It would be interesting to test the loudness stat against scavs. cause they will not actually be hearing but being told they heard something, and that stat might modify that equation.
I play PvE and in my experience this seems true. After I started using higher loudness reduction (around -30) AI seem a lot less inquisitive to my shots than some of the early game surpressors. Makes the game far more tactical than being zombie horded by Scavs after a few shots.
Scavs have like a 6th sense, doesn't matter if youre making noise or being dead quiet in a corner, if theres a dead body nearby they gravitate towards it, often times the dead body is result of a gun fight which they also gravitate towards, packing mags, looting, reloading, voiping, voice lining, or simply being the last pmc alive, they just walk to you, im convinced thats just how theyre programmed.
I’d also like to know this, seems like very little I do can prevent a scavalanche. Do they inform other scavs near them? I take one down on interchange even with a silent weapon and all the scavs on the map and killa swarm me
I don't think scavs act by sound, but just by knowing you're aiming at them and shooting, since all of these things are registered in the server, that's why when you aim at them, most will instantly aim back at you, specially bosses even if you're far away from them.
@@dwaynetherock-hardjohnson5676 They actually "speak" and tell voice commands to other scavs, you can do this when you're a scav, if you scream help or something like that, they will come to you and try to help you if there are pmc's around you they will fight them. But like I said in another comment, I don't think they actually hear what you're saying, they just react to a command, this command in the line of code is for example: "if {player.press.button.y>2 and scavs are closer than 20meters = scavs.go.closer.to.player.position(x-y)}
@@daedalus6433you are right and i understand that but at least make it so they are much rare or fix the missing sound crack of supersonic bullets past 100 meters, i understand the tactical advantage of supressors and they should be a viable and strong option of course but everyone has a supressed weapon mid-late wipe and it makes raids feel empty if you dont hear anything at all IMO (And give subsonic rounds a purpose in Tark )
I've always felt that suppressor access is one of the biggest contributors to the early->mid wipe transition (second to ammo and followed by scopes), and has always had a huge impact on how quickly early wipe passes by. The advantages they offer far and away outweigh the negatives (which, funnily enough, is mainly weight & ergo) and it completely changes how PMCs play the map since it becomes so much harder to determine player movement and location. I really think they need to rework how suppressor sound permeates through the environment. They should be less audible, yes, but on most maps you should still be able to hear the shot go off out to at least 300m. The benefit they offer should be the lack of positional data hearing a suppressed shot gives beyond the general direction, particularly in midrange fights from 100-200m. That way subsonic rounds have a purpose in significantly reducing your sound profile even further at the cost of penetration power.
seems like the no bullet crack passed 100m might be a away to change the audio when the bullet goes subsonic without having to simulate each bullet fired
I play Woods a lot and I noticed silencer loudness stat affects the scavs - the higher the stat the less AI scavs you attract with your shots from the surrounding area. And they don't aggro at you if you kill someone nearby and they don't see it.
IMO the way suppressor audio works makes the game worse for casuals or new players, the deficit of information available in raid to new players once the majority of hardcore players get suppressors is a huge disadvantage that compounds with everything else also i love that you replied to my comment on your old video asking for an update and then put out an entire new showcase. you're doing great work for the community beef!
Curious if the SHOOTER noticed a difference with the loudness stat. Maybe a test with headphones off to see if your own gunshots are different at all. This might be a stat for the shooter, and not the shoot-ee.
It sounds much different for the shooter. I was using mini monster and it sounded loud if i shoot, but it sounded much quieter if i shoot using m4sd suppressor. At 50 meters or so, mini monster actually sounds louder than m4sd, if someone else shoots it but after 75 meters it sounded more or less the same.
Also sometimes I kit out a stm to all hell and have a bipod..with the osprey supressor my buddy couldnt hear me shooting like 50 meters away..Ive also mag dumped many duos and they had zero Idea where I was
I assume the bullet crack cutoff is just a less processing-intensive (or seeing as this is EFT, a less buggy) alternative to dynamically cutting it off once the round is subsonic.
