B0XX and Frame1 Review/Comparison
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- Wow, that took more time than I thought it would haha, I have gained even more appreciation for the good hardware review channels out there.
Hope you all enjoy the vid!
If you have any questions feel free to leave them in the comments, or message me on Discord. I'll be responding more slowly until December 26th or so as I'll be with my parents for Christmas.
Take care, and happy holidays!
HaTaa's force curves: chart-studio.p...
My force curves: www.craneslab....
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / crane1195
I set up a donation link for people who appreciate the video and wish to donate. Donations are greatly appreciated, but are far from necessary:
www.paypal.com... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Bro this review was so insanely in-depth lmao
That’s such an understatement. Less than 5 min in the video he pulls out an Excel analysis with simulations on the lifespan of the buttons lol
Lmaooooo
The fuck do you expect
Everybody already said it a dozen times, but holy fuck I watched the whole 30 minutes because this review goes above and beyond. I play melee on a mechanical keyboard and definitely eyed the frame1 when I saw its release, and now seeing more of the nuts and bolts has me convinced I need one. Thank you Mr. Keyboard Wizard for your work in showing everything in such a cool, matter-of-fact data spree. It seriously helps
You've earned the title -- Gamers Nexus of Smash Bros
I love GN, they definitely inspired me in wanting to collect data and whatnot to try and explain myself haha.
I don't play melee, I don't play any fighting games besides rivals of aether and i certainly don't plan on getting a box, but the sheer amount of effort and thought into this review is incredible, and certainly appreciated even by someone who understands none of it.
Legendary video. Instantly donated
P.s. thanks for helping me with my ghettobox today. Youre the goat
IT'S A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE
Wow, I ordered a B0XX a few days ago, but this video has completely changed my mind. Just cancelled my order for the B0XX and bought a Frame1 Heavy, (which apparently is shipping sometime in Jan compared to the B0XX which is set to ship in Feb) Thank you for this very objective informative review! :)
It's funny now the BOXX is the only one of these smash arcade boards that can actually be bought. Frame1 has been out of stock for a pretty long time.
oh no no no
@@AL-lh2ht B0XX stepped it up too, they have MX switch options and Matte options now, I wanted a Frame1 but it's just never available for pre-order
Do you have your frame1?
@@magicbread8111Probably doesn't their customer service is terrible
this video just confirms to me that anyone who knows keyboard switches will have an appropriate eye for quality
good shit homie
Informative & unbiased, couldn't ask for more. Thank you.
I just ordered a Frame1 Light earlier this week and I'm super excited for it. After seeing this my current questions/concerns were pretty silenced, especially since I was considering doing DIY before I decided to order this. Thanks for the video.
How long is shipping?
@@jadelag If I remember correctly, Greg said that the controllers would ship out roughly around late January or so, give or take some time with delays. I'd check the website and/or the Discord for more info. I don't know how long it's going to take once it's shipped.
This is an amazing video! As a keyboard enthusiast myself, I super appreciated all the switch comparisons! I've replaced all my arcade stick buttons and Hitbox buttons with Gamer Finger buttons so the Frame1 was an immediate attraction for me. Also, all your tests were amazing!! This is one of the most informative videos I've ever seen on a video game controller. I didn't really notice all the editing things you mentioned in the beginning because of how good the video content was :D
Definitely picking up a Frame1 when I can thanks to you
Thanks a bunch! Glad the noobish editing wasn't too noticable haha
this guy just comes in and drops a banger video with nothing else on his channel lol
Haha I mostly post stuff on github/discord, but I figured a video would suit this information best. I do have a few plans for other videos though, like DIY tutorials and other reviews
@@CranesLab well, you’ve got my sub. i’m excited to see them!
This video is fucking crazy in-depth holy shit. Good job brother
THIS is an insanely thorough review. Great watch
I was just thinking about buying a box style controller to try and this couldn't have come at a better time. Thank you so much, wonderful work.
It's funny now the BOXX is the only one of these smash arcade boards that can actually be bought. Frame1 has been out of stock for a pretty long time.
holy shit. this review deserves award or trophy or something. this is the most in-depth informative review for anything i’ve ever seen
Wasn't sure about my Frame1 Light before this vid, but was convinced after it. And luckily I bought it when I did because shit is SOLD OUTTT.
