If you listen to the Audio without watching you wouldn't know which of the 2 units are playing, so I guess the extra money is for the Spring reverb unit on the Grey. Great demonstration my mate, thanks for taking the time to do it.
thanks for the comparisons ! I hear a clear difference in some sections. But this doesn't mean one is better than the other. Both have their advantages, none seem to really have any 'weakness' :P
Agree the LEDs are helpful, certainly. I didn't like the RGB look though, and went for the Grey. Hopefully the learning curve isn't too much worse as a result :) (I found a deal where the price was basically the same, otherwise I'd have got the dark orange one. I prefer the black and orange visually anyway, except for the LEDs.
I went for the black and orange too, for the visual standpoint (my eyes aren't that great) and the reverb. I prefer the digital reverb over the spring reverb after hearing comparisons.
Definitely subtle differences. I've noticed them on other videos comparing the blue and standard black and orange, but I honestly wonder if it's just variation between units that might be found between two different black units as well
From my experience the difference between two of the same vintage synths is usually really small if you set the parameters carefully. so i think that two of the same 2600 models will sound more or less identical. The resonance behavior is a bit different between the standard and the gray, that’s the most obvious difference but overall it’s not night and day.
I can speak on this as I ordered two MS-101's and they sounded different. I had the black and blue model and the black was way better sounding. Same with the RD-8. I had to replace the first and the second model I got was night and day. So it definitely is a thing with Behringer.
It’s possible that Behringer gradually tweaks the quality after they are released. It points to an interest in manufacturing quality instruments. It’s quite possible that they release the instruments when they are ‘finished,’ but still the engineers tweak them to make them sound better as they make different production runs. My advice is to not buy any product immediately (Behringer, Apple, etc). I always leave cutting edge technology for a year or so. I have a couple of friends who always buy ‘bleeding edge’ and they often have problems and need to have service.
Can't wait to get mine....so excited with all these great videos coming out. Even with the extra cost you still can't get something this great for the money.
Thanks t.noise. Apart from the Gray Meanie sounding a little nicer, I'd not noticed till this video, how aesthetically pleasing the 2600 Gray Meanie would look in a rack with 9U of 84HP Boland System 100 modules.
The difference I notice is that the African Grey Parrot has a bit more of maturity in behaviour of the resonance, whereas the orange seems a bit basic there
I wanted to find out what the filter differences are between a 2600 standard Black/Orange version and the special editions of the Gray Meanie and Blue Marvin. Because the filter is where Behringer claims to have used selected components, compared to the standard. Timeline: 0:00 - Unboxing and first look 2:00 - First launch and setup 5:06 - Test Setup Explanation 6:30 - Spectrum Analysis of Filters 8:30 - Audio Comparison 13:30 - Outro Audio Examples of the Spring Reverb: soundcloud.com/noiseprofessor... soundcloud.com/noiseprofessor...
@@davelordy It’s just a historical detail. I wouldn’t use it for mixing anyway. But it’s fun to patch it back for feedback, use a delay in series and so on. And you can just use a mono output. The signal path is mono anyway
@@tomnoise23 Yeah, I suppose you can always just use an external reverb, it's a shame though because the stereo reverb sounds really nice to me - would have been nice to be able to use it in a mix.
This was fascinating and very informative, and gives one the confidence to make a good decision based on science rather than the color and other differences. Judging from the audio signal on the Gray Meanie, the 4012 filter shows up on the scope as being different from the black and orange version, where in all the examples the 4072 filters looks identical on both versions. Listening to the audio by itself makes it more difficult to hear the difference, but it's there, and the Gray Meanie wins. But is it $100 difference? not sure, both are winners. The Gray Meanie may win as a collectors item since it's supposedly a limited run. Thank you, this was no boring at all, informative as well as helpful in making a decision on which version.
Recently purchased the black & orange. Yet, your examples did show minor differences. I had heard that some of the internal parts are also different. I may have to buy the Grey Meanie or blue. Thank you.
Ordered mine in January. Was told I'd get it in March. At the beginning of March, Sweetwater informed me that I now have to wait until June. And you have 2. I guess I need to start a review channel.
Sorry to hear that. But i have no relationship to Behringer or Thomann. I am located in Germany, ordered both very early when they were announced in October and was lucky to be under the first who got one. And this is not a review channel .
Thanks for doing this comparison. :) I wouldn't feel bad if I'd bought the regular version, the main reason I didn't is because I wanted single colour LEDs. :) I saw another video where someone took them both apart, he referenced this one. In his video you can see the Grey version has larger through-hole capacitors for the filter caps.
Thanks for doing this comparison! I *hear* no difference, but it's interesting that your standard unit has a measured lower harmonic distortion than your Gray Meanie! FWIW spectrum analysis of my standard 2600's 4012 looks like your Gray Meanie. I don't have a way to share a screenshot without hitting the spam filter. So yeah, looks like it's down to differences between individual units, not necessarily the type. Looks like you got lucky with your original :).
