Because TH-cam is designed for advertisers, they prefer to downrank what would be controversial like talking about piracy and the like, advertisers don't like to put their brand next to something that's controversial because it would give their lawyers a bad day of advising them it's not a good idea. So TH-cam prefers the big money makers where advertisers bid the most on one thing and if something is popular like let's play's then of course it's going to make the most money because kids like watching others play games it's like playing speak and spell, and of course it's safe, education is a safe topic to talk about but if you're a professor of quantum physics you're not wanting to learn about social studies on children with social development issues unless of course you are a mad scientist that want to bring forth the next evolution of astro engineers... or you have children yourself. Linus tech tips makes money because it makes people... feel intelligent and dumbs down a lot of stuff, doesn't make them feel like they are watching a video version of a technical manual, and he keeps their attention. While I was doing my cert II in networking and trying to understand how Windows Server works, I would have loved TH-cam to just pop this guy into my inbox but by looking at this guy he was probably at Microsoft at the time
The problems with your activation system started when you had to call Microsoft, but you are a 12yo living in eastern Europe and there is no Microsoft rep in your country, and even if your license is legit, 10min call abroad costs more than your monthly allowance, which you spent on new hard drive which caused the license issue to begin with.
And the funniest part is that the pirated windows version was much easier to install and "activate." After so much work in thinking, programming, maintaining call centers, it must have been very sad to learn that the "protection" was successfully circumvented within months of release. And although at first the pirates were somewhat surprised by the unexpected 180-day time bomb, but a couple months later it was bypassed too. In general, after a year or so, protection has posed more problems for legal users than for pirates.
It can be worse. You're eastern European teen just still trying to speak English and Microsoft rep is some lady somewhere in eastern Asia that is also just still trying to speak English. After more than half an hour of back and forward it ended with successful activation, but in the morning you need to inform your parents that you kind of had international call with Taiwan, Hong Kong or who knows which country and that they should brace for impact before monthly phone bill arrives. Outsourcing call centers is just ... evil.
even worse, if some hardware drivers had to be installed exactly in the right order and you had to try and try again wiping and reinstalling until you found the right order and in the meantime reached the installation limit and the licence became useless or you bought the licences then you get monthly letters from BSA threatening you with up to 10 years in prison because in Eastern Europe copyright infringement is in the penal code, but had you used pirated copies nobody would have bothered you ever
@@EmilNicolaiePerhinschi Didn't used to have that issue, our first intellectual property laws got passed in Windows 8 era. Home users upgraded pirated 7, 8 and 8.1's to Windows 10 and went legit that way. It's exactly what Microsoft wanted - one of the reasons 7 Ultimate and 8 top tier upgraded to 10 pro only. Even today, government only moves against business users without valid licenses - but they won't bother any company for using Home, Student, etc. over Professional or Enterprise editions. Conscientious people would reinstall many times with WGA remover tool and "activate" in order to find proper driver order and only than reinstall with licensed copy to properly activate.
@@sigun0 Think music, TV and film industries and DRM. hahahahaha. It's funny how these companies NEVER learn. Who is going to buy an MP3 they can only play on 3 devices when they can download an MP3 they can play anywhere? Honestly, these guys are their own worst enemies and they just don't get it.
That one guy: There's no such thing as a read-only registry key. This guy: Yes there is, because I invented it. What a flex to be able to use. That's wild!
But they can run some services to block the particular registry key editing. K7 antivirus does that. You can check by yourself by trying to change its registry key.
I used to do phone activation for XP. We were instructed that at the end, customers were always right and you had to activate even if clearing house smelled shenanigans. Compare that to how things are done today. Windows activation wasn’t evil per say but it certainly opened the door to modern DRM and reinforced the notion that we don’t own the software we paid for.
Let me be honest with you: here in Eastern Europe literally NOBODY believed that Microsoft would be benevolent with its Windows users regarding product activation, because it was perceived as an arrogant, malicious American company that even got away with its shenanigans thanks to American government backing (mind you this was at the time when all the antitrust charges against them were dropped by the government of that bastard Dubya). Which probably discouraged legal Windows use even further.
""He is also infamous for a legend in which he threw a chair at former employee, Mark Lucovsky, after the engineer told Ballmer that he would be leaving Microsoft to join its competitor, Google. " “Prior to joining Google, I set up a meeting on or about November 11, 2004 with Microsoft’s CEO Steve Ballmer to discuss my planned departure….At some point in the conversation Mr. Ballmer said: “Just tell me it’s not Google.” I told him it was Google. At that point, Mr. Ballmer picked up a chair and threw it across the room hitting a table in his office. Mr. Ballmer then said: “F-ing Eric Schmidt is a f-ing p-sy. I’m going to f-ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I’m going to f-ing kill Google.”
@@PinataOblongata I've heard Deep Heat/IcyHot. In Austrailia we'd say "Double tarp it, with a layer of deep heat in between" (tarp is short for tarpaulin)
You still deserve a 5.0 score for your channel. It's absolutely mindblowing to get all the precious pieces of information you put out there for us, as well as hystorical stuff and whatnot. You're a legend, Dave !
A good axe head will last a lifetime if cared for properly. Handles suffer the most during splitting and they shrink loosening up, so you'll want to keep replacing them.
But is the license applied to you to chop trees, or authorization to use that axe to do the chopping? I have a driver's license that lets me drive any car up to a certain weight. I have a registration that lets anyone with a driver's license drive my Prius on the public streets, but shows I own it. As for replacing the blade twice and handle 3 times, you have to also factor timeframe of the replacements to determine quality. Such replacements in one or two years time chopping once a week? Poor. Over 2 decades chopping each workday? Excellent.
One of the best tech channels on the internet right now. Nothing rehashed, no crazy editing or effects to cover up bad content. Dave i'd buy you a beer one day!
I wish I found this channel sooner. I love these looks back to the past. Early computing is so interesting to me, everything was so new and exciting. I love hearing about guys like Steve, Bill, but I love even more to hear from the engineers who were on the ground really building this stuff. Bravo on an amazing career, and thanks for building what I love and use everyday.
The TH-cam AI did me a solid with this one for once.... This whole channel, even going by skimming previous uploads, is an absolute necessity of a subscription
Former Microsoft Escalation engineer here ( support ) that interfaced with Windows QFE group. So I was one of the guys asking the devs for hotfixes. . Really enjoying the Windows history stuff. I have a lot of knowledge but not like this. Very interesting stuff please keep it up! I seem to recall is that WPA had some roots in Office and BradG had a lot to do with it for the Terminal Server product it actually TSLS which the Windows core product borrowed. It's also important to note that Windows server and Windows workstation are the same code. The build number or release may and does differ but all the same code base .
Txs Greg for putting in your sweat equity to keep it huming. Windows is the first OS stack that made "the web" an household staple through 56k USR Modems. 🤗
Brings back memories, and a very useful tip if I can remember it in a few years time. Two types of protection, Seatbelts and Airbags. Having fun binge watching these vids. So much history is being explained and reasons giving for the pain we suffered from.
@@DavesGarage would love to know if you know the real origin of the "Mr. Enigma" registry key. Also be interesting to see an explanation of why Windows still has reserved filenames for "CON", "PRN" etc. and the history of those device names. Discovered some other interesting quirks too like why excel only supports path lengths of only 218 chars due to the way it references other workbooks.
In high school, some kids took "multiple layers of protection" a totally different way not knowing it actually decreased the amount of protection. Glad to see you teaching your boys right.. seatbelts and airbags all the way.
But in ｔｕｒｄ ｗｏｒｌｄ ｃｏｕｎｔｒｉｅｓ like Indonesia, the seatbelts and airbags don't even matter because they wanna die like a real human Oh, did i mention if Indonesia loves to break the traffic rules (lane hogging, speeding, carrying beyond capacity, road rage, driving/riding under influences, distracted driving/riding, using rotators and strobes even though you have no interest to using it)
@@Just-View When wearing a helmet don't forget the neck brace as well. Keeps you from snapping your neck in a sudden stop. So always double up your protection.
as a current microsoft employee, as well as a computer history buff, and one fascinated by Microsoft's history, this sceatches all the right itches. :D
Yes, I for one would like to thank you for Window's activation. Without out it I would never had made the jump to Linux! When I received a demand for £65 to use a copy of XP I had already bought for my upgraded computer boiled my piss. So again, thank you. I've been a happy Linux Mint user since 2006.
@@toby9999 Tolerate? Unless you are running specialized software only written for Windows, or are a hard-core gamer, you can do pretty much everything on Linux these days. Even hard-core gaming! But hey, use what you like.
Having my motherboard blow was a huge bummer. Replacing it was a pain. Realizing after doing so that I had to re-buy Windows again, even though I was still using all the same parts other than the mobo was infuriating!
As someone who had to move a hard drive over to an older, but virtually identical, laptop due to a screen break: customer support is understanding, and will help you get your activation squared away. The lady I got didn't ask any questions that struck me as her being suspicious of me (not even of the "I'm required by my company to be suspicious" variety) or try to put up any unnecessary red tape or anything!
@@PhirePhlame Yup, my copy of Windows 10 deactivated itself when I changed my motherboard, gave Microsoft a call and was rather surprised at how quick and easy the process was to get things reactivated. One of the nicest and smoothest customer service calls I've ever had, top marks to Microsoft for that one.
@@FuzzWoof Even now, the activation troubleshooter in Windows 10 and 11 is an absolutely amazing tool. I've had my computer deactivate on Windows 10 after a GPU change. Went to the troubleshooter and in seconds it reactivated.
One hardware change doesn't trigger that. Multiple changes do. I had to reactivate after upgrading my mobo, cpu and ram but I'm not rebuying Windows for that. I paid for it and it's the one and only time I'm okay with using less than legal means to get around it.
@@TUUK2006 it's not necessarily illegal if you've actually bought the license. Preventing paying customers from using a product might be. And even if the reactivaton can be done through a call, the unofficial method is a better user experience.
The bigger picture is that Microsoft wanted everyone on the planet to run their software, even if a substantial number did not pay for it. Windows and Office became (and still are) the de facto world standard that everyone in business and academia needs to learn and to use. Microsoft is worth 2.27 trillion. Mission accomplished.
This is further evidenced by the fact that workarounds were built-in in win95 and much of the software of that era. Typing in a bunch of 1's when it asked for a product key, it would accept it without further question. Then, as now I suspect, market dominance is far more important than preventing piracy.
@@tythagoras5787 even now i believe you can still use all Xs to bypass the key entry and get yourself into the evaluation period (worked with win10 but i havent tried on 11 since i didnt do a fresh reinstall)
True. But. Their security is clunky and difficult. And .0002% of Windows users are going to pirate it and show Microsoft who’s in charge. It’s like you didn’t even read the comments Tailspin. Jeez.
@@bwgti Running unlicensed Microsoft software was extremely common 10 or 15 years ago. I developed Access database systems freelance for 20 years (retired last year) so I got to see a lot of offices. I recall one small office on a building development site running a few Windows PCs with only one Office 2010 CD. It let them install freely 3 or 4 times, then one day when I was there working they needed to load on a new machine and it refused. Their solution ? Call Microsoft support with a sob story about their old machine dying and get given a new authorisation code. Licensing just seemed to be for big corporate customers- everyone else could freely pirate, presumably to build the usage base and eliminate the competition.
Man, I remember in the early days when I was testing OS capability with a BIOS I was working on... I went to install XP on my reference design, and didn't have the product key handy, so I entered an MS Office key I did happen to have handy, and Windows just accepted it! This did stop working on later builds, but I did get a bit of a laugh out of this.
I remember installing something -- Windows, Office, Visual Studio -- I can't remember, it's been like three decades or so since then. All I can remember is that it was a beta version, and that I could not locate the product key they gave me. In frustration, I entered either all zeroes, or 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... etc. -- and it worked. In fact, I'm pretty sure this happened twice, one time with all zeroes, one time with 1 2 3 4 ... (different products, I _think_ but am not sure).
I think the only numbers that counted were the last 4 or so to validate the os code, so even if you had mostly 0’s as long the last couple ones are valid. Well let’s say there weren’t too many combinations, so it’s reasonable that at that time most other ms software with a key could work on older os like 95 98 etc but not anymore from vista onwards or 7 onwards not sure.
I wouldn't pair Windows 95 with XP in this regard. Logon was radically different in 9X (95, 98, ME) than it is with NT-based systems (NT, 2000, XP, Vista…).
