How to Play a Twilight Domain Cleric in Dungeons and Dragons 5e
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarter.com/projects/... We take an in depth look at the Twilight Domain Cleric, we discuss spells, feats, races, backgrounds, and tactics to bring this incredibly powerful class to life at your table.
This episode is SPONSORED by FABLES: Citadel of the Unseen Sun. check it out here ghostfiregaming.com/fables-du...
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0:00 - Sponsor
1:13 - Intro
2:14 - Getting Started
4:28 - Level 1
12:33 - Level 5
21:36 - Level 10
29:55 - Level 15
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To be clear, Monty's ruling isn't meant to wholly negate all the effects of Twilight Sanctuary when the ability is used in bright light. Dim light is one of the effects of the ability, but the other effects of the ability are not contingent on dim light. Even when extant bright light fills the sphere, the Twilight Cleric still hands out temp HP and such. It's just that when there is extant bright light, the area cannot be used as a "jumping off point" for Steps of the Night.
I think as a DM I'd rule it to be both Twilight and daylight using it in the sun. Same if it were to be used in magical darkness. I would call it twilight only if used in normal darkness because an absence of light. I see these things coexisting.
I think the way I'd treat it to work in daylight is that instead of it adding dim light to sunlight, it would filter sunlight to create the dimness acting like some kind of semi-opaque ball, that's supressing/absorbing the colour wavelengths at day, and re-emiting them at night
I agree with Monty, that is how Light works. There are spells from earlier editions that specify spells that make things darker, if they intended that, they simply would have said that. This is a convenient way to help people in a dark area, but not much more. Fortunately all of the other abilities don't require Dim Light, they just need to be in your radius.
If you need to, a friend of mine uses a clever trick where you cast Darkness above the battlefield, blocking any direct light, but not consuming the battlefield in complete Darkness. It creates dim light on its own, by creating a large shadow.
Also great for Drow, Kobolds, and other creatures who have Sunlight Sensitivity.
Twilight sanctuary makes the ambient light dim.
It’s seems like an unnecessary nerf to a somewhat limited ability to say, ‘well it only works in darkness or dim light.’
@@dranzsik6700 my exact interpretation.
My favorite story arc is the DDudes talking about themselves in a more and more positive light each time they do this sponsor. First it was "who might know a thing or two about dungeons", now it's "pretty talented dudes"
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My DMs and I (the Twilight Cleric of the party) like to say that even the sun can be blinding and scorching. The Twilight Cleric provides comfort, safety, and a stalwart defense in the darkness, as a part of the darkness. So when my Cleric casts Twilight Sanctuary we describe it together as a soothing aura that blots out the heatwaves of the sun in an intense desert. It provides a magical protection not unlike the shade a tree will offer in the peak hours of the sun's burning heat.
100% how it's supposed to be from the flavor text. Magical light could throw off the twilight, but I can't see natural light doing anything to it. It's a magical effect tied to your subclass, so I don't understand why they would let it be so easily negated by any source of light. Makes no sense
As a redheaded Australian, I really should have speced into a couple of levels of Twilight Cleric.
Ehhhh. I just took evocation feat to silent image some dim light on command
before reading this, i supported the opposite side of the argument, but your flavorful explanation got me!
Both Dawn and Dusk are considered hours of Twilight. Thus, turning both Darkness and Bright Light into Dim Light seems entirely appropriate for this subclass, imo.
Absolutely in concurrence with this statement It doesn't need to be restated when it refers to Twilight sanctuary and also dim light We all know that during Twilight in the time frame of Dawn or dusk there is a dim amount of light not bright and not absolute darkness so the reason it stated the way it is is so that in bright light it is dim or shaded and in darkness it is lightly illuminated, Thank you for your poignant comment
I side with Kelly on this. The description says "a sphere of twilight emanates from you" and "has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light." I think the "twilight" emanating from you is both magical light and darkness, to created the dim-light. If they wanted it to just be "you emitted dim light in a 30ft sphere" it would have been easy to word it that way.
I agree with you, but by the same token you could argue they could have worded it as "has a 30ft radius within which there is only dim light".
@@YMasterS no one talks like that lol
Right. The ability creates a sphere. The sphere has the properties listed there, ie being dim light filled.
People seem to get it confused with an aoe spell effect. but it doesn't affect the area, it creates a sphere.
@@YMasterS Where there is only dim light. so nothing else may exist with the sphere? XD
@@Lazerus101 jokes aside, context makes clear that that's not the meaning. If you want to go further, you can say the light condition is dim light, but that's not how Wizard's write dnd rules.
My thinking on the Twilight Sanctuary would be that it would supersede natural ambient light and make it dim, but any source of magical light or darkness would supersede the Sanctuary's dimness.
As the DM for my group, I kind of approve of this but I wouldn't tell them that, they would have to figure that out for themselves
Per the 'specific beats general' rule, for sure it would be dim light out in the open sun. I'd argue the same for torches and other mundane light sources.
By my interpretation of the above rule, I'd also apply that to most magical light sources that just shine light. Like Starry Form or the spell that makes magical light sources from a gem (forgot the name) for example. Since an emission of x ft/y ft is way more general than a specific area (twilight sanctuary is specified as a fixed area, not a light source) of a specific light fixed to a specific creature.
Now darkness, daylight, wall of light, etc. is way harder to rule and I honestly have no idea how to without just saying f it.
