Thank you for watching. If you enjoyed this video, please click the "like" button and subscribe to our channel here on TH-cam. When you do, you’ll help get the word out to your fellow cyclists and motivate me to keep bringing you these independent reviews. -- Steve You can order the SRAM Force AXS and competitive Shimano Ultegra Di2 and GRX groupsets using these links to stores I’ve vetted and recommend. When you do, In The Know Cycling may earn a commission that helps cover our review and technology costs. SRAM FORCE AXS BTD (BikeTiresDirect) - tinyurl.com/4ee2sw6u Performance Bike - snp.link/98e7d768 Merlin Cycles - prf.hn/l/A3xZnVO SHIMANO ULTEGRA Di2 BTD (BikeTiresDirect) - tinyurl.com/yc59syyt Performance Bike - snp.link/48b639ed Merlin Cycles - prf.hn/l/GlRPwqz Sigma Sports - tinyurl.com/nhpf33f3 SHIMANO GRX Performance Bike - snp.link/a0d69379 Merlin Cycles - prf.hn/l/8xQq2JJ
I don't recall where, but I've heard the slower shifting is down to the shift logic--there's a built-in delay while the system waits to see if you're shifting front or rear. Consequently, 1x AXS builds have faster shifting than 2x. Thanks for the review!
Outstanding! I agree on all points, FWIW. Haven’t had the gurgling (that’s kind of disturbing). One big downside that I think has gotten “fixed” has been Force AXS’s unreliable front shifting. Early units just wouldn’t work well with certain frames (could be the wedge device they use, tube shapes, who knows?) and you would often see people drop chains at events or group rides. The gear range, ratios, clutch, and shifting logic can’t be understated. Neither can the Quarq power meter (one of the few pieces of gear that has always worked for me first time, every time). Shimano remains stuck in tradition, at least for their road groups, and their power meters are an embarrassment. Truth be told, the new road 12-speed improved brake rub, gave us 11-34t cassettes, and impressively fast front shifting, but I was very underwhelmed. I actually think I prefer 11-speed Di2 (minus the crank arm delamination issue). Broadly, SRAM seems to get 99.9% of riders and seems to make it work well enough for the 0.1% (see Jumbo Visma).
OMG others who have the gurgling issue. Mine sounded like a Turkey gobbling. I ended up changing the calipers to Hope RS4's which stopped it and looked a lot better. Had my Stayer Cycles Groadinger UG for about 18 months now. 1x set up. An issue I get with the rear derailleur mostly after being fully charged is I'll go to change up to bigger cogs ( usually just before a climb) and it makes a sort of beeping noise and doesn't do anything. Usually a few seconds later it then goes down a cog or two. I've got used to it now as it doesn't happen all the time.
My gravel bike has SRAM Force shifters and a wide Force Crankset but in the rear the bike has a UDH so I got a direct mount Transmission rear derailleur to go along with a 10-52 mtb cassette. The sacrifice in shifting speed has been made up for by the fact that I can shift up or down without a care in the world because the shifting performance improves when you pedal harder through the shift. It has been my first experience with a 1x and even though you get larger jumps in gear cogs, I do appreciate only having to worry about the up and down shifting. I also have the braking experience you do under heavy braking, and it may be a result of the brake pad material. I'm going to experiment with some different pad types to see if there is a change.
Love the fast shifting and the handle bars on the Shimano Ultegra Di2 12 speed and have it on all my road/gravel bikes. SRAM is great too, but for fast shifting - if you need it - I agree Shimano is just that faster. Also shifting under load is amazing.
I have been enjoying your impressively extensive web reviews of products for a while now, so thank you very much for that! As far as shifting delays go vs Shimano, it is something I have barely noticed. In terms of real time is it maybe a 10th of a second difference? I go back-and-forth between my Shimano road bike and my SRAM gravel bike, and the difference never draws attention to itself. (NOTE: gravel bike has rear derailleur only so I cannot comment on front derailleur differences.)
At last , someone who cuts to the chase - I'm not interested in the paint job, graphics etc , or the specs which I can get from their website , so to see a real world riding test is what I want , many thanks .