Unfortunately, product activation can really hamper repair of things like CAT scanners that run on older copies of Windows, on isolated machines. If I can’t activate the OS, then, when the machine fails, it could be disastrous. Especially when replacing the equipment isn’t an option. Not saying people shouldn’t pay for software, but owning software instead of a license is definitely an important use case.
Clasic case of project/developer stupidity, ie the PM/developer did not design the software or project to be maintained. They did not forsee that the OS would not need to be upgraded and did not plan to support the software that was developed, they assumed they could keep using the same hardware and software for 20 or 30 years which is never going end well. This is not Windows Activartion issue it is a project managment issue that did not look at the full expected life cycle of the product. This is common to 99% of all projects as project managers and developers are paid to deliver a project withing a given short timescale somwher between 1 day and 12 months not 20 years.
@@lorribot64 unfortunately, none of what you said there matters to the hospital that bought the best product they could at the time they bought it. It’s still a Windows Activation issue because when someone designs a product, they generally use whatever is available at the time. So, the hospital buys the best product available, but can’t necessarily replace the entire thing when the computer fails. And while we might like a company to update their software for old products, they may have made THEIR money and moved on. This leaves the hospital with 2 options: scrape together money they weren’t planning to spend yet, or, more likely, try to find a way to restore the old machine. But, without a way to activate the box (say it ran Windows 7) and no updated drivers for a newer version of Windows, they might be spending that money on the CAT scanner instead of something else they really needed. Other option might be to send people elsewhere until they can update the machine, but given how fast tech moves, they’ll likely be in that mode again. If on the other hand, there was a better option, like to actually own the copy of Windows for that device, then the machine could likely be used until it was actually slated for upgrade. Note that this goes for MANY other devices. Generally, if it might require a specialized driver, it may only have been targeted for the current crop of hardware and software available. You can’t necessarily expect them to know where Microsoft is going. And when things do change, you can’t expect them to update all of their old stuff. The people that built that CAT scanner might not even still work there. But, what you might expect, when you buy something you do plan on owning for a while, is that a license activation doesn’t stop you from continuing to use the product until you are ready to scrap it. But Microsoft doesn’t give you such an option with something like, say, Windows 7, because they don’t even run the activation servers anymore. Just a question, if you need a vehicle, do you own or lease? I’d guess lease. It can be quite expensive to replace certain equipment frequently. Not saying it should never be replaced, but expecting people can always update is pretty short-sighted. Everyone would love to replace most everything they own with something new, but eventually you’d like to do something more sustainable.
@@roboknight I buy my cars second hand. They have a life expectancy based on currant age, condition and expected usage and they are replaced at a given time. It is called life cycle planning. If you plan for the lifecycle of a product to be 20 years you should not be specifying a Windows OS as they are only supported for 10 years unless you expect to do regular updates or refreshes, Computer hardware is unlikely to be last that long so you will need to plan for replacement of that. Even governments refresh Aircraft airframes , wings and engines or 20 year old planes. but for some reason no one thinks about these things up front in any technology project and actually looks at the life expectancy of the device and maps out how that will unfold over the intervening years. If you specify a sledge hammer to crack a nut it i s not the hammers fault when in smashes the nut to pieces.
Really enjoy these inside stories from early software development at MS. In a way you give software like task manager, product activation etc. a face and remind us that someone actually sat down and coded these. I don't have any suggestions of the top of my head, but I'll let you know. Looking forward to your next video!
I always just lied on the phone activation saying "I only activated two pcs" despite using the same copy of windows on like a dozen friend's PCs. It always worked
I was working in a client’s offices one day and they had already installed The same copy of Office on 4 PCs, but the 5th wouldn’t activate. The boss told the secretary to phone Microsoft and tell them their PC had died and they were loading up the replacement. It worked of course. Tbh there were so many ways of getting round activation, using academic copies, etc. it seemed that paying for software was just something big companies did. The rest of us it used it for free and helped with the marketing effort in the process.
I don’t mind activation, but as a vintage computer collector, I wonder what the future holds. It would be nice if Microsoft would release installation media for there older OSs that included all updates. If sold for a reasonable price I think there would be a limited market.
@@4lpha0nelike... In a different way? Since Windows 95 people had fake/pirated Windows. XP was also heavily pirated. I don't get your "they cracked the XP activation system". Like... When was it not cracked?
MS still is hosting the updates, there is a project called LegacyUpdate that reroutes them to non-SSL capable installs and works great, also fixes the endless searching for updates loop. There may be some workaround for win9x as well
Those previous ways were workarounds, the crack he is talking about completely decrypted the activation process. Meaning not even Microsoft would be able to tell the difference
This was fascinating! Love hearing all of the thought and engineering that goes into each topic. I'd love to hear about the origins of XP and your opinions about its success and sticking power.
Exactly. Especially in the case of games. DRM is really only there to protect the sales for the first few days of the release. I always think it's funny to read forum posts of innocent buyers of the product when the DRM breaks the game and they get accused of stealing it when they didn't. About 4 or 5 years ago there was a flight simulator developer that put a program that would steal chrome passwords and send them unencrypted back to the company. Their excuse for putting it in there was that they were trying to steal information from pirates. Also, there was another flight sim DRM problem with the PMDG MD-11. If the DRM suspected that you using a cracked copy, if you attempted to install a livery for the plane, it would just delete your whole simobjects folder. That means all aircraft models, default and purchased downloaded content would of had to be reinstalled. If it was something that was not downloadable anymore then it was just gone forever. Most of the people that were effected by this were people that paid over 60 dollars for the addon. The liveries that would bomb the simobjects folder also cost money.
To hear Dave discuss the thinking and planning behind Windows evolution makes me appreciate the approach of proprietary thinking a little better. I myself prefer Linux / FOSS as a software model, but the perspective and thought behind Windows from his perspective does open my eyes a little. I am subbed to hear more.
This video reminded me of something I would really like to know more about: the history of the Windows Registry. What triggered its development, what was its intended scope of use, what were hurdles in its development, and what do the developers (former and/or current) think of what it turned into?
There's actually a lot of information on this written by one of the other old school Windows devs, Raymond Chen. He runs a blog called "The Old New Thing". IIRC, it started as a place to register COM objects - hence the name "registry". It was expanded to cover configuration data after they started running in to many situations where the all-settings-in-one-file or in-some-files was becoming too restricting. They needed something that could be read from and written to by multiple people simultaneously, without corruption. They needed something that could support localization. (They considered the INI format locked, because suddenly throwing Unicode data into something that was previously always ANSI/ASCII would break a lot of programs that did their own parsing of INI files.) They needed something centralized. They needed something securable at a higher granularity than just file permissions. (i.e., if you have access to change one setting in an INI file, you have access to change everything in the INI file. They wanted more granular permissions, so programs and the system could secure specific keys from each other, if required.)
I remember being astounded that Windows wasn't seeking re-activation despite some heavy hardware changes I made... Now I know why. I owe you almost 20 years of thanks! 😊👍
Fun fact: Here in germany it is not allowed by law to bind a software licence to hardware. So you can take your Windows licence from one PC to the next.
Oh I remember that hell back then MS got into. People threatened to sue them if they are not stopping this crap. Somebody moved from a Dell PC to a DIY one and of course, the MAK didn't work. We actived it illegally but the key was still his and he bought it with his Dell PC. Now we use digital keys and no media anymore, so it's not really easier but possible to just activate with a illegal key. Even go around the problem with own KMS servers on the router or somewhere is a way MS will never got rid off. But they are only hunting for bigger companies, not private persons.
Though why does Windows still say that the hardware has changed and that i need to buy a new Windows 10 license every time i change something major on my PC (which i do alot)
@@onix331 Good question, i can't answer it tho. I had no problems so far with my licences. The most i had to do was to register my XP by phone and had a human asking me if i really had deleted XP from the other PC.
@@onix331 i changed my whole PC (even from intel to amd), just nvme drive with Windows 10 intallation was from the old PC, and it did not complain (even that nvme was not original installation drive, I moved win10 install from another ssd in old pc to it, so in a way this was completely new pc)
@@onix331 So what did you change ? Mainboard ? Just use the old key and phone activation, it will ask you on how many pcs its installed and you say 1, that's it.
Worked with Microsoft products (OS and Apps) since Dos 3.0 and Word 2.0 (as well as WordPerfect 5.0, PFS First Choice, Lotus 1-2-3, VP Planner - oops, gotta duck and avoid that Tetradactyl flying overhead...). Thank you for the trip down memory lane. It is great to pop the hood and see what the software engineers working on products were thinking at the time - one of the most valuable channels on 'the tube'!
@@DavesGarage it seems the old saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it" fully applies at the core level. Adding an App store was a great idea to copy the Apple revenu stream. ✌️ 👏
I recently upgraded my motherboard and CPU. Activation failed and I had to spend over 45 minutes on the phone to Microsoft support.. transferred between various agents and had to email them PDFs of my invoice for motherboard and CPU before they would re-active my PC. Towards the end of the call I was starting to consider just buying another copy of Windows... glad I did not... but gosh what a horrible customer experience. This was a great example of paying customers [me] suffering when the pirates just enjoy their free software.
Some of it must be still there, I changed my mobo and cpu, and had to call to reactivate. Sent them proof of purchase of the old mobo, click. Activated.
@@saveker With Win10 you can bind your License to a Microsoft account. If it fails activation, you can then choose "Troubleshooting -> I changed my hardware" and select a license for your Windows edition from your account. It's quite handy to save your license this way (could also theoretically maybe transfer to another PC this way)
Would love to hear more about the code review, branch and merge process used in the older days. What where your dev machines like. Also some crunch time story’s Also the thinking behind service packs and how they worked.
I have close friends who are MSFT employees from the time of stack ranking. When MSFT got rid of it everyone rejoiced (except the folks who constantly got 4+)
Lance, do you know how you are doing well at MS? You still have a job. I remember congratulating a colleague on an award he had just won, it was quite a significant achievement. He blew it off like it was nothing. He said to me being above average is why you have a job here in the first place. I stopped and thought about his comment for a moment. While I have to admit that comment did make me feel kind of special, he was right MS rarely hires duds.
I've read about that. It basically meant that employees had to treat each other like enemies instead of colleagues, and who knows what kind of damage it did to the Microsoft products of that time.
The constant reactivation for hardware changes was the most frustrating part of wpa for me. It still would be I'm sure, if I didn't have an MSDN aka Visual Studio subscription these days.
There is a limit to how many keys MSDN issues and even the MAKs have a set limit. I personally respect to at least a minumum the VS EULA and limit the keys' usage to test rigs and VMs, with my daily driver desktop running a key that was originally retail Windows 7 Ultimate.
Would love to hear your thoughts on Windows Neptune and Odyssey before they merged into Whistler/XP! In the public we've only seen one leaked build of Windows Neptune and only heard rumors about Odyssey, but I'd love to learn more about both.
Thanks Dave. I always knew there was a real person that could speak English and not sound like a digital voice. Now I have a better glimpse of how it works.
Love your war stories. In Australia, we have what's called Ned Kelly's axe. It's had three new axe heads and five new handles, but it's still Ned Kelly's axe.
I'm a Linux guy now thanks to the frustration I experienced 20 yrs ago with WPA. Much like how I can't comprehend why TH-cam algo took 2 yrs to recommend this video I couldn't comprehend why I had to endure the perils of WPA after hardware upgrades. Can't complain as it the journey has been fruitful. Nonetheless, thank you sir and your coworkers for the considerations you put into WPA. I endured as long as I could at that time.
Dave, thank you so much for doing this. I’m 32, just getting into programming. I’m trying to find out what I want to learn the most.. I don’t know where to start. But I did start learning Python.
Ah windows xp activation circa 2001... "Windows needs to activate before logging in" Okay I'll just run the activation... Puts in product key "Activated!" System reboots "Windows needs to activate before logging in" Wtf I just activated, I'll run it and see what happens, what the hell "Windows is already activated!" System reboots Fml
I think he kinda alluded to that in the video. he knew people were going to circumvent it, but he was fine with that because 90 percent were doing the right thing.
@@Fanta.... I live in Bulgaria and I'm 29 years old, worked as computer technician since 17 years old. To this day I have never seen a single person or business who paid for a Windows license if it didn't came preinstalled with the computer. So it's more like 0.01 percent are buying it instead of 90.