I'm in agreement that it creates dimness in the bright light. Thematically this seems to be the intention. Consider as well that Twilight Domain clerics get 300' of darkvision. They have no need to create a dim light for their benefit. They would prefer dimming down the bright light. I envision wraparound sunglasses on this character. :)
@@TheBierp actually in darkness even with dark vision they would still have Disadvantage on perception checks because it would be treated as dim light. But with their aura it would be dim light which is treated as bright light with dark vision so they wouldn't have disadvantage.
If magical light doesn't effect magical darkness, why would it effect magical dimness?
In my opinion, the orb of twilight should be dim regardless of the light already present. This helps to create a more thematic character and really embodies the idea of twilight as light is sucked from the orb is well
The sphere emanates dim light. Full stop. It works whether you’re in darkness or bright light. This isn’t a light source. It’s a magical aura.
Also, don’t frontline this subclass unless you have to. Twilight clerics are the best healers in the game as long as they remain conscious. Your priority is to maintain your sanctuary and concentration spell. Toll the Dead is fine for dealing damage and it leaves your hand free for casting until you get Warcaster.
Warding Bond works exceptionally well with Twilight Sanctuary as it spreads the damage out across multiple characters with temporary hit points.
reading this now as I am playing the class, I find it kinda funny of not front lining the class when I also had this opinion I also at 5th level single handedly took out over 15 enemies and survived a mission gone WAY WRONG with just, toll the dead, twilight sanctuary and spirit guardians lol.. sadly the paladin died ( like I said this plan went way way way wrong) now my cleric who is supposed to be a person who only wants to help and heal others and ONLY attacks to defend others is traumatized by the events that occurred in that session lol..
By Monte's logic the Orb of Twilight will never change any light into dim light which makes this utterly useless. I agree with Kelly on this one!
Top tip: The temp HP the channel divinity gives you can be converted to actual HP by casting Life Transference to low HP team mates.
How?
@@dennischichester2590 life transference deals damage to you and heals others. You'll only take damage to your temp HP, but heal real HP
i'd love to see you keep this series going for all the S-Tier subclasses! hexblade is my favorite go-to right now but if my party needs a cleric, this is my vid! sorcerer next would be cool ;)
Hopefully Aberrant Mind or Clockwork Soul!
@Ninja _PvP im in favor of clockwork, but my friend is playing aberrant mind so he wouldnt mind that either lol
My experience is that people rarely need extra encouragement for S rank subclasses since they're so hard to play wrong. I would be more interested in more videos for A or B ranked subclasses since they require more specialized choices.
@@Chameleonradio more so for newer players like me who just dont know better
@@vision_312 Imo Abberant Mind is the better of the two. Better bonus spell list, and being able to swap them out for Divination or Enchantment spells is dope. The ability to force or grant re-rolls from Clockwork is nice, but AM lvl 6 feature is bonkers.
I think Twilight Sanctuary turns the area into dim light regardless of lighting. It is being magically created after all, so regardless of how light works irl or in game, it should create an area of dim light.
Exactly! Idk why this is even still an argument at this point - Crawford has stated endlessly that every ability does EXACTLY what the ability says it does. And Twilight Sanctuary says very very VERY clearly that the area is filled with dim light, so whatever the lighting situation was before popping the CD it is now “filled with dim light” lol
@@czcrossman I don't think that's the part being argued. There is dim light definitely being expelled. But I dont know of any light that makes things darker.
If you light a candle in a brightly lit room, it's still just as bright as it was was before.
@@RobThePrincess I would probably say that instead of adding dim light to the bright light of the sun, it instead takes away the bright light from the sun (within your aura) similarly to a black hole sucks in light. Idk its weird but a part of me wants to nerf it so if it's sunny your powers aren't as effective which would make you have to strategize instead of being an OP subclass.
@@RobThePrincess Real light can make things darker, it interferes with itself as its a wave. see quantum mechanics and the double slit experiment
@@Psuedo-Nim It’s magical. Is the torch magical?
As a DM, I rule that Twilight Sanctuary creates an aura of twilight that dims existing light to dim light. However, if a spell of a level higher than that Twilight Cleric's maximum spell slot level creates light, it supersedes that dimming effect and the Steps of Night feature will not function.
Fair call
My interpretation of "It's filled with dim light" means it's filled with dim light. IMO Monty point of view require deducing that the cleric is sort of emitting dim light, which are not written anywhere. So I am with Kelly on this...
PS: It's really comum to see people disagreeing about this topic on many D&D forums. It would be so great if Jeremy Crawford start answering this kind of question again, like he use to do.
rai is on the UA twilight cleric video about creating areas of darkness/dim light from jeremy crawford.
@@TheRobversion1 where can we find sources to follow up?
@@TheRobversion1 but we also have the raw rule of 'specific beats general'.
It synergizes so well with other twilight cleric abilities that it feels this should be the intention.
@@fuzzygreentiger look up the UA Twilight cleric dnd beyond vid. Take note that vid only talks about RAI/design philosophy. I've scoured twitter and JC hasn't come out with a RAW ruling yet to the best of my knowledge. RAI though you can be assured, filling an area with dim light to use twilight cleric abilities is the intention.
I've been playing a twilight cleric in my campaign. This is the first Cleric I've ever tried and I am absolutely loving it. The intriguing flavour brought me in and the incredible power of twilight sanctuary is immensely satisfying. I remember re-reading the ability description numerous times because I thought that I must be misinterpreting it. Having seen it in action in numerous combats now I can't overstate how effective it is at keeping your fellow adventurers alive, and the fact that it does not require concentration means that you can retain great flexibility in combat.
