Thanks! In this case Rosser suggested a different grease. I used the one from FPV cycle. And rosser specifically said to use some different ones :) this was more of a test for FPV cycle grease on Open racer
@@PIDtoolbox Yes but its not honest science until you run an actual experiment. That was a stunt not an experiment. Could he have been more obviously biased? You can’t even reproduce 2 flights under the exact same conditions and you think 2 flights testing a variable qualifies as science? Your school might owe you a refund on your education.... I reiterate as well: he used the WRONG product and applied it completely wrong…. More than a bit ridiculous? If only there were COUNTLESS machines and structures that use grease (not that grease) for this very reason. What a joke. The difference it makes may well be insignificant HOWEVER for you to say it was a ridiculous hypothesis is completely absurd. Your ignorance abounds.
building my first fpv quad, a 5in Apex DC. Watching this before i put some grease in it hahaha i like this channel, subbed. im still going to apply some to the "keystone" area of the Apex but at least I know what to expect. Figure already have it, won't hurt anything. Not going to be installing it under the motors as I'm soft mounting anyway. I'm going to throw some of your content on while I build, cheers from Pisgah in North Carolina.
its crazy i watched this and found limon on youtube and then a week later im out at this spot watching them all race bunch of great guys and amazing racers
I use it on my freestyle builds that won’t be constantly broken and it has helped, I think….!but seems to only work on fov cycle frames. I think it might be necessary for the sonicare lol
This whole "damping grease" BULLSHIT is unnecessary if you build your quad with a little TLC. (tight screws, everything secured properly, proper filtering) Thank you for this video Ivan. 😎
I've yet to really AB it.. with identical set up quads. fly one then the other... but when I use it... the frame which might of rang a bit on contact turns into a dead solid chunk and returns a nice thud. My best flying babytooth... is two 1.5mm frames... with dampening grease between the two layers. but you know... could be Placebo
FYI lubricants are used on threads of some higher torqued fasteners like on firearms and biclcyes, lube does let the fasteners get torqued up to standard, so high that won't get loose under intended use, but still able to be removed and reinstalled without the mess of threadlockers. While threadlockers are used on only a few places for those applications.
@@KwongKan Right - but running threadlockers of any description on stuff that is subjected to a lot of high bandwidth frequency content vibrations is a generally sound practice.
7" is the place where I actually have seen some form of overall difference - but I'm also mass-stacking liquid electrical tape onto places, so I'm probably getting some actual mechanical damping effects beyond just the contact points at fastener/joint locations (and this is also on cheaper frames).
@@IvanEfimovLimon I meant liquid eletrical tape for 7inch or bigger craft as tehllama said. i feel you on the grease tho! if ur frame is good then grease shouldnt have any effect
I have beast class frames with 14mm thick stacked arms I use polyurethane adhesive to bond them together. Can’t be beat allows higher cut offs and cleans up big birds massively increases stiffness and strength. Tried the grease doesn’t last long.
Even when you have a computer controlling multiple runs they are not identical, the wind and atmospheric differences, but this can be helped a good deal by logging inside a building. Prop colour test, vibration difference? Durability difference? There is a massive amount of stuff I hear from many in FPV, definitely on a weekly basis.
@@Sugar_K Edit: is this data available to the public? We have a lot of new props with interesting chemistries, it would be cool to revisit. I compare a lot of props and the newer ones feel different in the hand and in the air. My blackbox sees the noise difference in the different colours, but everyone talks to me about different colours being more durable, I’m curious about this as I try all the colours and just stick to the best performer and have no data on durability. Would be cool to get a top level, like MCK, describe the difference in feel, if any, I sure as hell can’t tell, it’s just my blackbox. I actually accidentally found that out while tuning, and I made sure that it’s not the mold or imbalance, so it’s definitely the chemistry. In my case anyway, I can’t say that it wouldn’t be the mold or something in every case.
@@lemonsquareFPV i think it’s the Chemistry. Basically different colours are going to have different levels of stiffness. So the results are not huge but he was able to find differences
@@IvanEfimovLimon maybe because resonance is sensitivity to a certain vibration frequency, by adding grease we change the mechanical structure, hence it will change the sensitivity for that paricular frequency, so not all frames will react the same way to adding grease
Your quad doesn't have frame resonance problems, so there is nothing to "fix". Take a quad that has frame resonance and try again, it works. But its not going to remove problems that arent there...
