i remember not knowing ANYTHING about how poffins worked and just feeding them to my guys because i wanted to interact with them so badly LET ME PET THE SHARP PENGUIN
I realize this is an extremely tiny thing, but I appreciate that the DPPt data is presented with the old-fashioned pixel font, while the BDSP uses the smoother modern font. Strange as it might sound, that sort of attention-to-detail is my jam. :V
You're the first person to mention the font thing (that I've seen)! It's very fun for me, so I appreciate that a lot. (The Berry Crush segment is also in the FRLG font, since that differs slightly from DPPt's.)
"Sorry Trainer, I'm afraid your Cleffa just isn't cute enough for Amity Park. Oh, but your Empoleon fits in perfectly with its adorable blade wings, of course!"
okay this is absolutely hilarious, like wym my absolutely adorable vulpix cannot go it but a uh *checks list* shroomish and drifloon can??? (shroomish and drifloon is still kinda cute to me but hu h) in reality tho they probably just picked some pokemon with existing overworld sprites like drifloon, as its an overworld encounter, and used amity square as a test for walking pokemon in hgss
You know I sat here like "Wait a minute, doesn't HGSS have an adjacent mechanic for the Pokeathlon" but you can tell its been a while since that's Aprijuice and uses Apricorn and not berries. Thank god for that.
The thing with the Amity square poffin smoothness being whack was hilarious I'm sorry I'm just imaging Linneus doing a "LET ME IN INN" impression to a game that's handing out nonsensical results. Like that 6 points thing just left me dead fr 💀
The Sheen level divisions are even weirder than you think here because the whole reason it caps at 255 is because it's an 8-bit system, which can only contain 256 integers (0-255, yes 0 is included). The natural thing to do would've been to divide it into 8 levels of 32, so who knows why they broke it up this way.
@Bluelink13 I wouldn't be surprised if Gamefreak was still holding on to thinking about the optimization needed for older games and systems. If you're already reserving a full 8-bit integer you may as well make use of it's entire range.
@@Yuzuki1337 which makes it kind of sad to see how poorly optimised future games would become (XY, ORAS, and (U)S(U)M make a little sense given that they probably had more issues with hardware optimisation than software optimisation, but the switch titles... I think I've made more optimised projects in Godot for playing around to learn the features of the system)
For the Poffin Case- I agree it was supposed to be a cheeky callback, but I don't think it's to the Bike Voucher! I actually think it's a callback to how you have to go find the Coin Case in Celadon by talking to some old man before you can actually play the games in the Game Corner!
Considering you get the bike voucher in the next town you go to and have to backtrack to the town with the bike to progress I’m not sure why he said it was a few towns over
I recall x&y having an in-depth crop crossbreeding system for berries that's never explained ingame and expected that at the end, but pokemon-amie is probably the more direct pokeblock equivalent of those games
I literally just discovered that a couple weeks ago and I can't remember the last time my mind was so blown by something I stumbled into in a Pokemon game.
A few youtubers have gone into how some of these game mechanics work but they usually only do it as part of a larger video. I would love to see a series on digging deeper on how Pokémon game mechanics work.
Since the first time I saw the equations for calculating EV’s and IV’s on bulbapedia, I have always hoped someone would do that. It’s a children’s game, until you look under the hood.
Forgot the amount of detail they go into, but the TH-camr "Lyra made a website" has made an entire Living Pokedex in the Gen 1 / 2 games and has gone over specific catching mechanics within those games. Good Videos if you haven't seen 'em.
@@ela-811 I mean this in the nicest possible way but it took me exactly 5 days from getting Cyndaquil to having a full Living Dex in Pokemon: Crystal. That is an impressive feat but it isn't this impossibly huge task that nobody can accomplish.
I simply cannot believe someone wrote out these stats, formulated this system, had it approved, and then proceeded to have it effect only one of the smallest, and most innocuous aspects of the game that MOST players genuinely just completely skip.
The funny part being that if this kind of stuff was in the first two generations, it would have been full of bugs because the devteam most likely did not understand how the code translated to reality either.
To be fair, I understand why they thought the sidequest to catch the most powerful Pokémon in the entire series who was only accessible to people who bought tickets to a movie/physically went to a Toys R Us in a 1-week window needed to be simplified more than the inner workings of a side mode with nothing important locked behind it.
I mean, now that you put it like that, I am glad they went this route because the opposite basically punishes people for being born far away from either a Toys-R-Us or a participating cinema.
That's the thing, you can play contest and make poffins and be good enough to clear, you don't need to understand the inner workings of the system else we could also just comply about the battle system with the exact way damage is calculated, but we don't the azure flute excuse is stupid but this isn't exactly a good counter argument per se
I was actually surprised to hear that there's still some undocumented stuff about the way bdsp works, as the game had a burst of interest around its release relating to the various ways the game could be broken, so I assumed the ins and outs would be pretty much figured out by now. But I guess speedrunners wouldn't really have a reason to dig into the mechanics surrounding poffins.
Pretty much. As far as I can tell, Poffins and other niche data-things are the literal one thing people are not interessted in with BDSP. Unused stuff, glitches, enemy trainer changes? Yep, everything accounted for.
I always thought it was weird how in the minigame the end result is a flat and round pancake but in every other depiction the poffin is a puffy lemon shaped bun.
HGSS have a couple mechanics that would have been worth noting here: the the haircut brothers in the Goldenrod underground, and Daisy in Pallet Town, can give your Pokemon a treatment that's equivalent to various levels of Dry Poffin (and, true to the feeding formula, if your Pokemon is already maxed out, these will have no effect). This mainly exists so that HGSS players can evolve their own Feebas without trading, but because the single-player poffins you can make with the one-berry limit you get in DP are so terrible (which forced them to add the buyables in Platinum and putting in multiple berries yourself in BDSP so that players looking for contest stats wouldn't have quite as miserable a time), these haircuts and massages are more efficient against the feed limit than any of these one-berry Poffins.
poffins are probably my favorite contest feature from Pokémon-- i named one of my cats Poffin because I had so much fun making them alone and with friends growing up! I can't waaaait for this video after loving the pokeblock one!!!