"Someone I know" used to be really big into cracking various software, including activation and WGA. While I agree with you, certainly as a developer myself, that people who can afford software should pay for it - I also think the world would be a much better place if everyone who wanted to try to make things had access to whatever tools they need. Particularly software, as this doesn't pose any loss to the producer, if the consumer could never afford it anyway. At best, it's free advertising for the producer. At worst, a rich guy gets to do a little charity work. Personally, I went back decades later and paid for a lot of the software that I pirated as a kid. I think that's pretty common, according to studies. If I didn't pirate those things, I likely never would have escaped ASD level 3 and would probably still be living with a highly abusive parent. Now that I'm moderately functional, I try to pay it back and pay it forward.
So if the World was perfect and these things wouldn't get abused, the World would be lerfect, interesting view on the World, sadly it's obviously not perfect. Also if cracks weren't so broken or would get the same updates easily I wouldn't have bought these products afterwards.
I think Windows has addressed this issue (if you can then you should pay for it). While still letting poor high school me use it. Last time I installed windows. I remember it working for free. I just couldn't "personalize" it, until I paid for it. That sounds like such a lil' trivial thing. But it's not. Yet all of the "power" was still available, it just didn't "feel" right. I used the "free" type for a week or two until my key came.
In my case that's why I decided to try open source and Linux, as a kid I pirated EVERYTHING you can imagine. Music? Ares, LimeWire and some websites. Games? Halo, Sims 2, The Elder Scrolls, Diablo. Software? Everything about Adobe and Microsoft office. But when I entered college I realized that the music and games I like needs support for being so niche, and there's open source software that can do what I need like Krita+Gimp+G'mic. I start getting tired to pirated Adobe (I can't pay Adobe license for 2 programs, it's like it's meant to business, not to normal users) so I'm looking how much I can survive with open source and Linux on college before I'm pushed to pirated
Hi Dave, I like the content and the format. Doing a lot of work with public and private keys at the moment and it got me thinking, what if you just overwrite the public key with your own. Niceto know that there are checks and balances and "If you tinker we can see you". Just wanted to start a dialog. Will have a think about what I would like to hear. In the mean time glad to hear you're doing it for the subs out there
Thank you for the content you’re making. This is like the genius behind the magic of my childhood. My first pc was a windows 95 and I’ve grown up with every operating system since. Really fascinating insights 😊
Listen, I'm gonna level with you @xuzeliu ... after watching some of Dave's videos, i actually tried to seek any retired or even active DirectX team members with youtube channels I didn't find any, at least not in the time I tried, im sure *someone* is out there
Even the devs weren't allowed to know how all of DX worked. It was black-box code, split across several teams to assure that nobody could actually crack the whole API and write a wrapper for Linux or Mac. That's why it was such a cumbersome piece of garbage.
17:25 Let's be realistic. It wasn't just sometimes subverted. Like most forms of DRM, it was an extra thing paying customers had to deal with, while it barely slowed the pirates that just nuked WPA. Same with WAT in Vista, 7, etc. WPA/WAT was just another in a long line of anti piracy schemes that did next to nothing to actually stop piracy. Great video overall, as always.
Over the years of doing residential/small business IT support, this is the thing that has bugged me no end.. The randomly failed activations or randomly triggered WPA issues. Now I know who I've been cursing for all these years.
Back in the good ole days, I worked in IT asset management. We purchased 1500 licenses for Windows 3.1 (or upgrades to 3.1, can't remember). So each individual license was its own piece of paper and came in a folder. This ended up being something like 6 boxes of paper we had to keep. I had hoped it could've been two pieces of paper, one for 1000, and one for 500.
Such an interesting video and perspective! I’m in the process of putting together an offline Windows XP rig and experienced telephone activation for the first time while I was setting it up. I was honestly in awe that such a robust system existed and is still functional today. Really cool to hear your breakdown and design philosophy behind it.
I remeber being a beta tester for Windows XP, and then got a full retail version as a thank you for submitting so many bugs back to Microsoft (I think I reported well over 500 bugs over the entire beta testing). I remember the jump from running Win 95 to XP and having to get new hardware as I was running the beta releases on an AMD K5 with 128MB RAM. Then someone gave me a pirate copy of Win XP corporate which didn't need activation on the day of XP being released. I never used the pirate copy as my everday system, but used it for further bug testing and writing software and drivers.
Dave, one consequence of WPA is when building an XP retro gaming PC I essentially had to hack the activation even though I think I personally own five or six Windows licenses. I understand the risks of Windows XP in everyday use, but the 32-bit version still has a lot to offer - lots of compatibility and hardware audio. But once the OS reaches its end of life, no activation servers essentially means the OS is dead or you have to look for a shady cracked version that probably has malware to steal the non-existent personal info on that computer, but also maybe compromise your whole network.
@@sniglom It's not like I'm gonna keep on using Windows XP on my daily driver or get on the Internet with an XP PC. They could just remove WPA in a final update when it stops being supported and be done with it. Because, you know, those who want to pirate XP will keep pirating it, WPA or not. Even Windows 11 can easily be pirated. At this point WPA is just making life harder for people like me, not software pirates.
The contents of HKLM\SYSTEM\WPA can easily be changed by mounting the SYSTEM registry hive on another windows installation so the "read-only" protection must be entirely within the kernel.
I'd be really surprised if it's anything more than just setting ACL permissions on the key. Obviously it's not going to be enforced unless the Windows that owns the hive is running, since the other Windows doesn't know who the GUIDs listed in those ACLs belong to. This same way you can bypass NTFS filesystem ACLs when you have physical access to the computer.
I do find your topics very interesting. About the time of XP, I found Windows was getting in the way of my internet experience so I switched to Linux. I do have one partition of a triple boot with Windows. I only use it to keep up with helping others when they have issues. It still takes forever to update it every 2 months.
I've never used Linux as a desktop OS for long periods of time. The couple of times I tried (Ubuntu), I found that it was far too easy to brick the install through a bad upgrade or similar experience. For as much as Windows has a reputation of being an OS you have to reinstall ever year or so, I actually haven't had to reinstall Windows to fix something since the Windows Vista days. This is a legitimate, good faith question from me to you (presumably someone who has used Linux as a desktop OS for decades now): do you think my experience with desktop Linux is normal, or did I just get unlucky? Do you believe Linux is viable as a "general purpose" desktop OS these days (putting aside the issue of hardware vendors making drivers available and such)?
I wish there were licenses for ‘curious teenagers without money’. I built Frankenstein computers with parts acquired from friends and families old PCs and was lucky enough to have found a copy of a corporate XP license. Without it, there would have been no way to for me to afford the keys I needed.
Modern activation is pretty forgiving. I suppose there's also MSDNAA/Dreamspark/Azure for Education/whatever the hell they're calling it these days, although those licenses may technically be "upgrade" licenses
With something like gvg mall you can get a full featured legit legal windows 10 pro key for like 15-20 bucks. Hardly a big deal even for an aspiring builder.
Thank you for your videos in general, but mainly for the videos from my formative years with computers (94 - 2006). You've jogged so many memories from a time I had more hair and was way more confident in my abilities.
0:36 - 1:16 While I agree, I feel that argument only really holds up if the company or organization also deals ethically with the end-user. Something which Adobe is known not to do and I'd argue that Microsoft does not do so either at this point in time. Even the enterprise versions of Windows are basically just home with a few extra features tacked on. You still get served consumer features like Candy Crush or have random things like news and weather activated by default on all machines that recieves that update. For stability reasons, you're best served to wait for half a year to a year after every major update or new OS release, simply to avoid problems that should have been caught in testing and quality control. But at this point end-users, nearly regardless of Windows version, are subject to become unwanted beta testers if they follow Microsoft's advice and update the moment something is out. Some may disagree, but LTSC is basically what Enterprise -and Windows in general- should have been from a usability point of view at the very least. So in the abbreviated words of Gaben: Piracy stems not from price but from a service problem.
I agree - ethically I don't agree with supporting Adobe. They're basically an abusive relationship as they wring you out for ever-increasing amounts of money.
I am not using Windows because I want to, but because the software and games I use dictate that I have to. If it were entirely up to me, I would not be using Windows. Even if I could pay for LTSC, why would I pay for an OS that I dislike using and that its developer has stopped caring about?
@@expression3639 Yea, because the stuff that was said at the beggining is simply not in line with Bill G. ideas about Microsoft. Bill was very open that if someone is not willing to pay then he should be using Microsoft product anyway... So that whole explanation why for example the date of the first activation was not hiden is very far from the truth and that is why so many people are using Windows 10 without the activation and Microsoft is not doing anything about it(only showing small info on the corner of the screan).
Excellent video. I'd be interested in hearing any insider details about how Microsoft handled leaks of the source code for Windows 2000. What was the reaction? What changes were made?
Interesting discussion. I had largely forgotten the days of phone activation - but now you remind me, I do remember the pain of trying to explain to someone on the phone that I had been forced to reinstall Windows for the 10th time, due to a Windows bug, which was honestly common back then, and them flatly refusing to help re-activate. We supported thousands of machines and this was almost a daily occurrence.
You, my friend, are an inspiration to all programmers. Please keep teaching us about everything and anything that you want. I think we all feel smart by having an interesting "conversation" with someone who knows what he's talking about.
The activation is now stored on Microsoft's servers, allowing automatic activation even if you reinstall everything from scratch. And evaluation versions of the main consumer versions is effectively infinite: the only issue is a bit of nagware if you leave the unactivated computer on for too long.
That only happens if you register with a Microsoft account though. If you don't want to do that, good luck getting Windows to even recognize your copy as legitimate in case you need to reinstall.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino No, I never do that, but I reupgraded a computer back to Windows 10 after downgrading to Windows 7, and it activated automatically. Microsoft mentions it as a big deal that, since Windows 10, it now stores your hardware ID on its own servers, and will automatically reactivate. People use it all the time to do a clean install after upgrading. As far as I can tell, the Microsoft Account stuff is for transferring a license from one hardware ID to another. It lets you automate the process if you just changed your hardware too much, or if you want to migrate your license to a different computer.
Like the homage to the "Friendly Giant" at the end of the video. For those who not familiar , it was a children's program that aired in Canada from 1958 to 1985 on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) . Episodes of this show has made it onto TH-cam, Also like the "CBC O4" which is the VHF channel 4 for CBC in Ottawa, Canada.
What I always found interesting was how companies like Microsoft, Adobe, and many others were crying about piracy all the while they were growing larger and larger, well before DRM like product activation, SecuROM, StarForce, and others came about, so it always felt really disingenuous to make such claims that were impossible to actually quantify. Something else to consider is that PA came out around the time period of the Sony Rootkit, among other DRMs that acted just like malware, which was seen by many as a massive violation of the public trust, that such corporations had no problem showing complete disregard for the rights of their own customer's, that paying customers were going to be treated as criminals and be forced to prove that they obtained the software/game legitimately. Methods like PA always felt like an overreach that violates the First Sale Doctrine which states that after money has changed hands, the producer should not be involved in the operation of the product thereafter, but by forcing customers to prove they bought the title legitimately, they are involving gatekeeping after the point of purchase, which many have argued is inappropriate, as it is not a corporation's place to declare their customers to be criminals unless they jump through hoops, past the point of sale, when their should be zero obligation to do so. So while I cannot encourage piracy of software and media, I certainly understand where a lot of people who were coming from, and that a lot of companies helped create the situation by engaging in more and more nefarious means that clearly went too far (such as Sony BGM's Rootkit) that were harmful to users.
Ther are a lot of arguments that could be made for pirating media.......movies tv games........the copyright laws need to be redone.........I got a notice from my ISP because I downloaded a TV show......a TV show.....that can be watched for free by any idiot with a TV and an antenna......or recorded to a DVR......but i downloaded it off the internet and i get flagged......on the other side, piracy of software is wrong.....(and I know games are technically software but I dont have time or the space to address that)......the simple fact of software is you can easily find a free version for whatever need you have.....so theres no need to steal software
Particularly galling when these companies already have a monopoly on entire global industries, the least they can do is not bloat their products with intrusive DRM. This is the sole reason I stopped using Adobe, I’d rather use an inferior product.