Hello Luna. Thanks for your comment. That`s interesting that your 2600 "looks" the same. Yes, i think that the calibration from the factory could be different as well.
Thank you for zooming in so we can see what the connection points++ are called. So annoying when I see other tutorials where they just show "connect orange blob to orange blob" and the resolution is too low to read what they actually are
To me, the original sounds a bit "cleaner", the gray "dirtier". To each their own, but I like the dirt. Got mine today as well, really happy with it, though not too fond of the reverb, but then I'm no spring reverb fan so no surprise...
i have gray too, this is general, not aimed at you but what amazes me is how much hype now surrounds a synth with a spring - was the same with GM, i know this is the flavour of now but it makes me laugh as i am sure some out here expected some sort of miracle and they build it ion their heads as some game changer - it is a damn spring and it isn't even a large one, some love em, some don't. people everywhere who have never had a spring before are now experts on springs it seems :-o
@@ogasi1798 Yep. So I have a Vermona DSR-3 in my rack - a robust high end stereo spring pair with tweaking controls. Amazing depth and richness can be achieved with it. But these little springs being added to synths just sound like playing audio through an old mattress. lol
@@ogasi1798 & some of us have been using spring for decades by choice without knowing that it would cause harm to a pile self serious false egos or that it could ever even be possible for preference to be a debate. But 99.9 percent of you don't make real music anyway just in belief that buying something & making noise with it puts you in the club. Teh agenda-governed ninernet has for sure taken its toll on "humanity"
@@frankyblancke6338 I am using Izotope Insight Pro for the most part. But there is also a big range of free VSTs for this purpose: hiphopmakers.com/best-free-spectrum-analyzer-vst-plugins
Will have to listen with headphones... But as of now I hear the grey meanie with a little bit more "mud" compared to the original, which has a cleaner sound, with higher spectrum (for my taste slightly "too clean", meaning, I miss the subtle lower non-linearities of the grey Minniei, which, again, are minimal...) ...My two "cents"... Thanks so much for this... God bless you all!!
Subtle differences but only around the order you would expect between two instances of the same design. I wonder if the component changes make a difference to the stability and reliability
Thank you for the comparison. I am listening to this on studio monitors and the differences are somewhat noticeable in some of the examples. The gray version has a slightly richer tone in the lows and the filter is ever so slightly sweeter on the top end. Minute differences, I guess you could say that the orange and black version is a bit cleaner sounding, but is that what you would be after when getting a 2600?...
Very slight differences in sound, but I would be very happy to use either. As someone said earlier, I doubt you could tell the difference just by listening! I have the original 'Xmas tree' 2600 and on my studio monitors it sounds fantastic and integrates really well with my Eurorack system (I never use it's reverb because it's rubbish) I can't stand spring reverb unless it's for a one-off effect so that wouldn't persuade me to get a Blue or Grey 2600, but I like the look of the grey meanie! Thanks for doing this comparison, because it confirms for me that you would not be able to tell the difference in a full track.
Also the reverb on the Grey 2600 is pretty much unusable in a studio / recording situation as the stereo effect is derived from putting one side 180° out of phase - the result is that it's not mono compatible . . . and I don't mean you just lose a little of the sound, the reverb (and the big lush soundscape it creates) completely disappears in mono.
Hugely recommend the Light Pedal, it’s a new type of spring reverb using optical sensors to capture the harmonics down the whole length of the spring that would be lost in a traditional spring reverb. The resulting sound is very rich and lush and harmonic. And it has an envelope follower on it as well, which means you can use it for texture in the background of sounds rather than as just a cloud over everything. You can also set it to feedback, sending its own overtones back in to the spring. I would advise anyone who think they dislike spring reverb to try the light pedal to be certain. There is a lot of terrible spring reverb out there. Light pedal is the best i’ve ever heard.
Have had the B/O for some time now, and just heard from SWS that the Grey Meanie I was on the wait list for was now available. I told my sales rep to let it go to the next person, I am perfectly happy with the B/O and don't feel there is a significant difference. If I really wanted to get as close as possible to an original ARP 2600, I would probably go for an Antonus 2600.
Certainly a difference and it's audible! But I wonder if just the varience you get between any two purely analog filters OR if the new special versions have components that make the Gray Meanie's filters better. I am waiting for these become available here in the US (no US dealers have been sent stock yet ). I hope to have my 2600 soon. I also have a Blue Marvin coming later. So I guess I can check with mine... if they arrive at the US shores someday.
They definitely use better capacitors in the grey/blue. It was implemented by the designer AMSynths. There’s a video showing the circuit boards of a B/O and a Grey. The difference is not imaginary. The Grey/blue has a fatter low-end. The AMSynths guy makes an additional mod recommendation of an even-better quality capacitor you can replace yourself, if you want your grey or blue to really sound like an original 2600. (Personally i would never open up my instrument for so little a difference in sound quality, i’m happy with the blue.)
oh just like comparing blackwood to whitewood fingerboard on guitar!!. the grey one tends to sound older capacitors, mellow. i found the high frequency on sh101 and odeyssey a bit harshy. i mean the high is not together with other .
