I personally have 0 interest in Finspan. I liked Wyrmspan, I think it's a better game than Wingspan, but it's way too similar to Wingspan for me to own both. However I don't know why people are so up in arms over this. Jamie seems to get a tremendous amount of backlash whenever he does anything and it's completely undeserved. And its like you said, if you aren't interested just ignore it.
People love saying “who asked for this?!?” But honestly it’s the market, the market says it sells so they’re going to release it. That’s who asked for it.
As mentioned elsewhere, commentors should also remember that there are humans behind these games. Connie effectively spent a year of her life working a second job to design and develop Wyrmspan, to make it both familiar and unique. It's fair to like or not like the game, but it's not a reskin and there are easier and more reliable ways to "grab cash". And on the other side of things, Elizabeth Hargrave has posted about dealing with her father in hospice care with cancer - so it's painful, in addition to incorrect, when people complain that Wyrmspan and Finspan are delaying the Wingspan expansion they want.
I have so much respect for Jamey who has done so much for the hobby. He is overly transparent and has helped progress things that are important to me like inclusion and sustainability.
One the things that people are unaware of that are complaining about Finspan is that it was being being worked on at the same time as Wyrmspan, but Finspan needed more work before being ready. Since Finspan came out a year later, the perception is that Finspan was conceived after Wyrmspan. It takes longer than people realize for a game to go from an initial concept to a published product.
I am all for more wingspan games. Wingspan was able to attract a whole group of new people into playing at the very least their game. Wyrmspan was for the majority of the board gamers with more to it and a theme that is more board game traditional. Finspan is perfect for a whole new group of people. And when they do 5 more it will give SM games the ability to have a nice strong and steady income and let them do other games they won’t be as profitable but more of a passion project. Just like Ticket to Ride or similar games, there will be some people that will own every single game and it will be their ultimate where most people will pick the one or two games they are interested in and that’s it. This is a great product that’s getting spammed for a great company. We should celebrate that.
People keep bringing up other franchises and equivocating them. First of all, just because other publishers do this doesn't mean we can't criticize SM for doing it. That's a logical fallacy. Second, "Finspan" is a dumb name and is an obvious-yet-lame attempt to capitalize on the "span" monicker. Fish aren't measured in spans; birds are. Dragons aren't measured in spans because they're not birds and also fictional. "Finspan" and "Wyrmspan" are dumb names and make no sense. THAT is what makes it an obvious cash grab...why do I have to keep pointing this out? I don't hope the game fails, but let people call a spade a spade. It will succeed because "muh Stonemaier game," which is cool with me, but let's not resort to ignoring how much "Finspan" is a complete cash grab based on the "span" thing. Good thing they didn't call it "Seaspan" or the memes would be 100x worse. LOL
@@TateRoberts_007 I think folks are pointing out how it seems weird how Stonemaier gets flack for releasing games as part of a series of games whereas other games/publishers seemingly do not. Perhaps, it has more to do with the names of the games more than anything. Wyrmspan is not a great name, nor is Finspan. I feel like they could have simply given them different names like "World of Dragons" or "Fish in the Sea" or whatever, and then just gave each the subtitle "A World of Wingspan Game".
@@ColonelKurtz yep that’s exactly what my point was 😄 The names are the issue. But also, SM’s games have all been relatively mid for a while. Make a good game!
I'm always interested in games that make learning more accessible. Ticket to Ride's geography, Photosynthesis' plant science, Scoville's horticulture ... if Finspan can help teach my kids to recognize different kinds of fish, I'm not mad about putting it right next to Wingspan on the shelf.
Thanks for the video! Great positive message at the end too. Also, I like Wingspan and enjoy Wyrmspan even more and am curious to learn more about Finspan.
Why does SM get all the flack for the -span games? There are a ton of games that do the same damn thing and get no flack whatsoever. Great Western Trail Azul Unmatched Horrified Etc. I love that you took this route. It seems like others get wide praise.
We have one Ticket To Ride and one Pandemic at home. No need for there to be so many others but the company knows they'll sell and make money - that's the purpose of a business at the end of the day, not to create what is needed or even what makes sense, but what makes money. New editions with tiny tweaks "keep the puppy frisky" to use the marketing jargon.
@@Ian-R-Wilz I really think it's the goofy titles which illicit the initial negative reaction. I really think they should have named them differently and given them a subtitle "A World of Wingspan game".
@@GoodEggGuy we have almost every TtR but it’s one of the games that brought us into the hobby and we started collecting them before. They all play a little different which makes it fun.
@@Ian-R-WilzAny suggestion that these games are cash grabs is unfounded. They are intentionally designed to incorporate similar structure, concepts, and mechanisms. But, they are fully designed and developed from the ground up. They incorporate similar ideas of placing animal/creature cards and producing eggs, tucking cards(prey/consume), and so on...but are distinguishable in so many other ways. They are designed for those who like Wingspan or Wyrmspan or Finspan and who want a different game but with a familiar FEEL or a different theme. A "cash grab" would insinuate that very little work is done to produce a product, yet it's sold at a premium. This is so obviously not the case here. The World of Wingspan games all share a similar weight and similar mechanisms, but each stand on their own. I don't feel like "cash grabs" really exist much in board gaming. A publisher creates the game because they are aware of players' feedback: A) I really like that exact game, but how about different THEMED ART? We see typically see this in more abstract style games and when another publisher picks up the rights (Air, Land, and Sea; Hanamikoji; Patchwork; Battleline) B) I really like that game, now can I have MORE STUFF for it? (Most expansions for a lot of games) C) I really like that game and its theme, but can I get a SMALLER/SIMPLER VERSION of it? (...the card/dice game, Whitehall Mystery, Twilight Struggle: Red Sea) D) I really like that game- its concepts, mechanisms, and complexity. Can I get something LIKE IT BUT DIFFERENT? (North Sea/South Tigris/West Kingdom, Wingspan, Pandemic system) I think what people really are upset by but don't realize it is the way they have labeled these games as being part of the Wingspan "brand". The names are a little silly, and I don't quite like them. I initially thought that it would be best if they each had their own unique/distinct name and simply had a subtitle "A World of Wingspan game". However, people might think the games are somehow compatible/interchangable. So, I don't know. Maybe the titles of the games as they are- as goofy as they sound- are the best answer.
I will die on this hill. I do not care for Wyrmspan as a theme. I so desperately wanted them to make this game instead (and i predicted the name too!). I want a bug-span too, eventually. I love nature themes! And the art is always gorgeous. Wingspan brought me into the hobby. It was my gateway. These days I'm perfectly happy playing both heavy euros and dice-chuckers, but I will ALWAYS have a soft spot for Wingspan.
Excited for Finspan. I have all Wings and never been interested in Wyrms. If he makes another about Worms, that'll be another question, I am probably be on board with all REAL animals is what I like to say. I agree with your analysis on negative reactions completely though.
