I TESTED TWO DIFFERENT FERTILIZER METHODS! HERE ARE THE RESULTS!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ส.ค. 2022
- The fifth experiment in the Twinscape series! This time we are testing two very popular fertilizer methods against each other! Lean Dosing vs Estimative Index Dosing. I've tested them both next to each other for 6 weeks, and in this video we are going to see the results!
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Which experiment should we do next? Comment below with your suggestions!
Playlist with all experiments: th-cam.com/play/PLr.html...
🚨Watch this next!🚨
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Heavy fish stock VS no fish stock. How much of a difference does a big bioload do to plant growth?
Siesta vs no siesta. (My experience has been that siesta is actually counterproductive despite intuition telling you it's more growing time)
Maybe you can test the TWINSTAR Nano Plus it should prevent algae
Maybe your usual co2 method vs co2 filled bottle inside the tank ( not visually appealing though)
Or maybe
Extra potassium dosing vs usual dosing
I would love to see a lighting experiment, 9000K vs 2000K.
Next experiment Aquascaping light vs Normal Led Lights. Let's see what happens
Yeah 😁
That's been done to death already
@@aquajunction3727 i don't have budget for commercial one's 😁😁
@@almahiislam3424 i too use led bulb of 6500k 900 lumen for 6 hours a day and and blue green led bulb. You can see results on my channel 😉
@@aquajunction3727 what's the benefits of having the red and blue lights versus only white lights
Next experiment- Have one light on for 7 hours straight, while another light has a brake in the middle, so is on for 4 hours with a 3 hour brake then on for another 3 hours. would be interesting to see the results on this. And as always another great video!!
Love to see this run, get a definitive answer on the split light schedule
That depends on the soil. In dirted tanks, co2 is created through decomposition in the soil. In aquasoil tanks (especially very lightly stocked tanks), much less decomposition can occur. As a result, most of the co2 comes from air diffusion (or co2 injection) into the water. The middle dark rest period, or "siesta" as Walstad calls it, really only works for dirted tanks because it allows the substrate to replinish the co2 so that the plants can more effectively compete against algae. As a reference, I have a non-dirted heavily planted tank with an UG filter, and the rest period did nothing for my plant growth or algae reduction. Now, I also have a large amount of surface agitation, and surface agitation can release co2 so that it's not allowed to build up any more at night than day, so that could be a confounding factor. In other words, REQUIREMENT: experiment should have minimal surface agitation. Another factor is fish load; If you have a lot of fish, most of your co2 could come from them, day or night.
It would be interesting to see a tank with and without a cleaning crew of Snails, Shrimp and maybe Ottos ☺️
Yes a experiment on which clean up is better
Actually this is a good suggestion.
Great idea👍
Hey MJ, great experiment again.
We hear a lot of difference in time of light.
2 exactly same tanks.
1 tank 7 hr light and the other 12 hr would be interesting to see, espacialy algea and plantgrow.
Love this experiments you do.
As a newbie I learned so much from your videos already. You have such a calm way explaining everything
Love your videos. You've inspired me to make my own now, too.
MJ these vids are why I started following your content, another great series - thanks.
I see most of my curiosities have been suggested already, but maybe a high vs low temp comparison as something different.
Interesting experiment mate. I'm glad that you had to do all of that math!
You always do such great videos. I especially like the comparisons and builds.
Glad you like them!
I love your experiments. Thank you so much.
Great experiment mate
Thank you, I am doing well, thanks to your channel. You have inspired me to start my own planted tank. I have my own “big shallow” now and it is doing well thanks to your knowledge. Appreciate you and I hope your doing well as well 🙂
Great videos on the playlist! Makes decision-making a little easier.
Next experiment I would like to see is a comparison between the dark start method and planting and filling from the start.
Keep up the great work! Enjoy your channel immensely!
I'm a week or so out from ending the "dark" period. Tests allowing. I actually rebuilt the hardscape (not soil) after two weeks of watching it which was an unforeseen benefit. First aquascape so mistakes were made and I had time to fix them! I would second that comparison.
Different plants has responded differently 😮.Didn't expected that
Thank you so much for video, awesome work bro,,,,,
my favorite Aqua Channel. THX.
