Great video DJ Vespers, just revisited this video and made the bass sit perfectly in the mix. I also add a bit of parallel compression to the top basses and it sounding PHAT!! I forgot how powerful Massive is, oh and now its a Instrument chain in my favourite folder for quick access!
should have turned off your ozone or whatever plugins you have on top when showing your 'perfect' subbass, its not fair for the listener when it doesnt sound the same and you havent said why
i think that basically a smooth square may have origin in other vstis like z3ta+ 1 or 2 with a "overdrive-distorted" sine wave or with a sine wave passed through a waveshaper into the plugins that have this effect into their synthesis chain
Really useful vids man. I have another way of making subs which you may find interesting. What I do is load up only a sine wave in massive, and add an amp from the ableton effects. Then you set it on the 'Bass" setting, and low pass. I then set the dry wet to 30-50% and it sounds wicked. Same kind of effect, but you can use it for bigrrom kicks, and if you take off the low pass, it works really well for hardstyle kicks. The amp setting is really down to preference, but for subs I use the Bass setting.
the wavelengthes of the smooth square are different because the edges aren't as sharp and abrupt. The smoth square sounds smoother because the edges of the waveform are rounded.
3:30 for newer Massive users following your walkthrough step-by-step, I would make it a point that you left the two oscilators in use for the subbase patch on "Spectrum", where as on your main bass patch you were using the "Bend-/+" option. solid tutorial as always. I'd like to suggest that you go into even more depth for various techniques on TH-cam to increase your exposure and to better press your Audio Weapons Course. again, nice upload!
Yes, I would be careful about frequency masking. 200hz is quite a high frequency for a sub, so firstly I would lower it a bit. But that should be fine as long as you EQ it properly and make a small cut a 200hz to make space for the snare. If this isn't enough maybe apply some ducking or sidechaining to help it come though. I hope this comment helped.
Grant Norwood it's just tonal balance shaping, you can see that most of the audible range of the sound is boosted and the volume would have been adjusted accordingly to the midbass afterward.
Same thing , but this way if you do any changes to your original bass sound , you can just copy over the clip to your sub channel. If you were to just shift everything an octave down , you'd have to do that to your new bass clip , and move that to the sub channel. Different approaches to the same thing.
Hey Vespers, just a question, on the subass patch, did you have change the enveloppe 4, is that the same enveloppe of the previous raw reese patch, with the longer attack, and level higher ? So the midbass and sub will have the same movement ?
Hey Vesper! Sold bass patch, it sounds great! So even though you said it would sound the best on laptop, car speaker. would it still sound good on club speakers and festival speaker?
All everyone needs to know is that pure bass is made with specific sine wave modulation, which can or can not be similar to your daw vsts , depending on If it is able to also output Pure sine and square wave bass
You're right in that pretty much any synth should be able to produce a sine wave. Although, you don't modulate a sine wave to make sub. You generate a sine wave in an oscillator. Square waves are entirely unsuitable for sub. They have way too many harmonics. Massive has a really nice "rounded rectangle" waveform that sounds smooth and produces a sub that cuts easily on smaller systems if you lowpass it. In this way, Massive is better IMO than most synths. Serum has the same sub-oscillator waveform.
Just wondering, why do you put a sinewave over the smooth square ? In my experience the result is the same if you only use a smoothsquare and you avoid phasing issue that you can get if you don't use the phase lock .
Hey Vespers! Need your help man!! How do you mix bass patches layered like this one? I mean I saw that top bass is set to -4 while sub 0.40, but can u tell what should be the whole group level peak and at which level should both top and sub peak? save my life man
I've found what I did wrong: I used an envelope on the pitch of both oscillators. A trick which I learned from one of your other tutorials. When I removed the envelope, the problem was solved. My question now is, how did the envelope mess up the sound?
What if the kick is taking up the subs? Wouldn't you just want to use a bass that takes up the bass area and pass off the subs so the kick can handle that?
First I want to thank you for all your great tutorials, it's helping me a lot. I encounter problems though, making a one note sub bass line with massive which I loop over and over again. When I listen I hear two different sounds. So when the note ends, the loop is at his start again and sounds different. When it starts again after this different sound it sounds again like the first loopplay. I hope the problem is clear and you can help me out.