I have a problem with publishers just putting out more content in a predatory nature like CMOM does with Zombicide and United (even though I have a lot of United) where they do these huge crowdfunding campaigns and use crowdfunding exclusives up the wazzu to channel your fomo and get you to drop $400+ on a campaign. However, that is not what Stonemaier is doing. They're just releasing games that you can get now or you can wait and get later. Sure, there is a discount for buying it right now but then it'll go into retail at a standard, normal price.
Honestly, I think it's a minority of people that are complaining here. But minorities tend to have loud voices. Somebody wishing though for it to fail is a little bit ridiculous.
It reminds me of the attitude in other nerd properties I've seen in comics and anime fandom and how it was cool when almost nobody did the thing but now that it's become "mainstream" the thing that I loved is no longer cool and must be hated on in order for me to feel cool and special again. I've always found this attitude and trend in opinion to be completely asinine. If this iteration isn't for you, move along and let other people enjoy. We're not obligated to buy it. Great video Alex, I've always appreciated how you're willing to tackle topics like this when they pop up.
Completely agree. I remember when Avatar came out, the amount of people who felt it was cool to not like or not watch Avatar... Let people enjoy the thing. It's okay.
Exactly. For some reason, the themes seem a bit more ridiculous, but I don't even know why. When you think about it for a bit, this isn't anything weird. Tickets to ride came to my mind first and you listed so many.
I think the x-span games do something that most other games don't do. They get people into the hobby by appealing to a particular non-gaming interest. I got Wingspan because I am really into birding. Every time I play Wingspan I name all of the birds without looking at the text on the card. It makes me happy to play a game with a subject I love - and that introduction got me into gaming and I now consider myself a gamer. I understand that Wyrmspan is a more refined, complex game geared toward more advanced gamers. I, however, won't purchase that game. I have absolutely no interest in made up dragons. (No disrespect to anyone who does prefers dragons. We are all different and that is what makes the world an interesting place in which to live.). So for me, as a person who loves to snorkel and SCUBA even more than I like birding - a person who can name most of the fish in the Caribbean sea, you had best believe I am all in for Finspan. I will now be able to name all the fish on the cards as I play them. More happiness!! Life is too short to complain about a game being published. If it doesn't interest you just don't buy it - leave it for those who are interested. As my daughter would say, "Don't yuck my yums!" (And, yes, I did watch the whole video and I understand Alex is not "yucking my yums." I'm just confounded why many others are making such a big deal about this.)
I don't blame them for releasing a new game in a successful line, but the timing is an interesting choice. I'm probably not going to buy it cause I had issues with Wingspan that were fixed in Wyrmspan, and it is my preferred theme of the three. I just hope that Wyrmspan doesn't get lost in the middle with the close release of the next game. I was hoping for a small Wyrmspan expansion with more unique Dragon Guilds.
Because Stonemaier has a weekly livecast, it’s easy to check that, since the launch of Wingspan, there have always been divided opinions. Some people express interest in the game but feel it’s not for them because it features birds, has too much randomness, or is lighter than their usual preferences. At the same time, others find Wingspan appealing but consider it slightly too complex or not suitable for playing with younger children. I think is only natural for a publisher to try to do something for these people. Btw, the one-year gap between the games happened because they started development around the same time but simplifying a game turned out to be more challenging than making a game more complex.
I don't think you can include games like Final Girl, Unmatched, or Dice Throne because it's a system where every new addition allows players to mix and match the new content with the previous content. In terms of Finspan, I think it comes down to a few things: 1.) Many people never thought that Wingspan was going to get or needed a new addition, which is why Wyrmspan was met with such hesitancy. People ended up liking Wyrmspan because they liked the new mechanisms and of course...DRAGONS! However, Finspan follows up dragons with...fish and supposedly Finspan is meant to be less complex than even Wingspan, which to players of Wyrmspan seems like a step backward. 2.) Not enough time was allowed for Wyrmspan to marinate with game hobbyists before ANOTHER version was announced to come out. 3.) A lot of gamers probably think that by focusing too much on coming out with more versions of one particular game rather than more original projects, the board game space is going to go the way of the Hollywood movie space, not a lot of good stuff to choose from. Finspan might just be the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back. I'm not saying that I agree completely or even in part with each of these reasons, but they seem to be the most prevalent factors to me.
I think all your points are valid, but I think the first two still come down to either buy it or don't, there's no need to hate. The third point is what you get into a more interesting conversation as to whether there's a good reason for pushback. Personally, I think that the quantity of reprinted versions versus innovation means that we're not in any danger of a lack of innovation
1. A lot of people like fish. Fishing is a sport, and people have careers in fish. 2. I'd say the majority of people who are complaining play most of their games less than 5 times 3. Jamey isn't designing this game, and even if he was, people can do more things than 1 at a time
Nah, love I Stonemaier and Jamey is a gem of a human. And while Wingspan is popular, I was never going to buy a bird game. I do own Wyrmspan. Let them cater to the different tastes of the different players. Agree with Alex, if you’re done with the ‘Span games, don’t buy them. Easy
On the timing, from what ive seen (like your interview with Jamey), it seems that its not just them starting to do different versions and they're so close to each other, it seems like this was a choice to do two different versions of Wingspan, one heavier and one lighter, and they just put them out a year apart. Its not that we can expect them every year, its just that they are two sides (of two) of an idea and they decided to put out both.
I don't get it either! I mean, we now live in a world full of redos. We barely even have new TV shows or movies. They just do remakes and bring back old shows. Why would board games be any different? At least all the companies aren't just repackaging old games all the time. Why do Americans have to get mad about everything these days? We can't just not have an opinion. I don't agree with everything Jamie says, does, believes, etc. But who gives a rip? Why do people think we all need to see eye to eye on every single little thing now? He is free to live his life, create whatever games he wants to create and pour his money into. We as buyers get to decide if it's worth it to us to give him money for what he produces. That's it. Who cares !?
@@siejaiz Pan as a prefix word, meaning all-inclusive, and Fin being the thing(s) most notebaly fish have, so "including all fish" could be another way reading the new title.
Thanks for this, Alex. You tempered the sarcasm just enough to avoid being heavy handed. 😉 And it was actually informative and a good reminder about iterations of games I enjoy that I have not played and expansions I have not experienced.
I made it into a Boardgameco video?? Well sort of, I made Flynn’s Pan 😆. I don’t know why it’s getting flak, other than the name is pretty bad. A follow up game about fish seems like a logical sequel to a game about birds
Many thanks for this video, I couldn’t agree more!!! I wish Stonemaier all the best. They now have three different versions of Wingspan for different player types. I got Wyrmspan and am very happy with it. I will skip Finspan mainly because I prefer more complex games and Wyrmspan is hence best suited for me but I hope that Finspan will be a success so that Stonemaier can subsidise more innovative games in the future.
I just watched Jamie do a run through of a couple of turns in Finspan, and it's actually a VERY different games. It's not a reskin with a few new rules.
I felt that way ("I'll buy it but hope you don't make it annoyance") with the expansion to the 7th Citadel. We waited forever for the crowdfunding campaign to fulfill and literally DURING fulfillment before everyone even had their games, they announced a new expansion that went to crowdfunding shortly after, I of course backed it but was seriously annoyed and felt it was definitely a case of too much too soon and insulting to everyone that hadn't even gotten their games yet and that they had us wait 3 years to finish the main game.
