Great discovery will help us to understand better in our nature existence, it's good that brilliant scientist discover something new - who knows..maybe it would give us benefit in many ways :) Thanks National Geographic for sharing, new things to learn today
Wait, this left me with so many more questions than answers. I don’t understand the role of this third partner, and is it always the same third partner, or are their more lichen with three partners but they’re different combos? Also, do all lichen have a third partner or just some? And can we go back to why those two lichen were different but genetically the same? Like, wouldn’t the DNA of the third partner show up? If not, why? And did only one of the two versions have that third partner while the other was just a pair, or did they both have the third partner but it was acting differently in the two different groups? … I was psyched to learn more about this but instead I feel like I walked into an episode summary from the 4th season of a tv show I’ve never seen.
Also, was the first guy a lichen scientist who also takes pics or a photog who became obsessed with lichen? And what exactly was his job on the international lichen study team? Just taking pics? - I mean I’m an artist so I’m not dismissing the importance of good photos, but it made it seem like he became part of the research? But also it seemed like he was called in after the research was done just so he could take the pic?….
All the questions I had, too. They spend so much time creating mystery and introducing characters that they forgot it was supposed to be about lichens. And I guess it’s not just me who is getting this 4 year old video in their feed. WTH, algorithm? I’m also annoyed by the “scientists got it wrong” framing. As if dentists or whomever had known better all along? Or that they’d just been writing articles about which lichens are prettiest and hadn’t bothered looking into their makeup or origins? Or that they were clinging to some dogmatic belief and ignoring the evidence? From what I recall from reading articles in the past, this discovery wasn’t so simple, the evidence wasn’t at all obvious.
@@cintiapollock2486 They're more describing the symbiosis the two share, one building and the other photosynthisizing. Lichens use fungus as structure and algae for their food, while corals themselves are animals, because they are cnidarians, but they hold zooxanthelle inside their bodies to photosynthesize food.
Scientists got it wrong for over 150 years. But trust them on climate change? No thanks. I'll wait another 150 years for the next story to come out. We already changed from global cooling, to global warming and then finally to the all encompassing climate change. Half the time my local meteorologist can't even accurately forecast the weather conditions a week from now. But I'm supposed to hang my hat on long term climate change predictions? I'm still waiting for any of Al Gore’s predictions to actually come true.
@@derpychicken2131 Well, you taught me something today. I was about to respond that corals are part of Porifera, but that's sponges! I love taxonomy but that high school biology knowledge is fading fast, I guess.
Sometimes not so celebrated and even resisted for awhile though by people "married" to a certain theory. They'll try to dismiss it and say "the science is already settled." This is just another example why there's no such thing as "settled science." There's always the chance that something that seemed "settled" and "proven" could be incorrect, even if just partially.
@@ScootymcpuffSr Science is all we have. I trust scientists, doctors, and researchers more than I'll ever trust some random Facebook page or somebody's TH-cam account.
@@Weiner-Worm never trust a scientist that says the science is settled. This video is a great example of how science is always learning, always searching for answers or some new information. That’s what real scientists do. Nobody knows everything, they only know everything that they know up to now. And “now” is in constant change
I remember when ulcers were caused by stress. One day, maybe more, a doctor in Australia figured out that ulcers were caused by bacteria. Well how did Turtle Island doctors react. They refused to believe it for many years. Than they finally accepted it. Some research to develope a medicine and than patients got a treatment that cured the disease. Skeptical attitudes are a good thing. It prevents bad or incorrect assumptions being used too soon before the new therapy is proven effective.
More so the dr that discovered it was H.Pylori bacteria that caused ulcers and other drs refused to believe him, he drank some H.Pylori bacteria and developed ulcers soon after. They believed him after that. Which is also similar to how hand washing was discovered. The dr said “not washing hands between patients is killing them with invisible germs” and the other drs laughed at him. That dr then later died from an infection after another dr operated on him without washing his hands first. Hand washing in chlorine mixed with water started after that.
so i haven't read about that, but if its been proved that a bacteria causes ulcers that does NOT mean that stress doesnt have a contributing factor. From what i know people who are more stressed are correlated with having ulcers. Maybe stress causes that bacteria to increase in population, stress does changes to our hormones and what not that can have an effect on which bacterias are comfortable. etc. So yeah, i dont think that discovery proves that stress is not a factor in ulcers.
One fungus, one algae was the view they had on lichens? I don't think so as they seem too smart to be stuck in that outdated idea. It has been known for decades that this was not true. For example, the lichen Lobaria pulmonaria has been known for many years to be a partnership of a fungus, a green algae, and a cyanobacteria. And never once did National Geographic mention that the third organism in the horsehair lichens (Bryoria) was a yeast which is also the culprit that makes yellow horsehair lichens toxic.
PromiseRW Yep, yeasts are a type of fungi but belong the division Basidiomycota while the main fungal partner in this and most other lichens is in the division Ascomycota. The major difference between the two divisions has to do with how spores are formed. There are a few lichens that have a basidio fungus partner but these aren't accepted as "real" lichens by all lichenologists. One, which I was lucky enough to see a few years ago, is Lichenomphalia.
