and robin, damn, too many smart people posting great videos, thank you all, so much better than tv, cut the cord thanks to you all and haven't looked back
Wes, I haven’t any idea what your working on but anyone with any common sense should realize your one hell of a long way to what’s considered a mechanic. I find your videos great information, not to mention your sarcasm. I’m here in central Illinois just south of Champaign so I’m very familiar with the problems of Illinois weather. Lee Bretzlaff
@@WatchWesWork I believe I saw you selling this tool on practical machinist? Have you moved on to other things? I thought it was a very clever design and I will copy it instead of using a tube.
This video concludes my binge watching of the entire Watch Wes Work back catalog. It’s been a ride. Wes, I know you’ll probably never see this comment, because that’s how TH-cam notifications be, but your change in tone has been interesting. Your earliest videos are quite didactic, interesting nonetheless, but in your newer stuff you let your cynicism and wit shine and it really helps lighten the mood. I’m looking forward to what you have up your sleeve next. Maybe in another 4 years you’ll be rebuilding jet engines or restoring electron microscopes.
Nice job on the machine design elements, it looks like they made the assembly easy. From what you describe with the original version of the tool your 2 piece design for the tube looks like a big improvement.
Good job Wes. Thanks for taking the time to share that. I like the way you made that ball joint I've been thinking on the easiest way to make those. I'll consider that design.
I tried buying a swivel foot but it was really crusty and not suitable for a precision tool. Mine's more complicated to build, but simpler to use than the original King Way.
It never occurred to me to buy them. I just seen them on ebay after reading your response. Maybe the easiest way for my project is to buy them. I have a natural talent for doing everything the hard way. Thanks again
Very well done Wes ,simple and looks to be a very useful tool. I am currently rebuilding my south bend and sure could use one. As it is I have to learn to scrape!!! That said if you could supply a drawing in pdf format or another common form it would greatly benefit me as I am approaching 70, I don’t have much time to figure out , let alone build them so a drawing would greatly help. If you want to sell the drawing or the tool let me know, as I said I would greatly appreciate it. I love the way you considered building a tool that works on small v ways like south bend. Thank you very much for any help in this. Bill
The point you make at 15:53 .. love it .. reminds me of when I read "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" and it clicked about making a perfectly flat reference from 3 plates and from that you can make perfect 90' angle plates etc .. it's all about the reference surfaces.
Rebuilding is more about measuring than anything else. The Connely book has one short chapter on actually scraping. The rest of the book is about measuring and order of operations.
Good stuff man. I also just built my version of the king way. I got to study one in person at one of Richard's classes, and I went ahead and made the tube out of 4140 HT like the original, but now I may copy your design for the foot rest. Cheers!
@@WatchWesWorkOne of these days there will be a part 2 of this video. One day that Lagun will get scraped, and you will blow the minds of everyone when you show them how to use this thing. I have been waiting sooooo long! I love all the stuff you do, but I miss the machining days. Hell, I'd come help you. I have taken Richard's class, have a few power scrapers, a power flaker, straight edges, my own version of the KingWay, the books, and I can contact Richard if we get stuck.
Been holding off making a variation Wes' when might part 2 be ready for our viewing pleasure :-) I share your view on the tube rest limitations - still trying to think of a simple solution with less pats than your fine example. All the best Mat
Very nicely done. You can download a copy of the original patented sketches for the Kingway Alignment tool. The slit tube foot can be mounted slit down or slit up.
I might would add some sort of positive stop feature to the adjustable base rods. Something like a threaded rod with trunions. It is critical that the distance between your rods with the ground bushings does not change during your measurements and it seems that a careless heavy touch could likely alter yours with only the friction from the lock handle holding against the long leverage from the arms to the ways. Otherwise looks great to me!
We'll have to see. There's a hell of a lot of clamping pressure there. I made a test jig before I built the actual tool. It takes something like 75ft-lbs to actually make the joint slip.
i had the similar thought but was wondering about the parelisem of the rods but thats testabble . this is the first kind way i have seen in any form . does any one have drawings of the oem type? this is a very well made tool and i'm certain it will work fine . good job man !!
