 of the Rhine-Neckar S-Bahn (Mainz-Mannheim), S8 of the Rhine-Main S-Bahn (Wiesbaden-Frankfurt), which are timed in such a way that the train to Mainz comes in a couple minutes earlier than the train from Mainz, RB75 (Wiesbaden-Darmstadt), RE2/3 (Frankfurt-Saarbrücken/Koblenz) as well as the one or another singular regional train. It's also conveniently located right next to Altstadt so it's a very useful destination on its own.
Wiesbaden is a bit more difficult: There is Wiesbaden Ost which is served by S-Bahn only and is the point where S1, S8 and S9 converge but also is located in the middle of an industrial zone and Mainz-Kastell (confusing, I know) may also count as this since it's the last stop before the S1 and S9 diverge, is also served by the RB10 (which is limited stop between Wiesbaden and Frankfurt) and even features a major bus stop close by.
Bischofsheim - not far from both cities - may also count since this is served by non-S-Bahn trains (including RE2/3), is the last station before the RB75 diverges to Darmstadt and also is the station where the S9 converges with the S8.
As a bonus, all of these stations are located in the same fare zone.
Hi Reece! I enjoyed this video, as usual, and I'm continually impressed by your effort and dedication to your channel. It truly shows in the quality of your videos. I disagree with your point about Metra Electric being the only Metra line having shoulder stations. It has numerous, and a few of the stations allow transfers to the South Shore Line serving northwest Indiana.
The BNSF, the line with the highest ridership, has 3 shoulder stations within Chicago. For example, the Halsted station is a 3/4 mile south of the University of Illinois at Chicago which has an enrollment of over 34k students. This eliminates the need for students to go into Union and then travel back west via numerous busses or the Blue Line. I see potential for a shoulder station at Roosevelt Road located in the shared Amtrak and Metra yards.
The Union Pacific North and Union Pacific Northwest lines serve a junction station at Clybourn with a Blue Line station at Western (O'Hare Branch) and a Brown and Purple Line station at Armitage each a 1 mile west and east of the Clybourn station respectively. The second junction station in the city is Western Avenue that serves the Milwaukee District North, Milwaukee District West, and North Central Service.
All in all I completely agree that Metra has a long way to go to even touch comparable regional rail systems in Europe. I do see progress though. There is actually quite a comprehensive rail plan called the CREATE program that aims to untangle the freight and passenger operations. Unfortunately, the Metra STAR line proposal was abandoned although many Chicagoland residents would greatly appreciate such a service.
Keep doing what you're doing Reece! I love the channel and I love to talk transit! Cheers :)
Thanks so much! My implication on shoulder stations was really much more focused on the core of the network - that said I think without high frequency all day service such stations actually do have a lot less value since they can’t be used for as many transfers
They have stations that could be upgraded and receive more service to become shoulder stations, for sure. Another good location would be near the Near West Side and Fulton Market
São Paulo is interesting because as time went by, the shoulder stations became more and more the main stations for the regional rail, since they werent as restricted by space and capacity as the old (and historical) central one. Today they function almost as 2 terminus west (Barra Funda) and east (Brás) for some of the regional lines, while the old main one (Luz) sits in the middle, connected by 2 of the lines + the airport connection and 2 metro lines. Barra Funda and Brás are also connected by the same metro line, which terminates at BF, and links both to the actual downtown (though Luz was historically the central station, São Paulo's downtown is up on a hill, so the railroad passes through the flatlands surrounding it). There's also a third shoulder/junction station east that as been receiving a lot of development around it lately (Tatuapé), and with the undergoing expansion of the line 2 of the metro, there will probably be a fourth station further east (Penha). On the west side however its kinda trash, before the shoulder station, the lines stop at stations that are a few meters apart but are not connected.
Another thing is that when the intercity lines finally returns in the next century or two, they will end at Barra Funda and Brás, not Luz.
Also, Rio de Janeiro has more of a "Union" station, where all the lines terminate (Central do Brasil), and it has a few shoulder and junction stations, with a few of them being a stop to all the lines, like Maracanã
Clapham Junction and Stratford are great examples for London. I think there are others (albeit smaller ones) that could be considered "shoulder stations" like Finsbury Park for King's Cross or West Hampstead for St. Pancras. You could even say that London Bridge is a shoulder station for Charing Cross and Cannon Street. There's also a case for stations outside of London like Watford Junction, East Croydon (I know it's technically in London), and Stevenage which basically act as "shoulder stations" for London terminals on intercity journeys.
This video is really good, i must say. You talked about junction station. In Italy, in the city of Pisa there is a station, Pisa San Rossore, famous beacuse is the closest station to the Leaning Tower, that is built exactly on a junction, giving its particular triangular shape. This station gives the possibility to switch trains beetween the ones directed to the north and the ones directed to Lucca.
