I really enjoyed the videos on the corvair engine build. I learned a lot of good info and appreciate you sharing with us backyard builders. I understand the cleanliness goes a long way later on. I have seen people put engines together in the back yard with dirt every where, always wondered how long it would last!!
I am the grasshut just signed into a different email right now. A little sealant on the case halves would not be bad, but you need to use the right stuff. If you go to a motorcycle dealer, in the parts department they sell a sealer that is made for motorcycle case halves. This would be the stuff to use, and use VERY lightly. If you can see it on there, it is enough. I would also only use it where the case parting line is visible.
Thank you. My day job is building race car engines, mostly comp dragster, top dragster and Pro Mod. So the engines range from small like 632 with as little as 1200 or more HP to big (lets just say between 800 and 900 inches) and anywhere from 3500 to 5000 HP. So details are important!
Thank you very much for the kind words. I have seen "professional" builders do the work dirty also! I remember when I was working for Booth-Arons, we wanted to buy some new equipment so the sales guy took us to an engine shop to see some of the equipment in action.In this "pro" engine shop, I saw the tear down guys turning motors over with a pipe wrench on the crank snout! And if you read their sales literature, you would swear they build the motors for the space shuttle! LOL!
Which bearings are you referring to? GM did not produce the Corvair with cam bearings. I owned my first Corvair in 1964, it was a 1963 Monza 110hp. My second one I bought in 1967, it was a 1965 Corsa convertible 14ohp while I was in Army helicopter pilot training. My I kept that one through 1972. But while still in the Army and stationed at the Army's Primary Rotary Flight Training School, I bought a second 1966 Corsa and another 1963 Spyder 150hp Turbo for my little brother. And in 1976, I bought a 1966 Monza 110 convertible that I kept until 1997. During that time, I converted it into a Yenko Stage IV street car complete with most of Otto Parts improvements, a set of Scheel German touring seats, air conditioning, and pearl over bright white paint, black interior, a set of Carrol Shelby Europa wheels, and even bored out the carbs like Don Yenko did on the original cars and added alcohol/water injection, CD ignition, and rebuilt the engine and restored the car twice during. None of the Corvairs I owned had cam bearings, So, some bright young engineer or Arch Old Bastard must have figured out how to bore out the cam journals and fit some in the car. I still get Clark's Corvair Parts catalogs in Shelburne, MA and they have developed FI for the pancake engine along with buying out Otto Parts and all the stock from Fitch. I'm not busting your chops, but as far as I know, no models of the Corvair have ever had cam bearings, even though it looks like the cam journals may have bearing shells in them. The problem is that all other Corvair enthuists know this, too, and while you have done a beautiful job with the rest of the block with the Gyptal paint in the valley areas and a spotless block, credibility is lost. It is interesting that crankshaft counter balances and arms were painted with Gyptal, did the crank get rebalanced afterwards. I know how strong the cranks were, but out-of-balance rotation would set up harmonic vibration that would most likely cause the crank to break regardless of how hard its metal is or the chemical treatment that was done to the crank bearing journals. And I watched with interest, your cam timing dial-in process. The way I do it is to first make sure that the cam is in registration with the crank. Then set a dial indicator to measure the movement off the effective lifter (since the pistons have not yet been installed and timing wheel up, rotate the two a few rotations, bring the timing back to TDC and recheck to ensure the crank and cam are at TDC, too. If it isn't, the engine has to be pulled apart, the crank timing gear has to be pulled off, timing changed with a degree off-set woodruff key to properly set initial engine timing, then put back together, and the process repeated until accurate timing is achieved. To reply to one of the earlier commenters, it isn't hard, just tedious and time consuming. On an historical note, the Corvair engine is based on the old Franklin aircraft engine design. It, too, did not have cam bearings and in fact the first two or three years of the Corvair had Franklin casting marks in the GM engine blocks. GM bought their original molds to cast the engine block halves, cylinders, and cylinder heads from Franklin. I hope the rest of the engine build goes well.
I assume you are not a fan Plastiguage. Or are the mikes just something you're comfortable with? I mike everything but always final check with Plastiguage. It has saved me embarrassment a few times.
No not a fan of plastigage. The right way to do it is with a mic and dial bore gauge. I have worked with George DeLorean, Bob Glidden, Dick Arons, Harold Martin, Richard Maskin, and one thing they all have in common is they don't use plastigage.