I'm thinking the parallelism of the rods is "self-correcting", and that all that matters is that it remains stable. Four points on a prismatic way can only set in one place (given the ball rest on the other side) and it wouldn't matter if the front sat a little lower than the back or vice-versa; it would be consistent throughout a sweep and that's all that matters in this application.
well if there were only 3 points of contact id agree with you but there are 4 so what is to stop it rocking to the foth point and leading to a error . i'm sure this is why the original used a precision grown surface for the contact points. there's a lot of parts that can move here
I think I read somewhere that Richard King said he thought there had been less than 2000 King Way tools sold in the 50+ years since it was invented. It's a very small market and it's actively shrinking. The tool look simple, but it takes a lot of time to make it and the material are pricey. I doubt I could sell them. But, if people want to copy it, I'm all for it.
Very good, thoughtful work- excellent actually (and you are so young!). No doubt that you will do very well and be very successful,...hopefully you will find the time to make more video about your modifications of this device. Will you use two crossed vials? I realize that you have already done far more than most people- (many of us contribute nothing except complaining). Thank you, Mr Johnson I appreciate very much your contributions! -Rov
Nice redesign on the horizontal guide bar. I'm also collecting parts for mine. I'll be interested in what you use for levels I looked into the Geier & Bluhm 20sec/division. A little pricey. And the ones Richard had we're nicer than what they offer now. Also, the ring under the ball was just a big inner ball bearing race. Really like your approach on things. Keep it up.
I picked a Wyler cross test level for my build (reasonably priced eBay find). It has easy mounting locations and three good points to jack on to level it with the carrier I make for it locked to the rod. It's also already mounted vials and far more compact than the original. Only half as accurate (0.001"/foot), but you could got for similar the size of the original and buy up a size in cross test level for the original's accuracy. In the alternative, there are some damn nice looking pre-mounted vials from China these days. Not sure how you could test that they meet their theoretical spec, but worth thinking about.
I have seen them. I could live with the accuracy, but the vials have only 3 or 4 graduations and then you're off the scale. We'll have to wait and see which direction I go.
Thanks for this, building a king way is a upcoming project for me. I wonder if you will end up liking/hating the single knob adjust after some use. I would love a parts list or diagram.
We'll have to see. It would be very easy to make it work with two knobs. Just thread the middle of the clamp block and have the stud stick out on either side. I had designed it that way originally, but this is simpler and a little cheaper.
Patiently looking forward to Part Two of the Wes Way tool now that the weather is turning. Sorry, but Johnson Way doesn't have quite the same ring to it!
Nice piece of work. Your improvements are definite improvements not mere changes: they actually address and remedy shortcomings in the original design. Hurry up with the levels. I want to see how you attacked the fine adjust problem.
Wes Johnson Geier and Bluhm have a website shed they sell mounted vials graduated down to 5 arc seconds. Not too expensive and they sell the posts and adjusting nuts.
How well does it brake down for transport? Will you need a special case? How long does it take to assemble and calibrate for service? It does look like something I could use, nice design.
It's been a year! I suspect these things come easily to you, so they don't hold your interest. I sure would like to see PART 2 incorporating the vials / levels. Thanks
Super awesome Wes! Do you notice more hysteresis in the setup than what's in the indicator itself? Meaning, does the reading at a given point change very much when you arrive there sliding in one direction than it does if you approach the point from the other side (sliding in the opposite direction)?
Have you found the 6" foot to be too long? Thinking about making my own attempt at this but probably would want a smaller foot to be able to sample a greater range of shorter ways.
Hi Wes, I thought you might want to check out this level mounting idea, about halfway down the page: metalscraping.com/w2-Preview.html. The basic idea is that the level vial is mounted on a base that pivots by way of a micrometer head, such that you can get a direct-ish reading of the relative droop at a certain spot by just re-leveling the vial and reading the micrometer head. Not necessarily a good idea in this case, but maybe grist for the mil :)
I saw a King Way clone on the practical machinist forum made just the same way not long ago. It was a little more clumsy, but the same idea. I have a similar concept in mind. Thanks!