The difference in sound is not that noticeable to make most people choose one over the other. The choice would be more aesthetics [IMO]. I'm very happy with my Christmas tree... Besides, when mixed in with other sonic textures from other instruments and running through an external reverb [eliminate the "spring" reverb altogether] nobody on earth will ever be able to tell the difference anyway.
To be fair, I can't really hear any difference. I've got to the Standard one and the "Gray meanie" and I tried all the day both units and I can't hear any difference. There is a difference in the filter section, the gray meanie/blue marvin are using bigger yellow capacitors instead of the little surface mounted of the "standard 2600". But it seems this has very few or no effect on the sound. The reverb is then the most noticeable change. Giving the price of a spring reverb (eurorack module for example), the Gray Meanie/Blue Marvin are a bargain, else the "standard" 2600 is the best for sound quality / price ratio. I love the "standard" and I'm very happy with the Gray Meanie. having two 2600 like Zawinul is really cool (just have to practice a bit more to also play like Zawinul :-) ).
Just to add an important point : since the reverb is the most noticeable change, you have to know that the Standard 2600 have a Stereo digital reverb and the Gray Meanie/Blue Marvin has a Mono spring reverb. As the difference is not really big, the Standard 2600 have a better sound since the reverb is spatialized. (The V1000 chip in the Standard 2600 can also be programmed as a flanger and many other effects, they are DIY mods you can find on the web...).
@@tomnoise23 No, the Standard B2600 is using a Coolaudio V1000 multi FX chip that is natively stereo. No phase reversed nowhere (because phase reversed = phase cancellation = no sound, not false stereo...)
@@KNHSynths please try it for yourself. The 2600 is using just a mono signal from that chip. The cancellation when listening in mono is the same on all units (use L/R outputs at the same level and if you switch to mono the reverb will be gone).
@@tomnoise23 Ok I apologize you were right. I tested with my double track scope and the signal of the reverb itself is mono. To create the stereo effect this signal is really inverted and mix back to the original sound of the 2600. This is an horrible design choice, I can't understand how this decision was taken. When mixed in mono the reverb is cancelling itself. So the instrument must be used only using the Left of the Right output. Else as I do, don't use internal fx and use a bigsky, timeline, blackhole or anything that can really work in stereo (even a reals mono spring reverb like the doepfer A-199 is a better choice, that's what I'm using for metallic sounds).
Nicely Done Well thought out Set Up & Patches sound great, have alot goin on Interesting Spectral comparisons Grey sounds slightly richer with just earbuds... will try thru studio monitors tomorrow... Thanx T
It sounds like the Gray Meanie has a little more ... umph. LOL Not sure how to say it but maybe had a little wider lower end? To me the gray meanie had a slightly better sound. And thank you very much for doing this! It's not boring to me.
thanks for the great video ...i am no expert but i think the grey is slightly more mellow not as bright on a few of your examples great for my style of old electronic effects etc also i i like clanky noise ridden reverbs ... i will be putting my blue 2600 through old tape machines and mine have lots of dirt and noise is i am happy sp far with what i have heard about the blue/grey 2600 ...great video easy to understand for us non pro producers and pro musicians thanks btw how limited are these blue/grey versions
do not forget the digital reverb is stereo, the spring reverb is mono, then the "raw" sound with reverb from a standard 2600 is more pleasant. If you plan to use external fx it does not matter, then why spending $100 for a spring reverb you will not use in the gray meanie ? That's the question ! (I have both and love both and I have a big eurorack with fx, for someone not as well equiped, the standard 2600 will have a better sound out of the box).
Interesting difference in the sound of the resonance. I did not expect it. You did a good job highlighting it. I thought the only difference would be the reverb, since Behringer’s descriptions of these is super vague. I wonder whether there is a difference between Grey and Blue as well.
Thanks for the video Tom! I'm curious to know what your mixer levels look like, particularly in the 2 and 3 VCO examples. To my ears (but very limited 2600 experience), the ARP seems to have more of a growl with these types of sounds, particularly in the bass realm. So I wonder if you're driving the mixer (and filter) as hard as you can.
Yes, mixer levels where at 100%. But my old ARP was not much different with that, as far as I can remember. Unfortunately I can’t compare anymore. As soon as you use resonance, the level drops
I can hear a very slight difference in fatness/roundness of tone with the grey one. I closed my eyes and did random seeks in the video and always knew which was which. A lot of what people perceive as enjoyable analog sound is due to nonlinearity and harmonic distortion. It’s certainly not night and day, they do sound quite close, but the original seems more precise, almost more like a good digital emulation, whereas the grey seems to have just a slight slight bit more ‘fur’ in the tone for those analog freaks. In a mix you probably wouldn’t hear the difference. I like the color blue and the normal white lights, so i bought the blue one 😂 scientific reason. Haha
Glad to see both sound great, but you are getting more then just a different color plate for your $100 bucks. At this rate, I’m still waiting for them come in stock in the US. At this rate, I’ll take what ever 2600 I can get my hands on. They say the blue/grey are limited edition, yet their standard already seems to be in limited supply.
