a nice integral identity

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 117

  • @conovan5081
    @conovan5081 3 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    DIFFERENT ENDING?! Nice, great proof without words btw (:

  • @habermasnyc
    @habermasnyc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    Morning without Michael Penn Math is like a day without sunshine.

    • @Fun_maths
      @Fun_maths 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It's like existing without existing

  • @moonlightcocktail
    @moonlightcocktail 3 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    Loved that proof without words... could be great to see more of it

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 3 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    6:01 Hmmm... I didn’t expect that ending 😂
    PSA one more time : I’m taking a break from homeworks in order to take build a solid collection of exercises and be able to post one every day for a long time.
    But if you have an exercise you want to share for today, just post it below.

    • @manijakus
      @manijakus 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Eight celebrities meet at a party. It so happens that each celebrity shakes hands with exactly two others. A fan makes a list of all unordered pairs of celebrities who shook hands with each other. If order does not matter, how many different lists are possible?

    • @Thaplayer1209
      @Thaplayer1209 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@manijakus is it 2520

    • @manijakus
      @manijakus 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Thaplayer1209 No :)

    • @Green_Eclipse
      @Green_Eclipse 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@manijakus I believe I have the correct answer so I'll try to make the read more option appear as a spoiler warning/cover for others.
      There are 7+6+5+4+3+2+1=28 possible handshakes. However, we want every combination of handshakes and not the number. Since there are 2 options for each possible handshake (to shake or not to shake), there will be 2^28=268435456. Alternatively, you can sum up the combinations and find that the sum of combinations n choose k for all k from 0 to n is 2^n as a collary of the binomial theorem.
      Finally, to generalize for n people, the number of edges on a Kn graph is E=n(n-1)/2 and the number of lists/combinations will be 2^E.

    • @markjohn5945
      @markjohn5945 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@manijakus 3507

  • @heliocentric1756
    @heliocentric1756 3 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    ... And the video didn't stop to this day.

    • @neilgerace355
      @neilgerace355 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yes, there was never a good place.

  • @BassoonsAreAwesome
    @BassoonsAreAwesome 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Love the proof without words! It would be interesting to draw that then ask the question, 'What identity does this represent?' to get students thinking about the graphical representation.

  • @mathunt1130
    @mathunt1130 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The proof without words was simply beautiful.

  • @TypoKnig
    @TypoKnig 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love the geometric visual proof at the end!

  • @stewartcopeland4950
    @stewartcopeland4950 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Excellent proof accompanied by an action movie soundtrack!

  • @manucitomx
    @manucitomx 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Loved the proof-without-words, but sorely missed the final comment.

  • @Paul-tf6zz
    @Paul-tf6zz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    dice oculto, solo yo puedo verlo? I was surprised by the graphic proof

    • @Tiessie
      @Tiessie 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Time traveller?!

    • @goodplacetostop2973
      @goodplacetostop2973 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@Tiessie Most likely the video was uploaded 2 weeks ago but set to private.
      So this comment just had time to squeeze in before the video went private.

    • @phythematics2188
      @phythematics2188 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wolo bulo pesudo fucko bulo shito

    • @Paul-tf6zz
      @Paul-tf6zz 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@goodplacetostop2973 Tienes razón, este video me indico que era privado cuando lo vi.

  • @tomatrix7525
    @tomatrix7525 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wow, that visual proof was lovely. So simple, and great music, I think that’s something you could introduce more If you like it

  • @dr.rahulgupta7573
    @dr.rahulgupta7573 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Simple and beautiful. wow !!

  • @macrop8
    @macrop8 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I’ve been up all night trying to figure out if that’s a good place to stop

  • @tomtheultimatepro
    @tomtheultimatepro 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice identity, I came up with the graphical solution myself. I love these problems which seem very complex or impossible at first but can be reduced to something trivial (difference of areas of two rectangles).

  • @arijitdeka1869
    @arijitdeka1869 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That representation, that little graphical representation is called happiness...

  • @fangjiunnewe3634
    @fangjiunnewe3634 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That ending shrug mocks us to the end of time, as there will never be a good place to stop

  • @random19911004
    @random19911004 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is how you integrate all inverse trig functions. Transforms them from finding areas with the x axis, to finding areas with the y axis.

  • @sirlight-ljij
    @sirlight-ljij 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    bd-ac = det[[b,a],[c,d]]. I wonder if it means something, if there is any connection

    • @someguy3335
      @someguy3335 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The determinant of a 2x2 Matrix is the Area defined by its row-/columnvectors. Maybe u can start from there. I don't really see a connection here at first glance though

    • @uncreatedlogos
      @uncreatedlogos 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah someone really needs to do the work for that. The outcome is gonna be rewarding and illuminating af.