Excellent! I was about to thumbs down after 2 minutes, because I didn’t realize you were restating what others had said. Then you Alex’d the crap out of this topic! 😅. All I can say is, nailed it 👊🏼. The two examples I thought of were United series (which you covered) - talk about too much too fast - $600! The other is Dune: Imperium, which released in 2020! And there are how many expansions and new edition?! I know we say evergreen, but the business term is ‘Cash cow’. And businesses that want to experiment and produce new products rely on their Cash cows to sustain them. “Merchandizing…where the real money…is made…Space Balls the Coloring Book…Space Balls the lunchbox…Space Balls the Flame Thrower - the kids love this one.” - Yogurt
It’s great that consumers have a choice and these games do not require you to have played the previous one in the Wingspan series. Great for consumers who may like just one or two of them and just a bonus for the fans that want all of them.
From my first game of Wingspan I thought it would be so easy to reskin it to literally anything. Those eggs could easily be footballs and you can skin the box to whatever team you want. I will say Pokespan would be a surefire hit.
Also, what about the “Golem Edition” games from that series (I forget what it was called)? That was actually cool, because you could put all of them together (they each had different mechanisms) and play a composite game with each of them - something which you wouldn’t have gotten without having all of them! Yet, that series did not get flack, either!
Jamey definitely serves strong support from the community. The only problem I have with him is that he hasn’t designed any great dungeon crawlers because it’s not his jam. However, Vantage has me very intrigued
I think most of the frustration over Finspan comes from many people in the hobby having the "opportunity" to watch Wingspan go from a new/novel concept of a game system only to watch it grow into a "family" of spin-offs with shared DNA. I'd imagine this is the same feeling that people had when they watched Dominion's version of deck-building go from a novel concept to a staple mechanic. I appreciate you highlighting that this is not anything new. Also there's a "Profit motive" (aka capitalism) angle to this that revolves around what will actually sell. The reason that we see games like Catan, Ticket to Ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne and other such evergreen games at many big box stores is because they can sell reasonably well there. The reason that we see the billions of versions/modules of Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) at our Friendly Local Game store is b/c that's where it will sell. Finally, I do think some of the complaints are due to the games being spin-offs rather than expansions. I disagree with the complaints as a whole, but I can see the frustration that a WingSpan fan would have if they've purchased ALL of Wingspan only to find out that it's not compatible with the new hottness that is Wyrmspan (or Finspan).
There is probably an effect with the number of games in a series too. For example, I feel like people may care less if a new zombicide gets released because people expect it at this point. The more games in a series, the less upset people will get for each new addition
19:57 I wonder how many more mechanisms they can have for one game system… Theme is one thing, but one reason I personally think some people are upset is because they don’t see the potential for so many gameplay variations of the system, so they say ‘Oh, another -span game. How many can you have?’ Just my 2 cents.
Personally, as I love diving, I am so happy Finspan will be released. It will be a day one buy, even if the game might be a bit simple and I already have Wingspan.
Stonemaier is such a distinct brand that releases (somewhat) personally-curated designs only once or twice a year. So, I think a lot of folks would just prefer Stonemaier to release completely new and uniquely themed games- ones that don't share ANY similarities to existing products or IPs. Expansions get a pass because they just give folks more for games that already exist. Would I prefer Stonemaier to release a new game with a wholly unique IP and a completely unreleated/distinct set of mechanisms? Probably. Will I really enjoy Finspan enough to buy the game? Most likely.
I honestly don't understand why folks are so up in arms about this - but folks get all excited for new West Kingdon / North Sea / South Tigris games...?
There's lots of people that will love Finspan. I told my wife about it and she was super excited. I on the other hand, am quite happy with Wyrmspan. I will probably wait and see if the gameplay in Finspan is significantly better. Like anything, there's diminishing returns. I think the next game probably says more about how many copies of Wingspan/Wyrmspan were sold. Stonemaier probably has an idea of how many Finspan they will sell based on the success of the other games + diminishing returns. Interestingly, the game for me that seemed to really jump the shark was Dune Imperium:Uprising. However, it succeeded wildly because of how good it was in streamlining and balancing the original. I was skeptical on Uprising, but it's just better and so I don't really care? I think the same will be true of Finspan if it's better. On a funny note, I did just finally order Everdell: Farshore and I'm hoping like you said that it is basically a Dune Imperium: Uprising situation. More options is fine. With most of the lines you mentioned, I usually end up with my favorite 1-2 of each line. Except for Dune: Imperium, Spirit Island, Vindication/Vestige, Terraforming Mars, Aeon's End, C:DMD, and Nemesis. There's just some where I want all the things!
And, to be fair, they aren't really using the same "system". They're different games. It's more akin to raiders/wayfarers/architects/explorers/viscounts/paladins/shipwrights/scholars/inventors/plumbers of the north sea/west kingdom/south tigris/east L.A.
I 100% support Jamey and hope this game does well, as I would for any publisher. That said, I must admit I thought this was supposed to be a joke when I saw this and didn’t think it was real. My gut reaction was “who wants this?” I think there are two main issues and you touch on the first: people can’t come to terms with not having it all. The second issue is this: in our society, it feels like every good tv show or book or movie has to have 10 spinoff series, branch out into other areas, and be diluted to the point where no one enjoys it anymore. I feel like this is a lot of what is behind marvel fatigue. It is why people complain that Hollywood has no new ideas and is just doing remake after remake. When gladiator 2 trailer came out, even though it was probably 20 years after the 1st, I just sort of rolled my eyes and couldn’t stand the thought of another remake. What are your thoughts on people reacting to this due to remake fatigue Alex? I do think it’s interesting this particular game is getting pushback. I don’t think it’s entirely unique to finspan, but maybe pronounced here. I can remember people getting cranky at Gloomhaven 2nd edition. I think Awaken Relams avoided this with nemesis by promising “it would be the last”. I think if Jamey made that statement, most of these complaints would have not manifested.
I do not see the problem here... this year there will be a third Avatar-movie and though it will be the same movie in another setting (fire-smurfs this time) people will pay to see it... so why is a third Span-game such a tragedy? It is just a trilogy like those Garfieldians keep producing. I love Wingspan, still play it a lot, I love Wyrmspan, different enough to be a completely different experience, and I look forward to Finspan because I know it will be different and I will get to know a lot more about fish through what will no doubt be perfectly designed cards. And as long as they can change the gameplay enough I want more Span-games... Spiderspan would be a great one.
I'm happy with another "span", also because it has differences, I prefer that than only reskins. BTW, we have also Azul family with 5 games Century with a trilogy doubled by reskin and 1 big box
Played Wingspan and all expansions so far, haven't had a chance yet to play Wyrmspan. May try this new one if would ever gets chance to I like that a Kickstarter for a new Everdell was just announced
Now, hold on a minute...if we encourage this pattern and more and more ****span games are created, eventually there will be enough versions of span-games for Stonemaier to create Span-gamespan and the whole of reality will collapse in on itself.