Oh, there are some frame resonances, can see them in all the plots. The biggest is global spike on yaw. It's not moved anywhere, not even an inch. Also grease is not just for resonances. It's for all the noise out there supposedly. Grease does not know if the noise is resonance or motor noise or "ambient" noise, it just transfers friction to heat. Well, supposed to. Yaw resonances ~260Hz is well seen at 06:30. I wish we could post pictures here :)
@@IvanEfimovLimon My experience was much different. Ill post links to screenshots of my logs below. The comment will probably show in your "held for review" section, which is why im leaving it in a separate comment. I can provide the logs on discord if you are curious.
I'll save you some time - you can damp a lot of the system at the wrong frequency regime, and get very consistently worse results. This is one of those ways in every combination I've tried.
@@IvanEfimovLimon I got a set of silicone ones from AliExpress. I did a lot of testing… basically trying to figure out the electrical tape fad from a while back, I did also test electrical tape. It is much easier than fiddling and cutting electrical tape but is still very finicky. Everything needs to be torqued equally and I tried a large amount of torque values. Different torque values move the vibration frequency band. It can make it much worse, or slightly better. It helps on some motors, but I gave up on it as it is too finicky and requires way too much effort. You also MUST use 4 screws, which was a no go for me as well. Now I just hard mount with 2 screws. I just pack my motor bearings with grease regularly and check balance occasionally and this honestly works for me. Greased bearings and balanced motors make the biggest difference of everything I have tested.
I have two nearly identical builds, one with the same grease you used and one without. I cannot tell a difference in how they fly, and the motors with the same filters and pids come down at the same temperature. I think the grease might help in situations where there's adverse conditions, like bent or disfigured props, but that's specific situations and it's likely you won't notice enough difference in flight performance with a well tuned and filtered quad for it to matter. Keep on keepin on!
This is just a feeling some pilots have. A human is no measurement tool! Better Fasten up all half inch of your wires and antennas ist he best way. The other is practice, practice and practice again and again and……
Honestly Chris deserves an award for the ugliest drones ever made and creating a cult following over sounding like he knows what he's talking about. Never made sense or appealed to me...
Lmao ewww
"At least ask QuadDoc...."omg i almost fell out of my chair
I was very skeptical about this, now I'm fully convinced. Thanks for your testing Ivan!!
It still might help some on some frames with problems... So I would record blackbox before greasing up lol
You seem to be on a roll to demystify Chris Rosser's theories and I'm enjoying it. Fantastic tests and real world data. Keep up the good work 👏🏼 🤟🏻
Thanks! In this case Rosser suggested a different grease. I used the one from FPV cycle. And rosser specifically said to use some different ones :) this was more of a test for FPV cycle grease on Open racer
@@IvanEfimovLimon oh nice one. I didn't know there were two different greases. Well said 🤟🏻
Excellent work!
You cannot be serious Brian. This was absolute trash.
@@KnoxLife a null result is honest science. the “grease hypotheses” was more than a bit ridiculous
@@PIDtoolbox Yes but its not honest science until you run an actual experiment. That was a stunt not an experiment. Could he have been more obviously biased? You can’t even reproduce 2 flights under the exact same conditions and you think 2 flights testing a variable qualifies as science? Your school might owe you a refund on your education.... I reiterate as well: he used the WRONG product and applied it completely wrong….
More than a bit ridiculous? If only there were COUNTLESS machines and structures that use grease (not that grease) for this very reason. What a joke. The difference it makes may well be insignificant HOWEVER for you to say it was a ridiculous hypothesis is completely absurd. Your ignorance abounds.
building my first fpv quad, a 5in Apex DC. Watching this before i put some grease in it hahaha i like this channel, subbed. im still going to apply some to the "keystone" area of the Apex but at least I know what to expect. Figure already have it, won't hurt anything. Not going to be installing it under the motors as I'm soft mounting anyway. I'm going to throw some of your content on while I build, cheers from Pisgah in North Carolina.
its crazy i watched this and found limon on youtube and then a week later im out at this spot watching them all race bunch of great guys and amazing racers
I had to check and yes, there is a link for Dawn dishsoap on the desc 😆
10:00 you nailed it right on the head. The more surface area you have the more area where the grease can convert vibrations into heat energy.
I use it on my freestyle builds that won’t be constantly broken and it has helped, I think….!but seems to only work on fov cycle frames. I think it might be necessary for the sonicare lol
That Chace footage!!🥲!!
This whole "damping grease" BULLSHIT is unnecessary if you build your quad with a little TLC.