In my case, I opted to go for the stealthy version of this build and it has been a blast sneaking around with my party of monks and rogues. I was never really inspired by Clerics previously but I am now!
Did you give up on the heavy armor proficiency and switch to DEX-based so that you can be effective at sneaking? That's what I'm considering for my new twilight cleric.
@@Red_Devil_2011 I did switch to Dex and went with a breastplate to be viable at sneaking. I'd say this choice depends on your campaign and party composition, but I found the flavour worked very well for me and Twilight Sanctuary really helps with survivability when in a tight situation.
I agree with Kelly, it’s a sphere (like a bubble) filled with dim light. The feature specifically says “filled with dim light.” Not “filled with dim light or brighter” or “dim light in darkness” You would have to say this feature wouldn’t work in bright light because it wouldn’t be “filled with dim light”
I agree with Kelly. Like Monty said, DnD treats darkness and light as an inky blot, so if you crest dim light, it means your area is now dim light.
The lvl 17 trait, Twilight Shroud, says "the twilight that you summon offers a protective embrace: you and your allies have half cover while in the sphere created by your Twilight Sanctuary."
It seems to me that Twilight Sanctuary does create a zone of dim light around the caster, whether he is in bright light or darkness.
EDIT: I would add that the text of Twilight Sanctuary says : "As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light." It does not say "you emanate dim light in a sphere of 30 ft radius centered around you", but a sphere of twilight, filled with dim light. It's clear to me that this zone creates an area of dim light around the caster.
I'm really enjoying how much you get out of even just a 1-2 level dip from another spellcaster. It's like a warlock in a lot of ways, only without losing out on the spell slot progression.
What would you dip to, and what would you want to grab?
@@ootz0rz You dip into Twi Cleric
@@ootz0rz I play a Changeling Divine Soul Sorcerer who dipped 2 levels into Twilight Cleric to pick up armor, darkvision, initiative advantage for the party's rogue, the channel divinity, and several cantrips and prepped level 1 spells that don't care how big my Wisdom is to free up my Sorcerer spells known for bigger things on the list. I already have constitution save proficiency from being a sorcerer and can toss in shield to keep hits that're close to my armor from getting through, so it's a pretty solid mix. You could definitely argue that being two levels behind as a Divine Soul might be too high a price for spells I already have access to, but it definitely fit my character as a logical next step after spending some time reflecting on what's so divine about their soul and turning to their goddess Selune for answers.
Ahh thanks I had misread, that sounds awesome though thanks!
I just played my first ever D&D session last night, as a twilight cleric named Cassander. I can't wait to get into this experience and subclass!!!!
A Friend playing a Twilight always gave to my Hafling Monk Advantage on Initiative. Frequently my character was able to traverse the battlefield in the first turn and Stunlock an enemy spellcaster!
The image of a Halfling Monk stunning the enemy makes me smile. Reminds me of an NPC in Dragon of Icespire Peak, Quinn Hightopple, and his "Halfling hello," which is the urge upon greeting taller folk to punch them in the groin. Now I'm absolutely going to level him up as an NPC Monk... 💪😂
My character is a Monk only in Mechanics. hehe
We are playing in a High Fantasy Brazilian Colony era inspired Setting (We are all Brazilians).
My character is from an south american native inspired Halfling Tribe with Shamanistic powers, using the (Not so great, but still fun) sub-class Long Death Monk. This character is more Brutal in combat with his stunning Strike.
But I can imagine how awesome is imagining a little person kicking and punching someone in the balls. LOL
I’m excited to see your version of the Armorer. My mind runs rampant in thinking about this class, and can’t wait to see your versions.
This is so fun! I would love to see you build more and more character builds with a leveling breakdown like this. Super helpful and appreciate your input. Thanks!
As always, perfect timing! I just started playing a Twilight Cleric in a Mythic Odysseys of Theros campaign. Great Divination work by you two on the needs of the audience!
This is awesome, I love this domain so much and am glad to see it getting attention. I still remember vividly how my jaw hit the floor when I read that it gives you 300 feet of darkvision 😂
I'm currently playing a Shadow Magic Sorcerer in one game and an Order Domain Cleric in another, and I'd absolutely love to see a video on how to play either or both of these, as I often don't see the best ways to utilize my subclass abilities until someone explains it to me.
Keep up the great work, gentlemen 👍
As I read it, Steps of Night says you need to be in "dim light or darkness" and Twilight Sanctuary says you cast an aura of "dim light". Auras are always on as long as you maintain concentration. So I see Steps of Night working in full daylight simply because the aura is functioning.
I always learn something new, get new ideas for how to run my characters, or get excited for things I wasn’t excited about before when I watch these and that’s fantastic. Thanks Dudes!
Literally playing a twilight this week!! Thank you so much for this video!! Love you guys
The Twilight Sanctuary/Aid combo becomes absolutely ridiculous once you can cast Animate Dead. My cleric and the party’s Spore Druid have a small army of nearly unstoppable zombies. Even if some die, they always provide fresh bodies to enlist. Our Paladin is not as happy about it as we are.
Absolutely side with Kelly on this one. The area is filled with dim light. The language is very clear. It doesn't mention bright light because it doesn't care what the current ambient light is. The area is dim. This also fits better thematically than increasing bright light as a night-themed cleric.