I'm glad someone made a video about this! I felt somehow disappointed at the time when Wyrmspan was announced. Wingspan could very well be my favorite board game, but I've always been a strong proponent of taking chances on new, original IP's/ideas instead of milking a successful thing dry (e.g. two TV shows off the top of my head: The Office, Stranger Things). I felt like, "Oh, there's one less potential new and original Stonemaier game to discover this year." Granted, new and original ideas are not guaranteed to be commercially successful, so I understand why the publisher is going this route. Wingspan was that rare lightning in a bottle that only comes around every once in a while. But I still lament each new spin-off, which only waters down what made the original title so special.
Thank you for being reasonable and putting this out. The deluge of memes and hatred about the game are intensely draining to have to wade through. There are so, so many game series that don’t take this heat (four core Azuls and then multiple spin off versions of the first one and nobody has said anything). Ever since I knew about Wyrmspan I’d heard there were only going to be the three versions. And I had multiple people reach out to me to see what I knew because they were so excited about it, which is awesome. The only point I’ll disagree with is the mention of Final Girl and o my slightly. I think season one was by far the weaker of the two, season two was a series of excellent design experiences on display, and after season three I’m going to be out just due to how much content there already is. But if they want to keep going, then I support that too. A game like --span is important to the hobby because of how much enjoyment it brings to people and the amount of dollars it can bring in for publishers, especially smaller ones. Those games succeeding keeps the company alive. It gives more designers more avenues to work through and then take their experience and share it with other publishers and designers. Success in this very small industry of ours only breeds more innovation and success.
I totally forgot about Azul, Good catch. And yeah, I don't have a problem with memes that are just for the sake of the meme, but it definitely did feel that this game was getting a lot of hate that others don't.
Continue to hit the nail on the head. Great video Alex! I love to support SM and Jamey. Great dude, and really gives back to the game community. The meme's might be "funny" to the general public, but I'd bet that they hit a little close to home for Jamey and his team. Luckily, their games sell well, and rightfully so.
So here is my take, i would say that multiple spans with different themes is fine, each of those themes could encourage someone in to buying in to a new hobby. So for me, birds?, yeah alright, dragons? No, fish?, yes i really like fish and aquatic beasts so depending on how it ends up playing id probably sell wingspan and get finspan. I think multiple themes of almost the same game is doing this hoby a service.
How different are the games? That’s usually my evaluation on “cash-grab” versus not. I think Farshore is 90% Everdell, at a high price point. The “span” line feels different to me, different designers, development, etc.
I never played Wingspan. But another series with many expansions (a game that I love to play) is Clinic. I think Alban Viar is at 10 expansions now. But I do not mind that as I like the series.
but.... but... SHARK WEEK!!!!! i will be ordering day 1 cuz why not. i don't get the "outrage" , if the game isn't for you, it simply isn't for you. bottom line is gamers buy it cuz gamers like it.
It's all about different themes. People doesn't need to buy all. Just buy the one you like. More re-themes means more chances to get something we like. Lets take Pandemic for example... I bought "Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu" (which is the weakest mechanic-wise) purely because of the theme I love. And I bought "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" purely because of the superior design due to evolved mechanics and enriched gameplay and not because of the theme that I am not particularly keen on. Decided to pass on the "World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King" (despite that the gameplay is better than Reign of Cthulhu and I am pretty familiar with the Warcraft theme). And I would instantly buy a Warhammer 40,000 re-theme of Pandemic if such product will be made. I don't see anything wrong in having Wingspan, Wyrmspan and Fishspan. Someone may like one of the 3 themes the best and buy only that one. Other may love all 3 themes or just love the system so much that it wants to have them all and any future ones. The more the merrier.
I think when games are overhyped by so many facets of the gaming scene, that there is backlash from those who have other preferences. The classic games that were among those that established and grew the game scene in some way were filling the void of the demand they created. Having expansions every two or three years were looked forward to and appreciated. It is sort of like movie sequels. Some have been appreciated while others seem to be more of a cash grab that don't add anything that captures interest.
I got all the wingspansions, but I don't need a new version of the game. I still only have Terra Mystica, Patchwork, Terraforming Mars. I guess if it's your favorite game you might want all the slight variations - I do have all the Race for the Galaxy stuff - Race, Roll and New Frontiers with expansions. Legacy and Campaigns shouldn't count.
BoardGameCo makes a reasonable argument regarding the oversaturation of other series. Well stated. :) Ticket to Ride, Pandemic, and Carcasone were beating the dead horse long before Jamey got here.
The memes are hilarious, I thought the official trailer was a meme video at first. My only criticism of Finspan is that the name is no good. I get why they went for it, but they could’ve done better. Otherwise, I’m all for it. I’d rather have this than a Dice game variant or a Duel version of Wyrmspan.
I think the kind of silly -span naming convention also fueled the memes. It's not like Reign of Cthulhu (Pandemic) is called Cthulhudemic, and Star Wars: The Clone Wars (Pandemic) is called Clonedemic!
I personally have 0 interest in Finspan. I liked Wyrmspan, I think it's a better game than Wingspan, but it's way too similar to Wingspan for me to own both. However I don't know why people are so up in arms over this. Jamie seems to get a tremendous amount of backlash whenever he does anything and it's completely undeserved. And its like you said, if you aren't interested just ignore it.
People love saying “who asked for this?!?” But honestly it’s the market, the market says it sells so they’re going to release it. That’s who asked for it.
@@egon4564lots of people asked for wyrmspan
When a designer keeps milking the cash cow, people can't help but feel skeptical, and rightly so.
As mentioned elsewhere, commentors should also remember that there are humans behind these games. Connie effectively spent a year of her life working a second job to design and develop Wyrmspan, to make it both familiar and unique. It's fair to like or not like the game, but it's not a reskin and there are easier and more reliable ways to "grab cash". And on the other side of things, Elizabeth Hargrave has posted about dealing with her father in hospice care with cancer - so it's painful, in addition to incorrect, when people complain that Wyrmspan and Finspan are delaying the Wingspan expansion they want.
I have so much respect for Jamey who has done so much for the hobby. He is overly transparent and has helped progress things that are important to me like inclusion and sustainability.
Jamey is truly one of the nicest prone in the space and a very talented designer. He deserves no hate
One the things that people are unaware of that are complaining about Finspan is that it was being being worked on at the same time as Wyrmspan, but Finspan needed more work before being ready. Since Finspan came out a year later, the perception is that Finspan was conceived after Wyrmspan. It takes longer than people realize for a game to go from an initial concept to a published product.
I am all for more wingspan games. Wingspan was able to attract a whole group of new people into playing at the very least their game. Wyrmspan was for the majority of the board gamers with more to it and a theme that is more board game traditional. Finspan is perfect for a whole new group of people. And when they do 5 more it will give SM games the ability to have a nice strong and steady income and let them do other games they won’t be as profitable but more of a passion project. Just like Ticket to Ride or similar games, there will be some people that will own every single game and it will be their ultimate where most people will pick the one or two games they are interested in and that’s it. This is a great product that’s getting spammed for a great company. We should celebrate that.
Did we need another unmatched game!!! The question could be asked for many games...