Hi! Vespers, how could I know where to put the sublow in the mix if my monitors are not accurate? is there some rule like 9 db less than the kick or something? often when I put one of my tracks in the club it sounds too low. Excuse my english, greetins from Argentina!
I'm getting conflicting advice from people on making subbass. My buddie says he (and folks like Kromestar) make there subbass with a pure sine wave, nothing else. Then they separate it from the midrange bass and then a third bass layer for high frequency bass. He says doing it this way will get the maximum punch out of it. Says any higher frequencies in your subbass will make it ose it's potency which makes sense,though I do see lots of people doing it this way too. Thoughts?
The reason more than one method works is because these steps are all modeled After plugins that use all Similar algorithms in their Vst to generate bass , The ear just hears suttle differences
if your making dubstep and you have your snares with alot of emphasis on the 200hz mark, does it matter if your sub overlaps over 200hz? will it interfere? am i best bringing the lowpass just under 200?
In no way do I mean to degrade the quality of your work - it goes much appreciated by myself and many others. What I mean by my comment was to potentially enter another level of depth for the more advanced producers. I feel as though I'm already on par with what you're offering in this lengthy tutorial, and a slightly more advanced user like myself will require more information before subscribing to the Audio Weapons Course. If people like me consume your demographic, it's worth considering!
Don't you rollover the low end that even club system can't produce, which basically most stuff under 30 to 40hz ? Don't you need to hear what the sub sounds like with that not there ?
The release of your sub is too sharp. There is a huge infra spike at the note off (yes I have good monitors). In a big system It will definitely be a problem. Increase the release a bit. Good tutorial anyway.
hahaha "you're not gonna hear this on crappy headphone or laptop speakers" about the tutorial that says it sounds good on ANY sound system..... just funny.
turnip305 do you not realize the irony in that statement? this is a tutorial on getting your sub bass to sound good on ANY system. that would include laptop speakers. then he says, you probably wont hear this on laptop speakers...... and that being said, laptop speakers can be INCREDIBLY helpful when mixing. most mixes sound great on good systems and monitors. most people will listen to music on shitty car speakers, laptops, and horrible headphones. if you can get a mix to sound good on laptop speakers, it will sound good on ANYTHING.
skltr21 Irony - the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. No I don't see the irony. However, that is a fairly good tip, might have to use that one ;)
Great video DJ Vespers, just revisited this video and made the bass sit perfectly in the mix. I also add a bit of parallel compression to the top basses and it sounding PHAT!! I forgot how powerful Massive is, oh and now its a Instrument chain in my favourite folder for quick access!
Exactly what I need, explained in a solid, clear way. Excellent tutorial, 10/10 (i'm seriously not a troll, this is just a great tut!)
I can't use these type of sounds in my music, but the amount of information and the way you explain it is just so incredibly valuable.
should have turned off your ozone or whatever plugins you have on top when showing your 'perfect' subbass, its not fair for the listener when it doesnt sound the same and you havent said why
Thanks. Its quite nice to have such a tangible resource for the more technical aspect of production. Keep up the great tutorials.
i really love the way vespers say 'without' gets me everytime!
Great vid with great explanation!! We need more of these x.x
I notice you don't HP, Is it necessary to HP at 35h or no? Thanks
man this was a great help man. now i gotta get how you did that portamento and make it slide beautifully between notes!!!
i think that basically a smooth square may have origin in other vstis like z3ta+ 1 or 2
with a "overdrive-distorted" sine wave or with a sine wave passed through a waveshaper into the plugins that have this effect into their synthesis chain
Really awesome intro and outro, and amazing tutorial.
Love it ! thanks for the your patience and time to do that tutorial Vespers, cheers !
Really useful vids man. I have another way of making subs which you may find interesting. What I do is load up only a sine wave in massive, and add an amp from the ableton effects. Then you set it on the 'Bass" setting, and low pass. I then set the dry wet to 30-50% and it sounds wicked. Same kind of effect, but you can use it for bigrrom kicks, and if you take off the low pass, it works really well for hardstyle kicks. The amp setting is really down to preference, but for subs I use the Bass setting.
the wavelengthes of the smooth square are different because the edges aren't as sharp and abrupt. The smoth square sounds smoother because the edges of the waveform are rounded.
3:30 for newer Massive users following your walkthrough step-by-step, I would make it a point that you left the two oscilators in use for the subbase patch on "Spectrum", where as on your main bass patch you were using the "Bend-/+" option.
solid tutorial as always. I'd like to suggest that you go into even more depth for various techniques on TH-cam to increase your exposure and to better press your Audio Weapons Course.
again, nice upload!