Imo the fact that the bullet crack doesn't play for shots beyond 100m is intentional. Whenever I hear the whoosh of shots but no crack, I immediately assume someone sniping
@@daedalus6433 I’d rather have an idea of where I got shot from than get shot at and not have a clue where it came from. The audio is so busted this wipe I was killed by a man in a bush 10 yards from me. Never heard a shot. My teammate never heard the shots.
I'm curious about the 100m inaudability of bullet cracks, as it seemed to be tested only suppressed. Does this 100m range of cracks count on unsuppressed guns as well? Also thanks for explaining why the cracks and wizzing happens randomly!
@@Gigabeef Yea, your testing isn't exactly right but it is one of those things that you just don't know what you don't know and it isn't your fault. If you can check my comment history there are a few considerations to test if you would like. Frankly, I don't think it is that important but certainly one of those "the more you know" things. Crack/bang does work in Tarkov but at the ranges most people are fighting at it doesn't really matter.
I feel like all of these videos that try to "analyze" audio are missing a more robust metric to actually measure the audio. What we need is the spectrum of the signal and the SNR. And a definition for minimal SNR that audio is considered heard. Audio files should not be analyzed by individual ears but rather with objective tools
Very nice testing, a slight correction on the final part though. Just because the bullet it self slows down below the speed of sound does not mean it hasn't broken the sound barrier. It is not the bullet causing the crack but the "explosion" as the bullet enters or exits the speed of sound. In other words it is the moment of passing the speed of sound causing the crack. This is why the bullet hits before you hear the bullet.
It's called rapport, not explosion but yes. However, there are exceptions like 45ACP that are inherently subsonic so you will actually hear the rapport before you hear the bullet whiz by. The only time you hear the crack is when the round is subsonic, and even then you will only hear it within a few meters of the travel of the bullet at distance.
I wish someone would test bullet velocity because i think the bullet velocity is very unrealistic in this game. It doesn’t make since having to lead a pmc running left to right at 30 meters and having to aim infront of him with weapons that have pretty high velocity i also believe that rate of fire is much slower compared to what is mentioned on paper
Yes, it does make sense. It takes 0.15 seconds for 55gr 5.56 moving at 3150fps to reach a target at 30m. The average human can close 21 feet/7 yards/6.4m in a second meaning you have to aim almost an entire meter in front of them for contact. This is why EOTechs or any sight with a Primary Arms ACSS have the "donut of death", you put them on the edge of the circle at any range and fire to get a hit, or go half value if they are running at 45 degrees. If using a milradian optic you need to lead about 4 mils at 30m. I'm going to post a link in a second comment in case this channel blocks links to other channels so you can check it out and learn you something.
@@daiaki1975 haha I got it by looking at the wrong column on my ballistic solver! You’re correct, about .02 seconds. At 30m you’re looking at 10.2” of lead required for someone running perpendicular or you will miss. My point still stands about using the edge of the donut, I’ll have to rerun the math in mills to double check in the am, just woke up for water and decided to pop on a video but saw your comment amd figured I’d say you’re right.
Scans hear every gunshot regardless from any distance and come right to you in pve mode. I hate it. Every interchange raid ends up being like 30-50 kill raids with no chance to really loot your kills.
Not true, it is dependent on the round. If you are using meta ammo (aka high velocity) the cracks are louder than using slower velocity rounds. Run some raids with CBJ and you'll notice it takes the scavs a few seconds to figure out where it is coming from. There are a few variables and it isn't modeled perfectly, but it is very good for a video game.
@@s1mpleeeeeee because a bullet is an object traveling faster than the speed of sound in the mdeium it's traveling through, it creates a pressure front centered on it (i dont understand the mechanism of how it happens very well). Relatively frequent (~20-20000 Hz) changes in air pressure ARE what your ear detects and then your brain then interprets as sound. Hence, when that (relatively narrow) pressure front hits you, you hear a loud sound.