@@rpmqualityautoservice8337 Good for them! I do as many checks as are possible. That's just me, I wasn't suggesting you or anyone else take it up as a practice. However, you say you're not a fan, what is your specific dislike of Plastigage? If there's some sort of hidden hazard, I'd be grateful to know.
would you recommend to run a full syntetic oil after a complete rebuild? i know that VW people get alot more cooling after going to a fully to a full syntetic oil
I believe you are thinking of a "Billet" crank shaft. Those are machined from a big chunk of steel. Forged cranks are hammered. A hot piece of steel goes down the line and a machine hammers it into the form of the crank. Some V8's are forged flat, and then "twisted" to make the throws in the right spots. Not real fond of the forging that has been twisted. I prefer the forging to not be twisted. There is some argument over which is better, billet crank or forged crank. Forged cranks have a lot of stress introduced in them, and also change the molecular shape of the steel. Billet cranks do not have the stress, but also do not have the molecular shape of the steel changed. In racing I have seen both work and both fail, so,..... the argument continues I guess!
Thank you for responding. I think the confusion was caused by my viewing the parts of this presentation out of sequence. The Corvair remains one of the bettered engineered vehicles in our time, too bad it was a victim of Nader's blind ambitions to control American consumer thought. He took advantage of Americans in experience with handling characteristics or rear-engine cars. I believe that the tried to pull the same scam on Porsche and VW, but those two companies were willing to pay him off while GM told him to go pound sand.
Xavier, it is not that hard but you must be mindful of details. Parts must be clean, sizes need to be right, steps must not be skipped. take your time and check everything .
No idea if Poland Franklin parts would interchange. My guess would be not. Also, I am unfamiliar with what AP/IA stands for. Could you educate me on that? Thank you!
Thank you! I worked at a place and built 50 engines with 1 tube of Lucas bearing lube. My boss built 7 engines with the same amount! I would have 1, 2, maybe 3 dime sized drips in my drip tray, his drip trays were filled with bearing lube!
Now that I've seen the other videos, my sincerest apologies, as you say later, "Never take anything for granted," I did and now trying to correct my comments on your Dial-In procedures. A 55 gallon barrel is impossible to miss. It does remain a mystery about the cam bearings.
Lucky, seems I am not able to find some of your mesage now, so all I remember is your question about cam bearings. Corvair engines do have cam bearings, it is just the aluminum case. It is a matter of semantics I believe. I had the "bearing area" of the case coated with an anti friction coating. You were reading "cam bearings" and thinking I meant bearing inserts, which as you pointed out, Corvairs do not have. I probably should have just refered to it as the cam "bearing surface" on the case. That is what I had coated. How much help is that??? Who knows! It will reduce friction, but I think the biggest gain is I do not have the hard cam journals running on the soft aluminum. I did it mainly because I can. No real big deal. I know you made some other comments but since I cannot find the post I cannot address them. Feel free to email me at grasshutperformance@gmail.com Thank you Tom
Th cam bearings are simply the bearing area on the case itself, you are, of course, correct that there are no bearing "inserts" but the cam does bear on a part of the case, and that would be the cam bearing area. I simply had that part of the case coated to reduce friction. Sorry about taking years to reply! LOL! I am now working building pro race motors, mostly for dragsters, so my time is even more limited than before!
Yeah, I have to get to that. I am working building pro race motors now, mostly dragsters, so time is a big issue. But there has been some work done toward #3. I have changed things just a bit and have 2 turbos to add to the motor! Should be fun. Please be patient, have a very demanding job, not to mention my cancer relapsed so will be having to fight that again, it is a slow cancer so may be able to wait a year or so, till then we watch, still heavy work load at job, dr visits often, and have some of my own cars to fix! But we will get to it!
Amazing attention to every detail. Nothing left to chance! This engine will run forever.
Thank you. My day job building NHRA legal race engines helps a lot!
I really enjoyed the videos on the corvair engine build. I learned a lot of good info and appreciate you sharing with us backyard builders. I understand the cleanliness goes a long way later on. I have seen people put engines together in the back yard with dirt every where, always wondered how long it would last!!