You can mix your own ferts for lean as well, and I think that would bring the costs closer together. Also to prevent the mold, you can add 10 milliliters of glutaraldehyde (usually sold as a “liquid carbon” in products like seachem’s excel) to the micro solution. Alternatively, if you store the ferts in a fridge, it will prevent the mold growth as well.
Thank you for this advice. Very helpful!
Do we really need to store fert in fridge?
I do 20% glut in my micro.mixture and store in the fridge. Never an issue and I dose glut at the same time as ferts (long battle with bba)
Also, @Mike Brown - have you mixed for lean before? considering mixing for lean and increasing root tab usage to help with the BBA (using black diamond sand for substrate).
Great experiment 👍🏻
Thank you very much for this video !
I was on the verge of letting myself be convinced by lean fertilization for my next project, I had almost decided to try this method.
And then I know I wouldn't!
the compact aspect of the plants is, for me, what makes the difference visually and your video showed me that it is the estimated index that gives that.
So once again thank you 🌱🌿💦
A year goes by so fast, but that was some quality experiments that you conducted 👨🔬
I love these comparison experiment videos :)
Glad you like them!
Hey Mark, interesting comparison, cool vid mate.
Thanks bud!
What a GREAT content you put out to us in that video! Thanks a lot!
I guess a hybrid approach between those methods is the best thing to do, adjusting accordingly to each tanks features: plant mass, substrate, CO2 etc.
Thanks for creating informative videos for aquascapers! I would love to see an experiment with CFL lights vs regular aquarium LED lights. Thank you.
Idea for next experiment. plants grown in different rgb colour for example higher blue or higher red colours. Keeping the whites and green as a common variable.
Really interesting comparison i wouldn't have guessed these results.
Experiment suggestion: Plant growth based on the light distance from the surface of the water (how much difference does it actually make)
My opinion is if your substrate like an aquasoil is already stable or old enough, you can go EI. If new then you go for the lean dosing. Because if rich in nutrients you might see yourself ended in Algae bloom if not proper took care of it.
Thank you as always for your thoroughness. I really appreciate how much time and effort you put into these videos. This was a great experiment. I've tried both methods myself, and for my style of fishkeeping I go for the lean dosing. But when I say lean I mean whenever I remember lol. Looking forward to the new experiment. Take care.
Whenever you remember is the best fertilizing method! 😅
Time flies! It felt like I only watched the start of the experiment a short while back. Could you use the DIY kit for lean dosing?
As far as experiments go, I'd love to see what a difference a cleanup crew makes in a tank.
I think you can also do EI method with the Masterline ferts aswell. There is guidance on the bottle for how much to dose per week.
Next experiment; using LED with different light spectrum 3000k vs 6000k and their influence on plant growth.
Expecting more comparison videos bro✌️
You should have more subscribers underrated channel
I know this is several months old, but I just watched it so it's knew to me. Anyway, even though I'm no expert, none of this was surprising to me based on my few years of aquarium keeping so far. If you're doing the same water changes on both, of course you're going to get more growth from the ID method, since it's more broad spectrum and adds more fertilizer in general. Of course the ID method will grow more algae too. And as far a compact growth goes, bear in mind that co2 is a nutrient as well (for the carbon), and plants that have more co2 grow more compact because they don't need to reach and expand out to capture more co2; It makes sense that this is the case with other nutrients as well. As far as cost goes... The average person might think lean would be less expensive, but for that method you're using pre-made liquid fertilizers, which are one of the biggest ripoffs I've ever seen in the aquarium hobby, so of course that would be several times more expensive. Of course you don't need to do buy pre-diluted potassium, but you don't need to do that with the micros either. There are a hundred different aquarium plants, and there's no perfect fertilizer for all of them, considering different plants are going to have different requirements, and aquarists are going to have those plants in different combinations and amounts. As such, I approach planted tanks more with a lean cheap generic broad spectrum fertilization (mostly fish food), plus a boost in NPK here and there, and I don't change water. I have some algae issues, but it's not bad. Personally, I'd love to see some medium to high tech planted tank aquarists come up with methods that don't require water changes (combined with non-ripoff fertilization methods).
that was a great experiment, probably I would have switched the dosing method and observed the changes again for few more days. To be sure whether the differences observed are consistent or is there something new
Great video and very interesting. The test I was curious is after a new set up with new filter what the difference is of replacing water daily for 1 a week and then every second for further two weeks etc compared to just once a week. Does it make a difference.
