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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ธ.ค. 2022
- Photographers are pissed. Even the Capture One faithful!
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As a hobbyist using CO for 5 years on perpetual licenses I firmly believe a subscription is just an excuse to reduce innovation and trap users. If you can’t come up with some great features for an upgrade that people will buy then why would I pay for a subscription? At least in the end I get to keep using it with a perpetual license but a subscription leaves me with zilch when I quit subscribing.
I too am a hobbyist who has been using C1 perpetual for a number of yrs. I did not go for V23 thinking that V22 would do just fine for what I do as an amateur. However if I get a new camera or new lense my version may not support the new gear, which concerns me.
Well, I’ll gladly continue to pay Adobe every month, and help pay for new amazing features in Lightroom and Photoshop. I’ll also gladly pay to get support for new cameras and the ability to sync photos so I can edit on the iPad and iPhone. I also gladly pay so that I can upload my photos when traveling, knowing that the computer at home will download them, and automatically back them up 2 times.
@@fotografi4fun what happens to all your edits when you stop paying Adobe?
I upgraded on Black Friday and feel right now quite tricked. Your video brings it right to the point.
Btw, this is not the first time that they screwed their customer/partners. About a year ago they stopped all their partnerships with capture one mentors and TH-camrs. People that created for years amazing content for capture one where just dropped in a single day.
They are going down. They think they are special, but really they are just falling behind.
I didn't know that; it's disgusting. ☹
Gavin,
I am considering moving back to LR. Seems to be an easier workflow when having to composite and blend images when using PS for real estate and automobile shoots. As a fuji user (X-mount), I moved to C1 after initially using LR . I was curious if you have a recommendation of moving files from C1 catalog back to LR? Thank you!
I would just leave the folder and saves right where they are and import the same folder structure back to Lightroom. I know of no way to bring your develop setting. They are distinctly diffident beasts.
I haven't upgraded capture one since version 21. The 22-release added HDR/panorama merging. This was very late to the game, and I have other applications (ON1 Photo Raw is my current preference) that do this. Also, the implementations that Capture one made were very minimal. It wasn't work the update cost of $179, When version 23 came out, it again didn't add anything of value, so I skipped it. Upgrades ended in January and now it is $299. I completely feel abended/punished by Capture one. The only real advantage I had wit Capture One was tethering. I am looking at other options.
is (Smart Shooter 5) an option i have same issue with capture one as you only went their way because of tethering
I saw SS5 at work with a friend. Impressive. It's fast, presents customisable info and helps to minimise SSD use through instand selection in keep/delete.
When I bought my Fuji Xt the salesperson suggested using Capture One. So I got into using it, albeit totally unsuccessfully. I feel disappointed with the complexity of instructions on how to use it and will likely go other places to edit and process my work. So sad. I'm perseverant, though, to a point. Is Adobe LR as complicated to use?
is (Smart Shooter 5) from tethered tools a solution for us we bought in capture one for its tethered capabilities????
I have used C1 21 so far because I owned Fujifilm cameras XT2 and XT3. Because my XT3 was stolen quite recently, I bought the XT5. However, when I tried to upload the raw files to Capture 1 21, the program didn't upload them, just the jpg. Does anyone know if C1 23 is capable of working the heavier XT5 raw files?
Totally agree with you., Gavin. I have a perpetual license and C1 22. I did not get C1 23 because of the reasons you stated. I was not really excited by the upgrade. My thought was to wait for C1 24 and see what it had to offer. Now if you have a perpetual license and don't go subscription you're screwed because essentially there will no longer be any perpetual licenses. I like the levels tool in C1 and use it a lot. But Lr CC is what I use as my DAM and initial editing. I just wish Adobe would come out with a Levels tool. Unless there is something in Lr's develop module I am missing. So for me it looks like C1 22 is my last involvement with C1. I will use it until is becomes obsolete butC1 is not geting any of my hard earned money in the future..
Wow! I had no idea. I just bought a fuji camera and my old stand alone perpetual LR6 can't recognize the raw files. So I've been tinkering with the free Capture One for fuji and actually was about to buy a perpetual license when I saw this video. Now I'm reconsidering the LR subscription service as I am already familiar with the workflow and controls. Fornow it's just the free version of Capture One while I figure out if I want to do subscriptions with Adobe or buy a non-updated Capture One.
As a hobbyist, I will continue to use CO23 until it breaks. However many years that is. I too did not want to pay each month to Adobe. Don't like the subscription model. Never had, never will.
While I tend to agree with that sentiment. It means no updates, nor Raw compatibility if you buy a new camera etc. That's why people are leaving C1 for LR. They threw away their biggest advantage and LR is now far cheaper and less hassle.
I took a break form photgraphy for 12 years, now got back into it. (Bought a X-T5 and sone accessories).
I'm looking for some good software and capture one was on the list but thanks to their "customer care" and videos like yours I'm out.
I don't like subscription models at all. Are there any other alternatives? I'm using darktable at the moment.
Thanks the video.
I hear you. No decent current alternatives,. You can use old software like CS6. Things like dark table are options but not even close to LR and while I also don't like subscriptions, at $10/mo for LR and PS, adobe really has the best deal and the best product right now.
If you use a perpetual license of Capture One 23 and the functionality of the version suits you, then you can use it for many years and simply not update. No need to pay for Capture One and then it is more profitable than a subscription. Let Capture One look for those who are willing to sit on their expensive subscription. I am sure that they will soon feel a decrease in sales. Usually only financial losses force something to rethink and change approaches. Imho. 😉✌
That’s what I don’t get about this whole video. If you buy software out right, I’d expect bug fixes and usability updates, not the latest version of the software for free forever. How is that sustainable for the software company?