"it always felt really disingenuous to make such claims that were impossible to actually quantify." - Indeed, the claims made on those grounds were completely bogus and just figments of sleazy corporate lobbyists' imagination. "Methods like PA always felt like an overreach that violates the First Sale Doctrine" - They do, up to this day, but thanks to LOTS of corporate psychopaths probably even precedent rulings have been made which have basically vacated the First Sale Doctrine anyway. "a lot of companies helped create the situation by engaging in more and more nefarious means that clearly went too far (such as Sony BGM's Rootkit) that were harmful to users." - Unfortunately piracy also made it easier for this corporate vermin to get away with their wrongdoings, because people who had the skills to recognize how nefarious their steps were just shrugged it off saying "meh, I'll just pirate it instead".
I like this attitude to activation. It reminds me of companies that ship DRM with their games for the first few weeks, then disable it after that. Because the point isn't to permanently prevent piracy, but to protect that first month's all important sales, when most sales will happen. Honestly, I'm on board with that
It's a bit different with an OS though, when you might need it run other software, possibly 20 or more years later. I have several working laptops which are licensed to run Windows XP, but thanks to WPA I have no practical way to reinstall them without resorting to dodgy cracked ISOs, so most of them are already running Linux (which is also not ideal since the distros which run best on old hardware are not supported either)
@@gags730 I don't disagree with this. I thought the whole point of slurping more and more data was to move from a paid model to a free model more like Android. That you still have to pay for a licence for Windows, at least for personal use, is stupid. They could have a free licence and still require companies to buy a business licence, and I'd bet they would be making as much money because Windows is so pervasive.
why blame you 😂😂😂😂. Your actions are what let me into software always trying to figure out a way around stuff as kid and i thank you .. damn feels good to finally see the person who sent me done the rabbit .. love u man hahaha
The current method is honestly the best imo. I think it's proven over time that some simply will never buy a license to software and the security will be more of a target when it is locked down so tightly. The Activate windows Watermark is enough of a push for those who will buy it. I find it unethical to force destructive locks to software that can end up harming the legitimate buyers over the Pirates because pirates will find a way to disable many of these measures. DRM in Gaming is an example where we are consistently punished with buggy and heavy load games because of the DRM.
I think the use of a dongle may be OK. I won't use software using any of the methods described in this video, because it always fails and DRM hassles you at the worst possible time, when you can't afford to deal with it. I also don't like the "reminders" approach. I mainly stick to open source software now, but if it's something important, I'll buy something that uses a dongle for licensing. That seems to be robust enough not to inconvenience legitimate users.
@@slivnik I have 10 USB ports on my machine and there are times that every one of them is occupied. A Dongle would be a real pain in the butt in many Professional Use case scenarios where every bit of io is often being pushed to it's limit. I can see it for very specific uses but the OS is not one that would work with that. Especially with how Laptops and OEM prebuilts be having like 2 to 4 USB slots total. That becomes an issue for those users as well. Imagine The ARM patent for windows runs out and they decide to support M1's natively. How would that even work on a MBP? I go Genuine because the black screen bothers me and watermarking is annoying when doing work. Fortunately these days the Windows Activation is mostly good. The biggest issue I run into is with games having DRM on top of Steams Built in DRM. I believe there is a limit to DRM's usefulness and when it causes major issues for legitimate consumers it just reminds me of the Rootkit from those Sony Music CD's. Punishing paying customers.
Yes, I take your points, there are issues with dongles too, but personally, I'd rather have a dongle and possibly have to buy a USB hub to have an extra USB port but have it work robustly than the crappy heuristics which monitor my computer and constantly report back to mothership with information about my configuration and make the software stop working if I've added too much additional RAM. That's just typical Microsoft flakey unpredictable / non-deterministic behaviour which I find more annoying than anything else. Yes, the best thing is to have no DRM at all - just buy the official DVD and manual and then it works and you get support - and those who want to be cheap can download pirated copies and scans of the manual and risk getting a virus infection, and have no support. Personally, I'd rather pay. I think so would most users with an actual budget to buy the software. So I think all the DRM stuff is rubbish. But *personally* I find the dongle less annoying than the heuristic and the "annoying message" (or worse, "disable the software until you re-authenticate") approach.
Sorry just to add to that, I like open source software best of all. Not because it's free but because it's open source - so you can know what it's doing and be sure it's not spying on you. Like Microsoft software always does - as Dave says, constantly sending information about your configuration back to mothership. At least. Most likely rather a lot more than that. I'm perfectly happy to pay, but not to install black box software on my computer where I have no idea what it's doing.
Back in the 90ies I was running an ISP together with a friend. We wanted to sell codes that allowed people to sign up to a paid account. I knew just enough about cryptography to know I could never do that safely. So in the end I just used random numbers that I put in a database, checked for duplicates and marked the used ones as invalid. Worked. Not as sophisticated as activation, but good enough for what we needed.
Everything's Dave has talked about is available in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\. I don't if it's the legit source of first use datetime, but all other information about product activation are also there. There InstallDate right there, which is the hexadecimal value of the Unix timestamps (weirdly) of your install. There's also InstallTime but I have no idea what format it's stored in. I guess Windows developers are much more clever than that, however.
7:59 You can use the key three times on a brand new PC before it is "broken". You then have to call the support to have the usage count reset or do it yourself on that self-service website that existed but is now gone. You was able to enter the long string of numbers your PC gives you for phone activation and either get the activation code directly or reset the number of times the key was used. It said something like "Please enter the number of times you have used that key" and if you enter something below 3 it will give you the activation code and your Windows is activated.
You mean Windows 8 Gold/Server 2012? That was terribly unuseable. The reason is that client and server SKUs actually share the same binaries; only a few config files are different.
I recently had to use a Server 2012 VM over RDP and forgot how bad it was. I didn't mind 8.1/2012 R2 that much though, they made just enough changes to make it useable without a touch screen.
Thank you for the explanation, but I still hate the trouble of licensing. The WPA and the bloatware drove me away from Windows for good. I have to learn Azure professionally, but the user interface designed by salesmen drives me up the wall and makes me curse the vendor lock in.
Dave man, this man is one of my heroes(basically everyone at Microsoft). They worked on software that gave children like us(from the third world and poor) a chance at a better life. I know you might not read this but THANKS!!!
Me, a few weeks back: Why does TH-cam keep suggesting this guy's videos?
Me, now: Why didn't TH-cam tell me about this channel ages ago?
Because TH-cam is designed for advertisers, they prefer to downrank what would be controversial like talking about piracy and the like, advertisers don't like to put their brand next to something that's controversial because it would give their lawyers a bad day of advising them it's not a good idea.
So TH-cam prefers the big money makers where advertisers bid the most on one thing and if something is popular like let's play's then of course it's going to make the most money because kids like watching others play games it's like playing speak and spell, and of course it's safe, education is a safe topic to talk about but if you're a professor of quantum physics you're not wanting to learn about social studies on children with social development issues unless of course you are a mad scientist that want to bring forth the next evolution of astro engineers... or you have children yourself.
Linus tech tips makes money because it makes people... feel intelligent and dumbs down a lot of stuff, doesn't make them feel like they are watching a video version of a technical manual, and he keeps their attention.
While I was doing my cert II in networking and trying to understand how Windows Server works, I would have loved TH-cam to just pop this guy into my inbox but by looking at this guy he was probably at Microsoft at the time
hahaha me too
Wow.... just wow. This channel needs to hit 1M subs. 20 minutes went by like nothing. I'm giving you a 5.0, Dave!
saaaaaaaaaaaaame
Felt same here!
The problems with your activation system started when you had to call Microsoft, but you are a 12yo living in eastern Europe and there is no Microsoft rep in your country, and even if your license is legit, 10min call abroad costs more than your monthly allowance, which you spent on new hard drive which caused the license issue to begin with.
And the funniest part is that the pirated windows version was much easier to install and "activate." After so much work in thinking, programming, maintaining call centers, it must have been very sad to learn that the "protection" was successfully circumvented within months of release. And although at first the pirates were somewhat surprised by the unexpected 180-day time bomb, but a couple months later it was bypassed too. In general, after a year or so, protection has posed more problems for legal users than for pirates.
It can be worse. You're eastern European teen just still trying to speak English and Microsoft rep is some lady somewhere in eastern Asia that is also just still trying to speak English. After more than half an hour of back and forward it ended with successful activation, but in the morning you need to inform your parents that you kind of had international call with Taiwan, Hong Kong or who knows which country and that they should brace for impact before monthly phone bill arrives.
Outsourcing call centers is just ... evil.
even worse, if some hardware drivers had to be installed exactly in the right order and you had to try and try again wiping and reinstalling until you found the right order and in the meantime reached the installation limit and the licence became useless
or you bought the licences then you get monthly letters from BSA threatening you with up to 10 years in prison because in Eastern Europe copyright infringement is in the penal code, but had you used pirated copies nobody would have bothered you ever
@@EmilNicolaiePerhinschi Didn't used to have that issue, our first intellectual property laws got passed in Windows 8 era. Home users upgraded pirated 7, 8 and 8.1's to Windows 10 and went legit that way. It's exactly what Microsoft wanted - one of the reasons 7 Ultimate and 8 top tier upgraded to 10 pro only.
Even today, government only moves against business users without valid licenses - but they won't bother any company for using Home, Student, etc. over Professional or Enterprise editions.
Conscientious people would reinstall many times with WGA remover tool and "activate" in order to find proper driver order and only than reinstall with licensed copy to properly activate.
@@sigun0 Think music, TV and film industries and DRM. hahahahaha. It's funny how these companies NEVER learn. Who is going to buy an MP3 they can only play on 3 devices when they can download an MP3 they can play anywhere?
Honestly, these guys are their own worst enemies and they just don't get it.
That one guy: There's no such thing as a read-only registry key.
This guy: Yes there is, because I invented it.
What a flex to be able to use. That's wild!
Quit simping for scumbags
Is that the same as Protected Storage? PStore.exe
"Source?"
"I am the source!"
But they can run some services to block the particular registry key editing.
K7 antivirus does that. You can check by yourself by trying to change its registry key.
How does it work? You know what happens if I say too much
I used to do phone activation for XP. We were instructed that at the end, customers were always right and you had to activate even if clearing house smelled shenanigans.
Compare that to how things are done today. Windows activation wasn’t evil per say but it certainly opened the door to modern DRM and reinforced the notion that we don’t own the software we paid for.
Let me be honest with you: here in Eastern Europe literally NOBODY believed that Microsoft would be benevolent with its Windows users regarding product activation, because it was perceived as an arrogant, malicious American company that even got away with its shenanigans thanks to American government backing (mind you this was at the time when all the antitrust charges against them were dropped by the government of that bastard Dubya). Which probably discouraged legal Windows use even further.
Dave's next video: How I got kidnapped by Steve Ballmer and escaped using the Windows Task Manager
You've got to grant me that dude does look a little like Steve. And I'm not shafting him, I just noticed the coincidence!
@@DavesGarage in air quotes "coincidence".
Throws chair...
Running and ducking from flying chairs.
""He is also infamous for a legend in which he threw a chair at former employee, Mark Lucovsky, after the engineer told Ballmer that he would be leaving Microsoft to join its competitor, Google. "
“Prior to joining Google, I set up a meeting on or about November 11, 2004 with Microsoft’s CEO Steve Ballmer to discuss my planned departure….At some point in the conversation Mr. Ballmer said: “Just tell me it’s not Google.” I told him it was Google.
At that point, Mr. Ballmer picked up a chair and threw it across the room hitting a table in his office. Mr. Ballmer then said: “F-ing Eric Schmidt is a f-ing p-sy. I’m going to f-ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I’m going to f-ing kill Google.”
Not often you get to hear these kind of stories from folks who were there and involved. Thanks Dave!
try to read the book "Showstopper". It's a great look back at this era. It's so cool to hear Dave talk about this.
Love looking under the hood with you, thanks!
"seatbelts and airbags" yes that is where I thought it was going.
Same I 😂
This is the comment I was looking for. Thanks.
2 condoms with tiger balm in between. If one of 'em fails, someone is really going to know about it.
@@PinataOblongata that'd get someone's attention
@@PinataOblongata I've heard Deep Heat/IcyHot. In Austrailia we'd say "Double tarp it, with a layer of deep heat in between" (tarp is short for tarpaulin)
You still deserve a 5.0 score for your channel. It's absolutely mindblowing to get all the precious pieces of information you put out there for us, as well as hystorical stuff and whatnot. You're a legend, Dave !
"It's the most reliable axe I've ever owned. I've only replaced the blade twice and the handle three times!"