The service manual says to put sealer on the crankcase, what's your opinion on that
I am the grasshut just signed into a different email right now. A little sealant on the case halves would not be bad, but you need to use the right stuff. If you go to a motorcycle dealer, in the parts department they sell a sealer that is made for motorcycle case halves. This would be the stuff to use, and use VERY lightly. If you can see it on there, it is enough. I would also only use it where the case parting line is visible.
thank you for this series . some would call all this overkill , i call it just enough to be perfect
Thank you. My day job is building race car engines, mostly comp dragster, top dragster and Pro Mod. So the engines range from small like 632 with as little as 1200 or more HP to big (lets just say between 800 and 900 inches) and anywhere from 3500 to 5000 HP. So details are important!
@SCBianchi Thank you. I figured since no one else made these that I should step up and make them. Sure makes the job easier!
Tom
This is more like a racing aircraft engine modify & rebuild! Interested in the engine oil recommendation here.
Sorry I did not reply sooner, did not see your message till today. Thank you for the kind words
6:05 *cries in BMW M54
Thank you very much for the kind words. I have seen "professional" builders do the work dirty also! I remember when I was working for Booth-Arons, we wanted to buy some new equipment so the sales guy took us to an engine shop to see some of the equipment in action.In this "pro" engine shop, I saw the tear down guys turning motors over with a pipe wrench on the crank snout! And if you read their sales literature, you would swear they build the motors for the space shuttle! LOL!
Which bearings are you referring to? GM did not produce the Corvair with cam bearings. I owned my first Corvair in 1964, it was a 1963 Monza 110hp. My second one I bought in 1967, it was a 1965 Corsa convertible 14ohp while I was in Army helicopter pilot training. My I kept that one through 1972. But while still in the Army and stationed at the Army's Primary Rotary Flight Training School, I bought a second 1966 Corsa and another 1963 Spyder 150hp Turbo for my little brother. And in 1976, I bought a 1966 Monza 110 convertible that I kept until 1997. During that time, I converted it into a Yenko Stage IV street car complete with most of Otto Parts improvements, a set of Scheel German touring seats, air conditioning, and pearl over bright white paint, black interior, a set of Carrol Shelby Europa wheels, and even bored out the carbs like Don Yenko did on the original cars and added alcohol/water injection, CD ignition, and rebuilt the engine and restored the car twice during.
None of the Corvairs I owned had cam bearings, So, some bright young engineer or Arch Old Bastard must have figured out how to bore out the cam journals and fit some in the car. I still get Clark's Corvair Parts catalogs in Shelburne, MA and they have developed FI for the pancake engine along with buying out Otto Parts and all the stock from Fitch. I'm not busting your chops, but as far as I know, no models of the Corvair have ever had cam bearings, even though it looks like the cam journals may have bearing shells in them.
The problem is that all other Corvair enthuists know this, too, and while you have done a beautiful job with the rest of the block with the Gyptal paint in the valley areas and a spotless block, credibility is lost.
It is interesting that crankshaft counter balances and arms were painted with Gyptal, did the crank get rebalanced afterwards. I know how strong the cranks were, but out-of-balance rotation would set up harmonic vibration that would most likely cause the crank to break regardless of how hard its metal is or the chemical treatment that was done to the crank bearing journals.
And I watched with interest, your cam timing dial-in process. The way I do it is to first make sure that the cam is in registration with the crank. Then set a dial indicator to measure the movement off the effective lifter (since the pistons have not yet been installed and timing wheel up, rotate the two a few rotations, bring the timing back to TDC and recheck to ensure the crank and cam are at TDC, too. If it isn't, the engine has to be pulled apart, the crank timing gear has to be pulled off, timing changed with a degree off-set woodruff key to properly set initial engine timing, then put back together, and the process repeated until accurate timing is achieved. To reply to one of the earlier commenters, it isn't hard, just tedious and time consuming.
On an historical note, the Corvair engine is based on the old Franklin aircraft engine design. It, too, did not have cam bearings and in fact the first two or three years of the Corvair had Franklin casting marks in the GM engine blocks. GM bought their original molds to cast the engine block halves, cylinders, and cylinder heads from Franklin. I hope the rest of the engine build goes well.
I assume you are not a fan Plastiguage. Or are the mikes just something you're comfortable with? I mike everything but always final check with Plastiguage. It has saved me embarrassment a few times.
No not a fan of plastigage. The right way to do it is with a mic and dial bore gauge. I have worked with George DeLorean, Bob Glidden, Dick Arons, Harold Martin, Richard Maskin, and one thing they all have in common is they don't use plastigage.
Sorry replied from wrong account, I am grasshut performance
@@rpmqualityautoservice8337 Good for them! I do as many checks as are possible. That's just me, I wasn't suggesting you or anyone else take it up as a practice.