You know you're now contractually obliged to make a video about Aprijuice (and maybe the Pokéthlon in general) Love how in-depth your videos are, they're incredibly interesting and thorough
Fun fact: Poffins are actually just muffins, or rather muffin tops! Also, BDSP is just DP but translated into Unity code-wise, explaining the Amity Square limitation.
That really doesn’t explain anything at all, because they could have still made quality of life changes, which they did in some small areas. The real reason would be - if what I’ve heard is true, that GAMEFREAK told the DP remake devs to make a 1:1 remake when the devs presented GAMEFREAK with plans for a more current gen visual take on the games, and it’s assumed that is because it would have blown Legends Asseus out of the water.
@@hansmoleman2666 It's more that they likely didn't have the time or resources to work on a full-blown remake, plus this was ILCA's first time doing more than just a mobile game.
@@hansmoleman2666"They didn't want BDSP to be better than Game Freak's Arceus." LOL. What bullshit cope. ILCA didn't know what they were doing and you know it. Nobody wanted to work on the remake so The Pokemon Company got the people who can barely make mobile apps to do it for them. All ILCA did was copy 95% of the original game and they could barely do that right.
it wouldn't have been that much work. the bulk of the work is literally already done; any pokemon can follow you in the overworld. them deciding to keep the limitation is pointless and unnecessary. i promise rewriting the code for the underground stuff took 100x as many man hours as this change would have taken :P
something about you saying "they are not real!" in that tone of voice makes me laugh out loud every time (also Ive been having so much fun watching your deep dives thank you for making these!!)
Virgin BDSP not adding Pokemon past original DPP Beyond based ORAS having literally everything available up until that point, including new megas and infinite availability for Deoxys and Regigigas
31:00 Ok. I have a theory. It’s obviously not linear so I think there are 2 things which influence your bonus. Your party’s total happiness is used to generate a value from 1-6. Then a bonus is applied based on how many members of your party have max friendship. 2 max friendship = 1 point. This explains you getting 7 points from 1275 friendship. The number gave you 5, then you got a bonus for 5 Pokémon at max which was 2, so 7. That also explains you getting 6 from the 253/254 Vaporeons. Your happiness was in the 6 range (as expected for it being so high) but you got no bonuses because none of your Pokémon were maxed.
I love how there's a solid content market in making comprehensive videos on mechanics in Pokémon games that most people either don't care too much for, or just never realizsd existed (especially in how complex they are).
I'm not sure whether it was your lovely voice or the absurdness of the Pokéblock's implementation that captured my full attention and subsequent subscription on the first video, but I'm sure I'll have no better luck figuring it out this video either.
I have a hunch, for the friendship score, that it's derived from basically taking each friendship value, dividing it by 170, and rounding down. Between what you've shown and some preliminary testing, that seems to hold up.
On the point brought up at the end, I will always be thankful to the Dream World for allowing me to obtain an Arceus for pretty much no effort, truly a product of the time.
I will have to rewatch this video not at midnight because it’s literally keeping me up at night with concern once you got to Amity square and 6 torterra
27:35 I would suggest grabbing a pokemon with 1 extra friendship point, just in case there's some weird off-by-one rounding error and you need to be strictly above the friendship total to get the bonus. That could be why you can only get 9 points, not 10, but also if the limit was 153 instead of 170, you should be getting the first point with your 170-friendship torterra, so... I guess I should just watch on
Huge shoutout to SadisticMystic, he's really damn good at breaking down the game. Glad he's still around. He's also written one of my favorite Nuzlockes of all time, his only one.
I think that part of the problem with the math at 13:31 is one of a common miscommunication. Ive had to teach a lot of people that "People start counting at 1, programmers start counting at 0" Someone without a programming background probably designed this table. And when tasked with splitting a 256 value range from 0 to 12 stars, came up with this list, thinking the values were 1 to 256. 1-21, 22-42, 43-63 and so on, up to 235-255, and a 12-star 256! And then someone clears their throat and corrects him, 0-255. Three eraser marks later and 1 becomes 0, 255 becomes 254, and 256 becomes 255.
Now I really want to know how exactly other food mecanics on pokemon work, especially the sandwiches on sv, because it seems that the powers you get are determinated by certain stats or just are assigned to certain foods
Now I'm imagining your videos as though in the pokemon universe it's like a cooking show where you explain the complexities of different pokefoods and I'm having the best time
Great video! Thank you for going the extra mile to research these topics, even going so far as to perform your own experiments. While not as complicated as Pokélocks or Poffins, I hope you eventually cover the Juice Shoppe in XY, perhaps as part of an exploration of the depth of growing berries in XY.
32:00 I might have a clue on what the teamwork score is. In Sword and Shield, there was something that worked like it for determining if a wild Pokémon appears in camps based on how much your team liked each other. I don’t know much personally, but if anyone wants to look into it I bet the curry hunting community has some kind of resource on it (the place I first heard of it). I wouldn’t be surprised if they reworked the mechanic into BDSP
Hmmm, since BDSP doesn't use SwSh's engine (it's actually Platinum under the hood with a new graphics engine, which is why the modding community was able to get set up so quickly), I'm honestly unsure if this corporate obligation game would have a hidden mechanic like that implemented. If it was a normal remake, I'd agree this had to be the case.
@@AbsolXGuardian That’s an interesting point to bring up. I think in most circumstances I’d agree you, but I think it makes some sense here. They specifically added a place to make poffins there, which considering Pokémon surround it and it’s in the same generation, it could mean it’s trying to that game’s version of curry. If it is then it would be reasonable to implement that mechanic as it related to its (potential) inspiration. Would also explain the weirdness at 30:23 if they were testing with the Torterra team a lot more then the Vaporeon team to build up that score. (which would be the case assuming no Vaporeon testing got cut from the video). Maybe I am giving BDSP too much credit, but I don’t think it’s too far-fetched of an idea.