There is actually two sounds, the rapport of the firearm and the crack or whiz of the round flying past you. Sound moves at about 1250fps (elevation depending) while the rounds move anywhere from 2000fps to just over 3000fps depending on cartridge. You can actually range an enemy pretty accurately by using the crack/bang method, roughly every second after you hear the crack of the round passing you until you hear the rapport of the rifle is about 100m per second. Obviously this can vary depending on the velocity of the round itself, and example is you would hear a .45ACP rapport at 200m before you hear the round fly by as 45ACP is inherently subsonic meaning the rapport is moving faster than the round.
It would be interesting to test the loudness stat against scavs. cause they will not actually be hearing but being told they heard something, and that stat might modify that equation.
I play PvE and in my experience this seems true. After I started using higher loudness reduction (around -30) AI seem a lot less inquisitive to my shots than some of the early game surpressors. Makes the game far more tactical than being zombie horded by Scavs after a few shots.
Scavs have like a 6th sense, doesn't matter if youre making noise or being dead quiet in a corner, if theres a dead body nearby they gravitate towards it, often times the dead body is result of a gun fight which they also gravitate towards, packing mags, looting, reloading, voiping, voice lining, or simply being the last pmc alive, they just walk to you, im convinced thats just how theyre programmed.
I’d also like to know this, seems like very little I do can prevent a scavalanche. Do they inform other scavs near them? I take one down on interchange even with a silent weapon and all the scavs on the map and killa swarm me
I don't think scavs act by sound, but just by knowing you're aiming at them and shooting, since all of these things are registered in the server, that's why when you aim at them, most will instantly aim back at you, specially bosses even if you're far away from them.
@@dwaynetherock-hardjohnson5676 They actually "speak" and tell voice commands to other scavs, you can do this when you're a scav, if you scream help or something like that, they will come to you and try to help you if there are pmc's around you they will fight them. But like I said in another comment, I don't think they actually hear what you're saying, they just react to a command, this command in the line of code is for example: "if {player.press.button.y>2 and scavs are closer than 20meters = scavs.go.closer.to.player.position(x-y)}
In PvE, suppressors seem to reduce how much I get swarmed by scavs if I linger too long
Not hearing anything after 100m is wild, that is why raids feel Dead most of the time, they should increise the range to at least 200m
Uh, no. That is the point of suppressors, other than the recoil reduction and removal of muzzle flash. Rather not have scavs swarming me
@@daedalus6433you are right and i understand that but at least make it so they are much rare or fix the missing sound crack of supersonic bullets past 100 meters, i understand the tactical advantage of supressors and they should be a viable and strong option of course but everyone has a supressed weapon mid-late wipe and it makes raids feel empty if you dont hear anything at all IMO (And give subsonic rounds a purpose in Tark )
@@daedalus6433 I wouldn't say that "Audio being broken is good because the Ai is broken" is a good argument
@@daedalus6433 it should depemd on the calibre large calibers should be considerably louder than 100m
@@potato1499 They should fix the AI first before they do any changes to the range of suppressors imo
Loudness stat is supposed to be how far a npc can detect your shots. Also the mp5sd was designed to keep normal supersonic ammo from going supersonic.
I've always felt that suppressor access is one of the biggest contributors to the early->mid wipe transition (second to ammo and followed by scopes), and has always had a huge impact on how quickly early wipe passes by. The advantages they offer far and away outweigh the negatives (which, funnily enough, is mainly weight & ergo) and it completely changes how PMCs play the map since it becomes so much harder to determine player movement and location.
I really think they need to rework how suppressor sound permeates through the environment. They should be less audible, yes, but on most maps you should still be able to hear the shot go off out to at least 300m. The benefit they offer should be the lack of positional data hearing a suppressed shot gives beyond the general direction, particularly in midrange fights from 100-200m. That way subsonic rounds have a purpose in significantly reducing your sound profile even further at the cost of penetration power.
i agree 👍
seems like the no bullet crack passed 100m might be a away to change the audio when the bullet goes subsonic without having to simulate each bullet fired
I play Woods a lot and I noticed silencer loudness stat affects the scavs - the higher the stat the less AI scavs you attract with your shots from the surrounding area. And they don't aggro at you if you kill someone nearby and they don't see it.