Not just themes, I would say, but even the other features points this way as well. I'm looking at the 17th level feature where it's supposed to grant cover. If it's just a source of dim light that simply gets drowned out in the sunlight, it wouldn't have been granting cover anyhow.
Therefore to take the overall picture into account, the magical aura of the Twilight Cleric grants a region of dim light is how I would've ruled.
I like those in-depth, detailed looks on specific classes and that one healing option sounds really great :D Good stuff, Dudes!
I’ve been waiting for this one!! Thanks Dungeon Dudes🙏🏾
I would say that the channel divinity would work similar to the darkness spell. Monty is right that light is additive, but he forgets that there is precedent for that darkness being an “inky blot” in the form of magic. So creating dim light, I think, would work in a similar fashion, because it is magical.
I haven't playde one, but I really wanna play a drow twilight cleric of Eilistraee. It's such a good fit, and Eilistraee is possibly my favorite DnD deity.
As for the dim light debate, besides what other people have already said, I wanna point out that it says it crates a "sphere of twilight". That alone to me sounds like it would darken the area around you if you're in bright light, otherwise it wouldn't really be much of a "sphere of twilight" now would it?
I'm playing this now in Curse of Strahd and it's my favorite character ever! It's so thematic and fits so well!
I'm doing this except it's a half elf with the drow variant
@@samharris7601 That works too. Eilistraee actively encurage her followers to get along with other races, and even work to establish good relationships with them. Half-elf children sounds not just possible, but inevitable.
@@TheHornedKing we stan Eilistraee in this household
I styled Water Genasi to look like a drow and made him Selune follower in a Waterdeep campaign. Not only works perfectly for thematic, but now the cleric works in any terrain with no problem, doesn't matter the ligthing either.
Thank you! I’ve been watching everything I can about Clerics and how to use them. Go figure I love the idea of playing a cleric and helping other dish out the DPS.
Twilight is absolutely wonderful!
I'm actually playing a Warforged for class and it's great! Tons of utility, and also I love the vibe of a sleepless watcher, keeping guard over the party at night while looking at the stars
I would rule it that the area around you in your twilight Sanctuary becomes dim light, even during the day, which then grants you the flight ability.
That’s how I read it - Crawford is sick of answering questions like this I’m sure because he always says “The ability does EXACTLY what it says it does” and the ability says very explicitly that the area is filled with dim light. So that means the whole radius of the aura (whatever the light situation was before you popped the CD) is now FILLED WITH DIM LIGHT lol
I imagined it looking like the twilight from The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess.
@@czcrossman Ye, I thought it'd be cool to be in Jeremy's position of being the lead in a very strong, healthy, and creative game, but some of the things people ask is like "huh?"
Agreed. Plus, twilight is only once a day…so I think it should not even be a question.
Great stuff here! I would like to see that "telekinetic, telepath, mind sliver, mind whip, synaptic static clockwork soul sorcerer" Monty mentioned in the Tasha's feat video. Seems like a powerful character to showcase.
I love this on my Cavalier Fighter! Cavaliers have a lot of defensive abilities and this helps fill in the gaps where I focus on attacking
You all are so much better than other you tubers as you have a great knowledge of the rules and emphasize role play significantly. Well done boyz
I'm actually playing a Dhampir Rogue multiclassing into a Twilight Domain Cleric, specifically one of Selûne. It's not optimized mechanics wise by any chance, but just having a half-undead half-human struggle with his monster within and finding peace in religion is kind of an amazing character story I wanted to tell.
I've got an Arcane Trickster/celestial warlock who I'm thinking of taking a 1 level dip in to Twilight to cement his relationship with his patron, The Raven Queen.
His sister was kidnapped by a vampire and he gave his service for her patronage. I think it's fitting.
My Reborn/Zombie Twilight Domain Cleric would probably get along pretty well with them
Like the cleric from "Journey Quest"?
The monster part, not the Rogue part.
So the question effectively is: Does twilight Sanctuary EMIT dim light, or does it ENFORCE it? Personally, I like the idea that it enforces it.
That makes sense to me considering it's called SANCTUARY. It's like a magical aura that encompasses the cleric so that all light around is dim light.
It creates a bubble. And that bubble is filled with twilight. Nothing else. No light, no darkness, just twilight exists within the bubble. Its magic. Physics aren't required and the fact thats even considered in the video is downright stupid.
The flavor of the spell is to create a soothing sanctuary for your party. This works in the blazing sun of the desert or the pitch blackness of the abyss.
Its the whole point and flavor of the spell and fact that monty rules it the way he does nerfs the as written intent of the spell. You're channeling the power of a God... no more needs be said.
Yes, to the graphic data while you are explaining things. Helps us understand better.
Keep up the good work dudes
Got Tasha's for my birthday back in autumn and I've been waiting a long time for this video. Great job, Dudes! I'm also such a fan of when they add extra text on the screen for the gags. Mmm Starburst 😂
hell yeah! this is what I've been waiting for. I just joined a new DnD group and they need a cleric and this is exactly what I wanted! thanks Dudes!
Got one in one of my groups right now. Twilight cleric devouted to illmater. Complete damage mitigation and healing/support. It's pretty impressive. The best thing I've noticed about twilight is how versatile it is.
Choose some other subclass if you don't hate your DM.