(tight screws, everything secured properly, proper filtering)
Thank you for this video Ivan. 😎
I grease the key in the apex on all the vertical sides it seems to help but I haven't done a a/b yet but I keep adding it anyway 🤷 much placebos
I've yet to really AB it.. with identical set up quads. fly one then the other...
but when I use it... the frame which might of rang a bit on contact turns into a dead solid chunk and returns a nice thud.
My best flying babytooth... is two 1.5mm frames... with dampening grease between the two layers.
but you know... could be Placebo
I use grease but only on the threads of the hardware. They go in tighter and stay tight.
You're describing threadlockers, which should always be used. Damping grease is different for a different application
@@tehllama42 still can load dampening grease in standoffs to reduce vibration.
FYI lubricants are used on threads of some higher torqued fasteners like on firearms and biclcyes, lube does let the fasteners get torqued up to standard, so high that won't get loose under intended use, but still able to be removed and reinstalled without the mess of threadlockers.
While threadlockers are used on only a few places for those applications.
@@KwongKan Right - but running threadlockers of any description on stuff that is subjected to a lot of high bandwidth frequency content vibrations is a generally sound practice.
Interesting, why you don't like thread locker? Blue one works good for me...
7" is the place where I actually have seen some form of overall difference - but I'm also mass-stacking liquid electrical tape onto places, so I'm probably getting some actual mechanical damping effects beyond just the contact points at fastener/joint locations (and this is also on cheaper frames).
Yeah that's what Supafly said too about bigger drones.
@@IvanEfimovLimon id imagine doing this on cinelifter setups would be beneficial too right?
@@MrKillerHobbes I highly doubt that grease is beneficial when screws are tight lol
@@IvanEfimovLimon I meant liquid eletrical tape for 7inch or bigger craft as tehllama said. i feel you on the grease tho! if ur frame is good then grease shouldnt have any effect
@@MrKillerHobbes yeah liquid tape might help of course, just like any glue if you glue together the frame besides the screws ha ))
Awesome stuff!
I have beast class frames with 14mm thick stacked arms I use polyurethane adhesive to bond them together. Can’t be beat allows higher cut offs and cleans up big birds massively increases stiffness and strength. Tried the grease doesn’t last long.
Adhesive isn’t grease though! Carbon paste for push bikes would be a good idea too easier to clean up
Even when you have a computer controlling multiple runs they are not identical, the wind and atmospheric differences, but this can be helped a good deal by logging inside a building.
Prop colour test, vibration difference? Durability difference? There is a massive amount of stuff I hear from many in FPV, definitely on a weekly basis.
The actual flights, about as similar as you'd get flying in actual dynamic air conditions, it was actually impressive.
@@tehllama42 Agreed! That’s what I was getting at, Limon is very consistent considering an ever changing environment.
Prop colour is a thing.. one of our bf guys did some comprehensive tests a few years ago.. the results were surprising
@@Sugar_K
Edit: is this data available to the public?
We have a lot of new props with interesting chemistries, it would be cool to revisit.
I compare a lot of props and the newer ones feel different in the hand and in the air.
My blackbox sees the noise difference in the different colours, but everyone talks to me about different colours being more durable, I’m curious about this as I try all the colours and just stick to the best performer and have no data on durability. Would be cool to get a top level, like MCK, describe the difference in feel, if any, I sure as hell can’t tell, it’s just my blackbox.
I actually accidentally found that out while tuning, and I made sure that it’s not the mold or imbalance, so it’s definitely the chemistry. In my case anyway, I can’t say that it wouldn’t be the mold or something in every case.
@@lemonsquareFPV i think it’s the Chemistry. Basically different colours are going to have different levels of stiffness. So the results are not huge but he was able to find differences
Love your videos !
I use it to remove creaks and rattles from car interiors. Great for that :P
Looks conclusive. But how did Chris Rosser come to the conclusion that grease actually helps with vibrations?
Good question. He also used different grease type. Well and different drone.
I had my doubts, I can see it helping bigger quads......maybe.
Guess we have to bring back soft mounting our motors!
LOL
Grease is something but it's not worth the mess or time. Thanks Limon!
But did you apply it to your gimballs?
no... Neil at all of it :))
What can you say about tattu r-line v5?
Here, Sir
th-cam.com/video/L9XEImxkkAw/w-d-xo.html
@@IvanEfimovLimon idk why i missed this video
perhaps with PR 11313 difference could be visible?)