* I believe it's "Yugoslobvian" ? :p Nice design & execution , Wes ! I'm looking forward to the various uses . "If one is to ere, it's best to err on the side of perfection ! " Another fave, : " If you cannot make it accurate, at LEAST make it adjustable ! " (the above typo was on purpose)
In testing a lathe why not let the ball ride on the only surface that has no wear, the machined surface in between the back inverted v where the tailstock rides on and the flat the saddle rides on?
On most lathes, that is not a precision ground surface. Normally, that surface has been milled to give some clearance for the grinding process, but is very rough. Sometimes you can use the top of the inverted V way if the bed was crush ground with a form wheel (common on smaller lathes).
Yes. The tool is used to measure that wear. So, we could scrape the tailstock ways straight, then use them to measure the carriage ways and then scrape them to be straight and parallel to the tailstock ways.
If you can import it into Fusion 360, they have a built-in sharing capability. I could potentially help produce some proper drawings using the model in Fusion 360 (they have a stupid simple drawing/dimensioning capability).
have to say, between you, Brian an tony, I learn tons from your videos. thank you putting time and effort into providing engaging content.
I'm glad someone likes it.
and Stephan, his video and machine work is top notch from my layman perspective as well
and robin, damn, too many smart people posting great videos, thank you all, so much better than tv, cut the cord thanks to you all and haven't looked back
Wes, I haven’t any idea what your working on but anyone with any common sense should realize your one hell of a long way to what’s considered a mechanic. I find your videos great information, not to mention your sarcasm. I’m here in central Illinois just south of Champaign so I’m very familiar with the problems of Illinois weather. Lee Bretzlaff
Can't wait to see the follow-up too! Great video Wes. Thanks for sharing it.
Should be coming soon.
@@WatchWesWork I believe I saw you selling this tool on practical machinist? Have you moved on to other things? I thought it was a very clever design and I will copy it instead of using a tube.
@@WatchWesWork Hey Wes did you ever release that 2nd video? Can't find it on your channel
Your version of the Kingway tool is very nice love the Swingable Cameras Accessory arm you used @Watch Wes Work
Wow, this is the info on scraping I have been looking for. Thank you so much for sharing.
Very clever replacement to the original tube design and I like the added capability your improved King-Way gives. Kudos to you, Wes!
Cheers, Gary
Hopefully it works as I hope.
improvement means its a patentable idea right lol
by the way did you ever finish yours gary
Well it's been publicly disclosed now, so we can kiss that patent goodbye...
Wes Johnson not really you just have a time limit from now tell you apply. Doesn't sound like you are looking to do that but door is not closed
great job wes i love your design of the adjustable foot. simple looking design but takes a clever fella to come up with it.
And if we are lucky, it might even work.
Very, very impressive. Nice work Wes.
Great design improvements, appreciate you sharing it!
This video concludes my binge watching of the entire Watch Wes Work back catalog. It’s been a ride. Wes, I know you’ll probably never see this comment, because that’s how TH-cam notifications be, but your change in tone has been interesting. Your earliest videos are quite didactic, interesting nonetheless, but in your newer stuff you let your cynicism and wit shine and it really helps lighten the mood. I’m looking forward to what you have up your sleeve next. Maybe in another 4 years you’ll be rebuilding jet engines or restoring electron microscopes.
You're a trooper!
Wow I'm impressed by your design. impressive
Nice job on the machine design elements, it looks like they made the assembly easy. From what you describe with the original version of the tool your 2 piece design for the tube looks like a big improvement.
Good job Wes. Thanks for taking the time to share that. I like the way you made that ball joint
I've been thinking on the easiest way to make those. I'll consider that design.
I tried buying a swivel foot but it was really crusty and not suitable for a precision tool. Mine's more complicated to build, but simpler to use than the original King Way.
It never occurred to me to buy them. I just seen them on ebay after reading your response.
Maybe the easiest way for my project is to buy them.
I have a natural talent for doing everything the hard way. Thanks again
Nice, I like it. Good design.
Thanks!
Hey Wes. Did you ever do a follow up to this? I'd love to build one of these myself.