I just want new cameras to be supported ...like r6mk2. I don't give a poop on new features, my 22 is fine as it is... i don't care about tether and crap like that. Just want my new body to work on it. it's really expensive to pay the version it supports new bodies...it's unfair and bullpoop , very disappointed with them tbh
Does Lightroom offer anything such as EIP? Just curious! I have been trying to figure it out.
You can save sidecar files out or use DNG's and LR can save setting in them for transport.
@@Seimstudios thanks a lot. Will try it out. Just want to make sure setting are the same for the colorist and client to see if Lightroom is use.
Could you discuss Photolab 7?
Hopefully I can compare that in 2024 reviews
I've been using C1 for 5+ years.. I just switched from Nikon to Sony and am confused by what I need to do in order to get the Sony license key.. My (Nikon) subscription just renewed this past week ($103) for another year. Do I now need to purchase an annual subscription at $176/yr?!
From C1 22 pro, all camera makes are now included.
Learning and using Capture One has gone on hold with me (I am not a professional photographer but have CO 23) until the future price/value impacts become clearer. I like the interface especially more than any other program I have used but the price has always been problematic.
Very valuable thread. Was a convert from Canon to Fuji, so grabbed the free C1 version. Then bit on the black Friday deal and signed up for the subscription. Here's the thing, I'm newly returning to photography and editing is new ground. I wanted to avoid Adobe for many "historic" reasons, but mainly because I hate subscription models (and I worked in the software industry). So, now, with all the good feedback on this video, the question begs should I pay for a LR/PS monthly subscription and learn the tools that appear to be a standard? Or keep learning C1 and see what they do in February? Side note, I use FastRaw Viewer for culling, which I like. Thanks! Newbie Steve
I hear you. But Capture One no longer has the subscription free advantage since you pay more and get less.
Thanks!! Was trying to decide which way to go... just decided!! Lr and Ps it is!!
Glad it helped you out
I've just bought v23, having been tempted by the discount. I'll wait to see what C1 does to answer the criticisms over the next few months, but I'm actively looking for a replacement (that isn't Adobe :-)).
I bought a perpetual licence for C1 22. Still hacks me off that I have to validate the install every so often as I may not always be working online. I'm not interested in new features but would like to get profiles for new lenses and bodies. Will this be possible with a legacy perpetual licence? If not I'm ditching C1 and writing off the previous losses on the (effectively) useless perpetual licence.
My understanding is they will give you NOTHING of any updates unless you pay again.
Well, they've just lost my business. I have On1 and Affinity too. I'm finding these to be great (but On1 is painfully slow) @@Seimstudios
I’m also worried if I stop paying capture one if they will disable my program somehow so I can’t get into my photos anymore. I do know if you have more than one computer if you upgrade one to the newest version it disables your other ones.
The original photos will still exists on your drive and be fine. But you won't be able to open and see your edits.
I agree with you completely. I bought the version 23 upgrade and I regret it.
Avid has done a similar thing a few years ago with their perpetual license model but in a different way.
I have a perpetual Pro Tools Studio license, which costs €595, and that license comes with a 1 year update and support plan and a free plug-in pack. So during that year I get all the new features and bug fixes, no matter to which version they go.
After that year I have the choice, I either renew my update and support plan for one year which costs €209, that's 35% of the perpetual license which is fair in my book.
If I don't renew, i still have a 2 months grace period where in can renew for €209. If I want to get updates and support and the plug-in pack after that grace period I will need to buy a reinstatement instead of a renewal which costs €299 which is about 50% of the perpetual license and you can at least skip 2 years and probably even more since the reinstatement is also valid for Pro Tools 12 which was released back in 2015.
Now, if Capture One was to come up with a similar way of doing their perpetual license going into the future, I think that would be a better move than to cut off updates to new features each X.X version release.
Doing this, the Avid way, on a per year basis with a renewal and past a year with some sort of reinstatement fee would make way more sense and they would be able to sell this license model much better IMHO.
That being said, I'm curious as what will be in their statement in February 2023 regarding the loyalty scheme they mentioned. But, it was dumb of them not to include this information in their initial statement because that is the exact info all perpetual license owners are missing and it would have made world of difference if they just had included it.
I think this can mean two things. Either they will be gauging user's responses and base a plan of of that to somehow try to salvage as much of this pickle as possible or the loyalty scheme pricing will be ludicrous that they would actually still be forcing everybody towards the subscription model.
Only time will tell but I do hope that they turn this around and somehow take the route Avid did, I think would be a good solution to the problem.
Thanks for the video... well said. I cannot agree more. I now have huge regret for switching to Capture One 4 years ago.
4 years ago they were edging out LR. But they ignored customers and thought they were special instead of improving. But it's not hard to switch back honestly. Sync up the same folder locations and you're good to go.
@@Seimstudios Yep, Capture One has grown over confident and they are shooting themselves in the foot. I would be a fool to pay twice (or more) for C1 over LightRoom vs PhotoShop. Although I'm hoping Affinity Photo 2 adds a lightweight "inventory" capability -- personally, much prefer the C1 "Session" style vs one big, huge database of every photo you have run through it... it seems like it wouldn't be a stretch for Affinity Photo to add the session approach... it seems like it would be less work than adding the "one big DB approach". Either way, I really frustrated and disappointed with C1 at this point (and not just this most recent change, but some of the other money grab moves they have made like getting rid of the Sony-specific version for a savings).
Yep same here. Upgraded twice and now wondering why
For me it would be okay to buy the perpetual license for $299 and use it for five years without any feature updates. The problem through are the camera and lens profiles. What if my new camera or lens does not have a profile included in my perpetual license? Will there be an option to get those profiles without having to pay another $299?
I doubt it, they will use that as a hook to make you update again for more or less the same app.
this is what i need too. I do not care about "new features" I just want newer bodies to be supported on an older version! They force me to find unofficial sources tbh. Not getting punished for changing my body, sorry...it's disgusting.