Easily my favorite organisms ever. I live on a river, with a large rock overlooking the falls. There has to be just about every lixhen possible. Theyre all so alien and beautiufl at the same time. Ive tried and had various levels of success in keeping it in terrariums. Its truly stunning.
well its more like that's the beauty of any objective study. scientists face all the problems we do, but because they stick to a method of verification through testing generally everyone's worse impulses are held accountable and things can pivot when new information comes up as people stick to the methods. IF you notice any area where science meets politics, you will find the exact opposite. A complete inability to pivot or adjust narratives to data and a general escalation in the direction of the political. Politics thankfully cannot hold it back forever. But when people have the power to pass false data as real data and the system makes it too difficult to actually run the required tests. There are huge problems.
Apparently there is more to be studied before lichenology is ready to explain itself in more detail. Interesting to see so much curiosity on the subject. There should be more resources to help explain this phenomenon because it most certainly has clues and answers to bigger riddles in the process of life. Makes me wonder what kind of medicine we might be missing out on.
You claim these chaps have discovered something revolutionary about the biology of lichens but then explain virtually nothing about it. That's pretty useless unless this is just the trailer for a full length documentary.
Which is the main point and really the only relevant part to the laymen anyway. They checked the genes of the one part, which was identical, and the color was due to the other, unaccounted for part.
is this all lichens? or just the horse hairs? if it's all lichens then it would be truly surprising that everyone would have missed it. Its kind of suggested this is the case in some places, but then again, it would be quite hard to demonstrate, and other bits suggest it was just that one species.
I bought four acres with lots of little lichen covered knolls. I have done my best to preserve them through construction. I would love to learn all the different types, and any medicinal uses. They are all beautiful.
When did this discovery take place? I was taught, about 15 years ago, that lichen could be up to three kingdoms: Fungi, Protista, and Monera. Which textbooks were saying one fungi and one algae? Based on the lessons I got it never even occurred to me it was a 1+1 mix per lichen. Maybe I was a bad student and didn't listen to the details.
I'm just a regular person with an interest in science. When this news about the second fungus came out, I was so excited that I told lots of people. They mostly looked at me blankly, but i'm still excited to this day!
If I understand it correctly recent research showed that there might be many more contributing organisms for the lichens to grow. Not only these three. Perhaps NG can do an updated, and even more in-depth (?), video about this?
More please! This is beautiful and fascinating. I think the discovery just shows us that we are too easily satisfied with scientific explanations and don't look further. Science needs to be always challenging it's own theories.
Reminds me of the book "Trouble With Lichen" by John Wyndham. The plot concerns a young female biochemist who discovers that a chemical extracted from an unusual strain of lichen can be used to slow down the ageing process, enabling people to live to around 200-300 years. Wyndham speculates how society would deal with this prospect.
Short and sweet. So short that the video couldn't be bothered to explain HOW the third member of the lichen symbiosis was discovered. What was the process?!
If I could give this a 1000 thumbs up I would! - yes - its amazing what happens when someone looks more closely at common held beliefs. That's what makes science so amazing 150 years can go by and new proof is found and we build on it bit by bit. - great job!
@@carlospentes7436 that 'simplest is probably the right one' idea is soooo over used, and is NOT at all the likely correct answer for many many things. Science in general does not support the simplest, that is a lazy man's construct.
Just because you add knowledge to something doesn’t make it wrong previously. The original premise wasn’t wrong, they just added more information. Adding potatoes to a stew doesn’t mean it wasn’t a stew in the first place.
I was on a walk the other day and discovered a very interesting lichen I had never seen before. I started to think about what exactly lichen were. I knew it wasn't just a plant but wondered what it really was. They seem almost like an animal to me, like coral. And then TH-cam recommends this and now I have something new to obsess over for a bit. I love science and Nature is where it's at.
Here in Nepal, we eat short haired black lichen which grows on some specific tress only...just like the native Americans... But we cook it with pork and its blood mixed...tastes great...and its a medicine too...
Symbiosis? Always knew this was the critical part of biology. About time we understood the role of this in our lives. When we successfully explain how mitochondria (energy producing engines of each cell), thought to have once been independently living single cell organisms, became so thoroughly incorporated into cell physiology, it will be apparent we have actually learned something. We are interdependent, not independent.
So, not one fungus and an algae, but TWO fungi and an algae. I love the lifestyles of the dedicated. Also: symbiosis might be used to describe lichen but was invented a looong time ago by the Greeks.
Fascinating! I've been an avid amateur mycologist (known as a funguy) for almost 50 years and they never cease to amaze. From the pervasive communication and nutrient transportation network beneath our feet to the apparently intelligent common slime mold, 'SpongeBob SquarePants'-yellow Physarum polycephalum' (Brain? BRAIN?! We don't need no stinkin' brains!). Biologists currently classify slime molds as protists, a taxonomic group reserved for "everything we don't really understand'.
Who would have guessed? ! How exciting! I need to go and read up on this. Basidiomycetes! I'm surprised though that no one picked it up sooner, because the cell structure in hyphae of Ascomycetes and Basidiomycetes is different.
It may be 9 degrees F but I'm still finding new lichens for my mini-forest tank. It's actually surprising how quickly they'll get color back and grow with a few squirts of water a day. Smell so fresh too.