Hi - Great to see comparisons like this as Behringer don't tell you what the differences are! The Grey has a slightly different filter as it has additional/different components but, let's be honest, the difference is not going to be a massive contributing factor when you start patching. The 'biggie' is the spring reverb but it's hard to see how they can justify another £100 just for that. I have a Moog Grandmother with a spring reverb and they sound, er, springy :-) Also, everyone knows the ARP 2600 is brown and orange! :-)
These differences are measurable but you don't hear them at all. The Special edition 2600 use through hole capacitors, that's the main difference for the filters. The difference between the two types of filters is only audible if you drive them to the extremes and then it's mostly a difference in brightness. I have the Gray Meanie but I actually like the black and orange look better. Only the reverb in the original is digital and I hear from others that it is noisy too.
Nothing I can hear outstanding between the two. Variations in factory calibration. How long did they both warm up? When I get my stuff set back up I'm going to compare my 2600 to my CAT since it's probably going to be the most similar sounding. I do have a short demo on my channel of the CAT and Pro-1 set up to sound the same and hard panned R and L.
i bought a grey mean, bstock, when i got it it had the xmas tree lights, so9me jerk swapped the face plate of a black version. returning it for a new blue... Shady people suck..
People who have used headphones and/or a decent sound system and who cannot hear the difference definitely have a hearing issue that must be adressed if professionals, sorry ! (I personaly hear a more beefy, thicker low end on the Gray Meanie, as well as tiny bit more harmonic content in the mids). Big up and many thx to t.noise, I was about to get the x-mass tree... and I'm happily in the waiting list for a GM.
@@henrikgerlach4765 probably depends how we describe ‘bite’ in audio terms. The meanie could be a tad beefier, but the standard will cut through the mix better. The good news is if you have the standard you can add your own select capacitors, as the holes are present in the pcb.
Some people seem to hear colours of a chassis 🤣🤣🤣! So the Blue sounds brighter than the grey or the Orange is dirty??? 😉Close your eyes and hear the truth! I didn't hear a difference. But you did?
Honestly they sound the same, think the 2600 is a little smoother but that probably comes down to minute differences in the unit and knob placements so whatever
I have here the 2600 black ( metal dark grey ) and orange and the Odyssey and i need to say i love more my Odyssey . There is a magic in the duophonic i can't find on the 2600 . It feels lifeless .
Once again from the reviews seen I'm going for the Blue/Grey. Thanks for the demo!
If you listen to the Audio without watching you wouldn't know which of the 2 units are playing, so I guess the extra money is for the Spring reverb unit on the Grey.
Great demonstration my mate, thanks for taking the time to do it.
thanks for the comparisons ! I hear a clear difference in some sections. But this doesn't mean one is better than the other.
Both have their advantages, none seem to really have any 'weakness' :P
Since I can‘t compare I‘m highly satiesfied with my black & orange one. I also find its different LED colours very helpful.
Agree the LEDs are helpful, certainly. I didn't like the RGB look though, and went for the Grey. Hopefully the learning curve isn't too much worse as a result :) (I found a deal where the price was basically the same, otherwise I'd have got the dark orange one. I prefer the black and orange visually anyway, except for the LEDs.
look like christmas tree light - not my cup of tea
I went for the black and orange too, for the visual standpoint (my eyes aren't that great) and the reverb. I prefer the digital reverb over the spring reverb after hearing comparisons.
Definitely subtle differences. I've noticed them on other videos comparing the blue and standard black and orange, but I honestly wonder if it's just variation between units that might be found between two different black units as well
From my experience the difference between two of the same vintage synths is usually really small if you set the parameters carefully. so i think that two of the same 2600 models will sound more or less identical. The resonance behavior is a bit different between the standard and the gray, that’s the most obvious difference but overall it’s not night and day.
I can speak on this as I ordered two MS-101's and they sounded different. I had the black and blue model and the black was way better sounding. Same with the RD-8. I had to replace the first and the second model I got was night and day. So it definitely is a thing with Behringer.
It’s possible that Behringer gradually tweaks the quality after they are released. It points to an interest in manufacturing quality instruments. It’s quite possible that they release the instruments when they are ‘finished,’ but still the engineers tweak them to make them sound better as they make different production runs. My advice is to not buy any product immediately (Behringer, Apple, etc). I always leave cutting edge technology for a year or so. I have a couple of friends who always buy ‘bleeding edge’ and they often have problems and need to have service.
Can't wait to get mine....so excited with all these great videos coming out. Even with the extra cost you still can't get something this great for the money.