Can't those be mixed and matched?
...Love Letter. All the 18xx games...We can go on...and on...and on...
People keep bringing up other franchises and equivocating them. First of all, just because other publishers do this doesn't mean we can't criticize SM for doing it. That's a logical fallacy. Second, "Finspan" is a dumb name and is an obvious-yet-lame attempt to capitalize on the "span" monicker. Fish aren't measured in spans; birds are. Dragons aren't measured in spans because they're not birds and also fictional. "Finspan" and "Wyrmspan" are dumb names and make no sense. THAT is what makes it an obvious cash grab...why do I have to keep pointing this out?
I don't hope the game fails, but let people call a spade a spade. It will succeed because "muh Stonemaier game," which is cool with me, but let's not resort to ignoring how much "Finspan" is a complete cash grab based on the "span" thing. Good thing they didn't call it "Seaspan" or the memes would be 100x worse. LOL
@@TateRoberts_007 I think folks are pointing out how it seems weird how Stonemaier gets flack for releasing games as part of a series of games whereas other games/publishers seemingly do not. Perhaps, it has more to do with the names of the games more than anything. Wyrmspan is not a great name, nor is Finspan. I feel like they could have simply given them different names like "World of Dragons" or "Fish in the Sea" or whatever, and then just gave each the subtitle "A World of Wingspan Game".
@@ColonelKurtz yep that’s exactly what my point was 😄 The names are the issue. But also, SM’s games have all been relatively mid for a while. Make a good game!
I'm always interested in games that make learning more accessible. Ticket to Ride's geography, Photosynthesis' plant science, Scoville's horticulture ... if Finspan can help teach my kids to recognize different kinds of fish, I'm not mad about putting it right next to Wingspan on the shelf.
I think Finspan looks kinda cool. I’m not complaining.
How many versions of Monopoly are there?
And UNO
Ok. You say this like its a positive. He needs to just design. Clearly running a business is taking its toll.
13:17 If SM could get the rights from Pokemon to do the fan made "Pokemon Nursery" version, that is the version of Xspan I'm buying.
Yes, that would be an instant buy for me
Thanks for the video! Great positive message at the end too.
Also, I like Wingspan and enjoy Wyrmspan even more and am curious to learn more about Finspan.
Why does SM get all the flack for the -span games?
There are a ton of games that do the same damn thing and get no flack whatsoever.
Great Western Trail
Azul
Unmatched
Horrified
Etc.
I love that you took this route.
It seems like others get wide praise.
We have one Ticket To Ride and one Pandemic at home. No need for there to be so many others but the company knows they'll sell and make money - that's the purpose of a business at the end of the day, not to create what is needed or even what makes sense, but what makes money. New editions with tiny tweaks "keep the puppy frisky" to use the marketing jargon.
@@Ian-R-Wilz I really think it's the goofy titles which illicit the initial negative reaction. I really think they should have named them differently and given them a subtitle "A World of Wingspan game".
@@ColonelKurtz I don’t think it is though. I mean the memes are about that but there is serious hate out there about it being a money grab.
@@GoodEggGuy we have almost every TtR but it’s one of the games that brought us into the hobby and we started collecting them before. They all play a little different which makes it fun.
@@Ian-R-WilzAny suggestion that these games are cash grabs is unfounded. They are intentionally designed to incorporate similar structure, concepts, and mechanisms. But, they are fully designed and developed from the ground up. They incorporate similar ideas of placing animal/creature cards and producing eggs, tucking cards(prey/consume), and so on...but are distinguishable in so many other ways. They are designed for those who like Wingspan or Wyrmspan or Finspan and who want a different game but with a familiar FEEL or a different theme.
A "cash grab" would insinuate that very little work is done to produce a product, yet it's sold at a premium. This is so obviously not the case here.
The World of Wingspan games all share a similar weight and similar mechanisms, but each stand on their own.
I don't feel like "cash grabs" really exist much in board gaming.
A publisher creates the game because they are aware of players' feedback:
A) I really like that exact game, but how about different THEMED ART?
We see typically see this in more abstract style games and when another publisher picks up the rights (Air, Land, and Sea; Hanamikoji; Patchwork; Battleline)
B) I really like that game, now can I have MORE STUFF for it? (Most expansions for a lot of games)
C) I really like that game and its theme, but can I get a SMALLER/SIMPLER VERSION of it? (...the card/dice game, Whitehall Mystery, Twilight Struggle: Red Sea)
D) I really like that game- its concepts, mechanisms, and complexity. Can I get something LIKE IT BUT DIFFERENT? (North Sea/South Tigris/West Kingdom, Wingspan, Pandemic system)
I think what people really are upset by but don't realize it is the way they have labeled these games as being part of the Wingspan "brand". The names are a little silly, and I don't quite like them. I initially thought that it would be best if they each had their own unique/distinct name and simply had a subtitle "A World of Wingspan game". However, people might think the games are somehow compatible/interchangable. So, I don't know. Maybe the titles of the games as they are- as goofy as they sound- are the best answer.
I will die on this hill. I do not care for Wyrmspan as a theme. I so desperately wanted them to make this game instead (and i predicted the name too!). I want a bug-span too, eventually. I love nature themes! And the art is always gorgeous.
Wingspan brought me into the hobby. It was my gateway. These days I'm perfectly happy playing both heavy euros and dice-chuckers, but I will ALWAYS have a soft spot for Wingspan.
I'm so glad I stuck around until the end. What a lovely message.
Man, this is one of his best Ted talks
Lol thank you :)
Excited for Finspan. I have all Wings and never been interested in Wyrms. If he makes another about Worms, that'll be another question, I am probably be on board with all REAL animals is what I like to say. I agree with your analysis on negative reactions completely though.
I have a problem with publishers just putting out more content in a predatory nature like CMOM does with Zombicide and United (even though I have a lot of United) where they do these huge crowdfunding campaigns and use crowdfunding exclusives up the wazzu to channel your fomo and get you to drop $400+ on a campaign.
However, that is not what Stonemaier is doing. They're just releasing games that you can get now or you can wait and get later. Sure, there is a discount for buying it right now but then it'll go into retail at a standard, normal price.
Honestly, I think it's a minority of people that are complaining here. But minorities tend to have loud voices. Somebody wishing though for it to fail is a little bit ridiculous.
It reminds me of the attitude in other nerd properties I've seen in comics and anime fandom and how it was cool when almost nobody did the thing but now that it's become "mainstream" the thing that I loved is no longer cool and must be hated on in order for me to feel cool and special again.
I've always found this attitude and trend in opinion to be completely asinine. If this iteration isn't for you, move along and let other people enjoy. We're not obligated to buy it.
Great video Alex, I've always appreciated how you're willing to tackle topics like this when they pop up.
Completely agree. I remember when Avatar came out, the amount of people who felt it was cool to not like or not watch Avatar... Let people enjoy the thing. It's okay.
I thought it was an April First joke at first, then I remembered it was still January.
If people buy it, then so be it. I'll stick with just Wyrmspan.