Interesting time laps big difference
Hi mark! Great video and very useful, just a bit of a doubt: first you said “I dose two pumps” how many ml is that?… and secondly how intense your light is for this dosing? (% & phperiod) having a very similar setup with Chihiros myself (C2RGB) I’m always confused about the right % being such a powerful light.
Thanks for sharing! "Scientifically" it always is important that an experiment can be reproduced. Maybe take the plants where you really saw a difference, maybe even with cut pieces from both tanks, and check, if you will find the same results again in IE vs. lean. Evtl. even leading to solid advices how to fertilize specific plants and how they develop in what environment, respectively...just an idea
potential experiments
DIY CO2 vs Pressurised CO2 (will the fluctuating DIY co2 cause algae)
Dosing ferts vs Heavily stocked tank (no dosing)
High flow tank vs Low flow tank
Good quality plants (tissue culture) vs cheap trimming from ebay
You can dosage the EI sollution at a quarter level, and you will get a lean dosage.
I saw in your video you tried also the all in one lean dosing from Plantedbox. Do you prefer Masterline instead of the all in one solution?
I like planting plants from bulbs gives you a nice surprise :)
Great vid? Can you do an excel vs no excel video where you overdose the excel?
Satisfy forum arguments. Tx.
I saw in the video the All in One lean from Planted box. Do you prefer Masterline?
Great content! I wonder what would happen with an 'in between' fertilization routine. I remember that the PPS pro method was quite popular a few years back. Maybe you could get the best of both.
APT Complete would be a good third option if you ever retry.
Can you try for the next experiment, a tank with sufficient flow and one with poor flow. I always read about how flow can deter algae issues but I’ve also read about how expensive filters can be overrated.
These are separate factors. Not everything that creates flow is a filter. Cheap air/water pumps can be used without filters to create flow, and conversely, filter bacteria can compete with plants for nutrients.
Try the EI but dose only 60-70% ;) much better colours.
Hi @MJ Aquascaping
I’m planning to keep my aquarium below the height of cylinder, in other words my diffuser will be at a height less than my cylinder. Would that pose any issue in dissipation of co2? Please advise as you have a tank at the bottom of your rack. TIA
You probably can make your own lean dosing solutions as well. I expect that to be much cheaper.
Very interesting. I'm planting in a couple of weeks so this was well timed! May I ask what the long slender stem plant with top buds is in the mid ground?
Hey! That is Eriocaulon cinereum!
Dear MJ,
Is it possible the rotala's and ludwigia's take more nutrients from the soil? I have a gravel soil and my rotala's and heterophila are struggling a bit I guess... The myriophyllum and Limnophila go very fast here.
Greetings
Good morning I'm doing terrible 🤣 today last day at work early retirement 😊👍 fan from the u.s. Bay area California
What is the plant with the ball on the top?
Would love to see if u do one of one tank tanking in different fertilizer instead of one.and one with just one type of fertilizer.
I suggest for the next experiment is Used Aquasoil vs New Aquasoil
Great work, very well done. Thank you. Say something to us in French sometime.
Very informative. Could you provide a list of the plants used?
Ludwigia palustris "Super Red" - in Vitro
Staurogyne repens - 1-2-GROW!
Rotala indica - 1-2-GROW!
Hygrophila lancea "Araguaia" - 1-2-GROW!
Rotala wallichii - 1-2-GROW!
Marsilea crenata - 1-2-GROW!
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis - 1-2-GROW!
Myriophyllum mattogrossense - 1-2-GROW!
Eriocaulon cinereum - 1-2-GROW!
Do water changes encourage plant growth?
I think this might be a bit different, but what about an experiment showing how different deficiencies affect plants? ie. a phosphorus deficiency vs a potassium deficiency?
cool comparision. the micros need a dark bottle for healty , this is why your micros looks wird
I would love to see you start two new tanks where one has the twinstar algae inhibitor and the other doesn’t.