Have fun, your dm gets to have fun with dangerous monsters now lmao
@@DankBobRoss this is what Im thinking I'm thinking he'll throw some more dangerous foes at us, and I'm all for it. I love a challenge in my DnD games
another good feat is metamagic adept (extended spell), combine with aura of vitality to double the duration to 2 minutes, with 1d6 per round and 10 rounds per minute you can heal 20d6 in only 2 minutes, combine with beacon of hope for 120 hp total.
its actually 40d6 cuz aura of vitality is 2d6 per bonus action
@@muchos5233 Even better!
You would need someone else to cast and concentrate on Beacon of Hope though.
I am playing a Twilight Cleric / Circle of Stars Druid, and I am loving her! In our campaign, Twilight Sanctuary makes a tiny-hut style aura of dim light, so we are with Kelly on it absorbing light to bring the light level down in bright daylight, allowing things like Steps of Night. She also has Resilient CON and Fey Touched. I had never really looked at Aid, but I will now.
Thanks for this video guys!! You got my creative brain cells buzzing for the first big bad in the new homebrew campaign I'm running. Never considered HOW a lich comes to be, but it gives me a great reason why the first boss is how they are.
I'm with Kelly on this one, I get what Monty is saying about light being additive but unless I plan to apply that across the board (even with mundane light sources) I'll go with 'it's magic!'. The twilight cleric projects a sphere of dim light that supersedes natural light but I will grant that it will be superseded by torches ("mechanical light") and magical light.
a good combo is twilight domain + necromancer wizard or just a twilight domain with the spell of animate dead, since your Twilight Sanctuary can allow you to give them temporary HP and end the charmed/frightened condition because the only requisite is that the creature ends its turn in the sphere, you dont need to use your reaction at all, so if 16 friendly skeletons/zombies end theyr turn within 30 ft of you, you can give them 1d6+5 of temporal HP.
also, since they dont roll initiave but rather act on your turn you can just give the advantage on initiave on yourself and by doing so allows all your undead minions to act first, its like giving advantage to all the undead minions at once.
if you choose this, i would recomend the feat of inspiring leader (for you or an ally with high cha.) since its really helpfull and doesnt have a limit of uses.
edit: also, at 17 level they all get half cover so there is also that.
inspirational leader is after the long or short rest, twilight sanctuary is during combat after inspirational leader hit points have run out.
First time actually playing D&D instead of being the DM, and I'm going to be playing as a twilight cleric. This video is fantastic, and I'm retooling some things before we play. Thank you for this wealth of info, I love all your videos!
I’m starting a new campaign as one this weekend. Perfect timing! Thanks guys, I’ve never played a cleric before. I’m playing him with a John Constantine flair.
I think that the hardest part is finding a DM willing to allow a Twilight cleric.
I allow it but modify the dark vision to only be 120ft
Mine nerfed the twilight sanctuary so it only grants the temp hp once instead of every round
@@jailpk3d yeah i did the same.
I even ask my DM to do that with my cleric because i thought it was to busted. The CD is the only problem of the subclass IMO. The rest is just good shit. But the Cd is just busted.
All of your DMS are cowards and should try to get better
@@RavarSeer The Darkvision is no problem.
most Dm's and players overthink it, it is not op and only helps in combat with total darkness.
remember it turns darkness into dim light and dim light into light, so a place in dim light you can see normally, but in darkness you will still have disadvantage on perception with darkvision.
This is going to be interesting. I've seen a lot of DMs that ban this subclass due to Twilight Sanctuary (and the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian gets the same treatment).
so this subclass might get nerfed if the future?
I’ll never understand DM’s banning anything. A creative DM can challenge any group of characters
@@Monochrome_11 I've never seen WoTC nerf a subclass. Sometimes they clarify rules but I don't remember something getting nerfed
@@thetowndrunk988 I see what you mean, but this subclass just sucks the fun out of making encounters. You need to take into consideration the extra hp, you are limited in options since fear and charm are worthless vs this cleric, you can't use dominated enemies because the charm end affects any creature the cleric wants, you can't use slow AoE damage to grind resources because free hp...
Like, paladins are great vs undead, but you can still use them and have a good fight, but jesus christ this cleric just *ends* so many encounters by existing...
@@thetowndrunk988 the counter to this is not everyone wants to have to do that. some people work 40+ hour weeks and run published adventures because they don’t have the time or energy to be constantly creating their own content or having to tweak stuff that was advertised as being good, balanced, and fun. i personally don’t do that and i don’t mind coming up with new stuff, but i’m also a college student who runs games sporadically at best, and i could understand someone not wanting to have to deal with that kind of thing.
Great guide as always!
I would just add to the discussion that many DM's interpretation of Twilight Sanctuary states that the temporary hitpoints end when Twilight Sanctuary ends (at the end of a minute or if you are knocked out). This is in line with the PHB's ruling "Unless a feature that grants you temporary hit points has a duration, they last until depleted or you finish a long rest". The feature that grants the temporary hitpoints is clearly Twilight Sanctuary and it does have a set duration. As a player, this also makes sense since the subclass is really powerful either way.
I am about to DM the Dungeons of Drakkeheim campaign for my group and one player picked Twilight Cleric about a month ago. Very cool coincidence yall dropped this guide right before we start lol.
1.
"The twilit transition from light into darkness often brings calm and even joy, as the day's labors end and the hours of rest begin. The darkness can also bring terrors, but the gods of twilight guard against the horrors of the night. Clerics who serve these deities bring comfort to those who seek rest and protect them by venturing into the encroaching darkness to ensure that the dark is a comfort, not a terror.", this gives the impression that the twilight cleric operates from dusk to dawn, and thus does not actually work as well during the day which means the twilight sanc does not give dim light during situations when there is bright light.