Exactly. For some reason, the themes seem a bit more ridiculous, but I don't even know why. When you think about it for a bit, this isn't anything weird. Tickets to ride came to my mind first and you listed so many.
Is there Too Many Too Many Bones?
Supposedly there will be no more bones (aside from maybe some promos).
I think the x-span games do something that most other games don't do. They get people into the hobby by appealing to a particular non-gaming interest. I got Wingspan because I am really into birding. Every time I play Wingspan I name all of the birds without looking at the text on the card. It makes me happy to play a game with a subject I love - and that introduction got me into gaming and I now consider myself a gamer. I understand that Wyrmspan is a more refined, complex game geared toward more advanced gamers. I, however, won't purchase that game. I have absolutely no interest in made up dragons. (No disrespect to anyone who does prefers dragons. We are all different and that is what makes the world an interesting place in which to live.). So for me, as a person who loves to snorkel and SCUBA even more than I like birding - a person who can name most of the fish in the Caribbean sea, you had best believe I am all in for Finspan. I will now be able to name all the fish on the cards as I play them. More happiness!! Life is too short to complain about a game being published. If it doesn't interest you just don't buy it - leave it for those who are interested. As my daughter would say, "Don't yuck my yums!" (And, yes, I did watch the whole video and I understand Alex is not "yucking my yums." I'm just confounded why many others are making such a big deal about this.)
When I saw the title of the video I thought to myself "is it April 1st already?" 😂
Same here!
I don't blame them for releasing a new game in a successful line, but the timing is an interesting choice. I'm probably not going to buy it cause I had issues with Wingspan that were fixed in Wyrmspan, and it is my preferred theme of the three. I just hope that Wyrmspan doesn't get lost in the middle with the close release of the next game. I was hoping for a small Wyrmspan expansion with more unique Dragon Guilds.
the Wyrmspan expansion is arriving later this year.
I a, still hoping they finish the last two wingspan expansions...
Because Stonemaier has a weekly livecast, it’s easy to check that, since the launch of Wingspan, there have always been divided opinions. Some people express interest in the game but feel it’s not for them because it features birds, has too much randomness, or is lighter than their usual preferences. At the same time, others find Wingspan appealing but consider it slightly too complex or not suitable for playing with younger children. I think is only natural for a publisher to try to do something for these people. Btw, the one-year gap between the games happened because they started development around the same time but simplifying a game turned out to be more challenging than making a game more complex.
I don't think you can include games like Final Girl, Unmatched, or Dice Throne because it's a system where every new addition allows players to mix and match the new content with the previous content. In terms of Finspan, I think it comes down to a few things:
1.) Many people never thought that Wingspan was going to get or needed a new addition, which is why Wyrmspan was met with such hesitancy. People ended up liking Wyrmspan because they liked the new mechanisms and of course...DRAGONS! However, Finspan follows up dragons with...fish and supposedly Finspan is meant to be less complex than even Wingspan, which to players of Wyrmspan seems like a step backward.
2.) Not enough time was allowed for Wyrmspan to marinate with game hobbyists before ANOTHER version was announced to come out.
3.) A lot of gamers probably think that by focusing too much on coming out with more versions of one particular game rather than more original projects, the board game space is going to go the way of the Hollywood movie space, not a lot of good stuff to choose from. Finspan might just be the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.
I'm not saying that I agree completely or even in part with each of these reasons, but they seem to be the most prevalent factors to me.
I think all your points are valid, but I think the first two still come down to either buy it or don't, there's no need to hate. The third point is what you get into a more interesting conversation as to whether there's a good reason for pushback. Personally, I think that the quantity of reprinted versions versus innovation means that we're not in any danger of a lack of innovation
1. A lot of people like fish. Fishing is a sport, and people have careers in fish.
2. I'd say the majority of people who are complaining play most of their games less than 5 times
3. Jamey isn't designing this game, and even if he was, people can do more things than 1 at a time
Nah, love I Stonemaier and Jamey is a gem of a human. And while Wingspan is popular, I was never going to buy a bird game. I do own Wyrmspan. Let them cater to the different tastes of the different players.
Agree with Alex, if you’re done with the ‘Span games, don’t buy them. Easy
Sometimes more is not better. Wingspan was wonderful in part because everything was so tight and easy to teach.
the marketplace will decide. chances are it will be a big seller.
On the timing, from what ive seen (like your interview with Jamey), it seems that its not just them starting to do different versions and they're so close to each other, it seems like this was a choice to do two different versions of Wingspan, one heavier and one lighter, and they just put them out a year apart. Its not that we can expect them every year, its just that they are two sides (of two) of an idea and they decided to put out both.
I don't get it either! I mean, we now live in a world full of redos. We barely even have new TV shows or movies. They just do remakes and bring back old shows. Why would board games be any different? At least all the companies aren't just repackaging old games all the time.
Why do Americans have to get mad about everything these days? We can't just not have an opinion.
I don't agree with everything Jamie says, does, believes, etc. But who gives a rip? Why do people think we all need to see eye to eye on every single little thing now? He is free to live his life, create whatever games he wants to create and pour his money into. We as buyers get to decide if it's worth it to us to give him money for what he produces. That's it. Who cares !?
To be fair, the name "Finspan" sounds silly.
FinSpawn
@@siejaiz Pan as a prefix word, meaning all-inclusive, and Fin being the thing(s) most notebaly fish have, so "including all fish" could be another way reading the new title.
Thanks for this, Alex. You tempered the sarcasm just enough to avoid being heavy handed. 😉 And it was actually informative and a good reminder about iterations of games I enjoy that I have not played and expansions I have not experienced.
I am really excited by this! Wingspan is one of my favorite games ever and I hope there continues to be many more.
i dont have any issues personally with more span games, but im on the waiting list for vantage instead :)
It is the most exciting thing that I know about in 2025
There are a lot of comments who didn't watch the video and think you are attacking Stonemaier.
Lol I can tell :)
Im extremely excited for finspan. I didnt realize there was so much hate for it
I made it into a Boardgameco video?? Well sort of, I made Flynn’s Pan 😆.
I don’t know why it’s getting flak, other than the name is pretty bad. A follow up game about fish seems like a logical sequel to a game about birds
That was one of my favorites 🙂
@ 😄 awesome! Thanks for your levelheaded video about the whole thing
The answer will be determined by the market.
Many thanks for this video, I couldn’t agree more!!!
I wish Stonemaier all the best. They now have three different versions of Wingspan for different player types. I got Wyrmspan and am very happy with it. I will skip Finspan mainly because I prefer more complex games and Wyrmspan is hence best suited for me but I hope that Finspan will be a success so that Stonemaier can subsidise more innovative games in the future.
I just watched Jamie do a run through of a couple of turns in Finspan, and it's actually a VERY different games. It's not a reskin with a few new rules.
I felt that way ("I'll buy it but hope you don't make it annoyance") with the expansion to the 7th Citadel. We waited forever for the crowdfunding campaign to fulfill and literally DURING fulfillment before everyone even had their games, they announced a new expansion that went to crowdfunding shortly after, I of course backed it but was seriously annoyed and felt it was definitely a case of too much too soon and insulting to everyone that hadn't even gotten their games yet and that they had us wait 3 years to finish the main game.