Why am I even here. Why am I watching these? I don't care about Pokéblocks or Poffins. Yet I watched both videos and I am willing to watch a third one. Help.
Have you considered doing Research streams? I think it would be really entertaining watching you try to understand how all this stuff fits together, watching the BDSP experiments, ect.
Man, I love seeing small channels dive into just the right thing and gain the bigger following they've earned! The work you're putting into these videos is wonderful.
You only have a few videos out but you are already one of my favorite poketubers! There's nothing I love more than going into insane detail in these games
Appreciate the use of Enzo and Drive for the bg music! Also I looooooved this mechanic growing up and just throwing random pet food at my Pokémon. Was a fun time. I miss my Staraptor that carried me through all the master rank cups tho :(
i am,, SO excited for the next video. despite having watched the anime and many of the movies, i never knew pokemon was a game growing up, so i started in high school with gen 6. i feel like nobody ever talks about kalos, and i'm STOKED to discover there's so much i didn't know about pokepuffs that it exceeded the scope of this video. i am very much looking forward to another one of these deep dives, i've loved every one so far :)
I'm surprised you didn't go into depth about Pokéathalon stats (even if they don't involve berries, though maybe they do, I forget), or PokéStar Studios, since those are contest-adjacent.
The thing about the friendship and poffins, I think I have a working theory from the numbers you pulled off. So you can get a max reduction of 9 smoothness with 6 max friendship pokemons. You would assume that it is 1.5 per mon, however, the 5 torterra gave you 7 which should have been 8 alright. What I think is how it works, is that every pokemon, when their friend ship reaches a certain threshhold, it reduces smoothness by 1. AND if you have max friendship with 2 pokemons, you get a reduction of smoothness by 1 again. So having 5 max friendship torterras will give you 7 reduction when using this criteria while having 6 vaporeons with a little under max friendship gives only 6 reduction. So the max happiness overall isn't the key but rather whether the friendship is above a certain number and whether the friendship is maxed per 2 mons. This would make sense.
You are out right INSANE once again for this shit. I love seeing you go so in-depth over these stupid mechanics, it goes so hard! I learned a lot from watching this too.
It's really weird that I was watching this video only to suddenly hear your name spoken aloud and realize "Hey- I know that name! And I HAVE seen this before, why am I watching it twice?!"
16:30 poffins in GO are SO disappointing omg. Like yeah they're useful to a ridiculous extent but it's almost offensive that it's hard to get them forfree. You can't make them. Even though the berries in the game didn't have an effect in the series until GO existed and Niantic INVENTED their effects. Like all the stuff is there. Just let us make them! Like could you imagine getting together with friends after a Raid Hour and spending a few minutes making poffins together? There could even be unique poffins just like the real deal in the main games, maybe some could make the buddy bring you a bigger bounty of gifts, or maybe put a special status on the buddy so it can gather resources, depending on the type of poffin. I'd love a poffin that gives buddy hearts while earning extra Stardust, for example! Like they really need to give a way to justify the fucking things being "worth" one whole ass dollar. Buddy hearts are nice but I want to have my buddy be made unique by the kind of poffins I give it! They could even implement the Bluk berry that's been hidden in the files since 2016 for this! But no. All we get is one boring premium item that makes your buddy take one less day to max out. That's it. nothing else.
I wonder if the sheen division levels was just a mistake in... well... division. You've got levels 3, 6, and 9 have 22 numbers, but also zero. They were going for 12 total sheen levels, and knew they wanted to split them roughly evenly. They probably also knew how many needed to have 22 levels to add up properly in the end, like you did(three). So, since they knew they wanted the breaks every three levels, they probably used a common mathematical function in programming for easily dividing something and using the remainder - modulo. (As stated, taking the modulus of a number and a divisor returns the _remainder_ of a division calculation, rather than the quotient. It's an easy way to group things up into a previously known set of groups. For example, take any number by modulo 4, and you'll get values 0, 1, 2, or 3. (Zero means no remainder, as in the number is evenly divisible by the divisor. 10 mod 4 is 2, since 4 goes into 10 two times(8) with a remainder of 2. 12 mod 4 is zero, since 4 goes into 12 exactly 3 times.) This means that whatever your input, you can split it up into four groups.) So, they did exactly that. For each sheen level, if it was divisible by three(mod 3 = 0), then they made it have 22 values instead of 21. Problem is, zero modulo any number is also zero. So you take the full set of levels, run them against mod 3, and you get 0, 3, 6, 9, and 12, but by then, you've already used all the levels. They probably intended to just have 3, 6, and 9, but the 0 slipped in there because of how modulo works.
I just discovered your channel, and as someone who enjoys videos like this while I veg out, I have to say I am a huge fan of how you deliver your content!
I don't know if I'm hyped up on coffee or something but you are now my favourite youtuber holy crap, this video series has been perhaps one of my favourite ever
Watched the first video on this, was curious if I wanted to stick around... I subbed after "So let's talk first talk about the how Catch and Escape Factors" I can't breathe from laughing. Good humor, and complicated topics. I think I'm in good company.
New gen 10 evolution idea! Place your eevee inside a coffin shake it violently throw your console into a graveyard then dig it up and use spirit shackle 20 times in one battle without fainting any Pokémon besides your eevee now you have skelleon a ghost poison type
13:45 The upper bounds for the ranges are actually exactly given by floor((stars+1)*255 / 12) with an extra special case for 12 stars. However, the game obviously converts gleen to stars, and that formula would be exactly floor(4 * gleen / 85), no special cases required.
You mentioned the Lilycove Lottery which got me thinking about all the vague and unexplained mechanics behind the various gambling events throughout the series... It would be interesting to see a video about that at some point.