Very well done Wes ,simple and looks to be a very useful tool. I am currently rebuilding my south bend and sure could use one. As it is I have to learn to scrape!!! That said if you could supply a drawing in pdf format or another common form it would greatly benefit me as I am approaching 70, I don’t have much time to figure out , let alone build them so a drawing would greatly help. If you want to sell the drawing or the tool let me know, as I said I would greatly appreciate it. I love the way you considered building a tool that works on small v ways like south bend. Thank you very much for any help in this. Bill
The point you make at 15:53 .. love it .. reminds me of when I read "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" and it clicked about making a perfectly flat reference from 3 plates and from that you can make perfect 90' angle plates etc .. it's all about the reference surfaces.
Rebuilding is more about measuring than anything else. The Connely book has one short chapter on actually scraping. The rest of the book is about measuring and order of operations.
I came back for a fresher on your design of this tool
Very interesting video Wes.
Wes, Very nice work again. Lever handles are a nice touch.
_Dan_
Those levers are really nice, but a bit pricey. I wanted to be sure I could get them tight so the foot didn't move around.
Good stuff man. I also just built my version of the king way. I got to study one in person at one of Richard's classes, and I went ahead and made the tube out of 4140 HT like the original, but now I may copy your design for the foot rest. Cheers!
I'll give it a good shake down and give a report on how well it works.
I like that all your videos are of super street fighter
Ha, thanks! I used to be pretty into it. Times change though.
@@WatchWesWorkOne of these days there will be a part 2 of this video. One day that Lagun will get scraped, and you will blow the minds of everyone when you show them how to use this thing. I have been waiting sooooo long! I love all the stuff you do, but I miss the machining days.
Hell, I'd come help you. I have taken Richard's class, have a few power scrapers, a power flaker, straight edges, my own version of the KingWay, the books, and I can contact Richard if we get stuck.
Thanks for the great video Wes! I really enjoyed it!
I see this as so SIMPLY GENIUS
I still like your idea
When I get time I’ll build one
Very cool! Brilliant design!
Quality doesn't have to be complicated or unreasonably expensive, if you supply the elbow grease. Top shelf build of the Wes Way tool! :-)
Yes. Plus building things is fun.
Nicely done Wes!
ATB, Robin
Thanks Robin!
now this is high prase right here
Been holding off making a variation Wes' when might part 2 be ready for our viewing pleasure :-)
I share your view on the tube rest limitations - still trying to think of a simple solution with less pats than your fine example. All the best Mat
I like this Wes . I have got to build one . use on my machines.Thanks for sharing.
You should. It's not difficult, just time consuming.
Very nicely done. You can download a copy of the original patented sketches for the Kingway Alignment tool. The slit tube foot can be mounted slit down or slit up.
vary nice, Wes i like your use of spherical washers Thanks,ron
I try to always use them under a clamping element.
I'm in the process of making one now. Nice job.
I just saw one identical to that on Sunday! ;-) Good job, love the design.
Weird. I wonder how that happened...
very nice design, thanks for sharing
I might would add some sort of positive stop feature to the adjustable base rods. Something like a threaded rod with trunions. It is critical that the distance between your rods with the ground bushings does not change during your measurements and it seems that a careless heavy touch could likely alter yours with only the friction from the lock handle holding against the long leverage from the arms to the ways. Otherwise looks great to me!
We'll have to see. There's a hell of a lot of clamping pressure there. I made a test jig before I built the actual tool. It takes something like 75ft-lbs to actually make the joint slip.
Heh. I meant 75in-lbs. And that's times two. I think it should be as rigid as the other joints in the assembly. I guess we'll find out!
i had the similar thought but was wondering about the parelisem of the rods but thats testabble . this is the first kind way i have seen in any form . does any one have drawings of the oem type? this is a very well made tool and i'm certain it will work fine . good job man !!