Love your attitude!
Excellent!
I was about to thumbs down after 2 minutes, because I didn’t realize you were restating what others had said.
Then you Alex’d the crap out of this topic! 😅. All I can say is, nailed it 👊🏼.
The two examples I thought of were United series (which you covered) - talk about too much too fast - $600! The other is Dune: Imperium, which released in 2020! And there are how many expansions and new edition?!
I know we say evergreen, but the business term is ‘Cash cow’. And businesses that want to experiment and produce new products rely on their Cash cows to sustain them.
“Merchandizing…where the real money…is made…Space Balls the Coloring Book…Space Balls the lunchbox…Space Balls the Flame Thrower - the kids love this one.” - Yogurt
I appreciate and agree with your perspective on this topic. Thank you for sharing your viewpoint.
It’s great that consumers have a choice and these games do not require you to have played the previous one in the Wingspan series. Great for consumers who may like just one or two of them and just a bonus for the fans that want all of them.
From my first game of Wingspan I thought it would be so easy to reskin it to literally anything. Those eggs could easily be footballs and you can skin the box to whatever team you want. I will say Pokespan would be a surefire hit.
I do not think they jumped the shark with this aquatic version of the game
Do not? Or do? You said do not, but the way you phrased it I wasn't clear
How many games based on Marvel exist? I haven't purchased or played any of them.
100%
Also, what about the “Golem Edition” games from that series (I forget what it was called)? That was actually cool, because you could put all of them together (they each had different mechanisms) and play a composite game with each of them - something which you wouldn’t have gotten without having all of them! Yet, that series did not get flack, either!
What Alex is saying here is definitely the correct mindset.
Thank you Justin :)
Jamey definitely serves strong support from the community. The only problem I have with him is that he hasn’t designed any great dungeon crawlers because it’s not his jam. However, Vantage has me very intrigued
Thank you for this video!
I think most of the frustration over Finspan comes from many people in the hobby having the "opportunity" to watch Wingspan go from a new/novel concept of a game system only to watch it grow into a "family" of spin-offs with shared DNA. I'd imagine this is the same feeling that people had when they watched Dominion's version of deck-building go from a novel concept to a staple mechanic.
I appreciate you highlighting that this is not anything new. Also there's a "Profit motive" (aka capitalism) angle to this that revolves around what will actually sell. The reason that we see games like Catan, Ticket to Ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne and other such evergreen games at many big box stores is because they can sell reasonably well there. The reason that we see the billions of versions/modules of Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) at our Friendly Local Game store is b/c that's where it will sell.
Finally, I do think some of the complaints are due to the games being spin-offs rather than expansions. I disagree with the complaints as a whole, but I can see the frustration that a WingSpan fan would have if they've purchased ALL of Wingspan only to find out that it's not compatible with the new hottness that is Wyrmspan (or Finspan).
I love Wyrmspan, just saying :) Great video Alex, seriously I think this was a very important video
Video game publishers do the same thing at an even larger scale.
There is probably an effect with the number of games in a series too. For example, I feel like people may care less if a new zombicide gets released because people expect it at this point. The more games in a series, the less upset people will get for each new addition
It should be SEASPAN!
You should tell them 🙂
19:57 I wonder how many more mechanisms they can have for one game system… Theme is one thing, but one reason I personally think some people are upset is because they don’t see the potential for so many gameplay variations of the system, so they say ‘Oh, another -span game. How many can you have?’ Just my 2 cents.
Personally, as I love diving, I am so happy Finspan will be released. It will be a day one buy, even if the game might be a bit simple and I already have Wingspan.
Stonemaier is such a distinct brand that releases (somewhat) personally-curated designs only once or twice a year. So, I think a lot of folks would just prefer Stonemaier to release completely new and uniquely themed games- ones that don't share ANY similarities to existing products or IPs. Expansions get a pass because they just give folks more for games that already exist.
Would I prefer Stonemaier to release a new game with a wholly unique IP and a completely unreleated/distinct set of mechanisms? Probably.
Will I really enjoy Finspan enough to buy the game? Most likely.
Loved this video❤❤❤
I honestly don't understand why folks are so up in arms about this - but folks get all excited for new West Kingdon / North Sea / South Tigris games...?
Omg you're completely right...another great point
There's lots of people that will love Finspan. I told my wife about it and she was super excited. I on the other hand, am quite happy with Wyrmspan. I will probably wait and see if the gameplay in Finspan is significantly better.
Like anything, there's diminishing returns. I think the next game probably says more about how many copies of Wingspan/Wyrmspan were sold. Stonemaier probably has an idea of how many Finspan they will sell based on the success of the other games + diminishing returns.
Interestingly, the game for me that seemed to really jump the shark was Dune Imperium:Uprising. However, it succeeded wildly because of how good it was in streamlining and balancing the original. I was skeptical on Uprising, but it's just better and so I don't really care? I think the same will be true of Finspan if it's better.
On a funny note, I did just finally order Everdell: Farshore and I'm hoping like you said that it is basically a Dune Imperium: Uprising situation.
More options is fine. With most of the lines you mentioned, I usually end up with my favorite 1-2 of each line. Except for Dune: Imperium, Spirit Island, Vindication/Vestige, Terraforming Mars, Aeon's End, C:DMD, and Nemesis. There's just some where I want all the things!
And, to be fair, they aren't really using the same "system". They're different games. It's more akin to raiders/wayfarers/architects/explorers/viscounts/paladins/shipwrights/scholars/inventors/plumbers of the north sea/west kingdom/south tigris/east L.A.
I 100% support Jamey and hope this game does well, as I would for any publisher. That said, I must admit I thought this was supposed to be a joke when I saw this and didn’t think it was real. My gut reaction was “who wants this?” I think there are two main issues and you touch on the first: people can’t come to terms with not having it all. The second issue is this: in our society, it feels like every good tv show or book or movie has to have 10 spinoff series, branch out into other areas, and be diluted to the point where no one enjoys it anymore. I feel like this is a lot of what is behind marvel fatigue. It is why people complain that Hollywood has no new ideas and is just doing remake after remake. When gladiator 2 trailer came out, even though it was probably 20 years after the 1st, I just sort of rolled my eyes and couldn’t stand the thought of another remake. What are your thoughts on people reacting to this due to remake fatigue Alex? I do think it’s interesting this particular game is getting pushback. I don’t think it’s entirely unique to finspan, but maybe pronounced here. I can remember people getting cranky at Gloomhaven 2nd edition. I think Awaken Relams avoided this with nemesis by promising “it would be the last”. I think if Jamey made that statement, most of these complaints would have not manifested.
I do not see the problem here... this year there will be a third Avatar-movie and though it will be the same movie in another setting (fire-smurfs this time) people will pay to see it... so why is a third Span-game such a tragedy? It is just a trilogy like those Garfieldians keep producing. I love Wingspan, still play it a lot, I love Wyrmspan, different enough to be a completely different experience, and I look forward to Finspan because I know it will be different and I will get to know a lot more about fish through what will no doubt be perfectly designed cards. And as long as they can change the gameplay enough I want more Span-games... Spiderspan would be a great one.