As a subscriber to full Adobe products, I'm always looking to up my game. When Capture One originally came out for my Hasselblad, it appeared to be an interesting software but just for medium format. Fast forward, I decided to take another look. When I saw that they had gone to subscription, I knew that the jig was up. I don't have a problem with subscription software, as long as the updates are free and frequent but not in your face ripoffs. This has now happened to Portrait Pro as well. Although they are not subscription (yet), they still have these annual upgrades that provide little to no creative updates worth paying for. This was the problem with Windows platforms for decades. They would fall short on a fix for software that THEY created, then charged for an update that should have been free. As a Mac user we never pay for upgrades, just hardware. I know it's expensive but at least they are consistent with fixes. Capture One could learn a thing or two from Apple. Charge a fair premium price, with FREE updates.
Im just curious Is there any open source software to compete
There's is, but it doe snot really complete sadly from what I have seen
I’m seriously thinking of switching back to Lightroom. Years ago, I told them how screwed up their crop tool was and they basically just told me I was using it wrong. I shouldn’t have to click the hand icon every time I want to straighten or crop an image. To make it take effect. And every time I watermark an image, the move watermark hand tool is always turned off. It should default on. Simple usability items that don’t work are just infuriating.
I was also pondering buying a new license over Black Friday, I am glad I didn’t now. If I want a subscription based product I may as well stick with LR.
You nailed exactly my sentiment. I bought the one-off license for C1 in 2020 after having switched to Fujifilm. I am a hobby photographer and had been using Lightroom 5 for a long time and like it a lot, but was baulking at the Adobe subscription price/model. Even after 2.5 years of C1 I have not warmed up to it and now that they are starting to effectively push their customers also to a subscription model, I might as well return to Lightroom.
I primarily use Lightroom and bought Capture One licenses largely because I shoot Fuji XT series cameras and I wanted to have that option for tricky photos. Silly me I purchased the early bird upgrade and now they decide to change game to my detriment. Needless to say, I am done with Capture One.
Yea it's not actually better for Fuji anyways
Very Interesting IM NOT A GREAT TECH PERSON, i used lightroom for developing pictures from my fuji cameras and I used to be annoyed at the worms on the raw files so I got capture one which did give better results, After seeing your video I will have to take a closer look before I pay the 2023 subscription to capture one , Thank you
Ya I have another video about the worms. They really are not an issue anymore in LR.
I was already pissed at C1 even before this. Years ago I bought C1 because I didn't like the SAS model Adobe uses. But I kind of got screwed, bought it right before the cutoff for the upgrade to the new version. After that I paid for a couple new versions despite very few features. I also started having some issues. I keep my RAW images on my NAS, I thought the whole point of C1's database was that you could edit your files from your locally stored database. But whenever I open my catalog of 6000+ images it would take 30 minutes to generate the thumbnails every single time (because it was looking at the files on the NAS instead of the ones in the local cache folder) Contacted support who told me to try a couple things (I had told them i'd already tried) then pretty much ignored me.
Then I upgraded my camera from a Sony A7III to A7IV and the RAW files wouldn't open. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a modular patch you can apply to previous versions to support a new camera. Especially when I saw people who said if you edit the EXIF data so it thinks its an A7III the files opened with no issues. I didn't really want to go that route. But now they want another $200 for minimal new features just so I can open files from a new camera. I'd already paid hundreds for minimum new features just to stay current. Did the math and it would have been cheaper for me to just go with an Adobe subscription even skipping a year or 2 of upgrades. $200/year for C1 with crappy support, broken features vs $120 a year for Lightroom which also comes with Photoshop, a great mobile version of LR (I think I've heard C1 is releasing an app - iOS only, and making you pay for that separately) and 20GB of cloud storage.
Generally I like to support companies that offer perpetual licenses, I have a Davinci Resolve Studio license (even though I probably could make due with the free one) and I have Affinity Photo which is also a great app. They both seem to have really customer friendly licensing terms and are great non SAS options. But I'll happily subscribe to the Adobe photo plan over buying C1, whose 'perpetual' license seem to be in name only to lure people in then price gouge them worse than Adobe.
Yes, you will need capture one 23 if you just bought a camera body that was just newly released. Maybe Capture one has predicted that there would be a boom in new camera models end of last year and this year....that is why capture one 23's upgrading is so incremental
I think most won't, since they are leaving Capture one and going back to LR. Phase One had their chance and they blew it.
I was so annoyed. I upgraded before Black Friday 5 weeks prior when they let the 22 ones update for a special intro price. I ended up paying more that Black Friday price for my loyalty. Had upgraded from 20 to 21 to 22 more so to support an alternative to LR. Also, before I complained about that I went ahead and bought all their styles to show my support and after that said look already bought your styles to at Black Friday 50% off but not happy that you charged me more as a loyal customer just 5 weeks ago and now Black Friday is much cheaper. Their response was a terrible “boiler plate” we can’t offer prices to everyone otherwise we’d be discounting all the time for everyone. Oh god… what a way to keep a very loyal customer and someone who doesn’t need upgrades but does it to support you happy. I am annoyed!!!!!
They are out of touch and its sad to seem them falling when they had so much potential. They have bad leadership. Remember if you use any of my style packs (which are way better then then the official ones) they include both LR and C1 versions so you don't have to worry about a switch.
I hear you. We need more competition in this area.
i just got C1 2023. i dont know if i should feel pissed or tricked because im still using LR 5.71. my wife and daughter have the 2 licenses for LR 6 but im trying to get my daughter to give hers back, just to see what's what.
i dont like the subscription because in the long run it costs way more and if i dont pay, im out of luck. i guess im stuck using Canon's DPP. i dont like that either
I hear you. But honestly LR + PS only costs $10/mo. You get years of double the apps for the price of capture one for one year, even if you don't renew every year it's really not way more costly.