Thanks t.noise. Apart from the Gray Meanie sounding a little nicer, I'd not noticed till this video, how aesthetically pleasing the 2600 Gray Meanie would look in a rack with 9U of 84HP Boland System 100 modules.
Very cool of you to do this. ❤️
The difference I notice is that the African Grey Parrot has a bit more of maturity in behaviour of the resonance, whereas the orange seems a bit basic there
that's nicely said... and I can't agree more.
The gray one's tone generation is a bit less clicky too, which is really nice.
I wanted to find out what the filter differences are between a 2600 standard Black/Orange version and the special editions of the Gray Meanie and Blue Marvin. Because the filter is where Behringer claims to have used selected components, compared to the standard.
Timeline:
0:00 - Unboxing and first look
2:00 - First launch and setup
5:06 - Test Setup Explanation
6:30 - Spectrum Analysis of Filters
8:30 - Audio Comparison
13:30 - Outro
Audio Examples of the Spring Reverb:
soundcloud.com/noiseprofessor...
soundcloud.com/noiseprofessor...
The reverb is 180° out of phase . . . sounds really nice, but you can't really use it in a recording /studio environment.
@@davelordy It’s just a historical detail. I wouldn’t use it for mixing anyway. But it’s fun to patch it back for feedback, use a delay in series and so on. And you can just use a mono output. The signal path is mono anyway
@@tomnoise23 Yeah, I suppose you can always just use an external reverb, it's a shame though because the stereo reverb sounds really nice to me - would have been nice to be able to use it in a mix.
This was fascinating and very informative, and gives one the confidence to make a good decision based on science rather than the color and other differences.
Judging from the audio signal on the Gray Meanie, the 4012 filter shows up on the scope as being different from the black and orange version, where in all the examples the 4072 filters looks identical on both versions.
Listening to the audio by itself makes it more difficult to hear the difference, but it's there, and the Gray Meanie wins.
But is it $100 difference? not sure, both are winners.
The Gray Meanie may win as a collectors item since it's supposedly a limited run.
Thank you, this was no boring at all, informative as well as helpful in making a decision on which version.
Recently purchased the black & orange. Yet, your examples did show minor differences. I had heard that some of the internal parts are also different. I may have to buy the Grey Meanie or blue. Thank you.
A very good comparison. I thought the Gray Meanie sounded better. Slightly bigger and more "open"
Thanks please do more, gray meanie sounded a little stronger in the low end imho
Ordered mine in January. Was told I'd get it in March. At the beginning of March, Sweetwater informed me that I now have to wait until June. And you have 2. I guess I need to start a review channel.
Sorry to hear that. But i have no relationship to Behringer or Thomann. I am located in Germany, ordered both very early when they were announced in October and was lucky to be under the first who got one. And this is not a review channel .
Thanks for doing this comparison. :) I wouldn't feel bad if I'd bought the regular version, the main reason I didn't is because I wanted single colour LEDs. :) I saw another video where someone took them both apart, he referenced this one. In his video you can see the Grey version has larger through-hole capacitors for the filter caps.
Thanks for doing this comparison! I *hear* no difference, but it's interesting that your standard unit has a measured lower harmonic distortion than your Gray Meanie!
FWIW spectrum analysis of my standard 2600's 4012 looks like your Gray Meanie. I don't have a way to share a screenshot without hitting the spam filter.
So yeah, looks like it's down to differences between individual units, not necessarily the type. Looks like you got lucky with your original :).
Hello Luna. Thanks for your comment. That`s interesting that your 2600 "looks" the same. Yes, i think that the calibration from the factory could be different as well.
Thank you for zooming in so we can see what the connection points++ are called. So annoying when I see other tutorials where they just show "connect orange blob to orange blob" and the resolution is too low to read what they actually are
To me, the original sounds a bit "cleaner", the gray "dirtier". To each their own, but I like the dirt. Got mine today as well, really happy with it, though not too fond of the reverb, but then I'm no spring reverb fan so no surprise...
i have gray too, this is general, not aimed at you but what amazes me is how much hype now surrounds a synth with a spring - was the same with GM, i know this is the flavour of now but it makes me laugh as i am sure some out here expected some sort of miracle and they build it ion their heads as some game changer - it is a damn spring and it isn't even a large one, some love em, some don't. people everywhere who have never had a spring before are now experts on springs it seems :-o
@@ogasi1798 Yep. So I have a Vermona DSR-3 in my rack - a robust high end stereo spring pair with tweaking controls. Amazing depth and richness can be achieved with it. But these little springs being added to synths just sound like playing audio through an old mattress. lol
@@ogasi1798 & some of us have been using spring for decades by choice without knowing that it would cause harm to a pile self serious false egos or that it could ever even be possible for preference to be a debate. But 99.9 percent of you don't make real music anyway just in belief that buying something & making noise with it puts you in the club. Teh agenda-governed ninernet has for sure taken its toll on "humanity"
Great video's of the behringer. What spectrum analyser are you using in the video's? thanks
Thanks! For this video i had used the VPS Scope, an older plugin. But it was on my old mac, on the new M1 it doesn't work anymore.