    • @anonymous_4276
      @anonymous_4276 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@uncreatedlogos it may also merely be a coincidence.

  • @Kapomafioso
    @Kapomafioso 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Picture at 6:01 should've come first I guess, to first get an intuitive picture of what is supposed to happen. It's funny how different physicists' and mathematicians' intuition works. A physicist would look at an expression like that, draw a picture and be like "ah, so this should be equal to...(difference of areas)", whereas a mathematician starts with something seemingly random, shuffles it around and magically shakes out the result. When I took calculus classes with proofs I always had to remember these weird starting points of all proofs - I knew the result would eventually follow after a few steps are worked out, but the beginning is totally unintuitive. I still appreciate the rigour in your videos though! Very refreshing to see assumptions and properly proven implications, rather than "everything is a "nicely behaved" function in physics" (a.k.a. it has "all properties you could ever want or need" (even if it doesn't really)) lol.

  • @arghyashit6169
    @arghyashit6169 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    thank you. sir.

  • @robertocamporesi3331
    @robertocamporesi3331 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very nice video! Again in theme of function- inverse function, a great video could be made on the following nice Problem: find out the number of solutions of the equation a^x=log_a(x) as a>1.

  • @sinecurve9999
    @sinecurve9999 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That's a handy result. Let's apply it!
    What is the integral of the cube root of x from 1 to 8?
    What is the integral of the inverse sine of x from 1/2 to sqrt(3)/2?
    Look, ma! No integral tables!

  • @gabrielgrozinski4045
    @gabrielgrozinski4045 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    please take a look at question 5 of the 1997 international math Olympiad

  • @Eric-dt7bt
    @Eric-dt7bt 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I remember I did one of the STEP papers and I was required to prove this identity using graph lol or at least something very similar to this one

  • @foobar2146
    @foobar2146 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    i like the proof without words. But we still need a good place to stop :(

  • @iamsherlocked84
    @iamsherlocked84 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hehe for the very first time, I found the answer right away when I read that f was differentiable 😅
    Can't wait to see your next video

  • @shanmugasundaram9688
    @shanmugasundaram9688 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Geometrical proof is more illuminating than analytic.

  • @ihsan9261
    @ihsan9261 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great Sir

  • @nitayderei
    @nitayderei 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Reminds me of determinant somehow...
    Maybe there is a clearer connection in multiple variables.

  • @anggalol
    @anggalol 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I remember this problem in Purcell's book

  • @awindwaker4130
    @awindwaker4130 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    what a delightful result

  • @fabioa.1525
    @fabioa.1525 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I've a question if the function is differentiable it's monotonous. But we assumpt that f(a) = c and f(b) = d, and that means that we assumpted the function is monotonus crescent, don't we have to consider also the case in which the function is monotonous decrescent? Thank you for the answer
    Sorry for my bad english but I'm foreign😅

    • @sundeep0207
      @sundeep0207 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, that case hadn't been handled.
      In that case, the identity has to have a plus sign instead of a minus sign... Or c and d reversed

    • @fabioa.1525
      @fabioa.1525 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sundeep0207 Thank you!

  • @nicepajuju3900
    @nicepajuju3900 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow that was awesome!!

  • @dsacton
    @dsacton 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Michael, when you wrote down the first step, I thought "I bet he's going to integrate by parts." But then I found myself wondering if anyone has ever used an analogous integration technique based on the quotient rule. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

  • @henrymarkson3758
    @henrymarkson3758 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Above all, Michael Penn knows how to communicate Maths.

  • @jabunapg1387
    @jabunapg1387 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That ending was nice

  • @shahinjahanlu2199
    @shahinjahanlu2199 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Beautiful

  • @hamzatox
    @hamzatox 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome no words proof. What about the divergence of sum_{n>0}\dfrac1{n^{2+\cosθ}}

  • @AtariDays80
    @AtariDays80 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Without "and this is a good place to stop" I thought the video cut out on me.

  • @phee4174
    @phee4174 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    err, does anyone know what the music at the end was?

    • @MichaelPennMath
      @MichaelPennMath  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It was some clip included in Final Cut Pro X

    • @phee4174
      @phee4174 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Anant Mishra Thank you.

  • @gustavopriftis9290
    @gustavopriftis9290 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Pretty good ending proof...

  • @benjamingross3384
    @benjamingross3384 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I like the punchline.

  • @seanclough7810
    @seanclough7810 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    here's a proof [blink] ... what proof (I like the geometric proof of pyth. theorem ... the last bit was great, and I did almost miss it)

  • @Maurice-Navel
    @Maurice-Navel 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bravo!

  • @hcgreier6037
    @hcgreier6037 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    04:51 dx'es flying through this room!! 🤣

  • @robshaw2639
    @robshaw2639 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    What if f’(x) is 0 at some x in the domain on the first step?