I don't have BDSP so I can't really try it out but, couple of possible tests: 1. 6x 0 friendship pokemon to test for how the number of pokemon affect the reduction 2: Repeating similar tests the moment you gain access to Amity square vs a 100% save file to see if there are other variables that might affect the reduction
Honestly, the mechanics of the poke blocks and poffins is so complicated I'm not even paying attention. I'm just here for your voice, cadence and dry ass humor. I'd listen to you reciting 2008 federal tax code (which is probably less convoluted than pokeblock/poffins mechanics)
What about apricorn juice in HGSS? Also, great video! Thanks for doing the nitty gritty and trying to figure out these game mechanics. It's fascinating stuff!
So at 13:39 what I noticed is that all of the lines are evenly split, 3 to a tier. They are all 64 away from each other which doesn't work for 192 because 256 is outside of the scope. It also looks like this was supposed to be a total out of 256, not 255, which when divided by 12 gives 21.33333....... which makes some sense I think, the last point was just given a special layer to show "hey, you're all done" which also makes a lot of sense. So that's where the weirdness in the numbers comes from.
Making poffins was so fun to me as a kid. As an adult? Kinda frustrating at times? The not spilling it is the obvious frustration, but then you have the stir direction flipping and it burning the moment it stops while you're rapidly trying to spin it in the opposite direction
With regard to pressing-power in Berry Crush: I think it makes sense that pressing power is determined by how much of the time you had the A button pressed. If you press a button harder, the difference that the system notices is that the signal from that button lasted longer. (This is used in some platformers as a way the player can control jump height; press the button harder, you keep going up for longer.) If you're pushing the buttons harder, their signals will be active for longer. Pressing power is a silly thing to measure, but they chose a good way to estimate it.
Testing and not finding a strong correlation for stuff like the friendship values and the poffins in bdsp is the stuff that keeps me up at night
What the? Markass is here?
@@Tailstraw_xD It's been 3 years since I was markass, and I've streamed with linneus 100 times
@@Murkusnew arc
What is blud doing here
@@aabattery5 linn's my good friend :)
i remember not knowing ANYTHING about how poffins worked and just feeding them to my guys because i wanted to interact with them so badly
LET ME PET THE SHARP PENGUIN
I wish pokemon Amie was there back then, but yeah I didn't care for stats either lol
Because he’s forever alone, he’s the only canonical Water/Steel-type.
@@tysondennis1016it's kinda surprising, water/steel sounds like a double type that a good bunch of pokemon would get
@@luckyinky7849yeah like on first glance dhelmise looks like a water/steel type
@@luckyinky7849 I've actually designed a Water/Steel-type for my fangame. It's one of the fourth Gym Leader (Water)'s team members.
I realize this is an extremely tiny thing, but I appreciate that the DPPt data is presented with the old-fashioned pixel font, while the BDSP uses the smoother modern font. Strange as it might sound, that sort of attention-to-detail is my jam. :V
You're the first person to mention the font thing (that I've seen)! It's very fun for me, so I appreciate that a lot. (The Berry Crush segment is also in the FRLG font, since that differs slightly from DPPt's.)
I have to admit i didnt noticed but kjow that i know im impressed and thanks for mutting this much effort in such a niche topic.
“Sorry you can only bring out cute Pokémon!”
I guess I’ll just have to walk around with my flaming silverback gorilla instead…😢
"Sorry Trainer, I'm afraid your Cleffa just isn't cute enough for Amity Park. Oh, but your Empoleon fits in perfectly with its adorable blade wings, of course!"
okay this is absolutely hilarious, like wym my absolutely adorable vulpix cannot go it but a uh *checks list* shroomish and drifloon can??? (shroomish and drifloon is still kinda cute to me but hu h)
in reality tho they probably just picked some pokemon with existing overworld sprites like drifloon, as its an overworld encounter, and used amity square as a test for walking pokemon in hgss
Don't think I've EVER seen what Berry Crush actually looked like until now.
The youtube comments, enthralled, spoke nearly as one; "Poffins pls"
And the Pokeblock man said; "Alriiiiight fine"
You know I sat here like "Wait a minute, doesn't HGSS have an adjacent mechanic for the Pokeathlon" but you can tell its been a while since that's Aprijuice and uses Apricorn and not berries. Thank god for that.
Aprijuice video would also be an interesting dive
I'm not sure even Linneus has the mental fortitude required to comprehend the horror that is Pokeathlon stats
@prexot2341 but if he can't do it, no one can!
@@NathanTruby And now he has!
The thing with the Amity square poffin smoothness being whack was hilarious I'm sorry I'm just imaging Linneus doing a "LET ME IN INN" impression to a game that's handing out nonsensical results. Like that 6 points thing just left me dead fr 💀
The Sheen level divisions are even weirder than you think here because the whole reason it caps at 255 is because it's an 8-bit system, which can only contain 256 integers (0-255, yes 0 is included). The natural thing to do would've been to divide it into 8 levels of 32, so who knows why they broke it up this way.
Hell you don't even need to use the full range, if you wanted you could have said "If sheen is over 100 the pokemon is full" and be done with it
@@Bluelink13it really should not even be called sheen in the first place
@Bluelink13 I wouldn't be surprised if Gamefreak was still holding on to thinking about the optimization needed for older games and systems. If you're already reserving a full 8-bit integer you may as well make use of it's entire range.
@@Yuzuki1337 which makes it kind of sad to see how poorly optimised future games would become (XY, ORAS, and (U)S(U)M make a little sense given that they probably had more issues with hardware optimisation than software optimisation, but the switch titles... I think I've made more optimised projects in Godot for playing around to learn the features of the system)
For the Poffin Case- I agree it was supposed to be a cheeky callback, but I don't think it's to the Bike Voucher! I actually think it's a callback to how you have to go find the Coin Case in Celadon by talking to some old man before you can actually play the games in the Game Corner!