Even though video is 5 years old I happen to watch it today... note to the reader: please let me know what more new things we found out in these 5 years
This is why I valued the teachers I had the last few years of high school. I went to a private school where the teachers were retired college professors. The world and history and all that’s in it was fluid, so we were taught What is today may not be tomorrow as we build upon our knowledge. we can learn about today and yesterday, but forgetting to ask questions, and then seeking answers it turns into a stag pool. Continuing to ask questions, finding the answers can change everything that we thought we had once known. This is why knowledge is fluid. The emphasis on our education, the last few years, at the school, under the total age of college professors, thinking, processing information, and adding to what we already know, whereas what we already know, was taught as a foundation. A foundation is very important because you can’t change what you do not know.
There are also lichens that incorporate blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) instead of green algae and those that incorporate both green and blue-green algae, also making for three partners.
-yes it does -They made word sym*BI*osis, literally to describe Lichen. Now they learned that it was not two different organisms that made up Lichen, but rather three different organisms. -So yes, they got it wrong because we've always thought that it was two organisms only, not three. That is a significant difference.
Something Seems Off - The Bi you're thinking of is a Latin prefix meaning "Two," while the Bi in Symbiosis comes from the Greek word Bios, meaning "Life."
Strange you should mention that... there is a recipe going around for making DMT*, a potent psychedelic, from a species of lichen and smoking it. I kid you not. *more commonly made from plants by indigenous South American Shaman or by milking toads in Arizona.
We live in a hardwood forest in southern Indiana and I have often wondered why it is that lichen prefer deciduous trees and rarely, if ever, propagate coniferous trees. This video has rekindled my interest to further research on this aspect of lichen. Thanks!
@@andybaldman I realise but I also remember. Of course, memory isn't always reliable. I do remember being told that in science class and thinking it was pretty cool. Maybe our teacher had hidden knowledge
Sorry, I don't get this. We've known (for 150 yrs) that Lichens are defined by a symbiosis between algae and fungi. "Certain" lichens have a third component (another fungus) in the mix. How does that upend what we've known for 150 years?
So I've been curious when hiking in the NW Oregon woods here. I love to take lichen photography too and I'm so captivated by moss, lichen, fungi. So all those are creating a microcosm type ecosystem within the layers of the forest, on fallen and living trees, stumps, rocks, etc. I'd be really interested in hearing a lot about this microcosm of nature because some look like Dr. Seuss came up with them? Some look like old man's beard, or pieces of lettuce, cups, puzzle pieces, trumpets, all types of textures and colors and I feel like there is a vast amount of depth of info that's going on to create how these lichen find ways to find complex forms of expressions while also tying into their surroundings because they live in symbiosis with their environment. I'm just facinated by them. Truly. I am.
i came across lichen on a field trip in some mountains up in Killarney,Ireland and have been absolutly fasinated eversince !! this video got me so excieted to see the lab and environemtn they were working in
Dont dive into the shallow end of the pool. You'll break your neck. Maybe some other channel actually has something to say about this 3rd symbiote, and its impact on the lichen.
Nice video. Pretty sure some of the things mentioned are known for many years like the fact that lichens are more than a pair of partners but I am not here for this. The word simbioseswas definitely NOT invented by anyone to describe lichens . It is a Greek word. Συμβίωση, derived συν (plus )+ βιώνω (living in a situation, experiencing) . It means living with (others or something). When in doubt, ask a greek. Do not assume...
So glad to find this video, since up to that second, I still believed the one-fungus,one-alga theory taught me 60+ years ago. Big grin for confirming how _little_ we know, and how much _more_ opportunity there is to do my favorite thing: LEARN!
I smoked some twice when I was younger and interested in natural highs - both times were very nice with a definite pan-psychism element until I drank some alchohol, after which I felt utterly poisoned and seriously thought I might die. I never got round to trying a third time without any alchohol.....
I saw this video popping up yesterday, just hours before my biology/botany-exam. I decided to wait until today since the outdated definition from my textbook would be the only right answer on my exam ;)
Exactly. As Max Planck said, "Science progresses one funeral at a time". Until the next textbook is printed your exam answer would be pseudoscience. That's why scientific proofs are always expedient and conditional, except in the exam room.
Lichens returning to an area that has been destroyed by fires or volcanic eruptions is used by scientists as a good indicator that the ecosystem is recovering.
I loved learning about Lichen but bro you tried so hard to frame this as way bigger then it is. This is a lovely expansion on our understanding of Lichen, not proving the world wrong.
I’ve always said Lichen is basically a “land coral”- & now knowing that it’s an algae living in symbiosis with another organism, tells me a I’ve been correct 😂
I mean, you arent totally wrong. Corals are a combination of the coral body(a Cniderian) and an algae (zooxanthellae) 2 years ago,viruses were also linked in the formation of lichens. So it is many species in 1 body.
This grows on the ground with no roots in a few areas where we live. Light green flat sheet like rolled tube shape with branching off different ways. Size; 1"x 1" up to 4" x 4" x 1". N.E. Arizona, Apache County, Witch Well, 85936
Just goes to show you, there's no such thing as "settled science." Things can always change, understanding can always potentially be improved. Always be careful when you hear the term "settled science" bandied about, which is especially relevant in these times.
I have used the brown Lichen for starting fire with Flint and Steel. It hold the smallest spark very well. That has been my experience when starting fires in a primitive method.