Do you use at the moment a spectrum analyser? I work with windows
@@frankyblancke6338 I am using Izotope Insight Pro for the most part. But there is also a big range of free VSTs for this purpose: hiphopmakers.com/best-free-spectrum-analyzer-vst-plugins
Thanks
I want the multi-colored lights..
Will have to listen with headphones... But as of now I hear the grey meanie with a little bit more "mud" compared to the original, which has a cleaner sound, with higher spectrum (for my taste slightly "too clean", meaning, I miss the subtle lower non-linearities of the grey Minniei, which, again, are minimal...) ...My two "cents"... Thanks so much for this... God bless you all!!
Yes I have a grey meanie at home and I must say it’s easily pretty muddy. But I think it’s often the case with the OG 2600 too
Which I love!!!
Subtle differences but only around the order you would expect between two instances of the same design. I wonder if the component changes make a difference to the stability and reliability
Thank you for the comparison. I am listening to this on studio monitors and the differences are somewhat noticeable in some of the examples. The gray version has a slightly richer tone in the lows and the filter is ever so slightly sweeter on the top end. Minute differences, I guess you could say that the orange and black version is a bit cleaner sounding, but is that what you would be after when getting a 2600?...
Very slight differences in sound, but I would be very happy to use either. As someone said earlier, I doubt you could tell the difference just by listening! I have the original 'Xmas tree' 2600 and on my studio monitors it sounds fantastic and integrates really well with my Eurorack system (I never use it's reverb because it's rubbish) I can't stand spring reverb unless it's for a one-off effect so that wouldn't persuade me to get a Blue or Grey 2600, but I like the look of the grey meanie! Thanks for doing this comparison, because it confirms for me that you would not be able to tell the difference in a full track.
Also the reverb on the Grey 2600 is pretty much unusable in a studio / recording situation as the stereo effect is derived from putting one side 180° out of phase - the result is that it's not mono compatible . . . and I don't mean you just lose a little of the sound, the reverb (and the big lush soundscape it creates) completely disappears in mono.
Hugely recommend the Light Pedal, it’s a new type of spring reverb using optical sensors to capture the harmonics down the whole length of the spring that would be lost in a traditional spring reverb. The resulting sound is very rich and lush and harmonic. And it has an envelope follower on it as well, which means you can use it for texture in the background of sounds rather than as just a cloud over everything. You can also set it to feedback, sending its own overtones back in to the spring. I would advise anyone who think they dislike spring reverb to try the light pedal to be certain. There is a lot of terrible spring reverb out there. Light pedal is the best i’ve ever heard.
Gray Meanie from Thomann??
Have had the B/O for some time now, and just heard from SWS that the Grey Meanie I was on the wait list for was now available. I told my sales rep to let it go to the next person, I am perfectly happy with the B/O and don't feel there is a significant difference. If I really wanted to get as close as possible to an original ARP 2600, I would probably go for an Antonus 2600.
Certainly a difference and it's audible! But I wonder if just the varience you get between any two purely analog filters OR if the new special versions have components that make the Gray Meanie's filters better. I am waiting for these become available here in the US (no US dealers have been sent stock yet ). I hope to have my 2600 soon. I also have a Blue Marvin coming later. So I guess I can check with mine... if they arrive at the US shores someday.
They definitely use better capacitors in the grey/blue. It was implemented by the designer AMSynths. There’s a video showing the circuit boards of a B/O and a Grey. The difference is not imaginary. The Grey/blue has a fatter low-end. The AMSynths guy makes an additional mod recommendation of an even-better quality capacitor you can replace yourself, if you want your grey or blue to really sound like an original 2600. (Personally i would never open up my instrument for so little a difference in sound quality, i’m happy with the blue.)
I hear the Grey Meanie has very very very subtlety more low end volume and definition. It takes weapons grade hearing to hear
Precision! Nice! Put it this way.. super glad I chose the Gray Meanie! Great comparison ❤
I wish they did the sonic features of the Gray or the Blue but with the basic look and the multicoloured LEDs.
Who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if there would be some "Special Edition" of the normal one in the future.
Subtle difference but for my money I'll go for the Gray Meanie. I like the way its filter sounds at higher resonance.
Don't have any ARP2600 but I'm amazed at the "Filter FM by VCO2". What was the technique?
Basically it’s the sound of Oscillators trough a resonant Low Pass Filter. The filter frequency is modulated by an envelope and a VCO.
oh just like comparing blackwood to whitewood fingerboard on guitar!!. the grey one tends to sound older capacitors, mellow. i found the high frequency on sh101 and odeyssey a bit harshy. i mean the high is not together with other .
"Blackmetal to Graymetal" :)
They both sound similar. I just received my original 2600 a couple days ago and I’m liking it a lot. Price-wise and aesthetically I like the original.