Considering you get the bike voucher in the next town you go to and have to backtrack to the town with the bike to progress I’m not sure why he said it was a few towns over
I recall x&y having an in-depth crop crossbreeding system for berries that's never explained ingame and expected that at the end, but pokemon-amie is probably the more direct pokeblock equivalent of those games
I literally just discovered that a couple weeks ago and I can't remember the last time my mind was so blown by something I stumbled into in a Pokemon game.
I remember having a little journal I used to track berry crossbreedin like I was Gregor Mendel
There's crop crossbreeding?! I've played through X&Y at least 5 times and never realized that.
@@quinnfarris That's awesome.
It is explained insofar that the games tell you it can happen, it just doesn't tell you what combinations create which berries.
A few youtubers have gone into how some of these game mechanics work but they usually only do it as part of a larger video. I would love to see a series on digging deeper on how Pokémon game mechanics work.
Since the first time I saw the equations for calculating EV’s and IV’s on bulbapedia, I have always hoped someone would do that.
It’s a children’s game, until you look under the hood.
Forgot the amount of detail they go into, but the TH-camr "Lyra made a website" has made an entire Living Pokedex in the Gen 1 / 2 games and has gone over specific catching mechanics within those games. Good Videos if you haven't seen 'em.
@@ela-811they also just recently made a video about how Gen 1 Safari Zone actually works.
The answer, obviously is: It doesn't.
@@ela-811 I mean this in the nicest possible way but it took me exactly 5 days from getting Cyndaquil to having a full Living Dex in Pokemon: Crystal. That is an impressive feat but it isn't this impossibly huge task that nobody can accomplish.
I would love a speedboat and three large bags of money.
I simply cannot believe someone wrote out these stats, formulated this system, had it approved, and then proceeded to have it effect only one of the smallest, and most innocuous aspects of the game that MOST players genuinely just completely skip.
The funny part being that if this kind of stuff was in the first two generations, it would have been full of bugs because the devteam most likely did not understand how the code translated to reality either.
This guy out there on a quest to explain how every single molecule of Pokémon food works on a DNA level and I'm all in for the ride.
Pokeblocks and poffins are special foods, but I'm sure there is regular pokemon food. for sustenance.
To be fair, I understand why they thought the sidequest to catch the most powerful Pokémon in the entire series who was only accessible to people who bought tickets to a movie/physically went to a Toys R Us in a 1-week window needed to be simplified more than the inner workings of a side mode with nothing important locked behind it.
I mean, now that you put it like that, I am glad they went this route because the opposite basically punishes people for being born far away from either a Toys-R-Us or a participating cinema.
Yea, hospitals tend not to be next to toys-R-us
That's the thing, you can play contest and make poffins and be good enough to clear, you don't need to understand the inner workings of the system else we could also just comply about the battle system with the exact way damage is calculated, but we don't the azure flute excuse is stupid but this isn't exactly a good counter argument per se
@@toumabyakuya Not like that bothered them before, or since tbh
I was actually surprised to hear that there's still some undocumented stuff about the way bdsp works, as the game had a burst of interest around its release relating to the various ways the game could be broken, so I assumed the ins and outs would be pretty much figured out by now.
But I guess speedrunners wouldn't really have a reason to dig into the mechanics surrounding poffins.
they're too busy eating their ham sandwiches
Pretty much. As far as I can tell, Poffins and other niche data-things are the literal one thing people are not interessted in with BDSP. Unused stuff, glitches, enemy trainer changes? Yep, everything accounted for.
@@lpfan4491 I remember reading about people who datamined the Battle Tower trainer EVs and shit like week 1 lmao
to be fair, 90% of the code was copy pasted, hell mods for dp worked when just ported in with no work
@@shinyrayquaza9”ported in” and “no work” are not compatible terms lmao there still needed to be work done
I like how all of your torterras have sun glasses for no reason
They're just cool like that 😭
I always thought it was weird how in the minigame the end result is a flat and round pancake but in every other depiction the poffin is a puffy lemon shaped bun.
29:19 Linneus bakes worst poffin ever, asked to leave Amity Square
HGSS have a couple mechanics that would have been worth noting here: the the haircut brothers in the Goldenrod underground, and Daisy in Pallet Town, can give your Pokemon a treatment that's equivalent to various levels of Dry Poffin (and, true to the feeding formula, if your Pokemon is already maxed out, these will have no effect).
This mainly exists so that HGSS players can evolve their own Feebas without trading, but because the single-player poffins you can make with the one-berry limit you get in DP are so terrible (which forced them to add the buyables in Platinum and putting in multiple berries yourself in BDSP so that players looking for contest stats wouldn't have quite as miserable a time), these haircuts and massages are more efficient against the feed limit than any of these one-berry Poffins.
Imagine if they had to make you get two Beldum to get Metang, then two Metang to get Metagross.
Would be cool, Same with Diglett and Magneton
Capture 108 spirits to get Spiritomb
it'd be impossible in rs without trading. or even then impossible with trading and 8 playthroughs of the game until frlg with ditto.
@@Diwasho That's already a thing in PLA.
Doesn’t Beldum have the catch rate of a legendary? That would make it even harder to evolve this way. It would still be a cool way tho
poffins are probably my favorite contest feature from Pokémon-- i named one of my cats Poffin because I had so much fun making them alone and with friends growing up! I can't waaaait for this video after loving the pokeblock one!!!
That is so freaking cute ❤🐱
omg poffin is such a cute name
omg arlie!!! i love your youtube videos so funny to see you in the comments!!
You know you're now contractually obliged to make a video about Aprijuice (and maybe the Pokéthlon in general)
Love how in-depth your videos are, they're incredibly interesting and thorough
Hey so I've got excellent news
10/10 video can’t wait for Linn to release part 3 and then for GameFreak to add another Pokéblock varient to the next generation
Part 3, in which you actually get to kill an old man. No, really, wait for it.