A good axe head will last a lifetime if cared for properly. Handles suffer the most during splitting and they shrink loosening up, so you'll want to keep replacing them.
Yes, and if you purchased a license to chop down trees then it shouldn't matter how many handles and blades you have used.
But is the license applied to you to chop trees, or authorization to use that axe to do the chopping?
I have a driver's license that lets me drive any car up to a certain weight.
I have a registration that lets anyone with a driver's license drive my Prius on the public streets, but shows I own it.
As for replacing the blade twice and handle 3 times, you have to also factor timeframe of the replacements to determine quality.
Such replacements in one or two years time chopping once a week? Poor.
Over 2 decades chopping each workday? Excellent.
I keep thinking about the joke from the beginning of the movie "John Dies at the End."
"That's the axe what slayed me.....but was it?"
:')
idk why but i laughed at this for at least a minute
One of the best tech channels on the internet right now. Nothing rehashed, no crazy editing or effects to cover up bad content.
Dave i'd buy you a beer one day!
Wow, thanks! Please let folks know so the channel grows :-)
4:10 "I was not gonna rootkit the machine..."
2005: _Sony BMG has entered the chat._
Just about every anti-virus rootkits the OS. It has to do that to "compete" with malware.
@@zwz.zdenek unless it's McAfee because it's essentially a virus :D
Epic comment!
Hahah so true that it's sad
I've noticed that I've had more issues with systems when an antivirus program was installed versus one where none were installed...
I wish I found this channel sooner. I love these looks back to the past. Early computing is so interesting to me, everything was so new and exciting. I love hearing about guys like Steve, Bill, but I love even more to hear from the engineers who were on the ground really building this stuff. Bravo on an amazing career, and thanks for building what I love and use everyday.
Ah yes, activating windows over the phone or as we called it, "The Windows 7 Nuclear Launch Codes"
"Choose the option to activate over the phone" Step 1 of the installation instructions of every pirate version of windows I ever used...
I love that name
@@memitim171 then put everything as 0 (that's how the office crack works, so i'm assuming it's that here)
This goes back to before Windows 7... had to do this for Windows XP.
@@thepwrtank18cool
The TH-cam AI did me a solid with this one for once.... This whole channel, even going by skimming previous uploads, is an absolute necessity of a subscription
Indeed.
Former Microsoft Escalation engineer here ( support ) that interfaced with Windows QFE group. So I was one of the guys asking the devs for hotfixes. . Really enjoying the Windows history stuff. I have a lot of knowledge but not like this. Very interesting stuff please keep it up! I seem to recall is that WPA had some roots in Office and BradG had a lot to do with it for the Terminal Server product it actually TSLS which the Windows core product borrowed. It's also important to note that Windows server and Windows workstation are the same code. The build number or release may and does differ but all the same code base .
Txs Greg for putting in your sweat equity to keep it huming.
Windows is the first OS stack that made "the web" an household staple through 56k USR Modems.
🤗
Brings back memories, and a very useful tip if I can remember it in a few years time. Two types of protection, Seatbelts and Airbags. Having fun binge watching these vids. So much history is being explained and reasons giving for the pain we suffered from.
I'm in no way an expert programmer, I just like to listen to interesting stories. Keep 'em coming!
Will do! Send me ideas on what to cover!
@@DavesGarage hey Dave, do you happen to know about the NSA_KEY in Windows?
Thank you for bringing these videos, they’re really interesting
I'm not a programmer at all but find this stuff extremely fascinating.
How about blue screen and windows games
@@DavesGarage would love to know if you know the real origin of the "Mr. Enigma" registry key.
Also be interesting to see an explanation of why Windows still has reserved filenames for "CON", "PRN" etc. and the history of those device names.
Discovered some other interesting quirks too like why excel only supports path lengths of only 218 chars due to the way it references other workbooks.
In high school, some kids took "multiple layers of protection" a totally different way not knowing it actually decreased the amount of protection. Glad to see you teaching your boys right.. seatbelts and airbags all the way.
Yeah, using a helmet would only be an extra when you already have two trusty protections on your body, while driving.
Though I'm struggling to understand what the seatbelt would refer to
\*lays layer upon layer of thousands of permuatation of SSL and TLS on top of another protocol\*
But in ｔｕｒｄ ｗｏｒｌｄ ｃｏｕｎｔｒｉｅｓ like Indonesia, the seatbelts and airbags don't even matter because they wanna die like a real human
Oh, did i mention if Indonesia loves to break the traffic rules (lane hogging, speeding, carrying beyond capacity, road rage, driving/riding under influences, distracted driving/riding, using rotators and strobes even though you have no interest to using it)
@@Just-View When wearing a helmet don't forget the neck brace as well. Keeps you from snapping your neck in a sudden stop. So always double up your protection.
as a current microsoft employee, as well as a computer history buff, and one fascinated by Microsoft's history, this sceatches all the right itches. :D
Which team are you on, if you can share? :)
@@masterman1502 not the spell check team
@@unnamedchannel1237 lol
Yes, I for one would like to thank you for Window's activation. Without out it I would never had made the jump to Linux! When I received a demand for £65 to use a copy of XP I had already bought for my upgraded computer boiled my piss. So again, thank you. I've been a happy Linux Mint user since 2006.
I guess if you're one of the 5% who can tolerate Linux as their main desktop system then yes, lucky you. I'm not one of them.
@@toby9999 Tolerate? Unless you are running specialized software only written for Windows, or are a hard-core gamer, you can do pretty much everything on Linux these days. Even hard-core gaming!
But hey, use what you like.
@@toby9999Tell me you know nothing about modern Linux without telling me you know nothing about modern Linux.
Having my motherboard blow was a huge bummer. Replacing it was a pain. Realizing after doing so that I had to re-buy Windows again, even though I was still using all the same parts other than the mobo was infuriating!
As someone who had to move a hard drive over to an older, but virtually identical, laptop due to a screen break: customer support is understanding, and will help you get your activation squared away. The lady I got didn't ask any questions that struck me as her being suspicious of me (not even of the "I'm required by my company to be suspicious" variety) or try to put up any unnecessary red tape or anything!
@@PhirePhlame Yup, my copy of Windows 10 deactivated itself when I changed my motherboard, gave Microsoft a call and was rather surprised at how quick and easy the process was to get things reactivated. One of the nicest and smoothest customer service calls I've ever had, top marks to Microsoft for that one.
@@FuzzWoof Even now, the activation troubleshooter in Windows 10 and 11 is an absolutely amazing tool. I've had my computer deactivate on Windows 10 after a GPU change. Went to the troubleshooter and in seconds it reactivated.
One hardware change doesn't trigger that. Multiple changes do. I had to reactivate after upgrading my mobo, cpu and ram but I'm not rebuying Windows for that. I paid for it and it's the one and only time I'm okay with using less than legal means to get around it.
@@TUUK2006 it's not necessarily illegal if you've actually bought the license. Preventing paying customers from using a product might be. And even if the reactivaton can be done through a call, the unofficial method is a better user experience.
The bigger picture is that Microsoft wanted everyone on the planet to run their software, even if a substantial number did not pay for it. Windows and Office became (and still are) the de facto world standard that everyone in business and academia needs to learn and to use. Microsoft is worth 2.27 trillion. Mission accomplished.
This is further evidenced by the fact that workarounds were built-in in win95 and much of the software of that era. Typing in a bunch of 1's when it asked for a product key, it would accept it without further question. Then, as now I suspect, market dominance is far more important than preventing piracy.
@@tythagoras5787 even now i believe you can still use all Xs to bypass the key entry and get yourself into the evaluation period (worked with win10 but i havent tried on 11 since i didnt do a fresh reinstall)
True.
But. Their security is clunky and difficult.
And .0002% of Windows users are going to pirate it and show Microsoft who’s in charge. It’s like you didn’t even read the comments Tailspin. Jeez.
I try to avoid Windows, been using Linux for 10 years.
@@bwgti Running unlicensed Microsoft software was extremely common 10 or 15 years ago. I developed Access database systems freelance for 20 years (retired last year) so I got to see a lot of offices. I recall one small office on a building development site running a few Windows PCs with only one Office 2010 CD. It let them install freely 3 or 4 times, then one day when I was there working they needed to load on a new machine and it refused. Their solution ? Call Microsoft support with a sob story about their old machine dying and get given a new authorisation code. Licensing just seemed to be for big corporate customers- everyone else could freely pirate, presumably to build the usage base and eliminate the competition.
Man, I remember in the early days when I was testing OS capability with a BIOS I was working on... I went to install XP on my reference design, and didn't have the product key handy, so I entered an MS Office key I did happen to have handy, and Windows just accepted it! This did stop working on later builds, but I did get a bit of a laugh out of this.
Laughs 20 times.
@@BulletproofKuloodporny You have 5 laughs left before you must activate.
@@RogerWKnight del c:
I remember installing something -- Windows, Office, Visual Studio -- I can't remember, it's been like three decades or so since then.
All I can remember is that it was a beta version, and that I could not locate the product key they gave me. In frustration, I entered either all zeroes, or 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... etc. -- and it worked.
In fact, I'm pretty sure this happened twice, one time with all zeroes, one time with 1 2 3 4 ... (different products, I _think_ but am not sure).
I think the only numbers that counted were the last 4 or so to validate the os code, so even if you had mostly 0’s as long the last couple ones are valid. Well let’s say there weren’t too many combinations, so it’s reasonable that at that time most other ms software with a key could work on older os like 95 98 etc but not anymore from vista onwards or 7 onwards not sure.
As a software engineer for 20 years (currently a director), I absolutely love these videos. Such a wealth of information!
I’d like to hear more about the logon screen, it’s evolution from Windows 95 to XP.
Yes! This! Please talk to us about the Cancel button and why it works as it used to
I wouldn't pair Windows 95 with XP in this regard. Logon was radically different in 9X (95, 98, ME) than it is with NT-based systems (NT, 2000, XP, Vista…).
Did 9X even have a login without using Netware etc? I think the evolution is more from NT 3.5 -> XP
I'd like to know why I can't just start typing the login, or why the start screen Loves to get into a state where it won't go away preventing login
@Mike Manfredi Yeah, it wasn't meant as a login to the computer, just a login to the computer's local network credentials.
Unfortunately, product activation can really hamper repair of things like CAT scanners that run on older copies of Windows, on isolated machines. If I can’t activate the OS, then, when the machine fails, it could be disastrous. Especially when replacing the equipment isn’t an option. Not saying people shouldn’t pay for software, but owning software instead of a license is definitely an important use case.
Clasic case of project/developer stupidity, ie the PM/developer did not design the software or project to be maintained. They did not forsee that the OS would not need to be upgraded and did not plan to support the software that was developed, they assumed they could keep using the same hardware and software for 20 or 30 years which is never going end well. This is not Windows Activartion issue it is a project managment issue that did not look at the full expected life cycle of the product.
This is common to 99% of all projects as project managers and developers are paid to deliver a project withing a given short timescale somwher between 1 day and 12 months not 20 years.
@@lorribot64 unfortunately, none of what you said there matters to the hospital that bought the best product they could at the time they bought it. It’s still a Windows Activation issue because when someone designs a product, they generally use whatever is available at the time. So, the hospital buys the best product available, but can’t necessarily replace the entire thing when the computer fails. And while we might like a company to update their software for old products, they may have made THEIR money and moved on. This leaves the hospital with 2 options: scrape together money they weren’t planning to spend yet, or, more likely, try to find a way to restore the old machine. But, without a way to activate the box (say it ran Windows 7) and no updated drivers for a newer version of Windows, they might be spending that money on the CAT scanner instead of something else they really needed. Other option might be to send people elsewhere until they can update the machine, but given how fast tech moves, they’ll likely be in that mode again. If on the other hand, there was a better option, like to actually own the copy of Windows for that device, then the machine could likely be used until it was actually slated for upgrade. Note that this goes for MANY other devices. Generally, if it might require a specialized driver, it may only have been targeted for the current crop of hardware and software available. You can’t necessarily expect them to know where Microsoft is going. And when things do change, you can’t expect them to update all of their old stuff. The people that built that CAT scanner might not even still work there. But, what you might expect, when you buy something you do plan on owning for a while, is that a license activation doesn’t stop you from continuing to use the product until you are ready to scrap it. But Microsoft doesn’t give you such an option with something like, say, Windows 7, because they don’t even run the activation servers anymore. Just a question, if you need a vehicle, do you own or lease? I’d guess lease. It can be quite expensive to replace certain equipment frequently. Not saying it should never be replaced, but expecting people can always update is pretty short-sighted. Everyone would love to replace most everything they own with something new, but eventually you’d like to do something more sustainable.