The difference in sound is not that noticeable to make most people choose one over the other. The choice would be more aesthetics [IMO]. I'm very happy with my Christmas tree... Besides, when mixed in with other sonic textures from other instruments and running through an external reverb [eliminate the "spring" reverb altogether] nobody on earth will ever be able to tell the difference anyway.
To be fair, I can't really hear any difference. I've got to the Standard one and the "Gray meanie" and I tried all the day both units and I can't hear any difference.
There is a difference in the filter section, the gray meanie/blue marvin are using bigger yellow capacitors instead of the little surface mounted of the "standard 2600". But it seems this has very few or no effect on the sound. The reverb is then the most noticeable change. Giving the price of a spring reverb (eurorack module for example), the Gray Meanie/Blue Marvin are a bargain, else the "standard" 2600 is the best for sound quality / price ratio. I love the "standard" and I'm very happy with the Gray Meanie. having two 2600 like Zawinul is really cool (just have to practice a bit more to also play like Zawinul :-) ).
Just to add an important point : since the reverb is the most noticeable change, you have to know that the Standard 2600 have a Stereo digital reverb and the Gray Meanie/Blue Marvin has a Mono spring reverb. As the difference is not really big, the Standard 2600 have a better sound since the reverb is spatialized. (The V1000 chip in the Standard 2600 can also be programmed as a flanger and many other effects, they are DIY mods you can find on the web...).
No, the Reverb is mono with one side being phase reversed to the outputs on all versions.
@@tomnoise23 No, the Standard B2600 is using a Coolaudio V1000 multi FX chip that is natively stereo. No phase reversed nowhere (because phase reversed = phase cancellation = no sound, not false stereo...)
@@KNHSynths please try it for yourself. The 2600 is using just a mono signal from that chip. The cancellation when listening in mono is the same on all units (use L/R outputs at the same level and if you switch to mono the reverb will be gone).
@@tomnoise23 Ok I apologize you were right. I tested with my double track scope and the signal of the reverb itself is mono. To create the stereo effect this signal is really inverted and mix back to the original sound of the 2600.
This is an horrible design choice, I can't understand how this decision was taken. When mixed in mono the reverb is cancelling itself. So the instrument must be used only using the Left of the Right output. Else as I do, don't use internal fx and use a bigsky, timeline, blackhole or anything that can really work in stereo (even a reals mono spring reverb like the doepfer A-199 is a better choice, that's what I'm using for metallic sounds).
I thought the selected components were in relation to the real spring reverb?
Nicely Done
Well thought out Set Up
& Patches sound great, have alot goin on
Interesting Spectral comparisons
Grey sounds slightly richer with just earbuds... will try thru studio monitors tomorrow...
Thanx T
It sounds like the Gray Meanie has a little more ... umph. LOL Not sure how to say it but maybe had a little wider lower end? To me the gray meanie had a slightly better sound. And thank you very much for doing this! It's not boring to me.
AGREED!! 👍🏼
🌈
thanks for the great video ...i am no expert but i think the grey is slightly more mellow not as bright on a few of your examples great for my style of old electronic effects etc also i i like clanky noise ridden reverbs ... i will be putting my blue 2600 through old tape machines and mine have lots of dirt and noise is i am happy sp far with what i have heard about the blue/grey 2600 ...great video easy to understand for us non pro producers and pro musicians thanks btw how limited are these blue/grey versions
Grey has a real spring reverb in it and black is digital. I was unaware of the filter difference. Interesting. $100 USD difference is well worth it.
do not forget the digital reverb is stereo, the spring reverb is mono, then the "raw" sound with reverb from a standard 2600 is more pleasant. If you plan to use external fx it does not matter, then why spending $100 for a spring reverb you will not use in the gray meanie ? That's the question ! (I have both and love both and I have a big eurorack with fx, for someone not as well equiped, the standard 2600 will have a better sound out of the box).
the reverb is mono with one side being phase reversed to the outputs on all versions. No difference apart from digital vs. mechanical spring.
@@tomnoise23 Can you connect only one output(L) then, if it’s mono?
@@LukezyM sure, the signal flow is mono anyway.
Interesting difference in the sound of the resonance. I did not expect it. You did a good job highlighting it. I thought the only difference would be the reverb, since Behringer’s descriptions of these is super vague. I wonder whether there is a difference between Grey and Blue as well.
There should be no difference between the grey and blue, they use the same PCB, the only difference is the color of the top plate.
Thanks for the video Tom! I'm curious to know what your mixer levels look like, particularly in the 2 and 3 VCO examples. To my ears (but very limited 2600 experience), the ARP seems to have more of a growl with these types of sounds, particularly in the bass realm. So I wonder if you're driving the mixer (and filter) as hard as you can.
Yes, mixer levels where at 100%. But my old ARP was not much different with that, as far as I can remember. Unfortunately I can’t compare anymore. As soon as you use resonance, the level drops
So ad I knew it haven't some patch cables?
