Future reference on play does not beat a blockers timing. Blocking is When attacking speed so when marcus swings > Phas activates blocker successfully changing targets > greymon digivolves> Rizegreymon plays Marcus> Marcus taps> deletes Phas> Marcus attacking misses due to target being gone. Unlike Yugioh, there is no Replay in digimon so Marcus' attack does NOT go into security it just whiffs. Same ruling as with Crusader/Lordknight; on plays do not negate blockers when it comes to using blocker timing since Blocker timing is Only slower than when attacking and Counter timing. Even though Turn player takes priority, they cannot respond with a slower card speed. So, LK playing Knightmon does not allow LK to Attack security EVEN though the blocker would be deleted since blocker timing still happened changing LK target to the blocker instead of player before the digimon was deleted.
I'm not sure which interaction you're referring to in particular, but unless you're out of the loop Blocker timing got changed with the advent of Counter Timing/Blast Evolving. All of my effects trigger before a security would be removed or Battle would occur, this includes: "When Attacking" "When Digivolving" & "On Play". So which ever moment you're referring to probably has Bt13 Marcus dp reduce the blocker (from becoming suspended) or Bt12 Marcus triggers inheritables of my stack to delete Phascomon. If I am correct in believing you're referring to 13:40, all my effects resolve before Blocking can be declared thanks to the revisions of Counter Timing -meaning that yes Phasco is deleted before it can block.
@@greycs7394 I agree with the when attacking and when digivolving effects going first, I see nothing in the rule book that says on play goes before blocker timing: "Any when attacking effects or effects that activate when one of you digimon attacks are activated at this point. After all effects have been activated timer effect occurs." The after all effects have been activated are for the before mentioned when attacking or this digmon attacks effects (this would include any when digivolving effects as well.) This is, at least by the rules, not saying when ALL of your effects are activated because of the queue system. All effects can activate which then causes triggers that can occur which create a queue. Counter-timing is just faster than blocker timing which can cause issues with the old queue system. The way it has gone is: When attacking effects (when digivolving effects) supercede both counter and block timing, however, on play effects are not faster than blocker timing or counter timing. They still activate but are last in the queue of effects that happen. This is what causes the attack to miss because the effects resolve after blocker timing resolves because of: Declare Activate/Trigger Pending Resolve Resolve A blocker doesn't have to be alive to trigger blocker timing as long as an effect not faster than it destroys it. Now if you are saying your inherited digimon deleted it then that is fine, but it looks like you used the marcus to dp reduce the digimon which would have to occur during the resolve phase after a blocker is able to trigger/resolve changing the attack target and before the actual battle. This would still cause your marcus to delete the digimon but due to it's place in the queue, it would miss destroying it before the digimon is able to trigger and resolve blocker. I could be wrong, if you could kindly show me where it allows ALL of turn player effects to resolve first before counter-timing and blocker timing.
@@takun87 So, the biggest thing I have to say is that you seem to misunderstand when "On Play" would activate - It's immediate. In the "Comprehensive Rule Manual (12.08.23)" Found on the Official Digimon TCG website in the Rules page: Point 7-3-2-3 reads as following: "If the card has an [On Play] effect, it triggers after playing." The Trigger Window for "On Play" is immediate, this holds true for Tamers and Digimon. (This specific ruling is for tamers, but the ruling for digimon is the same) As for a Digimon having the same timing of "On Play": In this very video at 9:23 Mike Evolves into Fenrirloogamon and plays out a Bt14 Fangmon and 2 Bt8 BlackGatomon during an attack thanks to Bowmon and Soloogamon. Fangmon immediately triggers on play and allows him to do Fangmon's whole effect during the middle of the attack. I don't have any Blockers or the ability to Counter true, but if Mike was done with his "When Attacking" triggers he wouldn't have then been able to activate Alliance afterwards. But he does because "On Play" is immediate.
@@greycs7394 If the rules say it's immediate than I concede that issue. As for the example in the video, this occurs because there is no when attacking effects to activate so the effects go into the queue, and you can resolve them in the order you like. My original argument was never about turn player missing timing (unless you have a situation like BT4 Wargrey and BT3 Angewomon, and Dynasmon which can interrupt your own play) It was more about yes, your effects trigger but Trigger and resolving don't happen at the same time otherwise, just as in yugioh you would miss timing which largely doesn't happen in digimon. It was more about triggering and resolving. But since you are saying all on play effects are immediate, then this pretty much changes completely how I thought interactions played out in this game and Ace digimon are Far weaker than I assumed them to be.