  • @MrRyanroberson1
    @MrRyanroberson1 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Actually... isn't this a proof for integration by parts? Is there any way you could avoid using ibp during this derivation?

  • @afonsobarra582
    @afonsobarra582 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I guess that there's something different today, but what?

  • @kimchikoalaa714
    @kimchikoalaa714 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    i prefer the graphical method. draw an arbitrary line and shade the respective area the integrals represent

  • @perappelgren948
    @perappelgren948 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    How can we know that is a good place to stop?

  • @egillandersson1780
    @egillandersson1780 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I see it again and again, because I don't see the good place to stop 🤣

  • @bluxer4225
    @bluxer4225 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    stylish

  • @sephimarzliclican6224
    @sephimarzliclican6224 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    NOOOOOOO where (or when) is the good place to stop?!?!???

  • @user-A168
    @user-A168 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    good

  • @mcqueen424
    @mcqueen424 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why does f(a) necessarily equal c?

    • @santiagoferreyra5573
      @santiagoferreyra5573 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Because it is biyective in [a,b]->[c,d]

    • @jacemandt
      @jacemandt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Since he assumes the function is monotonically increasing, the smallest number in the domain must map to the smallest number in the range.

  • @PhilFogle
    @PhilFogle 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    thank you :))

  • @profesordanielalvarez3498
    @profesordanielalvarez3498 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    ¡ BEAUTIFUL !

  • @mokouf3
    @mokouf3 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can graphing this alone prove the equation?

  • @Blafasel3
    @Blafasel3 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm just wondering, if the result is only true for an increasing function? I did not check, but the substituion with the integral bouds f(a) = c and f(b) = d is only correct if its a monotone increasing function, if its decreasing it would be f(a) = d and f(b) ) c instead, would it not? (it would just change the sign of the one integrand, but still... )?

    • @demenion3521
      @demenion3521 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      replacing f by -f gives you a decreasing function as he said in the video. and then you can simply rename the variables -c and -d to c and d.

    • @foobar2146
      @foobar2146 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      If f(x) is decreasing, then -f(x) is increasing. and you can swap sign of and integral by swapping the boundaries.

    • @tomtheultimatepro
      @tomtheultimatepro 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Using the graphical solution presented at the end, it is easy to see that the result does not hold for stricly decreasing functions. Here is a counterexample: Take f(x) = 1 - sqrt(1 - (x - 1)²) (decreasing quarter circle with radius 1) with a = 0,b = 1, c = 0, d = 1. The sum of the two integrals is just 2*(1 - 0,25*pi) = 2 - 0,5pi = ~0.4 =/= bd - ac = 1.

    • @rafakrecichwost3666
      @rafakrecichwost3666 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@tomtheultimatepro The graphical solution is ok, but we need to be careful with the values of c and d. In this video we have c=f(a), d=f(b), and we add some areas. In the case of a decreasing function we have c=f(b), d=f(a), and we subtract some areas. We get (integral of f(x)dx from a to b) - (b-a)*f(b) = (integral of f^-1(y)dy from f(b) to f(a)) - (f(a)-f(b))*a, and then (integral of f(x)dx from a to b) + (integral of f^-1(y)dy from f(a) to f(b)) = b*f(b) - a*f(a). This is the same equation as in the video (if we write f(a) and f(b) instead of c and d, respectively).

  • @CM63_France
    @CM63_France 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi,
    And without any good place to stop.

  • @djvalentedochp
    @djvalentedochp 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    surprising ending 👍

  • @MathElite
    @MathElite 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow that is so cool

  • @prathmeshraut1616
    @prathmeshraut1616 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice sir

  • @dyer308
    @dyer308 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    So this wasn't a good place to stop 🤔

  • @josephmartos
    @josephmartos 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hahahhahaha very fun video! Great Job

  • @hopelessdove
    @hopelessdove 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    but... but... where's the good place to stop?

  • @Mryeo5354
    @Mryeo5354 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yo that's cool

  • @cernejr
    @cernejr 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hehe, when Michael gets tired of math he can work as a pantomime actor.

  • @Mohamed.Soltan1991
    @Mohamed.Soltan1991 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great 💖💖💖

  • @matthewvardis3444
    @matthewvardis3444 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes!!! Thank you sexy man!

  • @PlutoTheSecond
    @PlutoTheSecond 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    ___ ______ _ ____ _____ __ ____

  • @pokoknyaakuimut001
    @pokoknyaakuimut001 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    😍😍😍

  • @UneFenetreSurLeMonde
    @UneFenetreSurLeMonde 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ur accent is too sophisticated

  • @Kindiakan
    @Kindiakan 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    But where’s a good place to stop?