Yes, I would be careful about frequency masking. 200hz is quite a high frequency for a sub, so firstly I would lower it a bit. But that should be fine as long as you EQ it properly and make a small cut a 200hz to make space for the snare.
If this isn't enough maybe apply some ducking or sidechaining to help it come though.
I hope this comment helped.
awesome!! thats a great tutorial
Very nice! One question..is it necessary to have the EQ boosted all the way down to 30 hz? It seems like at that point it's just pushing air.
thnx for all the vids vesper.. very grateful
like the idea of layering that smooth-saw waveform, but a 6db boost in the low end seems a bit much
Grant Norwood it's just tonal balance shaping, you can see that most of the audible range of the sound is boosted and the volume would have been adjusted accordingly to the midbass afterward.
Yea you're right I'm gonna try it
+Grant N Turn channel volume down, so it doens't matter
Same thing , but this way if you do any changes to your original bass sound , you can just copy over the clip to your sub channel. If you were to just shift everything an octave down , you'd have to do that to your new bass clip , and move that to the sub channel. Different approaches to the same thing.
The CPU pops at 5:15 scares me!
Hey Vespers, just a question, on the subass patch, did you have change the enveloppe 4, is that the same enveloppe of the previous raw reese patch, with the longer attack, and level higher ? So the midbass and sub will have the same movement ?
Hey Vesper! Sold bass patch, it sounds great!
So even though you said it would sound the best on laptop, car speaker. would it still sound good on club speakers and festival speaker?
Thanks. I just saved the result and cut a one cycle of wave and now I have nice sub bass in FL Sytrus )
All everyone needs to know is that pure bass is made with specific sine wave modulation, which can or can not be similar to your daw vsts , depending on
If it is able to also output
Pure sine and square wave bass
You're right in that pretty much any synth should be able to produce a sine wave. Although, you don't modulate a sine wave to make sub. You generate a sine wave in an oscillator. Square waves are entirely unsuitable for sub. They have way too many harmonics. Massive has a really nice "rounded rectangle" waveform that sounds smooth and produces a sub that cuts easily on smaller systems if you lowpass it. In this way, Massive is better IMO than most synths. Serum has the same sub-oscillator waveform.
i love his perfectly rainbow colored clips
hey cool video dude. Where can i find your mid bass tutorial video?
4:35 boosting at 30Hz? I saw a tutorial by Robert Babicz where he cuts everything below 30hz
u will cut it anyway at mastering
Jony Why bother boosting it then
idk xD
at sub i boost 50-60 Hz freqs and cut off after 80 Hz
Jony Fine - cut below 30, boost a little at 50 - 60, roll off over 80
Just wondering, why do you put a sinewave over the smooth square ? In my experience the result is the same if you only use a smoothsquare and you avoid phasing issue that you can get if you don't use the phase lock .
how do i find part one please?
Hey Vespers, is it fine to have a separate sub bass channel or is it better to glue it in with the bass channel like how you were doing?
Hey Vespers! Need your help man!! How do you mix bass patches layered like this one? I mean I saw that top bass is set to -4 while sub 0.40, but can u tell what should be the whole group level peak and at which level should both top and sub peak? save my life man
I've found what I did wrong: I used an envelope on the pitch of both oscillators. A trick which I learned from one of your other tutorials. When I removed the envelope, the problem was solved. My question now is, how did the envelope mess up the sound?
What if the kick is taking up the subs? Wouldn't you just want to use a bass that takes up the bass area and pass off the subs so the kick can handle that?
Why use a smooth square over say, a triangle wave? Just curious.
First I want to thank you for all your great tutorials, it's helping me a lot. I encounter problems though, making a one note sub bass line with massive which I loop over and over again.
When I listen I hear two different sounds. So when the note ends, the loop is at his start again and sounds different. When it starts again after this different sound it sounds again like the first loopplay.
I hope the problem is clear and you can help me out.
Any tips for compressing the mid + sub basses together?
the eq on your sub doesn't cut 30 hz, is it better to leave those frequency's and cut everything under 30 hz during mastering?