Wait wait wait wait wait, if you play Eiji at end of turn it counts for Loogamon's inheritable and you can keep turn if the opponent is at 1? To go off of the last point, I've been playing Fenri and it really is more high rolley than people think. If you don't see Eiji or in most cases Looga you lose so much momentum and the meta is lightning fast right now.
Yup, a really strong play is evo into helloogarmon and give them say 2 mem, pull eiji out first gain 1 or 2 mem off loogamon inherits, use helloogarmon to pop something get back loogamon, tap analog youth for another mem and to hatch an egg and evo the loogamon you just got back
Hmmm interesting we will look into it. My understanding was that you can choose to sequence your effects in the order of your choosing as long as they are all carried out appropriately but will clarify!!
I know what you're saying, but it wouldn't have mattered. If I hadn't had the Agumon to delete for Fenrir's Unsuspend he wouldn't have been able to swing for the last security - That's true! However considering that there were still 2 BlackGatomons on board ready to swing, it didn't matter. My choices to end my previous turn were either to: A. Pass, giving Mike 3 Memory which definitely would let him go into Fenrir that turn and still win due to the BlackGatomons in trash. OR B. Choke with a Rookie and pray that Fenrir can't do exactly everything they need to win with slightly less memory.
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Future reference on play does not beat a blockers timing.
Blocking is When attacking speed so when marcus swings > Phas activates blocker successfully changing targets > greymon digivolves> Rizegreymon plays Marcus> Marcus taps> deletes Phas> Marcus attacking misses due to target being gone. Unlike Yugioh, there is no Replay in digimon so Marcus' attack does NOT go into security it just whiffs.
Same ruling as with Crusader/Lordknight; on plays do not negate blockers when it comes to using blocker timing since Blocker timing is Only slower than when attacking and Counter timing. Even though Turn player takes priority, they cannot respond with a slower card speed. So, LK playing Knightmon does not allow LK to Attack security EVEN though the blocker would be deleted since blocker timing still happened changing LK target to the blocker instead of player before the digimon was deleted.
I'm not sure which interaction you're referring to in particular, but unless you're out of the loop Blocker timing got changed with the advent of Counter Timing/Blast Evolving. All of my effects trigger before a security would be removed or Battle would occur, this includes: "When Attacking" "When Digivolving" & "On Play".
So which ever moment you're referring to probably has Bt13 Marcus dp reduce the blocker (from becoming suspended) or Bt12 Marcus triggers inheritables of my stack to delete Phascomon.
If I am correct in believing you're referring to 13:40, all my effects resolve before Blocking can be declared thanks to the revisions of Counter Timing -meaning that yes Phasco is deleted before it can block.
@@greycs7394 I agree with the when attacking and when digivolving effects going first, I see nothing in the rule book that says on play goes before blocker timing: "Any when attacking effects or effects that activate when one of you digimon attacks are activated at this point. After all effects have been activated timer effect occurs." The after all effects have been activated are for the before mentioned when attacking or this digmon attacks effects (this would include any when digivolving effects as well.) This is, at least by the rules, not saying when ALL of your effects are activated because of the queue system. All effects can activate which then causes triggers that can occur which create a queue. Counter-timing is just faster than blocker timing which can cause issues with the old queue system. The way it has gone is: When attacking effects (when digivolving effects) supercede both counter and block timing, however, on play effects are not faster than blocker timing or counter timing. They still activate but are last in the queue of effects that happen. This is what causes the attack to miss because the effects resolve after blocker timing resolves because of:
Declare
Activate/Trigger
Pending Resolve
Resolve
A blocker doesn't have to be alive to trigger blocker timing as long as an effect not faster than it destroys it. Now if you are saying your inherited digimon deleted it then that is fine, but it looks like you used the marcus to dp reduce the digimon which would have to occur during the resolve phase after a blocker is able to trigger/resolve changing the attack target and before the actual battle. This would still cause your marcus to delete the digimon but due to it's place in the queue, it would miss destroying it before the digimon is able to trigger and resolve blocker. I could be wrong, if you could kindly show me where it allows ALL of turn player effects to resolve first before counter-timing and blocker timing.