@@sadisticmystictoo many pokéblock adjacents
That would require GameFreak to put effort and we know that ain't happening anymore
@@supermaster2012 nah, reusing mechanics is what they do best
After the Pokepuff Episode, we need to cover Poke Beans. And then we might as well dive into Curry and Sandwich mechanics
Man, this stuff makes even the Azure Flute look simple!
I think there being no official Pokeball Pez dispensers is a huge missed opportunity
They could just make pokeblock dispensers and some decent candy, and it'd probably sell like hotcakes.
@@PhoenicopterusRGiven the look of Pokeblocks, just load em up with starburst, legally distinct or otherwise
@1stCallipostle hell they couldve made it just terrible chalk candy or marshmallows and it would sell
Fun fact: Poffins are actually just muffins, or rather muffin tops!
Also, BDSP is just DP but translated into Unity code-wise, explaining the Amity Square limitation.
That really doesn’t explain anything at all, because they could have still made quality of life changes, which they did in some small areas.
The real reason would be - if what I’ve heard is true, that GAMEFREAK told the DP remake devs to make a 1:1 remake when the devs presented GAMEFREAK with plans for a more current gen visual take on the games, and it’s assumed that is because it would have blown Legends Asseus out of the water.
@@hansmoleman2666 It's more that they likely didn't have the time or resources to work on a full-blown remake, plus this was ILCA's first time doing more than just a mobile game.
@@celarts5752 My sibling under the heaven, TPC doesn't get the excuse of "resources". They're the most valuable entertainment IP in the world
@@hansmoleman2666"They didn't want BDSP to be better than Game Freak's Arceus." LOL. What bullshit cope. ILCA didn't know what they were doing and you know it. Nobody wanted to work on the remake so The Pokemon Company got the people who can barely make mobile apps to do it for them. All ILCA did was copy 95% of the original game and they could barely do that right.
it wouldn't have been that much work. the bulk of the work is literally already done; any pokemon can follow you in the overworld.
them deciding to keep the limitation is pointless and unnecessary. i promise rewriting the code for the underground stuff took 100x as many man hours as this change would have taken :P
0:33 castle bravo scientists when their five megaton warhead turns into a 15 megaton explosion
something about you saying "they are not real!" in that tone of voice makes me laugh out loud every time (also Ive been having so much fun watching your deep dives thank you for making these!!)
its a testiment to how little interest bdsp generated in me that as a based sylveon enjoyer i didnt even realize sylveon wasnt in the game
Virgin BDSP not adding Pokemon past original DPP
Beyond based ORAS having literally everything available up until that point, including new megas and infinite availability for Deoxys and Regigigas
made a poffin today.............. effervescent
You forgot to mention that you can easily raise beauty by grooming your Pokémon from either the haircut brothers or Blue's sister in HG/SS
Is it only beauty?
31:00
Ok. I have a theory. It’s obviously not linear so I think there are 2 things which influence your bonus.
Your party’s total happiness is used to generate a value from 1-6. Then a bonus is applied based on how many members of your party have max friendship. 2 max friendship = 1 point.
This explains you getting 7 points from 1275 friendship. The number gave you 5, then you got a bonus for 5 Pokémon at max which was 2, so 7. That also explains you getting 6 from the 253/254 Vaporeons. Your happiness was in the 6 range (as expected for it being so high) but you got no bonuses because none of your Pokémon were maxed.
I love me some deep dives into obscure and forgotten Pokémon berry mechanics. Thanks Pokeblock man
I love how there's a solid content market in making comprehensive videos on mechanics in Pokémon games that most people either don't care too much for, or just never realizsd existed (especially in how complex they are).
Pokepuffs need their own video!? Now this was an unexpected twist!
I'm not sure whether it was your lovely voice or the absurdness of the Pokéblock's implementation that captured my full attention and subsequent subscription on the first video, but I'm sure I'll have no better luck figuring it out this video either.
I have a hunch, for the friendship score, that it's derived from basically taking each friendship value, dividing it by 170, and rounding down. Between what you've shown and some preliminary testing, that seems to hold up.
Even outside the generation that spawned it, sheen continues to be frustrating lmao
On the point brought up at the end, I will always be thankful to the Dream World for allowing me to obtain an Arceus for pretty much no effort, truly a product of the time.
Man, I can't believe people are rising Dream World out of its slumber and I can't wait to use it for the first time.
a little poffin video, as a treat
🗣I LOVE VIDEO ESSAYS ABOUT NEEDLESSLY COMPLEX POKEMON MECHANICS‼️‼️
I will have to rewatch this video not at midnight because it’s literally keeping me up at night with concern once you got to Amity square and 6 torterra
27:35 I would suggest grabbing a pokemon with 1 extra friendship point, just in case there's some weird off-by-one rounding error and you need to be strictly above the friendship total to get the bonus. That could be why you can only get 9 points, not 10, but also if the limit was 153 instead of 170, you should be getting the first point with your 170-friendship torterra, so...
I guess I should just watch on
28:13 yeah! like that! okay maybe I should just shut up and watch!
Huge shoutout to SadisticMystic, he's really damn good at breaking down the game. Glad he's still around.
He's also written one of my favorite Nuzlockes of all time, his only one.
I think that part of the problem with the math at 13:31 is one of a common miscommunication. Ive had to teach a lot of people that "People start counting at 1, programmers start counting at 0"
Someone without a programming background probably designed this table. And when tasked with splitting a 256 value range from 0 to 12 stars, came up with this list, thinking the values were 1 to 256. 1-21, 22-42, 43-63 and so on, up to 235-255, and a 12-star 256! And then someone clears their throat and corrects him, 0-255. Three eraser marks later and 1 becomes 0, 255 becomes 254, and 256 becomes 255.