Been with Capture One since 2016 but last year when they announced their new subscription/upgrade model I was like damn it's time to switch. When I've got software like Davinci Resolve Studio where I only pay once and the Affinity products where you only pay for a major upgrade once ever 4 to 5 years the Capture One model just look flat out greedy to me. As a creator there are so many products you have to use depending on, in your workflow and the thought of having to pay a monthly or yearly subscription for all of them is just insane to me.
As a Sony user I basicly lost my perpetual version of Capture One unless I switch to a new perpetual version that per customer service person R. will not support Sony in RAW conversion. Fuji only seems to be the (new?) strategy. Perpetual is the key word here. What is going on?
All seems resolved. I retain my license an need not ask the EU fair consumer rights devision for guidance as promised. All is well that ends well.
NOt really though. In the end they will find a way to make you pay. It's what Phase One does.
I am so glad I didn't upgrade during black Friday. I have a C1 22 pro (p.license). I felt Sony didn’t offer much in C1 23. Wow, you can now change the dates (pff). I’ll only update if they do A. I like Lightroom. But with Sony’s new move, I may leave.
They are not getting rid of perpetual users but they have been placed near a funnel. I was starting to think the same should I go sub it's cheaper but then the same amount of sub gets me Lightroom and photoshop.
You are spot on unfortunately. Like many others I just got Capture One, for the reason that I despise the abbonement model that Adobe is running and to support some competition and now I have the same shit here even worse.
You are right I think.
Some years ago, I bought the expensive Adobe CS5.5 suite, around 18 months later they announced their subscription only model, which I was (& still am) determined not to sign up to. I continued to use CS5.5 for as long as possible, but a new camera purchase resulted in files not opening in my old CS5.5 version of PS (I subsequent found a work around), and I switched to C1 (perpetual) for the majority of my photo editing (onky going into my old PS to do things I can’t do in C1).
The thing that has made me unhappy with C1 has been when more recent newer versions have arrived that as an existing owner/user, I got a discount to upgrade to lates version, but this discount over the years has been watered down so much to the point where special offers for new users have even been cheaper (I think I may even have upgraded that way once, essentially buying a totally new second version). Frankly, it’s an insult to existing loyal customers.
There have been odd years where the upgrade has been minimal in terms of new features, or, at least, I’ve not felt I wanted or needed them. When they introduced layers for the first time, that was a biggie for me, and, from memory, when they subsequently added luminosity masks (I think those two were introduced separately), both were no brainers for me to upgrade to. More recently, they introduced panorama stitching, so I upgraded to that….but here’s the thing, when I tried it, my results were poor, I got much better from my old version of PS….granted, maybe I’ve missed a setting or something in the tool, which then failed to make certain corrections to the image, but the results were not good (I should go back and investigate further sometime).
So, now I hear that ‘23 doesn’t add anything worth while over ‘22, & from memory, they want £180 from me to upgrade to it, AND now they are screwing folk who prefer perpetual licenses.
I can see that they may well lose me as a customer, I’m not going back to Adobe, out of principle, & once I leave C1, I will probably feel the same way about them too, I won’t go back once I feel a company has done the dirty on me.
So, maybe now is the time for me to start looking at cheaper (or even free) alternatives to the big two, while I have the time to and am not painted into a corner. The writing feels like it’s on the wall now….
So the only option left is acdsee
Yeah, I'm struggling with this right now. I took a break from photography for a few years (life happens) - a small part of that was my absolute frustration with Adobe subscriptions demanding the ability to leech onto my bank account and hold my work for ransom. I was using an old version of Capture One - and at the time, it was great with raw files, but overall processing - just didn't compare to Lightroom. Still, I had the license, so I made it work and just stuck with my CS6 version of Photoshop since I own it. Fast forward to now. My ancient Apple is dying, and with it, my access to CS6 and my ancient version of Lightroom. No choice left - have to pick one.
So Adobe, who I despise for popularizing this "You don't OWN anything and if you can't pay up - screw yourself and your images" Or -
$300 bucks for a Capture One license with nothing but the discount on the next huge payout that still doesn't match the subscription price and gets you less. Or - You don't OWN anything, and if you can't pay up - screw yourself and your images. Sounds vaguely familiar.
Clearly - they want the Perpetual license gone. They want that predictable monthly cash flow - I get it. But If they're not going to differentiate on price & features, and they're going to make a perpetual license cost more than a subscription - why would anyone give up on Adobe for less of the same at a higher price.
"They want that predictable monthly cash flow" and not free market capitalism (I feel compelled to add). You're supposed to win your customers over, not hold them hostage.
In such a situation, these greedy corporations understand only the language of financial losses. Customers had to not compromise and simply refuse to pay Adobe. And then the market would force them to reconsider their greedy policy in order to survive. But people are like a herd of rams - they were sent for a subscription and they slavishly agreed. So this pattern continues. 😎
Why is a perpetual license $25 per month? It’s perpetual, so doesn’t it become cheaper per month as you keep using it, if you don’t feel like upgrading? You said it would continue to receive bug updates. Unless you’re a pro do you need all the latest features?
You can get perpetual for $299 without monthly. And it appears to have bug updates for a year only. No Raw compatibility updates etc. In the end LR+PS will give you more for less even if you're juts doing it for fun.
i bought captureone 22 pro, no need to upgrade to 23 pro. I don't want to subscribe. But lightroom is really amazing.
It's like the child who asks for his allowance on Monday and by Wednesday their asking again.
Looking forward to a video about the recent changes. I hated the ones talked about in this video but the one done today is far, far worse.
Wow just saw. People have licenses to this regardless of whether they were free. To simply make their software stop working is insanity
@@Seimstudios Ya it's a crazy thing to do. They haven't even posted on their socials about it. Just email and forum.