2.
The rules as written here states that "a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere /.../ is filled with dim light", it's magic it doesn't say that you emit dim light, it says that the [magic] sphere that is centered on you is filled with dim light.
Point 1 kills steps of night in a lot of situations, it becomes a situational tool rather than a reliable mechanic if you can't reliably keep yourself in dim light, so I would absolutely rule that point 2 applies, that the sphere is MAGICAL dim light that can't be challenged by anything mundane at least, but since it lacks wording that for example darkness has, it can still be changed using magical means. Also kinda ridiculous that a divine gift just short-circuits if there is non-magical bright light present. Then again the Twilight domain cleric is insanely powerful, so nerfing one of the benefits might be needed in some parties.
You only have to be in dim light to active Steps of Night though, there’s lots of ways to get yourself into dim light for a round (even if you have to cheese it - in their first Twilight Cleric review they talked about running and sliding under a table, activating Steps of Night while out of direct light, then hovering out from the other side of the table lol) to to pop it off then just spend the rest of the time flying around.
@@czcrossman Yea, they reminded me of that in the video too almost immediately after I had written my comment :D
So yes, you and they have a point that you only need to be in dim light for a moment, that but that just means the whole discussion is kinda pointless since the ruling doesn't matter, making it only relevant for roleplay at this point.
I gotta side with Kelly on the dim light debate. I can see both sides, but light and darkness in d&d are both additive in nature. The rules of our reality don't pan out in a game where the very elements can talk to you. I always ran games where I treated light and dark as elemental forces.
I made my level 5 twilight cleric off of your guys recommendation, about to head off for my campaign, cant wait to try this out!
Thanks very much for this video, DDs! I'm currently playing a human Paladin/Twilight cleric and the suggestion to take Fey Touched and Silvery Barbs is super cool. Just in time too, we're fighting a giant clockwork dragon in Ten Towns tonight. I'll need all the help I can get.
In my Tuesday night campaign I’m currently playing a Half Drow Twilight Cleric of Eilistraee named Soleniss. I went Dex based instead of Str/Heavy Armor so I could improve saving throws & initiative (among the other benefits of high Dex) and I love it so far. We’re at level 6 and between my decent Dex mod & Vigilant Blessing I’m pretty reliably toward the top of the batting order haha. Right before battle I use Vigilant Blessing and cast Aid and/or Bless, then usually first round (depending on how difficult the encounter looks) I pop Twilight Sanctuary and get Spiritual Weapon out there, round two I’ll swing the SW and either cast a damage spell like Guiding Bolt or just Toll the Dead, then the rest of the battle heal and/or do damage as necessary. I usually stay toward the middle of the battlefield, but with medium armor and the +1 shield I got from the storage cache of our first big mini-boss I definitely have the AC & HP to be up front taking hits if necessary. I started off with decent stats so I took War Caster at level 4 so I can hold my rapier & shield and make sure I maintain concentration, also I’ve been able to do decent damage with spells/cantrips on AOO’s instead of just swinging the rapier which has been nice. My teammates love me for the temp HP, healing, & buffs and I love throwing around Guiding Bolts & even Moonbeams while controlling the Spiritual Weapon. Out of combat I play her as a hopeful & positive but still wise very devout follower of Eilistraee and for some reason I use a vaguely Eastern European accent lol :D I’m still fairly new to 5e (a little less than 1 year) but so far this is my favorite character I’ve played, TONS of fun!! Can’t wait to play Nissy again tonight! Great video thanks for everything Kelly & Monty!!!
You should multi class into gloom stalker;)
In terms of Twilight Sanctuary and light, I am in the camp of the dim light emanating out from me and creating a bubble of dim light regardless of situation, location, or any other light source. Otherwise, it seems to me that the feature becomes moot and useless with the simple measure of being in the sunlight or someone turning on a light.
The only thing I felt could have been further covered in a subclass video is a strong synergy if multi classing. This was very enjoyable. Much love and see you next video.
Started playing a warforged twilight cleric when it was still UA. Great bonus spells, tremendous mobility with Steps of Night. Great support that can fight right up front when needed.
Don't sleep on stealth with a twilight cleric. They're exceptional at getting to places they shouldn't be.
1) convince your DM to play one.
2) bring food and bribe other players.
3) convince the players.
4) don't feel too dirty about your life choices.
5) trivialize encounters and ask for another PC after a few sessions.
I hope this alternative guide helped.
Alternatively,
1) Don't.
Love your videos, but if I may, I kind of miss the “in characters” introduction part, roleplay tips and inspirations from real world, like you did for the shadow sorcerer. You stay nevertheless the most enjoyable DnD Chanel !
Really love your videos. Was curious if you guys would be willing to do a video about their best synergy builds for multiclassing and how to go about it. Would be greatly appreciated!!
Thank you, dudes! I love your build videos
Twilight clerics are indeed AWESOME. Speaking as a DM, I absolutely have to keep their capabilities in mind in designing encounters. They're teetering right on the edge of overpowered, but I haven't had to nerf them. That said, the cleric in question was in a short-run campaign that was low level 3-->5 so I have not had to deal with any of the higher powers.
The 300' darkvision is crazy, and on paper looks overpowered (better eyes than a kobold or dragon?) but in actual play it hasn't come up, so it's no big deal. Where would you have a line-of-sight more than 60 or 120 feet but less than 300 feet in most D&D situations?