I hope you're right. I've had the bike back in the shop several times and had many conversations with the service manager about the pulsing which finally went away on its own. Perhaps like many cycling enthusiasts, not anxious to start the process again about the gurgling and just deal with it hoping it will go away at some point as well.
Thank you! I super-appreciate these reviews, Steve. The quality of this particular video is questionable though; you may want to check your video-quality settings on your GoPro or whatever camera you're using. The video seems to be very compressed/low-resolution, and the selfie-perspective videos have a really weird green-screen type effect between you and the background, making those clips look fake.
Thanks! Photography isn't my strong suit so I welcome your feedback. I notice the stuff you mention too but guess I'm more focused on the review I'm trying to share. I'll work on improving both.
I'm not crazy! I've been trying to describe the water sloshing / gurgling sound from braking hard on my Force AXS to friends but no one can hear it. Any idea what it is? My mechanic guessed it might just be the sealant in the rim, but it really doesn't sound like it.
Or perhaps we're both crazy😀Pretty sure it's not sealant as I only hear it on the front brake regardless of the wheels I have on my gravel bike and never hear it (or have seen anyone report it) on other bikes with SRAM or Shimano brake systems. I'm thinking it's probably something with the hydraulic fluid or air in the lines that will work itself out over time the same way the pulsing did. I've taken the bike back to the shop on other issues and will ask them to look at this one next time I'm in but have tired of all the back and forth.
Thank you for watching. If you enjoyed this video, please click the "like" button and subscribe to our channel here on TH-cam.
When you do, you’ll help get the word out to your fellow cyclists and motivate me to keep bringing you these independent reviews.
-- Steve
You can order the SRAM Force AXS and competitive Shimano Ultegra Di2 and GRX groupsets using these links to stores I’ve vetted and recommend. When you do, In The Know Cycling may earn a commission that helps cover our review and technology costs.
SRAM FORCE AXS
BTD (BikeTiresDirect) - tinyurl.com/4ee2sw6u
Performance Bike - snp.link/98e7d768
Merlin Cycles - prf.hn/l/A3xZnVO
SHIMANO ULTEGRA Di2
BTD (BikeTiresDirect) - tinyurl.com/yc59syyt
Performance Bike - snp.link/48b639ed
Merlin Cycles - prf.hn/l/GlRPwqz
Sigma Sports - tinyurl.com/nhpf33f3
SHIMANO GRX
Performance Bike - snp.link/a0d69379
Merlin Cycles - prf.hn/l/8xQq2JJ
Forget about the Force. What are the specs on your hair???? I want THAT!!!!
I've got Rival AXS and have exactly the same issues, shifting isn't as fast as mechanical and I have the strange gurgling noise too.
I don't recall where, but I've heard the slower shifting is down to the shift logic--there's a built-in delay while the system waits to see if you're shifting front or rear. Consequently, 1x AXS builds have faster shifting than 2x. Thanks for the review!
Outstanding! I agree on all points, FWIW. Haven’t had the gurgling (that’s kind of disturbing). One big downside that I think has gotten “fixed” has been Force AXS’s unreliable front shifting. Early units just wouldn’t work well with certain frames (could be the wedge device they use, tube shapes, who knows?) and you would often see people drop chains at events or group rides. The gear range, ratios, clutch, and shifting logic can’t be understated. Neither can the Quarq power meter (one of the few pieces of gear that has always worked for me first time, every time). Shimano remains stuck in tradition, at least for their road groups, and their power meters are an embarrassment. Truth be told, the new road 12-speed improved brake rub, gave us 11-34t cassettes, and impressively fast front shifting, but I was very underwhelmed. I actually think I prefer 11-speed Di2 (minus the crank arm delamination issue). Broadly, SRAM seems to get 99.9% of riders and seems to make it work well enough for the 0.1% (see Jumbo Visma).
OMG others who have the gurgling issue. Mine sounded like a Turkey gobbling. I ended up changing the calipers to Hope RS4's which stopped it and looked a lot better. Had my Stayer Cycles Groadinger UG for about 18 months now. 1x set up. An issue I get with the rear derailleur mostly after being fully charged is I'll go to change up to bigger cogs ( usually just before a climb) and it makes a sort of beeping noise and doesn't do anything. Usually a few seconds later it then goes down a cog or two. I've got used to it now as it doesn't happen all the time.