I can hear a very slight difference in fatness/roundness of tone with the grey one. I closed my eyes and did random seeks in the video and always knew which was which. A lot of what people perceive as enjoyable analog sound is due to nonlinearity and harmonic distortion. It’s certainly not night and day, they do sound quite close, but the original seems more precise, almost more like a good digital emulation, whereas the grey seems to have just a slight slight bit more ‘fur’ in the tone for those analog freaks. In a mix you probably wouldn’t hear the difference. I like the color blue and the normal white lights, so i bought the blue one 😂 scientific reason. Haha
Glad to see both sound great, but you are getting more then just a different color plate for your $100 bucks. At this rate, I’m still waiting for them come in stock in the US. At this rate, I’ll take what ever 2600 I can get my hands on. They say the blue/grey are limited edition, yet their standard already seems to be in limited supply.
No difference period. Spring reverb on one, digital on the other. I'm going with the digital reverb less hassle.
thanx! Grey, more characther ...
2 actual 2600 arp's sitting side by side dont sound the exact same.... thats the essence of anolog synths
One goes Myyut Myyut while the other is rather Mwoot Mwoot
👍😂
How did you manage to get a grey meanie?
Ordered at thomann
Very Cool!!!
Hi - Great to see comparisons like this as Behringer don't tell you what the differences are! The Grey has a slightly different filter as it has additional/different components but, let's be honest, the difference is not going to be a massive contributing factor when you start patching. The 'biggie' is the spring reverb but it's hard to see how they can justify another £100 just for that. I have a Moog Grandmother with a spring reverb and they sound, er, springy :-) Also, everyone knows the ARP 2600 is brown and orange! :-)
No no, the 2600 is dark grey, believe me 😁
I would love you to explore the way the 2600 is used on Herbie Hancock's "Sextant" album
Prefered the grey for the bassier sounds and standard for higher up the range.
Warum hast Du den schon?
Weil ich den sehr früh vorbestellt habe.
These differences are measurable but you don't hear them at all. The Special edition 2600 use through hole capacitors, that's the main difference for the filters. The difference between the two types of filters is only audible if you drive them to the extremes and then it's mostly a difference in brightness. I have the Gray Meanie but I actually like the black and orange look better. Only the reverb in the original is digital and I hear from others that it is noisy too.
Yes there is a slight difference but you have to ask yourself, "is it a $100 difference?".
Right but that’s a different story. Design, other LED colors, digital Reverb vs. Spring Tank would be more important for a decision imo.
I don’t see or heard any difference..
Nothing I can hear outstanding between the two. Variations in factory calibration. How long did they both warm up?
When I get my stuff set back up I'm going to compare my 2600 to my CAT since it's probably going to be the most similar sounding. I do have a short demo on my channel of the CAT and Pro-1 set up to sound the same and hard panned R and L.
i bought a grey mean, bstock, when i got it it had the xmas tree lights, so9me jerk swapped the face plate of a black version. returning it for a new blue... Shady people suck..
People who have used headphones and/or a decent sound system and who cannot hear the difference definitely have a hearing issue that must be adressed if professionals, sorry ! (I personaly hear a more beefy, thicker low end on the Gray Meanie, as well as tiny bit more harmonic content in the mids). Big up and many thx to t.noise, I was about to get the x-mass tree... and I'm happily in the waiting list for a GM.
+1
Standard version has more clicky attack and sounds brighter.
Agreed, it has a bit more bite which I’d prefer.
Agree as well, but I prefer the grey meanie's "mud" better...
@@gramsey3165 Lol - what?
The Meanie clearly has more bite. It sounds way bigger and raw dirty 70's like.
@@henrikgerlach4765 probably depends how we describe ‘bite’ in audio terms. The meanie could be a tad beefier, but the standard will cut through the mix better. The good news is if you have the standard you can add your own select capacitors, as the holes are present in the pcb.
Just marketing... different face plate color. They sounded the same to me.
Some people seem to hear colours of a chassis 🤣🤣🤣! So the Blue sounds brighter than the grey or the Orange is dirty??? 😉Close your eyes and hear the truth! I didn't hear a difference. But you did?
Gray Meanie sounds so much fatter and aggressive. I regret now having bought the shitty standard one....
Your samples are too long, i forgot first synth when listening second
The “standard” is stabier
what does stabier mean? 🤷♂️
Honestly they sound the same, think the 2600 is a little smoother but that probably comes down to minute differences in the unit and knob placements so whatever
Sounds the same to me. Prefer the look of the older one though.
no important difference to these ears.
No difference
The Grey Piece of shit basically sounds better because it costs $100 more than the standard 2600.
I have here the 2600 black ( metal dark grey ) and orange and the Odyssey and i need to say i love more my Odyssey . There is a magic in the duophonic i can't find on the 2600 . It feels lifeless .
LOL
2600 can be duophonic too. Or are you just trolling?
Interesting - But you`re aware that the 2600 can be played duophonic as well? However, never tried an odyssey myself.
7 minutes of talking and I still haven’t heard the synth. I’m out!