Ah Capture one pulled a Filmora... Well we all know how that ended.....
You are totally right. I have been a Capture One owner way back - and tried again a couple of years ago - for a short time. The product is constantly suffering from bugs and bad solutions and the support is not listening. This software was originally developed by dedicated nerds from Copenhagen, who just wanted to create the best, and I was proud of the results for a while. That's in the past. The current management and development feels and looks as if it is executed by gold diggers from the Tel Aviv office. Copenhagen is just a nice European brand. Respect and dialog has become unimportant for this new Capture One management. 'We know better' is the mantra, while time passes without real improvements, and still - Capture One now need our regular payments. Must be frustrating for the fan boys, but can't come as a surprise considering that Capture One for too long has fooled its customers with 'exciting new features' that are everything but exciting or new.
You about nailed it. The brand model of Capture One is arrogance.
The longer I have been on C1, the harder it is becoming for me to justify it, even though I am on a continued special reduction on $11/m (some Black Friday special). I use Affinity Photo as a PS replacement cause I own the software. I might start looking into Adobe/C1 alternatives.
The other day it annoyed me with C1 that I had to re-link my account, it reminded me that if I don't pay C1, I can't use my images. C1 for what it offers, should be about two thirds the price of Adobes' LR & PS subscription.
I’m worried about this also. If I don’t pay them will they hold my photos ransom? Disable my program and keep me from accessing my own photos.
Nice move waiting till after C1 23 is released getting in that early adoption revenue, then dropping the blackmail note, I don't feel cheated at all
I bought Capture One perpetual license this Black Friday and it has since been upgraded. I got the upgrade at no additional cost I love Capture One and its layers. Had Lightroom and Photoshop before they went to subscription BTW, Adobe subscription for LR + PS is now $20/month - not $10/month. Maybe your rant was legit for a year ago, but I much prefer Capture One and it's pricing.
Don't worry you won't keep getting updates. Capture One are very clear on that and they are losing market share for screwing over so many users. Alsothe LR/PS basic bundle is still $0 a month, far cheaper than C1, especially since you still need Photoshop, or something like it to edit equally. Capture One is only the raw editor.
Capture one has a few advantages but LR has a lot more. I would love to see Capture One start listening and pick up their game. Come back in a year and let me know how it went. That said in the use, use what works for you. They are just tools. Buying a Leica is also not practical, but if you love it and its;' what inspires, enjoy.
Lightroom classic makes me want to tear my hair out every single time I use it, downloaded c1 trial the other day to test it but it seems like it’s not worth it. Hate that LrC will save to the wrong drive randomly, terrible search features, laggy af, bad ui. Wish Lr would add the calibration panel from LrC cuz then it would be fully featured
If you dail it in and make a good drive plan etc it does get smother.
Put your catalog and previews on a fast SSD. Then ref all the orginal images from one master drive.
5:55 What do you mean the perpetual license is $300 a year? The definition of perpetual is that it doesnt end. It says it's a one time payment.
It's not really perpetual. You get a license that keeps working bit you get no updates unless you pay again.
@@Seimstudios that's trash. This is part of the reason I switched to davinci and why I'm glad other creators are too.
This is the type of review i like. Lets celebrate the good, but work on the negative part. I am currently paying for LR+Photoshop, got the “perpetual license” for Luminar Neo w/ the add-ons subscription… purchased DaVinci Resolve Studio (the perpetual license) and I get every single (full) update from Blackmagic Design. I don’t need a hold back from a software, this is not a physical upgrade. Like i have to get the new iPhone every single year 🙃 I see myself as a hobbyist as well, looking fwd to make it my own income later on. But I can’t keep paying for more subscriptions. I change between LRC and Luminar Neo depending on what I am working on… and i can even use Luminar Neo as a plugging with LRC. The main reason i was about to checkout C1 is the whole tethering awesomeness people talk about. I rather get Cascable for my iPad and that’s it. I get good results for what I do with the softwares i have. You saved me that checkout. Does that mean that i own you a coffee? 😅
Is there any open source that remotely compares?
Not really. But there are others like OnOne
There is Darktable but there is a bit of a learning curve.
I understand when a company needs new strategies but I don't agree when that harm customers.
Current users with perpetual licenses should be able to purchase upgrades and offer just subscription for future users.
I am at the cusp of being a professional. In 2021 when I bought the perpetual license it was because of the price, and the perpetual license. If I had an option to upgrade to 22 perpetual 'at a decent price', I would have. But the price just seemed to be prohibitive. Subscription would cost the same for the year. And therefore, I skipped 22 and bought 23 at a discounted price. At that point, 23 was cheaper than what 22 had been. And now the 24 subscription is comparable to the 21 subscription. It is a bit more expensive, but marginally. The only reason I stuck with CO is because I have got used to the workflow and editing. It is a bit like whether you would buy a Toyota or a Honda. None is better than the other, I guess. If the Capture One cost had still been prohibitive, I would have switched to Adobe.
I hear you. Though its good to switch somethings and it keeps your editing brain flexible. LR is not that much different to use.
I don’t see myself renting software forever
I am disappointed that Capture One is messing around with Perpetual License holders. I switch from Lightroom to CO to move away from Creative Cloud and Subscription and now after supporting Capture One for V20, V21, and V22, I feel very betrayed by Capture One. We'll see what they "loyalty scheme" is in February, but I have doubts that it's anything to be excited about. V23 is a very lacklustre upgrade from V22.