6:22 that's a familiar sight, is that an Italian regional train b roll?
anyway, shoulder station are great, some of the busiest trains I've ever been in where those going from "Pisa centrale" to "Pisa san rossore" as they served the university students coming in from nearby towns.
Indeed in some places the volume of transfers can make the shoulders busier then the center!
I'm pretty sure that Jamaica station on the Long Island Rail Road would qualify. I believe it's further out than some of the other examples provided, and it isn't used much for doubling back, but is a major transfer station otherwise.
I think Woodside would qualify better because it's closer to Manhattan and has the Port Washington Branch also, even if every other line there runs together all the way to Jamaica
I was going to say Harlem-125th for Metro North and Secaucus for NJT.
You are literally talking about Warsaw, Poland with 3 big stations on the mainline, and additionally another station with Metro access, AND two of the 3 big stations will get metro connections with the opening (2027-28) of the 3rd Metro line, AND ther already exists a ,,bypass'' line through northern suburbs that has a Metro commection.
Very exciting and yeah, this pattern is seen all over!
The greater Zürich area has the best public transport!
Just curious if Manila's North-South Commuter Railway, currently under construction, would fit the description for regional rail.
I'd say yes, though the network is very limited since it only has one single line. A great example of regional/suburban rail in Southeast Asia would be the Jakarta KRL, which is almost metro-like in terms of service. Bangkok and KL also have their own suburban rail systems, but none of them are utilized as heavily as Jakarta's. Just a quick comparison: Jakarta KRL system length has a combined length of around 418 km (on ~220 km of tracks) but transport more than a million passenger daily before the pandemic, while KL regional rail, with around 287 km of tracks, transport less than 90,000 people daily.
Some other good examples of shoulder stations in the UK:
Sandhills (on Merseyrail)
Liverpool South Parkway (Linking Merseyrail with the WCML & CLC)
Meadowhall (A junction stations near Sheffield)
Motherwell (South of Glasgow)
Haymarket (West of Edinburgh)
This makes me think of the problem with Sounder commuter rail’s lack of stations within Seattle besides King Street. While Sounder doesn’t have the multi-line connectivity of GO, through-running services with just a couple more stations within Seattle could immensely improve the connectivity and utility of that line and a fair chunk of the rest of the Puget Sound transportation network. Yet our current service model is still focused on suburb to downtown commutes that have changed immensely.
The Metra Electric (and my favorite line, the South Shore Line) actually has a few shoulder stations. 55th-56th-57th street station, Roosevelt, and Van Buren Street, with the Terminus being Millennium. As for Junction Stations, Kensington/115th on the Metra Electric, Clybourn on Metra's UP-N and UP-NW lines, and Technically Joliet on the Rock Island and Heritage Corridor lines.
Secaucus NJ and North Philadelphia are also great examples of this
New Haven has a shoulder station with State Street connecting Shoreline East, Hartford Line, New Haven Line, Northeast Regional, Shuttle, and Valley Flyer Trains without having to use New Haven Union
A possible junction that (I hope) they’ll explore in the near future is one between the Milton, Barrie & Kitchener Lines at Bloor.
This would of course also be accessible to people transferring from Line 2 on the TTC Subway, but could also enable smooth transfers between GO Lines. To make it make sense tho, regular all-day service needs to be introduced on all the lines, including the Milton Line. It’s the first spot south of the junction of all 3 lines (yes, I realize that the Barrie Line is still separate at this point).
A sheltered pedestrian walkway with a fast people mover like at an airport could provide connections between the Barrie Line corridor near Symington & the Milton & Kitchener/UP Lines near Dundas West. It could also continue on to Lansdowne Station to provide additional connectivity to the TTC. But at a minimum should be connected to Dundas West station so folks don’t need to go outside til they board their train.
I think this could be the major “west end” shoulder station in Toronto, rather than Liberty, as it allows transfers earlier in the journey as opposed to at King-Liberty, riders wouldn’t have to ride their respective line south to transfer and head back north again. It would make a nice juxtaposition with East Harbour. It just needs a new proper name as “Bloor” is too confusing.
You should be employed by Metrolinx! Seriously good content in this video.
In Warsaw, without the huge construction on Warsaw West, there are two shoulder station, Warsaw West and Warsaw East, which are linked with a 4-track line stopping at Warsaw Central (long-distance services) and Warsaw City-Center (W-wa Śródmieście, local services). People who are going between different Polish cities can change at either of these stations, not using Warsaw Central, which is used by most people going out of Warsaw. In addition to that the local line stops close to the center twice more (Powiśle and Ochota). I think it's a really good setup, but when sth breaks on either W-wa East or West it's chaos everywhere.