Really interesting that this wasn't discovered for so long, because nobody was looking for it. Makes me think an entire shadow biosphere could exist that hasn't been discovered, because nobody is looking for it (in the correct place)
@@1pcfred After you found something why should you keep looking? After all it was only when additional information came along in the form of dna analysis that they realised that something was being overlooked. If they had the dna analysis 150 years ago and did nothing about it then you could make the claim that no one cared.
Huh. I don't understand why they're describing the previously held idea about lichens as totally wrong. Perhaps I'm not fully understanding, but it seems more as if it was largely correct, but lacked one element. It's still a symbiosis, it's merely a more complex one than it was previously understood to be.
National Geographic: Great video; thanks. The cute background sound loops are distracting, however, for those who want to give your content their full attention. This is partly due to the brain having to process two sound data streams at the same time. You may want to further explore this interesting subject, particularly as it affects your audience -- emphasis on the audio.
I had learned that lichen is partnering between algae and fungus. I have never heard it was strictly 1 fungus and 1 algae. And frankly that seems a stupid thing to be caught up on.
The nice thing about science is that it's fascinating and new when you discover mistakes. When people make mistakes in religion, and get found out, the whole thing comes apart, and you have to start all over...
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Wow, Toby has over 14,000 lichen in his lab! What do you think of this discovery of the third partner in a lichen's symbiosis?
National Geographic thts a huge collection for sure and many more on its way !!!
National Geographic. And yet, no hair brush....
Great discovery will help us to understand better in our nature existence, it's good that brilliant scientist discover something new - who knows..maybe it would give us benefit in many ways :) Thanks National Geographic for sharing, new things to learn today
National Geographic some species of lichen are used for traditional medicine here in Java island.
Only 1/3 wrong...
Wait, this left me with so many more questions than answers. I don’t understand the role of this third partner, and is it always the same third partner, or are their more lichen with three partners but they’re different combos? Also, do all lichen have a third partner or just some? And can we go back to why those two lichen were different but genetically the same? Like, wouldn’t the DNA of the third partner show up? If not, why? And did only one of the two versions have that third partner while the other was just a pair, or did they both have the third partner but it was acting differently in the two different groups? … I was psyched to learn more about this but instead I feel like I walked into an episode summary from the 4th season of a tv show I’ve never seen.
Also, was the first guy a lichen scientist who also takes pics or a photog who became obsessed with lichen? And what exactly was his job on the international lichen study team? Just taking pics? - I mean I’m an artist so I’m not dismissing the importance of good photos, but it made it seem like he became part of the research? But also it seemed like he was called in after the research was done just so he could take the pic?….
I'm still trying to process the "we test the DNA of lichens" part... but yes same questions this needs to be a longer video.
I too am confused and left with so many questions 😅
Yeah not informative. They should learn from BBC
All the questions I had, too. They spend so much time creating mystery and introducing characters that they forgot it was supposed to be about lichens.
And I guess it’s not just me who is getting this 4 year old video in their feed. WTH, algorithm?
I’m also annoyed by the “scientists got it wrong” framing. As if dentists or whomever had known better all along? Or that they’d just been writing articles about which lichens are prettiest and hadn’t bothered looking into their makeup or origins? Or that they were clinging to some dogmatic belief and ignoring the evidence?
From what I recall from reading articles in the past, this discovery wasn’t so simple, the evidence wasn’t at all obvious.
I had no idea that lichens were essentially a terrestrial counterpart to coral. Very similar symbiosis dynamic.
Interesting,isn't it.
except coral are an animal lol
@@cintiapollock2486 They're more describing the symbiosis the two share, one building and the other photosynthisizing. Lichens use fungus as structure and algae for their food, while corals themselves are animals, because they are cnidarians, but they hold zooxanthelle inside their bodies to photosynthesize food.
Scientists got it wrong for over 150 years. But trust them on climate change?
No thanks. I'll wait another 150 years for the next story to come out. We already changed from global cooling, to global warming and then finally to the all encompassing climate change.
Half the time my local meteorologist can't even accurately forecast the weather conditions a week from now.
But I'm supposed to hang my hat on long term climate change predictions? I'm still waiting for any of Al Gore’s predictions to actually come true.
@@derpychicken2131 Well, you taught me something today. I was about to respond that corals are part of Porifera, but that's sponges! I love taxonomy but that high school biology knowledge is fading fast, I guess.
This is why I love science. Hold a belief for a 150 years, find out its not correct, and it changes. Even celebrated.
Wrong. trust the science
@@ScootymcpuffSr huh
Sometimes not so celebrated and even resisted for awhile though by people "married" to a certain theory. They'll try to dismiss it and say "the science is already settled." This is just another example why there's no such thing as "settled science." There's always the chance that something that seemed "settled" and "proven" could be incorrect, even if just partially.
@@ScootymcpuffSr Science is all we have. I trust scientists, doctors, and researchers more than I'll ever trust some random Facebook page or somebody's TH-cam account.
@@Weiner-Worm never trust a scientist that says the science is settled. This video is a great example of how science is always learning, always searching for answers or some new information. That’s what real scientists do. Nobody knows everything, they only know everything that they know up to now. And “now” is in constant change
I'm lichen this video!
D Ciii I hope you subscribe to my channel to encourage me and activate the bell
Look out we got a fungi here
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
D Ciii i love lichen fried
BADUM TSSS!