I'm thinking the parallelism of the rods is "self-correcting", and that all that matters is that it remains stable. Four points on a prismatic way can only set in one place (given the ball rest on the other side) and it wouldn't matter if the front sat a little lower than the back or vice-versa; it would be consistent throughout a sweep and that's all that matters in this application.
well if there were only 3 points of contact id agree with you but there are 4 so what is to stop it rocking to the foth point and leading to a error . i'm sure this is why the original used a precision grown surface for the contact points. there's a lot of parts that can move here
at least you could get out of your head and make it real! I think you could sale a lot of them .it's nice of you to share your plans .great job
I think I read somewhere that Richard King said he thought there had been less than 2000 King Way tools sold in the 50+ years since it was invented. It's a very small market and it's actively shrinking. The tool look simple, but it takes a lot of time to make it and the material are pricey. I doubt I could sell them. But, if people want to copy it, I'm all for it.
Way to take things up a notch. Great job.
I don't know about up, maybe over a notch.
Very good, thoughtful work- excellent actually (and you are so young!). No doubt that you will do very well and be very successful,...hopefully you will find the time to make more video about your modifications of this device. Will you use two crossed vials? I realize that you have already done far more than most people- (many of us contribute nothing except complaining). Thank you, Mr Johnson I appreciate very much your contributions! -Rov
thanks for sharing. looking forward to seeing it in action.
Nice redesign on the horizontal guide bar. I'm also collecting parts for mine. I'll be interested in what you use for levels
I looked into the Geier & Bluhm 20sec/division. A little pricey. And the ones Richard had we're nicer than what they offer now. Also, the ring under the ball was just a big inner ball bearing race. Really like your approach on things. Keep it up.
The Geier Bluhms are probably the most convenient. I'm still debating it.
I picked a Wyler cross test level for my build (reasonably priced eBay find). It has easy mounting locations and three good points to jack on to level it with the carrier I make for it locked to the rod. It's also already mounted vials and far more compact than the original. Only half as accurate (0.001"/foot), but you could got for similar the size of the original and buy up a size in cross test level for the original's accuracy. In the alternative, there are some damn nice looking pre-mounted vials from China these days. Not sure how you could test that they meet their theoretical spec, but worth thinking about.
I have seen them. I could live with the accuracy, but the vials have only 3 or 4 graduations and then you're off the scale. We'll have to wait and see which direction I go.
I'll be interested to see. I haven't seen you do anything that wasn't pretty seriously well thought out, so I'm looking forward to it. 👍
Great video , clear and concise thank you
Hi Great tool, a good old handmade thumbs up to you, would love to have one to check and adjust my lathe and mill. all the best.
I like it, Looks great! Thumbs up
Thanks Steve!
Wishing we had got part 2, any chance of that happening?
Nice mods Richard should be proud of you :)
Did part 2 get deleted? Or is it ‘still in production’? This was a very good video, thanks!
Thanks for this, building a king way is a upcoming project for me. I wonder if you will end up liking/hating the single knob adjust after some use. I would love a parts list or diagram.
We'll have to see. It would be very easy to make it work with two knobs. Just thread the middle of the clamp block and have the stud stick out on either side. I had designed it that way originally, but this is simpler and a little cheaper.
It's always nice when someone else does the experiment for you. It will be interesting to see this in use.
Patiently looking forward to Part Two of the Wes Way tool now that the weather is turning. Sorry, but Johnson Way doesn't have quite the same ring to it!
bruh. i been watchin you videos. you da man!
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
Brilliant!
Excellent.
Nice piece of work. Your improvements are definite improvements not mere changes: they actually address and remedy shortcomings in the original design.
Hurry up with the levels. I want to see how you attacked the fine adjust problem.
In theory, yes. We will have to see how it actually works. I ordered the vials, but it may be a while before part 2.
Wes Johnson Geier and Bluhm have a website shed they sell mounted vials graduated down to 5 arc seconds. Not too expensive and they sell the posts and adjusting nuts.
Calling Dr. Johnson. Brian Bloc has a glass scale question over on his channel. Might be in your wheel house of wacky machine repair.
How well does it brake down for transport? Will you need a special case? How long does it take to assemble and calibrate for service? It does look like something I could use, nice design.
You can break it down enough to fit in a tool box in just a few seconds. The level vials are delicate, but the rest is pretty tough.
What happened to part 2?
Excellent. Subscribed
Thanks for sharing!