@@roboknight I buy my cars second hand. They have a life expectancy based on currant age, condition and expected usage and they are replaced at a given time. It is called life cycle planning.
If you plan for the lifecycle of a product to be 20 years you should not be specifying a Windows OS as they are only supported for 10 years unless you expect to do regular updates or refreshes, Computer hardware is unlikely to be last that long so you will need to plan for replacement of that.
Even governments refresh Aircraft airframes , wings and engines or 20 year old planes. but for some reason no one thinks about these things up front in any technology project and actually looks at the life expectancy of the device and maps out how that will unfold over the intervening years.
If you specify a sledge hammer to crack a nut it i s not the hammers fault when in smashes the nut to pieces.
Did the Windows XP Embedded SKU require online activation?
@@soundspark Yeah i don't think it actually does.
Really enjoy these inside stories from early software development at MS. In a way you give software like task manager, product activation etc. a face and remind us that someone actually sat down and coded these.
I don't have any suggestions of the top of my head, but I'll let you know. Looking forward to your next video!
Thanks for the kind words!
When you said read-only registry key , I was one of the thousands of programmers who said “what?”
I am still unsure what he is on about... Its not one of those invisible "owned-by-system" keys that you have to access from WinPE?
I always just lied on the phone activation saying "I only activated two pcs" despite using the same copy of windows on like a dozen friend's PCs. It always worked
enjoy hell
@@butter262 Lovely tropical weather I hear
@@butter262 I will lol
I was working in a client’s offices one day and they had already installed The same copy of Office on 4 PCs, but the 5th wouldn’t activate. The boss told the secretary to phone Microsoft and tell them their PC had died and they were loading up the replacement. It worked of course. Tbh there were so many ways of getting round activation, using academic copies, etc. it seemed that paying for software was just something big companies did. The rest of us it used it for free and helped with the marketing effort in the process.
Then you might as well download the WPA crack
I don’t mind activation, but as a vintage computer collector, I wonder what the future holds. It would be nice if Microsoft would release installation media for there older OSs that included all updates. If sold for a reasonable price I think there would be a limited market.
Just a few weeks ago there were news, that the Win XP activation had been cracked. Maybe this helps the retro community.
Plenty of 'site license' copies are available, and are far more flexible wrt activation.
@@4lpha0nelike... In a different way? Since Windows 95 people had fake/pirated Windows. XP was also heavily pirated. I don't get your "they cracked the XP activation system". Like... When was it not cracked?
MS still is hosting the updates, there is a project called LegacyUpdate that reroutes them to non-SSL capable installs and works great, also fixes the endless searching for updates loop. There may be some workaround for win9x as well
Those previous ways were workarounds, the crack he is talking about completely decrypted the activation process. Meaning not even Microsoft would be able to tell the difference
This was fascinating! Love hearing all of the thought and engineering that goes into each topic. I'd love to hear about the origins of XP and your opinions about its success and sticking power.
The fundamental problem with all DRM no matter how carefully engineered is that it will only ever bite honest customers.
Exactly. Especially in the case of games. DRM is really only there to protect the sales for the first few days of the release. I always think it's funny to read forum posts of innocent buyers of the product when the DRM breaks the game and they get accused of stealing it when they didn't. About 4 or 5 years ago there was a flight simulator developer that put a program that would steal chrome passwords and send them unencrypted back to the company. Their excuse for putting it in there was that they were trying to steal information from pirates.
Also, there was another flight sim DRM problem with the PMDG MD-11. If the DRM suspected that you using a cracked copy, if you attempted to install a livery for the plane, it would just delete your whole simobjects folder. That means all aircraft models, default and purchased downloaded content would of had to be reinstalled. If it was something that was not downloadable anymore then it was just gone forever. Most of the people that were effected by this were people that paid over 60 dollars for the addon. The liveries that would bomb the simobjects folder also cost money.
It really added to the failure in uptake of BluRay. They doubled down on DVD's and then some.
Same argument is made for gun control, the war on drugs, etc. It rarely changes the mind of those in power though.
are you stupid? He LITERALLY addressed it.
Thankfully there's hundreds of millions of honest customers, if not more.
To hear Dave discuss the thinking and planning behind Windows evolution makes me appreciate the approach of proprietary thinking a little better. I myself prefer Linux / FOSS as a software model, but the perspective and thought behind Windows from his perspective does open my eyes a little. I am subbed to hear more.
This video reminded me of something I would really like to know more about: the history of the Windows Registry. What triggered its development, what was its intended scope of use, what were hurdles in its development, and what do the developers (former and/or current) think of what it turned into?
I only remember that it was (among other things) meant to replace all those *.ini files...
@@ReadersOfTheApocalypse it couldn't necessarily do that though, depending on what's inside it.
There's actually a lot of information on this written by one of the other old school Windows devs, Raymond Chen. He runs a blog called "The Old New Thing".
IIRC, it started as a place to register COM objects - hence the name "registry".
It was expanded to cover configuration data after they started running in to many situations where the all-settings-in-one-file or in-some-files was becoming too restricting.
They needed something that could be read from and written to by multiple people simultaneously, without corruption.
They needed something that could support localization. (They considered the INI format locked, because suddenly throwing Unicode data into something that was previously always ANSI/ASCII would break a lot of programs that did their own parsing of INI files.)
They needed something centralized.
They needed something securable at a higher granularity than just file permissions. (i.e., if you have access to change one setting in an INI file, you have access to change everything in the INI file. They wanted more granular permissions, so programs and the system could secure specific keys from each other, if required.)
I remember being astounded that Windows wasn't seeking re-activation despite some heavy hardware changes I made... Now I know why. I owe you almost 20 years of thanks! 😊👍
Thanks? Because they let you continue using something that you had paid them for?
Why?
@@tasmedic if he would not have programmed it someone who were worse could have
I'm enjoying your stories and the context Dave, thanks so much for sharing with us!
I love hearing the design decisions, and thought process from a seasoned developer.
Fun fact: Here in germany it is not allowed by law to bind a software licence to hardware. So you can take your Windows licence from one PC to the next.
Oh I remember that hell back then MS got into. People threatened to sue them if they are not stopping this crap.
Somebody moved from a Dell PC to a DIY one and of course, the MAK didn't work. We actived it illegally but the key was still his and he bought it with his Dell PC.
Now we use digital keys and no media anymore, so it's not really easier but possible to just activate with a illegal key. Even go around the problem with own KMS servers on the router or somewhere is a way MS will never got rid off. But they are only hunting for bigger companies, not private persons.
Though why does Windows still say that the hardware has changed and that i need to buy a new Windows 10 license every time i change something major on my PC (which i do alot)
@@onix331 Good question, i can't answer it tho. I had no problems so far with my licences. The most i had to do was to register my XP by phone and had a human asking me if i really had deleted XP from the other PC.
@@onix331 i changed my whole PC (even from intel to amd), just nvme drive with Windows 10 intallation was from the old PC, and it did not complain (even that nvme was not original installation drive, I moved win10 install from another ssd in old pc to it, so in a way this was completely new pc)
@@onix331 So what did you change ? Mainboard ? Just use the old key and phone activation, it will ask you on how many pcs its installed and you say 1, that's it.
Never thought I would enjoy Dave's videos so much ! Haven't used windows myself for ages now but these videos are really interesting ! Keep it up !
Para de puxar o saco, cara!
Worked with Microsoft products (OS and Apps) since Dos 3.0 and Word 2.0 (as well as WordPerfect 5.0, PFS First Choice, Lotus 1-2-3, VP Planner - oops, gotta duck and avoid that Tetradactyl flying overhead...). Thank you for the trip down memory lane. It is great to pop the hood and see what the software engineers working on products were thinking at the time - one of the most valuable channels on 'the tube'!
Its crazy to think that this implementation is most likely still in use somewhere in windows 10.
I imagine stuff has changed but this series has really amazed me with how much stuff still *IS* the same as 20 years ago!
@@DavesGarage it seems the old saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it" fully applies at the core level.
Adding an App store was a great idea to copy the Apple revenu stream.
✌️
👏
I recently upgraded my motherboard and CPU. Activation failed and I had to spend over 45 minutes on the phone to Microsoft support.. transferred between various agents and had to email them PDFs of my invoice for motherboard and CPU before they would re-active my PC. Towards the end of the call I was starting to consider just buying another copy of Windows... glad I did not... but gosh what a horrible customer experience. This was a great example of paying customers [me] suffering when the pirates just enjoy their free software.
Some of it must be still there, I changed my mobo and cpu, and had to call to reactivate. Sent them proof of purchase of the old mobo, click. Activated.
@@saveker With Win10 you can bind your License to a Microsoft account. If it fails activation, you can then choose "Troubleshooting -> I changed my hardware" and select a license for your Windows edition from your account. It's quite handy to save your license this way (could also theoretically maybe transfer to another PC this way)
Would love to hear more about the code review, branch and merge process used in the older days.
What where your dev machines like.
Also some crunch time story’s
Also the thinking behind service packs and how they worked.
Good thinking! Code reviews definitely warrant their own episode, I'll make a note of it!
@@DavesGarage +1 for Ben's idea on all the various code review and "buddy build" tools that lived in various teams.
The older days:
What is this "code review, branch and merge process" you're talking about?
Yes, I always wondered about the specs of the dev machines on each era. Especially XP since it can be made to run in almost everything :)
" I knew I did pretty well for once " - The guy that had previously invented Zip folders and Task Manager in his spare time
I just got here. Your channel is utterly FASCINATING!! THANK you for the stories and vast knowledge.
I have close friends who are MSFT employees from the time of stack ranking. When MSFT got rid of it everyone rejoiced (except the folks who constantly got 4+)
I did not rejoice :-P. There may have been many excellent and needed reasons for the change, but I still don't like change!
Lance, do you know how you are doing well at MS? You still have a job. I remember congratulating a colleague on an award he had just won, it was quite a significant achievement. He blew it off like it was nothing. He said to me being above average is why you have a job here in the first place. I stopped and thought about his comment for a moment. While I have to admit that comment did make me feel kind of special, he was right MS rarely hires duds.
I've read about that. It basically meant that employees had to treat each other like enemies instead of colleagues, and who knows what kind of damage it did to the Microsoft products of that time.
The constant reactivation for hardware changes was the most frustrating part of wpa for me. It still would be I'm sure, if I didn't have an MSDN aka Visual Studio subscription these days.
There is a limit to how many keys MSDN issues and even the MAKs have a set limit. I personally respect to at least a minumum the VS EULA and limit the keys' usage to test rigs and VMs, with my daily driver desktop running a key that was originally retail Windows 7 Ultimate.
Would love to hear your thoughts on Windows Neptune and Odyssey before they merged into Whistler/XP! In the public we've only seen one leaked build of Windows Neptune and only heard rumors about Odyssey, but I'd love to learn more about both.
^^
Dang this is a good one
Nice one!
Yes! I tried that Neptune build at some point on real hardware and I really really liked it, I'd love to hear more!
omg the chuckle after 13:05 as you think about what you made happen to someone's computer if they try to do that
Thanks Dave. I always knew there was a real person that could speak English and not sound like a digital voice. Now I have a better glimpse of how it works.
You just improved my everyday programming mentality. Cheers, the way you talk is inspiring. Love these discussions.
Love your war stories.
In Australia, we have what's called Ned Kelly's axe. It's had three new axe heads and five new handles, but it's still Ned Kelly's axe.
Cool, I've never heard the axe version before!
Over here, there's the old tale of the gentleman selling George Washington's axe. Approximately the same punch line... :)
I'm a Linux guy now thanks to the frustration I experienced 20 yrs ago with WPA. Much like how I can't comprehend why TH-cam algo took 2 yrs to recommend this video I couldn't comprehend why I had to endure the perils of WPA after hardware upgrades. Can't complain as it the journey has been fruitful.
Nonetheless, thank you sir and your coworkers for the considerations you put into WPA. I endured as long as I could at that time.
I switched to Linux when Windows 10 was released, but I love to hear about older Windows versions and the work that was put into them.
Windows10 is horrible.