I agree with you that the upgrades of a year should be included in the in the first year of one perpetual license. The cost of a raw converter as working photographer is peanuts compared to all the other costs and I can't complain on that, maybe for hobby its a lot with 200-400 per year on software. Do you guys remember in the past what we had to pay for Adobe PS 500-700 usd for just that itteration. The whole Adobe suite for 2500usd. It's a lot easier these days. I think if I was a hobbyist I would get C1 one perpetual license and use it for 2-3 years. Version 23 is very good for years to come pair it with PS or Affinity or some other AI post work suite, What's there to miss, really.
As a CaptureOne 22 user I agree that 23 has no features I want EXCEPT support for the Sony A7RV. They won't even update camera support on older versions so I basically would have to pay $199 just to be able to view/edit files for my new camera.
Ya it sucks. To be fair LR does that also when it comes to new cameras. It's the new camera tax no one talks about.
@@Seimstudios But you can't get LR without a subscription right?
@@Seimstudios LR doesn't have perpetual licenses so no, that doesn't apply. They may take their time providing support for new models but as you're in the SaaS hell anyway you don't pay anything extra for it.
I agree. Phase One's pricing has become so geared towards its professional main market that as a retiree I can no longer entertain upgrades. I skipped on V23 and I continue to enjoy using 22 which with its panorama inclusion meant I could ditch LR. I may well return to LR, especially since your video comments show that the gap has closed. I've been an amateur C1 customer since about 2007.
Not even that. The profession main market uses Lightroom mostly as it doe most things better now. More are jumping ship on C1 all the time it seems. It's such potential wasted because their their arrogance.
Thanks for that insight. @@Seimstudios
They are now deprecating all versions of express. I'll pack my things and move softwares
Agree with you completely. I recently bought into the fuji system which I love and moved from Adobe to Capture One. I'll give C1 until Feb to see what they have to offer with their loyalty scheme but I envisage I'll be switching back to Adobe. While C1 undoubtedly handles RAF files better than LR, I don't find the 'worming' issue in Lr to be too bad.
Honestly I find LR now handles the files and worms just as well as C1. But we'll do a full review in the new year.
@@Seimstudios I still see the worming from my last wedding thats why I moved to capture one. settings is not accurate but from memory its bright enough not to use flash indoor, using 300iso. i cant remember the exact iso but wormings was bad at low iso underexposed no flash.
Kinda explains why they can offer a 50% discount for black friday. Non-updating otp is almost as bad as subscription based services
Worse, because it's just bait to get you to pay more later
I agree completely, Capture One is ripping off its loyal customers! I have been using Capture One since about 2003 and have owned two Phase One digital backs and they have always been a bit of a rip off but this new subscription pricing is just plain greedy. Back in about 2009 I had my then P31 digital back serviced and it cost a whopping 3000 UK pounds! That was more than buying most decent DSLR's back then just for a checkover! Always been a rip off company.
I think claiming that Capture One is "screwing over" perpetual licence holders is an exaggeration. In the future perpetual license holders will receive significantly fewer bug fixes -- which is a problem since bugs are not exactly a non-issue in C1 -- and updates will likely become more expensive. I reckon given how frequent major releases will be and how underwhelming new features have been for a while now, it will become difficult by demonstrating any "loyalty" that Capture One will reward with discounts. That's not good, but not exactly "screwing over" customers, AFAC. In my view, it is worse that Capture One has seemed to have lost the plot regarding product design. Not only are they not fixing longstanding bugs and are not listening to popular feature requests and are instead introducing extensions they believe will open up new customer markets, they actually made the UI worse a number of times. In one instance, the backlash by users was so intense that they back-pedalled and restored the previous design but the very fact that they implemented the worse version demonstrates that someone at Capture One does not know what they are doing. Sadly, the same mistake (modal dialogue) was repeated for the latest "culling feature". A lot of missed opportunities for Capture One which is a real shame because the software has a number of very nice features and was on a great trajectory around version C1 9. Somewhere around version C1 12, it all went downhill, AFAIC. Some glimpses of good feature additions / fixes since then but mostly changes / additions that either mean nothing for my style of photography or made using C1 worse. Unfortunately, in parallel, upgrade pricing became ridiculously expensive after a number of substantial price hikes to the upgrade prices.
1) perpetual license owners no longer get even a full year of updates, only up to the next version they decide to release, whenever that may be - and they are strongly suggesting it will be more often than once year. Already the said with 23 you'll get updates only for 9 months. Nothing is stopping them from changing versions even faster in the future.
2) the upgrade price has more than doubled from my last time. Also, if I wanted to "upgrade" my perpetual license to a subscription I would get a discount of .... 0e? Buying a new subscription costs exactly the same as does that "upgrade".
If I buy a new license I expect to get updates for it at least for a year. Not 9 months or less. But even if they "only" released a new version every 9 months the perpetual license is still so much more expensive if you were to buy every version. And at least for me (a v20 owner) the upgrade prices were just ridiculous. Photography is just a hobby for me and I make no money out of it. C1's new licensing scheme means I will have to look elsewhere for tools. I moved out from LR long time ago to escape SaaS hell, but if SaaS is the only option, I'll rather take LR+PS for less money than just the C1. I'm going to miss it, but I just can't afford it. And I'm not sure v20 will work well with Ventura, not to mention the next one after that, and I rather move before I find out I'm totally screwed.
The upgrade prices got bigger and bigger and now there isn't even an upgrade price anymore... it's essentially buying a completely new utterly expensive license. Then they announced they finally will release an iPad app, but it is subscription only and you will need at least a v23 which you now have to buy either full price or a subscription that is extremely expensive for just one program. They made it impossible to further use the workflow photographers are used to for many years... this is IMHO very clearly "screwing over" the old customers.