Lichens are an indicator of good air quality.
sure we believe you
Is that why there are none in Delhi
@@gewizz2 it’s actually true
@@arxalier2956 ya
The trees around my house are covered so it's good to know.
I remember when ulcers were caused by stress. One day, maybe more, a doctor in Australia figured out that ulcers were caused by bacteria. Well how did Turtle Island doctors react. They refused to believe it for many years. Than they finally accepted it. Some research to develope a medicine and than patients got a treatment that cured the disease. Skeptical attitudes are a good thing. It prevents bad or incorrect assumptions being used too soon before the new therapy is proven effective.
More so the dr that discovered it was H.Pylori bacteria that caused ulcers and other drs refused to believe him, he drank some H.Pylori bacteria and developed ulcers soon after. They believed him after that.
Which is also similar to how hand washing was discovered. The dr said “not washing hands between patients is killing them with invisible germs” and the other drs laughed at him. That dr then later died from an infection after another dr operated on him without washing his hands first. Hand washing in chlorine mixed with water started after that.
so i haven't read about that, but if its been proved that a bacteria causes ulcers that does NOT mean that stress doesnt have a contributing factor. From what i know people who are more stressed are correlated with having ulcers.
Maybe stress causes that bacteria to increase in population, stress does changes to our hormones and what not that can have an effect on which bacterias are comfortable. etc. So yeah, i dont think that discovery proves that stress is not a factor in ulcers.
Thomas Borody used triple therapy against Helicobacter pylori, a major cause of ulcer.
Hmmm, I caught the turtle island reference, good.
There is not a singular entity that cause ulcer.
I lichen this very much, moss definitely.
One fungus, one algae was the view they had on lichens? I don't think so as they seem too smart to be stuck in that outdated idea. It has been known for decades that this was not true. For example, the lichen Lobaria pulmonaria has been known for many years to be a partnership of a fungus, a green algae, and a cyanobacteria. And never once did National Geographic mention that the third organism in the horsehair lichens (Bryoria) was a yeast which is also the culprit that makes yellow horsehair lichens toxic.
Gary Walton - Thanks for the extra information!
Isn't yeast is just a specific type of fungus?
Yes but they never mentioned it in the video, they just pretend like they discovered sliced bread while everyone's already making toast!
I was going to mention Lobaria Pulmonaria and Cetraria Islandica lol.
PromiseRW
Yep, yeasts are a type of fungi but belong the division Basidiomycota while the main fungal partner in this and most other lichens is in the division Ascomycota. The major difference between the two divisions has to do with how spores are formed. There are a few lichens that have a basidio fungus partner but these aren't accepted as "real" lichens by all lichenologists. One, which I was lucky enough to see a few years ago, is Lichenomphalia.
I wish the video talked more about the lichen. Did they figure out the function of the asco fungus and the basidio fungus?
so it turns out that it wasnt just fungus and algae, but rather it was fungus and algae
HOW COULD THEY HAVE BEEN SO WRONG????
:)))
Fungus+ fungus + algea
Two entirely different phyla of fungi.
Yeah - I agree. Took us right up to the big reveal about the third fungi and then --------- nothing! Give us the rest of the story guys!
@@songraoshinde5880 right! 2/3rds fungus and one part algea? So what is lichen.? Salt plus pepper plus oregano = spice?
Easily my favorite organisms ever. I live on a river, with a large rock overlooking the falls. There has to be just about every lixhen possible. Theyre all so alien and beautiufl at the same time. Ive tried and had various levels of success in keeping it in terrariums. Its truly stunning.
We do miniature moss & lichen terrariums, too. They really are a great addition to any interior garden!
That's the beauty of science, it has no problem admitting it's mistakes and open to rectification.
Yeah just like Fauci.
well its more like that's the beauty of any objective study. scientists face all the problems we do, but because they stick to a method of verification through testing generally everyone's worse impulses are held accountable and things can pivot when new information comes up as people stick to the methods.
IF you notice any area where science meets politics, you will find the exact opposite. A complete inability to pivot or adjust narratives to data and a general escalation in the direction of the political. Politics thankfully cannot hold it back forever. But when people have the power to pass false data as real data and the system makes it too difficult to actually run the required tests. There are huge problems.
@@josephvictory9536 Very eloquently stated.
Apparently there is more to be studied before lichenology is ready to explain itself in more detail. Interesting to see so much curiosity on the subject. There should be more resources to help explain this phenomenon because it most certainly has clues and answers to bigger riddles in the process of life. Makes me wonder what kind of medicine we might be missing out on.
More meds than you think of are out there thriving in untouched areas
You claim these chaps have discovered something revolutionary about the biology of lichens but then explain virtually nothing about it. That's pretty useless unless this is just the trailer for a full length documentary.
agreed. I wish it is more in-depth.
they discovered that there are two fungus' (fungi ?) in symbiosis with the algae, instead of just one fungus
Which is the main point and really the only relevant part to the laymen anyway.
They checked the genes of the one part, which was identical, and the color was due to the other, unaccounted for part.
is this all lichens? or just the horse hairs? if it's all lichens then it would be truly surprising that everyone would have missed it. Its kind of suggested this is the case in some places, but then again, it would be quite hard to demonstrate, and other bits suggest it was just that one species.
yeah David, thats what they said...did you not finish watching the video??