London has a couple shoulder stations
Stratford-GEML(greater anglia x overground x c2c(weekends) x underground)
Clapham junction-SWML(overground x southern x southwestern)
Finsbury Park-ECML(Thameslink x great northern)
London Bridge-SEML/SML(Gatwick express x thameslink x southern x southeastern x underground)
Watford junction-WCML(avanti WC x LNWR x overground x southern)
There's one mistake though the entire video re: the Stouffville line... no trips stop at either Scarborough OR Danforth, meaning, if you want to go from Kennedy to Rough Hill by go, you have to take an extra 30 minutes each way.
Also, the worst part about the Stouffville line not stopping between Union and Kennedy is that facillities already exist to support stops, and it's not significantly slower either.
Would you say that Philly has a good amount of Shoulder stations? We have three large stations in the main business areas of Center City and University City, and then there’s North Broad and Temple University on the lines built by the Reading
I will appreciate Amsterdam Sloterdijk more now I know about shoulder stations. Thanks for the great video and information!
Just an alert to the creator - at 3:26 all the audio ends up going to one side, really weird on headphones. It comes back after the segment. Just in case it's not a known issue for future videos
haha i had thought he just didn't put in the ad audio! only had my right headphone in
Pasila (Helsinki, Finland) is a really good shoulder station. It would great if they build a second metro line.
Wow. It must be really frustrating for you.
I even found it frustrating to commute from one line to another within Jakarta commuter rail system even though it has "loop line" with 5 junction stations.
Are you sure it is a regional rail and not a torture device?
Yep, it's honestly frustrating to experience how bad regional rail systems are in many North American cities (especially in the US). Like, they already have a lot of advantages in terms of infrastructure, but the service are generally underwhelming, especially with their infrequent schedules (I've been stuck at a suburb station in the winter once after missing an evening train, and it was not a pleasing experience). Jakarta, meanwhile, has inadequate infrastructure (for a city of its size) but make use of the existing network quite efficiently, I'd say.
Clapham J is great. But it works as a cross rather than a junction. Brighton line commuters can painlessly switch to SW services to Waterloo, and SW commuters can switch to Victoria services. This gives greater choice in how commuters enter central London. Also note there is a fare incentive for using Vauxhall. Vauxhall is in zone 2, and SW commuters heading to Westminster area (i.e. lots and lots of civil servants) can save £££ a year if they get off at Vauxhall and walk.
I have to kind of praise New Jersey Transit here. I live next to the Morristown line, and NJT does really good cross platform transfers at Newark Broad St station and Summit station between the three lines, in all directions. On weekends at least.
Germany also has some good example in berlin in north south direction there are Südkreuz and Gesundbrunnen wich are only a few km from the main station but still even ice gonna call on all of them because these are the best places to interchange because they serve the ringbahn
Building transit only costs so much because the governments just pay private companies to build it and they charge massive amounts and take as long as possible to finish construction so they can milk the taxpayers as much as they can. Governments should have their own construction workers and equipment so they can build it themselves for a fraction of the cost.
In Berlin, Germany, there's a shoulder station north of the Main station (Berlin Hauptbahnhof) called Gesundbrunnen. It's got many platforms and integrates with the metro (S-Bahn).
It allows transfers from the Airport Express onto north-bound Intercity trains without going into Berlin City Centre.
It's that simple.
You might call me crazy, but there is a simple solution to create a good network of shoulder and junction stations which help to reliefe the high utilization of the inner network: Its a ring/circle line! Greetings from Berlin.
They've been talking about trying that in London since the 70s, so at the usual rate of progressive we can expect it delivered about a week before the asteroid hits the Earth in a thousand years or so, and it'll still come in late and over budget.
Yep! Jakarta also has such a loop line. Well, the route in service did not form a complete loop, but it connects to practically any other lines, and its incredibly useful, being the second busiest in the whole network.
When it comes to regional rail in Montreal, I'd like to see the inevitable REM replacement to the Mont-Saint-Hilaire line branch off between Saint-Lambert and Gare Longueil-Saint-Hubert along the old line that connects to Grandby that's now a bike path. There's more then enough demand for one or two stations in Longueil before the 30, plus stops at Chambly (connecting to the inevitable REM main line extension to there), Richelieu, Marievile, Rougemont, Saint-Cesaire, then finally Granby. This line would connect a bunch of the exoburbs to the network as well as connecting one of Montreal's largest exoburbs directly to downtown, and potentially give another chain of exoburbs between Montreal and a major exoburb if the Mont-Saint-Hilaire line was extended to Saint-Hyacinthe, and for both of these lines to be able to transfer before having to cross the river to downtown. Would certainly be convenient for me since I have family in St-Bruno and would definitely only drive to Granby and take a train to Saint-Lambert to transfer there if that was an option.
Last time I was in Toronto, I took the Stouffville Line from Union Station to visit the Pacific Mall. I was very rushed because the mall opened at 11 AM (although some businesses opened later) and the last train back was at 3:15 PM. I had trouble understanding this. If it is a commuter line, why does it not run during traditional commuter hours?