I “needed” 23 because I skipped 22 and my 21 was apparently not new enough to be compatible with the r5c raw files EXCEPT if you changed the metadata to read R5 instead of r5c because they’re the same damned files… I thought it was adorable that my special upgrade cost they offered for being a loyal customer was MORE than the brand new price when it went on sale…. still leaving a bad taste in my mouth and it’s the last version of their software I’ll ever buy
Although it all sounds overly complicated to me, C1 have said nothing about getting rid of perpetual licenses (at least not for now), and they have said that for those who want to continue with perpetual licenses there will be no increase in costs over the current perpetual license cost.
The "annual" new versions will be dropped so no more year based naming system, and they will revert back to version numbers (currently release 16). Throughout the life of a version, perpetual license holders will get bug fixes but no new features added, Subscribers will get bug fixes and new features.
When the next version is released (release 17) perpetual license holders will be able to update to release 17, and get all the new features that were added during the life of V16. If you have perpetual license bought before February 2023 (V23/release 16) you will get all the new features until end of September 2023. These new versions won't be tied to an annual cycle.
Currently if you miss two version upgrades you will need to pay the full price again, but with this new scheme it looks as if missing a single upgrade will force you into paying full price again. I am guessing the announced "loyalty" programme, will be some sort of lower cost option if you agree to upgrade at every release.
Unfortunately, its even more complicated than the above and it looks as if, while displeasing many, they are actually "trying" to please everyone.
They have a support page about the licensing which is being regularly updated, and for those concerned it's worth checking out.
support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/7998068628637?page=9#comments
I mean. When you get less for the same price, that's a price increase.
@@Seimstudios Yes, you could look at it this way.
I run perpetual licensing on c1. I hate adobe’s business model and it’s a terrible company. I work in IT and they’re HORRIBLE to deal with.
I just don’t upgrade every year. I’ve had C1 20 Fuji only license for like 3 years and I might upgrade next year. So I’ve paid something like 4-5 dollars a month by the time I upgrade.
No big deal. I think my output is worthy of charging for considering what I do with it. Overall decently happy that I’m not giving Adobe any more money at the moment.
The problem is Phase One just became worse than adobe. Not sure you read the fine print. You no longer get updates even for a year with your perpetual license. You have to pay again every time a new feature comes out of you want it.
@@Seimstudios yeah - I just don't care about the updates. Which has made it a very capable and extremely cheap option. I don't early adopt much of anything and I can live with limited features for prolonged periods of time without really impacting my work much at all.
@@dallastuttle3851 That's fair
What exactly is behind Capture one's decision to dump a lot of it's loyal customers ?
It can't just be for financial reasons. Is there something we are not being told ?
There management seems to have gone totally off the rails
They trust many people will complain but eventually still give in. Or something?
I'm not, I can't afford the new system.
It's simple. This is a text book example of Corporate avarice and stupidity.
If they are anything like Adobe, they are making massive profits, but want even more. It's not enough for a company to have a good product and make a reasonable profit. They see themselves as the next Elon Musk.
The real comparison to me is Affinity Suite which you can also get for about $180 and that is for Mac, Windows and iPad! I wanted to stick with Capture One but Affinity Photo is the more important tool so until they make some MAJOR changes to the licensing and features before the 2024 version I am sadly going to have to leave it behind. It just isn't as important as Affinity.
Sadly Affinity is not a comparison to either C1 or LR. Affinity is a layer editing like Photoshop and while it;'s a good app for the money, it does not replace a RAW style editing like LR. If you think you'll be able to replace C1 with only affinity I think you'll be disappointed.
@@Seimstudios It does most of what I use C1 for. Capture One is a great tool at a lot of things but its lack of object layers makes it the least important of the two tools in my workflow.
I've never liked LR so it doesn't make sense for me to compare that product. I always needed to do further touch up in PS which to me defeats the whole point of DAM tool.
@@KipVaughan It's a good app and if it works great. But it's not a comparison. You're comparing a Photoshop Like app to a LR like app and the two are fundamentally different. If you are a slow 1 at a time image editor that's fine. But it's not a workflow solution and can't replace LR or C1 in a practical way. Affinity competes with Photoshop.
@@Seimstudios For a good amount of the time I was on C1 I had been using it for old film photo scans. For an example one of the features in the lasted version of C1 is that it can do a better job at detecting and correcting spots which is something you do A LOT on film.
I am just trying to make the point that there are a many reasons why someone might use C1 and batch editing may not even be some ones reason. Another reason I used C1 for that it allowed me to make sessions rather then the enormous catalog files of LR. That is one of the examples of C1 and LR not really competing with each other because the workflow in that one area is so different.
It’s one of the most poorly conceived and poorly communicated ideas in product history.
I've used C1 since Apple killed Aperture. I was forced to upgrade on Black Friday to get Sony A7RV support. My response to being subsequently screwed is twofold.
I have abandoned all plans to ever buy any Phase One product.
I am transitioning to Affinity. Phase One/Capture One will never see another penny from me.
This as a textbook example of corporate idiocy, customer abuse, and greed.
I hear you. But bear in mind that Affinity is just competition for a Photoshop pixel based editor. It will not fill the place of a RAW editor like LR or C1
Not a little bit of a problem. They have turned off a large part of their customer base.
According to Caputure One devs two thirds of their users are already on sub. I cannot believe them.
"and introducing changes to the way licensing works." They kind of just slipped that in at the end, sneaky like. Hope no one notices.
\🌚/ it's called 'Old Wine In New Bags'.
I watch your videos and wonder how much Adobe pay you?
Not a dime. They don't even give me review copies anymore because I've hated on Adobe for many years on the podcast for all the bad things they have done. That's why these reviews are so objective tests. I pay for everything we are testing.
I moved back to lightroom when I did the calculations after they "improved" capture one. Its ridiculous.
I don't get those fanboys enjoying getting screwed. But can't win over unreasonable ppl anyway. I have to use LR and CO together, so I appreciate all this info for me to make right decisions for my business.