Thanks Mark. Your pre-mix brand is clearly expensive - had you just mixed for lean dosing it would have been very cheap, dry trace micro nutrients and separately, potassium, are available. My only other thought is that EI can be problematic if light, heat or CO2 is not kept constant - using DIY CO2 might not be a good idea long-term with EI. Summer this year was a challenge for all of us in NW Europe, my tank was for several weeks 30 degrees centigrade, way above the optimal 23-24, I had to increase CO2 to help control algae but obviously fish can suffer if oxygen levels fall significantly, a real issue for warmer water. Cheers as always.
Do we need to continue Fertilizer dosing when our plants has been grown up fully ? I mean can we stop Fertilizer dosing after 40 days ?
Love this! We at ASG were super interested in your results. Idea though, is your source of potassium on the lean method is just that, potassium only? If so, couldn't you just use the potassium sulfate from your kit to make your own potassium supliment instead of buying a 100€ bottle of watered down potassium sulfate. In the US we can get a bag of potassium sulfate for a few dollars, and as you calculated it will last years. Also, you can make your own trace elements from CSM+B or something like Microplex. Again, waaaay cheaper to mix your own instead of buying it premixed. We love your videos and what youre doing for the hobby! Keep up the amazing work :)
Interesting how they say over dosing won't cause algae, yet here we are, algae.
@@tigersunruss We really love the EI method and suggest it to our viewer base because of how well it grows plants. When balanced properly you won't get algae. Also, the "EI method" recipe is different in Europe than it is in the states. We suggest Tom Barrs old recipe from 2005. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Totally agree liquid fert companies are destroying the world solely for profit, dry ferts are the way forward for this precious world of all of ours.... I use dry ferts in my aquascapes here in Brazil too.... People often fail here because they don't use enough ferts because liquid ferts are way too expensive here... csm+b is amazing and I found a company here in Brazil selling a similar dry micro fert too!
@@tigersunruss I guess the ei TANK DIDN'T achieve balance yet?
@@1Venger Destroying the world for profit seems a little extreme, lol, but there are more efficient ways to fertilize. That is for sure. When we mentor those starting out, we generally start them on an all in one, and when they get comfortable with that, we move to them to the EI method. With all the science we need to learn in the hobby, its hard to push the EI method onto someone in the begenning. But once someone is ready, its REALLY sustainable, which is great! :)
Great experiment MJ
On an 80ltr medium planted tank how much liquid Potassium would you dose weekly?
With strong light and CO2 20ml
Without CO2 10ml
So how much mg per liter per week nitrat phosphat and fe was the lean and the ei method ????
It's very interesting to watch, but you should have explained how many nutrients were added, you should have clearly stated in the video how many ppm of nutrients per week you added from each method, not the results from the water test, but from what was added to make it clearer. So how many ppm do you add from each method per week (N,P,K,Fe) does the masterline product contain the ingredients?
Under gravel filter for aquascapes, vs canister vs hob vs sponge
What is that plant you're using for carpeting? Looks awesome!!
It's a mix of Lilaeopsis brasiliensis and Marsilea crenata
Quick Q… with tanks so close to one another.. why not use a single co2 tank with splitter instead of separate CO2 tanks..??
Please do an experiment which compares root tabs of different brands
Top video Mark! Ik heb wel een vraag, wat als je nu veranderd qua dosing method. Hoe snel en wat zijn de veranderingen van de tank? Ga de alg van EI tank vanzelfd weg bijvoorbeeld. En wat zou de S. Repens doen in de Lean tank als je overgaat op EI?
Ik vraag het me af, want zou je de 2 dosing methods ook door elkaar kunnen gebruiken namelijk?
Als je van Lean over gaat naar EI zul je vrij snel veranderingen zien, maar andersom denk ik iets minder. Algen zullen ook wel vanzelf weg gaan, maar dit zal wat langer duren.
Door elkaar gebruiken kan ook wel, dan zou ik 1 week EI doen en de week daarop lean bijvoorbeeld.
I was always under the impression that fish provided enough nutrients for plants in a tank. Have you already experimented with fish vs no fish?