Now I really want to know how exactly other food mecanics on pokemon work, especially the sandwiches on sv, because it seems that the powers you get are determinated by certain stats or just are assigned to certain foods
Now I'm imagining your videos as though in the pokemon universe it's like a cooking show where you explain the complexities of different pokefoods and I'm having the best time
In Japan they actually made PokéBlock candy and dispensers that looked just like ingame.
FYI, powder yields grow quadratically with the number of players, not exponentially.
Great video! Thank you for going the extra mile to research these topics, even going so far as to perform your own experiments.
While not as complicated as Pokélocks or Poffins, I hope you eventually cover the Juice Shoppe in XY, perhaps as part of an exploration of the depth of growing berries in XY.
32:00 I might have a clue on what the teamwork score is. In Sword and Shield, there was something that worked like it for determining if a wild Pokémon appears in camps based on how much your team liked each other. I don’t know much personally, but if anyone wants to look into it I bet the curry hunting community has some kind of resource on it (the place I first heard of it). I wouldn’t be surprised if they reworked the mechanic into BDSP
Hmmm, since BDSP doesn't use SwSh's engine (it's actually Platinum under the hood with a new graphics engine, which is why the modding community was able to get set up so quickly), I'm honestly unsure if this corporate obligation game would have a hidden mechanic like that implemented. If it was a normal remake, I'd agree this had to be the case.
@@AbsolXGuardian *"I'm honestly unsure if this corporate obligation game"*
Dude that was just plain rude.
@@AbsolXGuardian That’s an interesting point to bring up. I think in most circumstances I’d agree you, but I think it makes some sense here. They specifically added a place to make poffins there, which considering Pokémon surround it and it’s in the same generation, it could mean it’s trying to that game’s version of curry. If it is then it would be reasonable to implement that mechanic as it related to its (potential) inspiration. Would also explain the weirdness at 30:23 if they were testing with the Torterra team a lot more then the Vaporeon team to build up that score. (which would be the case assuming no Vaporeon testing got cut from the video). Maybe I am giving BDSP too much credit, but I don’t think it’s too far-fetched of an idea.
Oh no, the corporation might have its feelings hurt /sarcasm
@@lilylopnco Sounds like you are the kind of person that only cares about yourself and nobody else.
I can’t express how much I enjoy this style of content, AND the way you make it so entertaining. Can’t wait for more!
Why am I even here. Why am I watching these? I don't care about Pokéblocks or Poffins. Yet I watched both videos and I am willing to watch a third one. Help.
Can we talk about how the dry Poffin is literally a Pipis?
yea
Spamton Deltarune plagiarized Pokemon??????
Have you considered doing Research streams? I think it would be really entertaining watching you try to understand how all this stuff fits together, watching the BDSP experiments, ect.
it would also allow for collaboration! viewers might think of something new to try
Man, I love seeing small channels dive into just the right thing and gain the bigger following they've earned! The work you're putting into these videos is wonderful.
You only have a few videos out but you are already one of my favorite poketubers! There's nothing I love more than going into insane detail in these games
I'll be happy to add this to the list of videos that help me understand old Pokemon mechanics
"A Vaporeon. With 0 happiness"
MY LUNGS--
" I then proceeded to splash all over her face- "
Me too, buddy. Me too . . .
I'd say the Poffin Case is more like the Game Corner Coin Case, which was also a few buildings down/away from the game corner
Appreciate the use of Enzo and Drive for the bg music! Also I looooooved this mechanic growing up and just throwing random pet food at my Pokémon. Was a fun time. I miss my Staraptor that carried me through all the master rank cups tho :(
This man's reluctant to talk about Vaporeon whilst being called Sexica and having Pokémon named Lustula
Your videos are so detailed, can't imagine what work goes into them!
I love the pokeblock video, can't wait for this one
i am,, SO excited for the next video. despite having watched the anime and many of the movies, i never knew pokemon was a game growing up, so i started in high school with gen 6. i feel like nobody ever talks about kalos, and i'm STOKED to discover there's so much i didn't know about pokepuffs that it exceeded the scope of this video. i am very much looking forward to another one of these deep dives, i've loved every one so far :)
I'm surprised you didn't go into depth about Pokéathalon stats (even if they don't involve berries, though maybe they do, I forget), or PokéStar Studios, since those are contest-adjacent.
there aren't really any deeper mechanics to pokestar studios (or musicals) but the pokeathlon and its apricorn juice could be explored
The thing about the friendship and poffins, I think I have a working theory from the numbers you pulled off. So you can get a max reduction of 9 smoothness with 6 max friendship pokemons. You would assume that it is 1.5 per mon, however, the 5 torterra gave you 7 which should have been 8 alright. What I think is how it works, is that every pokemon, when their friend ship reaches a certain threshhold, it reduces smoothness by 1. AND if you have max friendship with 2 pokemons, you get a reduction of smoothness by 1 again. So having 5 max friendship torterras will give you 7 reduction when using this criteria while having 6 vaporeons with a little under max friendship gives only 6 reduction. So the max happiness overall isn't the key but rather whether the friendship is above a certain number and whether the friendship is maxed per 2 mons. This would make sense.
Okay but why is nobody talking about the hilarious text on the end screen?
Minigame affects Poffin level and stat boost if you include the rarest berries.
You are out right INSANE once again for this shit. I love seeing you go so in-depth over these stupid mechanics, it goes so hard! I learned a lot from watching this too.
Just finished watching this video and the Pokeblock one, and all the complex math suddenly manifested an Azure Flute in my copy of Crystal.
Man that Vaporeon must be scarred by the number 34 by now 💀
39:46 Hey mum, look! I'm famous! ^_^
Seriously, thanks. Never thought anyone would answer that.
It's really weird that I was watching this video only to suddenly hear your name spoken aloud and realize "Hey- I know that name! And I HAVE seen this before, why am I watching it twice?!"
i am loving your pokemon's names :D they remind me of my own and i am thrilled
This video was really cool! Even if you didnt come to a solid conclusion, your attempts at BDSP research are admirable.