Windows 98 was my favorite :)
I am still using it on an older PC.
I'd still use it on newer ones if I had the drivers :p
@@cyberp0et Win2k was my favorite. Rock solid, Built on NT, and light weight.
Install a virtual win2k machine on your win 10. You'll wish microsoft had never gone to XP.
@@hicknopunk No thanks. VirtualBox works just as well on Linux. With (potentially) a lot less overhead.
@@svenkarlsen2702 how does it alter the goodness that is win2k? The os takes less than 60 megs of ram on a full boot.
Dave, thank you so much for doing this. I’m 32, just getting into programming. I’m trying to find out what I want to learn the most.. I don’t know where to start. But I did start learning Python.
Ah windows xp activation circa 2001...
"Windows needs to activate before logging in"
Okay I'll just run the activation...
Puts in product key
"Activated!"
System reboots
"Windows needs to activate before logging in"
Wtf I just activated, I'll run it and see what happens, what the hell
"Windows is already activated!"
System reboots
Fml
what did people do in those situations?
@@A_Box "upgraded" to windows 98 or 2000.
@@A_Box Usually got a cracked copy or copy that had a volume license associated with it. MS dropped those kinds of licenses years ago.
There was a trick we used to use I don’t recall what it was but I remember having to deal with that for a couple of clients.
Man, this is the most valuable content on youtube.
Would love to hear about when the activation started to be circumvented, how did you studied it and how you reacted.
I think he kinda alluded to that in the video. he knew people were going to circumvent it, but he was fine with that because 90 percent were doing the right thing.
@@Fanta.... I live in Bulgaria and I'm 29 years old, worked as computer technician since 17 years old. To this day I have never seen a single person or business who paid for a Windows license if it didn't came preinstalled with the computer. So it's more like 0.01 percent are buying it instead of 90.
"Someone I know" used to be really big into cracking various software, including activation and WGA. While I agree with you, certainly as a developer myself, that people who can afford software should pay for it - I also think the world would be a much better place if everyone who wanted to try to make things had access to whatever tools they need. Particularly software, as this doesn't pose any loss to the producer, if the consumer could never afford it anyway. At best, it's free advertising for the producer. At worst, a rich guy gets to do a little charity work. Personally, I went back decades later and paid for a lot of the software that I pirated as a kid. I think that's pretty common, according to studies. If I didn't pirate those things, I likely never would have escaped ASD level 3 and would probably still be living with a highly abusive parent. Now that I'm moderately functional, I try to pay it back and pay it forward.
So if the World was perfect and these things wouldn't get abused, the World would be lerfect, interesting view on the World, sadly it's obviously not perfect. Also if cracks weren't so broken or would get the same updates easily I wouldn't have bought these products afterwards.
I think Windows has addressed this issue (if you can then you should pay for it). While still letting poor high school me use it. Last time I installed windows. I remember it working for free. I just couldn't "personalize" it, until I paid for it. That sounds like such a lil' trivial thing. But it's not. Yet all of the "power" was still available, it just didn't "feel" right. I used the "free" type for a week or two until my key came.
In my case that's why I decided to try open source and Linux, as a kid I pirated EVERYTHING you can imagine. Music? Ares, LimeWire and some websites. Games? Halo, Sims 2, The Elder Scrolls, Diablo. Software? Everything about Adobe and Microsoft office.
But when I entered college I realized that the music and games I like needs support for being so niche, and there's open source software that can do what I need like Krita+Gimp+G'mic. I start getting tired to pirated Adobe (I can't pay Adobe license for 2 programs, it's like it's meant to business, not to normal users) so I'm looking how much I can survive with open source and Linux on college before I'm pushed to pirated
Wow, I didn't realize that developing software was free! I should have known though, since no software dev has ever gone bankrupt.
Easy to say when you are taking someone else's stuff. Less so when someone is helping themselves to the fruits of YOUR labor.
_Richard Stallman has left the chat_
Stop him! He didn't even pay for a ticket!
It's getting stuffy in here. Can somebody open up some windows?
@@DavesGarage He paid for the ticket, he just paid in cash so no one would know
Hi Dave,
I like the content and the format.
Doing a lot of work with public and private keys at the moment and it got me thinking, what if you just overwrite the public key with your own. Niceto know that there are checks and balances and "If you tinker we can see you".
Just wanted to start a dialog. Will have a think about what I would like to hear.
In the mean time glad to hear you're doing it for the subs out there
Thank you for the content you’re making. This is like the genius behind the magic of my childhood. My first pc was a windows 95 and I’ve grown up with every operating system since. Really fascinating insights 😊
Can you talk about DirectX and it’s history of development?
Listen, I'm gonna level with you @xuzeliu ... after watching some of Dave's videos, i actually tried to seek any retired or even active DirectX team members with youtube channels
I didn't find any, at least not in the time I tried, im sure *someone* is out there
In a nutshell Director of DixectX states OpenGL is a better product and gets sacked.
Even the devs weren't allowed to know how all of DX worked. It was black-box code, split across several teams to assure that nobody could actually crack the whole API and write a wrapper for Linux or Mac.
That's why it was such a cumbersome piece of garbage.
Vulcan is better anyways lol
I am a proud recipient of one of the rare 5.0 review scores that Dave mentioned in the video.
Cool, I've talked to a couple of people in the last few days that had done it. Congrats!
Everything story I hear in Dave's Garage not only makes me nestalgic, but teaches me more than I expected
17:25 Let's be realistic. It wasn't just sometimes subverted. Like most forms of DRM, it was an extra thing paying customers had to deal with, while it barely slowed the pirates that just nuked WPA. Same with WAT in Vista, 7, etc. WPA/WAT was just another in a long line of anti piracy schemes that did next to nothing to actually stop piracy. Great video overall, as always.
you would be surprised how many people do not crack their software just because of some soft drm
Over the years of doing residential/small business IT support, this is the thing that has bugged me no end.. The randomly failed activations or randomly triggered WPA issues. Now I know who I've been cursing for all these years.
I got to the point I had the number memorised. The web interface was much more aggressive than the phone operators., that's for sure.
The only "DRM" that actually works is audit. Any technical solution can be bypassed.
Back in the good ole days, I worked in IT asset management. We purchased 1500 licenses for Windows 3.1 (or upgrades to 3.1, can't remember). So each individual license was its own piece of paper and came in a folder. This ended up being something like 6 boxes of paper we had to keep. I had hoped it could've been two pieces of paper, one for 1000, and one for 500.
Such an interesting video and perspective! I’m in the process of putting together an offline Windows XP rig and experienced telephone activation for the first time while I was setting it up. I was honestly in awe that such a robust system existed and is still functional today. Really cool to hear your breakdown and design philosophy behind it.
I remeber being a beta tester for Windows XP, and then got a full retail version as a thank you for submitting so many bugs back to Microsoft (I think I reported well over 500 bugs over the entire beta testing). I remember the jump from running Win 95 to XP and having to get new hardware as I was running the beta releases on an AMD K5 with 128MB RAM. Then someone gave me a pirate copy of Win XP corporate which didn't need activation on the day of XP being released. I never used the pirate copy as my everday system, but used it for further bug testing and writing software and drivers.
Dave, one consequence of WPA is when building an XP retro gaming PC I essentially had to hack the activation even though I think I personally own five or six Windows licenses. I understand the risks of Windows XP in everyday use, but the 32-bit version still has a lot to offer - lots of compatibility and hardware audio. But once the OS reaches its end of life, no activation servers essentially means the OS is dead or you have to look for a shady cracked version that probably has malware to steal the non-existent personal info on that computer, but also maybe compromise your whole network.
i think they had cracked the phone activation so you can safely run that on a VM
That's intentional. Upgrade and enjoy paying for getting snooped on.
@@sniglom It's not like I'm gonna keep on using Windows XP on my daily driver or get on the Internet with an XP PC.
They could just remove WPA in a final update when it stops being supported and be done with it.
Because, you know, those who want to pirate XP will keep pirating it, WPA or not. Even Windows 11 can easily be pirated. At this point WPA is just making life harder for people like me, not software pirates.
@@thebayandurpoghosyanshow I run arch btw.
The contents of HKLM\SYSTEM\WPA can easily be changed by mounting the SYSTEM registry hive on another windows installation so the "read-only" protection must be entirely within the kernel.
I'd be really surprised if it's anything more than just setting ACL permissions on the key. Obviously it's not going to be enforced unless the Windows that owns the hive is running, since the other Windows doesn't know who the GUIDs listed in those ACLs belong to. This same way you can bypass NTFS filesystem ACLs when you have physical access to the computer.
There are also Linux tools for editing registry hives.
Lol first!! love the channel! Was just watching the previous videos when this one came on
listened to this during breakfast, starting the day with a good mood 👍🏼 very enjoyable
12:25 that part really got me, very good haha
Ha! Hope this wasn't too over the top, just kind of made it up as I went :-)
@@DavesGarage It was perfect! I think it is always good and fun on a video to joke a bit about the topic :)
@@DavesGarage He's talking about S-E-X in front of the C-H-I-L-D-R-E-N!
Sex Cauldron?! I thought they closed that place down!
Linux users don't need this advice. They never leave their room.
Neither do Mac users, they use each other's backdoor, raw.
@@AllahDoesNotExist I use Windows on my desktop, Linux on my servers and mac OS on my ASUS laptop thanks to OpenCore. What does that say about me? 🤔
I do find your topics very interesting. About the time of XP, I found Windows was getting in the way of my internet experience so I switched to Linux. I do have one partition of a triple boot with Windows. I only use it to keep up with helping others when they have issues. It still takes forever to update it every 2 months.
I've never used Linux as a desktop OS for long periods of time. The couple of times I tried (Ubuntu), I found that it was far too easy to brick the install through a bad upgrade or similar experience. For as much as Windows has a reputation of being an OS you have to reinstall ever year or so, I actually haven't had to reinstall Windows to fix something since the Windows Vista days. This is a legitimate, good faith question from me to you (presumably someone who has used Linux as a desktop OS for decades now): do you think my experience with desktop Linux is normal, or did I just get unlucky? Do you believe Linux is viable as a "general purpose" desktop OS these days (putting aside the issue of hardware vendors making drivers available and such)?
@@masterinsan0 ubuntu is the worst, you should use a distro like vanilla os if you're worried of bricking your system
@@masterinsan0 also if you use nvidia linux is almost guaranteed to fail in some way because nvidia drivers are proprietary
I wish there were licenses for ‘curious teenagers without money’. I built Frankenstein computers with parts acquired from friends and families old PCs and was lucky enough to have found a copy of a corporate XP license. Without it, there would have been no way to for me to afford the keys I needed.
Modern activation is pretty forgiving. I suppose there's also MSDNAA/Dreamspark/Azure for Education/whatever the hell they're calling it these days, although those licenses may technically be "upgrade" licenses
With something like gvg mall you can get a full featured legit legal windows 10 pro key for like 15-20 bucks. Hardly a big deal even for an aspiring builder.
I have a corporate copy of XP I got from a teacher in my IT class. It doesn't have activation at all.
Thank you for your videos in general, but mainly for the videos from my formative years with computers (94 - 2006). You've jogged so many memories from a time I had more hair and was way more confident in my abilities.
0:36 - 1:16
While I agree, I feel that argument only really holds up if the company or organization also deals ethically with the end-user. Something which Adobe is known not to do and I'd argue that Microsoft does not do so either at this point in time. Even the enterprise versions of Windows are basically just home with a few extra features tacked on. You still get served consumer features like Candy Crush or have random things like news and weather activated by default on all machines that recieves that update. For stability reasons, you're best served to wait for half a year to a year after every major update or new OS release, simply to avoid problems that should have been caught in testing and quality control. But at this point end-users, nearly regardless of Windows version, are subject to become unwanted beta testers if they follow Microsoft's advice and update the moment something is out. Some may disagree, but LTSC is basically what Enterprise -and Windows in general- should have been from a usability point of view at the very least. So in the abbreviated words of Gaben: Piracy stems not from price but from a service problem.
I agree - ethically I don't agree with supporting Adobe. They're basically an abusive relationship as they wring you out for ever-increasing amounts of money.
I am not using Windows because I want to, but because the software and games I use dictate that I have to. If it were entirely up to me, I would not be using Windows. Even if I could pay for LTSC, why would I pay for an OS that I dislike using and that its developer has stopped caring about?