Thanks crane!
no prob haha
thanks for this review! I have been real curious about the Frame1 box
Thanks so much for this elaborate review! Not only useful, but also massively informative and interesting :]
I had already ordered the Frame1 light but I am happy to hear that it is so solid, especially since I considered a B0XX before. Seems like the best starter of the 3 for sure! Now even more excited about getting it in the mail ^^
insane quality here. love this review. i can tell you have alot of passion for these controllers. the way you can articulate feelings and textures is masterful.
preach brother, prech
also do more reviews of things. idc what it is ill watch it
The kind of person who buys a force curve measuring tool is the kind of person I want to be friends with
This is a great video! I am totally inexperienced with all of this stuff so thank you for going above and beyond with walking me through all the questions I had going into this review. If I do decide to purchase a controller alternative to a GCC, it will be the frame 1 over the b0xx. Thanks again!
deserves more than 4.5k views. hope after ppl start talking about it more after ppl get their hands on them they come to your video first. ur great!
I have a F1 light on the way with blue buttons, it's really cool to see what how it's gonna look! Very good video! keep it coming Crane!
This review is extremely in-depth. Down to showing the calculations for the presses. I was just interested when i saw this come up in my recommended and i saw the best review for something i have no intentions on buying. I was throughly interested throughout lol. Thank you. Keep it up. :)
Glad you liked it! I never expected it to be randomly recommended, much less interesting for those who weren't already into these types of controllers.
I'll try to improve the video production value in my upcoming projects, because the echo/lighting in this video annoys me to no end lmao.
This video is ridiculously good; one of the most technical/in depth review videos I've seen in general.
One thing I wanted to bring up is that there might be other considerations for using Sanwa buttons over mechanical keyboard switches for fighting game controllers (other than just following tradition/trying to match arcade cabinets). Given that mechanical switches are cheaper, more durable, and can require less actuation force, it seems like they'd be a no brainer for any fight stick maker, but they're pretty uncommon at the moment.
I'm not very familiar with arcade button switches, but after doing some digging around, I've seen actuation distance/high release force cited as reasons for using them over mechanical keyboard switches (consistent with the findings in this video), and things like allowing double-tapping. It might be worth discussing with a fight stick maker (Hit Box etc) - there's probably reasons they're opting for Sanwa buttons over mechanical keyboard switches since at face value it seems like they'd save a lot of money and make their controllers more durable by using mechanical keyboard switches.
Kailh/cherry silvers are pretty close in force levels and actuation distance to sanwas.
If you go optical, there are optical silvers which would be similar force levels and actuation distance. And there's the option of optical yellow which has the same actuation distance but decreases the force level.
The biggest reason that controllers built like keyboards are less common is that they are much much more complicated to design. Especially opticals, those are so much more complicated to work with.
Both normal mx switches and opticals require a custom pcb to mount the switches, and a very custom case to mount the switch plate and pcb to.
A controller that uses arcade buttons in comparison only requires a top panel with 24mm holes cut in it, whatever case beneath the panel, and you can run common button wires to an existing pcb like a brook board. It is much easier to design a controller this way, and it is much easier to source parts this way. It ends up being much more expensive though and uses way worse switches as a result.
this is an awesome video. Thank you
This was SO GOOD. I absolutely cannot belive this is your first video. Turned on notifications.
lol i'm not even looking to buy one of these, this was just enjoyable
Just in time when i needed the most. Thanks you 🙏
not even buying one but i still watched the whole video. great work
One of the GOAT fighting game controller reviews on TH-cam!
Appreciate the details here, thanks. I've been looking at boxx style controller in the last half year as I've been dealing w hand problems but not rly been pushed over the edge yet, mainly because of the boxx being pricy and seeming slow to get produced/ship, and being hesitant about having to make the transition. Considering it much more now with the frame1!
I rarely write comments but I want you to know that this video was amazingly informative and you did an excellent job.
Thanks a lot!
This is an amazing review. Now I just need to find out how to work this into my budget. Might take a couple of months but I will make it work.
Great idea with the O rings. Will have to play around with that for sure
Suuuuper sick video. Keep up the quality content man! We need more high quality videos like these in the melee community. Subscribed!
this video is insanely high quality, really hoping for more vids in the future!
Thanks! I have a few ideas for videos that I'd love to make sometime in the future. It might be a little while though as I'm pretty busy with university, looking for jobs, and other projects.