Vigilant Blessing is good, not completely game-changing, but your Assassin and Gloomstalkers will be BFFs with a Twilight Cleric with this feature. Flavor-wise/thematically it's a bit of an odd feature IMO (seems more of a hunter-god thing than star-god thing) but no harm.
That Twilight Sanctuary is STUPID POWERFUL. It just plain is. It's really dancing closely with "needs to be nerfed". The changes in balance this triggers means you're bending encounters around a single player, and that's not good. I can handle it, but I'm mindful of how this can make the cleric the most important party member in almost every situation. With regard to dim light: by my reading the Twilight Sanctuary is an area of dim light. Full stop. With the exception of magical Darkness, the area of the Sanctuary is dim light regardless of whether it's daylight, pitch black, etc. That said... remember what Dim Light means for concealment for people trying to do things in Dim Light! It is this which keeps Twilight Sanctuary from being a complete nerf candidate.
Steps of Night therefore always works in Twilight Sanctuary, unless magical Darkness is involved (I would differentiate magical Darkness versus no-light darkness, not just for flavor but to give me as the DM some tools for being able to challenge a Twilight Cleric). Hunger of Hadar, anyone? Don't worry, the tentacles will catch you...
Spell options: Are awesome, but none are a problem. Clerics of any domain have access to some of the very best in the game.
I like the class, and will play one if/when I get the chance. It's definitely power creep that makes it needful to consider other subclasses/domains, which is an issue, but I think it's manageable.
Thoughts on challenging a Twilight Cleric:
1. Undead. Are you going to Sanctuary or Turn?
2. If magical Darkness overrides that Sanctuary, what about powerful Light-based spells? Does magical Bright Light override the Sanctuary too? Again, I'd say Yes so you as the DM can provide some challenge and battlefield control elements to make your Twilight Cleric think about positioning.
3. If the Twilight Cleric is doing Sanctuary, it's pretty obvious who is doing it. They're gonna draw fire. Just remember the benefit of Concealment from Dim Light. If nothing else, even if the cleric isn't actually being hit much, it'll put a scare into 'em.
One thing that make the twilight cleric not broken in my mind, is even if extremely powerfull his ability is still a buff to his allies, letting them stay up while being the big damage dealers, this way the twilight doesn't steal the show from the rest of the party.
When Twilight Domain was just a UA the designers clarified that bright light becomes dim light. It's not official Sage Advice but that was the intent. This is not dissimilar to other magical effects and items that dampen light and are not merely additive.
If that was the case, then it should have been included in the rules text.
@@DungeonDudes Agreed.
In dozens (hundreds?) of other Sage Advice posts, Crawford has reiterated over and over in every other case that “The ability does exactly what it says it does” and the ability very clearly obviously says “is filled with dim light” so that means that whatever the light situation was before you popped your CD, it is now “filled with dim light”. Idk how or why this is still a debate :/
@@czcrossman Yes, an ability does exactly what it says it does. Twilight Sanctuary says the sphere is "filled" with dim light, but there is no text which indicates the area blocks or suppresses other light sources which emit bright light. Lacking other clarifying text, we should assume the area of dim light operates like any other dimly illuminated area or magical effect which emits dim light.
@@czcrossman I think part of it is that we intuitively use real-world light mechanics, as the @Dungeon Dudes discuss. But we need to think with portals...I mean, magic. The effect states "[the sphere] is filled with dim light." I don't see any practical difference from the way Darkness fills its volume with "darkness"; i.e. from a magical light mechanics perspective.
I would rule at my table that in direct sunlight it wouldn’t block out the sun. Any way that myself and my table can add a bit of realism into our DND without breaking the immersion of playing the game, we use it. Either way though, I do like either way of interpreting it and with a fresh group if a player pitched it to me enthusiastically, I would be 100% on board. Love the episode guys! Keep up the good work
I've been excited for this subclass!
In regards to Twilight Sanctuary I would interpret it in the spirit on the subclass' flavor. Twilight Clerics are masters of that in between time where it's not quite dark but the light is faded. I would say since the effect dictates dim light as an absolute it is both lighting extreme darkness and muting intense light. And I say this mostly because (as acknowledge) light does not work like real light in D&D and because it is the result of a magical effect not a natural one. Therefore the developers are expecting it to work this way since they don't understand lighting the way you guys do nor could we definitively say it would because magic puts science on hold. That's just my take and I could also understand if flight was prohibited even if it was interpreted this way.
I'm currently playing a Half-elf with 7 levels in Twilight and 3 in Gloomstalker. I wasn't thinking about power really at all when I built him, I actually selected all of that purely around his backstory. But he's crazy powerful, especially in the dark. Probably my favorite character I've played.
I'm playing an old assassin, brought out of retirement. So I'm not levelling quite optimally. Started 1:1, then went Ranger 4, cleric 1. Just gone Cleric 2. And he's really getting into the swing of his old ways... I can imagine a complete beast about to be unleashed.
Thank you guys. Exact what i need for my running campaign.^^
2 levels of Twilight Cleric would be sooo useful; Twilight Sanctuary is great for when any of your friends go "Hold my Beer", and especially back in your Motorcycling phase.
The Darkvision is also great considering that mobile phone torches only work for about ten feet.
Far more practical than a couple of levels of Barbarian, I don't need Rage when I'm going to the bathroom at 3am, and if I tried using Rage in the street I could end up being shot by Police … enough bullets would overcome the half damage buff.