Great video! We're lucky to have Secaucus and Jamaica in NY. Also Harlem-125 - that’s a pretty effective shoulder station right?
You are the best. And the Berlin S-Bahn in the background is totally nice😁
Boston, or the MBTA has some sort of shoulder stations in back bay, ruggles,forest hills, and malden center. They also have some stations to spread out development, such as boston landing, which the place the station serves is really nice actually
I like how you call it “suburban rail” and not “commuter rail”. Reframing it away from “bringing commuters to the CBD” to “Allowing people to travel around the region”
Would Vendome in Montreal be considered a shoulder station? Or does the lower frequency in trains in MTL vs. Toronto make it not one?
It's a pleasant surprise to see Vauxhall get a mention. It's always been a bit of a poor cousin to Waterloo and Clapham, but it does get a lot of traffic, helped by being on the Victoria Line. It'll be interesting to see how much busier it gets as the Nine Elms development grows. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get some upgrades. Clapham is great, but it really needs to get on the Tube map. Hopefully they'll extend the Northern Line there before long (if TFL can sort out it's financial problems).
I'm surprised you mentioned Sunny Side but didn't mention Harlem 125th street, which is one of the most important stops on Metro North. (Speaking of which Metro North video when?)
I was looking to talk about a future station, a MNRR video will come but not so soon after the subway
Very interesting video! I’m curious about what your opinion is on the recently announced plan in Montréal to build the REM East on an existing rail right of way on Souligny. Some people are upset about the fact that there will no longer be a connection at Honoré-Beaugrand on the green line. I think this is certainly a downside, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal because there will still be other connections to the metro and people who want to get to Honoré-Beaugrand from further east could still take a bus there. Given the opposition to building an elevated metro on Sherbrooke East, I think this is an acceptable compromise. Unfortunately, some people are still opposed to building the REM even on the Souligny railway right-of-way despite the fact that it already acts as a divider in the neighbourhood. I get the sense that here in Montréal, a lot people’s opposition to building elevated metro lines comes from the fact that our metro is entirely underground, so people aren’t so familiar with what elevated metros are actually like. They assume that it’ll have a similar effect to the elevated highways that we have, such as the Autoroute Métropolitaine (A-40), which are indeed very disruptive to the urban environment.
I agree. Spending money for a brand new platform, and then no trains stop there for key transfers. That's a real waste of taxpayer money. It's mismanagement like this that pushes people not to vote for more transit. Speed is not the only thing that makes a railroad great. Frequency and service connections are quite important as well.
1:25 clapham junction is also a good example
Everyone: wow what a fantastic video
Me: HOLY MOLY THERE IS MY TRAIN FROM TURIN IN ITALY OH MY GOSH IN ONE OF THE VARIOUS CLIPS
Since you announced a Vienna transit video in the last one, you will love Wien Meidling.
I do love it!
So the main thrust of your video is that shoulder and Junction stations are major parts of all train networks, outside North America!
Enjoyed your latest video thanks for sharing.
Vauxhall station (Waterloo lines and Victoria Line) which you rightly see as a shoulder station is the station for the head office of the British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6). Its striking building faces the Thames and features now in many photos. But has no name at the entrance. If you want to see Britain's spies travelling to and from work they are passing through Vauxhall every day.
Would you consider doing a deep dive video on Toronto’s rolling stock (TTC + GO)?
Your voice track, on your sponsor spot, is coming through the left channel only. There is audible background music on the right channel, and the voice channel comes through both sides immediately before and after the spot.
You might want to remix your spot before your next video.
Hey would you be interested in talking about the proposed Highway 413 in Ontario. I'd be interested to hear your take on the highway to see if there are any redeeming qualities to the highway. At the very least I think this is an important project for Ontario's future and deserves a spotlight.
Lmao, never expected a TH-cam video featuring my residence 6:44
Great Video!
The best is a ring of local transit with a cross of regional transit like Berlin has. Wherever you live. In the center, north, south, west or east there is a regional / ic hub. And no i am not biased as a berliner. 😎🤪 But you definitely have the better view with that lake skyline.
I love your videos!
Reese, Why don't you have somone on you channel from Metrolinx and just ask them about your proposed shoulder stations? They seem like such obvious and relatively inexpensive addtions to the GO expansion I'd be curious to hear what their respose would be. By doing so, you would also bring the issue top of mind for them.
Instead of building a redundant BRT along HWY 407 ETR, they should build a GO Train line instead. This will be adequate for the amount of people who could potentially use such a line. Plus, something like this would probably be owned by Metrolinx making it possible to have crazy frequent frequencies. Not to mention you’d have an incredibly encompassing circumferential line that could easy a lot of the strain on the already burdened Line 1.