They should make Ark Nova for dinosaurs.
I'm happy with another "span", also because it has differences, I prefer that than only reskins.
BTW, we have also Azul family with 5 games
Century with a trilogy doubled by reskin and 1 big box
You missed Codenames. The dozens of versions of Codenames are what keeps CGE in business so they can make actual good games (like SETI).
Played Wingspan and all expansions so far, haven't had a chance yet to play Wyrmspan. May try this new one if would ever gets chance to
I like that a Kickstarter for a new Everdell was just announced
Great topic and good communication.
Now, hold on a minute...if we encourage this pattern and more and more ****span games are created, eventually there will be enough versions of span-games for Stonemaier to create Span-gamespan and the whole of reality will collapse in on itself.
I'm glad someone made a video about this! I felt somehow disappointed at the time when Wyrmspan was announced. Wingspan could very well be my favorite board game, but I've always been a strong proponent of taking chances on new, original IP's/ideas instead of milking a successful thing dry (e.g. two TV shows off the top of my head: The Office, Stranger Things). I felt like, "Oh, there's one less potential new and original Stonemaier game to discover this year." Granted, new and original ideas are not guaranteed to be commercially successful, so I understand why the publisher is going this route. Wingspan was that rare lightning in a bottle that only comes around every once in a while. But I still lament each new spin-off, which only waters down what made the original title so special.
Thank you for being reasonable and putting this out. The deluge of memes and hatred about the game are intensely draining to have to wade through. There are so, so many game series that don’t take this heat (four core Azuls and then multiple spin off versions of the first one and nobody has said anything). Ever since I knew about Wyrmspan I’d heard there were only going to be the three versions. And I had multiple people reach out to me to see what I knew because they were so excited about it, which is awesome.
The only point I’ll disagree with is the mention of Final Girl and o my slightly. I think season one was by far the weaker of the two, season two was a series of excellent design experiences on display, and after season three I’m going to be out just due to how much content there already is. But if they want to keep going, then I support that too.
A game like --span is important to the hobby because of how much enjoyment it brings to people and the amount of dollars it can bring in for publishers, especially smaller ones. Those games succeeding keeps the company alive. It gives more designers more avenues to work through and then take their experience and share it with other publishers and designers. Success in this very small industry of ours only breeds more innovation and success.
I totally forgot about Azul, Good catch.
And yeah, I don't have a problem with memes that are just for the sake of the meme, but it definitely did feel that this game was getting a lot of hate that others don't.
Continue to hit the nail on the head. Great video Alex! I love to support SM and Jamey. Great dude, and really gives back to the game community. The meme's might be "funny" to the general public, but I'd bet that they hit a little close to home for Jamey and his team. Luckily, their games sell well, and rightfully so.
So here is my take, i would say that multiple spans with different themes is fine, each of those themes could encourage someone in to buying in to a new hobby. So for me, birds?, yeah alright, dragons? No, fish?, yes i really like fish and aquatic beasts so depending on how it ends up playing id probably sell wingspan and get finspan.
I think multiple themes of almost the same game is doing this hoby a service.
Finspan should have been released before or instead of Wyrmspan IMO. Looking forward to Finspan and hopefully expansions.
The success games I don’t like DOES cost me having to fight with my game group for a different game.
😂
I've enjoyed both wingspan and wyrmspan. Finspan looks like it could be a great game for introducing people to games, a bit easier.
How different are the games? That’s usually my evaluation on “cash-grab” versus not. I think Farshore is 90% Everdell, at a high price point. The “span” line feels different to me, different designers, development, etc.
I never played Wingspan. But another series with many expansions (a game that I love to play) is Clinic. I think Alban Viar is at 10 expansions now. But I do not mind that as I like the series.
Great video, btw!
I will buy it because it appeals to my wife and I. The Wyrmspan one did not appeal to me.
but.... but... SHARK WEEK!!!!! i will be ordering day 1 cuz why not. i don't get the "outrage" , if the game isn't for you, it simply isn't for you. bottom line is gamers buy it cuz gamers like it.
It's all about different themes. People doesn't need to buy all. Just buy the one you like. More re-themes means more chances to get something we like. Lets take Pandemic for example... I bought "Pandemic: Reign of Cthulhu" (which is the weakest mechanic-wise) purely because of the theme I love. And I bought "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" purely because of the superior design due to evolved mechanics and enriched gameplay and not because of the theme that I am not particularly keen on. Decided to pass on the "World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King" (despite that the gameplay is better than Reign of Cthulhu and I am pretty familiar with the Warcraft theme). And I would instantly buy a Warhammer 40,000 re-theme of Pandemic if such product will be made. I don't see anything wrong in having Wingspan, Wyrmspan and Fishspan. Someone may like one of the 3 themes the best and buy only that one. Other may love all 3 themes or just love the system so much that it wants to have them all and any future ones. The more the merrier.
Tell this to anyone who has played a Paradox 4x PC video game.
I think when games are overhyped by so many facets of the gaming scene, that there is backlash from those who have other preferences. The classic games that were among those that established and grew the game scene in some way were filling the void of the demand they created. Having expansions every two or three years were looked forward to and appreciated. It is sort of like movie sequels. Some have been appreciated while others seem to be more of a cash grab that don't add anything that captures interest.
Does it include a smelt?
There’s just something fishy about finspan, I feel like they’re just trying to reel me in without opening the tackle box of new ideas.
Wyrmspan did not appeal to me. Since I enjoy fishing, Finspan is essential.
"There's too much".....zombicide anyone? But seriously, it's all fine. Just get what you want and ignore the rest.
I got all the wingspansions, but I don't need a new version of the game. I still only have Terra Mystica, Patchwork, Terraforming Mars. I guess if it's your favorite game you might want all the slight variations - I do have all the Race for the Galaxy stuff - Race, Roll and New Frontiers with expansions. Legacy and Campaigns shouldn't count.
No. I had fun playing it. Definitely it's own game with a little familiarity.
Yes, we need more! Give me frogspan and bugspan!!!!
BoardGameCo makes a reasonable argument regarding the oversaturation of other series. Well stated. :) Ticket to Ride, Pandemic, and Carcasone were beating the dead horse long before Jamey got here.
The memes are hilarious, I thought the official trailer was a meme video at first. My only criticism of Finspan is that the name is no good. I get why they went for it, but they could’ve done better. Otherwise, I’m all for it. I’d rather have this than a Dice game variant or a Duel version of Wyrmspan.
And personally, I’m sticking with Wyrmspan. I don’t need more than one game in this series and for me Dragons > birds & fish
Don’t get me started on how many versions of rummy there are
Span games are welcome to grow
I am fine with companies doing this. It means I can pick the theme I want for that game. I am a brony, so make Equestriaspan. I will buy it. :)
I think the kind of silly -span naming convention also fueled the memes. It's not like Reign of Cthulhu (Pandemic) is called Cthulhudemic, and Star Wars: The Clone Wars (Pandemic) is called Clonedemic!