As a fellow keyboard nerd this made me really happy.
What is this this vid answered all the questions one might have for the digital controllers and also give such a lust and in depth understanding of working of a digital controller. How sad this does not get the views it deserves.
I am glad you liked it! I would have been happy if the video helped at least one person learn something, so I am very happy that the video has been seen 25k times!
amazing review, thanks for your insight and dedication :)
i dont know how i got here but this is an insanely well made video, keep it up!
Great vid! Only thing i didnt like was how you made the tactile bump sound like a design flaw. A lot of people seek out tactile switches
I really like switches with a good tactile bump.
This isn't a tactile bump though, it's more of a disturbed linear switch.
chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata/506
This is a force curve for a proper tactile switch.
The Sanwas disturbance feels unintentional and clumsy in comparison
@@CranesLab ah okay that makes sense. I guess now its just a great vid!
8:05 it's like the toy spongebob head flying off
LOL
This video is really great! Thanks for making it, I really enjoyed it :)
excited to watch. Just got a frame 1 by sheer circumstance. 1 day in im already schmooovin
You're the man crane! Awesome video, subbed
great review, but 1 thing i think needed to be covered was the software differences between the 2
I'd have liked to cover software differences, but there aren't too many and most can be found on their product pages. I wanted to keep the vid around 30 mins or less so I decided to not include that
Crazy good review, thanks for the insight!
Regarding a grippy bottom, I’m working on building a DIYB0XX currently and it sounds like a meme but I’m planning on covering the bottom with Flex Seal - that stuff is insanely grippy and you can just paint it on. Only thing is there’s much fewer color options.
Yooo that is genius. Lemme know if it turns out, that actually sounds like a great use of that stuff haha
@@CranesLab Will do, I'll post in the DIYB0XX Discord!
Incredible review. Thank you!
really good explanation, please do more technical stuff like this is really interesting
Nobody has ever deserved my sub more than you. This was a great review, hope you have a few thousand subs in the next few weeks!!
DUDE!! That acrylic case you made is AMAZING!!! Can you show us how you made it? DAMN that looks sexy :O
came here from Tai's tweet.
dude, who are you? this video was so sweet, never wanted a box controller, but you're convincing a controller purist to cop a frame1 just based on construction quality. good shit crane.
haha thanks! I make diy box controllers and circuit boards, and help other peeps to make their own.
I just finished a website actually that documents the projects I've worked on if you want to read about some of the stuff I do:
www.craneslab.xyz/
Goated review, thanks for the information.
Dude. You’re awesome. Had to sub.
I backed the Smash Stick Kickstarter a few months back and while I am excited to try it out, this review convinced me to pick up a Frame1 Light as well. Excellent review.
Really good in-depth review. I subscribed.
lmao ordered my b0xx like 3 months ago and wish i wouldve gotten frame 1 now, but it'll be here in like 2 weeks. great video
Ay the b0xx is still pretty decent at least. Glad you liked the vid!
I like how you brought the buttons closer together vertically. I I probably would also bring them closer together horizontally. So that I could do back-and-forth finger slide maneuvers in other games. And I think it would be more comfortable not having my fingers unnaturally spread apart
I made one where the buttons were as close together horizontally as possible as well as vertically, and I found having them spread a bit out like this to be far more comfortable for me.
It's definitely subjective though so feel free to try it out on a diy and see what you think.
I wish more controller reviews were this in depth.
Wow, I'm a newbie to fighting games but always thought controllers like these were pretty cool. As a mechanical keyboard enthusiast, I'm in love with both of the Frame1 versions, but especially the Heavy. I might have to splurge once they're available again. (Or should I say if? There hasn't been an update in a while)
Either way thanks for the super in-depth video!
I like the b0xx I think I’m going to order one.
I clicked this expecting a low effort rundown, what I got was smthn WAYYY fuckin better
ur a homie dawg, good shit
Ay thanks! Glad you liked it
I would love to see a build guide / tutorial on your diy box, I know they exist already but I feel like you'd make a really good one. Thanks for this review 👍
I have a DIY tutorial in the works at the moment. Hopefully will finish that within a couple of weeks! I have a few more DIY videos planned as well.
Thank you for this, I’ve been debating whether getting another controller or not
Amazing. I've been looking into and designing my own box controllers with my custom layout and I'm surprised I haven't found you until now. I love how in-depth you went on so much, but I kinda wish you touched on the software side of each box as well.