IMO the way suppressor audio works makes the game worse for casuals or new players, the deficit of information available in raid to new players once the majority of hardcore players get suppressors is a huge disadvantage that compounds with everything else
also i love that you replied to my comment on your old video asking for an update and then put out an entire new showcase. you're doing great work for the community beef!
Haha cheers!
Curious if the SHOOTER noticed a difference with the loudness stat. Maybe a test with headphones off to see if your own gunshots are different at all. This might be a stat for the shooter, and not the shoot-ee.
It sounds much different for the shooter. I was using mini monster and it sounded loud if i shoot, but it sounded much quieter if i shoot using m4sd suppressor. At 50 meters or so, mini monster actually sounds louder than m4sd, if someone else shoots it but after 75 meters it sounded more or less the same.
Awesome testing!
The reason you still bet the crack is becuase the sound barrier is broken then that sound still travels.
Also sometimes I kit out a stm to all hell and have a bipod..with the osprey supressor my buddy couldnt hear me shooting like 50 meters away..Ive also mag dumped many duos and they had zero Idea where I was
I assume the bullet crack cutoff is just a less processing-intensive (or seeing as this is EFT, a less buggy) alternative to dynamically cutting it off once the round is subsonic.
Probably yea
great work, thanks
Great video, wish you had tested the m60 and deagle. They seem to just be on the louder end of most guns in tarkov
you could have used a bipod for steady measurement of distance at long ranges. the data is still useful though
Imo the fact that the bullet crack doesn't play for shots beyond 100m is intentional. Whenever I hear the whoosh of shots but no crack, I immediately assume someone sniping
Suppressed guns are broken. Legit unable to hear them at all is ridiculous
It's not broken, it's very much intentional. I'd rather not have an army of scavs run straight to me because I shot once.
Play woods without a suppressed gun and you’ll quickly realize how much you value them. PMCs salivate at the sound of another player shooting lol.
@@daedalus6433 I’d rather have an idea of where I got shot from than get shot at and not have a clue where it came from. The audio is so busted this wipe I was killed by a man in a bush 10 yards from me. Never heard a shot. My teammate never heard the shots.
@@grey-god oh I never leave home without one. Especially because your gun becomes magically inaudible at 100 meters
Actual dent brain comment
Your content is amazing!
SUPER useful information. thank you
Do headset change anything about this? Maybe hearing range or someting??
I'm curious about the 100m inaudability of bullet cracks, as it seemed to be tested only suppressed. Does this 100m range of cracks count on unsuppressed guns as well?
Also thanks for explaining why the cracks and wizzing happens randomly!
Interesting point, I didn't test that one!
@@Gigabeef Yea, your testing isn't exactly right but it is one of those things that you just don't know what you don't know and it isn't your fault. If you can check my comment history there are a few considerations to test if you would like. Frankly, I don't think it is that important but certainly one of those "the more you know" things.
Crack/bang does work in Tarkov but at the ranges most people are fighting at it doesn't really matter.
I personally don’t care about being quiet. I just have a hard time tracking targets in full auto with muzzle flash.
I started tarkov last wipe and constantly have wanted to know what the quietest supressors are..I normally use the wave
Thanks for turning your mic up
I feel like all of these videos that try to "analyze" audio are missing a more robust metric to actually measure the audio.
What we need is the spectrum of the signal and the SNR. And a definition for minimal SNR that audio is considered heard.
Audio files should not be analyzed by individual ears but rather with objective tools
AT 8:28 should there be an advertisement for the video about the ASH-12? Don't see it
Hmm it's on there! Maybe just not showing for you, not sure
This was a cool video gigabeef
Very nice testing, a slight correction on the final part though. Just because the bullet it self slows down below the speed of sound does not mean it hasn't broken the sound barrier. It is not the bullet causing the crack but the "explosion" as the bullet enters or exits the speed of sound. In other words it is the moment of passing the speed of sound causing the crack. This is why the bullet hits before you hear the bullet.
It's called rapport, not explosion but yes. However, there are exceptions like 45ACP that are inherently subsonic so you will actually hear the rapport before you hear the bullet whiz by. The only time you hear the crack is when the round is subsonic, and even then you will only hear it within a few meters of the travel of the bullet at distance.