Awesome now I want to make one
You can. It's pretty simple.
yes indeed i have several 100 year old machines looking to get rebuilt
It's been a year! I suspect these things come easily to you, so they don't hold your interest. I sure would like to see PART 2 incorporating the vials / levels. Thanks
Time flies I guess! I do have a project for this tool, so maybe I will finish it up before I tackle it.
Awesome, I want one but the real King Way prices are stupid
Yes. Mine was not exactly cheap to build though. By the time I am done, the materials alone will be over $300.
The first ebay sold price I see is $1500 plus $600 shipping.
I think he was asking over $3000 for a new one.
You should have registered it. It’s a good design. And you have this down load dating it. So it would be hard for someone to patent it.
First class, yet again.
Thanks.
Super awesome Wes! Do you notice more hysteresis in the setup than what's in the indicator itself? Meaning, does the reading at a given point change very much when you arrive there sliding in one direction than it does if you approach the point from the other side (sliding in the opposite direction)?
I'm not sure yet. This is the first time I've ever put it together. I'm hoping it's heavy enough to be pretty solid.
Think we'll ever get a part two Wes or have you moved on since some of the machines have been sold?
Oh, one of these days. Probably when the snow flies, which isn't that far away.
Have you found the 6" foot to be too long? Thinking about making my own attempt at this but probably would want a smaller foot to be able to sample a greater range of shorter ways.
Subscribed!
Wes, if you're wondering why this video is getting a bunch more traffic, it was mentioned in one of @abom79's latest videos.
Looks legit.
Now you can make these worth keeping the Tree vmc ;-)
Nothing like a 50x25 VMC to make a part 3" long.
Could you release the dimensions of the pieces you cnc'd?
I saw this mentioned on another channel-Abom maybe?
very nice how long did that take to design
Way too long.
Hi Wes, I thought you might want to check out this level mounting idea, about halfway down the page: metalscraping.com/w2-Preview.html. The basic idea is that the level vial is mounted on a base that pivots by way of a micrometer head, such that you can get a direct-ish reading of the relative droop at a certain spot by just re-leveling the vial and reading the micrometer head. Not necessarily a good idea in this case, but maybe grist for the mil :)
I saw a King Way clone on the practical machinist forum made just the same way not long ago. It was a little more clumsy, but the same idea. I have a similar concept in mind. Thanks!
Pardon my French, but that is fanfuckingtastic!
That's not in my French phrase book.
* I believe it's "Yugoslobvian" ? :p Nice design & execution , Wes !
I'm looking forward to the various uses . "If one is to ere, it's best to err on the side of perfection ! " Another fave, : " If you cannot make it accurate, at LEAST make it adjustable ! " (the above typo was on purpose)
Hello, why is sviwel foot needed? Why not leave ball end there to get single point contact?
The foot helps to smooth the reading.
Where’s part two? I couldn’t find it.
It doesn't exist.
Thanks for the reply. Nice Work. I think I’ll copy your
design somewhat, but might put separate tightening
knobs on.
In testing a lathe why not let the ball ride on the only surface that has no wear, the machined surface in between the back inverted v where the tailstock rides on and the flat the saddle rides on?
On most lathes, that is not a precision ground surface. Normally, that surface has been milled to give some clearance for the grinding process, but is very rough. Sometimes you can use the top of the inverted V way if the bed was crush ground with a form wheel (common on smaller lathes).
bur surely the flat must be worn to some degree, how to account for that wear?
Yes. The tool is used to measure that wear. So, we could scrape the tailstock ways straight, then use them to measure the carriage ways and then scrape them to be straight and parallel to the tailstock ways.
ok , but how to get the tailstock way parrallel to the spindle?
Use the tool and measure to a test bar in the spindle.
Mooooaaaareee
Do you have any design docs or cad files?
I have a SolidWorks model. I will try to find a way to share it.
I'd appreciate PDF drawings
If you can import it into Fusion 360, they have a built-in sharing capability. I could potentially help produce some proper drawings using the model in Fusion 360 (they have a stupid simple drawing/dimensioning capability).
I would like PDF as well
Cheers
That would be awesome!
Do my eyes deceive me, or is that a BobCAD toolpath?
HSMWorks. It's just a rough and finish profile. About 50 lines of code.
This is a very graphic video.