I bought four acres with lots of little lichen covered knolls. I have done my best to preserve them through construction. I would love to learn all the different types, and any medicinal uses. They are all beautiful.
When did this discovery take place? I was taught, about 15 years ago, that lichen could be up to three kingdoms: Fungi, Protista, and Monera. Which textbooks were saying one fungi and one algae? Based on the lessons I got it never even occurred to me it was a 1+1 mix per lichen. Maybe I was a bad student and didn't listen to the details.
What course did you study lichens? Im intrigued
@@devilsolution9781 In an ecology class offered at Lincoln University in New Zealand. It was sometime around 2006-2008.
@@steelonius ahhb very cool thanks for the response bruder
I'm just a regular person with an interest in science. When this news about the second fungus came out, I was so excited that I told lots of people. They mostly looked at me blankly, but i'm still excited to this day!
Not only did learn a lot of random facts bout lichen and how to say the word I found out where the word symbiosis came from
Yung Afrika now if you could just learn to spell. Lol. It was informative though.
the word "symbiosis" did not form because of lichen.
Fluke what does the video say at 3:30?
Good point well made, thanks Boco Corwin.
Out of all the videos I've watched today, this was the only one I wished was longer.
Can the fungi and algae live separately? And if so can you introduce one to the other and make them form a symbiote?
They can't live separately. It's a permanent association
If I understand it correctly recent research showed that there might be many more contributing organisms for the lichens to grow. Not only these three.
Perhaps NG can do an updated, and even more in-depth (?), video about this?
More please! This is beautiful and fascinating. I think the discovery just shows us that we are too easily satisfied with scientific explanations and don't look further. Science needs to be always challenging it's own theories.
Reminds me of the book "Trouble With Lichen" by John Wyndham. The plot concerns a young female biochemist who discovers that a chemical extracted from an unusual strain of lichen can be used to slow down the ageing process, enabling people to live to around 200-300 years. Wyndham speculates how society would deal with this prospect.
Short and sweet. So short that the video couldn't be bothered to explain HOW the third member of the lichen symbiosis was discovered. What was the process?!
Did you know that one lichen , is used in the perfume industry , as a "fixer" -. It stops other aromas from dropping out .
If I could give this a 1000 thumbs up I would! - yes - its amazing what happens when someone looks more closely at common held beliefs. That's what makes science so amazing 150 years can go by and new proof is found and we build on it bit by bit. - great job!
My dad always says “Well, you can’t argue with science!” And I always respond “YES YOU CAN THATS THE WHOLE POINT”.
Lichens seem like such a mundane life form but they really are beautiful. I used to collect them for a fire belly toad terrarium.
I like lichens. They seem interesting to me. Luckily my tree outside has it. Hopefully my bonsai will one day too
We have been eating lichens , one of its type found in lower region of himalayas.Its been passed from generation to generation.
The first rule of science: IT'S NEVER THAT SIMPLE.
I always thought it was the opposite. Normally the simplest answer tends to be the right one.
@@carlospentes7436 that 'simplest is probably the right one' idea is soooo over used, and is NOT at all the likely correct answer for many many things.
Science in general does not support the simplest, that is a lazy man's construct.
Just because you add knowledge to something doesn’t make it wrong previously. The original premise wasn’t wrong, they just added more information. Adding potatoes to a stew doesn’t mean it wasn’t a stew in the first place.
I was on a walk the other day and discovered a very interesting lichen I had never seen before. I started to think about what exactly lichen were. I knew it wasn't just a plant but wondered what it really was. They seem almost like an animal to me, like coral. And then TH-cam recommends this and now I have something new to obsess over for a bit. I love science and Nature is where it's at.
Fun fact: corals are animals
That's what the person you replied to said
Here in Nepal, we eat short haired black lichen which grows on some specific tress only...just like the native Americans... But we cook it with pork and its blood mixed...tastes great...and its a medicine too...
Symbiosis? Always knew this was the critical part of biology. About time we understood the role of this in our lives. When we successfully explain how mitochondria (energy producing engines of each cell), thought to have once been independently living single cell organisms, became so thoroughly incorporated into cell physiology, it will be apparent we have actually learned something. We are interdependent, not independent.
And we also have parasitic Fungus which thrive on Human Flesh!
I'm suddenly inspired to re-read John Wyndham's 'The Trouble With Lichen'
That guy loves lichen so much he has it growing out of his head
So, not one fungus and an algae, but TWO fungi and an algae. I love the lifestyles of the dedicated. Also: symbiosis might be used to describe lichen but was invented a looong time ago by the Greeks.
Fascinating! I've been an avid amateur mycologist (known as a funguy) for almost 50 years and they never cease to amaze.
From the pervasive communication and nutrient transportation network beneath our feet to the apparently intelligent common slime mold, 'SpongeBob SquarePants'-yellow Physarum polycephalum' (Brain? BRAIN?! We don't need no stinkin' brains!).
Biologists currently classify slime molds as protists, a taxonomic group reserved for "everything we don't really understand'.
Reminds me like that "big tree" in Avatar the movie... everything connected.
Literally just read about this in Entangled Life. Mind-boggling!
Who would have guessed? ! How exciting! I need to go and read up on this. Basidiomycetes! I'm surprised though that no one picked it up sooner, because the cell structure in hyphae of Ascomycetes and Basidiomycetes is different.