The software is pretty similar between them.
The only differences are that the B0XX has a couple of extra timing based nerfs which are not required in any ruleset, and the Frame1 plans to have an input remapper.
a deskthority user reviewing these controllers is what this community needs
this is the greatest review of anything of all time
The force curves bro. Amazing review
Thanks! I'd love to build a better rig for that in the future haha. Was quite the task to manually move the printer Z axis and type the result into Excel for a 1000 data points LOL.
Excellent video! Thank you!!!!
Baught my frame one thanks to this ; thanks my man
Holy fuck dude best review I've seen. I've been looking to switch to an arcade button style controller because I've recently gotten carpal tunnel and still want to be able to compete. Obviously they're generally expensive and I don't want to buy a product I'm not satisfied with. After watching this I've got a much better idea of what I'm looking for, as someone who is very inexperienced with the arcade button style controllers.
Wonderful video, the only thing that's missing now is I'd like to see a comparison of the Frame1 and a Smashbox
The smashbox has the same buttons as the b0xx so I have the same issues there. It also has pretty cheap internal pcb/wiring. Besides that though it has really customizable software, so I reckon it's really nice for people who want to use one of these for all sorts of games.
It sorta reminds me of the steam controller. Takes a lot to get the profiles setup properly, but can do things that other controllers can't.
@@CranesLab Thanks for the reply! Yeah that sounds like it has its own kind of niche then. Hopefully when the F1 gets the remapping software it will be able to achieve similar utility.
I love this video because it is difficult to find any footage or reviews of this I would love to see it in action or melee or ultimate
I want to gift myself a F1 for christmas. I know this might sound stupid but one of my concerns with F1H's alluminium case is temperature! Let's say I go out of the venue for a bit while waiting for my next tournament match: could my F1H still be cold, forcing me to play the match with cold hands?
Ideally, your wrists/hands shouldn't be resting on the case if you care at all about maintaining proper ergonomics. Also as long as your controller is in your bag it should be fairly insulated from the elements I would figure
(Realized I originally replied on the wrong account, whoops)
That's a good question!
As for the top panel at least for me, the warmth of my hands heats up the top really quickly when I rest my wrists on it. Also I think a lot of people float their wrists so they don't end up touching it. I've heard that's more ergonomic as well.
As for the bottom, the rubbery stuff is very neutral temperature wise, so if you play in shorts and it touches your legs you'll be all good
Thanks a lot! Happy holidays :)
So I don't play melee but I want a different version for other fighting games. Basically you could take away 8 of the buttons, put six shitter smaller buttons at the top, use a different PCB, and I would buy this over Hitbox/Snackbox/MPress/Victrix/etc. any day of the week. Who makes this? A different layout and you could sell a ton of them. Take my money!
Do you mean you want something like the MPress, but with the more spread out layout that these have?
@@CranesLab , exactly. I want the length of it across my lap to be wider... that way it fits on my legs better (depending how large or small someone is you might have to sit with your legs closer together which is uncomfortable for males). Secondly, it is better ergonomics to have your hands wider apart. There is a case to be made for having the hands closer together to be able to use your right thumb for the jump button as well, but I know I would never do so and the same could be said for most.
It should be even cheaper to make with less buttons, and the price point of the Frame1 light destroys anything else on the market already. The buttons at the top home, L3, R3, etc. wouldn't have to be nearly as large and wouldn't have to be super high quality which could further lower costs. I'm assuming the PCB would be more expensive, but if it was under $200 they would be the cheapest option on the market with a superior product. I don't know who makes this, but they would be leaving money on the table to not consider making a standard hitbox style version.
How do you have less than 200 subs? Dude screw YT and their damn algorythm, you just earned a subscriber! Your analysis kept me hooked from beginning to end, and I've never ever used an arcade box :o
Ay thanks!
This is actually my first vid, and it sorta requires a bit of previous knowledge about Melee/controllers to understand, so I'm very surprised that this many people have seen it and have subscribed haha.
I wasn't really planning to make other videos but seeing how a lot of people enjoyed this, maybe I'll review some obscure controllers and the various keyboards that I have!