@@expression3639 Yea, because the stuff that was said at the beggining is simply not in line with Bill G. ideas about Microsoft. Bill was very open that if someone is not willing to pay then he should be using Microsoft product anyway... So that whole explanation why for example the date of the first activation was not hiden is very far from the truth and that is why so many people are using Windows 10 without the activation and Microsoft is not doing anything about it(only showing small info on the corner of the screan).
Piracy stems from peoples' desire to get something for nothing. You can rationalize it all you want, but that is what it is
I was far too excited to see a new posting by Dave. You're a 5 in my book.
Excellent video. I'd be interested in hearing any insider details about how Microsoft handled leaks of the source code for Windows 2000. What was the reaction? What changes were made?
Interesting discussion. I had largely forgotten the days of phone activation - but now you remind me, I do remember the pain of trying to explain to someone on the phone that I had been forced to reinstall Windows for the 10th time, due to a Windows bug, which was honestly common back then, and them flatly refusing to help re-activate. We supported thousands of machines and this was almost a daily occurrence.
You, my friend, are an inspiration to all programmers. Please keep teaching us about everything and anything that you want. I think we all feel smart by having an interesting "conversation" with someone who knows what he's talking about.
I think I've called the product activation center more times than I've called my Mom
And *this* is why we run the warez version.
The activation is now stored on Microsoft's servers, allowing automatic activation even if you reinstall everything from scratch. And evaluation versions of the main consumer versions is effectively infinite: the only issue is a bit of nagware if you leave the unactivated computer on for too long.
That only happens if you register with a Microsoft account though. If you don't want to do that, good luck getting Windows to even recognize your copy as legitimate in case you need to reinstall.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino No, I never do that, but I reupgraded a computer back to Windows 10 after downgrading to Windows 7, and it activated automatically.
Microsoft mentions it as a big deal that, since Windows 10, it now stores your hardware ID on its own servers, and will automatically reactivate. People use it all the time to do a clean install after upgrading.
As far as I can tell, the Microsoft Account stuff is for transferring a license from one hardware ID to another. It lets you automate the process if you just changed your hardware too much, or if you want to migrate your license to a different computer.
Like the homage to the "Friendly Giant" at the end of the video. For those who not familiar , it was a children's program that aired in Canada from 1958 to 1985 on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) . Episodes of this show has made it onto TH-cam, Also like the "CBC O4" which is the VHF channel 4 for CBC in Ottawa, Canada.
I would be interested in some content on features in Windows that ended up being cut in the final version.
Tabbed file explorer. Truly sad.
@@userPrehistoricman Why do we still not have this?
@@fourscoreand9884 MS were considering it for Windows 10 but dropped it idk why. I use a thing called QTTabBar instead
@@userPrehistoricman I see, interesting.
Yes! Things like WinFS...
What I always found interesting was how companies like Microsoft, Adobe, and many others were crying about piracy all the while they were growing larger and larger, well before DRM like product activation, SecuROM, StarForce, and others came about, so it always felt really disingenuous to make such claims that were impossible to actually quantify.
Something else to consider is that PA came out around the time period of the Sony Rootkit, among other DRMs that acted just like malware, which was seen by many as a massive violation of the public trust, that such corporations had no problem showing complete disregard for the rights of their own customer's, that paying customers were going to be treated as criminals and be forced to prove that they obtained the software/game legitimately.
Methods like PA always felt like an overreach that violates the First Sale Doctrine which states that after money has changed hands, the producer should not be involved in the operation of the product thereafter, but by forcing customers to prove they bought the title legitimately, they are involving gatekeeping after the point of purchase, which many have argued is inappropriate, as it is not a corporation's place to declare their customers to be criminals unless they jump through hoops, past the point of sale, when their should be zero obligation to do so.
So while I cannot encourage piracy of software and media, I certainly understand where a lot of people who were coming from, and that a lot of companies helped create the situation by engaging in more and more nefarious means that clearly went too far (such as Sony BGM's Rootkit) that were harmful to users.
Ther are a lot of arguments that could be made for pirating media.......movies tv games........the copyright laws need to be redone.........I got a notice from my ISP because I downloaded a TV show......a TV show.....that can be watched for free by any idiot with a TV and an antenna......or recorded to a DVR......but i downloaded it off the internet and i get flagged......on the other side, piracy of software is wrong.....(and I know games are technically software but I dont have time or the space to address that)......the simple fact of software is you can easily find a free version for whatever need you have.....so theres no need to steal software
Particularly galling when these companies already have a monopoly on entire global industries, the least they can do is not bloat their products with intrusive DRM. This is the sole reason I stopped using Adobe, I’d rather use an inferior product.
Thankfully Microsoft disable auto run so the Sony Rootkit does not work anymore. 😂
Whatsmore,iTunes can copy CDs with Sony Rootkit in them. 😂
"it always felt really disingenuous to make such claims that were impossible to actually quantify." - Indeed, the claims made on those grounds were completely bogus and just figments of sleazy corporate lobbyists' imagination.
"Methods like PA always felt like an overreach that violates the First Sale Doctrine" - They do, up to this day, but thanks to LOTS of corporate psychopaths probably even precedent rulings have been made which have basically vacated the First Sale Doctrine anyway.
"a lot of companies helped create the situation by engaging in more and more nefarious means that clearly went too far (such as Sony BGM's Rootkit) that were harmful to users." - Unfortunately piracy also made it easier for this corporate vermin to get away with their wrongdoings, because people who had the skills to recognize how nefarious their steps were just shrugged it off saying "meh, I'll just pirate it instead".
I like this attitude to activation. It reminds me of companies that ship DRM with their games for the first few weeks, then disable it after that. Because the point isn't to permanently prevent piracy, but to protect that first month's all important sales, when most sales will happen. Honestly, I'm on board with that
Also, everyone knows it _will_ be broken. If not today, then tomorrow. (or decades later when someone is motivated to do it.)
It's a bit different with an OS though, when you might need it run other software, possibly 20 or more years later. I have several working laptops which are licensed to run Windows XP, but thanks to WPA I have no practical way to reinstall them without resorting to dodgy cracked ISOs, so most of them are already running Linux (which is also not ideal since the distros which run best on old hardware are not supported either)
@@gags730 I don't disagree with this. I thought the whole point of slurping more and more data was to move from a paid model to a free model more like Android. That you still have to pay for a licence for Windows, at least for personal use, is stupid. They could have a free licence and still require companies to buy a business licence, and I'd bet they would be making as much money because Windows is so pervasive.
why blame you 😂😂😂😂. Your actions are what let me into software always trying to figure out a way around stuff as kid and i thank you .. damn feels good to finally see the person who sent me done the rabbit .. love u man hahaha
The current method is honestly the best imo. I think it's proven over time that some simply will never buy a license to software and the security will be more of a target when it is locked down so tightly. The Activate windows Watermark is enough of a push for those who will buy it. I find it unethical to force destructive locks to software that can end up harming the legitimate buyers over the Pirates because pirates will find a way to disable many of these measures. DRM in Gaming is an example where we are consistently punished with buggy and heavy load games because of the DRM.
I think the use of a dongle may be OK. I won't use software using any of the methods described in this video, because it always fails and DRM hassles you at the worst possible time, when you can't afford to deal with it. I also don't like the "reminders" approach. I mainly stick to open source software now, but if it's something important, I'll buy something that uses a dongle for licensing. That seems to be robust enough not to inconvenience legitimate users.
@@slivnik I have 10 USB ports on my machine and there are times that every one of them is occupied. A Dongle would be a real pain in the butt in many Professional Use case scenarios where every bit of io is often being pushed to it's limit. I can see it for very specific uses but the OS is not one that would work with that. Especially with how Laptops and OEM prebuilts be having like 2 to 4 USB slots total. That becomes an issue for those users as well. Imagine The ARM patent for windows runs out and they decide to support M1's natively. How would that even work on a MBP?
I go Genuine because the black screen bothers me and watermarking is annoying when doing work. Fortunately these days the Windows Activation is mostly good. The biggest issue I run into is with games having DRM on top of Steams Built in DRM.
I believe there is a limit to DRM's usefulness and when it causes major issues for legitimate consumers it just reminds me of the Rootkit from those Sony Music CD's. Punishing paying customers.
@@slivnik the only thing a dongle will do is make it more inconvenient for legit users
Yes, I take your points, there are issues with dongles too, but personally, I'd rather have a dongle and possibly have to buy a USB hub to have an extra USB port but have it work robustly than the crappy heuristics which monitor my computer and constantly report back to mothership with information about my configuration and make the software stop working if I've added too much additional RAM. That's just typical Microsoft flakey unpredictable / non-deterministic behaviour which I find more annoying than anything else. Yes, the best thing is to have no DRM at all - just buy the official DVD and manual and then it works and you get support - and those who want to be cheap can download pirated copies and scans of the manual and risk getting a virus infection, and have no support. Personally, I'd rather pay. I think so would most users with an actual budget to buy the software. So I think all the DRM stuff is rubbish. But *personally* I find the dongle less annoying than the heuristic and the "annoying message" (or worse, "disable the software until you re-authenticate") approach.
Sorry just to add to that, I like open source software best of all. Not because it's free but because it's open source - so you can know what it's doing and be sure it's not spying on you. Like Microsoft software always does - as Dave says, constantly sending information about your configuration back to mothership. At least. Most likely rather a lot more than that. I'm perfectly happy to pay, but not to install black box software on my computer where I have no idea what it's doing.
Back in the 90ies I was running an ISP together with a friend. We wanted to sell codes that allowed people to sign up to a paid account. I knew just enough about cryptography to know I could never do that safely. So in the end I just used random numbers that I put in a database, checked for duplicates and marked the used ones as invalid. Worked. Not as sophisticated as activation, but good enough for what we needed.
Everything's Dave has talked about is available in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\. I don't if it's the legit source of first use datetime, but all other information about product activation are also there. There InstallDate right there, which is the hexadecimal value of the Unix timestamps (weirdly) of your install. There's also InstallTime but I have no idea what format it's stored in. I guess Windows developers are much more clever than that, however.
Microsoft "borrowed" a lot of Unix stuff. There's a reason the hosts file lives inside an etc directory in Windows 😉
7:59 You can use the key three times on a brand new PC before it is "broken". You then have to call the support to have the usage count reset or do it yourself on that self-service website that existed but is now gone. You was able to enter the long string of numbers your PC gives you for phone activation and either get the activation code directly or reset the number of times the key was used. It said something like "Please enter the number of times you have used that key" and if you enter something below 3 it will give you the activation code and your Windows is activated.
A video about the space cadet pinball source code would be amazing. Hopefully it isn’t considered a trade secret now...
You don't want to know how laws, sausage, and Space Cadet Pinball are made. None of them are pretty.
Space Cadet was one of three tables included in the game Full Til! Pinball.
Can you tell me why a Windows Server OS ever got a Metro UI? I and who had that great idea ....
I remember it being awful to use over RDP.
You mean Windows 8 Gold/Server 2012? That was terribly unuseable.
The reason is that client and server SKUs actually share the same binaries; only a few config files are different.
Embrace the broken "flat" design trend. It's f*cking ugly and things are looking too similar.
I recently had to use a Server 2012 VM over RDP and forgot how bad it was. I didn't mind 8.1/2012 R2 that much though, they made just enough changes to make it useable without a touch screen.
I read that at first as Whose bright idea was it to give Windows Server a UI?
Could you talk also a bit about Windows ME and Vista? It would be interesting to hear some internals 😊
Yeah Vista (Longhorn)
Actually, no! I did not work on ME and left before Vista! I take no responsibility!
/\ :'D
@@DavesGarage 🤣🤣
@@DavesGarage Even if you had worked on them, who could blame you for taking no responsibility for the versions of Windows written by Stephen King.
It is actually very enjoyable to listen to you and the stories too! (And you learn stuff woohoo!) Thanks!
Thank you for the explanation, but I still hate the trouble of licensing. The WPA and the bloatware drove me away from Windows for good. I have to learn Azure professionally, but the user interface designed by salesmen drives me up the wall and makes me curse the vendor lock in.
So, do you have any thoughts on the XP activation algorithm finally cracked fully offline? You did good!
Dave man, this man is one of my heroes(basically everyone at Microsoft).
They worked on software that gave children like us(from the third world and poor) a chance at a better life.
I know you might not read this but
THANKS!!!
Dave you are the only youtuber i let run to the end of the video. love these videos :)