It may be 9 degrees F but I'm still finding new lichens for my mini-forest tank. It's actually surprising how quickly they'll get color back and grow with a few squirts of water a day. Smell so fresh too.
Gorgeous lichens. Intriguing intro to the topic of the triad of lichen components. Thanks!
Even though video is 5 years old I happen to watch it today...
note to the reader: please let me know what more new things we found out in these 5 years
The most interesting video I've seen on lichen all day!
This is why I valued the teachers I had the last few years of high school. I went to a private school where the teachers were retired college professors. The world and history and all that’s in it was fluid, so we were taught What is today may not be tomorrow as we build upon our knowledge. we can learn about today and yesterday, but forgetting to ask questions, and then seeking answers it turns into a stag pool. Continuing to ask questions, finding the answers can change everything that we thought we had once known. This is why knowledge is fluid. The emphasis on our education, the last few years, at the school, under the total age of college professors, thinking, processing information, and adding to what we already know, whereas what we already know, was taught as a foundation. A foundation is very important because you can’t change what you do not know.
The ability to analyze DNA has changed many things we used to believe
There are also lichens that incorporate blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) instead of green algae and those that incorporate both green and blue-green algae, also making for three partners.
So, a lichen actually two fungi and an alga, as opposed to one fungus and an alga. Totally mind-blowing.
Tell me more.
omg... finally this guy got featured in a video. He is the legend
Click bait!
They didnt 'get it wrong', they just learned something new that in no regard invalidates the established understanding.
Most science has only been developed around the times of the Renaissance so most things that we do know for fact initiated around that period.
-yes it does
-They made word sym*BI*osis, literally to describe Lichen. Now they learned that it was not two different organisms that made up Lichen, but rather three different organisms.
-So yes, they got it wrong because we've always thought that it was two organisms only, not three. That is a significant difference.
yeah, like how biology refers to the study of only two living things. After all, biographies are always about two people.
Something Seems Off - The Bi you're thinking of is a Latin prefix meaning "Two," while the Bi in Symbiosis comes from the Greek word Bios, meaning "Life."
John Dee
citation needed*
TLDR: there's another fungus also present.
This guy looks like he's been smokin' lichens.
Likin' the lichens.
Can you do that?
@@jonathonfrazier6622 I’m curious about that too.
Strange you should mention that... there is a recipe going around for making DMT*, a potent psychedelic, from a species of lichen and smoking it. I kid you not.
*more commonly made from plants by indigenous South American Shaman or by milking toads in Arizona.
We live in a hardwood forest in southern Indiana and I have often wondered why it is that lichen prefer deciduous trees and rarely, if ever, propagate coniferous trees. This video has rekindled my interest to further research on this aspect of lichen. Thanks!
Lichens are all over firs and conifers here in the NW.
@@bozo5632 Wow! That’s different- furthering the mystery…
Got to love some this scientific discoveries. "We were wrong, there's more fungus in here".
"Keeping an open mind" is the essence of using science to understand reality.
This is odd because I remember being taught in high school in the early 80s that it was two fungi and an algae.
Mandela Effect.
@@andybaldman he was in prison at the time so I don't think he told me
@@smallfox2 That's not what the Mandela Effect is.
@@andybaldman I realise but I also remember. Of course, memory isn't always reliable. I do remember being told that in science class and thinking it was pretty cool. Maybe our teacher had hidden knowledge
Sorry, I don't get this. We've known (for 150 yrs) that Lichens are defined by a symbiosis between algae and fungi. "Certain" lichens have a third component (another fungus) in the mix. How does that upend what we've known for 150 years?
Because "science".
"Science" admits when it's wrong, unlike all those religious fanatics out there.
All hale scientism!
why do i feel so oddly emotional that the word symbiosis was invented for lichen :') they are such special bois
I was just talking about lichens the other day and I’m glad to say that My highschool memories where not forgotten as much as I thought.
So I've been curious when hiking in the NW Oregon woods here. I love to take lichen photography too and I'm so captivated by moss, lichen, fungi. So all those are creating a microcosm type ecosystem within the layers of the forest, on fallen and living trees, stumps, rocks, etc. I'd be really interested in hearing a lot about this microcosm of nature because some look like Dr. Seuss came up with them? Some look like old man's beard, or pieces of lettuce, cups, puzzle pieces, trumpets, all types of textures and colors and I feel like there is a vast amount of depth of info that's going on to create how these lichen find ways to find complex forms of expressions while also tying into their surroundings because they live in symbiosis with their environment. I'm just facinated by them. Truly. I am.
Oa
Simply breathtaking!
When does it turn into a werewolf?
when you ring a Bela lot
Nice! I totally forgot about that until your joke. I kept thinking it sounded familiar lol
i came across lichen on a field trip in some mountains up in Killarney,Ireland and have been absolutly fasinated eversince !! this video got me so excieted to see the lab and environemtn they were working in
Okay but how did scientists miss the third species? What made it so hard to observe??
This guy must’ve been a lichen in past lives. Collecting them makes him nostalgic.
Dont dive into the shallow end of the pool. You'll break your neck.
Maybe some other channel actually has something to say about this 3rd symbiote, and its impact on the lichen.
Cool short vid. 40min version next would be awesome!