@@CranesLab dude you shouldn't be as surprised. The way you tackled each of the controller strenghts, areas of improvement, what was simply your preference, it was all super well made and unbiased. The part I loved was the graph in which you demonstrated how muh strenght is needed to push the button and funnily enough, it made absolute sense to me and I could imagine the feel just by your explanation alone lol keep 'em coming dude, I' lo make sure to watch them as soon as they are released 😁👌
@@tsukimaru131 thanks so much! I'm really glad people have been enjoying it. Hopefully I'll come up with some more video ideas haha
@@CranesLab here's one at the top of my mind, as a fighting stick iliterate I'd be damn curious on the process of building a fighting stick/box like the ones you showed in video :o
@@tsukimaru131 Oh true! I'd love to make a video guide for making a DIY controller
upside down wooper
whoo, 1000th like. congrats.
real sweet review.
Thanks!
Any chance of a Smash Stick review in the future? I'm looking for better ergonomics than a GCC but still want an analog joystick
That's definitely a possibility! I might buy one when they release
You are a lifesaver! Thank you!!!
The only thing to note is that the "50 million presses" rating on keyboard switches is assuming they're used the way they are in a keyboard, not necessarily in a controller where people are going to be slapping the hell out of the buttons. Obviously they're still probably going to last longer, but it's not easy to do good durability calculations with that in mind.
wtf that review is insane
Kickass Crane, good job!
Would I be able to fit a Brook UFB in the F1? One of the appeals of doing a DIY with your boards is how easy it looks to add additional boards
Thanks! Yep any of the normal brook boards fit in the F1. It's even easier then my boards to add haha. You just slot it into the pcb
@@CranesLab oh shit that’s awesome
Doesn’t the GCCMX have a slot as well?
@@coolpikachufan01 yep it works just like that.
Fantastic review! Thanks a lot!
Glad it was helpful!
23:53 kind of similar spacing to the buttons on an accordion. Makes more sense!
Yo thanks for all this info tons of help
No prob!
This will be my first venture into any kind of arcade stick/box in my life. The simple question I have is: are buttons remapping a thing? I never liked the idea of important buttons being reliant on my pinky
You have to open the b0xx to remap it, and the Frame1 team has a software remapper in the works.
@@CranesLab
OK, that software remapping is pretty much the reason I'd probably go with Frame 1 frankly. Being able to make all the important buttons NOT be using my pinky is top tier and making the top row home instead of bottom is chef's kiss
@@manligi9701 Yeah software remapping is super nice. It's pretty inconvenient to need to open your controller to change the layout.
@@CranesLab
I hope you or frame 1 makes an announcement when the software remapping is available because I may forget, but I'm still very interested in stepping my game up
@@manligi9701 They'll definitely announce it in their discord/on twitter if you want to hear when it happens.
The one thing I would like to know is how do the weights of the three compare?
Wonderful video!
Gotchu:
F1 light - 2.595 lbs - 1.178 kg
B0XX - 3.690 lbs - 1.674 kg
F1 Heavy - 5.161 lbs - 2.341 kg
And thanks!
insane quality video
wow - excellent video.
Thanks for the review, it was very helpful. Minor constructive criticism, starting at 5:56, while you're explaining your methodology for determining a button's lifespan, there's a very weird audio processing effect behind your voice, like a robot with your voice is also speaking at the same time. Sounded very distracting on headphones. Other than that, thank you for the info!
Np! Yeah I really am not too sure what happened with the audio. I did a mic check before starting the first recording and it sounded fine (and it sounds fine for a while).
I think it started echoing after I stopped and restarted the recording while I was getting some resources. For future recordings I'll definitely mic check every time I restart recording to help catch stuff like that.
Hoping to see an update with JFA's Lunchbox when theres a full release loved this vid
Ye I'll probably look at one of those and a couple other smaller scale rectangle producers in another video.
This is the most insane review.
really informative vid good shit (algorithm comment)
Best review I have ever watched. I play smash with a nodded gc controller but I play fighting games on hitbox. Do think I could transition to a frame 1 easily?
I think being used to a layout like the hitbox would probably help as you are already used to using all of your fingers at once.
Those intro and outro disclaimers were so unnecessary. This was a well made video, especially as a first.
Ay thanks. I'm a pretty harsh self critic.
Seems like a big vinyl sticker for the box would be cool. Like a dbrand case
I think I remember someone did that to get a matte finish on their b0xx, and it seemed to work out if I remember right.
Great review :))