This stuff is so nasty. I've used it back to back, and absolutely no dififference in logs. I now have a sticky nasty quad.
LOL! Knew it..
Brought to you by KY
Idk what is KY :)
@@IvanEfimovLimon it's a jelly used for sex!
@@IvanEfimovLimon lols
Nope, done that. I get sticky hand and sticky quad! what i do now is apply some silicone glue as damping (optional)
You sure its not the weight of the glue that's doing the extra damping???
@@Finnv893 4 arm used about 2 drops of silicon glue haha. didn't check backbox yet, doesn't matter because it fly really well without doing anything.
Nothing but greasy hands and grease collecting dirt.
May be it is effective on the resonance frequency, but on your experiement you have created motor vibrations.
how the grease would know if a vibration is resonance or a motor? :)
@@IvanEfimovLimon maybe because resonance is sensitivity to a certain vibration frequency, by adding grease we change the mechanical structure, hence it will change the sensitivity for that paricular frequency, so not all frames will react the same way to adding grease
@@anahoua4837 i don't think that's how it works. Plus on the yaw axis I had a strong resonance at 200hz+ that didn't change at all.
Cut props or general vibrations are commonly well below 150 hz. - Bob Roogi (Spoiler alert: they're not)
Yeah that was funny a bit 🤣
Lols
if Mr. Steele inspires me to freestyle, your outros inspire me to race. Plus I am becoming a better shit pilot thanks to you.
We are all trying to become better shit pilots )))
Hey they are not TMNT! They are the transformers. And CTZ is definitely Optimus Prime
Your quad doesn't have frame resonance problems, so there is nothing to "fix".
Take a quad that has frame resonance and try again, it works. But its not going to remove problems that arent there...
Oh, there are some frame resonances, can see them in all the plots. The biggest is global spike on yaw. It's not moved anywhere, not even an inch.
Also grease is not just for resonances. It's for all the noise out there supposedly. Grease does not know if the noise is resonance or motor noise or "ambient" noise, it just transfers friction to heat. Well, supposed to. Yaw resonances ~260Hz is well seen at 06:30. I wish we could post pictures here :)
@@IvanEfimovLimon My experience was much different. Ill post links to screenshots of my logs below. The comment will probably show in your "held for review" section, which is why im leaving it in a separate comment. I can provide the logs on discord if you are curious.
Tooo much close on objects during chacing , next world champion ship given to you 😎
Next maybe rubber motor dumpers?
eeeehhh.. not sure how i feel about them lol :) are they being sold somewhere?
I'll save you some time - you can damp a lot of the system at the wrong frequency regime, and get very consistently worse results. This is one of those ways in every combination I've tried.
@@IvanEfimovLimon I got a set of silicone ones from AliExpress. I did a lot of testing… basically trying to figure out the electrical tape fad from a while back, I did also test electrical tape. It is much easier than fiddling and cutting electrical tape but is still very finicky.
Everything needs to be torqued equally and I tried a large amount of torque values. Different torque values move the vibration frequency band. It can make it much worse, or slightly better. It helps on some motors, but I gave up on it as it is too finicky and requires way too much effort. You also MUST use 4 screws, which was a no go for me as well.
Now I just hard mount with 2 screws. I just pack my motor bearings with grease regularly and check balance occasionally and this honestly works for me.
Greased bearings and balanced motors make the biggest difference of everything I have tested.
I have two nearly identical builds, one with the same grease you used and one without. I cannot tell a difference in how they fly, and the motors with the same filters and pids come down at the same temperature. I think the grease might help in situations where there's adverse conditions, like bent or disfigured props, but that's specific situations and it's likely you won't notice enough difference in flight performance with a well tuned and filtered quad for it to matter. Keep on keepin on!
Nice testing, I didn't like the idea of this stuff when I first heard about it, seems like a waste of time.
Greasy Pilot?
This is just a feeling some pilots have. A human is no measurement tool! Better Fasten up all half inch of your wires and antennas ist he best way. The other is practice, practice and practice again and again and……
100%!
As usual, thumb up :) Grease effect: Fly, crash --> bent props.. Bye bye "grease effect" lol
Besides having filthy greasy quads already, now I know it's not even helping. SADFACE.
Thanks I guess?! ;)
LOL
Honestly Chris deserves an award for the ugliest drones ever made and creating a cult following over sounding like he knows what he's talking about. Never made sense or appealed to me...
How to be a moron: Testing damping grease with cut props.
I bet you can't even explain to yourself your point here :)
Reeeeeeeeeeee