Nice video. Pretty sure some of the things mentioned are known for many years like the fact that lichens are more than a pair of partners but I am not here for this. The word simbioseswas definitely NOT invented by anyone to describe lichens . It is a Greek word. Συμβίωση, derived συν (plus )+ βιώνω (living in a situation, experiencing) . It means living with (others or something). When in doubt, ask a greek. Do not assume...
Science is the way to go. Discovering our world with our agency instead of following pre-made instructions (with different versions).
I'm lichen this alot
Wiliam Banquiter waiting for a comment like this.
Brilliant! We’re only scratching the surface.
So glad to find this video, since up to that second, I still believed the one-fungus,one-alga theory taught me 60+ years ago. Big grin for confirming how _little_ we know, and how much _more_ opportunity there is to do my favorite thing: LEARN!
I smoked some twice when I was younger and interested in natural highs - both times were very nice with a definite pan-psychism element until I drank some alchohol, after which I felt utterly poisoned and seriously thought I might die. I never got round to trying a third time without any alchohol.....
Very interesting, thanks guys! :))
jeez i hate people that say guys
Why can't they be this open and honest about the science continually changing around COVID?
science changes. and that's why I love it. no absolutes
Sounds better than religion.
love science, prefer religion
Fathan mubina why?
I'm no wizard, but somebody give this guy some absolutes
HERESY!!!
Love your camera rig!
💚
As i remember, the third part to lichen was some kind of bacteria?
Well, the video suggests it's another kind of fungus (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basidiomycota) at 2:36, as far as I understand it, anyway…
Jirka Bolech my fault, lichen arises from algae OR cyanobacteria in symbiosis with fungi.
Nice video, glad I was able to "absorb" some knowledge.
I saw this video popping up yesterday, just hours before my biology/botany-exam. I decided to wait until today since the outdated definition from my textbook would be the only right answer on my exam ;)
Exactly. As Max Planck said, "Science progresses one funeral at a time". Until the next textbook is printed your exam answer would be pseudoscience. That's why scientific proofs are always expedient and conditional, except in the exam room.
VeganBackpacking - You're going to the wrong school. This isn't exactly bleeding-edge science.
Lichens returning to an area that has been destroyed by fires or volcanic eruptions is used by scientists as a good indicator that the ecosystem is recovering.
now i see why 45 peeps disliked. Obnoxious music at the end.
I loved learning about Lichen but bro you tried so hard to frame this as way bigger then it is. This is a lovely expansion on our understanding of Lichen, not proving the world wrong.
Encore!! It is too short, love these guys! 😘
Thanks for posting this very interesting short vid
Imagine what else science has wrong that we still believe to be true to this day.
I love lichen! They are such fascinating creatures.
I’ve always said Lichen is basically a “land coral”- & now knowing that it’s an algae living in symbiosis with another organism, tells me a I’ve been correct 😂
I mean, you arent totally wrong. Corals are a combination of the coral body(a Cniderian) and an algae (zooxanthellae)
2 years ago,viruses were also linked in the formation of lichens. So it is many species in 1 body.
when i first heard about vampires fighting lichens i thought it was bizarre and then discovered it was short for lycanthropes :-)
glad i'm not the only one whose brain went there- it's a hilarious mental image
His hair is like a Lichen.
This grows on the ground with no roots in a few areas where we live. Light green flat sheet like rolled tube shape with branching off different ways. Size; 1"x 1" up to 4" x 4" x 1".
N.E. Arizona, Apache County, Witch Well, 85936
Just goes to show you, there's no such thing as "settled science." Things can always change, understanding can always potentially be improved. Always be careful when you hear the term "settled science" bandied about, which is especially relevant in these times.
I have used the brown Lichen for starting fire with Flint and Steel. It hold the smallest spark very well. That has been my experience when starting fires in a primitive method.
And it still would have made a better president than Trump.
Rudolph Pascual 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes,he is sadly a big fool.God please help America.
I think his hair is lichen.,..
He has done more for this country than the past 3 presidents,admit it you demonrat weasels
Really interesting that this wasn't discovered for so long, because nobody was looking for it. Makes me think an entire shadow biosphere could exist that hasn't been discovered, because nobody is looking for it (in the correct place)
This wasn't discovered for so long, because nobody cared.
@@1pcfred After you found something why should you keep looking? After all it was only when additional information came along in the form of dna analysis that they realised that something was being overlooked. If they had the dna analysis 150 years ago and did nothing about it then you could make the claim that no one cared.
Huh. I don't understand why they're describing the previously held idea about lichens as totally wrong. Perhaps I'm not fully understanding, but it seems more as if it was largely correct, but lacked one element. It's still a symbiosis, it's merely a more complex one than it was previously understood to be.
National Geographic: Great video; thanks. The cute background sound loops are distracting, however, for those who want to give your content their full attention. This is partly due to the brain having to process two sound data streams at the same time. You may want to further explore this interesting subject, particularly as it affects your audience -- emphasis on the audio.
I had learned that lichen is partnering between algae and fungus. I have never heard it was strictly 1 fungus and 1 algae. And frankly that seems a stupid thing to be caught up on.
The nice thing about science is that it's fascinating and new when you discover mistakes. When people make mistakes in religion, and get found out, the whole thing comes apart, and you have to start all over...