My gravel bike has SRAM Force shifters and a wide Force Crankset but in the rear the bike has a UDH so I got a direct mount Transmission rear derailleur to go along with a 10-52 mtb cassette. The sacrifice in shifting speed has been made up for by the fact that I can shift up or down without a care in the world because the shifting performance improves when you pedal harder through the shift. It has been my first experience with a 1x and even though you get larger jumps in gear cogs, I do appreciate only having to worry about the up and down shifting.
I also have the braking experience you do under heavy braking, and it may be a result of the brake pad material. I'm going to experiment with some different pad types to see if there is a change.
Love the fast shifting and the handle bars on the Shimano Ultegra Di2 12 speed and have it on all my road/gravel bikes. SRAM is great too, but for fast shifting - if you need it - I agree Shimano is just that faster. Also shifting under load is amazing.
Great video. For my gravel I got grx full bike. But I ordered axs wide during covid. A week after I order a complete bike. The wide showed up
Appreciate the pragmatic feedback you provide. It truly validates the subtle differences between the groupset brand focuses and strengths/weaknesses.
Thanks for your feedback.
Very informative, thanks. SRAM's doing a lot of great things, but their brake technology seems to need some more finessing
Nice review! I recomend Galfer disc rotors and pads if you can get hands on it. Much more consistent braking with Sram brakes for me.
I have been enjoying your impressively extensive web reviews of products for a while now, so thank you very much for that! As far as shifting delays go vs Shimano, it is something I have barely noticed. In terms of real time is it maybe a 10th of a second difference? I go back-and-forth between my Shimano road bike and my SRAM gravel bike, and the difference never draws attention to itself. (NOTE: gravel bike has rear derailleur only so I cannot comment on front derailleur differences.)
At last , someone who cuts to the chase - I'm not interested in the paint job, graphics etc , or the specs which I can get from their website , so to see a real world riding test is what I want , many thanks .
Don't know where you got that bogus chart at time 7:59. You can get SRAM AXS in Rim Brake...
great review. I feel Sram has better braking and there is problem in your brakes that still needs fixing
I hope you're right. I've had the bike back in the shop several times and had many conversations with the service manager about the pulsing which finally went away on its own. Perhaps like many cycling enthusiasts, not anxious to start the process again about the gurgling and just deal with it hoping it will go away at some point as well.
@@intheknowcycling It's definitely a think, search for SRAM 'turkey noise'
Better braking than what? Shimano braking is far better than Sram. Love everything else about Sram though.
NO ,sram braking seems better than shimano . Because sram use Dot5.1 but shimano uses the mineral oil
Thank you! I super-appreciate these reviews, Steve. The quality of this particular video is questionable though; you may want to check your video-quality settings on your GoPro or whatever camera you're using. The video seems to be very compressed/low-resolution, and the selfie-perspective videos have a really weird green-screen type effect between you and the background, making those clips look fake.
Thanks! Photography isn't my strong suit so I welcome your feedback. I notice the stuff you mention too but guess I'm more focused on the review I'm trying to share. I'll work on improving both.
I'm not crazy! I've been trying to describe the water sloshing / gurgling sound from braking hard on my Force AXS to friends but no one can hear it. Any idea what it is? My mechanic guessed it might just be the sealant in the rim, but it really doesn't sound like it.
Or perhaps we're both crazy😀Pretty sure it's not sealant as I only hear it on the front brake regardless of the wheels I have on my gravel bike and never hear it (or have seen anyone report it) on other bikes with SRAM or Shimano brake systems. I'm thinking it's probably something with the hydraulic fluid or air in the lines that will work itself out over time the same way the pulsing did. I've taken the bike back to the shop on other issues and will ask them to look at this one next time I'm in but have tired of all the back and forth.
I get that too! i had assumed it was heat related warping of the rotor or something, or the rotor slipping through the caliper and catching again