@apersonontheinternet8006 do you mean report, rather than rapport?
I wish someone would test bullet velocity because i think the bullet velocity is very unrealistic in this game. It doesn’t make since having to lead a pmc running left to right at 30 meters and having to aim infront of him with weapons that have pretty high velocity i also believe that rate of fire is much slower compared to what is mentioned on paper
Yes, it does make sense. It takes 0.15 seconds for 55gr 5.56 moving at 3150fps to reach a target at 30m. The average human can close 21 feet/7 yards/6.4m in a second meaning you have to aim almost an entire meter in front of them for contact. This is why EOTechs or any sight with a Primary Arms ACSS have the "donut of death", you put them on the edge of the circle at any range and fire to get a hit, or go half value if they are running at 45 degrees. If using a milradian optic you need to lead about 4 mils at 30m.
I'm going to post a link in a second comment in case this channel blocks links to other channels so you can check it out and learn you something.
th-cam.com/video/u45lBEPVDus/w-d-xo.html
@@apersonontheinternet8006Wait, where was coming from 0.15 seconds? 900m/sec takes around 33msec to reach 30m.
@@daiaki1975 haha I got it by looking at the wrong column on my ballistic solver! You’re correct, about .02 seconds. At 30m you’re looking at 10.2” of lead required for someone running perpendicular or you will miss.
My point still stands about using the edge of the donut, I’ll have to rerun the math in mills to double check in the am, just woke up for water and decided to pop on a video but saw your comment amd figured I’d say you’re right.
Scans hear every gunshot regardless from any distance and come right to you in pve mode. I hate it. Every interchange raid ends up being like 30-50 kill raids with no chance to really loot your kills.
Use sain and change their hearing radius then
Not true, it is dependent on the round. If you are using meta ammo (aka high velocity) the cracks are louder than using slower velocity rounds. Run some raids with CBJ and you'll notice it takes the scavs a few seconds to figure out where it is coming from. There are a few variables and it isn't modeled perfectly, but it is very good for a video game.
@@mranonymous902He said he’s in PvE mode. So uh… not possible.
Nothing like some good old hardcoded values for the pleasure of all! (Makes me sad)
The sound is playing after 2sec, the bulle tis faster than the audio it's broken
Suppressors are op, they make game boring, maps sound dead. No shots, . I wish they make suppressors super rare so game be alive and raid feel full
but in real life what does make the noise is when the gun is fired right? not when the bullet passes you
Both, the gun makes sound from the gunpowder and break the sound barrier, a bullet that goes past your ear can give you permanent hearing damage.
@@Chevalier_knight so like the bullet kinda "carries" the sound that breaks the barrier when passes you?
@@s1mpleeeeeeethe bullet breaking the sound barrier makes a sound the entire time it’s going super sonic
@@s1mpleeeeeee because a bullet is an object traveling faster than the speed of sound in the mdeium it's traveling through, it creates a pressure front centered on it (i dont understand the mechanism of how it happens very well). Relatively frequent (~20-20000 Hz) changes in air pressure ARE what your ear detects and then your brain then interprets as sound. Hence, when that (relatively narrow) pressure front hits you, you hear a loud sound.
There is actually two sounds, the rapport of the firearm and the crack or whiz of the round flying past you. Sound moves at about 1250fps (elevation depending) while the rounds move anywhere from 2000fps to just over 3000fps depending on cartridge. You can actually range an enemy pretty accurately by using the crack/bang method, roughly every second after you hear the crack of the round passing you until you hear the rapport of the rifle is about 100m per second. Obviously this can vary depending on the velocity of the round itself, and example is you would hear a .45ACP rapport at 200m before you hear the round fly by as 45ACP is inherently subsonic meaning the rapport is moving faster than the round.
thanks!
If it isn't an error ,I find it kinda cool how sound has a travel time in this game.
it's not an error, just a miracle that it works lol
@@AcornFoxPerfect statement for the game as a whole
is grass green?
muzzle flash