What's the explanation for the bubbles on the surface of the water in the Lean dosing tank? They're both running the same CO2 but in every picture the lean dosing tank has a much larger concentration of bubbles on the surface. Just an intriguing detail I noticed.
Thank you. What is the plant's name with the string leaves and balls at the end of each one
Eriocaulon cinerum or something like that 🤣
I would like to dose self mixed ferts 1x a week, in a large gravel tank with low light, diy CO2 and super low maintenance plants like moss and valsinneria
Cool experiment, but it would have been more scientific if the same fertilisers were used on both thanks, just in different amounts.
For the next experiment would also suggest the Dark Stark X Normal start. 😉
Could u do a apt vs niloc g .
Bright light 8 hours vs medium /low licht voor 12 hours or more
Is it possible to use the EI kit for a lean fertilisation just by increasing the concentration or the doses?? If it’s possible it’s gonna be great!! In this way, you can benefit from the advantages of both methods at the same time: cheap but also better results in colours, slow growth and more affective against algae 😅😅
I hope it works
The effectiveness of uv sterilizers on tanks. I.e. the twinstar/chihiros doctor vs tanks with no uv sterilizers. Unless you already know that it has no positive effects, then plz share that info! Thanks!
Hi man😢😢😢, thanks for your attempt. But the experimental conditions were heavily manipulated by taking the self-made, dumped together nutrients from an unknown source. Correctly you should have started everything identically. So you also have to use the same fertilizer from your sponsor and then simply fertilize according to the Estimate Index. Then it would be correct. You don't have to harm your sponsor with it. But as it is, the whole thing has a very strange taste in my eyes for the audience. But the video is in very good quality👍😍
Doing Poseidons work thank u
you can also make your own solution for lean dosing method which will be super cheap :)
at least i mix my own salts, its like 1 euro per 500ml bottle for micro and 1,50 euro for potassium
What are the plants with tall stalks like alliums? Thanks.
Hey! That's Eriocaulon cinereum!
Can you make a longer Video about your diy fertilizer ? :)
Watch this one th-cam.com/video/eMnYeFx08_I/w-d-xo.html
Hi MJ, Kindly tell me what CO2 diffuser your using in those tank and if possible send me the link. I am using DIY CO2 and i need to try this.
Hey this is the Aquario neo diffuser tiny
I suggest a comparison between 1) pressurized co2, 2) pressurized co2 + liquid carbon. Ideally you would add 3) no co2 and 4) only liquid carbon....but that might be a bit of a struggle ;)
I’m trying to think of more ideas for you to try! Maybe heater vs no heater? Idk haha 😆 it would be cool for you to set up a little breeding project of some kind!
Hmm a breeding project could be interesting as well yea!
Hey Mark, i'd love to know what brand co2 diffusors those are?
those are so low profile, can't find any that small.
Aquario
Yep Aquario indeed 😊 This is one is literally called the ''tiny''
Would the color of a background affect plant growth? Say black or white. It might be obvious but you never know. Thanks MJ for all you do.
Maybe slightly, but not sure!
i think you should do EI but with limited nitrogen. I think you'll get all the benefits of compact healthy growth with limited algae. I enjoyed this video though. I use my own EI solution with no Nitrogen added (fish waste provides this) and for Micro i use Easylife Profito, which is an all in one fertiliser but with no nitrogen or phosphates but mainly trace elements. Always seems to work well for me. I was also surprised by the compact growth and i loved how your s'repens turned out
Also, not sure if it matters but i thought estimative index relies on daily dosing. So you would do somthing thing like .80 mil per day ?
Yeah that's what I've heard as well. In this case I just wanted to stick with what the guide with this DIY kit suggested.
What are the tall stemmy plants with the little balls on the ends? Great experiment!
eriocaulon cinereum
@@MJAquascaping Thanks so much! Love your videos.
Sand or gravel with root tabs vs aquasoil
Iyiki TÜRKÇE ALT YAZI kullandınız sizin mükemmel bilgilrinizi anlayabilip aboneniz oldum teşekkür ederim.
Your EI salt mix, can you link us to it? Thanks.
planted-box.com/product/estimative-index-kit/?amb=27
I would buy potassium sulfate and make my own fertilizer. And make estimate index micro fertiliser. Thats the cheapest way to go