@@takun87 So, the biggest thing I have to say is that you seem to misunderstand when "On Play" would activate - It's immediate.
In the "Comprehensive Rule Manual (12.08.23)" Found on the Official Digimon TCG website in the Rules page: Point 7-3-2-3 reads as following: "If the card has an [On Play] effect, it triggers after playing."
The Trigger Window for "On Play" is immediate, this holds true for Tamers and Digimon. (This specific ruling is for tamers, but the ruling for digimon is the same)
As for a Digimon having the same timing of "On Play": In this very video at 9:23 Mike Evolves into Fenrirloogamon and plays out a Bt14 Fangmon and 2 Bt8 BlackGatomon during an attack thanks to Bowmon and Soloogamon. Fangmon immediately triggers on play and allows him to do Fangmon's whole effect during the middle of the attack. I don't have any Blockers or the ability to Counter true, but if Mike was done with his "When Attacking" triggers he wouldn't have then been able to activate Alliance afterwards. But he does because "On Play" is immediate.
@@greycs7394 If the rules say it's immediate than I concede that issue.
As for the example in the video, this occurs because there is no when attacking effects to activate so the effects go into the queue, and you can resolve them in the order you like. My original argument was never about turn player missing timing (unless you have a situation like BT4 Wargrey and BT3 Angewomon, and Dynasmon which can interrupt your own play) It was more about yes, your effects trigger but Trigger and resolving don't happen at the same time otherwise, just as in yugioh you would miss timing which largely doesn't happen in digimon. It was more about triggering and resolving. But since you are saying all on play effects are immediate, then this pretty much changes completely how I thought interactions played out in this game and Ace digimon are Far weaker than I assumed them to be.
Wait wait wait wait wait, if you play Eiji at end of turn it counts for Loogamon's inheritable and you can keep turn if the opponent is at 1? To go off of the last point, I've been playing Fenri and it really is more high rolley than people think. If you don't see Eiji or in most cases Looga you lose so much momentum and the meta is lightning fast right now.
Yup, a really strong play is evo into helloogarmon and give them say 2 mem, pull eiji out first gain 1 or 2 mem off loogamon inherits, use helloogarmon to pop something get back loogamon, tap analog youth for another mem and to hatch an egg and evo the loogamon you just got back
Yep - Eiji is technically SoC in trait and the memory effect does not specify it to strictly digimon its just any card with SoC
@@HyperColosseum never thought about it. Maybe I can start winning with this deck finally after watching these videos 😂
Still doubting that play , at my locals theyve argue that since u return turn before the effect, it cannot be activated (hellLooga)
Hmmm interesting we will look into it. My understanding was that you can choose to sequence your effects in the order of your choosing as long as they are all carried out appropriately but will clarify!!
Im confused how did the fang gain rush?
Also how did they gain security checks.
It didn't gain rush or checks, it was suspended for Alliance by fenrilooga.
@Remnant is correct! it was utilized as an alliance play
Jeremy if you see this please share you Shine deck profile >~
Sure:
4-Bt14 Koromon
4-Bt12 Agumon
4-Bt13 Agumon
2-Ex4 Agumon
3-Bt11 Biyomon (I'm considering replacing one of these with a Red Training)
2-St7 Geogreymon
4-Bt12 Geogreymon
3-Ex4 Geogreymon
1-Bt13 Geogreymon
3-Bt12 Rizegreymon
4-Bt13 Rizegreymon
1-Bt9 Rizegreymon X
3-Bt12 Shinegreymon
3-Bt13 Shinegreymon
2-Bt13 Shinegreymon Burst Mode
4-Bt12 Marcus Damon
4-Bt13 Marcus Damon
1-Bt9 Sunrise Buster
2-Bt8 Crimson Blaze
Shinegrey player shouldnt have played the last agumon to prevent fenri to unsuspend by deleting it...
I know what you're saying, but it wouldn't have mattered.
If I hadn't had the Agumon to delete for Fenrir's Unsuspend he wouldn't have been able to swing for the last security - That's true! However considering that there were still 2 BlackGatomons on board ready to swing, it didn't matter.
My choices to end my previous turn were either to:
A. Pass, giving Mike 3 Memory which definitely would let him go into Fenrir that turn and still win due to the BlackGatomons in trash.
OR B. Choke with a Rookie and pray that Fenrir can't do exactly everything they need to win with slightly less memory.