Why not pitch shift them a few semitones up? That way you move your emphasis point.
are you running mid + sub through a compressor in any FX chains? if your sub is cutting out you are probably maxing out a limiter/compressor with mids
is this better than just lowering the MIDI notes by 12?
Hi! Vespers, how could I know where to put the sublow in the mix if my monitors are not accurate? is there some rule like 9 db less than the kick or something? often when I put one of my tracks in the club it sounds too low. Excuse my english, greetins from Argentina!
how did you set the main envelope of this? cause i'm guessing a slow attack and maybe high decay leve, but just wanted to be sure..
I'm getting conflicting advice from people on making subbass. My buddie says he (and folks like Kromestar) make there subbass with a pure sine wave, nothing else. Then they separate it from the midrange bass and then a third bass layer for high frequency bass. He says doing it this way will get the maximum punch out of it. Says any higher frequencies in your subbass will make it ose it's potency which makes sense,though I do see lots of people doing it this way too. Thoughts?
The reason more than one method works is because these steps are all modeled
After plugins that use all
Similar algorithms in their
Vst to generate bass ,
The ear just hears suttle differences
What frequensies are the sub-bass usually in?
Thanks!
Great tutorial!
if your making dubstep and you have your snares with alot of emphasis on the 200hz mark, does it matter if your sub overlaps over 200hz? will it interfere? am i best bringing the lowpass just under 200?
dope patch btw i actually heard it through my laptop speakers!
In no way do I mean to degrade the quality of your work - it goes much appreciated by myself and many others. What I mean by my comment was to potentially enter another level of depth for the more advanced producers. I feel as though I'm already on par with what you're offering in this lengthy tutorial, and a slightly more advanced user like myself will require more information before subscribing to the Audio Weapons Course. If people like me consume your demographic, it's worth considering!
what about the compression settings?
Excellent
What about the envelopes???
or you can just drag it down 12 semitones (1 octave) in the midi pattern. That's what I prefer to do, honestly.
Great vid very informative
Don't you rollover the low end that even club system can't produce, which basically most stuff under 30 to 40hz ? Don't you need to hear what the sub sounds like with that not there ?
nice tutorial !! :D
Thank you
where is the first video
Man, you have done a lot of thing in your preset that you have not even show. Like the enveloppe and the portamento...
cut some of the very low frequenzies of the kick and sidechain its kinda hard tho
Nice tutorial
why did you pitch to -12 again?
how will sound camb do
Why would you boost so hard that low? Seems like that would only be asking for trouble...
A pure bass module is the only extenal real module I wish I had, all else is easily
Used with daws
For this reason, I prefer XFer Serum to Massive. Serum has a dedicated sub oscillator with direct out.
The release of your sub is too sharp. There is a huge infra spike at the note off (yes I have good monitors). In a big system It will definitely be a problem. Increase the release a bit.
Good tutorial anyway.
your names bass tek and you want to know what harmonics are.
found this 10 years later XD
Better late than never!
not a massive difference, but massive is the difference. WOOP
says car systems can't play Sub bass yet cars play 160db at 30hz..
oh not polyphonic?
this is useless if I cant find the last goddamn video
Fuck that intro track haha wow
little boost- 6db :D
your sub bass sounds like spoderman 0:23
"Subbed" SUBscibed! Get it hahahahahahaha.... I'm lonely.
hahaha "you're not gonna hear this on crappy headphone or laptop speakers" about the tutorial that says it sounds good on ANY sound system..... just funny.
Any sound system thats worth listening to music out of*
laptop speakers are not a sound system, they are shit
turnip305 do you not realize the irony in that statement? this is a tutorial on getting your sub bass to sound good on ANY system. that would include laptop speakers. then he says, you probably wont hear this on laptop speakers...... and that being said, laptop speakers can be INCREDIBLY helpful when mixing. most mixes sound great on good systems and monitors. most people will listen to music on shitty car speakers, laptops, and horrible headphones. if you can get a mix to sound good on laptop speakers, it will sound good on ANYTHING.
skltr21 Irony - the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. No I don't see the irony. However, that is a fairly good tip, might have to use that one ;)
turnip305 Oh my friggin bajeezus this guy is a fucking idiot.
if we need good headphones or speakers then this is not a tutorial about making sub bass sound good ANY SYSTEM. i think.
Awesome video, just what I was looking for👍 Instagram: h20delta
I heard government SUBsidizes low income dubstep musicians.
This gave me cancer.