16:30 poffins in GO are SO disappointing omg. Like yeah they're useful to a ridiculous extent but it's almost offensive that it's hard to get them forfree. You can't make them. Even though the berries in the game didn't have an effect in the series until GO existed and Niantic INVENTED their effects. Like all the stuff is there. Just let us make them! Like could you imagine getting together with friends after a Raid Hour and spending a few minutes making poffins together? There could even be unique poffins just like the real deal in the main games, maybe some could make the buddy bring you a bigger bounty of gifts, or maybe put a special status on the buddy so it can gather resources, depending on the type of poffin. I'd love a poffin that gives buddy hearts while earning extra Stardust, for example! Like they really need to give a way to justify the fucking things being "worth" one whole ass dollar. Buddy hearts are nice but I want to have my buddy be made unique by the kind of poffins I give it! They could even implement the Bluk berry that's been hidden in the files since 2016 for this!
But no. All we get is one boring premium item that makes your buddy take one less day to max out. That's it. nothing else.
I wonder if the sheen division levels was just a mistake in... well... division.
You've got levels 3, 6, and 9 have 22 numbers, but also zero.
They were going for 12 total sheen levels, and knew they wanted to split them roughly evenly. They probably also knew how many needed to have 22 levels to add up properly in the end, like you did(three).
So, since they knew they wanted the breaks every three levels, they probably used a common mathematical function in programming for easily dividing something and using the remainder - modulo.
(As stated, taking the modulus of a number and a divisor returns the _remainder_ of a division calculation, rather than the quotient. It's an easy way to group things up into a previously known set of groups. For example, take any number by modulo 4, and you'll get values 0, 1, 2, or 3. (Zero means no remainder, as in the number is evenly divisible by the divisor. 10 mod 4 is 2, since 4 goes into 10 two times(8) with a remainder of 2. 12 mod 4 is zero, since 4 goes into 12 exactly 3 times.) This means that whatever your input, you can split it up into four groups.)
So, they did exactly that. For each sheen level, if it was divisible by three(mod 3 = 0), then they made it have 22 values instead of 21.
Problem is, zero modulo any number is also zero. So you take the full set of levels, run them against mod 3, and you get 0, 3, 6, 9, and 12, but by then, you've already used all the levels.
They probably intended to just have 3, 6, and 9, but the 0 slipped in there because of how modulo works.
I just discovered your channel, and as someone who enjoys videos like this while I veg out, I have to say I am a huge fan of how you deliver your content!
I don't know if I'm hyped up on coffee or something but you are now my favourite youtuber holy crap, this video series has been perhaps one of my favourite ever
hehe, loved how you changed the font you used for each game in the video! awesome little detail
Watched the first video on this, was curious if I wanted to stick around...
I subbed after "So let's talk first talk about the how Catch and Escape Factors" I can't breathe from laughing.
Good humor, and complicated topics.
I think I'm in good company.
New gen 10 evolution idea!
Place your eevee inside a coffin shake it violently throw your console into a graveyard then dig it up and use spirit shackle 20 times in one battle without fainting any Pokémon besides your eevee now you have skelleon a ghost poison type
13:45
The upper bounds for the ranges are actually exactly given by
floor((stars+1)*255 / 12) with an extra special case for 12 stars.
However, the game obviously converts gleen to stars, and that formula would be exactly floor(4 * gleen / 85), no special cases required.
0:20 what a fabulous mane
These hour long super obscure pokemon videos keep me sane at night
Dam dude, your last couple of videos have been incredible, I'm so glad you popped up in my recommended feed.
Excellent!
I cannot for the life of me make poffins in BDSP. They want you to spin that stick way, way too fast.
My hypothesis: you mixed up friendship and affection 🤪
Love your casual style, reminds me of a professor giving a seminar lmao. Great stuff!
You mentioned the Lilycove Lottery which got me thinking about all the vague and unexplained mechanics behind the various gambling events throughout the series... It would be interesting to see a video about that at some point.
I don't have BDSP so I can't really try it out but, couple of possible tests:
1. 6x 0 friendship pokemon to test for how the number of pokemon affect the reduction
2: Repeating similar tests the moment you gain access to Amity square vs a 100% save file to see if there are other variables that might affect the reduction
oh my god the dream world??? I played the hell out of this game and I completely forgot about it for YEARS until you mentioned it just now
Honestly, the mechanics of the poke blocks and poffins is so complicated I'm not even paying attention. I'm just here for your voice, cadence and dry ass humor. I'd listen to you reciting 2008 federal tax code (which is probably less convoluted than pokeblock/poffins mechanics)
What about apricorn juice in HGSS?
Also, great video! Thanks for doing the nitty gritty and trying to figure out these game mechanics. It's fascinating stuff!
So at 13:39 what I noticed is that all of the lines are evenly split, 3 to a tier. They are all 64 away from each other which doesn't work for 192 because 256 is outside of the scope. It also looks like this was supposed to be a total out of 256, not 255, which when divided by 12 gives 21.33333....... which makes some sense I think, the last point was just given a special layer to show "hey, you're all done" which also makes a lot of sense. So that's where the weirdness in the numbers comes from.
Making poffins was so fun to me as a kid. As an adult? Kinda frustrating at times? The not spilling it is the obvious frustration, but then you have the stir direction flipping and it burning the moment it stops while you're rapidly trying to spin it in the opposite direction
2:50 lol, it went from the, “oops I made a mistake, gonna leave that in” that we expected to a “lmao i had a stroke”
With regard to pressing-power in Berry Crush: I think it makes sense that pressing power is determined by how much of the time you had the A button pressed. If you press a button harder, the difference that the system notices is that the signal from that button lasted longer. (This is used in some platformers as a way the player can control jump height; press the button harder, you keep going up for longer.) If you're pushing the buttons harder, their signals will be active for longer. Pressing power is a silly thing to measure, but they chose a good way to estimate it.