However, you say you're not a fan, what is your specific dislike of Plastigage? If there's some sort of hidden hazard, I'd be grateful to know.
Talks a bit too much. Goes on for 2 mins about using too much assembly lube… 10-20 secs is enough
I have had Corvairs for years also. Friends with Lon Wall of Corvair Underground.
would you recommend to run a full syntetic oil after a complete rebuild? i know that VW people get alot more cooling after going to a fully to a full syntetic oil
is the forged craankshft cnc'ed out oof a forged block?
I believe you are thinking of a "Billet" crank shaft. Those are machined from a big chunk of steel. Forged cranks are hammered. A hot piece of steel goes down the line and a machine hammers it into the form of the crank. Some V8's are forged flat, and then "twisted" to make the throws in the right spots. Not real fond of the forging that has been twisted. I prefer the forging to not be twisted. There is some argument over which is better, billet crank or forged crank. Forged cranks have a lot of stress introduced in them, and also change the molecular shape of the steel. Billet cranks do not have the stress, but also do not have the molecular shape of the steel changed. In racing I have seen both work and both fail, so,..... the argument continues I guess!
Thank you for responding. I think the confusion was caused by my viewing the parts of this presentation out of sequence. The Corvair remains one of the bettered engineered vehicles in our time, too bad it was a victim of Nader's blind ambitions to control American consumer thought. He took advantage of Americans in experience with handling characteristics or rear-engine cars. I believe that the tried to pull the same scam on Porsche and VW, but those two companies were willing to pay him off while GM told him to go pound sand.
Xavier, it is not that hard but you must be mindful of details. Parts must be clean, sizes need to be right, steps must not be skipped. take your time and check everything .
um um um um um um
I'm an AP/IA and I happened on your build. I kept thinking that engine looked familiar. I wonder if the Franklin parts in Poland would interchange.
No idea if Poland Franklin parts would interchange. My guess would be not. Also, I am unfamiliar with what AP/IA stands for. Could you educate me on that? Thank you!
I am glad you mentioned the overlubing the bearings. I have seen many people do that and leave puddles on the floor or on the bench.
Thank you! I worked at a place and built 50 engines with 1 tube of Lucas bearing lube. My boss built 7 engines with the same amount! I would have 1, 2, maybe 3 dime sized drips in my drip tray, his drip trays were filled with bearing lube!
Now that I've seen the other videos, my sincerest apologies, as you say later, "Never take anything for granted," I did and now trying to correct my comments on your Dial-In procedures. A 55 gallon barrel is impossible to miss.
It does remain a mystery about the cam bearings.
Lucky, seems I am not able to find some of your mesage now, so all I remember is your question about cam bearings. Corvair engines do have cam bearings, it is just the aluminum case. It is a matter of semantics I believe. I had the "bearing area" of the case coated with an anti friction coating. You were reading "cam bearings" and thinking I meant bearing inserts, which as you pointed out, Corvairs do not have. I probably should have just refered to it as the cam "bearing surface" on the case. That is what I had coated. How much help is that??? Who knows! It will reduce friction, but I think the biggest gain is I do not have the hard cam journals running on the soft aluminum. I did it mainly because I can. No real big deal. I know you made some other comments but since I cannot find the post I cannot address them. Feel free to email me at grasshutperformance@gmail.com
Thank you
Tom
Th cam bearings are simply the bearing area on the case itself, you are, of course, correct that there are no bearing "inserts" but the cam does bear on a part of the case, and that would be the cam bearing area. I simply had that part of the case coated to reduce friction. Sorry about taking years to reply! LOL! I am now working building pro race motors, mostly for dragsters, so my time is even more limited than before!
Corsair part 3
Yeah, I have to get to that. I am working building pro race motors now, mostly dragsters, so time is a big issue. But there has been some work done toward #3. I have changed things just a bit and have 2 turbos to add to the motor! Should be fun. Please be patient, have a very demanding job, not to mention my cancer relapsed so will be having to fight that again, it is a slow cancer so may be able to wait a year or so, till then we watch, still heavy work load at job, dr visits often, and have some of my own cars to fix! But we will get to it!
I'm bout to start a corvair how hard is it
any more on this engine?
5:45 is that paint going to last??
That paint has been used on hot rod motors since the 1960's, and lasted just fine, so no worries on this end about he paint lasting.