I see differences in detail on my Fuji files from LR to C1
If you're seeing better results in C1 it's prob because your using old LR or your not using LR correctly because C1 is not better in any way that I can quantify. It's smoke and mirrors.
Talked me out of buying C1. The subscription model does not suit my usage.
My biggest fear is how to convert back to Lightroom all my Mastin Labs presets are for CaptureOne. I wish there was an easy way, I feel trapped.
Never let yourself be trapped over software. Both are solid options. In the case of my Filmist presets they are both for LR and C1 and I don't charge extra for using both at any time. I'm not sure about Matson, but you could ask them.
user since C1 v7 Express whiuch introduced me to the program, To say I'm pissed is an understatement. I'm seriously considering an Intel based MAC so that I can use my legacy copies of LR6/PS6 even though I have maxed out MAC Mini M1, iPad Pro and Macbook AIR M1 just because of C1's screwing it's dedicated users as well as Adobe's Ransomware ...C1 can FOAD as far as I'm concerned...
At least adobe is accessible and keeping ahead of C1 in most areas. LR6 is do dated at this point.
The greed of Phase One knows no bounds. I used C1 for years, and was fairly satisfied, but now I'm out. I'll never pay them another penny.
I know the cost of living in Copenhagen is very high, but their program is not worth $100s of dollars; it's barely worth $50. Wait, I think I've got it:
their cameras cost $25,000, so the software to use with them should cost $500-1000. What a deal!
I use Luminar Neo, Affinity Photo, Photomatix Pro, and Graphic Converter - all great products for the price!
Guys it’s not a difficult concept: if you want to buy it once and use it forever you buy a perpetual license. You don’t get any updates (like when we used to buy software on CD)
If you’re going to upgrade every year then you subscribe to the monthly model.
That’s not punishment, that’s just what a perpetual license is.
Lol, no it's not. Are you still buying CD's in the 90's. All perceptual licenses for the past 20 or so years have come with at least a year of updates. Monthly models are a recent thing. Make excuses for C1 all you like, but it's not working out for them.
I am big sad. Wish I just went with adobe..
Yes, I did buy the license in November and when I saw the ending of perpetual license I just got mad. I guess I'll return to Lr. No way I'm paying 25$ a month. In fact my all idea was to get rid of subscriptions.
I hear you
The price now for me is $420 less 20% and its a joke. B+H had it for half the price until C1 called B+H to up the price. The perp plan is a way to get people frustrated and hope they go sub. You are right Adobe is cheaper and includes PS. For a C1 perp user this discount is a joke with real no innovation. C1 has really pissed of its users. So I now plan to continue using C1 16.2 while I trial other software and decide what to do. However as a perp user I always upgraded C1 for many years. C1 is punishing its perp users. Then other thing is if you go sub you lose your perp license! Sub users are flying first class but at a high price while the rest of us are in cargo being jerked around and punished. IMO in time they will kill the perp license.
I am a old C1 20 user and was thinking of upgrading to C1 23. But after I read that the news in C1 23 is not worth a upgrade.
Then I'm a Sony A7R III user.
After this video there will be no C1 23 but I will go back to LH,
Why : A) Price 200$ for a upgrade from C1 - 20 to C1 - 23 crazy .... Specially if i won't be able to get new features and fix/bug for less then a year - No thanks Capture ONE
We customers are not idiot's like you think Capture One.
Yes i've just found out i need to pay $500 to avoid paying for the subscrition version, after paying $400 for the original version i bought :(
Ya they have priced the non subscription out of reality. It's not a practical option.
That's very lame, I was all set to jump on the C1 train. I can't support companies that do stuff like this, I don't really want to buy a Lightroom subscription either despite actually enjoying the software.
I still pay 8 monthly
That's good while it lasts. But you're still paying only $1 less than if you had PS amd LR combined so my the time you add a good pixel editor in you are still paying a lot more.
I contacted Capture One for clarity on the loyalty programme.
After I checked out the link they sent back, this was the rest of the convo:
Me:
Thanks.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, and Capture One want to release features multiple times a year, rather than one big annual release, my upgrade will cost £179 every single time - if I want to stay up-to-date - So, say £719 per year if you do 4 feature updates? Am I understanding this correctly?
Capture One:
Yes, if you own a perpetual license, each feature release will require to buy a new one.
Absolutely crazy. Thansk for this update. I'm about to do mu 2023 review.
@Seim Yeah, I lost all interest in taking the convo any further, after that.
I have C1 22, and love the way it works, but I'm shopping around.
The noise reduction in DXO Photolab 6 looks amazing; so it's a likely purchase, but I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on my C1 purchase date, and see if they've made it worth my while when the 12th month is coming up.
(Maybe) I'll purchase a single update per year; if it's honestly worth it, but I'm beyond disappointed by them.
The frame rate from your video not that smooth whenever you keep moving
Ya on these combo streams where I'm doing heavy editing and recording video it sometimes lags. I need a new graphics card.
This video is all based on your speculation on what Capture may or may not do. Maybe wait until February and see what they are actual saying and doing.
No it's based on what Capture ONe said and what they are doing. Though they may very well backtrack because they are catching so much flack/
@@Seimstudios th-cam.com/video/nZG1ExcHH_Q/w-d-xo.html
Well it's March :)
Glad i read this. I won't do subscriptions. But capture one has gone too far. I am using open source rawtherapee 5.9 but it has problems with canon cr3 file meta data. And it doesn't seem to have bugs fixed very often. Is darktable the way to go? I have no idea. Anyway i won't be wasting money on capture one. Thanks for the video.
There's no open source apps that are contenders with the paid apps yet. If you refuse to have a subscription at this point you simple have to work without as good of software. You could use OnOne or Luminar, but you will pay a premium for not having a subscription.
Anyone interested in a class action fraud suit? Please let me know if you need a joiner to the suit.