It would be difficult explaining the globe of twilight light around you, but as a red headed Australian it would be useful for stopping sunburn.
Something I've been thinking of a lot, would be a Twilight cleric with either a single level in druid or magic initiate (druid) for magic stone.
They animate dead, and enchant some stones. They keep their undead minions in their Twilight sanctuary and fling magic stones at them using your Wis modifier to hit and damage.
Spiritual Weapon is a bit redundant after lvl5. Telekintic feat lets you get a lot more damage out of your bonus action by juggling people in and out of your Spirit Guardians
this video came out at a good time since I was planning on making a twilight cleric mainly since I liked the feel but this vid showed me how good it is I feel my party is gonna enjoy the things I learned
I really liked using alert in build as a first level feat (variant human) granting yourself adv. On initiative with a beefy +5 meant that i was most likely going to go first in most encounters (also cant be suprised). I feel like going first is HUGE with this subclass. I personally think cure wounds is good along with aura of vitality (regular action heal, bonus action heal, end of party members turn grant temp hit points) seems pretty good. Also because you have 300 ft. Of dark vision the feat observant becomes super tasty. You'll be the ultimate night watch during rests (and being able to read lips in the dark from 300 ft. Away just sounds super fun). This subclass is VERY powerful no doubt. But also super fun. Always enjoy your guys's vids. Keep up the good work.
My personal take is that if magical darkness overrides natural light, the dim light from the Twilight Sanctuary would also override the natural light in its radius
The subject could be: how to play a twilight cleric and not embarass your friends at the table. Because that is what happened in one of my tables. A friend played this twilight cleric for a few sessions and had to turn it down because he was ashamed and everybody else embarassed due to how OP this subclass is. It was obvious for all that it broke the game and the fun…
I can totally see that. I'm playing one in Strahd. What should have been a deadly encounter kinda turned into Twilight Cleric doing a lot of hero moves showing off.
I've kinda spun that into Twilight Cleric thinking she's kinda too awesome, getting too reckless, and taking dumb risks that don't pay off to kinda weaken her. She's buying her own hype.
Love these guys. Finally decided to play a Twilight Cleric
Cleric is my favourite class and I haven’t actually played or had any of my players be this subclass.
What a powerful expanded spell list, love it.
Oh yeah. A subclass that can in one turn give out more temp hp than Armorer Artificer, a supposed tank, can get in a day. And that hp refreshes every turn for the whole fight. And it's on a short rest cooldown with several uses per rest. Really, how the hell WotC think it was balanced?
Tasha cast suggestion on them?
Step 1: Don't
...
Step 3: Profit
thank god they posted a new class "how to play" video, i needed it for my experiment, and I've been waiting since the collage of lore bard vid was released.
Thanks for this. I'm looking at playing this for my first time in CoS. It seems like it would be a real advantage.
Love the video guys keep up your good work I don't know if you take requests at all but I would love to see an oath of Conquest Paladin that would be an amazing one to see you guys do but until then keep up the good work.
After 2 years I am finally getting to play a twilight domain cleric in a Waterdeep Dragonheist game. There are 3 of us, me, a silver dragonborn, a half elf thief rogue, and a changeling whispers bard. I have carried us through every combat encounter so far. Twilight sanctuary has kept us alive, and I am using my spells more offensively than any other time I have ever played cleric.
I would really love to see you two making a similar video about any bard class due to it's flexibility!
Just starting a new campaign, and I was going to go with a Tempest Domain as my first cleric. However, this video came out at the perfect time, and I rolled up a Hill Dwarf Twilight Cleric! :-) As for a God, I’m going with Lady Gemcloak, the Crystal Dragon. I’m SO Excited!
My twilight cleric is currently level 6, and I'm loving it!!! I went variant human with medium armor master.
Would love to see the same kind of video for the Peace Domain Cleric!!
I played a goblin Twilight domain cleric which was super fun. I didn't have a good armour, but the disengage, dash and hide bonus action helped me to get out of trouble. In the game I played Twilight sanctuary had a major role, as enemies that attacked us had the charmed condition on them and the barbarian was getting temporary hit points every round. It is a super fun subclass I'm very keen to play again!
Great discussion points! I would rule that light could be shifted from that ability at anytime of day except maybe an hour or two before or after High Noon, when the sun is at its strongest. That symbolizes that the sun at its highest point and in its strongest position.
I love these in depth guides
I took Water Genasi for my twilight cleric. From land and water, it bumps him up to air cleric as well :D I also styled him up as a drow, so he can "blend in" with the shadows before shedding light on the path
Perfect timing. We are playing a short sub-story arc to tell the story of an NPC our current party has kind of "adopted". We will be a 20th level party running around in Wildmount. I chose cleric as I'd never played one and this domain because I like the flavor (comfort, support etc.). Our DM stated we are all going to die (that's the story arc, everyone but the NPC dies) but we have been challenged to make it as difficult as possible. I have built a pallid elf twilight cleric and these pointers will really help me play her since I'm not as familiar with cleric class mechanics. Since this arc will only go a few sessions, I just took most of the ability boosts and warcaster. Con and Wisdom maxed out and boosted strength. These tips give me hope that I can do a decent job playing her. Thank you!
I'll be playing a twilight cleric next. Thanks so much for this video it was really helpful :)
I'm in team the-sphere-creates-twilight-even-in-sunshine